as far as the last I heard in the news, only Saudi started this move...

^^ Does Qatar, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain and other middle eastern countries started to ban DH and construction workers stopped hiring filipino workers? If not, I see it flights to Saudi Arabia are the only destination slowing down and not the whole the middleastern countries or destinations.

no, not in Bahrain.

no, not in Bahrain.

saudi arabia has not ban construction workers. only domestic workers, i dont think theyre gonna ban construction workers from any country anytime soon because saudi arabia has a lot of mega projects right now....and they need these laborers

saudi arabia has not ban construction workers. only domestic workers, i dont think theyre gonna ban construction workers from any country anytime soon because saudi arabia has a lot of mega projects right now....and they need these laborers

Yup work on the tallest tower in the world will begin in Jeddah by late this year so they would need more manpower to help.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulo1470/6018906763/in/photostreamHi All,

Here's my vision of NAIA's expansion.


Expansion of Terminal 1
Expansion of Terminal 2
Construction of a new Domestic Terminal
Construction of a new Terminal 4
Construction of new Cargo Terminals A & B
Link underground rail system for Terminals 1, 2 , 3 & 4 (inter-terminal & external connection all the way to LRT Baclaran)
Construction of consolidated Airport/Airline Support & Control Tower
Widening and extension of Runway 13/31 to 3200 meters
Pasensya na...I'm a dreamer. Malay ba natin...dreams do come true naman eh. :banana::banana::banana:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulo1470/6018906763/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulo1470/6018906763/in/photostreamHi All,

Here's my vision of NAIA's expansion.


Expansion of Terminal 1
Expansion of Terminal 2
Construction of a new Domestic Terminal
Construction of a new Terminal 4
Construction of new Cargo Terminals A & B
Link underground rail system for Terminals 1, 2 , 3 & 4 (inter-terminal & external connection all the way to LRT Baclaran)
Construction of consolidated Airport/Airline Support & Control Tower
Widening and extension of Runway 13/31 to 3200 meters
Pasensya na...I'm a dreamer. Malay ba natin...dreams do come true naman eh. :banana::banana::banana:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulo1470/6018906763/in/photostream


i love it!
Terminal 3 for the lcc, budget international flights

New Domestic Terminal and T3 can use yung secondary runways since... maliit na jets lang naman gagamitin nila....
Plus yung mga small cargo XD



Tapos T1, T2, T4 and yung isang cargo can use the prmary runway :p

Pasensya na...I'm a dreamer. Malay ba natin...dreams do come true naman eh.

Side note lang. There's nothing wrong with being a dreamer per se. I just hope you don't end up like many people who are just dreamers (and complainers) but actually never do anything to solve a problem they come to identify. The future is bright with passionate dreamers such as yourself if said dreamers will also become passionate doers. Otherwise, our country will just end up getting deluded in dreams that may never know the meaning of the word, "realization." :cheers1:

@berdee...yan eksakto ang nasa isip ko. :banana:

If my vision is to be implemented...I think runway 13/31 being wider and longer (at 3,200 m) than before, can support planes as big as the B747 and B777 already. That can greatly ease the traffic of runway 06/24.

Side note lang. There's nothing wrong with being a dreamer per se. I just hope you don't end up like many people who are just dreamers (and complainers) but actually never do anything to solve a problem they come to identify. The future is bright with passionate dreamers such as yourself if said dreamers will also become passionate doers. Otherwise, our country will just end up getting deluded in dreams that may never know the meaning of the word, "realization." :cheers1:

Thanks sulong! Dun worry...I put my dreams into actions too. Somehow I'll get involved with this project. :banana:

@paulo. question, how do u get the Rwy 13/31 extended to 3.2 kms?

@habagatcentral1...there will be a great price to pay to extend runway 13/31 to 3200m. It would mean eating up some space of the Baclaran area. It's the same as with the other expansion programs in my vision...eat up more private/public spaces. It's a tough one...but I can't think of any other mean to expand NAIA.

At least extending the runway would mean eating up A LOT less space compared to building a new terminal.

Though I would LOVE to see that kind of terminal configuration, don't you think it's a bit costly and disorganized. I believe that a minimalist approach would best solve the NAIA problem by having all carriers "under one roof" as what Beijing did with it's new terminal having all airlines of the same alliance under a single terminal.

@habagatcentral1...there will be a great price to pay to extend runway 13/31 to 3200m. It would mean eating up some space of the Baclaran area. It's the same as with the other expansion programs in my vision...eat up more private/public spaces. It's a tough one...but I can't think of any other mean to expand NAIA.

then you have to increase the width too as it's only 45m... then you might also have to move the taxiways adjacent to 13/31 as the separation will surely be very close if you're gonna put 747 there... simply put, very long and complex process :D

:cheers:

then you have to increase the width too as it's only 45m... then you might also have to move the taxiways adjacent to 13/31 as the separation will surely be very close if you're gonna put 747 there... simply put, very long and complex process :D

:cheers:
@pi_malejana yes, in my drawing...it's got the same width as 06/24

At least extending the runway would mean eating up A LOT less space compared to building a new terminal.

Though I would LOVE to see that kind of terminal configuration, don't you think it's a bit costly and disorganized. I believe that a minimalist approach would best solve the NAIA problem by having all carriers "under one roof" as what Beijing did with it's new terminal having all airlines of the same alliance under a single terminal.
i think we can apply the minimalist approach that you're referring to sa DMIA.

We can also apply something such as that to NAIA but it would take a lot of work.

@paulo. question, how do u get the Rwy 13/31 extended to 3.2 kms?

It's on the markings on the safe length the plane can fly out of, if you remove the old Domestic flight and the starting point is at where the tarmac area it will make it, light A330s were able to take off from that runway, what more if you can lengthen the starting point. If you look at the old pics, the actual length of runway 13/30 is about the same length as the other one. But if you look at the white markings, it would make the runway looks shorter. If they are able to lengthened and widened it, NAIA would have two fully functional runways.

then you have to increase the width too as it's only 45m... then you might also have to move the taxiways adjacent to 13/31 as the separation will surely be very close if you're gonna put 747 there... simply put, very long and complex process :D

:cheers:
This might be true, I know in the past they have talked about lengthening and widenning 13/31.

There is a taxiway right down where the old Nayong filipino is so along with the taxiway facing T3. I remember that side on Nayong Filipino before as when i was little, I use to see PAL plane taxiing there from the domestic terminal. You can see it through the fence, maybe they can move that taxiway a bit more towards the old nayong filipino. Maybe...

I think there's room for expansion in MNL. There's the Nayong Pilipino (but don't demolish the Philippine Village Hotel), the terminals can expand up to Ninoy Aquino Ave and NAIA Rd. There's a colony of "informal settlers" there. BTW, Why is it na hindi matapos tapos ang CRK? Kulang ba sa funds?

This is the image:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5314/5912278012_320b0a6b87.jpg

If you look at this picture, there is infact a taxiway real close to the old Nayong Filipino property and another taxiway facing T1 and if you all would notice, runway06/24 only have taxiway on the same side where T1 and T2 are built.


I also see a lot of room for expansion on T2 on the international side. They could just build an extension on that end and house all the remaining local carriers there from the T4.

THIS IS MY OPINION i dont think we need to expand NAIA YET perhaps if air traffic shoots up then yes we need to expand but 2 runways i think is just fine and we have 3 terminals while 1 domestic perhaps since we do not have enough PONDO we could just renovate T1 which is actually planned but i think we all have our own opinion =)

@habagatcentral1...there will be a great price to pay to extend runway 13/31 to 3200m. It would mean eating up some space of the Baclaran area. It's the same as with the other expansion programs in my vision...eat up more private/public spaces. It's a tough one...but I can't think of any other mean to expand NAIA.

Actually, so much price that Noynoy might raise his eyebrows. :lol:

We also have to consider Parañaque River and the existing buildings and skyscrapers. In the southern end, the houses, C-5 Extension or Parañaque Spillway, would simply be too much to pay.

In other words, we may have overgrown NAIA. The most practical way is to open up a new gateway.

I think there's room for expansion in MNL. There's the Nayong Pilipino (but don't demolish the Philippine Village Hotel), the terminals can expand up to Ninoy Aquino Ave and NAIA Rd. There's a colony of "informal settlers" there. BTW, Why is it na hindi matapos tapos ang CRK? Kulang ba sa funds?

This is the image:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5314/5912278012_320b0a6b87.jpg

Yes there is quite a lot of room for expanding the terminals. But once again it's not the terminals that we need to expand first. It's the runways. Even if you make the world's largest terminal at NAIA, at the current capacity of the runways, expanding the terminals is useless. And we're not talking length of runways, we're talking number and configuration of runways. BTW, it's not kulang sa funds, it's maling paggamit sa funds.

I am doubtful about Clark. It's too far. And if they say they will connect it via Northrail, never mind. What kind of rail line would run through there? Poorly laid rails? Spectacular view of informal settlers? Surplus trains? Trains that get derailed all the time? Trains that struggle to reach 25kph? And to add to that, trains that bump into cars at intersections all the time?



