Hello!

Here are some similarities me and some Philippine friends found out about our languages (I'm Indonesian).
Some of the Philippine words are Cebuano, others are Tagalog.

I = Indonesian
P = Philippine

wind
I: angin
P : hangin

eye
mata

five
lima

lip(s)
I: bibir
P: bibig

nose
I: hidung (h often not pronounced)
P: ilung

nail
I: kuku
P: kuko (?)

child
anak

man, male
I: lelaki, laki-laki
P: lalaki

We actually discovered a lot more. I'll write them down as soon as I remember.

Salam

Fish:
ancient Cebuano = ikan
modern Melayu = ikan

Gunting
cebuano & tagalog = pair of scissors
bahasa melayu = to cut

Anak
cebuano & tagalog = child
melayu = child

Pontianak
cebuano & tagalog = tianak - child monster
melayu = lady monster

Sumpa
cebuano & tagalog = curse
melayu = oath

Putih
cebuano & tagalog = white
melayu = white

Otan
cebuano = vegetable
melayu = forest

Jalan
cebuano = dalan - a road or street
melayu = a walk

Fish:
ancient Cebuano = ikan
modern Melayu = ikan

Gunting
cebuano & tagalog = pair of scissors
bahasa melayu = to cut

Anak
cebuano & tagalog = child
melayu = child

Pontianak
cebuano & tagalog = tianak - child monster
melayu = lady monster

Sumpa
cebuano & tagalog = curse
melayu = oath

Putih
cebuano & tagalog = white
melayu = white

Otan
cebuano = vegetable
melayu = forest

Jalan
cebuano = dalan - a road or street
melayu = a walk
Thanks Mercato!

Gunting also means (a pair of) scissors in Indonesian.
To cut with a knife (pisau) is potong.

Sumpah also means swear.

Forest in Indonesian is hutan, yet as in many words, the H is often not pronounced.
Orangutan means literally forest-man because orang = person.

Jalan also means road or street.


Some other similarities:

coconut (tree)
I: nyiur
P: niog (?)

black
I: hitam (often pronounced 'itəm')
P: itum (?)

drink
I: minum
P: inom (?)


How do you say 'count' in Philippine? Is it similar to hitung or itung?

eat
I: makan
in my father's dialect it's 'humaan'
P: kumain

sleep
I: tidur
P: tulog

new
I: baru
P: bago

expensive
mahal

cheap
I: murah
P: mura

lake
I: danau
P: lanaw

kick
I: sepak (-k often pronounced as a glottal stop)
P: sipa

fire
I: api
P: apoy

sky
langit

house
Old Malay: balai. Still used today for certain kinds of houses.
P: balay

sole
I: telapak
P: talampakan, talapakan

count
I: bilangan
P: bilang

say, tell
I: bilang
P: pulong

return
balik

cheek
I: pipi
P: pisngi

bone
I: tulang
P: tul-an

tongue
I: lidah
P: dila


Have you noticed how D and L seem to be interchangeable in Indonesian and Philippine? Like nose = idung and ilong.

^^ there is a tribe near the common borders of Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. they call themselves Bisaya. They have a common name with 3 tribes in central Philippines. We are also Bisaya with 3 sub groups = Waray, Ylonggo and Cebuano... It would be interesting to know more about this tribe in Borneo which seems similar to us.

I'm running out of words for now :D

Harimau
Tagalog = halimaw - monster
Bahasa = monster

Pulau
Tagalog = Pulo - island
Bahasa = island

How do you say 'count' in Philippine? Is it similar to hitung or itung? Bueno, we use the word "Cuenta" = to count :D

^^ there is a tribe near the common borders of Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. they call themselves Bisaya. They have a common name with 3 tribes in central Philippines. We are also Bisaya with 3 sub groups = Waray, Ylonggo and Cebuano... It would be interesting to know more about this tribe in Borneo which seems similar to us.

I'm running out of words for now :D

Harimau
Tagalog = halimaw - monster
Bahasa = monster

Pulau
Tagalog = Pulo - island
Bahasa = island


I didn't know about the Bisaya on Kalimantan. Interesting.

Btw, bahasa means 'language'.
So in Indonesian/Malaysian:
Bahasa Inggris = English language
Bahasa Tagalog = Tagalog language
Bahasa Sebuano = Cebuano language
Bahasa Indonesia = Indonesian language
Bahasa Malaysia = Malaysian language
Bahasa Spanyol = Spanish language
etc.

Harimau means 'tiger'. A monster is monster in Indonesian. :)

'Island' is pulau, yet often pronounced like pulo.


Bueno, we use the word "Cuenta" = to count :D
You mean kuwenta? :D
You guys are so spanicized it's almost unbelievable. :cheers:

lip(s)
I: bibir
P: bibig



Actually, lips is called labi from Spanish labios. Bibig means mouth in Tagalog and Bah-bah or Bábá in Cebuano. :)

lip(s)
I: bibir
P: bibig
Could it also be the Portuguese influence? Hmmm,

drink
spanish = beber
portuguese = beber

live
spanish = vivir
portuguese = viver
:hi:

interesting, let's get in touch with our malay race, there is always a thread about Spanish background but never on this.
I think also cinta in indo and sinta in tagalog is the same. love

i also saw tolak or someting like that in a malaysian airplane bathroom
which i presume is push?
in pilipino it's tulak.

mangan or makan is also eat in ilucano and kapampangan.

pintu, door, pinto

kambing , goat is similar. :lol:

interesting, let's get in touch with our malay race, there is always a thread about Spanish background but never on this.
I think also cinta in indo and sinta in tagalog is the same. love

i also saw tolak or someting like that in a malaysian airplane bathroom
which i presume is push?
in pilipino it's tulak.

mangan or makan is also eat in ilucano and kapampangan.

pintu, door, pinto

kambing , goat is similar. :lol:
Thanks.

Tolak means 'to push' in some dialects. In standard Indonesian it means 'refuse', which is semantically related to 'push'

Mangan is Javanese for 'eat'. :)

new
Tagalog, Cebuano: bago
Ilokano: baro
Indonesian: baru

four
I: empat
Bahasa Manado: ampa
P, and in many Indonesian dialects: apat
Pangasinan: apatira
Malagasy (in Madagascar!): efatra


The numbers in Javanese are:
1 siji
2 loro
3 telu
4 papat
5 lima
6 enem
7 pitu
8 walu
9 sanga
10 sepuluh

They are somehow closer to Philippine languages than Standard Indonesian.

Actually, lips is called labi from Spanish labios. Bibig means mouth in Tagalog and Bah-bah or Bábá in Cebuano. :)
There's always a semantic drift between languages. I'm pretty sure that bibir and bibig have the same origins, and that bibir doesn't have anything to do with Portuguese or Spanish. :)

kambing , goat is similar. :lol:
Not only similar. It's identical. :)

Talk about animals, 'dog' is asu in Javanese.

^^ Ei, bro. I remember this at the Jakarta Airport long time ago..

Buka
tagalog & cebuano = to open
bahasa = gate

Bukaka
tagalog & cebuano = **** censored**** :lol: nah, it's wide open but with heavy connotations
bahasa = ??

*********

Let us investigate this very endearing Austronesian word = LIMA = 5 coz it has withstood time and can be found in many, many, many austronesian descendants like all filipino languages use lime, bahasa i think uses it, many indonesian languages use it, it is used in Hawaiian plus many polynesian languages... nothin much, Lima strikes a deep austronesian chord somewhere, no? :)

^^ Ei, bro. I remember this at the Jakarta Airport long time ago..

Buka
tagalog & cebuano = to open
bahasa = gate

Bukaka
tagalog & cebuano = **** censored**** :lol: nah, it's wide open but with heavy connotations
bahasa = ??

*********

Let us investigate this very endearing Austronesian word = LIMA = 5 coz it has withstood time and can be found in many, many, many austronesian descendants like all filipino languages use lime, bahasa i think uses it, many indonesian languages use it, it is used in Hawaiian plus many polynesian languages... nothin much, Lima strikes a deep austronesian chord somewhere, no? :)

In Indonesian, buka also means open.
Bahasa, as I mentioned before, means language.


Yeah. Lima and mata seem to have remained the same in most Austronesian languages. :)

interesting, let's get in touch with our malay race, there is always a thread about Spanish background but never on this.
I have to say that I got sick of our "worship" of everything European.
How basically all of the so called beauty products or operations aim to make us look (more) European.
And how the models, actors, celebs in Asia tend to look European.

I'm not saying that Europeans are not good, but we could at least stop misprizing our "Malayness", darkness (of complexion), shortness, wide nose, etc. as if it were something inferior.
Hell the Spanish didn't treat us that well, why should we continue adhering to the white-is-better-mentality?

Sorry for not being politically correct. I probably am even exaggerating, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Again, I don't think European is bad. My Spanish is not bad and I have friends from Spain. But we need more appreciation of who we are.

Now back to languages. Austronesian languages. :)

I'm not saying that Europeans are not good, but we could at least stop misprizing our "Malayness", darkness (of complexion), shortness, wide nose, etc. as if it were something inferior.
Hell the Spanish didn't treat us that well, why should we continue adhering to the white-is-better-mentality?

Sorry for not being politically correct. I probably am even exaggerating, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Again, I don't think European is bad. My Spanish is not bad and I have friends from Spain. But we need more appreciation of who we are.

Now back to languages. Austronesian languages. :) Point well taken, bro... howbeit I thought Indonesia was under the Portuguese and the Dutch but never under the Spanish... ;)

Now 'twas the Philippines which was under the Spanish... :)

Truth can be stranger than fiction these days. :colgate: ... ah yes... where were we? Austronesian, as a matter of fact... :)

Point well taken, bro... howbeit I thought Indonesia was under the Portuguese and the Dutch but never under the Spanish... ;)

Now 'twas the Philippines which was under the Spanish... :)

Truth can be stranger than fiction these days. :colgate: ... ah yes... where were we? Austronesian, as a matter of fact... :)
I know. I was just simplifying things. If I wanted to be correct, I would've had to say Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, French, Americans, depending on where you are. :)


Another word I remember with semantic drift.
I: bukit, meaning hill.
P: bukid, meaning mountain.

wood
I: kayu
P: kahoy

chicken, bird
In many Indonesian and Philippine dialects: manuk, manok

I have to say that I got sick of our "worship" of everything European.
How basically all of the so called beauty products or operations aim to make us look (more) European.
And how the models, actors, celebs in Asia tend to look European.

I'm not saying that Europeans are not good, but we could at least stop misprizing our "Malayness", darkness (of complexion), shortness, wide nose, etc. as if it were something inferior.
Hell the Spanish didn't treat us that well, why should we continue adhering to the white-is-better-mentality?

Sorry for not being politically correct. I probably am even exaggerating, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Again, I don't think European is bad. My Spanish is not bad and I have friends from Spain. But we need more appreciation of who we are.

Now back to languages. Austronesian languages. :)

Yeah, I'm glad for the indonesian people for if it weren't for them the malay race might go extinct similar to the fate of other Austronesian peoples. If not for Indonesia the whole SE asia will be just an extension of CHina. nothing wrong with CHinese but it's better with variety and not one race overwhelming the others. Thailand , malaysia and singapore already gone that route.
ok sorry if it's ot . back to language.

chicken, bird
In many Indonesian and Philippine dialects: manuk, manok

wild pig
I = babirusa - deer pig
tagalog = baboy ramo/ damo
cebuano = baboy ihas

deer
I = usa
cebuano & tagalog = usa

pig
I = ?
filipino = baboy

monkey
cebuano & tagalog = unggoy
I = ?

cow
filipino = baka
I = ?

cat
cebuano = iring
tagalog = pusa
I = ?

bird
cebuano = langgam
tagalog = ibon
I = ?

snake
tagalog = ahas
cebuano = bitin
I = ?
:)

^^ Kera for monkey, for Malay ~ kera din ata.

Yeah, I'm glad for the indonesian people for if it weren't for them the malay race might go extinct similar to the fate of other Austronesian peoples. If not for Indonesia the whole SE asia will be just an extension of CHina. nothing wrong with CHinese but it's better with variety and not one race overwhelming the others. Thailand , malaysia and singapore already gone that route.
ok sorry if it's ot . back to language.
It turns out that a part of indonesia is actually inhabited by mainstream filipinos which is north sulawesi.....

Fish:
ancient Cebuano = ikan
modern Melayu = ikan

Gunting
cebuano & tagalog = pair of scissors
bahasa melayu = to cut

Anak
cebuano & tagalog = child
melayu = child

Pontianak
cebuano & tagalog = tianak - child monster
melayu = lady monster

Sumpa
cebuano & tagalog = curse
melayu = oath

Putih
cebuano & tagalog = white
melayu = white

Otan
cebuano = vegetable
melayu = forest

Jalan
cebuano = dalan - a road or street
melayu = a walk

Sumpa can also mean Oath in Tagalog

woo hoo! just found this old box of Panadol for my stuffy nose! but the words are in Melayu

SAKIT KEPALA DEMAM KESAKITAN AKIBAT SELESEMA DAN DEMAM SELESEMA.
Sukatan : dewasa
any translations please? thanks thanks

lemme guess

Sakit = pain
kesakitan = illness
akibat = partner? helper? to aid/ to help?
Sukatan = measure

:banana:

^^ Something about "head hurts from the fever caused by the flu" (my rough translation, not really sure if it's correct).

^^ :) thanks mod! yea, it would be logical.

just found this:

Me, I
Indonesian: saya, aku
Javanese: aku, Kula, DALEM
Balinese: icang, Titiang
Sundanese: urang, kuring, Abdi
Madurese: sengkok, Kaule, ABDINA
Sawu: ya
Toraja: aku
Acehnese: kèe, ulôn, ulôntuwan
Tetun: ha'u
Tagalog: ako
Hiligaynon: ako
Maori: au, ahau
Fijian: au/noqu
Hawaiian: a'u
Malagasy: izaho/ahy
Rapanui: au/kooku

You
Indonesian: kamu, engkau, Anda
Javanese: kowe, Panjenengan,
Balinese: cai, nyai, Ida, Dane, Iratu
Sundanese: maneh, Anjeuna (Anjeun)
Madurese: be'na, Sampiyan, Panjenengan (?)
Sawu: mu
Toraja: ((iko)), kamu
Acehnese: kah, gata, droeneuh
Tetun: o, ITA
Tagalog: ikaw
Hiligaynon: ikaw
Maori: koe
Fijian: iko/nomu
Hawaiian: 'oe
Malagasy: ianao/anao
Rapanui: koe/toau

:banana:

Sun
Indonesian: matahari (mentari) (mata = eye, hari = day)
Javanese: srengenge, Surya
Balinese: matanai, Surya
Sundanese: panonpoe
Madurese: are
Sawu: mada loto
Toraja: allo
Acehnese: mata uroe
Tetun: loro
Tagalog: araw
Hiligaynon: adlaw
Maori: ra~
Fijian: siga (matanisiga, matanivanua)
Hawaiian: la
Malagasy: masoandro (maso = eye, andro = day)
Rapanui: ra'a

Moon
Indonesian: bulan
Javanese: rembulan, Wulan
Balinese: bulan, Sasih
Sundanese: bulan, Sasih
Madurese: bulen
Sawu: waru
Toraja: bulan
Acehnese: buleuen
Tetun: fulan
Tagalog: buwan
Hiligaynon: bulan
Maori: marama
Fijian: vula
Hawaiian: mahina
Malagasy: volana
Rapanui: mahina

Star
Indonesian: bintang
Javanese: lintang
Balinese: bintang
Sundanese: bentang
Madurese: bintang
Sawu: moto
Toraja: bintoen
Acehnese: bintang
Tetun: fitun
Tagalog: tala
Hiligaynon: bitu-on
Maori: whetu~
Fijian: kalo-kalo
Hawaiian: hoku
Malagasy: kintana
Rapanui: hetu'u

Person (M\F)
Indonesian: orang
Javanese: wong, Tiyang
Balinese: jlema-jatma, Anak
Sundanese: jalma, jelema
Madurese: oreng
Sawu: dau
Toraja: tau
Acehnese: ureueng
Tetun: ema
Tagalog: tao
Hiligaynon: tawo
Maori: tangata, koroke~
Fijian: tamata
Hawaiian: kanaka, mea, kama
Malagasy: olona
Rapanui: tangata\vi'e

Thanks.

The numbers in Javanese are:
1 siji
2 loro
3 telu
4 papat
5 lima
6 enem
7 pitu
8 walu
9 sanga
10 sepuluh


^^
Bicol language:
1 saro
2 duwa
3 tulo
4 apat
5 lima
6 anum
7 pitu
8 walu
9 syam
10 sampulo

:D

"hundred"

Bahasa Indonesia - seratus
Bikol - gatus

;42304572']"hundred"

Bahasa Indonesia - seratus
Bikol - gatus

cebuano. gatus

^^
Bicol language:
1 saro
2 duwa
3 tulo
4 apat
5 lima
6 anum
7 pitu
8 walu
9 syam
10 sampulo

:D

cebuano. usa duha tulo upat lima unum pito walu siyam pulo

Indonesian: nasi (rice)
Kapampangan: nasi

Indonesian: tulang (bone)
Ilocano: tulang

Bahasa Jawa: lindu (earthquake)
Filipino: lindol

wild pig
I = babirusa - deer pig
tagalog = baboy ramo/ damo
cebuano = baboy ihas

deer
I = rusa
cebuano & tagalog = usa

pig
I = babi
filipino = baboy

monkey
cebuano & tagalog = unggoy
I = kera, monyet

cow
filipino = baka
I = sapi

Baka seems to be a loanword from Spanish vaca no?

cat
cebuano = iring
tagalog = pusa
I = kucing (c is always pronounced like ch in much)

bird
cebuano = langgam
tagalog = ibon
I = burung

snake
tagalog = ahas
cebuano = bitin
I = ular

:)


animal
I: binatang, hewan, haiwan

It turns out that a part of indonesia is actually inhabited by mainstream filipinos which is north sulawesi.....
I didn't know that. My parents are from North Sulawesi (Manado, Minahasa).

Last Sunday I went to a Philippine church with a friend of mine and it's amazing how familiar it felt.
Actually that was the reason why I started this thread. We discovered words that are similar or the same.

woo hoo! just found this old box of Panadol for my stuffy nose! but the words are in Melayu

SAKIT KEPALA DEMAM KESAKITAN AKIBAT SELESEMA DAN DEMAM SELESEMA.
Sukatan : dewasa
any translations please? thanks thanks

lemme guess

Sakit = pain
kesakitan = illness
akibat = partner? helper? to aid/ to help?
Sukatan = measure

:banana:
You're right about sakit and kesakitan.

akibat = effect (caused by something)
kepala = head, loanword from Sanskrit, related to Greek or Latin cephalos
demam = fever
dewasa = adult

I have to admit that I don't know or forgot the word sukatan. :(

^^ :) thanks mod! yea, it would be logical.

just found this:

Me, I
Indonesian: saya, aku
Javanese: aku, Kula, DALEM
Balinese: icang, Titiang
Sundanese: urang, kuring, Abdi
Madurese: sengkok, Kaule, ABDINA
Sawu: ya
Toraja: aku
Acehnese: kèe, ulôn, ulôntuwan
Tetun: ha'u
Tagalog: ako
Hiligaynon: ako
Maori: au, ahau
Fijian: au/noqu
Hawaiian: a'u
Malagasy: izaho/ahy
Rapanui: au/kooku

You
Indonesian: kamu, engkau, Anda
Javanese: kowe, Panjenengan,
Balinese: cai, nyai, Ida, Dane, Iratu
Sundanese: maneh, Anjeuna (Anjeun)
Madurese: be'na, Sampiyan, Panjenengan (?)
Sawu: mu
Toraja: ((iko)), kamu
Acehnese: kah, gata, droeneuh
Tetun: o, ITA
Tagalog: ikaw
Hiligaynon: ikaw
Maori: koe
Fijian: iko/nomu
Hawaiian: 'oe
Malagasy: ianao/anao
Rapanui: koe/toau

:banana:

In Jakarta, among peers we also say gua, gue for aku or saya.
Gua is a loanword from Hokkien.

In my father's dialect we say siaho or siahu. Basically si+aho/ahu.
In his dialect H is an allophone to K.
Compare humaan and kumain.


As for (singular) 'you', there's a lot of way of saying it in Indonesian:
kau
engkau
dikau
kamu (originally plural, just as English 'you')
lo, lu, elo, elu (loanword from Hokkien)
Anda (formal)

Sun
Indonesian: matahari (mentari) (mata = eye, hari = day)
Javanese: srengenge, Surya
Balinese: matanai, Surya
Malagasy: masoandro (maso = eye, andro = day)

Person (M\F)
Indonesian: orang
Javanese: wong, Tiyang
Balinese: jlema-jatma, Anak
Sundanese: jalma, jelema
Madurese: oreng
Sawu: dau
Toraja: tau
Acehnese: ureueng
Tetun: ema
Tagalog: tao
Hiligaynon: tawo
Maori: tangata, koroke~
Fijian: tamata
Hawaiian: kanaka, mea, kama
Malagasy: olona
Rapanui: tangata\vi'e
Surya is also standard Indonesian, of a rather higher register.

I find it interesting how in Madagascar they also say "day's eye" for 'sun'. :)


In my father's dialect, 'person' is tou.

Another characteristic of Austronesian languages is genderlessness.
We have the same word for he and she.

;42304572']"hundred"

Bahasa Indonesia - seratus
Bikol - gatus

cebuano. gatus

Se- in seratus is actually an abbrevation of 'one'.
So:
100 = se-ratus
200 = dua-ratus
300 = tiga-ratus
400 = empat-ratus
etc.

'Thousand' is -ribu

'Million' is -juta


Indonesian: nasi (rice)
Kapampangan: nasi

Indonesian: tulang (bone)
Ilocano: tulang

Bahasa Jawa: lindu (earthquake)
Filipino: lindol
Thanks!

Nasi is the edible rice. On the field it's padi, and uncooked rice is beras. :)

cow
filipino = baka
I = sapi

Baka seems to be a loanword from Spanish vaca no?

cat
cebuano = iring
tagalog = pusa
I = kucing (c is always pronounced like ch in much)



Yes, baka comes from the Spanish word vaca. :) Also, Tagalog has kuting which means little cat or miming in Cebuano too. That is what I called my little brother and even now we call him ming. :lol:

Bueno, we use the word "Cuenta" = to count :D


Cebuano term is ihap

Yes, baka comes from the Spanish word vaca. :) Also, Tagalog has kuting which means little cat or miming in Cebuano too. That is what I called my little brother and even now we call him ming. :lol:
Thanks!
Kuting is probably to be related to kucing.

