Will TOOWOOMBA overtake CAIRNS???

[JayT]

Just looking at some of the ABS stats for 2002 and it seems that Toowoomba is growing faster than Cairns is.

% Growth 1997 - 2002

Toowoomba - 111,400 - 1.6%
Cairns - 114.500 - 1.1%

Its quite amazing to think that during this period Toowoomba actually grew faster than Cairns.

Top Queensland city populations 2002.

Brisbane - - - - - 1,689,100
Gold Coast - - - - - 439,700
Sunshine Coast - - 191,900
Townsville - - - - - - 137,400
Cairns - - - - - - - - - 114.500
Toowoomba - - - - - 111,400
Mackay - - - - - - - - - 65,800
Rockhampton - - - - - -64,200
Bundaburg - - - - - - - -57,700
Hervey Bay - - - - - - - 40,700
Gladstone - - - - - - - - 39,700

Of course most of these cities have grown quite a bit over the last few years.

jt

[Orfeo]

Probably, but i'd prefer if Cairns was the larger of the two...

A lot of the farmers who live west of Toowomba retire to "the big smoke" of Toowomba, so that could be a reason. It's become a better place to live over the last 5 years but it is still far behind most other cities in Qld. It's hard to imaging that only a few years ago there was only 1 cinema complex (there was actually 2 or 3 a few decades ago). The smallest city i've ever lived in was State College (Pa, US) only about 35, 000 yet it had much better facilities than toowomba, though it's a college town so its population was quite a bit larger durring the uni semesters.

[Orfeo]

edit

[Danubis]

lol you're using the number of 'ciniplex's" a city has as a social indicator?!

[Joe]

Wow thats some interesting stats, JAYT

I did not realize that Cairns was only 114,000 . In the last two years there has been lots of housing developments and growth.

[finn]

Originally posted by JayT
Just looking at some of the ABS stats for 2002 and it seems that Toowoomba is growing faster than Cairns is.

% Growth 1997 - 2002

Toowoomba - 111,400 - 1.6%
Cairns - 114.500 - 1.1%

Its quite amazing to think that during this period Toowoomba actually grew faster than Cairns.

Top Queensland city populations 2002.

Brisbane - - - - - 1,689,100
Gold Coast - - - - - 439,700
Sunshine Coast - - 191,900
Townsville - - - - - - 137,400
Cairns - - - - - - - - - 114.500
Toowoomba - - - - - 111,400
Mackay - - - - - - - - - 65,800
Rockhampton - - - - - -64,200
Bundaburg - - - - - - - -57,700
Hervey Bay - - - - - - - 40,700
Gladstone - - - - - - - - 39,700

Of course most of these cities have grown quite a bit over the last few years.

jt

Well, both Cairns and Toowoomba picked up the pace in the 30/06/2002-30/06/2003 year, but Cairns did come out on top with the percentage growth rate - check it out:

(city>>30/06/02 pop'n>>30/06/2003 pop'n>>% growth)

Cairns>>114,610>>117,400>>2.4%

Toowoomba>>111,512>>113,687>>2.0%

[Joe]

I am not suprised about the growth rates. I have seen 3 large retirement villages and hundreds of houses underconstruction in
Toowoomba. As for Cairns, it is a tourist mecca so growth should be expected

[sky vs sky]

I am not suprised about the growth rates. I have seen 3 large retirement villages and hundreds of houses underconstruction in

It is a very interesting comparison between two very different cities. Their respective growths will be driven by two different city lifestyle/cultures and industries.

As a commercial centre Cairns will always be in the shadow of Townsville, leaving tourism as the machine of economic growth. Of course September 11, knocked the guts out of the city and it is just starting to turn the corner again. The boardwalk rejuvenation project has instilled a great measure of civic pride in the city.