THIS IS MY OPINION i dont think we need to expand NAIA YET perhaps if air traffic shoots up then yes we need to expand but 2 runways i think is just fine and we have 3 terminals while 1 domestic perhaps since we do not have enough PONDO we could just renovate T1 which is actually planned but i think we all have our own opinion =)

I think the opposite. Considering the economic growth of the Philippines, I think it's a good idea to expand the airports ASAP. T1 is running at over capacity, T2 is at capacity, T3 with the rapid expansion of Cebu Pacific and plans for other carriers to transfer here, pretty soon, T3 will reach capacity too, and as for the domestic terminal, I don't know why it's still operational considering its age and structural condition. I'm not sure if it's complete but T1 is being renovated.

My opinion is, we need to foresee how this country will grow and plan ahead. We should not wait for it (air traffic shoots up, et al) to arrive and then that's the only time we move because that will only cause delays, gridlocks, and inconveniences and then eventually that economic growth will go bye-bye. I think what Filipino architects, engineers and planners lack is foresight. A common attitude is that we only live in "the now".



You see the problems this country is facing now? It's the result of poor urban planning.

I am doubtful about Clark. It's too far. And if they say they will connect it via Northrail, never mind. What kind of rail line would run through there? Poorly laid rails? Spectacular view of informal settlers? Surplus trains? Trains that get derailed all the time? Trains that struggle to reach 25kph? And to add to that, trains that bump into cars at intersections all the time?


you see, maganda na sana ung mga sinabi mo eh, but then you revealed your ignorance in some aspects of the project like this one...:ohno:

perhaps you don't know that Northrail is designed to avoid ALL at-grade intersections... it will have viaducts to allow for seamless operations... the IS have been relocated from Caloocan all the way to Clark...

please research more before you post your doubts and/or anxieties here...;)

Actually, the first statement @medviation made about runway configuration and the airport capacity is not entirely accurate, I am not saying its a dumb idea, dont get me wrong because if the old Kai Tak airport in HK was able to handle 35 million passengers yearly with a single runway, what more with NAIA with an existing two runways? 13/30 can be lengthened and widened while runway 06/24 remains "as is". NAIA is not the only airport in the world with an intersecting runways. The ones in YVR or vancouver has intersecting runway until they added a third one. He is correct however that NAIA does not need expansion at this point unless they tear down the Old Manila Domestic Airport or T4 then house Zest Air and SeAir in t2 when expanded down to old Nayong filipino or else trainsfer them to T3. With some international legacy carriers trasfering to T3, we pretty much can be assured of decreased congestions in T1, for anotehr 10 years perhaps, but, with the development of DMIA and if only some of the legacy carriers can be convinced to transfer there, then the congestions in Manila is solved as DMIA would be picking up some of it's load from NAIA which is why DMIA will work as an overflow terminal and subsiquently perhaps a full pledge secondary gateway to the nation's capital.


On Pi_malejannah's comment - yes, we just have to leave things the way it is for now. DMIA would definitely be helpful in decongesting NAIA and if the plan push through with ovehead rail or whatever they suggested , monorail, train service would definitely help with the travel from the business district areas in Metro Manila. But with the monorail service put in place which also serve as a mass transit if they really want this train more profitable, the government do need to work seriously in connecting the major highways such as C5, C6 that would connect SLEX to NLEX, as I am pretty sure most of the airline travellers who are all bound to any international destination would have hard time entertaining the thought of going through trains 100% unless they are traveling light, then the major highway would be very useful especially for highrollers who usually takes limo service.

I also noticed that 13/30 is still very much being utilized as evident in this photo where the plane took of from that runway where you can pretty much tell the view is overlooking runway 06/24. I imagine this is an A320 flying out of that runway and since the increase in NAIA's air travel is mostly on domestic traffic, the government should concentrate on these, although, I knew for a fact that sometimes an A330 can also fly out of this runway if the load is not heavy. All the wide body aircrafts such as B747 and B777 to A340 can probably utilize 06/24.

NAIA (old pics)

http://i53.tinypic.com/30if79g.jpg

On this one, you can tell that PAL B747 is taking off in the runway facing T1 and T2. But I understand that having parallel runway would be much easier and quicker for simultaneous landing and take off. I was just stating that with the intersecting runway, the operations can still be managed by ATC where simultaneous landing and take off can be commenced.
Taken last Saturday on a gloomy day.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2khl4o.jpg

Yes we the philippines need more infrastructure proj. including NAIA but the question is when is the right time to do so when we still need to improve other airports infrastructure also of course includes building bridges,highways,tunnels,streets,airports,sea ports and etc. we are still dealing with poverty and hunger so there is a lot that the government has to do but most importantly is where will the government get the funds?

Yes there is quite a lot of room for expanding the terminals. But once again it's not the terminals that we need to expand first. It's the runways. Even if you make the world's largest terminal at NAIA, at the current capacity of the runways, expanding the terminals is useless. And we're not talking length of runways, we're talking number and configuration of runways. BTW, it's not kulang sa funds, it's maling paggamit sa funds.....

You see the problems this country is facing now? It's the result of poor urban planning.+1

Actually, the first statement @medviation made about runway configuration and the airport capacity is not entirely accurate, and I am not saying its a dumb idea, dont get me wrong but because if the old Kai Tak airport in HK was able to handle 35 million passengers yearly with a single runway, what more with NAIA with two runways? 13/30 can be lengthened and widened while runway 06/24 remains "as ease".It took me a minute to figure out what you're trying to convey. Did you mean to write, "...runway 06/24 remains 'as is' "? That would make more sense. Mahirap basahin yung sinulat mo, paki-proofread lang bagong mag-post. Thanks.

Yes we the philippines need more infrastructure proj. including NAIA but the question is when is the right time to do so when we still need to improve other airports infrastructure also of course includes building bridges,highways,tunnels,streets,airports,sea ports and etc. we are still dealing with poverty and hunger so there is a lot that the government has to do but most importantly is where will the government get the funds?

the problem with the infra projects is the commission culture. no matter how much money or feasibility studies you throw at them, they will always end up lacking because right out of the gate the budget is already reduced by 40% or more.

+1

It took me a minute to figure out what you're trying to convey. Did you mean to write, "...runway 06/24 remains 'as is' "? That would make more sense. Mahirap basahin yung sinulat mo, paki-proofread lang bagong mag-post. Thanks.

Sorry AS IS, yes you're absolutely correct, my apology. I was already in a hurry to head out because a couple of friends were on their way to the gym and I was supposed to meet them in 30 mins.

Yes we the philippines need more infrastructure proj. including NAIA but the question is when is the right time to do so when we still need to improve other airports infrastructure also of course includes building bridges,highways,tunnels,streets,airports,sea ports and etc. we are still dealing with poverty and hunger so there is a lot that the government has to do but most importantly is where will the government get the funds?


the problem with the infra projects is the commission culture. no matter how much money or feasibility studies you throw at them, they will always end up lacking because right out of the gate the budget is already reduced by 40% or more.

Yeah, we just have to be a little bit more patient. I know it is hard to do but we can't all do it all at once, not with the a slow moving economy, poverty and the need to provide more jobs for all the filipinos in the Philippines. This is really a high time for the Philippine govenment to think this over more carefully because if foreign countries started limiting it hiring or perhaps shuting down its door for filipino overseas workers just like KSA is planning to do, what would happen if a great number of OFWs return to the Philippines only to find themselves out of work and penniless.


and to react on BREAKING NEWS and Mr Sandman about lacking funds? I believe both are correct, its the lack of funds and mismanagement...

Let's face the truth that CORRUPTION is killing our country and thats the reason why we always lack of funds we filipinos dont want to pay our early taxes but than again we are forced not to pay because we know that there are just so many CORRUPT government officials here in the philippines who are hungry for money and its a little bit funny we filipinos are some of the most closest people to GOD spiritually but government officials have no shame STEALING money from the people of the Republic of the Philippines so the only solution for the government is to UTANG from our neighboring countries which we still have to pay leaving us in debt thats why most of our national budget just wont fit.

^^^^Let's face the truth that CORRUPTION is killing our country and thats the reason why we always lack of funds we filipinos dont want to pay our early taxes but than again we are forced not to pay because we know that there are just so many CORRUPT government officials here in the philippines who are hungry for money and its a little bit funny we filipinos are some of the most closest people to GOD spiritually but government officials have no shame STEALING money from the people of the Republic of the Philippines so the only solution for the government is to UTANG from our neighboring countries which we still have to pay leaving us in debt thats why most of our national budget just wont fit.

^^ agree

Let's face the truth that CORRUPTION is killing our country and thats the reason why we always lack of funds we filipinos dont want to pay our early taxes but than again we are forced not to pay because we know that there are just so many CORRUPT government officials here in the philippines who are hungry for money and its a little bit funny we filipinos are some of the most closest people to GOD spiritually but government officials have no shame STEALING money from the people of the Republic of the Philippines so the only solution for the government is to UTANG from our neighboring countries which we still have to pay leaving us in debt thats why most of our national budget just wont fit.