This somehow reminded me of my friend who learned Indonesian. He said that so many words are so similar to each other. Basic words usually have two syllables. There's a typical pattern of vowels and consonants. And I guess it's how many Austronesian languages work or sound like.

For example in Indonesian we have:

kering
karung
koréng
karang
kurung
kerang
arung
erang
iring
piring
pirang
perang
serang
saring
sarung
burung
berang
barang
etc.

Sun
dro (maso = eye, andro = day)
Rapanui: ra'a

Moon

a

Star
Indonesian: bintang
Javanese: lintang
Balinese: bintang
Sundanese: bentang
Madurese: bintang
Sawu: moto
Toraja: bintoen
Acehnese: bintang
Tetun: fitun
Tagalog: tala
Hiligaynon: bitu-on
Maori: whetu~
Fijian: kalo-kalo
Hawaiian: hoku
Malagasy: kintana
Rapanui: hetu'u


Rapanui: tangata\vi'e
star is also bituin in tagalog.

star is also bituin in tagalog.

Kapag narinig yan ng mga katropa ni Joey the lion heart ng Eat Bulagaan, malamang sabihin ito na "Bedouin".
Noong nakaraang 2 linggo binanggit sa show ang kabiserang Gangtok. :lol:

Sa Aklan(Akean) kapag sinabing pispis ito ay ibon

koring ay pusa
ayam ay aso
langgam(eanggam) ay daga
sapat halimaw


ea "la" kung banggitin

ro baboy ga eaogad eaogad sa ana nga koral

interesting thread...just would like to repost this coz i think this belongs here

Bisaya (Sarawak) Rosary Prayers
This language is also known as Bisayah, Bisaya Bukit, Visayak, Bekiau, and Lorang Bukit.
This language is spoken by 7,000 people in the region southeast of Marudi, 5th Division in Malaysia. It is also spoken in Brunei and Indonesia.

Amahan namu / Our Father

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.

Maghimaya ka Malia / Hail Mary / Ave Maria

Maghimaya ka Malia (Maria) nga napono ka sa
galasiya (grasiya) ang aton Gino Diyosa adda saimo.
Dayago ka sa ku pa sa mangababai ngatanan
ug dayago man ang bunga sa tiyan mosi Hesus.

Santa Malia (Maria),
inahan ka sa Diyosa
magampo ka tango sa anomanga makasasala,
niyan ug sa igkamatai namo.
Amen.

Another version of
Maghimaya ca Maria / Hail Mary / Ave Maria
Maghimaya ca Maria nga pono ca sin gracia, an Guinoo nga Dios aada sa imo. Guindadayao ca labi sa mga babaye ngatanan; ngan guindadayao man an imo Anac nga si Jesus.

Santa Maria, Iroy sa Dios ig-ampo mo cami mga macasasala, niyan ngan sa horas sa amon igcamatay. Amen Jesus.

In my father's dialect, 'person' is [COLOR="blue"]tou.

Another characteristic of Austronesian languages is genderlessness.
We have the same word for he and she.

A person is "tao" in Tagalog or "tawo" in Cebuano. How close!


Nasi is the edible rice. On the field it's padi, and uncooked rice is beras. :)

The uncooked rice is "bigas" in Tagalog...it's close also to "beras". hehehe

more:

baboy (pig) = babi (Indonesian)
dila (toungue) = lidah (Indonesian)
Si (he or she) like Si bunso = Si (he or she) like Si bungso

interesting thread...just would like to repost this coz i think this belongs here

Bisaya (Sarawak) Rosary Prayers
This language is also known as Bisayah, Bisaya Bukit, Visayak, Bekiau, and Lorang Bukit.
This language is spoken by 7,000 people in the region southeast of Marudi, 5th Division in Malaysia. It is also spoken in Brunei and Indonesia.

Amahan namu / Our Father

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.
Thanks!

How is c read there? Like a k or ch?
I noticed that 'we' is written as cami (in many Austronesian languages it's kami)

Other words I recognized are langit and sala.

A person is "tao" in Tagalog or "tawo" in Cebuano. How close!



The uncooked rice is "bigas" in Tagalog...it's close also to "beras". hehehe

more:

baboy (pig) = babi (Indonesian)
dila (toungue) = lidah (Indonesian)
Si (he or she) like Si bunso = Si (he or she) like Si bungso
Yeah.

The word for he/she (in the case of Indonesian, also him/her/his) is dia. Sounds similar to siya.

Cebuano term is ihap sus ang akong amigo imo jud kong guisanta da. :lol: Cuenta na lang gud parejas sa amo sa mandaue.

:lol:
One
Indonesian: satu
Javanese: siji, Setunggal
Balinese: besik, Asiki
Sundanese: hiji, eka
Madurese: settong, tonggal
Sawu: ahi
Toraja: misa
Acehnese: sa
Tetun: ida
Tagalog: isa
Hiligaynon: isa
Maori: tahi, kotahi
Fijian: dua
Hawaiian: kahi
Malagasy: isa
Rapanui: tahi


Two
Indonesian: dua
Javanese: loro, Kalih
Balinese: dua, Kalih
Sundanese: duwe
Madurese: dua
Sawu: due
Toraja: dua
Acehnese: duwa
Tetun: rua
Tagalog: dalawa
Hiligaynon: duha
Maori: rua
Fijian: rua
Hawaiian: lua
Malagasy: roa
Rapanui: rua

Three
Indonesian: tiga
Javanese: telu, Tiga
Balinese: telu, Tiga
Sundanese: tilu
Madurese: tello
Sawu: tallu
Toraja: tallu
Acehnese: lhèe
Tetun: tolu
Tagalog: tatlo
Hiligaynon: tatlo
Maori: toru
Fijian: tolu
Hawaiian: kolu
Malagasy: telo
Rapanui: toru

Four
Indonesian: empat
Javanese: papat, Sekawan
Balinese: papat, Catur
Sundanese: opat
Madurese: empa
Sawu: apa
Toraja: a'pa'
Acehnese: peuet
Tetun: haot
Tagalog: apat
Hiligaynon: apat
Maori: wha
Fijian: va
Hawaiian: ha
Malagasy: efatra
Rapanui: ha

Five
Indonesian: lima
Javanese: lima, Gangsal
Balinese: lima, Panca
Sundanese: lima
Madurese: lema'
Sawu: lami
Toraja: lima
Acehnese: limong
Tetun: lima
Tagalog: lima
Hiligaynon: lima
Maori: rima
Fijian: lima
Hawaiian: lima
Malagasy: dimy
Rapanui: rima

Six
Indonesian: enam
Javanese: nem
Balinese: nem, nemnem, sad
Sundanese: genep
Madurese: enem
Sawu: anna
Toraja: annan
Acehnese: nam
Tetun: neen
Tagalog: anim
Hiligaynon: anum
Maori: ono
Fijian: ono
Hawaiian: ono
Malagasy: enina
Rapanui: ono

Seven
Indonesian: tujuh
Javanese: pitu
Balinese: pepitu, sapta
Sundanese:tujuh
Madurese: petto'
Sawu: pitu
Toraja: pitu
Acehnese: tujôh
Tetun: hitu
Tagalog: pito
Hiligaynon: pito
Maori: whitu
Fijian: vitu
Hawaiian: hiku
Malagasy: fito
Rapanui: hita

Eight
Indonesian: delapan
Javanese: wolu
Balinese: aktus, Astha
Sundanese:dalapan
Madurese: bellu'
Sawu: aru
Toraja: karura
Acehnese: lapan
Tetun: ualu
Tagalog: walo
Hiligaynon: walo
Maori: waru
Fijian: walu
Hawaiian: walu
Malagasy: valo
Rapanui: vau

Nine
Indonesian: sembilan
Javanese: sanga
Balinese: sia, asia, Sanga
Sundanese: salapan
Madurese: sanga'
Sawu: heo
Toraja: kasera
Acehnese: sikureueng
Tetun: sia
Tagalog: siyam
Hiligaynon: siyam
Maori: iwa
Fijian: ciwa
Hawaiian: iwa
Malagasy: sivy
Rapanui: iva

Ten
Indonesian: sepuluh
Javanese: sepuluh, Sedasa
Balinese: dasa, adasa
Sundanese: sapuluh
Madurese: sapolo
Sawu: henguru
Toraja: sang pulo
Acehnese: siplôh
Tetun: sanulu
Tagalog: sampu
Hiligaynon: pulo
Maori: tekau
Fijian: tini
Hawaiian: 'umi
Malagasy: folo
Rapanui: angahuru

Eleven
Indonesian: sebelas
Javanese: sewelas
Balinese: solas
Sundanese: sabeulas, sawelas
Madurese: sabelles
Sawu: henguru ahi
Toraja: sang pulo misa
Acehnese: siblah
Tetun: sanulu resin ida
Tagalog: labing isa
Hiligaynon: napulo kag isa
Maori: tekau ma tahi
Fijian: tini ka dua
Hawaiian: 'umi kumakahi
Malagasy: iray ambin'ny folo
Rapanui: ?

Twelve
Indonesian: duabelas
Javanese: rolas, Kalih Welas
Balinese: roras
Sundanese: dua belas
Madurese: du bellas
Sawu: henguru due
Toraja: sang pulo dua
Acehnese: duwa blah
Tetun: sanulu resin rua
Tagalog: labing delawa
Hiligaynon: napulo kag duha
Maori: tekau ma rua?
Fijian: tini ka rua
Hawaiian: 'umi kumalua
Malagasy: roa ambin'ny folo
Rapanui: ?

Twenty
Indonesian: dua puluh
Javanese: rong puluh, Kalih Dasa
Balinese: duang dasa
Sundanese: dua puluh
Madurese: dupolo
Sawu: due nguru
Toraja: duang pulo
Acehnese: duwa plôh
Tetun: ruanulu
Tagalog: dalawampu
Hiligaynon: duha ka pulo
Maori: rua tekau
Fijian: rua sagavulu
Hawaiian: iwakalua
Malagasy: roapolo
Rapanui: ?

One Hundred
Indonesian: seratus
Javanese: satus,
Balinese: satus
Sundanese: saratus
Madurese: saratos
Sawu: hengahu
Toraja: saratu'
Acehnese: sireutôh
Tetun: atus ida
Tagalog: isang daan
Hiligaynon: gatus (isa ka gatus)
Maori: rau, kotahi rau
Fijian: dua na drau
Hawaiian: hanele
Malagasy: zato
Rapanui: hanere

One Thousand
Indonesian: seribu
Javanese: sewu
Balinese: siu
Sundanese: sarebu
Madurese: saebu
Sawu: hetapa
Toraja: sang sa'bu
Acehnese: siribèe
Tetun: rihun ida
Tagalog: isang libo
Hiligaynon: libo (isa ka libo)
Maori: kotahi mano
Fijian: dua no udolu
Hawaiian: kaukani
Malagasy: arivo
Rapanui: piere

^^ there is a tribe near the common borders of Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia. they call themselves Bisaya. They have a common name with 3 tribes in central Philippines. We are also Bisaya with 3 sub groups = Waray, Ylonggo and Cebuano... It would be interesting to know more about this tribe in Borneo which seems similar to us.

I'm running out of words for now :D

Harimau
Tagalog = halimaw - monster
Bahasa = monster

Pulau
Tagalog = Pulo - island
Bahasa = island

Bueno, we use the word "Cuenta" = to count :D


Bilang is the Tagalog word for count.

Cuenta is Spanish word

dua is also two in elukano. it seems bahasa just got chopped up and dispersed in different Philippine languag.e
elukano one of the many dialects of philippine language.
maysa, dua, talo ,upat, lima unem, that's all i know. :lol: oh yeah ten is also sangapulo

Bilang is the Tagalog word for count.

Cuenta is Spanish wordkayo naman... :D


.
.
.


Island
Indonesian: pulau
Javanese: pulo
Balinese: nusa, pulau
Sundanese: pulau, nusa
Madurese: polo, daret
Sawu: rai
Toraja: (no word apparently exists for island)
Acehnese: pulo
Tetun: nusa, illa
Tagalog: pulo~, isla
Hiligaynon: polo, isla
Maori: motu
Fijian: yanu-yanu
Hawaiian: moku, mokupuni, moku 'aina
Malagasy: nosy
Rapanui: motu


Sea
Indonesian: laut, lautan, samudra
Javanese: segara
Balinese: pasih, Segara
Sundanese: laut, sagara
Madurese: tasek, sagare
Sawu: lau
Toraja: tasik
Acehnese: laôt
Tetun: tasi
Tagalog: dagat
Hiligaynon: dagat
Maori: moana
Fijian: wai tui (literally "king water")
Hawaiian: kai, moana
Malagasy: ranomasina (literally "salty water"?)
Rapanui: vai kava (literally "salty water")

Water
Indonesian: air
Javanese: banyu, Toya
Balinese: yeh, Tirta, Toya
Sundanese: cai
Madurese: aing
Sawu: ai (the same word is used for fire and water!)
Toraja: uai
Acehnese: ie
Tetun: bee
Tagalog: tubig
Hiligaynon: tubig
Maori: wai
Fijian: wai
Hawaiian: wai
Malagasy: rano
Rapanui: vai

Fish
Indonesian: ikan
Javanese: iwak
Balinese: be, Mina, Ulam
Sundanese: lauk, ikan
Madurese: juko'
Sawu: nadu'u
Toraja: bale
Acehnese: eungkôt
Tetun: ikan
Tagalog: isda
Hiligaynon: isda
Maori: ika
Fijian: ika
Hawaiian: i'a
Malagasy: tsondro
Rapanui: ika


Snake
Indonesian: ular
Javanese: ula
Balinese: lelipi, Ula
Sundanese: oray
Madurese: olar
Sawu: doboho
Toraja: ula'
Acehnese: uleue
Tetun: samea
Tagalog: ahas
Hiligaynon: man-ug, bitin
Maori: neke (not indigenous, an alliteration)
Fijian: gata
Hawaiian: ---
Malagasy: bibilava, menarana
Rapanui: ?


Bird
Indonesian: burung
Javanese: manuk, Peksi
Balinese: kedis, Peksi
Sundanese: manuk
Madurese: mano
Sawu: dowila
Toraja: dassi
Acehnese: cicèm
Tetun: manu, fuik
Tagalog: ibon
Hiligaynon: pispis
Maori: manu
Fijian: manu-manu vuka
Hawaiian: manu
Malagasy: vorona
Rapanui: manu

Dog
Indonesian: anjing
Javanese: asu, Segawon
Balinese: cicing, Asu
Sundanese: anjing
Madurese: pate'
Sawu: ngaka
Toraja: asu
Acehnese:
Tetun:
Tagalog: asu
Hiligaynon:
Maori: kuri~
Fijian: koli
Hawaiian: 'ilio
Malagasy: alika
Rapanui: 'uri

Flower
Indonesian: bunga
Javanese: kembang, Sekar
Balinese: bunga, Sekar
Sundanese: kembang, kusuma
Madurese: kembang, Sekar
Sawu: bunga
Toraja: bunga
Acehnese: bungong
Tetun: ai funan
Tagalog: bulaklak
Hiligaynon: bulak
Maori: pua
Fijian: senikau
Hawaiian: pua
Malagasy: vonikazo
Rapanui: tiare

Fruit
Indonesian: buah
Javanese: woh
Balinese: buah, Woh
Sundanese: buah
Madurese: buwe
Sawu: wue
Toraja:
Acehnese: boh
Tetun: ai funan
Tagalog: prutas [Spanish], bungang-kahoy
Hiligaynon: prutas, bunga
Maori: hua
Fijian: vuanikau ("kau"= "tree")
Hawaiian: hua
Malagasy: voankazo
Rapanui:


Coconut
Indonesian: kelapa
Javanese: krambil, klapa
Balinese: nyuh, Kelapa
Sundanese: kalapa
Madurese: nyior
Sawu: nyiu
Toraja: kaluku
Acehnese: u
Tetun: nuu
Tagalog: buko
Hiligaynon: niyog, lubi, buko, makapuno
Maori: kokonaiti, kokonata (not indigenous, an alliteration)
Fijian: niu
Hawaiian: niu
Malagasy: coco
Rapanui:

Banana
Indonesian: pisang
Javanese: gedhang, Pisang
Balinese: biu, Pisang
Sundanese: cau
Madurese: geddhang
Sawu: womu'u
Toraja: punti
Acehnese: pisang
Tetun: hudi
Tagalog: saging
Hiligaynon: saging
Maori: maika
Fijian: jaina
Hawaiian: mai'a
Malagasy: akondro
Rapanui: maika

Fire
Indonesian: api
Javanese: geni, Latu
Balinese: api, Geni
Sundanese: seuneu
Madurese: apoy
Sawu: ai (the same word is used for fire and water!)
Toraja: api
Acehnese: apuy
Tetun: ahi
Tagalog: apoy
Hiligaynon: kalayo
Maori: ahi
Fijian: buka
Hawaiian: ahi
Malagasy: afo
Rapanui: ahi

Mountain
Indonesian: gunung
Javanese: giri, gunung
Balinese: gunung, giri
Sundanese: gunung
Madurese: gunong
Sawu: lede
Toraja: buntu
Acehnese: glè
Tetun: foho
Tagalog: bundok
Hiligaynon: bukid
Maori: maunga
Fijian: ulunivanua
Hawaiian: mauna
Malagasy: vohitra
Rapanui: maunga

Bhinneka Tunggal Ika

Bilang is the Tagalog word for count.

Cuenta is Spanish word
In Indonesian, bilangan = number.
Like the fourth book in the Bible (Old Testament), before Deuteronomy and after Leviticus, is called Bilangan in Indonesian.

dua is also two in elukano. it seems bahasa just got chopped up and dispersed in different Philippine languag.e
elukano one of the many dialects of philippine language.
maysa, dua, talo ,upat, lima unem, that's all i know. :lol: oh yeah ten is also sangapulo
Thanks.
As I said, bahasa = language.
It has really become a shibboleth to recognize a non-native. A native Indonesian would never call the Indonesian language bahasa. For the above mentioned reason, we always say Bahasa Indonesia, even though it's four syllables longer.
The same goes for other languages.
English = Bahasa Inggris
Tagalog = Bahasa Tagalog
Cebuano = Bahasa Sebuano
Spanish = Bahasa Spanyol
Chinese = Bahasa Cina
etc.

... the language is very much similar to cebuano, more of this pls.

interesting thread...just would like to repost this coz i think this belongs here

Bisaya (Sarawak) Rosary Prayers
This language is also known as Bisayah, Bisaya Bukit, Visayak, Bekiau, and Lorang Bukit.
This language is spoken by 7,000 people in the region southeast of Marudi, 5th Division in Malaysia. It is also spoken in Brunei and Indonesia.

Amahan namu / Our Father

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.

Maghimaya ka Malia / Hail Mary / Ave Maria

Maghimaya ka Malia (Maria) nga napono ka sa
galasiya (grasiya) ang aton Gino Diyosa adda saimo.
Dayago ka sa ku pa sa mangababai ngatanan
ug dayago man ang bunga sa tiyan mosi Hesus.

Santa Malia (Maria),
inahan ka sa Diyosa
magampo ka tango sa anomanga makasasala,
niyan ug sa igkamatai namo.
Amen.

Another version of
Maghimaya ca Maria / Hail Mary / Ave Maria
Maghimaya ca Maria nga pono ca sin gracia, an Guinoo nga Dios aada sa imo. Guindadayao ca labi sa mga babaye ngatanan; ngan guindadayao man an imo Anac nga si Jesus.

Santa Maria, Iroy sa Dios ig-ampo mo cami mga macasasala, niyan ngan sa horas sa amon igcamatay. Amen Jesus.

... the language is very much similar to cebuano, more of this pls. Coz I bet it is... anyhow, I think some European mistook it to mean the Bisaya of Borneo when it seems to be archaic Cebuano circa the late 1800s. But the alibata and the orthography are very very interesting. Now this is another austronesian tool - the alibata. :banana:

Sprechen sie deutsche? Ich spreche nicht ser gut deutsche... hehehe
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/pater/JPN-bisaya.html

Is there a German speaker amongst us? :?
Take note of the site, it seems to be of German Catholic origin. All translations are in German, the flags are of Malaysia, Brunei, Indonesia and Sarawak, (non-Philippine??) :dunno:. The Alibata could be a common alphabet :dunno: across SE Asia but what I cannot figure out is the kind of Bisaya used here. Usahay maorag Cebuano usahay dili maorag Waray. http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/bisaya.jpg

Source: Karl Faulmann, "Illustrirte Geschichte der Schrift", Wien 1880
"Illustrated History of Writing", Vienna 1880.
Contributed by Wolfgang Kuhl - E-mail WKuhl44238@aol.com


Another version

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.

Contributed by Andrea De Vecchi - E-mail Andrea_De_Vecchi@rcm.inet.it

Hail Mary!
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/bisaya404.jpg
Source: "AVE MARIA in 404 lingue"
Ordine Equestro del San Sepolcro di Gerusalemme, Milano (1931).
Contributed by David G. Landsnes, MD - E-mail dgwlmd@superlink.net
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/bisaya-a2.jpg
Maghimaya ka Malia (Maria) nga napono ka sa
galasiya (grasiya) ang aton Gino diyosa adda saimo.
Dayago ka sa ku pa sa mangababai ngatanan
ug dayago man ang bunga sa tiyan mosi Hesus.

Sanata Malia (Maria),
inahan sa Diyosa
magampo ka tango sa anomanga makasasala,
niyan ug sa igkamatai namo.
Amen.

Source: "AVE MARIA in 404 lingue"
Ordine Equestro del San Sepolcro di Gerusalemme, Milano (1931).
Transcription text provided by Paul Morrow, Winnipeg, Canada
Contributed by Wolfgang Kuhl E-mail WKuhl44238@aol.com

:)

I have to say that I got sick of our "worship" of everything European.
How basically all of the so called beauty products or operations aim to make us look (more) European.
And how the models, actors, celebs in Asia tend to look European.

I'm not saying that Europeans are not good, but we could at least stop misprizing our "Malayness", darkness (of complexion), shortness, wide nose, etc. as if it were something inferior.
Hell the Spanish didn't treat us that well, why should we continue adhering to the white-is-better-mentality?

Sorry for not being politically correct. I probably am even exaggerating, but I just had to get it off my chest.

Again, I don't think European is bad. My Spanish is not bad and I have friends from Spain. But we need more appreciation of who we are.