Interesting Joe, that you pointed out the UC of retirement villages in Toowoomba. Hervey Bay's growth started as large retirement village and it is growing into a very nice diverse city maintaining both it's identity and uniqueness. I believe Toowoomba has the potential to become one of our greatest cities. Certainly it will always be attractive to retirees from the bush but also from ageing stressed out city folk. It's location is actually pretty sweet.

2hrs from Brissie. no railway yet but logic dictates a Bris/Ipswich/Gatton/Toowooba fastrail link in the future. Doubting Thomases think Adelaide to Darwin.
1hr Granite Belt Wine Country.
2.5 hrs Sunshine Coast
3hrs Gold Coast (try surfing in Cairns. 2 hr boat ride to the Continetal Shelf...with Sharks)

I see no inhibiting restrictions to the Growth of Toowoomba whilst Cairns has a few namely :
-lack of development sea side land for the Sea Change brigade.
-a tourism industry that continuely needs to be driven in a very competitive domestic and international market. eg. Vietnam and and Thailand are the current hotspots for young international toursits. Cairns also competes with Airlie Beach and Hervey Bay/Fraser Island for the backpacker $ By the time they are finished in Airlie they are tuckered out, broke and have been conned into that diving excursion that they were going to do in Cairns. Cairns is at the end of the food chain.

Toowoomba has a shit load of land available. (and at favourably comparable rates)

Top Queensland city populations 2002.

you missed Logan City which had 170 000 people in 2001

[Orfeo]

^^^^
There have always been plans for passenger rail between Brisbane and Toowoomba but the problem is the range. There used to be passenger cars tacked on to the back of normal freight trains heading to Toowoomba, but it took so long to get up the range people just took a bus.

I think the 2001 proposal was cancelled but that there is another now but I can't find any information on it.

I think Logan was part of Brisbane in that list.

[Joe]

Orfeo is right in saying that they have had trouble working a way to get up the range with a passenger train. There is no information either??.

You would think that logan city is part of Brisbane??

The list maybe missing Ipswich??. Go Toowoomba :drunk:

[TOCC]

sky vs sky, your underestimating Cairns massively,
As a commercial centre Cairns will always be in the shadow of Townsville, leaving tourism as the machine of economic growth. Of course September 11, knocked the guts out of the city and it is just starting to turn the corner again. The boardwalk rejuvenation project has instilled a great measure of civic pride in the city.
As a commercial centre, both cities will always stand in the shadow of Brisbane, but tourism isnt the only industry behind Cairns, the city actually has a crap load of internatiional students studying in the city. Cairns got the Esplanade, Townsville got the Strand, they are both equally as good as each other.

I see no inhibiting restrictions to the Growth of Toowoomba whilst Cairns has a few namely :
-lack of development sea side land for the Sea Change brigade.
.
if you speak to many people in cairns, waterfront property isnt exactly hot property. It not highest priority of investors up there. Basically cause of the same reason the waterfront property hasnt being a great idea for the past decade.. its called cyclones! Though waterfront development is increasing, its not rivalling the "sea-change" of down south.

And if anything Cairns has a abundance of land to develop, to the west, north and south of the city is very scenic, the bushlands and mountains are beautiful areas to settle in. Not to forget the sugar cane fields which dominate the landscape of up north.
-a tourism industry that continuely needs to be driven in a very competitive domestic and international market. eg. Vietnam and and Thailand are the current hotspots for young international toursits. Cairns also competes with Airlie Beach and Hervey Bay/Fraser Island for the backpacker $ By the time they are finished in Airlie they are tuckered out, broke and have been conned into that diving excursion that they were going to do in Cairns. Cairns is at the end of the food chain
LMAO, you gotta be kidding.. well i guess in that sense, Kuranda is absolutely screwed then! have you failed to realise theres something called Cairns Airport, while Cairns may be at the bottom of the food chain in one sense, its right at the top in another.. people are either arriving or leaving from cairns, its not one sided as you seem to think.
Backpackers are big targets, but Cairns Tourism is more focused on the international asian tourist. Cairns leaves there scraps to places like Arilie Beach, not the other way around.
Toowoomba has a shit load of land available. (and at favourably comparable rates)
Cairns like i said before, has alot of Asian Students, so its no suprise to see a shitload of townhouses and "6 packs" in Cairns.. as for the prices, there both equally as good as each other.