Holy run-on sentence!

BEWARE OF THIS CUSTOMS OFFICER AT NAIA 3!:bash:

Read the story here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2237128962856&set=a.2157447770876.2125718.1086931584&type=1&ref=nf

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/alfinsky/Custom.jpg

Grabe naman yang customs na yan!!! I just noticed that the customs at NAIA-3 are more strict compared to NAIA-2? I never experienced bag searching at the customs on both NAIA-1/2. But my first time at NAIA-3, they had our hand carry bags pass through customs x-ray, and luggage opened too. Are they targeting budget airlines passengers? :D

ang kapal naman ng mukha yang customs officer na yan! Pa iba iba yung sinasabi para lang makakuha ng lagay... hay buhay! :ohno: :ohno:

^^ That guy and more of them are busted!!! :lol:


Ang problema lang, baka si Ms. Dizon naman ang ma demanda...

last week, sa loob ng naia 1 wala akong na-experience na di maganda. sa mga airport taxi lang kasi pasimpleng bumubulong ng, "ikaw na bahala sa amin... hati-hati na kami..." napangiti ako sabay pasok sa taxi at sara ng pinto.:lol:

Ireklamo yang customs officer na yan! Salot sa Bayan!!!

--

Let's face the truth that CORRUPTION is killing our country and thats the reason why we always lack of funds we filipinos dont want to pay our early taxes but than again we are forced not to pay because we know that there are just so many CORRUPT government officials here in the philippines who are hungry for money and its a little bit funny we filipinos are some of the most closest people to GOD spiritually but government officials have no shame STEALING money from the people of the Republic of the Philippines so the only solution for the government is to UTANG from our neighboring countries which we still have to pay leaving us in debt thats why most of our national budget just wont fit.

Corruption is systemic, it is an enabler. It is time the government switch to total automation, where politician do not actually receive transfers in cash, all payables are paid from the treasury by cheque or bank transfers, except maybe petty cash for their daily operation. Otherwise, erase the word advance, liquidation, cash transfers etc.

Ireklamo yang customs officer na yan! Salot sa Bayan!!!

Hindi lang reklamo! I-firing squad sa Luneta!


Let's face the truth that CORRUPTION is killing our country and thats the reason why we always lack of funds we filipinos dont want to pay our early taxes but than again we are forced not to pay because we know that there are just so many CORRUPT government officials here in the philippines who are hungry for money and its a little bit funny we filipinos are some of the most closest people to GOD spiritually but government officials have no shame STEALING money from the people of the Republic of the Philippines so the only solution for the government is to UTANG from our neighboring countries which we still have to pay leaving us in debt thats why most of our national budget just wont fit.

not just that, and the people like the IS who doesn't like developments and those people who stick with those corrupt politicians who kill our country! They should all be arrested and be tried in a Military Tribunal and be executed at once!

Hindi lang reklamo! I-firing squad sa Luneta!

not just that, and the people like the IS who doesn't like developments and those people who stick with those corrupt politicians who kill our country! They should all be arrested and be tried in a Military Tribunal and be executed at once!

So I guess dapat na ring i-firing squad ka na rin kasama ko at ang milyong milyong mga Pilipino. Almost every citizen in this country might have committed even once a form of corruption.

Corruption is systemic, it is an enabler. It is time the government switch to total automation, where politician do not actually receive transfers in cash, all payables are paid from the treasury by cheque or bank transfers, except maybe petty cash for their daily operation. Otherwise, erase the word advance, liquidation, cash transfers etc.

Good idea. It seems to work in the election, but that's the only thing, you get what you bargained for but when it comes to automation system that would help emensely in fighting corruption.

So I guess dapat na ring i-firing squad ka na rin kasama ko at ang milyong milyong mga Pilipino. Almost every citizen in this country might have committed even once a form of corruption.

Sobra naman yata yan. I'd rather be displayed at CCP with a boner exposed.:lol:

If only we have a lot of funds they could probably reclaim the area near sangley and make a large airport with maglev and bridge connection to Manila
-Sangley International Airport (SGL)
-Sangley Airport Express
-Sangley-Baycity Bridge
How does that sound?

I think it'd be a waste seeing as DMIA already has the provisions for expansion necessary for an international gateway.

If only we have a lot of funds they could probably reclaim the area near sangley and make a large airport with maglev and bridge connection to Manila

What we don't have in financial resources we can make up for with a vast amount of undeveloped land within the country.

And as kingdiz_55 said, DMIA already has provisions for blah.

If only we have a lot of funds they could probably reclaim the area near sangley and make a large airport with maglev and bridge connection to Manila
-Sangley International Airport (SGL)
-Sangley Airport Express
-Sangley-Baycity Bridge
How does that sound?

That's fine, day dreaming is free :lol::lol:

As much as I think DMIA is still far from MM, I think it's a better option if all the infrastructure plans came into fruitation and soon. DMIA does have the facility already it would definitely be cheaper to develop that area. If NAIA is retained, just like what happened in Haneda Airport, it would be mostly domestic operations and limited international flights since it has 2 existing runways also. That would probably take more than 10 or 15 years from now. Since LCCs are booming and if it is really meant to be, all LCCs can operate in DMIA because having an airport there would draw a big number of passengers also that would relieve NAIA of congestions.

I propose a Tri-Airport System here in Urban Luzon similar to JFK-LGA-EWR.

Ninoy Aquino International Airport - MNL
Diosdado Macapagal International Airport - CRK

Both will share International and Domestic Arrivals.

Sangley Point Airport - SGL

For private planes and some domestic carriers and some international budget carriers.

I propose a Tri-Airport System here in Urban Luzon similar to JFK-LGA-EWR.

Ninoy Aquino International Airport - MNL
Diosdado Macapagal International Airport - CRK

Both will share International and Domestic Arrivals.

Sangley Point Airport - SGL

For private planes and some domestic carriers and some international budget carriers.

Given our financial status, I find this highly implausible given the fact that we'd have to take care of three different structures whereas if we had one structure, the maintenance, oversight of it would be much more simplified.

As for Sangley, it's too close to NAIA to be a viable airport with regular services. The approaches would be too dangerous, and so on.

Given our financial status, I find this highly implausible given the fact that we'd have to take care of three different structures whereas if we had one structure, the maintenance, oversight of it would be much more simplified.

As for Sangley, it's too close to NAIA to be a viable airport with regular services. The approaches would be too dangerous, and so on.

Good point.

Guys, I really hate spamers. But please help me and like this Facebook page. Thank you a lot!

Correction:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Metro-Manila-Philippines/128676603863681?sk=wall

I propose a Tri-Airport System here in Urban Luzon similar to JFK-LGA-EWR.

Ninoy Aquino International Airport - MNL
Diosdado Macapagal International Airport - CRK

Both will share International and Domestic Arrivals.

Sangley Point Airport - SGL

For private planes and some domestic carriers and some international budget carriers.

Sorry, that set up wouldn't apply in Luzon, do you see the passenger stats in JFK-LGA and EWR? They are not even connected with one another. All three terminals are operating and expanding independently based on the market and demands on each cities and states. In other words they don't belong in the same league.

NAIA maybe enjoying faster growth but that's more on domestic travel brought about by LCCs and the international passenger has also been very slow with 7 million passengers yearly with a bulk of its travelers are OFWs. DMIA passenger increase has been very slow in the past 6 to 7 years since it has only been staying in 800thousand passenger yearly. This is a far cry for the passenger stats in JFK-LGA and EWR where the travelers are mostly leisure and a big number of business travelers.

and oh I agree with Kingdiz as well.

The best solution, IMO, is to have one, airport with provisions for expansion, with one terminal to house ALL airlines. This is still achievable with NAIA though a lot of money is necessary. As for DMIA, it's ready and waiting.

With the biggest bulk of passenger activities are mostly on domestic travel, that's where the government should concentrate on. With all honesty? T3 will answer the congestions in T1 since T3 is capable of handling 15million passengers yearly when the current statistics is only 7Million passengers yearly. Based on the current pace on the international growth, it will really take a very long while before T3 reach its maximum capacity. That would be crucial in DMIA growth, this is why it is wiser for DMIA to concentrate on LCC service. It would be wonderful if DMIA would house the first LCC that would cater transpacific travel to serve NA continent from the Philippines. Calling AirPhil or Cebu Pacific? Because the way I see it, Air Asia Philippines would grab that very first opportunity. Now, that would grab the market from PAL easing down the congestions in T2. IMO, once T3 is in full swing, they should encourage Cebu Pacific to transfer in T1 and hub there exclusively just as how PAL with T2 that needs expansion in the international wing.

^^ Yes but by the time CebPac moves to T1, the passengers that'd be going through them in Manila would have already increased, hence, putting the terminal above it's capacity.