Now back to languages. Austronesian languages. :)


Yeah, I'm glad for the indonesian people for if it weren't for them the malay race might go extinct similar to the fate of other Austronesian peoples. If not for Indonesia the whole SE asia will be just an extension of CHina. nothing wrong with CHinese but it's better with variety and not one race overwhelming the others. Thailand , malaysia and singapore already gone that route.
ok sorry if it's ot . back to language.


Napagtanto ko na ito palang Romano Katolisismo na dinala dito ng mga Spaniards ay isang decoy ng mga European upang ipagpatuloy ang Roman Empire.
Huwag ka magtaka kung bakit nabuo ang Holy Roman Empire hanggang sa magkaroon ng Prussian identity.
Kung inyong mapapansin ang mga Pinoy ay mahihilig sa mga mapuputi, matatangos ang ilong, malalakas, gwapo, malalim ang bulsa at mga 'MALALAKI'(jumbo, big, giant, large).
Pansinin nyo rin ang imahe ng isa sa mga pinaka-recognize image ng Byzantine, ang Theotokos of the Passion.
Applyan nyo ng psycho analysis ang mga 'Filipino' at magkakaroon agad kayo ng conclusion.

Coz I bet it is... anyhow, I think some European mistook it to mean the Bisaya of Borneo when it seems to be archaic Cebuano circa the late 1800s. But the alibata and the orthography are very very interesting. Now this is another austronesian tool - the alibata. :banana:

Sprechen sie deutsche? Ich spreche nicht ser gut deutsche... hehehe
Ich spreche deutsch. :)

It's interesting how in Bisaya/Sebuano there are many words for we/us/our:
namu
(ka)namun
danum
kami
damun
amun

In Indonesian we basically use a single word: kami.
There's also kita, but it's for a different context. I think you guys also know the difference between kami and kita.

So the Indonesian "Our Father":

Bapa kami yang di surga
dikuduskanlah namamu
datanglah kerajaanmu
jadilah kehendakmu
di bumi seperti di surga
Berikanlah kami pada hari ini
makanan kami yang secukupnya
dan ampunilah kami akan kesalahan kami
seperti kami juga mengampuni yang bersalah kepada kami
Janganlah bawa kami ke dalam pencobaan
tapi lepaskanlah kami dari yang jahat
Karena engkaulah yang empunya kerajaan dan kuasa dan kemuliaan selama-lamanya.

-mu = your
engkau = you
Yet in the spoken language this distinction also tends to disappear.

There's also a tendency to merge kami and kita into kita in the spoken language.

Here's a song in an Indonesian dialect.

Z2oIX4Dj9mQ

Sio nona jang padede
Mari rapat kemarie
Jangan takut beta cuma polose

Badansa putar bae-bae
Jangan sampai ale tagae
Nanti pulang mama bisa bakalae

Hee... rame-rame
Mari katong badansa rame-rame
Hee... rame-rame
Badansa goyang badan manise

La dengar donci sio
He balenggang dan manari
Angka kaki atur langkah bae-bae

Jangan pulang nona
He balenggang dan manyanyi
Angaka pantun bikin rame pestae

Sio asal bisa jaga diri bae-bae
Jangan sampai pulang mama bakalae

Pukul tifa rame-rame
Pukul tifa rame-rame
Mari katong badansa
Rame-rame

Napagtanto ko na ito palang Romano Katolisismo na dinala dito ng mga Spaniards ay isang decoy ng mga European upang ipagpatuloy ang Roman Empire.
Huwag ka magtaka kung bakit nabuo ang Holy Roman Empire hanggang sa magkaroon ng Prussian identity.
Kung inyong mapapansin ang mga Pinoy ay mahihilig sa mga mapuputi, matatangos ang ilong, malalakas, gwapo, malalim ang bulsa at mga 'MALALAKI'(jumbo, big, giant, large).
Pansinin nyo rin ang imahe ng isa sa mga pinaka-recognize image ng Byzantine, ang Theotokos of the Passion.
Applyan nyo ng psycho analysis ang mga 'Filipino' at magkakaroon agad kayo ng conclusion.

Marami ngang pinoy mahilig sa 'MALALAKI'

sayang hindi na retain ang alibata. damn colonizers damaged everything.

In Indonesian, bilangan = number.
Like the fourth book in the Bible (Old Testament), before Deuteronomy and after Leviticus, is called Bilangan in Indonesian.


Thanks.
As I said, bahasa = language.
It has really become a shibboleth to recognize a non-native. A native Indonesian would never call the Indonesian language bahasa. For the above mentioned reason, we always say Bahasa Indonesia, even though it's four syllables longer.
The same goes for other languages.
English = Bahasa Inggris
Tagalog = Bahasa Tagalog
Cebuano = Bahasa Sebuano
Spanish = Bahasa Spanyol
Chinese = Bahasa Cina
etc.

Kawan saya tidak tahu kenapa Indonesia punya bahasa nacional tidak asli di Indonesia. Saya pikir itu bahasa dari Bangsa Malayu atau itu dari Sumatra Malayu.

I don't know why Indonesia is using a national language which I presumed is not an original language of Indonesia. I reckoned the national language (bahasa) used by Indonesia came from Federation of Malaysia or perhaps from Sumatra Malayu.

Salam.

sayang hindi na retain ang alibata. damn colonizers damaged everything.

I am sorry but you are wrong. The ancient writing has been preserved and even studied by Spanish, American, and Filipino scholars. It was an archaic way for the natives to progress and yes colonialism was a factor but in my opinion its demise did not hinder our nations progress. It was the Filipinos who abandoned it.

Here you can read and learn more about it. It is written in Spanish and some in English. Also, the baybayin scrips are written and shown in this book. Sadly, World War II destroyed many of our literatures in Manila's great libraries and Universities.

La antigua escritura Filipina: Filipina del Belarmino y etros antiguas documentos=the ancient Filipino writing from Belarmino and other ancient documents / por Ignacio Villamor.
Villamor, Ignacio, 1863-1933., American Philosophical Society. Library.
Manila: Islas Filipinas [Tip. pontificia del Colegio de Sto. Tomas], 1922. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20bisaya;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=APS6594.0001.001)

Kawan saya tidak tahu kenapa Indonesia punya bahasa nacional tidak asli di Indonesia. Saya pikir itu bahasa dari Bangsa Malayu atau itu dari Sumatra Malayu.

I don't know why Indonesia is using a national language which I presumed is not an original language of Indonesia. I reckoned the national language (bahasa) used by Indonesia came from Federation of Malaysia or perhaps from Sumatra Malayu.

Salam.
It is interesting indeed why Indonesians didn't pick Javanese which was numerically the largest language.
Yet I wouldn't go so far as to say that Malay, which evolved into Indonesian, wasn't native.
Apart from the fact that -as you said yourself- it had been the native language in some parts of Indonesia (Sumatra, Kalimantan, etc.), it had been the lingua franca in large parts of the archipelago for centuries, used even by the Javanese to communicate with people from other parts of the country.
And to those people who didn't really speak Malay at home, it wasn't truly a foreign language either.
I can't think of a better example right now, but for them it was probably like Spanish today is to many Catalan speakers. It's not their native language, but it's not a foreign language either.
Moreover we shouldn't forget that I was referring to the situation before 1945. Not to mention that the decision to pick Malay as the national language was made as early as 1928.
After over six decades of independence the reality today is that more and more generations are growing up having Indonesian/Malay as their native language.

To those of you who may not understand what this is all about:
Indonesian is based on Malay and even today Malaysians and Indonesians can communicate with each other almost effortlessly because from a linguistic point of view, they speak merely varieties of the same language. Similar cases are: Dari and Farsi, Valencian and Catalan, Croatian and Serbian, Danish and Norwegian, among others.

Coz I bet it is... anyhow, I think some European mistook it to mean the Bisaya of Borneo when it seems to be archaic Cebuano circa the late 1800s. But the alibata and the orthography are very very interesting. Now this is another austronesian tool - the alibata. :banana:

Sprechen sie deutsche? Ich spreche nicht ser gut deutsche... hehehe

what do you want me to translate... the "Vater Unser" is the German version of "Our Father"

para kay crappypants at Animo:

Sa pagkakaunawa ko, isa ang mga Kastila sa dahilan kung bakit nawaglit sa kasaysayan ng bansa ang kaugnayan natin sa kulturang Srivijaya at Majapahit.
Para lalo pang mabura ito ay itinanim sa puso't isipan ng bawat Filipino ang Katolisismo.

Okay. I've noticed that some words appear quite frequently in Philippine:

mga
ang
ng
sa
at
ka
ay

What do they mean?

I've just learned that

ka = you

na = now


Btw, another similar word.

year
P: taon
I: tahun, but the H is often not pronounced, and in the spoken language we actually sometimes say taon. :)

that
P: ito
I: itu

[QUOTE=xolang;42654878]Okay. I've noticed that some words appear quite frequently in Philippine:

Tagalog - English

mga = the (plural)
ang = the (singular)
ng = of
sa = at
at = and
ka = you (if used in "naroon ka ba? - are you there ? )
(or used for calling an elder persion example Ka Pedro)
ay = is

I've just learned that

ka = you

na = now



na = if used in word "doon na lang" just there, na = means just

na = if used in word " ngayon na " which means "just now" it's now "
na = means "just" or it's

the meaning of "na" change according to the construction of the sentence.

any "duals" (e.g. kita - as in papatayin kita ) in the other Austronesian languages, im curios

any "duals" (e.g. kita - as in papatayin kita ) in the other Austronesian languages, im curios

in Bahasa Indonesia "kita" means "you and me", or "tayo" - "we" in Tagalog

In Tagalog "kita" means "you" as in "napanaginipan kita", "papatayin kita"
"kita" also means wages

^^ "kita" = I (subj) + you (obj)... That's why it's referred to as a dual ( a form very typical in Sanskrit). "you and me" is not the right explanation I suppose....


Cebuano = Patyon taka! (dual) BUT gihigugma ko ikaw (VOS ???)...

It is interesting indeed why Indonesians didn't pick Javanese which was numerically the largest language.
Yet I wouldn't go so far as to say that Malay, which evolved into Indonesian, wasn't native.
Apart from the fact that -as you said yourself- it had been the native language in some parts of Indonesia (Sumatra, Kalimantan, etc.), it had been the lingua franca in large parts of the archipelago for centuries, used even by the Javanese to communicate with people from other parts of the country.
And to those people who didn't really speak Malay at home, it wasn't truly a foreign language either.
I can't think of a better example right now, but for them it was probably like Spanish today is to many Catalan speakers. It's not their native language, but it's not a foreign language either.
Moreover we shouldn't forget that I was referring to the situation before 1945. Not to mention that the decision to pick Malay as the national language was made as early as 1928.
After over six decades of independence the reality today is that more and more generations are growing up having Indonesian/Malay as their native language.


It is interesting to note that INdonesia adopted a national language that is not Javanese even though Jakarta, the capital city, is located in Java island. The concept of national language was widely accepted thru their declaration in 1928.

Today, even in far flung provinces of INdonesia, Bahasa Indonesia is spoken unlike in the Philippines wherein a 2 hour drive from north of Manila, you would already hear a different dialect.

More:

salah = wrong, mistake in Indonesia
nagkasala = Tagalog = commit a mistake

sayang hindi na retain ang alibata. damn colonizers damaged everything.

Even Malaysian and Indonesia are not using their ancient writing system anymore.

It is interesting to note that INdonesia adopted a national language that is not Javanese even though Jakarta, the capital city, is located in Java island. The concept of national language was widely accepted thru their declaration in 1928.

Today, even in far flung provinces of INdonesia, Bahasa Indonesia is spoken unlike in the Philippines wherein a 2 hour drive from north of Manila, you would already hear a different dialect.

More:

salah = wrong, mistake in Indonesia
nagkasala = Tagalog = commit a mistake

In Indonesia each region or provinces, deaerah or kampung have their own dialects and between them they used their own dialects. They only used Bahasa Indonesia when talking with peoples from different regions, provinces, daerah or kampung, same as in the Philippines.

It is interesting to note that INdonesia adopted a national language that is not Javanese even though Jakarta, the capital city, is located in Java island. The concept of national language was widely accepted thru their declaration in 1928.

Today, even in far flung provinces of INdonesia, Bahasa Indonesia is spoken unlike in the Philippines wherein a 2 hour drive from north of Manila, you would already hear a different dialect.

More:

salah = wrong, mistake in Indonesia
nagkasala = Tagalog = commit a mistake

Please note that in Indonesia, they used Bahasa Indonesia only when conversing with other peoples from different regions with different languages. They used their own dialects in their own regions when communicating with each others. Same as the Philippines.

Here in Pampanga, and in Pangasinan, Ilocos, etc they speak their own dialects when they were conversing to each other but used Filipino / Tagalog when conversing with Pinoys from other regions.

In Bahasa Indonesia - "salah" also mean guilt.
In Filipino / Tagalog - "kasalanan" means guilt.


I love you
In Bahasa Indonesia : Saya cinta padamu
saya = I
cinta = love
padamu = for you
pada = for

In pure Tagalog or old Tagalog : sinta means love

^^ Ei, bro. I remember this at the Jakarta Airport long time ago..

Buka
tagalog & cebuano = to open
bahasa = gate

Bukaka
tagalog & cebuano = **** censored**** :lol: nah, it's wide open but with heavy connotations
bahasa = ??

*********

Let us investigate this very endearing Austronesian word = LIMA = 5 coz it has withstood time and can be found in many, many, many austronesian descendants like all filipino languages use lime, bahasa i think uses it, many indonesian languages use it, it is used in Hawaiian plus many polynesian languages... nothin much, Lima strikes a deep austronesian chord somewhere, no? :)

In Bahasa gate and door is "pintuh"
In Bahasa "buka" means to open

In Tagalog " buka" means open

In Tagalog " pintu " is door.




BTW

English : Tagalog : Kapampangan : Cebuano : Bahasa Indonesia

animal : hayup
bird : ibon : ayup : langgam : burong
egg : itlog : ebon : : telur
ant : langgam : panas :

what do you want me to translate... the "Vater Unser" is the German version of "Our Father" I had a second look at that German sponsored site... I take it back, I really think they might be on to something there. Kasi the Germans are not reknowned to be stupid and careless. They are reknowned to be meticulous at details; these are German scholars and priests we are talkin' about. They wouldn't be stupid enough to confuse the Philippine languages with the Borneo languages.

Besides, they did state that the language printed there was spoken by only about a few thousand people, at most a minority tribe. The Bisaya of Borneo are a minority tribe... So yea, I am curious and I think they may be correct. I also remember on other sites and talkin to Chinese Peranakan friends that the native people of Borneo like the Bisaya are majority Christian. As such, even if they are Malay brown, it is still not politically correct to call them bumiputrah. I also talked with a friend from Manado. He said majority of the people of Manado, Indonesia are Christian. On the map Manado is much closer to Mindanao than Mindanao is to Manila. There are indeed significant Christian pockets in Indonesia. :)

Even Malaysian and Indonesia are not using their ancient writing system anymore. I still believe Christianity was one of the best things that happened to Filipinas. Otherwise my name would have been Mahathir, not Mercato. :lol: Remember, even Islam is an alien religion, alien to Southeast Asia with its origins from the Middle East. The original religion of the Austronesians was animism and nature worship. :)

On a personal note, I am happier with Christianity and how the Spanish consolidated the Catholic faith on our people today. After all, I can't imagine Cebuano culture without the Señor Santo Niño and the native blend of Sinulog. :cheers: (only IMHO, of course)

I had a second look at that German sponsored site... I take it back, I really think they might be on to something there. Kasi the Germans are not reknowned to be stupid and careless. They are reknowned to be meticulous at details; these are German scholars and priests we are talkin' about. They wouldn't be stupid enough to confuse the Philippine languages with the Borneo languages.

Besides, they did state that the language printed there was spoken by only about a few thousand people, at most a minority tribe. The Bisaya of Borneo are a minority tribe... So yea, I am curious and I think they may be correct. I also remember on other sites and talkin to Chinese Peranakan friends that the native people of Borneo like the Bisaya are majority Christian. As such, even if they are Malay brown, it is still not politically correct to call them bumiputrah. I also talked with a friend from Manado. He said majority of the people of Manado, Indonesia are Christian. On the map Manado is much closer to Mindanao than Mindanao is to Manila. There are indeed significant Christian pockets in Indonesia. :)

If the the native Bisaya tribe in Sabah were Christian then maybe they were the Christian Kadazan which is the majority tribe in Sabah.

Actually Bumiputra means the "sons of the soil" or natives. I reckoned all native tribes in Sabah, Sarawak, Brunei and Peninsular Malaysia can be called Bumiputra.

Actually in North Celebes or the Sulawesi Utara in which the Capital city is Menado, in Ambon and in other islands of Eastern Indonesia the peoples were mostly Christian. However since the 1970s transmigrant from the populous islands of Java and Sumatra migrated to Celebes, Ambon, Halmahera and other parts of Eastern Indonesia including Irian Jaya / Papua.

The religion of Irian Jaya / Papua, Ambon, Celebes, Halmahera and other islands of Eastern Indonesia is Catholic and Protestant since the Dutch were both Catholic and Protestant.

However after the 1970s the Indonesian government started their Transmigration policy and now the people of Eastern Indonesia is mixed Islam and Christian (Catholic and Protestant)

^^^^ Indeed, you are correct. I remember that the Bisaya and the Kadazan are closely related. Yes, the term bumiputra technically means sons of the soil. However, in some "politically correct" circles in Kuala Lumpur, it is not "politically correct" to call these lumads as such because their culture is a bit "alien" and "off" to the Establishment in KL.

I still believe Christianity was one of the best things that happened to Filipinas. Otherwise my name would have been Mahathir, not Mercato. :lol: Remember, even Islam is an alien religion, alien to Southeast Asia with its origins from the Middle East. The original religion of the Austronesians was animism and nature worship. :)

On a personal note, I am happier with Christianity and how the Spanish consolidated the Catholic faith on our people today. After all, I can't imagine Cebuano culture without the Señor Santo Niño and the native blend of Sinulog. :cheers: (only IMHO, of course)


A country can be progressive whether they were Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, Muslims, Hindus, or whatever.
It only depends on their leaders and citizens if they love their country.

Btw Religion is the Opium (Cocaine) of the people. IMHO

^^ Ah yes... but Karl Marx's theories had already been largely discredited in most parts of the civilized world. :lol: So amongst the choices of Religions in the world, I am quite happy and content with mine... :)

^^ Ah yes... but Karl Marx's theories had already been largely discredited in most parts of the civilized world. :lol: So amongst the choices of Religions in the world, I am quite happy and content with mine... :)

I read somewhere though not the whole article, that the Capitalism practiced by the Western world including Asian countries, resulted to the recent Global meldown / recession.

They said that Socialism will replace the Capitalist economic system in the near future to prevent future economic meltdown which the western workd and we recently experienced.


btw I am not contented with my Catholic religion...... I am thinking to transfer to either Islam or Mormon :)

^^^^ :? ... :lol: ... :bow: buajajaja ur one helluva horny dude... the common denominator to both --- havin many wives!!

@TheAvenger:
Thanks a lot for the explanations!

in Bahasa Indonesia "kita" means "you and me", or "tayo" - "we" in Tagalog

In Tagalog "kita" means "you" as in "napanaginipan kita", "papatayin kita"
"kita" also means wages

^^ "kita" = I (subj) + you (obj)... That's why it's referred to as a dual ( a form very typical in Sanskrit). "you and me" is not the right explanation I suppose....


Cebuano = Patyon taka! (dual) BUT gihigugma ko ikaw (VOS ???)...
Don't you have kami too? What does tayo mean?

Philippine languages seem to be more complicated than Indonesian.

For we/us/our, we only have two words:
kami = we/us/our not including you(r), and
kita = we/us/our including you(r).

And as I mentioned, in the spoken language, the two tend to merge into kita, regardless of whether you're included or not.

Another interesting thing is that we sometimes use kita for I/me/my. In Manado dialect it's even standard.


In Bahasa Manado:

kita = I

ngana = you (singular)

dia = (s)he

kita-orang, kitorang, torang, tong = we

ngoni = you guys, y'all

dorang, dong = they



Back to Indonesian:

Kamu was originally "you guys", but nowadays it's usually used to address one person.
I realized this after noticing that in the Bible, kamu is always used to adress more than one person.
This development is similar to English you (originally, the singular form was thou), Spanish vos, and Dutch jij.

The modern form of "you guys" is kalian, shortened from kamu sekalian.

^^
Tagalog
kami = we / us
kita = you
tayo = we / us
kayo = you guys

Cebuano
kami = we / us
kita = we / us
kamu = you guys

:banana: que interesante no?

Even Malaysian and Indonesia are not using their ancient writing system anymore.And I'm glad we don't. With Jawi script you have to guess the vowels, and you know how important the vowels are in Austronesian languages.

It is interesting to note that INdonesia adopted a national language that is not Javanese even though Jakarta, the capital city, is located in Java island. The concept of national language was widely accepted thru their declaration in 1928.

Today, even in far flung provinces of INdonesia, Bahasa Indonesia is spoken unlike in the Philippines wherein a 2 hour drive from north of Manila, you would already hear a different dialect.
In Indonesia each region or provinces, deaerah or kampung have their own dialects and between them they used their own dialects. They only used Bahasa Indonesia when talking with peoples from different regions, provinces, daerah or kampung, same as in the Philippines.
Please note that in Indonesia, they used Bahasa Indonesia only when conversing with other peoples from different regions with different languages. They used their own dialects in their own regions when communicating with each others. Same as the Philippines.

Here in Pampanga, and in Pangasinan, Ilocos, etc they speak their own dialects when they were conversing to each other but used Filipino / Tagalog when conversing with Pinoys from other regions.
True. In Indonesia basically everybody speaks Indonesian and there hasn't been any objection or rivalry comparable to e.g. Sebuano and Tagalog.

Regional languages/dialects still exist, but young people in larger cities are growing up using Indonesian more and more, at the cost of losing the regional language/dialect.

For example in Surabaya, twenty years ago the kids there still used to converse in Javanese, but nowadays they use Indonesian among themselves. The same thing is happening in numerous other places all across the country.


I love you
In Bahasa Indonesia : Saya cinta padamu
saya = I
cinta = love
padamu = for you
pada = for

In pure Tagalog or old Tagalog : sinta means love
Pada also means "to".

Its function here is similar to a in Spanish Te quiero a vos.

There's no similar example in English because you don't say I love to you.

^^
Tagalog
kami = we / us
kita = you
tayo = we / us
kayo = you guys

Cebuano
kami = we / us
kita = we / us
kamu = you guys

:banana: que interesante no?
Thx!

I thought "you" was ikaw..