I was born and raised for a few years in Townsville so its not like im a stranger, also i visit my uncle in cairns almost yearly. Driving up and back and visiting my friends in Townsville along the way.. i think Townsvile has changed the most in the past years, the City Centre when i was up in Christmas/New Years was getting tottaly transformed. Cairns is a bit later into the boat and is slowly picking up on the City Renewal. Which do i enjoy more, well im a Brisbane boy so i find both incredibly boring for more then a few days. I think Townsville will continue to be the bigger, but its almost the same as the GC-Bris relationship. While Brisbane is bigger, Cairns steals the lime-light cause of the massive tourism industry..

[sky vs sky]

TOCC I was only referring to Cairns as the end of the food chain in relation to the backpacker $. I probably put too much emphasis on the point I was trying to make about the importance and distributtion of the backpacker $

You're absolutely right about the Cairns Airport. It's been a major string in the bow for Cairns tourism but I'm not sure the region is attracting the same number of Asian tourists as pre. Sept. 11. All things considered Cairns has the potential and infrastructure to become a geniune tourism mecca in SE Asia.

My info is coming from a good mate who is a wine rep in Cairns. He sells to all the International hotels,resorts, restaurants from Cooktown to Mackay. He used to sell a shit load of desert wine to a duty free in Cairns. Apparently the Asians absolutely loved it......sales are now very poor and the outlet, cites a downtown in Asian visitors as the reason why.


Apparently Cairns is currently handling it's tourism numbers with ease, so it would be safe to assume as a driver of further population growth, Cairns tourism will need to regain it's international numbers and then increase it dramatically. Only then is there a true need for additional bed number/resort/hotel capacity - which would then certainly drive infrastructure, employment and therefore population growth.

well im a Brisbane boy so i find both incredibly boring for more then a few days.

lol same here. I'm just a Brissie beach bum and I'd rather spend a week at Double Island, Moreton, Straddie, Goldy or Byron and they're all within a fuel tank's drive away...never mind the airfare and car-hire befor you unpack your bags....

[Danubis]

Also, its worth noting that as a result of the 'range factor' with the toowoomba-brisbane train route, McCafferty's Bus lines first bus route was from toowoomba to brisbane, and has since became Australia's largest bus company (McCaffery's bought out Greyhound). McCafferty's is still based in Toowoomba and the Toowoomba-Brisbane route is still the busiest bus route in Australia.

[Shado]

I think Logan was part of Brisbane in that list.

Good old, 'we'll just call it Brisbane when it suits us' Logan...

In the same that list lumps 'The Sunshine Coast' together, when unlike the Gold Coast it's actually made up of many shires. On a strictly Local Government Area basis, Logan is the third biggest city in QLD (after Brisbane and the Gold Coast which it is wedged between.

I assume Ipswich, Redlands & Pine Rivers were also considered 'Brisbane' for these figures.

[sky vs sky]

I assume Ipswich, Redlands & Pine Rivers were also considered 'Brisbane' for these figures.

Indeed. Ipswich is definitely a city centre independent of Brisbane with a population of approx. 135 000. So too is Redcliffe City with approx 50 000.

It's all adding up to a very big urban corridor bringing together 4 cities on the fringe of Brissie....and then the Sunshine Coast an hour up the road.

[Orfeo]

They're just metro figures, but if you want proper council figures (and gowth)...