^^ Yes but by the time CebPac moves to T1, the passengers that'd be going through them in Manila would have already increased, hence, putting the terminal above it's capacity.

I'm sure if they have Ceb Pac operating fully in CRK would probably break that load between NAIA T1 and DMIA if they can attract domestic travelers from North Luzon and north of Metro Manila, but who knows???

I'm sure if they have Ceb Pac operating fully in CRK would probably break that load between NAIA T1 and DMIA if they can attract domestic travelers from North Luzon and north of Metro Manila, but who knows???

CebPac wouldn't move there since they have a large chunk of pax here and the fact that they have the best terminal.

CebPac wouldn't move there since they have a large chunk of pax here and the fact that they have the best terminal.

No, I mean Cebu Pacific is already operating there right? I thought I saw a picture in the past with Cebu pacific in CRK tarmac. They can operate both in NAIA and DMIA just like Asianna airlines.

No, I mean Cebu Pacific is already operating there right? I thought I saw a picture in the past with Cebu pacific in CRK tarmac. They can operate both in NAIA and DMIA just like Asianna airlines.

Yes that DO operate at DMIA but what you were saying in your previous post was abou full operations and now it's about operations on both airports. Your posts are contradicting each other, my friend.

^^ Yes but by the time CebPac moves to T1, the passengers that'd be going through them in Manila would have already increased, hence, putting the terminal above it's capacity.

I'm sure if they have Ceb Pac operating fully in CRK would probably break that load between NAIA T1 and DMIA if they can attract domestic travelers from North Luzon and north of Metro Manila, but who knows???




Yes that DO operate at DMIA but what you were saying in your previous post was abou full operations and now it's about operations on both airports. Your posts are contradicting each other, my friend.

I think you misunderstood what I said. Initially, I suggested that 5J should move to t1, right? Considering I already knew that 5j is operating in DMIA, 5J is just partially operating in DMIA because majority of their operations are still in NAIA. I think this is where the misunderstanding is. I do mean that 5J can hub in both NAIA and DMIA with equal footing where they can offer both international and domestic services from both terminals. I am not sure which one of the two location would still enjoy a bigger/smaller bulk of travelers but increasing more flights coming out from DMIA would give 5J an almost equal leverage from that of NAIA's. Since Asiana Airlines operates in both in NAIA and DMIA terminals, I gave that as example knowing that ASIANA haslesser frequencies in DMIA comparing to NAIA, they, however, still gathered enough market for both. This is the model I can envision 5J would be following albeit they are of different service packages and slightly different clientele market.

^^ it seems that i HAVE misunderstood your posts. I apologize.

I DO agree on the dual operations, though since this should guarantee 5J immediate slots if ever DMIA becomes our "international gateway" and should establish them as a key player in providing pax transport for northern Luzon.

^^ it seems that i HAVE misunderstood your posts. I apologize.

I DO agree on the dual operations, though since this should guarantee 5J immediate slots if ever DMIA becomes our "international gateway"

No, you're fine, no need for an apology. Words can be misleading sometimes, you asked that question like a true gentleman.

I'm just curious, what was Paris Hilton's impression of NAIA Terminal 1? :shifty:

I'm just curious, what was Paris Hilton's impression of NAIA Terminal 1? :shifty:

"that's HOT"

Mga Boss, Patulong naman, I need information about sa NAIA Terminal 3, Tungkol sa architecture, sa architect/s, management and administration ng airport. Kung sino man nakakaalam, patulong naman po..TIA!

"that's HOT"

that's HOT... NOT!!!

Sorry, that set up wouldn't apply in Luzon, do you see the passenger stats in JFK-LGA and EWR? They are not even connected with one another. All three terminals are operating and expanding independently based on the market and demands on each cities and states. In other words they are in a different league.

NAIA maybe enjoying faster growth but that's more on domestic travel brought about by LCCs and the international passenger has also been very slow with 7 million passengers yearly with a bulk of its travelers are OFWs. DMIA passenger increase has been very slow in the past 6 to 7 years since it has only been staying in 800thousand passenger yearly. This is a far cry for the passenger stats in JFK-LGA and EWR where the travelers are mostly leisure and a big number of business travelers.

and oh I agree with Kingdiz as well.

If only CAAP/MIAA could bring back the FAA Category 1 to NAIA International traffic would grow at a faster rate. Unfortunately though, authorities are not that good in enforcing and promoting what should be. And this must not linger on. :ohno:

One good example is Mactan Cebu International Airport wherein it was lately declared as the safest airport in the entire Philippines. It has met ICAO standards and is by far the only airport that is on Category 1. Now it could serve US flights; but still it depends upon the airlines to serve this route. Neighboring airports ask MCIA for their management style and tactics why, despite their old airport terminal, they have been declared so. :)

With the biggest bulk of passenger activities are mostly on domestic travel, that's where the government should concentrate on. With all honesty? T3 will answer the congestions in T1 since T3 is capable of handling 15million passengers yearly when the current statistics is only 7Million passengers yearly. Based on the current pace on the international growth, it will really take a very long while before T3 reach its maximum capacity. That would be crucial in DMIA growth, this is why it is wiser for DMIA to concentrate on LCC service. It would be wonderful if DMIA would house the first LCC that would cater transpacific travel to serve NA continent from the Philippines. Calling AirPhil or Cebu Pacific? Because the way I see it, Air Asia Philippines would grab that very first opportunity. Now, that would grab the market from PAL easing down the congestions in T2. IMO, once T3 is in full swing, they should encourage Cebu Pacific to transfer in T1 and hub there exclusively just as how PAL with T2 that needs expansion in the international wing.

We wish and hope for T3's full operations hopefully very soon. I heard next year. As for T2, I really hope that the government or even PAL itself should go back to the original plan wherein T2 was designed to be a domestic airport catering domestic flights of domestic airlines. Or better yet, expand T2 and have additional airbridges that serves a dual airbridge. Notice that airbridges in T2 is only a single retractable one. But in T3 it is double, unfortunately though, only narrow bodied aircraft utilized T3 whereon only the single retractable airbridge is being used upon contact on the aircraft. T3 is really designed to cater international flights and big planes. T2 is for smaller narrow body planes. But still revisions could be done.

I dream of making NAIA or DMIA as one of the leading and best airports in the world. I'll hope for the best until I die. :lol:

...MCIA... despite their old airport terminal, they have been declared so. :)

This is a very good thing. Just goes to show na hindi dahil bago, or dahil hindi "iconic" o "world class" ang architecture ay "pangit" na agad. Many people here prefer beauty that is only skin deep, I would assume. Yet they may not realize that being an eye candy does not make up for lack of efficiency, convenience, etc.

Gusto kailangan laging bago. Gusto development from the façade hoping that it would easily permeate every membrane of an institution, instead of starting development from the roots, from the core.

This is a very good thing. Just goes to show na hindi dahil bago, or dahil hindi "iconic" o "world class" ang architecture ay "pangit" na agad. Many people here prefer beauty that is only skin deep, I would assume. Yet they may not realize that being an eye candy does not make up for lack of efficiency, convenience, etc.

Gusto kailangan laging bago. Gusto development from the façade hoping that it would easily permeate every membrane of an institution, instead of starting development from the roots, from the core.

And if the skies of the Philippines is on Category 1 standards, I doubt, international traffic would remain as it is at present. It will really boost not only international traffic but also our economy for heaven's sake. Airports and other infrastructures are sign of a good and stable economy. Good airports=good economy, good tourists influx etc., Bad Airport=gov't mismanagement, bad economy, low tourists and passenger traffic. :ohno:

OT: Your signature may be too big.

--

Back on topic:

Well, to a certain degree I agree with you. However, I don't think category 1 airports/skies are core driving forces for PH tourism to bloom. We'd have to stop stroking ourselves for a while and take a walk outside and look at Metro Manila (MM) as it is and stop rationalizing things so that the present state of MM would be convenient for us to accept.

I always keep telling myself, if I were a tourist, I would find it hard to do touristy things here. It's very difficult to go from one place of interest to another. There are other, more organized cities, so why would I try make it difficult for myself and go to a mess of a city like MM? As for ecotourism, I don't really know much. I find it difficult to go to ecotourism spots, then again, that difficulty in transit might be part of the treat for ecotourists.

One more thing is that there really isn't much to see nor do here. If PH tourism is what you aim to achieve, I don't think category 1 skies would do much for it unless your area is tourist friendly and has a lot of places of interests. (Sorry, I think that kind of got out of topic.)

OT: Your signature may be too big.

--

Back on topic:

Well, to a certain degree I agree with you. However, I don't think category 1 airports/skies are core driving forces for PH tourism to bloom. We'd have to stop stroking ourselves for a while and take a walk outside and look at Metro Manila (MM) as it is and stop rationalizing things so that the present state of MM would be convenient for us to accept.