In this case, Bahasa Sebuano is certainly closer to Indonesian. :)

In Bahasa gate and door is "pintuh"
In Bahasa "buka" means to open

In Tagalog " buka" means open

In Tagalog " pintu " is door.




BTW

English : Tagalog : Kapampangan : Cebuano : Bahasa Indonesia

animal : hayup
bird : ibon : ayup : langgam : burong
egg : itlog : ebon : : telur
ant : langgam : panas :
Bahasa = language. And you know that very well. ;)


In Indonesian, door is pintu.

animal = binatang, hewan, haiwan (Malaysian)

bird = burung

ant = semut

Panas means hot.

Mga = mañga (mang-ah) it is written like this before and I prefer it this way because it is easier for non-natives to actually know how to pronounce the word.

Lecciones de gramática hispano-tagala / compuesta por José Hevia Campomanes.
Manila: Tip. de la Univ. de Sto. Tomas, 1930. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ACL3264.0001.001)

Xolang you can read this page about the accents and it has stress on it which was also used before in the Philippines but it declined after the war (I believe) página 5 (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;idno=ACL3264.0001.001;didno=ACL3264.0001.001;view=image;seq=00000009)

To me if we practiced using the stress on the words it would be easier for a lot of people to learn our languages. :)

Bahasa = language. And you know that very well. ;)


In Indonesian, door is pintu.

animal = binatang, hewan, haiwan (Malaysian)

bird = burung

ant = semut

Panas means hot.

In Cebuano

Animal (English) = Animal (Spanish pronunciation)
Door = Portahan or Puertahan (Puerta)
Ant = Hormigas or some variations like la migas which I had heard used to describe it.
Panas = To erase in Cebuano
Bird = Langgam

I had a second look at that German sponsored site... I take it back, I really think they might be on to something there. Kasi the Germans are not reknowned to be stupid and careless. They are reknowned to be meticulous at details; these are German scholars and priests we are talkin' about. They wouldn't be stupid enough to confuse the Philippine languages with the Borneo languages.

Besides, they did state that the language printed there was spoken by only about a few thousand people, at most a minority tribe. The Bisaya of Borneo are a minority tribe... So yea, I am curious and I think they may be correct. I also remember on other sites and talkin to Chinese Peranakan friends that the native people of Borneo like the Bisaya are majority Christian. As such, even if they are Malay brown, it is still not politically correct to call them bumiputrah. I also talked with a friend from Manado. He said majority of the people of Manado, Indonesia are Christian. On the map Manado is much closer to Mindanao than Mindanao is to Manila. There are indeed significant Christian pockets in Indonesia. :)
Ich glaub du überschätzt einfach die Deutschen. ;)

My parents come from Manado/Minahasa.
I was surprised myself to read that it had been Christian for over three centuries and that it had never been islamized during its history. Well, perhaps there are attempts today, but Christianity is soo Manado, or to say it another way, Manado is so Christian.
Fact is, Christianity is an inherent part of Manado/Minahasan culture.

If the the native Bisaya tribe in Sabah were Christian then maybe they were the Christian Kadazan which is the majority tribe in Sabah.

Actually Bumiputra means the "sons of the soil" or natives. I reckoned all native tribes in Sabah, Sarawak, Brunei and Peninsular Malaysia can be called Bumiputra.

Actually in North Celebes or the Sulawesi Utara in which the Capital city is Manado, in Ambon and in other islands of Eastern Indonesia the peoples were mostly Christian. However since the 1970s transmigrant from the populous islands of Java and Sumatra migrated to Celebes, Ambon, Halmahera and other parts of Eastern Indonesia including Irian Jaya / Papua.

The religion of Irian Jaya / Papua, Ambon, Celebes, Halmahera and other islands of Eastern Indonesia is Catholic and Protestant since the Dutch were both Catholic and Protestant.

However after the 1970s the Indonesian government started their Transmigration policy and now the people of Eastern Indonesia is mixed Islam and Christian (Catholic and Protestant)
:master:

In the western half of Indonesia, there's also Christian pockets in northern Sumatra (Batak), and here and there in Java.
In Kalimantan, AFAICR the Dayak people were traditionally Christian.

^^^^ Indeed, you are correct. I remember that the Bisaya and the Kadazan are closely related. Yes, the term bumiputra technically means sons of the soil. However, in some "politically correct" circles in Kuala Lumpur, it is not "politically correct" to call these lumads as such because their culture is a bit "alien" and "off" to the Establishment in KL.
Bumi = earth
Putra = son, the female form would be putri, which also means princess.

Both loanwords from Sanskrit.

In Cebuano

Animal (English) = Animal (Spanish pronunciation)
Door = Portahan or Puertahan (Puerta)
Ant = Hormigas or some variations like la migas which I had heard used to describe it.
Panas = To erase in Cebuano
Bird = Langgam
Thanks!

Btw, in Bahasa Manado, hot is paso'.

In Indonesian, erase is hapus. Again, the H is often not pronounced, so it ends up like apus.

Thx!

I thought "you" was ikaw..

In this case, Bahasa Sebuano is certainly closer to Indonesian. :)


English - You
Tagalog - Ikaw
Bahasa Indonesia - engkau ? saudara ?

According to some Internet topics, I have read, it said the Visayan people originate most probably from Java, while the Ilocanos came from Sumatra (Batak region). while the Tagalog most probably came from Sabah and Sarawak area.

Thanks!

Btw, in Bahasa Manado, hot is paso'.

In Indonesian, erase is hapus. Again, the H is often not pronounced, so it ends up like apus.

In Waray "paso" means hot.:D

According to some Internet topics, I have read, it said the Visayan people originate most probably from Java, while the Ilocanos came from Sumatra (Batak region). while the Tagalog most probably came from Sabah and Sarawak area.

No. The wave of immigration was from North to South. That concept has already been disproved a long time ago. I have to look for that article about the languages. :D

mYSr2k4buqU

Scholar says Negritos are the ‘original Filipinos’

By Vincent Cabreza (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view/20080212-118459/Who-are-the-indigenous)
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 23:11:00 02/12/2008

Filed Under: indigenous people, Regional authorities

BAGUIO CITY – All these years, school teachers have taught Filipino children that Filipinos belong to the Malay stock.

Now comes a language scholar, who has authored influential studies about Cordillera and other Philippine languages for almost 50 years, who says that linguistic, archaeological and anthropological findings collected through the years prove that this assertion may have been wrong.

Based on a comprehensive study of Philippine languages and dialects, Dr. Lawrence Reid, a New Zealand-born researcher emeritus of the University of Hawaii, dates the indigenous and mainstream Filipino to Taiwan about 4,500 years ago.

Reid says the people Filipinos call “indigenous” today are themselves immigrants to the country and have become a minority that has been marginalized by the state.

He says the “original Filipinos” everyone refers to are actually the Negritos who are all but extinct in the country of their birth.

Reid has developed an influential body of work on Philippine languages – with the Ivatan language in the 1960s, a contribution to the Tasaday debate in the 1980s, and recently, with online dictionaries of a Mt. Province dialect that he speaks fluently.

In 2006, he was honored at the 10th International Conference on Austronesian Linguistics in Palawan.

Uninformed

In a paper, entitled “Who are the Indigenous? Origins and Transformations,” he presented to the First International Conference on Cordillera Studies held last week at the University of the Philippines Baguio, Reid asked the government to correct websites that contain “uninformed and grossly amateurish statements about the cultural minorities.”

The most prominent site Reid poked fun at belongs to the National Commission on Indigenous Peoples (NCIP), the agency tasked to administer, supervise and grant ancestral land titles to indigenous Filipinos.

“There we find materials that have apparently been taken from popular descriptions and old, long outdated history books that refer to the multiple migration hypotheses of Dr. H. Otley Beyer, the leading Philippine ethnologist of his day, and which I am told is commonly taught in Philippine schools today,” he says.

He says the NCIP profiles the Ifugao as “descendants of the first wave of Malay immigrants to the country.” The Kalinga are said to be descendants of the second group of Malays who came to the islands.

“The Ibaloi are described as ‘peaceful, hardworking, and hospitable tribesmen. They are generally fair in complexion and have well-developed bodies, usually standing four to five feet above in height, have medium and narrow noses and some have broad flat noses,’” he says.

“Attention to the shape of the nose is also mentioned for the Kallahan (or Ikalahan),” he says, as well as the Bugkalot, the Yogad of Isabela and the Ivatan of Batanes.

“Absurd and completely unscientific descriptions such as these are internationally read, and not only give completely erroneous descriptions of Philippine indigenous groups, but cast a very poor light on the level of Philippine scholarship,” he says.

Who does the indigenous Filipino take after?

Reid says: “It is simply not true that the ancestors of Ifugaos or any Cordilleran peoples or of the Tagalogs or other lowland groups are descendants of the original inhabitants of the Philippines.”

“When your ancestors first arrived in these islands, they were not unoccupied. They were occupied by maybe hundreds of groups of Negritos, most of who have been completely assimilated or have died out,” he says.

He says scientists have located 25 present-day groups of Negrito stock who still thrive, although they are on the brink of extinction themselves.

Reid says the latest United Nations policy subscribes to the definition that indigenous peoples are “original inhabitants of a country, who inhabited the present territory of a country, at a time when persons of a different culture or ethnic origin arrived there.”

Negritos are “the true first Filipinos” who date back to 50,000 years, he says, while the Ifugao ancestors who reputedly built the world heritage enshrined rice terraces appeared to have arrived only 4,000 years ago “as their first colonizers.”

“It is these first Filipinos who are the most downtrodden and socially marginalized of all Filipinos, and most in need of urgent action to enable them to survive in this society,” he says.

The Cordillera no longer hosts Negrito tribes, although Reid says anthropologists have found evidence that Alta Negritos of the Sierra Madre used to thrive in the Ifugao mountains.

Citing the discovery of ancient pottery shards in a cave in Itbayat, Batanes by archaeologist Peter Bellwood of the Australian National University, Reid says strong evidence “marks [the first colonizers] as being part of a Neolithic culture that existed in southwest Taiwan and [who] spread south from there into the Batanes islands and Northern Luzon.”

He says the artifact supports irrefutable linguistic evidence debunking the “pre-scientific myth that Philippine languages are somehow corrupted versions of Malay, as a result of multiple migrations from the south.”

@Animo:
Thanks for the article. I'll read it soon.

English - You
Tagalog - Ikaw
Bahasa Indonesia - engkau ? saudara ?

According to some Internet topics, I have read, it said the Visayan people originate most probably from Java, while the Ilocanos came from Sumatra (Batak region). while the Tagalog most probably came from Sabah and Sarawak area.
So in Bahasa Tagalog you can use ikaw and kita for you?
Is kita singular or plural?

In Indonesian, engkau is (singular) you. From my experience, engkau is not used daily conversation anymore, but it is alive and well in song lyrics, or when you're trying to be poetic and such.
Saudara, from sa+udara, means sibling or relative/kin in general.
It should be noted that in Indonesian, addressing a person with a direct you (kau & its variants engkau, dikau; kamu; (e)loe; anda) is common only in certain situations.
For example, I would never address my sister or parents or any older person with any of those. Saudara is one of the ways to address another person indirectly.

In Waray "paso" means hot.:D
:okay: We are saudara indeed!!

^^ The term kita is used as a verb, while ikaw is a noun. Both are in the singular form.

I had a second look at that German sponsored site... I take it back, I really think they might be on to something there. Kasi the Germans are not reknowned to be stupid and careless. They are reknowned to be meticulous at details; these are German scholars and priests we are talkin' about. They wouldn't be stupid enough to confuse the Philippine languages with the Borneo languages.

Besides, they did state that the language printed there was spoken by only about a few thousand people, at most a minority tribe. The Bisaya of Borneo are a minority tribe... So yea, I am curious and I think they may be correct. I also remember on other sites and talkin to Chinese Peranakan friends that the native people of Borneo like the Bisaya are majority Christian. As such, even if they are Malay brown, it is still not politically correct to call them bumiputrah. I also talked with a friend from Manado. He said majority of the people of Manado, Indonesia are Christian. On the map Manado is much closer to Mindanao than Mindanao is to Manila. There are indeed significant Christian pockets in Indonesia. :)


The site is reflective of a none-funded no-budget one.

Afaik, many Visayans came to settle in the northern part of Borneo as they did in Southern Mindanao. Btw, while in exile in Dapitan, Rizal wanted Spain to establish a colony there. Though the "Lord's Prayer" shown on that page "sounded" Visayan aka Cebuano it's not in totality. We're talking of an autonomous visayan language there perhaps brought and spoken by the visayan settlers of Borneo.

The term kita is used as a verb, while ikaw is a noun. Both are in the singular form.
"You" can be a verb?? Not in English AFAICR.
Perhaps an example could help?

^^ The word itself isn't a verb per se, it's used to reference a verb in the sentence.

Example: Minahal kita (I loved you). "Minahal" is the verb, and "kita" is used to reference that verb.

^^ The word itself isn't a verb per se, it's used to reference a verb in the sentence.

Example: Minahal kita (I loved you). "Minahal" is the verb, and "kita" is used to reference that verb.
Thanks.

I've always wondered how one structurally/grammatically explains mahal kita.
I thought it was like We're dear/expensive to each other. Or something like You're dear/expensive to me

Found another one!

help
P: tulong
I: tolong, in some dialects or accents, like for example in Betawi accent, it's tulung.

Thanks.

I've always wondered how one structurally/grammatically explains mahal kita.
I thought it was like We're dear/expensive to each other. Or something like You're dear/expensive to me

" Minahal kita " means love that happens in the past.

The proper sentence should be " Iniibig Kita " - I love you
In Bahasa Indonesia - Saya cinta padamu.


"Mahal kita" means "I love you" also but not so strong as " Iniibig Kita "

One could also say this in Tagalog and be more poetic: Mahal kita sinta ko.

" Minahal kita " means love that happens in the past.

I guess the proper sentence is "Mahal kita" - I love you.

In Bahasa Indonesia - Saya cinta padamu.
In Indonesian there are various ways of saying "I love you", covering different nuances unable to be expressed in a similar way in English.

Saya cinta padamu

1) Instead of saya you could also use
aku
gue/gua
kita
Each expressing something different regarding your relation to the other person.

2) Instead of cinta you could also say
sayang
mengasihi, from kasih, which means both give and love
Each has a different meaning of love.

3) Instead of pada you could say
sama
or omit it altogether.

4) Instead of -mu,
kamu
elò, elú, lo, lu
Each expresses something slightly different. Not as strong as the differences between saya & aku & gua & kita though.

As the result you could have .... for "I love you":
Saya cinta padamu
Saya cinta kamu
Saya cinta sama kamu
Saya sayang kamu
Gue sayang sama lo
Gue cinta elò
Aku sayang kamu
Aku sayang sama kamu
Aku cinta kamu
Aku cinta padamu
Kita sayang kamu
Aku mengasihimu
Saya mengasihimu
Aku mengasihi kamu
etc.
With slight differences of expression between them.

One could also say this in Tagalog and be more poetic: Mahal kita sinta ko.
Like: I love you love you?

Tagalog also seems to have these different nuances of saying "I love you", don't you?
Like
mahal kita
inibiig kita
mahal kita sinta ko

that
P: ito
I: itu
Do you guys differentiate between this and that?
Germans theoretically have dies (this) and das or jenes (that), but in practice, das is used for both this and that.


In Indonesian we have itu (that) and ini (this).
Also reflected in other pairs, like

sini (here)
situ (there)
There's also sana, which also means there, often a bit further than situ.
There's sono, which is considered a bit vulgar. It also means there.

begini (like this)
begitu (like that)


I read that ini is a loanword from Persian. If Philippine languages do not have something similar to ini, then it may be true.

In Cebuano: 'kani' means 'this' and kaná means 'that'. In Tagalog: they have 'itó' which mean 'this' and 'iyán' which means 'that'.

In Cebuano: 'kani' means 'this' and kaná means 'that'. In Tagalog: they have 'itó' which mean 'this' and 'iyán' which means 'that'.

Also in Tagalog :

Ire - this
ganire - like this

In Cebuano: 'kani' means 'this' and kaná means 'that'. In Tagalog: they have 'itó' which mean 'this' and 'iyán' which means 'that'.
Also in Tagalog :

Ire - this
ganire - like this
Well I guess ini in Indonesian is not a Persian loanword. ;)

In Malagasy, this/that have various forms, yet unmistakably Austronesian:
ito
ini (spelled iny)
iri (spelled iry)

Let us investigate this very endearing Austronesian word = LIMA = 5 coz it has withstood time and can be found in many, many, many austronesian descendants like all filipino languages use lime, bahasa indonesia i think uses it, many indonesian languages use it, it is used in Hawaiian plus many polynesian languages... nothin much, Lima strikes a deep austronesian chord somewhere, no? :)
Yeah. Lima and mata seem to have remained the same in most Austronesian languages. :)
In Malagasy it's dimi (spelled dimy) and maso.

Malagasy seems to have an interesting sound change compared to the languages in our archipelago.
Here we tend to change F to P, yet in Malagasy it's the other way around. They also have V, TR, TS, and other sounds that appear exotic to us.

moon
Indonesian: bulan
Javanese: wulan
Tetun: fulan
Tagalog: buwan
Hiligaynon: bulan
Fijian: vula
Malagasy: volana

water, lake
Sebuano: lanaw
I: danau, sometimes pronounced dano
Malagasy: rano

fire
Tagalog: apoy
Malagasy: afo
I: api

man
P: lalaki
I: lelaki, laki-laki
Malagasy: lahi, lehilahi, spelled lahy, lehilahy

I
P: ako
I: aku
Malagasy: aho
In my father's dialect: si+ahu

salty, salt
P, I: asin
Malagasy: masina

dead
I: mati
Malagasy: mati, spelled maty

rain
P: ulan, uwan
I: ujan, spelled hujan
Malagasy: orana

cheek
I: pipi
Malagasy: fifi, spelled fify


Final -t tends to become -tra in Malagasy

4
P, I: empat, apat
Malagasy: efatra

mouth
I: mulut
Malagasy: molotra

storm
I: (angin) rinut
Malagasy: rivotra

sky
P: langit
I: langit
Maori: rangi
Malagasy: lanitra

that
P: ito
I: itu

"that" in tagalog is "iyon"/iyan..."ito/eto" in english is "this" loan from spanish word "esto" which means "this"

i remember one time my officemate (a filipina) was trying to describe what she did to her pants (she cut it and joined with a different piece sa baba) then our colleagues cannot understand what she was trying to explain. then she talked to me in bisaya asking me to explain that what she did was to "putol" and "sumpay" (cut and join)..upon hearing this our colleague (a chinese-malaysian) exlaimed " Oh i understand already, you mean cut and join right)..apparently the bahasa for cut and join sounds like "putol" and "sumpay"

In Indonesian we have itu (that) and ini (this).
Also reflected in other pairs, like

sini (here)
situ (there)
There's also sana, which also means there, often a bit further than situ.
There's sono, which is considered a bit vulgar. It also means there.

begini (like this)
begitu (like that)


in visaya we have ingon adtu (like that) and ingon ini (like this)

we have dinhi (here) and didtu (there)

Like: I love you love you?

Tagalog also seems to have these different nuances of saying "I love you", don't you?
Like
mahal kita
inibiig kita
mahal kita sinta ko

Sorry, I was using my mobile to post earlier and it was hard to cut your long post. :D

Mahal kita sinta ko = I love you my darling

Sinta = My beloved, my lover, my darling

in visaya we have ingon adtu (like that) and ingon ini (like this)

we have dinhi (here) and didtu (there)

I am not sure if this is a Cebu thing but I use "Iñg adtú" and "Iñg ani". To me "iñgon" means "to say". Ex. Iñgon sa akong inahán naáy iró dihá. / My mother told me that there is a dog over there.



we have dinhi (here) and didtu (there)

Dirí and dihá for me. :D

Also in Tagalog :

Ire - this
ganire - like this

Ganito and Ganyan too! :)

"that" in tagalog is "iyon"/iyan..."ito/eto" in english is "this" loan from spanish word "esto" which means "this"

i think it's este in Spanish. no relation whatsoever.

"that" in tagalog is "iyon"/iyan..."ito/eto" in english is "this" loan from spanish word "esto" which means "this"
It's true that in some Spanish dialects, esto/este/esta ends up sounding like ehto/ehte/ehta. But this is probably a coincidence, just like the fact that the Persian word for this is similar to Indonesian ini, or that Russian eta sounds like Sundanese età. Besides, the Spanish that was brought to the Philippines was probably more of the Mexican type, where the S's and Z's are not dropped.

;42709600']i remember one time my officemate (a filipina) was trying to describe what she did to her pants (she cut it and joined with a different piece sa baba) then our colleagues cannot understand what she was trying to explain. then she talked to me in bisaya asking me to explain that what she did was to "putol" and "sumpay" (cut and join)..upon hearing this our colleague (a chinese-malaysian) exlaimed " Oh i understand already, you mean cut and join right)..apparently the bahasa for cut and join sounds like "putol" and "sumpay"
Which bahasa do you mean? Bahasa Tagalog? Bahasa Inggris? Bahasa Cina?

In Indonesian, cut is potong and a similar word to sumpay is sumpal. I don't know how to explain its meaning though.

Sorry, I was using my mobile to post earlier and it was hard to cut your long post. :D

Mahal kita sinta ko = I love you my darling

Sinta = My beloved, my lover, my darling
Thanks!

In Indonesian, my beloved, my lover, my darling:
sayang(ku)
cinta(ku)
kekasih(ku)

in visaya we have ingon adtu (like that) and ingon ini (like this)

we have dinhi (here) and didtu (there)

I am not sure if this is a Cebu thing but I use "Iñg adtú" and "Iñg ani".

Dirí and dihá for me. :D

Dinhi and didtu are really similar to sini (here) and situ (there) in Indonesian! :)

Don't you have kami too? What does tayo mean?

Philippine languages seem to be more complicated than Indonesian.

For we/us/our, we only have two words:
kami = we/us/our not including you(r), and
kita = we/us/our including you(r).
Tagalog:

kami = we, us (excluding the addressee)
tayo = we, us (including the addressee)

Bicolano:

kami = we, us (excluding the person spoken to)
kita = we, us (including the person spoken to)

So in Bahasa Tagalog you can use ikaw and kita for you?
Is kita singular or plural?
"kita" is a portmanteau pronoun. it means "I + you".

e.g.

mahal kita = I love you

mahal = love
kita = I + you

Do you guys differentiate between this and that?

In Indonesian we have itu (that) and ini (this).