The Growth of major Queensland cities - June 2002 to June 2003

Brisbane - 938,384 (2.3%)
Gold Coast - 454,000 (3.7%)
Sunshine Coast - 200,139 (4.2%)
Logan City - 171,292 (1.0%)
Pine Rivers - 133,778 (4.9%)
Cairns - 122,192 (2.3%)
Ipswich - 119,291 (2.0%)
Caboolture - 115,386 (3.9%)
Toowoomba - 113,678 (2.0%)
Redcliffe - 51,723 (1.9%)
Beaudesert - 29,821 (3.0%)

Toowoomba is actually bigger than that because a few of the statistical divisions that make it up are split into 2 or 3 areas, with only one being counted (eg. Crows Nest, Cambooya, Rosalie ect.) If all these wer counted there would be an extra almost 17,500 extra people (surpassing Cairns)

[BrizzyChris]

I remember in forecasts about 3 yrs ago, the population projection for Brisbane was "just" under 1million by 2011. I think at the current rate it will pass 1 million by around 2007-2008.

[Shado]

Sunshine Coast is a combination of Caloundra City, Maroochy Shire and Noosa Shire LGAs

Noosa (S) 46,461
Maroochy (S) 136,461
Caloundra (C) 82,905

So combined it would be 265,827.

But on a stictly LGA basis, it's not that big....

In SEQ:

Brisbane (C) 938,384
Gold Coast (C) 455,473
Logan (C) 171,292
Maroochy (S) 136,461
Pine Rivers (S) 133,778
Ipswich (C) 131,747
Redland (S) 124,683
Caboolture (S) 121,135

And that's just LGAs with >100,000 people. There are quite a few in between those with ~10k-50k people.

Toowoomba is actually bigger than that because a few of the statistical divisions that make it up are split into 2 or 3 areas, with only one being counted (eg. Crows Nest, Cambooya, Rosalie ect.) If all these wer counted there would be an extra almost 17,500 extra people (surpassing Cairns)

One would imagine the same is true for Cairns though, if you don't stop at LGA boundries, just where do you stop? (Although that's not exactly fair in all states, if you went on LGA alone, Brisbane and the Gold Coast are the two biggest population centres in all of Australia. By quite a margin too.

I guess the biggest thing is that people often believe that Logan, Pine Rivers, Ipswich, Redland & Caboolture are part of Brisbane, Brisbane greater Metro perhaps, but they are very much independent of Brisbane, with no financial or governmental ties; or to the dismay of many any PT coordination (actually, I lie, there has been some very minor communication in the last few months in that area)... People probably think they're the same city, especially with Logan, because there are houses the whole way beside the highway. (There are some streets where it's Brisbane on the one side, and your neighbours across the road are in Logan... :o )

[Oriolus]

Townsville often suffers from this problem. People often quote Townsville's population as only the population of Townsville City even though Thuringowa City is dependant and continuous with Townsville LGA, the line slicing right through suburbia. By this logic Sydney would wind up with a poulation of about 130,000 by only counting the Sydney City LGA (might be a bit higher after the merger with Sth Syd).

As a result Townsville often is quoted as having a lower population than Cairns, who are of course our sworn enemies.

[Danubis]

I think it is fair to add the 'satelite suburbs' into reckoning of population of a city. for example, 'mini towns' like cambooya, wyreema, westbrook and kingsthorpe have no other public structure or amenity apart from residential development that would normally define it as a town in its own right. all of these suburbs are 100% dependant on toowoomba, and are all only about 10 mins away from city centre, so should be included as part of toowoomba population.

[Shado]

Cities like Logan, Redland, Ipswich & Pine Rivers however aren't dependent on Brisbane. I'm sure 10% or more of their workforces commute to Brisbane, but they maintain a full set of infrastructure themselves (Waste / Water / Roads / PT / Libraries / Pools & Parks etc). And there are of course Brisbane residents that commute the other way.

I guess if you really want to get an idea of a city you need to measure population density / distance from the CBD. And provide multiple samples to illustrate the different density patterns found in cities. And even then.......

[Bond James Bond]

Pine Rivers - 133,778 (4.9%)

OK, now I'm confused. Where the heck is Pine Rivers? It's not even on my Aus atlas.