I always keep telling myself, if I were a tourist, I would find it hard to do touristy things here. It's very difficult to go from one place of interest to another. There are other, more organized cities, so why would I try make it difficult for myself and go to a mess of a city like MM? As for ecotourism, I don't really know much. I find it difficult to go to ecotourism spots, then again, that difficulty in transit might be part of the treat for ecotourists.

One more thing is that there really isn't much to see nor do here. If PH tourism is what you aim to achieve, I don't think category 1 skies would do much for it unless your area is tourist friendly and has a lot of places of interests. (Sorry, I think that kind of got out of topic.)

^^ I'm sorry but I don't agree to a certain extent; I'm also in for tourism. Who does not? I don't agree to a certain extent because if you don't have Category 1 airport standards, what's the use of having a well organized tourism program, yet too few air traffic lands in your main gateway? How can one country boost up it's number of foreign tourists if too few flights come in/out of MNL because of banned airlines to come and go of our main gateway. I saw it somewhere here that there are roughly 7Million International Traffic a year compared to the ever booming Domestic Traffic. Tourism comes hand-in-hand with your air traffic, civil aviation, etc. The sad part for NAIA/MIAA is that our airports are the first and the last spot/place that tourists see. A sad thing though is that our airports are not that good enough compared to our neighboring countries.

We really need to get our airports to Category 1 standards and everything else will follow. Our country needs to be aggressive and beat the odds. Again, all of these issues boils down to proper government management. :bash:

^^ Cat2 affects mostly flights into the US. I don't think it would affect asian regional, middleastern and oceanic flights. EU has only one airlines servicing MNL to begin with so that market isn't too affected specially when the passengers goes through middleastern and asian carriers. Ofcourse Philippine carriers are banned to europe as well, but then again PAL does not serve EU cities any longer for a little while already.

How are the loads of KLM between MNL and AMS?

^^ Cat2 affects mostly flights into the US. I don't think it would affect asian regional, middleastern and oceanic flights. EU has only one airlines servicing MNL to begin with so that market isn't too affected specially when the passengers goes through middleastern and asian carriers. Ofcourse Philippine carriers are banned to europe as well, but then again PAL does not serve EU cities any longer for a little while already.

Category 2 status of the aviation industry in the Philippines is doing more harm to the image of the Philippines. The sooner they get their acts together the better for the Philippines and its people.

Category 2 status of the aviation industry in the Philippines is doing more harm to the image of the Philippines. The sooner they get their acts together the better for the Philippines and its people.

Image wise, yes it does. This is why EU banned any Philippine carriers to fly into any EU air space, but that does not prevent EU carriers to fly into the Philippines which the Philippine government cannot afford to lose either, this is why they cannot ban EU carriers to fly into the Philippines in retaliation if ever the Phil Gov contemplated these act towards EU in the past.

Anyhow, there are no EU carriers flying into the Philippines except for KLM and sadly,at the same time PAL's stopped its operations in Europe for some time already so this is a non-issue right now, it's the Philippine government, PAL or any Philippine carriers are the ones problematic when they can't expand its operations in the US.

What I was trying to drive at earlier is that, Asian and middleeastern carriers can absorb what Philippine carriers are lacking for the time being since they can freely fly into the Philippines skies (and vice versa with Philippine carriers into Asia, ME and Oceania),atleast until after cat2 is lifted, so, tourism wise if there is infact a remarkable increase in tourism travels, should not affect the industry when the tourists can opt to travel via other foreign carriers such as Cathy, Ethiad, Emirates, Singapore Air, etc etc etc ... for tourists to get to the Philipppines.

DP

Image wise, yes it does. This is why EU banned any Philippine carriers to fly into any EU air space, but that does not prevent EU carriers to fly into the Philippines which the Philippine government cannot afford to lose either, this is why they cannot ban EU carriers to fly into the Philippines in retaliation if ever the Phil Gov contemplated these act towards EU in the past.

Anyhow, there are no EU carriers flying into the Philippines except for KLM and sadly,at the same time PAL's stopped its operations in Europe for some time already so this is a non-issue right now, it's the Philippine government, PAL or any Philippine carriers are the ones problematic when they can't expand its operations in the US.

What I was trying to drive at earlier is that, Asian and middleeastern carriers can absorb what Philippine carriers are lacking for the time being since they can freely fly into the Philippines skies (and vice versa with Philippine carriers into Asia, ME and Oceania),atleast until after cat2 is lifted, so, tourism wise if there is infact a remarkable increase in tourism travels, should not affect the industry when the tourists can opt to travel via other foreign carriers such as Cathy, Ethiad, Emirates, Singapore Air, etc etc etc ... for tourists to get to the Philipppines.

The point of the category downgrade is a safety issue which is big on air travellers. Lack of flights in and out of the Philippines is not beneficial to the people and the country. Whether its PAL or another airline, the fact that PAL or another airline cannot expand to the United States (large market)proves my point. Image of the Philippines overseas is already stained and battered, Category 2 rating only makes it worse. Category downgrade does not and will not benefit the Philippines.

Kumusta na ang CR sa NAIA 1? Dyan ako dadaan very soon eh. Hehehe.

^^ There's ongoing renovation of other bathrooms in the pre-departure area.

Other than CAT-II, NAIA has become a minor air hub in South East Asia. The fact there are only a few direct flights to other countries and only 1 to Europe.

If airports such as DMIA would be improved plus open skies policy, Filipinos flying to London, Johannesburg or even to Chicago or New York can fly direct without having to stop-over at a certain airport.

^^ There's ongoing renovation of other bathrooms in the pre-departure area.

Yay! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

a report on T1 from GMA News...

http://www.gmanews.tv/video/88241/bt-naia-terminal-i-congested-at-luma-na

^^Wala namang akong narinig na ganun. They said it reached its capacity by 1991.

Nagtataka lang ako ano. Bakit kaya yung dinesign ng mga student dun parang y shaped terminal pa din? Parang T1 lang. I find that design to small and unexpandable. I think mas ok yung pahaba tulad ng mga airports ng neighbors natin.

^^Wala namang akong narinig na ganun. They said it reached its capacity by 1991.

ah onga no..:doh: mahina na pandinig ko, kala ko 1981, 1991 pala... :bash:

Other than CAT-II, NAIA has become a minor air hub in South East Asia. The fact there are only a few direct flights to other countries and only 1 to Europe.

If airports such as DMIA would be improved plus open skies policy, Filipinos flying to London, Johannesburg or even to Chicago or New York can fly direct without having to stop-over at a certain airport.

How long has it been since the Category downgrade? What is keeping the Philippine aviation from gaining Category 1 status. I don't want to bother google it but why is there a lack of urgency from local officials?

How long has it been since the Category downgrade? What is keeping the Philippine aviation from gaining Category 1 status. I don't want to bother google it but why is there a lack of urgency from local officials?

There is a lack of urgency for everything from local officials.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Other than CAT-II, NAIA has become a minor air hub in South East Asia. The fact there are only a few direct flights to other countries and only 1 to Europe.

If airports such as DMIA would be improved plus open skies policy, Filipinos flying to London, Johannesburg or even to Chicago or New York can fly direct without having to stop-over at a certain airport.there is not enough demand for passengers flying to London, Johannesburg??? or even to Chicago or New York hence there are no directs flights.
that is why foreign carriers like air france, british airways, swissair, air canada, alitalia etc stopped their operations in manila, open skies policy is not the solution. Its the low number of passengers using direct air connection and competition among the middle eastern carriers flying to europe and same as better connection to north america by united, cathay pacific or korean.. cheaper tickets by eva, chaina airlines, airchina, china southern to N. A. If there is a demand in NY, continental or united should have mounted direct flights.. concentration of pinoys are in the west coast

The point of the category downgrade is a safety issue which is big on air travellers. Lack of flights in and out of the Philippines is not beneficial to the people and the country. Whether its PAL or another airline, the fact that PAL or another airline cannot expand to the United States (large market)proves my point. Image of the Philippines overseas is already stained and battered, Category 2 rating only makes it worse. Category downgrade does not and will not benefit the Philippines.

Yes it really does affect everything; from safety to tourism. Again, everything boils down to proper gov't management. Make the image of the country's premiere gateway a good one, not just a good one but an excellent one and see how every other things and factors follow. that's why I totally agree with you.

The point of the category downgrade is a safety issue which is big on air travellers. Lack of flights in and out of the Philippines is not beneficial to the people and the country. Whether its PAL or another airline, the fact that PAL or another airline cannot expand to the United States (large market)proves my point. Image of the Philippines overseas is already stained and battered, Category 2 rating only makes it worse. Category downgrade does not and will not benefit the Philippines.

I agree with you about the image of the country being stained and battered and that Cat 2 issue made it worst. That would definitely not be very good for the country. I was just stating the fact that the cat 2 issue while it hinders the fact that the Philippine carriers cannot expand in the US, foreign airline carriers will still be able to expand if the market in the Philippine travelers (which are mostly pinoys and expinoys) is increasing and very much viable if deemed necessary. Sadly, that stigma about the Philippines is still attached to us.