I read that ini is a loanword from Persian. If Philippine languages do not have something similar to ini, then it may be true.
Bicolano:

idto = that
ini = this

Tagalog:

kami = we, us (excluding the addressee)
tayo = we, us (including the addressee)

Bicolano:

kami = we, us (excluding the person spoken to)
kita = we, us (including the person spoken to)


"kita" is a portmanteau pronoun. it means "I + you".

e.g.

mahal kita = I love you

mahal = love
kita = I + you


Bicolano:

idto = that
ini = this
Thanks a lot!

I find the existence of such a portmanteau pronoun in Tagalog quite interesting.

Apparently Indonesian share the same system as Bikolano and Sebuano in opposing kami and kita. Though as I said, in the spoken language we tend to say kita for both cases.

I am not sure if this is a Cebu thing but I use "Iñg adtú" and "Iñg ani". To me "iñgon" means "to say". Ex. Iñgon sa akong inahán naáy iró dihá. / My mother told me that there is a dog over there.


"ingon" also means "like"...cebuano words have lot of letter deletion ex:

katulogon = katulgon - "o" was dropped

thus "ing-ania" is "ingon ania" - "on" was dropped

OT: With the way this thread is going, the title Austronesian doesn't seem to fit quite right. Since there really isn't an "Austronesian" language per se, but a group of interrelated languages labeled as such found in the same geographical grouping.









ADDENDUM: Renamed the thread to reflect its relevance.

baca (pronounced as bacha) - read in Indonesian
basa - read in Filipino

gunting (scissor) (Indonesian, Filipino)

meja (table) - Indonesian
mesa - Filipino

baca (pronounced as bacha) - read in Indonesian
basa - read in Filipino

gunting (scissor) (Indonesian, Filipino)

meja (table) - Indonesian
mesa - Filipino


" mesa " is spanish-origin word ,

therefore I gues " meja " is not indonesian but Dutch-origin word.

^^
pwede rin! :okay:

" mesa " is spanish-origin word ,

therefore I gues " meja " is not indonesian but Dutch-origin word.

Meja is actually borrowed from Portuguese (possibly a historical pronunciation from when mesa was introduced into Malay and Indonesian sometime in the 17th century, similar to how relos and sabon in Tagalog were historical pronunciations of what is currently reloj and jabón in Spanish). The word "table" in Dutch is tafel.

" mesa " is spanish-origin word ,

therefore I gues " meja " is not indonesian but Dutch-origin word.
Meja is actually borrowed from Portuguese (possibly a historical pronunciation from when mesa was introduced into Malay and Indonesian sometime in the 17th century, similar to how relos and sabon in Tagalog were historical pronunciations of what is currently reloj and jabón in Spanish). The word "table" in Dutch is tafel.
Even today, in Portuguese, mesa sounds like meza, and Indonesians tend to replace the Z sound to J or S.

The result:

Portu mesa, pronounced meza, becomes meja.

Portu camisa, pronounced kamiza, becomes kemeja (the first E a shwa) in Indonesian.

Similar thing happened with loanwords from other languages, such as Arabic izin, azan, zakat which often end up being pronounced, and sometimes written, as ijin, ajan, jakat.


Soap in Indonesian is sabun, in Manado sabong.

I thought I had asked this in another thread but somehow I couldn't find it:

With Austronesian languages having no grammatical genders at all, is there a tendency among Philippines to say something like:
She's (a) Pinoy/Pilipino/Filipino ?


In Indonesian, as we do not differentiate the genders when it comes to nationalities, we say:

Filipina for the Philippines;
Orang Filipina for a Philippine person, be it a man or a woman;
and an average Indonesian who doesn't know about the linguistic situation in Filipina would say Bahasa Filipina to refer to the "Philippine language".

orang = person
bahasa = language

Considering the fact that the Philippine languages and English are to a large extent genderless, is there a tendency of losing the gender distinction also in Pilipino or Pinoy?
So like saying "She's a Pinoy/Pilipino/Filipino"?

Is Pinoy a word that is to be avoided? Is it derogatory?


^^ I already answered it but the moderator moved it to the Tagalog thread. In academics it is avoided. It is not a proper word in Filipino dictionary. It is just a slang. The proper words are Filipino and Filipina to tell apart a male and female individual.

In Tagalog it is Pilipino and Pilipina. In Filipino language, it is Filipino and Filipina. Also, it is supposed to be the same for the rest of other foreigners: Hapon at Haponesa, Amerikano at Amerikana, Mehikano at Mehikana, Espanyol at Espanyola, etc. (BUT not all are being followed tho) :)

I already answered it but the moderator moved it to the Tagalog thread. In academics it is avoided. It is not a proper word in Filipino dictionary. It is just a slang. The proper words are Filipino and Filipina to tell apart a male and female individual.

In Tagalog it is Pilipino and Pilipina. In Filipino language, it is Filipino and Filipina. Also, it is supposed to be the same for the rest of other foreigners: Hapon at Haponesa, Amerikano at Amerikana, Mehikano at Mehikana, Espanyol at Espanyola, etc. (BUT not all are being followed tho) :)
Thanks Animo! I didn't get any notification about its removal.. :/

So you do sometimes say She's (a) Filipino/Pinoy ?

And for Indonesian you have indonesio and indonesia?

Do you have a system comparable to Indonesian (and I believe Chinese too) for nationalities/ethnicities? So person + country/land?

In Indonesian:

orang = person

Orang Indonesia = (an) Indonesian

Inggris = England
Orang Inggris = English(wo)man

Spanyol = Spain
Orang Spanyol = Spaniard

Amerika = USA
Orang Amerika = American

Jepang = Japan
Orang Jepang = Japanese

Meksiko = Mexico
Orang Meksiko = Mexican

etc.

All of them without any distinction according to gender.

Thanks Animo! I didn't get any notification about its removal.. :/

So you do sometimes say She's (a) Filipino/Pinoy ?

And for Indonesian you have indonesio and indonesia?

Do you have a system comparable to Indonesian (and I believe Chinese too) for nationalities/ethnicities? So person + country/land?

In Indonesian:

orang = person

Orang Indonesia = (an) Indonesian

Inggris = England
Orang Inggris = English(wo)man

Spanyol = Spain
Orang Spanyol = Spaniard

Amerika = USA
Orang Amerika = American

Jepang = Japan
Orang Jepang = Japanese

Meksiko = Mexico
Orang Meksiko = Mexican

etc.

All of them without any distinction according to gender.

Unlike Malay and Indonesian, the Spanish influence on Filipino has influenced the way we address foreigners. Some of these borrowings differentiate between males and females (Indones and Indonesa, Hapones and Haponesa, Benesolano and Benesolana), while others are independent of gender (Indyan, Malay, Tay). If the nationality isn't part of the lexicon, the prefix taga- (meaning "from") is added onto the country name. Someone then from Eritrea, for example, would be taga-Eritrea.

One particularly controversial nationality happens to be that of the Vietnamese. In Filipino, the proper terms are Biyetnames and Biyetnamesa. However, these are mistaken borrowings, as the Spanish term for "Vietnamese" (which is where the term Biyetnames supposedly comes from) is vietnamita. The only language which even comes close to Biyetnames is Romanian (vietnameză), though this is more likely a false cognate than a genuine borrowing from the Romanian language.

Unlike Malay and Indonesian, the Spanish influence on Filipino has influenced the way we address foreigners. Some of these borrowings differentiate between males and females (Indones and Indonesa, Hapones and Haponesa, Benesolano and Benesolana), while others are independent of gender (Indyan, Malay, Tay). If the nationality isn't part of the lexicon, the prefix taga- (meaning "from") is added onto the country name. Someone then from Eritrea, for example, would be taga-Eritrea.

One particularly controversial nationality happens to be that of the Vietnamese. In Filipino, the proper terms are Biyetnames and Biyetnamesa. However, these are mistaken borrowings, as the Spanish term for "Vietnamese" (which is where the term Biyetnames supposedly comes from) is vietnamita. The only language which even comes close to Biyetnames is Romanian (vietnameză), though this is more likely a false cognate than a genuine borrowing from the Romanian language.
Thanks a lot Sky Harbor!

Biyetnames(a) is not the only mistaken borrowing. Indones(a) is too, because in Spanish it's indonesi@. ;)

I thought feminine Vietnamese in Romanian was vietnameazä. But I think vietnamezä is right.

Unlike Malay and Indonesian, the Spanish influence on Filipino has influenced the way we address foreigners. Some of these borrowings differentiate between males and females (Indones and Indonesa, Hapones and Haponesa, Benesolano and Benesolana), while others are independent of gender (Indyan, Malay, Tay). If the nationality isn't part of the lexicon, the prefix taga- (meaning "from") is added onto the country name. Someone then from Eritrea, for example, would be taga-Eritrea.

One particularly controversial nationality happens to be that of the Vietnamese. In Filipino, the proper terms are Biyetnames and Biyetnamesa. However, these are mistaken borrowings, as the Spanish term for "Vietnamese" (which is where the term Biyetnames supposedly comes from) is vietnamita. The only language which even comes close to Biyetnames is Romanian (vietnameză), though this is more likely a false cognate than a genuine borrowing from the Romanian language.

Not seen nor heard in the media nor in public the word "vietnamesa" nor "vietnameza", I guess everybody is using the word "vietnames" in mentioning the men and women in Vietnam.

I guess only the Institute of National Language (if still existing) is the one using the word "vietnamesa" or "vietnameza"

Thanks Animo! I didn't get any notification about its removal.. :/

So you do sometimes say She's (a) Filipino/Pinoy ?

And for Indonesian you have indonesio and indonesia?

Do you have a system comparable to Indonesian (and I believe Chinese too) for nationalities/ethnicities? So person + country/land?

In Indonesian:

orang = person

Orang Indonesia = (an) Indonesian

Inggris = England
Orang Inggris = English(wo)man

Spanyol = Spain
Orang Spanyol = Spaniard

Amerika = USA
Orang Amerika = American

Jepang = Japan
Orang Jepang = Japanese

Meksiko = Mexico
Orang Meksiko = Mexican

etc.

All of them without any distinction according to gender.

I think Filipino languages do put gender in the same way English-speakers would do when describing some of the nationalities.

For example (in Tagalog),

English - Ingles

English lady - Babaeng Ingles

English man - Lalaking Ingles

German - Aleman

German lady -Babaeng Aleman.

German guy - Lalaking Aleman

Greek - Griyego

Greek lady - babaeng Griyego

Greek man - Lalaking Griyego

Indonesian - Indones

Indonesian lady - Babaeng Indones

Indonesian man - Lalaking Indones

Vietnamese - Byetnames or Taga-Vietnam

et al....



By default, 'lalaki' is not indicated oftentimes in a casual conversation because its understood that the speaker refers to a male nationality or to a group of people (regardless of gender of the group) unless indicated that its a female.

Example: Mga Ingles sila.

They are all English.

Not seen nor heard in the media nor in public the word "vietnamesa" nor "vietnameza", I guess everybody is using the word "vietnames" in mentioning the men and women in Vietnam.

I guess only the Institute of National Language (if still existing) is the one using the word "vietnamesa" or "vietnameza"

I think Filipino languages do put gender in the same way English-speakers would do when describing some of the nationalities.

For example (in Tagalog),

English - Ingles

English lady - Babaeng Ingles

English man - Lalaking Ingles

German - Aleman

German lady -Babaeng Aleman.

German guy - Lalaking Aleman

Greek - Griyego

Greek lady - babaeng Griyego

Greek man - Lalaking Griyego

Indonesian - Indones

Indonesian lady - Babaeng Indones

Indonesian man - Lalaking Indones

Vietnamese - Byetnames or Taga-Vietnam

et al....



By default, 'lalaki' is not indicated oftentimes in a casual conversation because its understood that the speaker refers to a male nationality or to a group of people (regardless of gender of the group) unless indicated that its a female.

Example: Mga Ingles sila.

They are all English.

:okay: Thanks a lot y'all!

In Indonesian, Mga Ingles sila would be:
Mereka semua Orang Inggris
literally: they all Person England :)

How would you say She's German and He's German ?
Babaeng Aleman siya and Lalaking Aleman siya respectively? Or just Aleman siya for both cases?


Another question:
How do you pronounce vietnames or Vietnam? With a V sound like in English or with a B sound like in Spanish?
Btw, we Indonesians pronounce it with an F sound. So it sounds like Fietnam.

:okay: Thanks a lot y'all!

In Indonesian, Mga Ingles sila would be:
Mereka semua Orang Inggris
literally: they all Person England :)

How would you say She's German and He's German ?
Babaeng Aleman siya and Lalaking Aleman siya respectively? Or just Aleman siya for both cases?


Another question:
How do you pronounce vietnames or Vietnam? With a V sound like in English or with a B sound like in Spanish?
Btw, we Indonesians pronounce it with an F sound. So it sounds like Fietnam.

When you want to say it by individual, you can specify the male gender if you feel like it:

Siya ay lalaking Aleman at sya ay babaeng Aleman or Siya ay Aleman at siya ay babaeng Aleman will work just fine even with different nationalities like: Siya ay Pranses (He's French) at siya ay babaeng Aleman. If no gender is indicated, its understood to be male unless it's within the context.

About the V and B.

If Vietnamese is used, Filipinos pronounce it as if its English.

If Byetnamis is used, Filipinos will use their native pronunciation, which is B as in boy.

Its the same case with P and F.

Native pronunciations don't have C, F, J, Q, V, X, and Z sounds.

Those letters are only used in special cases, like special or foreign names.

Some of the foreign words or concepts (like some Spanish or English words) can be expressed in its native phonetic equivalents (like Vietnamese for example) but some of them are left untouched and are considered special case names like the one I mentioned above (particularly scientific and technical names). The tricky part is knowing which words can be expressed in native terms and which words are as is.

Filipino languages (particularly Tagalog) are usually spoken with other languages, notably with English mixed in called 'Taglish' and its usage is very prevalent among young people these days.

Thanks again! :okay:
If no gender is indicated, its understood to be male unless it's within the context.
That's a difference to Indonesian. The sentence Dia Orang Prancis doesn't say anything at all if it's a Frenchman or a Frenchwoman. But unlike what many Europeans think, it's not such big of a deal at all. No communication impediment arises just because of that.

And thanks for the info about the alphabet and pronunciation!

I haven't seemed to run out of questions yet. :p

Which one is (grammatically) simpler? Bahasa Sebuano or Bahasa Tagalog?

Ich glaub du überschätzt einfach die Deutschen. ;)

My parents come from Manado/Minahasa.
I was surprised myself to read that it had been Christian for over three centuries and that it had never been islamized during its history. Well, perhaps there are attempts today, but Christianity is soo Manado, or to say it another way, Manado is so Christian.
Fact is, Christianity is an inherent part of Manado/Minahasan culture.


:master:

In the western half of Indonesia, there's also Christian pockets in northern Sumatra (Batak), and here and there in Java.
In Kalimantan, AFAICR the Dayak people were traditionally Christian.

Both loanwords from Sanskrit.

Interesting...I heard that people from Manado like to host parties (festival). They also love to sing like Filipinos. Is it true?

In Indonesia each region or provinces, deaerah or kampung have their own dialects and between them they used their own dialects. They only used Bahasa Indonesia when talking with peoples from different regions, provinces, daerah or kampung, same as in the Philippines.

Yes, I know they have many dialects in different provinces but they use Bahasa Indonesia over the local dialect. The use of national language is very evident and you can hear it in different provinces/cities outside the capital. It is totally different with the Philippines.

Interesting...I heard that people from Manado like to host parties (festival). They also love to sing like Filipinos. Is it true?

Yes, I know they have many dialects in different provinces but they use Bahasa Indonesia over the local dialect. The use of national language is very evident and you can hear it in different provinces/cities outside the capital. It is totally different with the Philippines.

mungkin.... sudah lama saya belum kembali di Indonesia.

Interesting...I heard that people from Manado like to host parties (festival). They also love to sing like Filipinos. Is it true?



Yes, I know they have many dialects in different provinces but they use Bahasa Indonesia over the local dialect. The use of national language is very evident and you can hear it in different provinces/cities outside the capital. It is totally different with the Philippines.
Yes. I was actually quite surprised to find out how strong Sebuano is, and in my eyes the jumble of languages in the Philippines (and in Malaysia too btw) is quite confusing for me as an Indonesian, because no matter how clichéd this might sound, Indonesian language has been one of the most successful means of uniting Indonesians. We may have different ethnicities and religions, but Indonesian is one those things that we all have in common, without really challenging it with another language. Except English perhaps. But even then we don't mix it as much as Malaysians do. We don't come even near to their degree of mixing Malay and English and Chinese which itself is made up of very different dialects (Hokkien, Hakka, Mandarin, etc.).

Yeah. Orang Manado suka bapesta en manyanyi en badansa.
Orang Manado are said to like to host parties and sing and dance.

Btw, pesta and dansa are loanwords from Portuguese festa (Spanish fiesta) and dança (Spanish baila)

In Cebuano language, you can tell if the word pertains to person or language. For example, Sugbuanon is Cebuano word for Cebuano, as a person (or an ethnic group). However, if it is Sinugbuanon, it still means Cebuano, but as a language.

Another example is English. Ingles is a Cebuano word for English, as a person. Iningles is a Cebuano word for English, as language.

Considering the fact that the Philippine languages and English are to a large extent genderless, is there a tendency of losing the gender distinction also in Pilipino or Pinoy?
So like saying "She's a Pinoy/Pilipino/Filipino"?

Is Pinoy a word that is to be avoided? Is it derogatory? The use of the word Pinoy is really a personal choice, many had taken it as a term of endearment in the modern times. But to some, such as myself, I tend to avoid it and would rather use Filipino – the full word. My reason is that in the distant colonial past, it was used as a slur to mean a combination of Pilipino + unggoy (monkey) hence Pin- oy; of course, it's just me & it can also be argued that these are just mere urban legends. But again, the use of that word is really a personal choice, there are no hard and fast rules as to using them in general terms. But Animo is right to say that in polite academic circles, the term is generally avoided too.
^^ I already answered it but the moderator moved it to the Tagalog thread. In academics it is avoided. It is not a proper word in Filipino dictionary. It is just a slang. The proper words are Filipino and Filipina to tell apart a male and female individual.

In Tagalog it is Pilipino and Pilipina. In Filipino language, it is Filipino and Filipina. Also, it is supposed to be the same for the rest of other foreigners: Hapon at Haponesa, Amerikano at Amerikana, Mehikano at Mehikana, Espanyol at Espanyola, etc. (BUT not all are being followed tho) :) de acuerdo contigo, amigo

I haven't seemed to run out of questions yet. :p

Which one is (grammatically) simpler? Bahasa Sebuano or Bahasa Tagalog?

It's hard to explain. Cebuano language is very strong and widely spoken in Central and Southern Philippines or Mindanao. In Cebu City, they even translate our national anthem in Cebuano :) In school, it's only Bahasa Tagalog (officially called Filipino language) that is taught. Cebuano follows some tenses as well.

Because of strong use of regional language against the national language, this creates debates, friction and hot discussions among pinoys. hehehehe. This is the reason why I admire Bahasa Indonesia - widely spoken in all provinces of Indonesia and it is not even the original language of Java where the capital city, Jakarta, is located.

Yes. I was actually quite surprised to find out how strong Sebuano is, and in my eyes the jumble of languages in the Philippines (and in Malaysia too btw) is quite confusing for me as an Indonesian, because no matter how clichéd this might sound, Indonesian language has been one of the most successful means of uniting Indonesians. We may have different ethnicities and religions, but Indonesian is one those things that we all have in common, without really challenging it with another language. Except English perhaps. But even then we don't mix it as much as Malaysians do. We doesn't come even near to their degree of mixing Malay and English and Chinese which itself is made up of very different dialects (Hokkien, Hakka, Mandarin, etc.).

Yeah. Orang Manado suka bapesta en manyanyi en badansa.
Orang Manado are said to like to host parties and sing and dance.

Btw, pesta and dansa are loanwords from Portuguese festa (Spanish fiesta) and dança (Spanish baila)

Nice to know that....like the Filipinos - so many fiestas, love singing, dancing - so many contests from amateur to professional in towns, cities, TV shows, etc.

pesta - Indonesian for fiesta
piyesta - Tagalog
pista - Cebuano

ini - Indonesian "this one"
ini - Waray dialect, "this one"

berita - Indonesian for "news"
balita - Tagalog

mungkin.... sudah lama saya belum kembali di Indonesia.

Ya betul. Bahasa Indonesia dipakai seluruh nusantara. :)

^^ The word "fiesta" in Tagalog is pista. Never have I heard it as piyesta. Likewise, ini is used in certain dialects of Tagalog, like the Marinduque dialect.

Some of the foreign words or concepts (like some Spanish or English words) can be expressed in its native phonetic equivalents (like Vietnamese for example) but some of them are left untouched and are considered special case names like the one I mentioned above (particularly scientific and technical names). The tricky part is knowing which words can be expressed in native terms and which words are as is.

And this is why Taglish is so strong. In fact, lots of scientific and technical concepts can be translated into Filipino. However, as a people, we are linguistically lazy, and we prefer to use shorter English terms that longer Filipino ones.

In Cebuano language, you can tell if the word pertains to person or language. For example, Sugbuanon is Cebuano word for Cebuano, as a person (or an ethnic group). However, if it is Sinugbuanon, it still means Cebuano, but as a language.

Another example is English. Ingles is a Cebuano word for English, as a person. Iningles is a Cebuano word for English, as language.
That's interesting. So German language is Aleman and a German person is Alinman? Indonesian language Indones and an Indonesian person Inindones?

The use of the word Pinoy is really a personal choice, many had taken it as a term of endearment in the modern times. But to some, such as myself, I tend to avoid it and would rather use Filipino – the full word. My reason is that in the distant colonial past, it was used as a slur to mean a combination of Pilipino + unggoy (monkey) hence Pin- oy; of course, it's just me & it can also be argued that these are just mere urban legends. But again, the use of that word is really a personal choice, there are no hard and fast rules as to using them in general terms. But Animo is right to say that in polite academic circles, the term is generally avoided too.
de acuerdo contigo, amigo
Grazias!
Is there a preference for the use of P (Pilipino) over F (Filipino)? Or are they more or less equal?
In Indonesian the use of P instead of F/V is common in casual speech, but tends to be avoided in more formal contexts. Although in some words the spelling with P is not considered that unusual, e.g. Nopember and Pebruari instead of November and Februari (the months).

It's hard to explain. Cebuano language is very strong and widely spoken in Central and Southern Philippines or Mindanao. In Cebu City, they even translate our national anthem in Cebuano :) In school, it's only Bahasa Tagalog (officially called Filipino language) that is taught. Cebuano follows some tenses as well.