[jellyman]

Pine Rivers is the shire bordering Brisbane directly on the north and north west. Between Caboolture and Brisbane basically.

[Bond James Bond]

^Oh, I kinda figured it was probably near Brisbane. Thanks.

[dynamoultraclean]

I think the question you are really asking is will Toowoomba overtake Melbourne? :P Deep down that's what you want to ask.

[Joe]

melbourne sure... :drunk: welcome to the will toowoomba overtake cairns thread.... :)

[Cee_em_bee]

The Brisbane metropolitan area is unique in Australia with 2 medium sized centres(Mayby more??) and 1 large one.. Metropolitan areas such as Sydney have only one extremely huge centre

[Shado]

I think the question you are really asking is will Toowoomba overtake Melbourne? :P Deep down that's what you want to ask.

Well it has a higher growth rate :p

I could probably pin down the exact year for you (wildly assuming growth remains the same in both cities :lol: ) But my guess would be somewhere around 2300 (actually my real guess would be never) but the statistics suggest that it will.... :lol:

The Brisbane metropolitan area is unique in Australia with 2 medium sized centres(Mayby more??) and 1 large one.. Metropolitan areas such as Sydney have only one extremely huge centre

But in the reverse Sydney pretty much has 2 CBDs with Sydney & South Sydney. Just shows each city is unique.

[jellyman]

of course Toowoomba will overtake Melbourne. But will that be before or after it overtakes cairns??

[nagelixin]

Toowoomba needs a direct Freeway grade and high speed rail links to Brisbane for it to really expand. The current road is not good enough, bypass those little towns and fruit shops and have a real Freeway.

[Orfeo]

^^^
Didn't they just recently expand the road?

[Danubis]

There were 92,555 persons residing in Toowoomba in 2003. Over the past ten years the population has been growing at an average annual rate of 0.8%, lower than Queensland growth of 2.0% over the same period. In 2003, Toowoomba accounted for 43.8% of the Darling Downs population, an increase from the 42.9% recorded in 1998.

Population estimates for the area known as Greater Toowoomba were produced using 2001 Census data. This area, which includes the townships of Highfields, Cabarlah, Meringandan, Kingsthorpe, Cotswold Hills, Westbrook, Wyreema and Cambooya, which surround Toowoomba City, had an estimated population of 109,237 in 2001.

Population projections to the year 2026 show that Toowoomba’s average population growth is expected to increase by 0.6% per annum, to a population of 105,313 persons and the Greater Toowoomba polulation is expected to grow to 140 892 people. Meanwhile, the State’s population growth is forecast to increase to 1.5% per annum.

[Danubis]

it is projected that toowoomba will break the 100,000 mark in 2011...

[Blend]

i count any area that joins together as 1 city, IF the 1 of the centres is substantially bigger than the other. Since brisbane expands and meets with the smaller 'suburbs' i think theyre included in its thing. There is no was to differentiate between them, so from Caboolture to Logan, out to Ipswich and ot Pine Rivers is all brisbane. I live in Pine Rivers shire, an i along with everyone around here says we live in brisbane.

Just as all the sunshine Coast 'cities' are just the sunshine coast. I wouldnt ever class them as different cities when describing them.

If melbourne enveloped Geelong i would class Geelong as being part of Melbourne.

I have a different view if the 2 Centres are both quite big. Like when Brisbane and the Gold Coast finally meet, they will still be two seperate cities...

I will have no problem with quoting the SEQ figures though, since it WILL be 1 massive joined area.

[JayT]

i count any area that joins together as 1 city, IF the 1 of the centres is substantially bigger than the other. Since brisbane expands and meets with the smaller 'suburbs' i think theyre included in its thing. There is no was to differentiate between them, so from Caboolture to Logan, out to Ipswich and ot Pine Rivers is all brisbane. I live in Pine Rivers shire, an i along with everyone around here says we live in brisbane.

Just as all the sunshine Coast 'cities' are just the sunshine coast. I wouldnt ever class them as different cities when describing them.