The cat 2 is ofcourse a safety issue which is separate from the peace and order issue in the country, The Philippines. These safety issues applies on how the Philippine authorities are handling the proper measures which are mostly about proper documentations. True at the Philippine carriers may not expand in the US but it does not mean that US carriers such as Delta, Hawaiian Air and other airline companies such as Cathay, Singapore airways etc cannot. It is not the Philippine aviation who are handling foreign airline companies, maintenance, safety and such which from the previous FAA findings are on the aspects of maintenance documentation, crew training/retraining/recertification which all, IMO, are simple and ridiculous when local airline companies are mostly in compliance who has their own individual company wide audit, the Philippine aviation just didn't think of collecting datas that would prove Philippine carriers are infact in compliance. It's the lack of oversight on the Philippine authorities side. So, the point I am making here is that, IF it is infact that the image of the country is one of the emerging (which the Philippine dept is claiming) tourism mecca in Asia, even if the country has Cat 2 status, the number of tourist coming into the country would still be in droves.

How long has it been since the Category downgrade? What is keeping the Philippine aviation from gaining Category 1 status. I don't want to bother google it but why is there a lack of urgency from local officials?

That's gotta be pushing 3 to 4 years already. Imagine that...

There is a lack of urgency for everything from local officials.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Perhaps they still don't have the "know how"?? I know it's atleast 2 years in Arroyos administration that downgrade was never lifted, Pnoy is now in office for 14 months or so, that is definitely taking too long.

there is not enough demand for passengers flying to London, Johannesburg??? or even to Chicago or New York hence there are no directs flights.
that is why foreign carriers like air france, british airways, swissair, air canada, alitalia etc stopped their operations in manila, open skies policy is not the solution. Its the low number of passengers using direct air connection and competition among the middle eastern carriers flying to europe and same as better connection to north america by united, cathay pacific or korean.. cheaper tickets by eva, chaina airlines, airchina, china southern to N. A. If there is a demand in NY, continental or united should have mounted direct flights.. concentration of pinoys are in the west coast

I agree, while open skies are not necessarily a bad idea, I do not know how it will help improve the country's image overseas or how it will spur economic development and the tourism industry.

There is a lack of urgency for everything from local officials.:lol::lol::lol::lol:

SAD isn't it and because of the lack of urgency from elected officials majority of people lost faith and many move on OUT OF THE COUNTRY, my family and relatives included, to live a better life. SAD!!!:ohno:

I agree, while open skies are not necessarily a bad idea, I do not know how it will help improve the country's image overseas or how it will spur economic development and the tourism industry.

Tourism is the best tool in improving the image of the country, if the government cannot improve its image, at least the natural beauty of the country can BUT tourism cannot expand if the aviation industry in the Philippines is stuck on Category 2 status.

Airlines from the Philippines cannot expand overseas especially in the US and mind you, the East Coast has a large Filipino presence especially in New Jersey. It can be a viable expansion that will benefit any airline, you have a large Filipino presence and others that can visit the country.

^^Tourism is the best tool in improving the image of the country, if the government cannot improve its image, at least the natural beauty of the country can BUT tourism cannot expand if the aviation industry in the Philippines is stuck on Category 2 status.

Airlines from the Philippines cannot expand overseas especially in the US and mind you, the East Coast has a large Filipino presence especially in New Jersey. It can be a viable expansion that will benefit any airline, you have a large Filipino presence and others that can visit the country.

Wrong premise. ITs not true that tourism cannot expand because of CAT 2 status. Its a shame that ex-DOT secretary actually said that because he never understood the concept of AIRLINE BUSINESS and the aviation industry. To disprove the myth, foreign tourists arrival in the country has been growing steadily from the North American region 4 times in a row. If there was truth to the proposition then O and D would have decline.

CAT 2 status is not a hindrance to airline expansion and open skies is never the solution. I already told this forum that we have open skies in the Ramos era. Northwest Airlines can even land in Davao or Cebu if it wanted to but didn't. Singapore and Malaysia Airlines have rights to fly Cebu and Davao but it is only the former that is sending its affiliate Silk Air to that region. FIGURED WHY?

It is just unfortunate that our government hired the wrong administrators who doesn't know history.

And don't ever have the conception that PAL can't expand in the US because it can notwitstanding CAT 2. What it can't do is open new routes and fly new planes. But it can grow its hub to twice daily LAX/SFO if it wanted to because they have existing rights for those but it doesn't. It has been debated here numerous times and the issue crops up again because of some statement by ex-DOT secretary who simply have no idea how it actually works.

^^

Wrong premise. ITs not true that tourism cannot expand because of CAT 2 status. Its a shame that ex-DOT secretary actually said that because he never understood the concept of AIRLINE BUSINESS and the aviation industry. To disprove the myth, foreign tourists arrival in the country has been growing steadily from the North American region 4 times in a row. If there was truth to the proposition then O and D would have decline.

CAT 2 status is not a hindrance to airline expansion and open skies is never the solution. I already told this forum that we have open skies in the Ramos era. Northwest Airlines can even land in Davao or Cebu if it wanted to but didn't. Singapore and Malaysia Airlines have rights to fly Cebu and Davao but it is only the former that is sending its affiliate Silk Air to that region. FIGURED WHY?

It is just unfortunate that our government hired the wrong administrators who doesn't know history.

And don't ever have the conception that PAL can't expand in the US because it can notwitstanding CAT 2. What it can't do is open new routes and fly new planes. But it can grow its hub to twice daily LAX/SFO if it wanted to because they have existing rights for those but it doesn't. It has been debated here numerous times and the issue crops up again because of some statement by ex-DOT secretary who simply have no idea how it actually works.

Philippine Airlines or any other airline in the Philippines cannot expand their flights to the US because of the Category downgrade. I won't bother with the other countries as far as the consequence of having the aviation industry in the Philippines downgraded to Category 2 status.

You can spin it all you want, Category downgrade will not and does not help the aviation industry in the Philippines and it deters a robust improvement as far as tourism is concerned.

^^

You can spin it all you want, Category downgrade will not and does not help the aviation industry in the Philippines and it deters a robust improvement as far as tourism is concerned.

I'm spinning it alright.

I have facts to proved it!


DOT: Visitor arrivals grow 12% to 1.6 M in 1st five months of 2011

The Philippines’ total of 1.6 million foreign visitors from January to May 2011—170,000 more than during the same period in 2010—keeps the country on course for a second straight record year in arrivals, according to the latest numbers from the Department of Tourism (DOT).

“The figures reflect a 12-percent improvement almost midway into the year, and at this rate we expect to hit our target of 3.74 million for 2011. New air services and intensified promotional efforts abroad will be instrumental in sustaining this growth,” said Secretary Alberto A. Lim.

www.gov.ph (http://www.gov.ph/2011/07/20/dot-visitor-arrivals-grow-12-to-1-6-m-in-1st-five-months-of-2011/)



And if I may, my source is dubious too!

By the way, North America rose 8% in CAT 2 status.


Philippine Airlines posts strong international growth

PAL’s most travelled destinations in the region include Singapore, Bangkok, Hong Kong and South Korea. The US also contributed a large chunk of the airline’s revenues, while other sectors added to the carrier’s positive passenger numbers.

The flag carrier bested its local competitors in international passenger traffic as it flew a total of 1.06 million passengers –up seven per cent from 942,144 passengers covering the same period last year.

read more.... (http://www.aviationrecord.com/FC/FCNews/Philippine-Airlines-posts-strong-international-gro-1693.aspx)


Now tell me, Why is my assertions wrong? :)

I agree with arianspace. I do believe that the tourism industry can grow even with Cat 2 status, because the tourist can fly with other international carriers serving Manila or Cebu routes as PAL isn't the only carrier serving NA while other Philippine carriers like Cebu Pacific are free to enter other asian regional airspaces. An Airline safety issue is seperate from tourism, we should not confuse ourselves with the difference between the two. While I am in agreement with @arianspace's explaination above, I also agree with @jbkayaker "to a point" where the country would still need or prove it's worth as a tourism mecca in asia where Thailand, Korea, Singapore, HK and perhaps Japan as well are all enjoying solid tourism growth and still hold the number one status in the region. The DOTourism still need to think of a much more lucrative and appealing package in promoting the country as a prime tourism destination in Asia.

I'm just curious, what was Paris Hilton's impression of NAIA Terminal 1? :shifty:

lovin it:banana::banana::banana::lol::lol:

^^


I'm spinning it alright.

I have facts to proved it!



And if I may, my source is dubious too!

By the way, North America rose 8% in CAT 2 status.



Now tell me, Why is my assertions wrong? :)

Do you know the consequence for Philippine based airlines (PAL, Cebu Pacific....) as far as having a Category 2 status for the Aviation industry?

In the United States airlines from the Philippines CANNOT ADD MORE DESTINATIONS TO THEIR FLIGHTS. Philippine Airlines can ONLY SERVE THEIR CURRENT DESTINATIONS. If OTHER airlines DROP their service to Manila, Philippine Airlines can take the slack opened by the other airlines ONLY on their current destinations and fill the void BUT TO EXPAND and ADD ANOTHER DESTINATION within the United States, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO SO because of the Category downgrade.