Because of strong use of regional language against the national language, this creates debates, friction and hot discussions among pinoys. hehehehe. This is the reason why I admire Bahasa Indonesia - widely spoken in all provinces of Indonesia and it is not even the original language of Java where the capital city, Jakarta, is located.

balita - Tagalog

Ya betul. Bahasa Indonesia dipakai seluruh nusantara. :)
I think the tenses is one of the reason why Indonesian is relatively easy. We basically have no tenses.

Balita means child(ren) under five years in Indonesian. It's an abbrevation of Bawah lima tahun.

^^ The word "fiesta" in Tagalog is pista. Never have I heard it as piyesta. Likewise, ini is used in certain dialects of Tagalog, like the Marinduque dialect.

I hear piyesta in Metro Manila...or I could be wrong. I agree, the correct word should be pista.



I think the tenses is one of the reason why Indonesian is relatively easy. We basically have no tenses.

Balita means child(ren) under five years in Indonesian. It's an abbrevation of Bawah lima tahun.

tahun is taon in Tagalog, so close.

I haven't seemed to run out of questions yet. :p

Which one is (grammatically) simpler? Bahasa Sebuano or Bahasa Tagalog?

bahasa sebuano

coz most sebuano affixes don't mess up the root word

ex:
tagalog = kain (rootword) + um (infix) = k/um/ain = he/she eats
sebuano = ni (prefix) + kaon (rootword) = ni/kaon = he/she eats

tahun is taon in Tagalog, so close.
And lima is lima. Identical. :)

We have a joke about Peru having five capitals, but I forgot how it goes. :/

bahasa sebuano

coz most sebuano affixes don't mess up the root word

ex:
tagalog = kain (rootword) + um (infix) = k/um/ain = he/she eats
sebuano = ni (prefix) + kaon (rootword) = ni/kaon = he/she eats
I think that is also one of the thing that differentiates Indonesian and Philippine languages.
Indonesian does have infixes, but I think they serve other purposes and not as "productive" as in, say, Bahasa Tagalog.


Question:
Is kumain not an infinitive? Does kain alone have a meaning?
In my father's dialect, eat is humaan.


Btw, Wind Shear had just mentioned an interesting infix in Bahasa Sebuano: -in-

In Cebuano language, you can tell if the word pertains to person or language. For example, Sugbuanon is Cebuano word for Cebuano, as a person (or an ethnic group). However, if it is Sinugbuanon, it still means Cebuano, but as a language.

Another example is English. Ingles is a Cebuano word for English, as a person. Iningles is a Cebuano word for English, as language.

I hear piyesta in Metro Manila...or I could be wrong. I agree, the correct word should be pista.

tahun is taon in Tagalog, so close.

In Tagalog region like my hometown in Bulacan, it is okey to say Pista, Piyesta, or Fiesta, it sounds all the same.

But it is written Pista in Tagalog or Fiesta if written in English.

In Tagalog region like my hometown in Bulacan, it is okey to say Pista, Piyesta, or Fiesta, it sounds all the same.

But it is written Pista in Tagalog or Fiesta if written in English.
In English there's also feast. ;)

In English there's also feast. ;)


Actually Fiesta is Spanish-origin word and also used as English word for describing a town's religious celebration / feast.

Actually Fiesta is Spanish-origin word and also used as English word for describing a town's religious celebration / feast.
I know. :)
In English there's a good number of word pairs that eventually have the same root. Usually one is through French. I can't think of any right now. But let's concentrate on Austronesian now. ;)

Face

muka = Indonesian
mukha = Tagalog

^^ Thx! You reminded me of ear.

Bahasa Filipina: tainga
Bahasa Indonesia: telinga
Bahasa Manado: talinga

M = Bahasa Manado

chew
P: nguyain
I: ngunyah, from kunyah

swallow
P: tulon, tunlon
I: telan
M: talán

laugh :D
P: tawa, katawa
I: tawa, ketawa

reef
P: kagaangan
I: karang

stone
P: bato
I: batu

spit
Bahasa Sebuano: luwa
Bahasa Tagalog: d(um)ura, l(um)ura
Bahasa Indonesia: ludah


Thanks Amendercabal2! You made me understand how to recognize the basic word in Bahasa Tagalog. :okay:

bahasa sebuano

coz most sebuano affixes don't mess up the root word

ex:
tagalog = kain (rootword) + um (infix) = k/um/ain = he/she eats
sebuano = ni (prefix) + kaon (rootword) = ni/kaon = he/she eats

silver
P: pilak
I: perak

bahasa sebuano

coz most sebuano affixes don't mess up the root word

ex:
tagalog = kain (rootword) + um (infix) = k/um/ain = he/she eats
sebuano = ni (prefix) + kaon (rootword) = ni/kaon = he/she eats

I've just read a bit about Tagalog grammar.
It's waay more complicated than Indonesian. :shifty:

swallow
P: tulon, tunlon
I: telan
M: talán

swallow
P (tagalog) = lunok
P (sebuano) = tulon, tunlon

Tagalog
baho / mabahu - bad smell
unggoy - monkey
mata - eyes
may kaya - rich

Indonesia
bau - bad smell
monyet - monkey
orang kaya - rich

cinta monyet = monkey love, false love
kranjang - pineapple
mata - eyes
mata kranjang - playboy

Question:
Is kumain not an infinitive? Does kain alone have a meaning?
Infinitive:

gusto kong kumain = I want to eat


Imperative:

kumain ka! = (you) eat!
kain tayo = let's eat


Past:

kumain kami = we ate

Tagalog
baho / mabahu - bad smell
unggoy - monkey
mata - eyes
may kaya - rich

Indonesia
bau - bad smell
monyet - monkey
orang kaya - rich

cinta monyet = monkey love, false love
kranjang - pineapple
mata - eyes
mata kranjang - playboy
Thanks!
How do you say good smell or smells good in Bahasa Filipina [=Philippine language(s)]?


orang kaya = rich person
Orang Filipina = Philippine person/people
Orang Indonesia = Indonesian person/people

hutan, with the H- often not pronounced = forest

Now you know what orangutan literally means. :)


cinta monyet = teenage love, monkey love.

keranjang = basket
nanas = pineapple


E in Indonesian can be read like in Spanish or as a schwa, in the case of keranjang, it's a schwa, and it does end up sounding more like kranjang. :)

Infinitive:

gusto kong kumain = I want to eat


Imperative:

kumain ka! = (you) eat!
kain tayo = let's eat


Past:

kumain kami = we ate
Thank you!

I've just read a bit about Tagalog grammar.
It's waay more complicated than Indonesian. :shifty:

Yes, it is a complicated language to learn. Just like I have posted a long time ago here. We need to go back to our Spanish literature because we have plenty of it already being studied and actually compiled compared to English. I mean I can give you links to Spanish-Tagalog dictionaries and books written by Filipino and Spanish scholars that are being forgotten. Currently, if one learns Tagalog it is hard because the books (in English) are really badly made in my opinion. :nuts:

Tagalog literature; a historico-critical study.
Alip, Eufronio Melo, 1904-
Manila: U. S. T. Press, 1930 [i. e, 1931] (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=AEG8734.0001.001)

Arte poético Tagalo / por el padre Francisco Bencuchillo.
Bencuchillo, Francisco, 1710-1776.
[Manila: Imp. de la Vuida de M. Minuesa de los Rios], 1895. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ADP7419.0001.001)

A grammar of the Tagálog language, the chief native idiom of the Philippine Islands,
Blake, Frank Ringgold, 1875-
New Haven, Conn.: American oriental society, 1925. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=AGY9509.0001.001)

Nueva gramática tagalog, teórico-práctica;
Coria, Joaquín de.
Madrid: Impr. de J. A. García, 1872. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=AEG2107.0001.001)

Compendio del arte de la lengua Tagala / por el Padre Gaspar de S. Agustin.
Gaspar de S. Agustin, 1650-1724.
Manila: Imprenta de Amigos del Pais, 1879. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ABV9071.0001.001)

Lecciones de gramática hispano-tagala / compuesta por José Hevia Campomanes.
Hevia Campomanes, José, 1841-
Manila: Tip. de la Univ. de Sto. Tomas, 1930. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ACL3264.0001.001)

The Tagalog language : a comprehensive grammatical treatise adapted to self-instruction and particularly designed for use of those engaged in government service, or in business or trade in the Philippines / by Constantino Lendoyro.
Lendoyro, Constantino.
Manila, P.I.: J. Fajardo, 1909. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=AAX2353.0001.001)

A handbook and grammar of the Tagalog language. By First Lieut. W. E. W. MacKinlay.
MacKinlay, William E. W. (William Egbert Wheeler), 1870-, United States. War Dept.
Washington: Gov't print. off., 1905 [1907] (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ABS5202.0001.001)

Yes, it is a complicated language to learn. Just like I have posted a long time ago here. We need to go back to our Spanish literature because we have plenty of it already being studied and actually compiled compared to English. I mean I can give you links to Spanish-Tagalog dictionaries and books written by Filipino and Spanish scholars that are being forgotten. Currently, if one learns Tagalog it is hard because the books (in English) for it are really badly made in my opinion. :nuts:
Me gustaría. Gracias de antemano! :)

Tagalog

may kaya - rich

Indonesia
orang kaya - rich



Good....didn't notice this before. :)

nose:
I: hidung
P: ilong

xolang: There is a word in Bahasa Indonesia "lagi". In Bahasa Cebuano, "lagi" is commonly used, too. The meaning is somewhat related but not the same.

Me gustaría. Gracias de antemano! :)

¡Aquí hay más! :D

Diccionario Tag'alog-Hispano: por Pedro Serrano Laktaw.
Serrano Laktaw, Pedro., American Philosophical Society. Library.
Manila: Islas Filipinas, 1914. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=APZ7330.0001.001)

Estudios gramaticales sobre la lengua Tagálog / por Pedro Serrano Laktaw.
Serrano Laktaw, Pedro.
Santa Cruz, Manila: Impr. de Juan Fajardo, 1929. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=ABR1013.0001.001)

Ag̃ aklat ng̃ Tagalog: kaunaunahag̃ aklat na dalawang wika na sumusuysoy sa Pilolohia at Panitikang Tagalog / nina Jose N. Sevilla & Paul R. Verzosa.
Sevilla, Jose N., 1880-1946., Verzosa, Paul R., American Philosophical Society. Library.
Maynila: Imprenta y Librerias de J. Martinez, 1923. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=APZ7296.0001.001)

Gramática na isinauicang Tagalog nang sa Castilâ sa caparáanang mg̃a tanóng at sag̃ót caparis nang sa uliráng guinaua: ni Don Arisclo F. Vallin at Bustillo ; ito-i caya Tinagalog nasa-T inilaan ni Don Z. Villamarin.
Vallín y Bustillo, Acisclo F., 1835-1904., Villamarin, Zacarias., American Philosophical Society. Library.
Manila: La Industrial, 1886. (http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=philamer;cc=philamer;q1=lengua%20tagala;rgn=full%20text;view=toc;idno=APS6593.0001.001)

How about Iberian (Portuguese & Spanish) loanwords in Philippine and Indonesian/Malay languages?

P = Philippine
I = Indonesian/Malay
Po = Portuguese
S = Spanish

Note
Portuguese has a much more complicated phonology than Spanish
1. A can be pronounced as open A or schwa or something inbetween
2. O can be pronounced as open O or U or something inbetween
Final -O is generally pronounced as -U
3. Intervocalic -S- sounds like Z


table
P, S: mesa
I: meja
Po: mesa, see point 3. about Portuguese phonology

shirt
P: kamisa
S: camisa
I: kemeja, first E is a schwa sound
Po: camisa, see points 1. and 3. above

flag
P, S, Bahasa Manado: bandera
I: bendera, first E is a schwa
Po: bandeira, see point 1. above

butter
P: mantika (=oil)
S: manteca (=butter, oil)
I: mentega, first E a schwa
Bahasa Manado: mantega
Po: manteiga, see point 1.

shoe
P: sapatos
S: zapato
I: sepatu
Bahasa Manado: capatu (c = ch sound)
Po: sapato, see point 2. above

Saturday
P: Sabado
Po, S: Sábado, sounding quite different in each language. See point 2.
I: Sabtu

Sunday
P: Dominggo, Linggo
Po, S: Domingo, see point 2.
I: Minggu

Good....didn't notice this before. :)

nose:
I: hidung
P: ilong

xolang: There is a word in Bahasa Indonesia "lagi". In Bahasa Cebuano, "lagi" is commonly used, too. The meaning is somewhat related but not the same.
Thanks!

Lagi in Indonesian can mean:
1) again
2) something like English -ing. I think it's called progressive tense.
So:
lagi minum = (... am/are/is/was/were/...) drinking
lagi makan = ... eating
lagi (mem)baca = ... reading
lagi tidur = ... sleeping
But:
minum lagi = drink again
makan lagi = eat again
baca lagi = read again
tidur lagi = sleep again

¡Aquí hay más! :D
Gracias mucha!


Btw, fart :D
P: otot, utot
I: kentut
Bahasa Manado: konto

Ball is bola in Bahasa Filipina, Bahasa Indonesia, Bahasa Manado and Bahasa Portugis. In Bahasa Spanyol it's pelota. Perhaps in Old Spanish it was bola..?

Note
Portuguese has a much more complicated phonology than Spanish
1. A can be pronounced as open A or schwa or something inbetween
2. O can be pronounced as open O or U or something inbetween
Final -O is generally pronounced as -U
3. Intervocalic -S- sounds like Z
wheat
P, S, Po: trigo, see point 2. about the Portuguese phonology
I: terigu, with E being a schwa sound

Note
Indonesian sometimes adds a schwa, written with an E, between two consonants.
Prancis (France) is sometimes written as Perancis
terigu (wheat) often sounds more like trigu
perahu (boat) often sounds more like praú

Thanks!

Lagi in Indonesian can mean:
1) again
2) something like English -ing. I think it's called progressive tense.
So:
lagi minum = (... am/are/is/was/were/...) drinking
lagi makan = ... eating
lagi (mem)baca = ... reading
lagi tidur = ... sleeping
But:
minum lagi = drink again
makan lagi = eat again
baca lagi = read again
tidur lagi = sleep again




Lagi in Cebuano means that's why for example: Lagí pirmi ni siya ug samok sa ako. / That's why s/he's always bothering me.

Or Ma-ó lagí... : that's why...

Ball is bola in Bahasa Filipina, Bahasa Indonesia, Bahasa Manado and Bahasa Portugis. In Bahasa Spanyol it's pelota. Perhaps in Old Spanish it was bola..?

Bola still means ball. It is anything that is round basically or non-hollowed round object. But pelota is used in sports tho. :)

I've just read a bit about Tagalog grammar.
It's waay more complicated than Indonesian. :shifty:

You have to understand the semantic patterns of usage more than the grammar of Tagalog unlike English where grammatical syntax is more emphasized and semantics is secondary. Once you understand how the semantics work in Tagalog, everything seems to fall in place without even you being aware of the grammar and word placements. Ironically, the faster way of learning it is using Taglish that is, you take an English word and use Tagalog rules of conjugation by attaching those notorious affixes on them. Once you feel comfortable, you can try the Tagalog verbs with ease.

This is by far the easiest sentences in Tagalog in both question and answer:

In an elevator Person A asked person B if its going down:

Person A: Bababa ba? (Is it going down?)

Person B: Bababa (Yes it will)

I'm not kidding. :lol:

It's all semantics.

Thanks!

Lagi in Indonesian can mean:
1) again
2) something like English -ing. I think it's called progressive tense.
So:
baca = read

Btw, fart :D
P: otot, utot
I: kentut
Bahasa Manado: konto

Baca (read) = basa for Philippines (Cebuano, Tagalog, other dialects)

kentut = you have to change two vowels there and the meaning in Tagalog becomes "censored". XXX :lol:

Baca (read) = basa for Philippines (Cebuano, Tagalog, other dialects)

kentut = you have to change two vowels there and the meaning in Tagalog becomes "censored". XXX :lol:
Thanks.

Well, in Indonesian there's also ngentot, kentot, entot, meaning "fcuk", and then there's kontol and buntut, meaning "dcik".

Poo in Indonesian is tahi, again, the H not pronounced, so it sounds more like taí (Bahasa Sebuano: taé). Another word for that is berak.


We're talking about linguistic kinship, and it's actually interesting that "vulgar" words remain similar across languages that are otherwise quite different.

Thanks.

Well, in Indonesian there's also ngentot, kentot, entot, meaning "fcuk", and then there's kontol and buntut, meaning "dcik".

Poo in Indonesian is tahi, again, the H not pronounced, so it sounds more like taí (Bahasa Sebuano: taé). Another word for that is berak.


We're talking about linguistic kinship, and it's actually interesting that "vulgar" words remain similar across languages that are otherwise quite different.

:lol: it's kantot in Tagalog = fuck.

buntot in Tagalog = tail

It's interesting that:

susu = milk in Indonesian
suso = breast in P

Lagi in Cebuano means that's why for example: Lagí pirmi ni siya ug samok sa ako. / That's why s/he's always bothering me.

Or Ma-ó lagí... : that's why...



Bola still means ball. It is anything that is round basically or non-hollowed round object. But pelota is used in sports tho. :)
Thanks!

In Indonesian there is a similar use of lagi.
It's hard to explain but I'll try.
For instance Arjuna did something stupid, in spite of having been warned, then someone can comment by saying "Lagi!" or "Lagian!" with a certain intonation.
In a sense, you could actually translate it with "That's why".

You have to understand the semantic patterns of usage more than the grammar of Tagalog unlike English where grammatical syntax is more emphasized and semantics is secondary. Once you understand how the semantics work in Tagalog, everything seems to fall in place without even you being aware of the grammar and word placements. Ironically, the faster way of learning it is using Taglish that is, you take an English word and use Tagalog rules of conjugation by attaching those notorious affixes on them. Once you feel comfortable, you can try the Tagalog verbs with ease.

This is by far the easiest sentences in Tagalog in both question and answer:

In an elevator Person A asked person B if its going down:

Person A: Bababa ba? (Is it going down?)

Person B: Bababa (Yes it will)

I'm not kidding. :lol:

It's all semantics.
Thanks for the tip! :)

You reminded me of:

down
P: ibaba
I: bawah

street
P: dalan, daan
I: jalan

:lol: it's kantot in Tagalog = fuck.

buntot in Tagalog = tail

It's interesting that:

susu = milk in Indonesian
suso = breast in P
Susu also means breast and buntut also means tail in Indonesian. :)

The E in kentut (fart) is a schwa, whereas the E in kentot (fcuk) is like Spanish E.

The female genital is called memek in Indonesian, and sprm is peju or mani.

There's also another word for dcik I just remembered. It's titit. It was used more often when I was a child.

race
P: lumba
I: lomba

Lumba-lumba means dolphin in Indonesian.

susu = milk in Indonesian
suso = breast in P

You're referring to suso, without the accent. The word susó, with stress on the final syllable, means "snail".

Susu also means breast and buntut also means tail in Indonesian. :)

The E in kentut (fart)
There's also another word for dcik I just remembered. It's titit. It was used more often when I was a child.

penis is "titi" in Tagalog, commonly used word hehehe

You're referring to suso, without the accent. The word susó, with stress on the final syllable, means "snail".

yes, correct but i think we pronounce the same with Indonesian/Javanese.

I = kopi susu
T = kapeng may gatas

I = kopi itam
E = black coffee

I = nasi
T = kanin
E = rice

I = nasi goreng
E = fried rice

I = goreng kangkong = fried kangkong
I = mee goreng = fried noodles
I = mee kuah = noodle soup

That's interesting. So German language is Aleman and a German person is Alinman? Indonesian language Indones and an Indonesian person Inindones?


In case of Aleman (German as person), its Inaleman (German as language). In case of Indones (orang Indonesia), am not sure if it is Inindones or Inindonesyo (found in Cebuano Wiki).

I = nasi goreng
E = fried rice

Unlike Indonesian and Malay (nasi goreng means the same thing in both languages), Tagalog has only one word for fried rice: sinangag.

Unlike Indonesian and Malay (nasi goreng means the same thing in both languages), Tagalog has only one word for fried rice: sinangag.

And for Cebuano: sinaglag. :)

race
P: lumba
I: lomba

Lumba-lumba means dolphin in Indonesian.

race
P (tagalog) = unahan/karera
P (sebuano) = lumba

lumba-lumba in sebuano means fat

Despite Cebuano (CEB) and Tagalog (TGL) has some similarities, it has a good number of false friends.