If melbourne enveloped Geelong i would class Geelong as being part of Melbourne.

I have a different view if the 2 Centres are both quite big. Like when Brisbane and the Gold Coast finally meet, they will still be two seperate cities...

I will have no problem with quoting the SEQ figures though, since it WILL be 1 massive joined area.

Tme major difference between SEQ and other cities is that we have a major area of 'exurbia' around the suburbs. Not sure if you have been to Sydney or Melbourne before but they - especially Melbourne go from country to city in a matter of minutes. Melbourne is especially impressive because you can see the CBD from the country - there is virtually no exurbia to its North and West.

Brisbane on the other hand has a thick layer of exurbia running North and South around the city. Past Ipswich is fairly free of exurbia for now.

Not sure if much exurbia surrounds Toowoomba and Cairns though.
jt

[BrizzyChris]

I wonder if Pine Rivers will ever overtake Maroochy shire?

[JayT]

I wonder if Pine Rivers will ever overtake Maroochy shire?

There may not be a Maroochy shire in a few years if the amalgamation goes ahead.

From Memory Pine Rivers is the third fastest growing municipal area in Queensland after Brisbane and Gold Coast cities.

jt

[Danubis]

I detest the fact that everyone drags toowoomba into this whole SEQ bullshit... face it, Toowoomba will never become part of some brisbane supercity, and more often then not, is forgotten in any real SEQ inferstructial planning expect for when it is needed to prop up population quotations of SEQ

[Shado]

Yeah, Toowoomba is too far from Brisbane to ever be considered part of it, and it would be a sad day if all the land in between Brisbane and Toowoomba was built up, it's some of the nicest bushland in SEQ.

[nagelixin]

^^^
Didn't they just recently expand the road?

They duplicated the Gatton Bypass, that is about it. My main point is that you have to slow down constantly going past silly fruit shops, villages etc.


If the state is serious about a long term plan for all of SEQ a REAL Freeway connecting Toowoomba to Brisbane must be included.

_______________

As for the SEQ thing, I am tired of seeing people compare Brisbane to other cities in terms of population. My point being that you do not see the Brisbane City populous compared to Sydney City Council and the same for Melbourne.

[Blend]

Shado.. if the land between brisbane and toowoomba was ever filled, we would have a major problem. Ive driven that route many times and it is a very long way.. I cannot imagine that all being suburbs.

And who ever includes Toowoomba in Brisbane?

SEQ is a false term really. It one goes to include Brisbane, GC and Sunshine Coast as of the joinage between them.

Toowoomba is a completely independant city from Brisbane so i couldnt be included..

[Danubis]

Not that i would ever include toowoomba in the SEQ garbage, but worth pointing out that toowoomba is closer to brisbane cbd then maroochydoore and takes less time to travel to then bris - caloundra, putting the sunshine coast into this perspective shows how silly the SEQ arguement really is

[Shado]

Not that i would ever include toowoomba in the SEQ garbage, but worth pointing out that toowoomba is closer to brisbane cbd then maroochydoore and takes less time to travel to then bris - caloundra, putting the sunshine coast into this perspective shows how silly the SEQ arguement really is

In reality Toowoomba / Sunshine Coast ARE IN South East Queensland. However that doesn't make them part of a super city.

What really makes a super city is when people live in what is considered one city and work in what is considered another. eg, there are plenty of people who commute daily from the Gold Coast to Brisbane CBD to work. And quite a few that commute from the Sunshine Coast. Toowoomba has less people commute I guess because less people go there for the weather & lifestyle I imagine, and the roads into Brisbane are much much worse. Toowoomba is actually about 10% further away from Brisbane than Maroochydoore and 20% further away than Caloundra, the road is also of much lower quality and speed limit.

Basically though, the maximum raidus of a super city is about 1hr - 1hr 15mins travel time. The only other way to consider something all the one city would be to have it urban the whole distance between.