Same in Europe, Category 2 status of the Philippine aviations has hindered the expansion of Philippine based airlines to fly to destinations in Europe.

You want Philippine based airline TO GROW AND EXPAND more so than foreign airlines to help with the tourism industry. There will always be competition but to survive the competition, Philippine based airline need to up its game.

All the foreign airlines expanding in the Philippines might seem good at first glance (competitive pricing) but the bottom line, it is a foreign airline that is growing not the local ones. Competition is good but local airlines need to survive and be able to fight off competition as well. Local based airlines can do so if they are able to expand not just in the Philippines but overseas. With Category 2 status that will be hard to accomplish.

With Philippine Airlines using the slogan "Asia's First Airline". Looking at performance alone compared to many others especially Asian carriers, Philippine Airlines have been left behind. Really sad considering PAL loves to make it known they were Asia's first airline.

Oh well, Category 2 status of the Philippine Aviation sure is compounding the problem and not making things any easier for the airline industry in the Philippines.

^^
Do you know the consequence[s] for Philippine based airlines (PAL, Cebu Pacific....) as far as having a Category 2 status for the Aviation industry?

In the United States airlines from the Philippines CANNOT ADD MORE DESTINATIONS TO THEIR FLIGHTS. Philippine Airlines can ONLY SERVE THEIR CURRENT DESTINATIONS. If OTHER airlines DROP their service to Manila, Philippine Airlines can take the slack opened by the other airlines ONLY on their current destinations and fill the void BUT TO EXPAND and ADD ANOTHER DESTINATION within the United States, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO DO SO because of the Category downgrade.

Same in Europe, Category 2 status of the Philippine aviations has hindered the expansion of Philippine based airlines to fly to destinations in Europe.

You want Philippine based airline TO GROW AND EXPAND more so than foreign airlines to help with the tourism industry. There will always be competition but to survive the competition, Philippine based airline need to up its game.

All the foreign airlines expanding in the Philippines might seem good at first glance (competitive pricing) but the bottom line, it is a foreign airline that is growing not the local ones. Competition is good but local airlines need to survive and be able to fight off competition as well. Local based airlines can do so if they are able to expand not just in the Philippines but overseas. With Category 2 status that will be hard to accomplish.

I was expecting a better answer from you. A counter factual argument so to speak. But I guess my expectations were set too high.

Let me tell you this, probably I know more than what you are explaining here about category 2. I just debunk your claim. All other questions have one way or another been debated and answered here.

I don't have to lecture what I know because I'm paid to do it. I've already said a piece. Try to read my post again. I must be missing something.

And if you want to know what is the difference between Philippine-based airlines and that of its Asian neighbor, try asking Skyharbor, he'll be glad to lecture you a thing or two. :)

^^ Why am I being dragged into this discussion? :?

^^ Why am I being dragged into this discussion? :?

Yes tell us why are Philippine based airlines not allowed to expand in the US and Europe. What is the consequence of having a Category 2 status on the Philippine Aviation.

Somehow Arianspace think having a Category 2 status is a good thing for the aviation industry in the Philippines.

Do you know the consequence for Philippine based airlines (PAL, Cebu Pacific....) as far as having a Category 2 status for the Aviation industry?



Not to take side on this one, with due respect, I do believe Mr arianspace is in a position , career wise, to be able to explain this whole cat 2 issue in a better way since if I am not mistaken is in the aviation industry itself. Just like Mr Zidlakan who is the official MCIA airport general manager and Mr Sky Harbor.

As far as your explaination about Philippine carriers are NOT/ WILL NOT be able to add and expand it's destination in the US, yes, this is true and it is what Mr arianspace has been explaining either. However, on your explaination that IF other airline companies withdrew its services from the Philippines PAL can take the slack, which is both true and false, it would only be false because that would have been already the worst scenario there is such as catastrophic events, war or civil unrest etc etc. would not happen based on the current situation in the Philippines unless Manila is hit by a massive meteore tomorrow, knock on would then yeah.... For one thing, NA is being served by other asian carriers as well which is more than two carriers, they are coming from 6 different countries who has more than two airline companies operating as their official flag carriers.

As far as Europe is concerned, FAA's Cat 2 status did influence the ban of the Philippine carriers to fly into the European air space but bear in mind, before all these happened, PAL ceased it operations in London for a decade already so it only proves that reason is more on the marketability and profitability of that route and not cat 2 status which the Philippine carriers THEY DO NOT FLY TO EUROPE TO BEGIN WITH, KLM is the only european carrier operating to NAIA while the rest of the market is being absorbed by either Cathy Pacific, Emirates and Ethiad since PAL was not able to compete with the three giants. This is where PAL and other Philippine carriers needed to work on, compete with the kind of service packages other airline companies are offering while the government needs to work on the investment marketability of the country to help the Philippine aviation industry grow and be competitive.


There is no doubt that the tourism would aid in the growth of any Philippine carriers but along with it, it would be the Philippine economy and the investment atmosphere in the country that should play a bigger role in the growth of the Philippine carriers along with it's competitiveness in their prices and service packages.


As far as the Philippine carriers not being able to expand in the US, this is where you and Mr arianspace are not meeting eye-to-eye, as well as with me. I happen to agree that while it is PAL on losing end on these whole issue, that does not necessarily mean that the tourism cannot grow, otherwise, there would be no notable statistical data of increases you would see 3 years after the category 2 status, primarily because the filipinos and the foreign tourist alike can opt to use other international carriers to take them to the Philippines, yes, even Americans can still reach the Philippines via Asiana, Cathy Pacific, Japan Airlines, Korean Air, Eva Air etc etc etc so it only goes to show that inspite the whole cat 2 ordeal in the Philippines, it does not stop Americans and filipino Americans to travel to the Philippines, the tourism can still grow since Cat 2 does not affect the Philippine carrier's plan to expand in other countries such as Japan, Korea, Singapore, HK, Macau, the Middleast, infact, even Zest Air is expanding to the Asian regional destinations. That is the whole point we are making, you've got to separate the Tourism issue from FAA ruling that downgrade the Philippine aviation into Cat 2 status, while it does have an effect on the image of the country as awhole that Cat 2 status has a very weak bearing on the tourism industy which, I agree, DOT still needs to expand its tourism promotion.

Legal 500 (http://www.legal500.com/c/philippines/developments/13123)

On 8 January 2008, the FAA issued the results of its IASA and it included the Philippines or particularly the CAAP, as one of the state CAAs listed under the Category 2 status. With this status, the Philippine CAAP is considered as a CAA that does not meet the standards of the ICAO and air carriers regulated by the CAAP and operating to the US will not be permitted to initiate new service and limited to current levels of any existing service to the US while remedial measures are being performed. No code sharing arrangements between Philippine carriers and US carriers will also be allowed while the Philippine carriers can also be subjected to additional inspection requirements while using US airports.

To make matters worse, on 18 December 2009, the ICAO decided to join the fray and published a bulletin showing the results of the Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program that it conducted in the Philippines in October 2009. It declared the Philippines as a "Significant Safety Concern" because the Philippine government continues to have unresolved issues regarding its air safety oversight and security systems following the downgrading by the FAA of the CAAP to Category 2 status.

Not to be outdone, the European Commission (EC) on 30 March 2010, added the carriers of the Philippines (specifically PAL and Cebu Pacific) as among the airlines banned from operating in the European Union citing the ICAO safety assessment report.

......... Philippine president Gloria Macapagal Arroyo ordered the CAAP to resolve this matter as soon as possible. Noting that not only was the situation an embarrassment for her administration, there too are the deleterious economic effects that the downgrading has had on the country's flag carriers.

It also appeared that other countries, even those not belonging to the EU, were being influenced by the FAA and ICAO findings. Countries such as Japan and Korea have used the downgrading as justification in refusing applications by Philippine carriers for changes in schedules or additional airport slots within their respective territories.

^^ Still does not prove that Cat2 slowed down the tourism industry in the Philippines since there is a notable increase in the number of tourist visiting the Philippines despite of the downgrade. Foreign carriers are picking up the slack from PAL.

I really think we should separate the two issues. Let us not be confused with it.

Philstar (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=711957&publicationSubCategoryId=66)

First basic requirement is successfully getting ourselves out of the US FAA Category 2 downgrade and taken off the list of countries with a substandard aviation regulatory environment and facilities by European aviation regulators. This Category 2 rating prevents our airlines from increasing their flights to the US or even changing the type of aircrafts our carriers use. Our downgrade also prevents us from getting more European tourists and our airlines from flying to Europe.


The urgency of the situation cannot be overemphasized. Because of the downgrade, Philippine Airlines is not allowed to increase its flights from the current 33 frequencies per week. PAL ordered 6 new B777 (370 seats) and delivery started in 2009. PAL could have theoretically deployed these fuel efficient planes to the US, where the Philippine carriers are allowed to fly to 28 points. The Category 2 downgrade prevents PAL from using these brand new airplanes even if these were all manufactured by an American company. The US has also issued an advisory warning US citizens in the Philippines to refrain from using Philippine-based carriers effective since 2008.