By definition, false friends are pairs of word in two languages or dialects (or letters in two alphabets) that look and/or sound similar, but differ in meaning.

asa
TGL: hope
CEB: where

balak
TGL: a plan
CEB: a poem

baril
TGL: a firearm
CEB: a very large steel container

baybay
TGL: to spell
CEB: shore

bilin
TGL: to share something
CEB: to left something or someone

bitaw
TGL: let go of something
CEB: "Oh yes", "agreed"

Thus the joke: A Cebuano and a Tagalog carrying a heavy refrigerator. A Tagalog said "Ang bigat no (Isn't it heavy) ?" and a Cebuano replied, "Bitaw!" Thus, a Tagalog lets the fridge go, pinning a Cebuano's foot.

bitin
TGL: short or hanging
CEB: a snake or a python

bukid
TGL: field
CEB: mountain

dampa
TGL: a hut.
CEB: a game using hands and rubber bands

diri
TGL: loathing.
CEB: here, a demonstrative pronoun

dukot
TGL: to snatch, kidnap or seize unexpectedly
CEB: burnt rice

gamot
TGL: medicine
CEB: roots of plants

ginhawa
TGL: comfort or comfortable
CEB: to breathe

hawa
TGL: to infect or is contagious
CEB: go away or leave

hilo
TGL: becoming nauseous
CEB: poison

hilom
TGL: his means to heal
CEB: this means quiet. Ex. Paghilom! - Shut up!

hubad
TGL: naked.
CEB: to translate

igat
TGL: an eel
CEB: flirt and showoff

ilog
TGL: this means river
CEB: grabbing against ones will

kamot
TGL: to scratch
CEB: hands

kumot
TGL: blanket
CEB: to crumple

langgam
TGL: an ant
CEB: a bird

Thus the joke in Cebuano: Ang langgam sa ilaha (referring to Tagalog language) nagkamang (crawls), sa atoa naglupad (flies).

libang
TGL: do leisurely things
CEB: to defecate :lol:

libog
TGL: lust :lol:
CEB: to be confused

Thus the joke: makalibog - Either you are pro-pervert or confusing.

lingkod
TGL: to serve or service
CEB: to sit down

lipat
TGL: to transfer.
CEB: mislook

lungsod
TGL: a city
CEB: a community or town

Apparently Cebuanos has a higher standard on how to create a city. :D

luya
TGL: ginger
CEB: weak

paa
TGL: a foot
CEB: a leg

palit
TGL: change or exchange
CEB: buy

panakot
TGL: some object that will scare people off like a scaecrow or bugbear
CEB: a spice or ingredient

pila
TGL: to fall in line
CEB: how much or how many

sadya
TGL: one's purpose or mission.
CEB: rejoice, cheer or lively.

sagad
TGL: to the limit, or sunk to the hilt
CEB: currently or likely.

sakop
TGL: jurisdiction or domination
CEB: a member or a henchman

sama
TGL: to join or to go with
CEB: same or similar, or to resemble

sayo
TGL: short cut for "sa iyo" which means yours
CEB: early

siga
TGL: a goon
CEB: glowing or a fire

sugo
TGL: to be one's ambassador or representative
CEB: to order or to decree or to mandate

tabi
TGL: on the side or beside
CEB: to talk

tambal
TGL: to be paired up
CEB: medicine or remedy

upa
TGL: rent
CEB: mating :lol:

Thus the joke: A Cebuano couple makes noise during lovemaking in the middle of the night inside the rented apartment. It was so noisy that a Tagalog landlord shouted "Tumahimik kayo! May tao naguupahan dito!", but a male Cebuano retorted sarcastically "Pangauli namo diha, nagupa pa mi!"

usap
TGL: to talk
CEB: to chew

utong
TGL: nipple
CEB: to hold one’s breath

More false friends list: http://www.ampedasia.com/forums/false-friends-among-philippine-languages-t-9675.html

baril
TGL: a firearm
CEB: a very large steel container

baybay
TGL: to spell
CEB: shore

bukid
TGL: field
CEB: mountain

Not exactly. Baril, baybay and bukid also mean "barrel" (hence bariles ng langis and other examples), "coast" and "mountainous area" respectively in Tagalog. Usage in this case is dependent on context.

lungsod
TGL: a city
CEB: a community or town

Apparently Cebuanos has a higher standard on how to create a city. :D

And like dakbayan (dakilang bayan, "great town") and its affiliated terms dakbanwa (Hiligaynon) and dak-ili (Ilokano) can do better. ;)

sayo
TGL: short cut for "sa iyo" which means yours
CEB: early

In this case, sa iyo is properly written as sa 'yo (NOT as one word), with stress on the final. Sayo, as a single word and with stress on the penultimate, may mean something else, but I'm not sure.

[QUOTE=Sky Harbor;43000752]Not exactly. Baril, baybay and bukid also mean "barrel" (hence bariles ng langis and other examples), "coast" and "mountainous area" respectively in Tagalog. Usage in this case is dependent on context.

QUOTE]

The Cebuano word "baril" for gun and "bariles" for drum were actually English origins.


bar·rel [bárrəl]
noun (plural bar·rels)

1. large cask: a cylindrical container with a flat top and bottom, used to store liquids

2. quantity in barrel: the amount held by a barrel

3. measurements unit of volume in oil industry: a unit of liquid volume used in the oil industry, usually taken to be 42 U.S. gallons (approximately 159 liters)

4. measurements unit of volume in brewing industry: a unit of liquid volume used in the brewing industry, equal to 43 U.S. gallons (approximately 164 liters)

5. arms tube-shaped part of gun: the tube-shaped part of a gun through which bullets are fired

Microsoft® Encarta® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

^^ The word "fiesta" in Tagalog is pista. Never have I heard it as piyesta. Likewise, ini is used in certain dialects of Tagalog, like the Marinduque dialect.

IN Laguna and batangas area, they call it piyesta.

Nice thread, very imformative.

You're referring to suso, without the accent. The word susó, with stress on the final syllable, means "snail".
Another aspect where Philippine is more difficult than Indonesian. In Indonesian the stress doesn't really matter. After all, it differs depending on where you come from.

I = goreng kangkong = fried kangkong
I = mee goreng = fried noodles
I = mee kuah = noodle soup
It's kangkung goreng, and mee is usually spelled as mie in Indonesian. ;)

In case of Aleman (German as person), its Inaleman (German as language). In case of Indones (orang Indonesia), am not sure if it is Inindones or Inindonesyo (found in Cebuano Wiki).
Thanks!

Unlike Indonesian and Malay (nasi goreng means the same thing in both languages), Tagalog has only one word for fried rice: sinangag.
Wow, an extra word for fried rice!
As I mentioned before, in Indonesian:
padi = rice on the field
beras = uncooked rice, in Philippine bigas(?)
nasi = cooked rice
bubur = porridge, basically overcooked rice
ketan = a sort of sticky rice

lumba-lumba in sebuano means fat
Very interesting to know. :)

wet
P: basa
I: basah; again, the H is barely audible. Through this thread I'm starting to realize how often we "drop" the H in Indonesian. :sleepy:

As I mentioned before, in Indonesian:
padi = rice on the field
beras = uncooked rice, in Philippine bigas(?)
nasi = cooked rice
bubur = porridge, basically overcooked rice
ketan = a sort of sticky rice

In Filipino:

rice crop = palay
uncooked rice = bigas
cooked rice = kanin
porridge = lugaw
sticky rice = malagkit na kanin (malagkit means sticky)
day-old rice = bahaw
burnt rice = tutong

In Filipino:

rice crop = palay
uncooked rice = bigas
cooked rice = kanin
porridge = lugaw
sticky rice = malagkit na kanin (malagkit means sticky)
day-old rice = bahaw
burnt rice = tutong
:okay:

Palay and bigas are probably related with padi and beras.

There's also a word for burnt rice, but I can't think of it right now. I believe it's something with ker-.

cooked rice = kanin

Kanin is used to specifically refer to steamed rice. The word for fried rice is sinangag, as I mentioned earlier. Kakanin on the other hand refers to desserts made from rice or its byproducts.

The Cebuano word "baril" for gun and "bariles" for drum were actually English origins.

Not quite. The Spanish word for barrel is barril.

^^ You are correct. :wink2:

It is also interesting to note that "to shoot" can be barrila! or fusila! in Cebuano. :)

Fusilar = To shoot, execute by firing squad

One can also use the following to describe a gun: fusil (pusil), pistola, and barril (baril)

^^ At least now I know what gipusil means. :D

In Filipino:

rice crop = palay
uncooked rice = bigas
cooked rice = kanin
porridge = lugaw
sticky rice = malagkit na kanin (malagkit means sticky)
day-old rice = bahaw
burnt rice = tutong

In Cebuano:

rice crop = humay
uncooked rice = bugas
cooked rice = kan-on
porridge = lugaw
sticky rice = pilit - pilit is a Cebuano adjective for sticky.
day-old rice = bahaw
burnt rice = dukot - not only refer to rice, it can be referred to fried stuff (fish, port, beef, egg).

Another aspect where Philippine is more difficult than Indonesian. In Indonesian the stress doesn't really matter. After all, it differs depending on where you come from.


Another good thing about Bahasa Indonesia. If it is spoken with a different accent like those from the East or from Sumatra, the Jakartans don't make fun of it. It's different here in the Philippines, some (not all) Filipinos make fun of those people who are not Tagalog speakers because of their accent. I find this silly.

"kita" is a portmanteau pronoun. it means "I + you".

e.g.

mahal kita = I love you

mahal = love
kita = I + you


^^
that is probably the best
explanation of the word kita.

you can't use "kita" when referring
to someone without somehow referring
to self.

kita is indeed "I + you" which is a pronoun
with "I" being the doer of the verb
and "you" as the receiver.

example: Papatayin kita.

kita: I - doer of the verb papatayin
kita: you - receiver of the verb papatayin

Thanks!
hutan, with the H- often not pronounced = forest


bahasa sebuano also has "utan" which means any dark yellowish or moderate olive green colored leaves i.e. green leafy vegetables

bubur = porridge, basically overcooked rice


in bahasa sebuano i think its "bulgur"

Another good thing about Bahasa Indonesia. If it is spoken with a different accent like those from the East or from Sumatra, the Jakartans don't make fun of it. It's different here in the Philippines, some (not all) Filipinos make fun of those people who are not Tagalog speakers because of their accent. I find this silly.

Wouldn't it be ironic if those are the same people butchering Tagalog with their Taglish? :nuts:

Wouldn't it be ironic if those are the same people butchering Tagalog with their Taglish? :nuts:

:lol:

i found a new one:

nyamuk: mosquitoe Indonesian
lamok: Filipino

^^ :okay:

I found out that church in Bahasa Filipina is simbahan.

In Indonesian, sembah means worship or adore (God or a king).

persembahan = dedication, also something you give in the church, like money, or a song.

sembahyang (=pray) comes from sembah + yang, meaning something like worship/adore the (one).

A more neutral word for pray is berdo'a, from the root word do'a (=prayer).


Another thing

I: putus asa = desperate, broken hope
P: asa = hope ?

pray = manalangin
prayer = panalangin
praying = nananalangin
prayed = nanalangin (one less "na" from the verb praying)

Quote from Wind Shear. Post #194.


Despite Cebuano (CEB) and Tagalog (TGL) has some similarities, it has a good number of false friends.

By definition, false friends are pairs of word in two languages or dialects (or letters in two alphabets) that look and/or sound similar, but differ in meaning.

baybay Perhaps related to pantai (shore) in Indonesian
TGL: to spell
CEB: shore

bukid In Indonesian, bukit = hill
TGL: field
CEB: mountain

dampa There's also a game called dampa in Indonesian
TGL: a hut.
CEB: a game using hands and rubber bands

lipat Lipat = fold in Indonesian
TGL: to transfer.
CEB: mislook

luya In Indonesian, lelah = tired, weak
TGL: ginger
CEB: weak

paa In Indonesian, paha = upper leg
TGL: a foot
CEB: a leg

sama In Indonesian, sama = same. In Swedish samma. ;)
TGL: to join or to go with
CEB: same or similar, or to resemble

sugo In Indonesian, suruh has the same meaning as in Bahasa Sebuano
TGL: to be one's ambassador or representative
CEB: to order or to decree or to mandate

tabi In Indonesian, tapi = but
TGL: on the side or beside
CEB: to talk

tambal In Indonesian, tambal = repair, usually a tire
TGL: to be paired up
CEB: medicine or remedy

usap In Indonesian, usap = caress :)
TGL: to talk
CEB: to chew

fear
P: takot, katakutan
I: takut, ketakutan
Bahasa Manado: takó'

buy
P: bili
Bahasa Manado: bilí
I: beli

bahasa sebuano also has "utan" which means any dark yellowish or moderate olive green colored leaves i.e. green leafy vegetables

in bahasa sebuano i think its "bulgur"

that is probably the best
explanation of the word kita.

you can't use "kita" when referring
to someone without somehow referring
to self.

kita is indeed "I + you" which is a pronoun
with "I" being the doer of the verb
and "you" as the receiver.

example: Papatayin kita.

kita: I - doer of the verb papatayin
kita: you - receiver of the verb papatayin

Thank you!

I find the use of kita in Tagalog very interesting.

What does papatayin mean?

what is that kapangpangan greeting that's on a tarp everywhere you go?

^^ :okay:

I found out that church in Bahasa Filipina is simbahan.

In Indonesian, sembah means worship or adore (God or a king).

persembahan = dedication, also something you give in the church, like money, or a song.

sembahyang (=pray) comes from sembah + yang, meaning something like worship/adore the (one).

A more neutral word for pray is berdo'a, from the root word do'a (=prayer).


Another thing

I: putus asa = desperate, broken hope
P: asa = hope ?

samba is used also in Tagalog esp. by Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) members, meaning to worship.

Yes, pagasa from the root word asa = hope in Tagalog.

samba is used also in Tagalog esp. by Iglesia ni Cristo (Church of Christ) members, meaning to worship.

Yes, pagasa from the root word asa = hope in Tagalog.
Thanks!

Church in Indonesian is gereja, the first E a schwa, the second one like Spanish E. It often ends up sounding like greja, and it's a loanword from Bahasa Portugis igreja, which I think is related to iglesia in Bahasa Spanyol.

What does papatayin mean?

Means "going to kill," states intent.

Means "going to kill," states intent.
Thanks!

Which leads us to...

kill
P: buno
I: bunuh
;)

more hehehe

potong: cut (I)
putol: cut (P)

^^ You are correct. :wink2:

It is also interesting to note that "to shoot" can be barrila! or fusila! in Cebuano. :)

Fusilar = To shoot, execute by firing squad

One can also use the following to describe a gun: fusil (pusil), pistola, and barril (baril)

fusila in cebuano is pusila. hehehe

Quote from Wind Shear. Post #194.


Despite Cebuano (CEB) and Tagalog (TGL) has some similarities, it has a good number of false friends.

By definition, false friends are pairs of word in two languages or dialects (or letters in two alphabets) that look and/or sound similar, but differ in meaning.

baybay Perhaps related to pantai (shore) in Indonesian
TGL: to spell
CEB: shore

bukid In Indonesian, bukit = hill
TGL: field
CEB: mountain

dampa There's also a game called dampa in Indonesian
TGL: a hut.
CEB: a game using hands and rubber bands

lipat Lipat = fold in Indonesian
TGL: to transfer.
CEB: mislook

luya In Indonesian, lelah = tired, weak
TGL: ginger
CEB: weak

paa In Indonesian, paha = upper leg
TGL: a foot
CEB: a leg

sama In Indonesian, sama = same. In Swedish samma. ;)
TGL: to join or to go with
CEB: same or similar, or to resemble

sugo In Indonesian, suruh has the same meaning as in Bahasa Sebuano
TGL: to be one's ambassador or representative
CEB: to order or to decree or to mandate

tabi In Indonesian, tapi = but
TGL: on the side or beside
CEB: to talk

tambal In Indonesian, tambal = repair, usually a tire
TGL: to be paired up
CEB: medicine or remedy

usap In Indonesian, usap = caress :)
TGL: to talk
CEB: to chew

you know what, im learning this! really! :okay:

IMO, cebuano and indonesian have more similar words and meanings.

you know what, im learning this! really! :okay:

IMO, cebuano and indonesian have more similar words and meanings.
:okay: And it would probably be easier for you because:
1) There are good resources to learn Indonesian.
2) Grammatically Indonesian is relatively easier than Bahasa Filipina.

twins
P: kambal
I: kembar




:horse:

IMO, cebuano and indonesian have more similar words and meanings.

If I'm not mistaken, Tagalog and Cebuano are not the languages sharing the highest level of lexical similarity between it and Malay and Indonesian. I believe this title goes to another language, but I forgot which one.

twins
P: kambal
I: kembar
:horse:Since the E in kembar is a schwa, it actually sounds very similar to kambal! :okay:

If I'm not mistaken, Tagalog and Cebuano are not the languages sharing the highest level of lexical similarity between it and Malay and Indonesian. I believe this title goes to another language, but I forgot which one.
It would be interesting to know which.

Thank you!

I find the use of kita in Tagalog very interesting.

What does papatayin mean?

papatayin kita = in English " I will kill you "

papatayin kita - saya membunuh kamu (bahasa indonesia)

or

papatayin - kematian (bahasa indonesia)

kill
P: buno
I: bunuh
;)

kill
P (tagalog) = kitil
P (sebuano) = buno

pray = manalangin
prayer = panalangin
praying = nananalangin
prayed = nanalangin (one less "na" from the verb praying)


in cebuano:

pray = ampo
prayer = pag-ampo
praying = naga-ampo
payed = nag-ampo

kill
P (tagalog) = kitil
P (sebuano) = buno

another term for kill is patyon from the root word patay w/c means dead its more "to kill"

papatayin - kematian,

In Cebuano: kamationun (going to die), namatian (dead already), namatay (dead)

:)

Hello!

Here are some similarities me and some Philippine friends found out about our languages (I'm Indonesian).
Some of the Philippine words are Cebuano, others are Tagalog.

I = Indonesian
P = Philippine

wind
I: angin
P : hangin

eye
mata

five
lima

lip(s)
I: bibir
P: bibig

nose
I: hidung (h often not pronounced)
P: ilung

nail
I: kuku
P: kuko (?)

child
anak

man, male
I: lelaki, laki-laki
P: lalaki

We actually discovered a lot more. I'll write them down as soon as I remember.

Salam
I really believe that if we use 70-80% intelligibility in testing languages vs dialect our dialects would be classified into less than 30 languages not 100 plus.

If we use the current gauge of intelligibility of our languages is used American English and British english might be considered languages.

Thanks!

Which leads us to...

kill
P: buno
I: bunuh
;)

kill
P (tagalog) = kitil
P (sebuano) = buno

sebuano: buno

buno, in its truest sense,
means "to stab" ;)

Choose! :)
P: pili
I: pilih (again, the H is barely audible)


papatayin kita = in English " I will kill you "

papatayin kita - saya membunuh kamu (bahasa indonesia)

or

papatayin - kematian (bahasa indonesia)
There are several ways to say "I will kill you" in Indonesian.

Saya akan membunuhmu is one.

You can also replace saya with aku or gua/gue.
-mu can be replaced by a dozen of other words.
Mem- in membunuh can be dropped.
The word order can be changed, e.g. Kamu akan saya bunuh.
You can say bakalan instead of akan.

Mati = dead
Kematian = death

You're right about sakit and kesakitan.

akibat = effect (caused by something)
kepala = head, loanword from Sanskrit, related to Greek or Latin cephalos
demam = fever
dewasa = adult

I have to admit that I don't know or forgot the word sukatan. :(

Let me help you. "SUKATAN" means "DOSE" (in English), or "DOSIS" (in Bahasa Indonesia).

Actually, "SUKAT" is also Indonesian word too, but it is less frequently used as a formal language in Indonesia. You can see the word "SUKAT" in Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia.

Bilang is the Tagalog word for count.

Cuenta is Spanish word

Similarly, in Bahasa Indonesia....

COUNT = "bilang"
to COUNT = "membilang"

But, in Indonesia "bilang" also means "TO TELL someone".
And "bilangan" means a group of numbers.

Kawan saya tidak tahu kenapa Indonesia punya bahasa nacional tidak asli di Indonesia. Saya pikir itu bahasa dari Bangsa Malayu atau itu dari Sumatra Malayu.

I don't know why Indonesia is using a national language which I presumed is not an original language of Indonesia. I reckoned the national language (bahasa) used by Indonesia came from Federation of Malaysia or perhaps from Sumatra Malayu.

Salam.

There is a part in South East Asia, which really develops as Center of InterContinental Trade Route (this longggg way before SINGAPORE even developed by Stamford Rafless). The two places were Malacca and Batavia (currently referred to Melaka in Malaysia and Jakarta in Indonesia).

The most frequently used native language among traders was Bahasa Melayu. Bahasa Melayu is already a lingua franca among traders. Even though, Bahasa Melayu is not widely-spoken in other part of Inland-Java (which most of the residents were Farmers and Labors). But, in JAKARTA (or Batavia)--which is the major port-- this language is widely-spoken. The culture of Native Jakartans which is called as "BETAWI" is always referred as the mix-match of Javanese, Sundanese, and Malay-Sumatranese culture. Linguistically, BETAWI shares major similarity with Bahasa Melayu, comparing to Javanese and Sundanese (although they are the natives of Java Island).

Btw, Modern Bahasa Melayu which were frequently-used among traders is originated from RIAU. RIAU Coastal and Islands was only located separated by Malaccan Strait (still the busiest Natural-Waterway in the world). During the traditional kingdom era, actually The Riau Sultanate was covering southern tip Malaysian Peninsular area. And, then There was a LONDON TREATY 1824, which divides Riau sultanate in Peninsular to be ruled under BRITISH (the place is called as JOHOR, right now) and the coastal and islands part to be ruled under DUTCH. Basically, Bahasa Melayu is originally coming from both countries. And the language is ORIGINED from Indonesia (and also Malaysia). And Bahasa Melayu itself already used as an inter-ethnic lingua-franca among traders. This is the reason, why BAHASA MELAYU is the only nationally-recognized lingua-franca at the time. (in fact, INdonesia is not only Java island).


It is interesting indeed why Indonesians didn't pick Javanese which was numerically the largest language.
Yet I wouldn't go so far as to say that Malay, which evolved into Indonesian, wasn't native.
Apart from the fact that -as you said yourself- it had been the native language in some parts of Indonesia (Sumatra, Kalimantan, etc.), it had been the lingua franca in large parts of the archipelago for centuries, used even by the Javanese to communicate with people from other parts of the country.
And to those people who didn't really speak Malay at home, it wasn't truly a foreign language either.
I can't think of a better example right now, but for them it was probably like Spanish today is to many Catalan speakers. It's not their native language, but it's not a foreign language either.
Moreover we shouldn't forget that I was referring to the situation before 1945. Not to mention that the decision to pick Malay as the national language was made as early as 1928.
After over six decades of independence the reality today is that more and more generations are growing up having Indonesian/Malay as their native language.

To those of you who may not understand what this is all about:
Indonesian is based on Malay and even today Malaysians and Indonesians can communicate with each other almost effortlessly because from a linguistic point of view, they speak merely varieties of the same language. Similar cases are: Dari and Farsi, Valencian and Catalan, Croatian and Serbian, Danish and Norwegian, among others.


During high school, I was told by My bahasa teacher, why Javanese wasn't picked as National language:
* Javanese has various grammatical and even vocabularies referred to its "KROMO". Different "KROMO" was used by different speakers from different social status. If you are speaking with the person with higher social status (royal family of Old Javanese Kingdom), then the HIGH-LEVEL-mannered-"KROMO" has to be used. Then, if you are speaking with the person with lower social status, then the NORMAL-LEVEL-mannered-"KROMO" has to be used. Even in family, there are specific "KROMO" used to address a person who is older or younger than you are. This can lead to a problem, to learn this language... Since, most of Indonesian part doesn't really apply this social-system. When, you are in Sumatra... The "manner" is determined mostly by your "INTONATION" of speaking and "EMPHASIZING" the meaning of the words, .. in traditional javanese, It is going down more specific not even the word CHOICES but also the GRAMMAR...
* Sumatranese Malay, don't have any SOCIALLY-determined grammatical choice. It is often referred as a language which can accept changes (also absorption from foreign languages). It is also easier to be learnt, than the Javanese(especially when you are not applying Javanese Social-system at your house). Sumatranese Malay is TRUE not the MOSTLY-USED language during colonization era, but it is also TRUE that it is the MOST-WIDELY used language during colonization era.

Thanks a lot Rilham! :master:

Similarly, in Bahasa Indonesia....