Caloundra is around 1 hr from Brisbane less if you push it. Toowoomba is 1.5 hours - 2 hours. Puts everything back into perspective doesn't it?

[Danubis]

i can zip down that range to work in 70 mins :P

[Shado]

i can zip down that range to work in 70 mins :P

I'm glad your brakes work then.

So you actually live in Toowoomba and work in Brisbane or no?

[Danubis]

i did up until jan this year, then bit the bullet and finally moved down here, was livin in toowoomba and work at the royal bris

[Macca-GC]

You can get down the range in 70 min, but how quick can you get up?

[Shado]

i did up until jan this year, then bit the bullet and finally moved down here, was livin in toowoomba and work at the royal bris

Was irking me enough working across from the Royal Bris and living in Logan, still technically in the Brisbane Metro. :o

[Danubis]

thats not you dylan is it? lol, you were supposed to be at work today, sicky my arse

[Shado]

No.

[Danubis]

hehe goodo, just checkin

[Cairnsinite]

I'm a Cairnsinite and quite frankly i dont give a stuff if Toowoomba want to overtake Cairns, The same goes with Townsville. Who gives a rats behind if Townsvillians are soo concerned being the fairest of them all in North Queensland. As far as i am concerned i love Cairns the way it is - and i sure hope it can stay that way cos i certainly dont want to see Cairns become a mini concrete jungle just like Townsville. Cairns is well known to visitors as the clean, natural and green city as it still has its connection with nature if you dont believe me take a look at our golden beaches, rainforests and the green scenery thats around Cairns by the way Cairns doesnt rely on another local government area's population as the 120,000 is purely derived from the City of Cairns local government area. I may also like to add that Cairns prior to 1995 had a population of about 45,000 and a smaller local government area, in 1995 Cairns City and Mulgrave Shire Council were amalgamated to form the greater city of Cairns with a population of 120,000.

[Blend]

1stly, its good that you liek your city how it is. Good for you.

You sound sort of jealous? and are too proud to admit it? correct me if im wrong, and please dont get angry lol.

Secondly - Council area doesnt mean much anyway... and what ur saying is that ur population should be around 50k... but due to merging it nearly trippled.

I have not many memories of cairns, just the main road, the motel, and the chairlift lol. and that terrible train to the place in the mountains.

[Oriolus]

Blend - What was so terrible about the Kuranda train!

Cairnsinite -
What was the extent of the former Mulgrave Shire Council - I gather it took in some of the main Cairns urban area?

You seem to be suggesting Townsville tacks Thuringowa onto its total just to get a higher population - Thuringowa is continuous with Townsville, the line runs right through suburbia.

I do agree with Townsville being more of a concrete jungle then Cairns. It would be great to have a big shady park in the CBD but its so small as it is being surrounded by Melton Hill, Stanton Hill/Castle Hill & Ross Cr (some parkland being opening up along creek) & those parks we do have, like Central Park are under utilised.

[Aussie Bhoy]

All 3 places are great, each for their different strengths. I don't really care which has the offical highest population.

Blend you need to visit Cairns again, maybe it was a while ago that you went and you were a bit younger. The Kuranda railway is a great journey, with bridges over waterfalls and tunnels through the mountains, all done in a classic old Queensland train.

[Ausilencer]

Blend - what are you talking about with the train? - I also agree with Oriolus and Aussie Bhoy - the Kuranda railway is a tourist attraction! And the skyway is amazing.

I would also like to add that Cairns and Townsville are both great - they both impressed me when I visited about a year ago (I had never been to either of them before).

[Blend]

i was young when i went on the train.. (younger tha now) and i just didnt enjoy it.

I liked the chairlift thing though, i prefered the privacy of ur own compartment thing, to the trains large, openness.

lol @ Cairns and Tville. They battle eachother :P

[Danubis]

i remember getting fucked by a big muscle man at turtle cove... I love cairns :-)

[Blend]

im going to pretend u never said that.

[Joe]

I am with you on that one Blend