COUNT = "bilang"
to COUNT = "membilang"

But, in Indonesia "bilang" also means "TO TELL someone".
And "bilangan" means a group of numbers.
It's interesting to notice that in many bahasas, tell (a story) and count (numbers) are related.

In Bahasa Inggris (English):
Tell originally also meant count. Hence teller in a bank.
Recount, related to count, means tell (a story).

In Bahasa Italia and Bahasa Spanyol:
Contare/contar means both tell (a story) and count.

In Bahasa Jerman:
Zählen = count
Erzählen = tell (a story)
Verzählen = tell (a story) in certain varieties of German
Sich verzählen = count wrongly

Balayan History and Historical Accounts

“BALAYAN”, the name of an old town and of vast and prosperous province in 1581 which has been figured out here as the Center of the Ancient Country and powerful kingdom of Mai-I under leadership BAI (Sri-visayan ba’ye meaning woman), is probably derived from “balai” (pronounced as ba-lay [a Sri-visayan word for house] or “bahai (prounounce as ba-hay). Later the Filipino suffix “an” was added, thus the word Balayan was coined referring to group of houses or settlement or homes. During the early days, the natives used to construct their houses on stilts above the waters of the shores of what is now Balayan Bay.

The historic beginnings of Balayan date back to early 11th to 13th century as chronicled by Chinese historic accounts and was an important trading port as what they termed as the “South Seas of the Barbarians” where Malays, Mongolians, and Australians transported their goods for barter of the products of the natives. The natives, the “Tayakads’ and the Sagubangs” living in the fabled and majestic Batulao Mountain or the Mountain of Gold called “Batung-Dulaw” (Sri-visayan term for yellow rocks), abode of the mythical fairy Princess Dalisay, daughter of King Suay and Queen Tagaytay. Later the land near the sea was settled by Mongoloid (?) [Mongols, Mongolians] who came from mainland Asia, as the place was a trading post of the neighboring countries. The people settling near the sea inter-mixed and marry the natives and produced inter-mixed dialect thus the creation of Tagalog language.

The settlement lies on the shores of a vast body of water (now called Balayan Bay). The place was called Vonvon by the Muslim natives, with population of 3,400 and 600 Balayan natives. The people lived along the lands of the sea as well as on the lands of a big river (Binambang) coming from the fabled mountain of “Batung Dulao”, where Datu Balensusa (?) [Balensucla] and Datu Dumangsil, two of the ten datus who purchased Panay, arrived and settled when they were blown by winds when they tried to return home. Later Datu Dumangsil sailed downward and Datu Balensusa was left behind in what was then called Bonbon. The last Malayan ruler, one of his descendants, Datu Kumintang, stayed in what is now called Pooc and died there. The old province of Balayan start from Nasugbu to the far eastern region in Laguna including part of Camarines Norte and Mindoro and Marinduque down south was the most prosperous and civilized in the Philippines during that time. The tagalog term “BALAYAN” for the now Batangas area was replaced as “Kumintang” by the Visayan people under leadership of the descendant of Datu Balensucla and Datu Dumagsil, Datu Kumintang who inherited the place by the latter datu in the middle of 13th century, as told in tradition or in the Maragtas. When the Spaniards first came, communities in Nasugbu, Balayan, Taal, Batangas, Bai, Cavite, Bacoor, Pasig, Marikina, Cainta, Nagcarlan, Lilio, Pilar, pangil, Majayjay, Paracale, Calamba, etc. were the first towns and centers of commerce and industries in the archipelago.” It is said that when Spaniards arrived at the shores of Balayan, it was already populated by the descendants of the two Bornean Datus who settled in this place.

After the construction of a much stronger chapel than built in 1572 in barrio Ibabao on 1575, Balayan became the center of Christianity in southern Luzon area. 3 years later, Balayan municipality was formally established in the name of the King of Spain as founded by two Augustinian friars, Fray Esteban Ortiz and Fray Juan de Porras . The total municipal area covered includes the places of which today is known as municipalities of Nasugbu, Lian, Tuy and Calatagan. After 3 more years since the place became a municipality, it became a province with jurisdiction extending from its landholdings up to the southern part of Laguna and Quezon and as far as Camarines Norte, the now Batangas, Mindoro and Marinduque. The institutional hub of the seat of the town proper was moved and fortified from the shorelines to its present site, the Presidencia Building at now plaza Rizat Street, for security purposes and haven for refuge against natural calamities as the rampaging waters and manmade hostilities of muslim attackers at that time.

This province of Balayan already belong to the Archbishop of Manila and is small in area. Its principal products are garlic and onions and some textiles for blankets. It has 3,151 tributes, 2,016 belonging to encomiendas of His Majesty, and 1,135 to encomiendas of private parties (San Antonio, Chronicles of Holy Prov. of San Gregorio)1728. It use to be part of Archdiocese of Manila until the bishopric of Lipa was established. In old writings of 1779 and 1804 in the “Kalupi”, Balayan is the Capitol from 1578 to 1779 for 201 years.

11
1394- Datu Balensucla settled in barrio Pooc and “founded” Balayan then inherited by Datu Kumintang labor.
1400- In the 1400s, Muslim trading states were established in the southern Philippines and in parts of Luzon, a development connected with the spread of Islam throughout island Southeast Asia at this time (See The Malay Archipelago and Peninsula).
1570- Martin de Goite rejoined by Juan de Salcedo explored Balayan Bay. When Goite sailed for Manila the latter was left behind. May 8, 1570- the Spaniards first set foot on the shores of Balayan headed by Marshal Martin de Goite and Captain Juan de Salcedo and found that this place is a wealthy and thriving community. Later Balayan was rewarded to De Goite as his encomienda while Villa Fernandina in Vigan, Ilocos Sur became Salcedo’s encomienda.
1572- The Augustinian Friars planted the first cross somewhere in Barangay Lanatan and put up a chapel of weak materials. However, the church did not last long for it was destroyed by barbaric natives.
1575- Another church was built in Barrio Ibabao whose remnants are still visible like the stone altar, thus the mission of the religious fathers started.
1578- Coastal town of Balayan was officially founded under spain by Fr. Esteban Ortiz and Fr. Juan de Porras covering the now towns of Nasugbu, Lian, Calatagan, Tuy and Calaca.
1581- Province of Balayan was created and Balayan was made the capitol with jurisdiction extending over vast territory including what is now Batangas, Mindoro, Marinduque and all the lands southeastern part of Laguna as far as Camarines Norte.
1590- The first church in Balayan was constructed.
1591- Fr. Pedro Chirino, the Jesuit historian, blessed the new church of Balayan.
1600- Fragments of large storage jars found at Nipah and probably made at Quanzhou, Fujian are of the same type as jars found on the wreck of the Spanish galleon San Diego, which sank in 1600 off Fortune Island, not far from Manila in the Philippines.
1675- Balayan was captured by Muslims.
1732- Outlying regions of the Province of Balayan were separated with Batangas proper become the only remaining constituent part of the province.
1743- Almost all young men and women of Balayan went to Manila to report the abuses of the friars to the Captain General though the Alcalde Mayor ordered to stop the abuses in the convent.
1744- Francisco matienza of Dilao led some prominent persons of Balayan to demand in Manila the return of the lands of Lian, Calatagan, and Nasugbu to the natives usurped by the friars but the Capitan Municipal refused and ended in troubles.
1749- Construction of stone church, convent and the town hall started. Stonewalls in front of church patio were erected to hold water and fortress were built toward off attackers. Remnants are still visible at present.
1754- Muslims raid the town, many residents fled to Cavite. Battle of Cayponce.
1759- The stone church was blessed and dedicated in honor of the Immaculate Concepcion, Balayan’s Patroness.
1769- Juan de Ayala, the first native priest from Balayan sang the Mass.
1789- Muslim landed in Dacanlao.
1815- Kanluran was flooded, all houses were wiped out.
1828- big fire cause all houses to burn except the convent, the church, the Captain, and camerera of the virgin Rosario.
1833- the road to Batangas was opened.
1838- Municipality of Calaca was established and separated from Balayan.
1845- Calatagan was established and was separated from Balayan
1848- Digging of Binangbang River to flow in another direction to control flood
1849- The new cemetery construction was started in barrio Ibabao
1853- This year ended the moving houses from the main road and the area with 100 houses became one barrio.
1854- Big fires hit houses. “Progreso” ship anchored in Balayan
1855- Barrios were established and there at least nineteen barrios in Balayan
1859- Cabeza for every 100 houses formed
1866- Almost all houses was burned by the big fire except the church.
1867- Construction of school building in swampy area began. Tuy was established as town and was separated from Balayan
1877- 22,000 cavans of baling birds were caught
1876- Manuel Gonzales Araullo finished Jurisprudence who became President of Supreme Court, in Central Universidad, Madrid, Spain
1880- Big fire burned many houses
1882- Cholera killed many residents
1884- Vivencio Ramos finished Licienciate in Medicine and Civugia, first in the province.
1896- San Miguel Mabini led the ambuscade of Spanish Troops from Calatagan in barrio Palikpikan, 70 Spaniards were killed and 30 to the ambusher.
1898- Andres de Jesus, Presidente Tagalog, end of Spanish regime in the Philippines
1899- Beginning of American colonization/era
1903- Calaca was returned to Balayan but again re-established in the same year. Calatagan and Tuy was also returned to Balayan.
1911- Tuy was re-established and again separated from Balayan
1912- Calatagan was re-established and again separated from Balayan
1939- Nasugbu and Lian were established as towns and separated to Balayan.
1941- Japanese military occupation
1945- Liberation November 28-December 23,
1978- the historic municipality of Balayan, Batangas celebrated its 400th year of founding and Christianization. The celebration began with the introduction of the hermana mayor (Spanish word meaning elderly sister) followed by novena (long prayer) to the Blessed Virgin Mary of the Immaculate concepcion and ended with the coronation of “Prinsesa ng Balayan” (Princess of Balayan). In between, religious processions, “Luwa” (female tributary honoring) and “Arias”, stage shows, concerts, awarding ceremony, dances, and fiestas provided opportunities for the people and visitors to come together and join in the celebration.
1984- Balayan co-host NPC-BCFTPP
1991- Batangas Sugar Central was established
2000- Steel Corporation of the Philippines established

SOURCE: ARTES DE LAS FILIPINAS , A BRIEF HISTORY OF BALAYAN, BATANGAS, Christiane De La Paz, http://www.artesdelasfilipinas.com/archives.php?page_id=27

^^ Thanks!


Some interesting discoveries about Kapampangan!

ə = schwa


new
Kapampangan: bayu
Tagalog: bago
Ilokano: baro
Indonesian: baru

plant
Some Kapampangan dialects and spoken Indonesian: tanəm
Standard Kapampangan and Standard Indonesian: tanam
Sebuano: tanom
Tagalog: tanim

arrive
Kapampangan and Indonesian: datang
Spoken Indonesian (and Kapampangan dialects?): datəng

I
Kapampangan and Indonesian: aku

my
Kapampangan and Indonesian: ku

your
Kapampangan and Indonesian: mu

s/he
Kap.: iya
Indonesian: dia, ia (pronounced iya)

his/her
Kapampangan: na
Indonesian: nya (ny = Spanish ñ)

Kapampangan sulat = write
Indonesian surat = letter

reading
Kapampangan: mamasa
Indonesian: məmbaca

Kapampangan pera = money
Indonesian perak = silver, and as a slang for the currency too
NB: Spanish plata, French argent = silver and money

this
Kapampangan and Indonesian: ini

that
Kapampangan: ita
Sundanese: eta
Indonesian: itu

eat
Kapampangan and Javanese: mangan
Indonesian: makan

eating
Kapampangan: mamangan
Indonesian (substandard): məmakan

pig
Kap. and Indonesian: babi

"house"
Kapampangan and Javanese: bale
Indonesian: balai

rice
Kapampangan and Indonesian: nasi

there is/are
Kapampangan: ati
Indonesian: ada

pay
Kapampangan and Indonesian: bayar



I'm flabbergasted. :) Kapampangan seems to be very close to Indonesian.

^^ If I'm not mistaken, it's Kapampangan that has the closest lexical similarity to Malay.

right....kapampangan has the closest lexical similarity to indonesian language

new
Kapampangan: bayu
Ilokano: baro
Indonesian: baru
Sebuano: bag-o
Tagalog: bago

plant
Some Kapampangan dialects and spoken Indonesian: tanəm
Standard Kapampangan and Standard Indonesian: tanam
Sebuano: tanom
Tagalog: tanim

arrive
Kapampangan: datang
Indonesian: datang
Spoken Indonesian (and Kapampangan dialects?): datəng

I
Kapampangan and Indonesian: aku
Sebuano: aku
Tagalog: ako

my
Kapampangan and Indonesian: mu

s/he
Kapampangan: iya
Indonesian: dia, ia (pronounced iya)
Sebuano: sia
Tagalog: siya

his/her
Kapampangan: na
Indonesian: nya (ny = Spanish ñ)

Kapampangan sulat = write
Indonesian surat = letter
Sebuano: sulat = letter
Tagalog: sulat = liham

reading
Kapampangan: mamasa
Indonesian: məmbaca
Sebuano: mamasa (will be reading)

Kapampangan pera = money
Indonesian perak = silver, and as a slang for the currency too
NB: Spanish plata, French argent = silver and money

this
Kapampangan and Indonesian: ini
Sebuano: kini
Tagalog: ito

that
Kapampangan: ita
Sundanese: eta
Indonesian: itu
Sebuano: katu
Tagalog: iyon

eat
Kapampangan and Javanese: mangan
Indonesian: makan
Sebuano: mangaon (let's eat)

eating
Kapampangan: mamangan
Indonesian (substandard): məmakan

pig
Kap. and Indonesian: babi
Sebuano: baboy
Tagalog: baboy

"house"
Kapampangan and Javanese: bale
Indonesian: balai
Sebuano: balai
Tagalog: bahay

rice
Kapampangan and Indonesian: nasi

there is/are
Kapampangan: ati
Indonesian: ada

pay
Kapampangan and Indonesian: bayar
Sebuano: bayad
Tagalog: bayad

Bulacan, as you know, was once a part of Pampanga, in the early days of colonization after the Spaniards cut up Luzon into three mega-provinces: the extreme northern areas as the province of Ylocos, the Tagalog region all the way down to Bicol as the province of Manila, and Central Luzon as the province of La Pampanga.

Bulacan started out as a town within Pampanga, probably named after the muddy rice paddies, burakan, and not after the cotton trees. I say probably, because the available records are sketchy and historians are still debating.

Although Bulacan was once part of Pampanga, it does not mean that all the inhabitants there spoke Kapampangan. Provinces were defined by political and administrative expediency, not by language.

But some interior towns in Bulacan did speak Kapampangan once upon a time. We know this because some Bulacan towns came from kapampangan words. Examples are Malolos (from maluslos), Baliuag (ancient Kapampangan word which means "untouched;" also old name of Sto. Tomas town in Pampanga); Quingwa (old name of Plaridel); Bulacan (from burakan); San Miguel de Mayumu; and Guiguinto.

There are also many barrios in Bulacan that residents don't realize have also come from Pampanga: King Kabayo, Cutcut, Calantipay, Salapungan, Pinaud, Sacdalan, Batasan, Masalipit, Meyto, Bulusan, Cacarong, etc.

Some historians argue that the province of Bulacan was as old as the town of Bulacan, which was founded in 1578, because the town already had been "stretched" to include other towns. The Tagalog for stretch is lawig, the root word of the term lalawigan (province).

It was the practice at the time to first establish a town, then govern the adjacent areas from that town, and name that aggrupation of governed areas after the original town. Hence, Bulacan town gave rise to Bulacan province (in the same way that Tarlac town led to Tarlac province, Batangas town to Batangas province, etc.).

Other historians maintain that Bulacan as a province (Spanish provincia) was separated from its matrix, Pampanga, only in 1755.

I just want to share about the Laguna copper plate inscription (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_Copperplate_Inscription) as the first recorded history about Tundun (present day Tondo) in the district of Manila, some towns in the provinces of Bulacan, Laguna and even as far as Medan, Indonesia.

Old Tagalog:

Swasti Shaka warsatita 822 Waisaka masa di(ng) jyotisa. Caturthi Krisnapaksa somawara sana tatkala Dayang Angkatan lawan dengan nya sanak barngaran si Bukah anak da dang Hwan Namwaran dibari waradana wi shuddhapattra ulih sang pamegat senapati di Tundun barja(di) dang Hwan Nayaka tuhan Pailah Jayadewa.

Di krama dang Hwan Namwaran dengan dang kayastha shuddha nu diparlappas hutang da walenda Kati 1 Suwarna 8 di hadapan dang Huwan Nayaka tuhan Puliran Kasumuran.

dang Hwan Nayaka tuhan Pailah barjadi ganashakti. Dang Hwan Nayaka tuhan Binwangan barjadi bishruta tathapi sadana sanak kapawaris ulih sang pamegat dewata [ba]rjadi sang pamegat Medang dari bhaktinda diparhulun sang pamegat.

Ya makanya sadanya anak cucu dang Hwan Namwaran shuddha ya kapawaris dihutang da dang Hwan Namwaran di sang pamegat 'Dewata.

Ini grang syat syapanta ha pashkat ding ari kamudyan ada grang urang barujara welung lappas hutang da dang Hwa ...

English:

Long Live! Year of Syaka 822, month of Vaisakha, according to Jyotisha (Hindu astronomy). The fourth day of the waning moon, Monday. On this occasion, Lady Angkatan, and her brother whose name is Bukah, the children of the Honourable Namwaran, were awarded a document of complete pardon from the Commander in Chief of Tundun, represented by the Lord Minister of Pailah, Jayadewa. By this order, through the scribe, the Honourable Namwaran has been forgiven of all and is released from his debts and arrears of 1 Katî and 8 Suwarna before the Honourable Lord Minister of Puliran Kasumuran by the authority of the Lord Minister of Pailah. Because of his faithful service as a subject of the Chief, the Honourable and widely renowned Lord Minister of Binwangan recognized all the living relatives of Namwaran who were claimed by the Chief of Dewata, represented by the Chief of Medang. Yes, therefore the living descendants of the Honourable Namwaran are forgiven, indeed, of any and all debts of the Honourable Namwaran to the Chief of Dewata. This, in any case, shall declare to whomever henceforth that on some future day should there be a man who claims that no release from the debt of the Honourable...

Modern Tagalog:

Mabuhay! Taóng Siyaka 822, buwán ng Waisaka, ayon sa aghámtalà. Ang ikaapat na araw ng pagliít ng buwán, Lunes. Sa pagkakátaóng itó, si Dayang Angkatán sampû ng kaniyáng kapatíd na nagngangalang Buka, na mga anák ng Kagalang-galang na si Namwarán, ay ginawaran ng isáng kasulatan ng lubós na kapatawarán mulâ sa Punong Pangkalahatan sa Tundún (Tondo ngayon) sa pagkatawán ng Punong Kagawad ng Pailáh (Paila, Laguna ngayon) na si Jayadewa.

Sa atas na itó, sa pamamagitan ng Tagasulat, ang Kagalang-galang na si Namwarán ay pinatawad na sa lahát at inalpasán sa kaniyáng utang at kaniyáng mga náhulíng kabayarán na 1 katî at 8 suwarna sa harapán ng Kagalang-galang na Punong Kagawad ng Puliran (Pulilan ngayon) na si Kasumurán, (sa kapangyarihan ng Kagalang-galang na Punong Kagawad ng Pailáh).

Dahil sa matapát na paglilingkód ni Namwarán bilang isáng sakop ng Punò, kinilala ng Kagalang-galang at batikáng Punong Kagawad ng Binwangan ang lahát ng nabubuhay pang kamag-anak ni Namwarán na inangkín ng Punò ng Dewatà (Diwata ngayon), na kinatawán ng Punò ng Medáng (Medan, Indonesia ngayon).

Samakatwíd, ang mga nabubuhay na inapó ng Kagalang-galang na si Namwarán ay pinatawad sa anumán at lahát ng utang ng Kagalang-galang na si Namwarán sa Punò ng Dewatà.

Itó, kung sakalì, ay magpapahayag kaninumán na mulâ ngayón kung may taong magsasabing hindî pa alpás sa utang ang Kagalang-galang...

Modern Bahasa Indonesia:

Suasti! Tahun Syaka 822, bulan Waisakha menurut penanggalan. Hari keempat setelah bulan mati, Senin. Di saat ini, Dayang Angkatan dengan saudara nya yang bernama si Bukah, anak-anak dari Sang Tuan Namwaran, diberikan sebuah dokumen pengampunan penuh dari Sang Pemegang Pimpinan di Tundun, diwakili oleh Sang Tuan Nayaka dari Pailah, Jayadewa.

Atas perintah nya secara tertulis, Sang Tuan Namwaran telah dimaafkan sepenuh nya dan dibebaskan dari hutang-hutang nya sebanyak 1 Katî dan 8 Suwarna di hadapan Sang Tuan Puliran Kasumuran.

Oleh karena kesetiaan nya dalam berbakti, Sang Tuan Yang Terhormat yang termasyhur dari Binwangan mengakui semua kerabat Namwaran yang masih hidup, yang telah diklaim oleh Sang Penguasa Dewata, yang diwakili oleh Sang Penguasa Medang.

Ya, oleh sebab itu seluruh anak cucu Sang Tuan Namwaran sudah dimaafkan dari segala hutang Sang Tuan Namwaran kepada Sang penguasa Dewata.

Ini, dengan demikian, menjelaskan kepada siapa pun setelah nya, bahwa jika di masa depan ada orang yang mengatakan belum bebas hutang nya Sang Tua...

Just being curious for Indonesians in this thread. Can you guys comprehend the original text of Old Tagalog to a certain degree even without the aided translation because to me Old Tagalog looks closer to Modern Bahasa or Javanese than Modern Tagalog does.

doesn't sound like tagalog to me....i think they can't consider this as old tagalog coz it doesn't sound like one...this is maybe a letter from indonesia astrayed in the philippines

doesn't sound like tagalog to me....i think they can't consider this as old tagalog coz it doesn't sound like one...this is maybe a letter from indonesia astrayed in the philippines

Well, the language could be Old Malay or Old Javanese but it wasn't astrayed from Indonesia. The names of present day places like Tundun (Tondo) on the document itself and the location where debt amnesty took place is too far from being mere coincidence.

I may have another theory that written language for commercial, legal and diplomatic affairs at that time was probably conducted in Old Malay, Old Javanese or even Sanskrit itself while Tagalog and other regional languages were the spoken languages of the natives.