The European Union also banned Philippine registered carriers from European skies. The Europeans also warned EU citizens to refrain from using Philippine-based carriers effective from April 1, 2010. This ban caused mass cancellations of European tour groups and is still causing us problems in getting more European tourists to come because the ban prevents the tourists from getting travel insurance that covers domestic flights on Philippine carriers.

The failure of the Arroyo administration to address this problem, despite numerous press releases of deadlines Ms. Arroyo supposedly set, is a serious dereliction of their duty. As the Philippine Travel and Tours Association (PTTA) noted, “the downgrade cast a negative image of the country as an unsafe destination with untrustworthy facilities and infrastructure.” How can we have a tourism promotion campaign if we are officially tagged as unsafe by our current principal markets?

ABS-CBN (http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/08/16/11/tourism-losses-faa-status-p66b)


Tourism losses from FAA status: P66B

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines lost about P66.3 billion in tourism revenues in the last two years owing to the downgrading of the country to Category 2 status by the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

Aileen Clemente, PTAA president, said the country’s downgrade to Category 2 status has delayed the expansion of routes by local airlines to the US, which, in turn, denied the country additional tourist arrivals from
North America.

“Assuming that Philippine Airlines [PAL], with its six new B777, was able to add 42 new flights to the US weekly, we are looking at 1.4 million lost tourist arrivals since 2009. This is also not yet taking into consideration the potential number of flights Cebu Pacific could actually make to the US,” Clemente said in a statement.

^^ They do contradict themselves do they?? Is it safe to say that the statistics presented in the news are all nothing but lie itself?? Then if that's the case, how reliable are these Philippine news for real??

Check the link, note their graph on the increase in the tourism industry in the Philippines.

http://www.braincontour.com/2011/03/11/travel-and-tourism-competitiveness-report-2011-philippines-rank/




The Philippines is ranked 18th regionally and 94th overall, down eight places since the last edition, with a weaker performance across most areas measured by the Index. Among the country’s strengths are aspects of its natural resources: it is ranked 24th for the number of World Heritage natural sites and 40th for the total known species in the country. The Philippines also benefits from excellent price competitiveness (ranked 20th), with low prices overall, particularly hotel prices, and low ticket taxes and airport charges. There are also some aspects of the policy rules and regulations regime that are conducive to the development of the sector, such as few visa requirements for foreign visitors (ranked 3rd) and bilateral Air Service Agreements that are assessed as comparatively open (29th), although other areas— such as the protection of property rights, rules related to foreign investment, and the difficulty of starting a business in the country—remain a challenge. Other matters of concern are safety and security (ranked 109th); health and hygiene levels (97th); and transport, tourism, and ICT infrastructures that require upgrading.

here is another one:

13.33 increase cannot be overlooked as well, but then again, which one is to believe. Columns at Philstar or the Official Tourism website in the Philippines?


Inbound visitors to the Philippines for the first four months of 2011 aggregated to 1,306,944 posting an increase of 13.33% versus last year’s arrival of 1,153,198 for the same months. The month of January recorded the biggest volume of 349,713 visitors while the highest growth rate was recorded in February with 18.52%.

Visitors from the East Asian region continued to account the biggest source of arrivals with a share of 44.50% for a total of 581,551 visitors. It recorded an increase of 18.90% compared to 489,122 arrivals in 2010. Korea was the biggest contributor of arrivals numbering 286,018 capturing 21.88% of the total volume. Taiwan, on the other hand, recorded the biggest growth at 42.68% among the countries from this region.



The North American region was the second biggest group contributing 274,613 arrivals for 21.01% share to the overall traffic. This region posted an increase of 10.31% compared to its contribution of 248,955 arrivals the previous year. The ASEAN is the third source market with 103,715 arrivals yielding 7.94% share with an increase of 10.04% than its year-ago arrivals of 94,250.



Visitors from Australasia/Pacific region constituted 5.62% of the total inbound traffic with 73,483 arrivals. This figure was 16.25% higher than the 63,212 arrivals a year ago. Visitors from Northern Europe was up by 10.20% versus its year-ago volume of 54,535. It constituted 4.60% of the total inbound traffic.

While visitors from Korea continued to account the bulk of arrivals, Japan remained the third biggest market with 129,223 visitors. This market grew by 8.09% with a share of 9.89% to total volume. The Chinese market came in strong as the fourth biggest market contributing 71,113 arrivals for a share of 5.44%. This market grew by 18.54% compared to its contribution the previous year. The fifth biggest generator of arrivals is Australia with 56,681 arrivals for a share of 4.34%. This market grew by 20.84% compared to its year-ago arrival.




http://www.tourism.gov.ph/Pages/IndustryPerformance.aspx

Inquirer.net (http://business.inquirer.net/13341/philippines%E2%80%99-%E2%80%98category-2%E2%80%99-status-losses-reach-p66-3b)

Forgone tourism revenues as a result of the country’s being placed on Category 2 status by the United States Federal Aviation Administration have reached more than P66.3 billion over the past two years, prompting local travel agencies to appeal to the government to do something about the situation.

In a statement issued Tuesday, Philippine Travel Agencies Association president Aileen Clemente said the country’s Category 2 status, which prevents local carriers from expanding their flights to the US, has stunted tourism growth.

Okay mine was from the Official tourism website not from news papers like Philstar, Inquirer and ABS CBN news.

^^ They do contradict themselves do they??

The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation is not and will never be beneficial to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!

Okay mine was from the Official tourism website not from news papers like Philstar, Inquirer and ABS CBN news.


Hahahaha!!! You are funny!!!

The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation is not and will never be beneficial to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!

Then how do you explain the 13.33 % increase the Department of Tourism posted in their own official websites? This is what you are not getting either. True that the downgrade has an effect on the image of the country as a whole not just the tourism industry, it has very small bearing in the tourism industry, otherwise, why do we still see the Asian tourist pouring into the country followed by the US?

Okay mine was from the Official tourism website not from news papers like Philstar, Inquirer and ABS CBN news.
Hahahaha!!! You are funny!!!

Why am my funny when it comes to these? Aren't you one of those who criticized how inaccurate the Philippine media is??:ohno::ohno::lol::lol:

The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation IS NOT and WILL NEVER BE BENEFICIAL to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!

i totally and absolutely AGREE with this statement.

although i can't remember anybody saying it is. maybe i missed reading it ...

The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation is not and will never be beneficial to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!

absolutely! No ifs or buts. No contradiction in this regard!

teka, sino ba ang nagcocontradict nito?

i totally and absolutely AGREE with this statement.

although i can't remember anybody saying it is. maybe i missed reading it ...

Yeah, actually, I don't think anybody is contradicting that same fact you quoted on him cuz I know i've agreed for most part. Its just the fact that even with Cat 2 status, the tourism industry can still thrive, it would be better for the tourism industry and the Philippine carriers if Cat 2 lifted so that the Philippine can profit and compete with foreign airline companies, just the point we are making is that despite the downgrade and ban, filipino and foreign travelers can still reach the Philippines via other legacy carriers from other countries and even LCCs this is why there is a DOT statistics that shows the data of increase from 2010 toi 2011.

Why am my funny when it comes to these? Aren't you one of those who criticized how inaccurate the Philippine media is??:ohno::ohno::lol::lol:




Okay mine was from the Official tourism website not from news papers like Philstar, Inquirer and ABS CBN news.




Hahaha now you are truly funny, I want you to show everyone and quote me on how, when and why I said Philippine media is inaccurate.

On the other hand you did not trust and believe the Philippine media when I used it as a source of all the articles I've posted!!

absolutely! No ifs or buts. No contradiction in this regard!

teka, sino ba ang nagcocontradict nito?

Let me introduce you to mwg........and you guys can discuss the Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation and its effects on the Philippines.

ummm haven't I aggreed for one most of what you said in this regard? I think Mr Zidlakan( AKA Mr Paul Villarete MCIA General Manager) can read well enough in previous pages and is exactly why he posted his comments that way if you haven't picked up the gist of it.

And yes, did I not try to post to you and official websites of the Department of Tourism that shows the increase in tourist travels to the Philippines at 13.33 in 13 months time? If you hadn't notice yet.

So tell me or explain to all of us where did that DOT tourism data come from? Explain to us why there is an increase on international travelers into the Philippines between 2010 to 2011 inspite of the downgrade 3 years ago by FAA.



The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation is not and will never be beneficial to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!
i totally and absolutely AGREE with this statement.

although i can't remember anybody saying it is. maybe i missed reading it ...

absolutely! No ifs or buts. No contradiction in this regard!

teka, sino ba ang nagcocontradict nito?

This is something that I agreed very much with Mr arianspace

^^


It is just unfortunate that our government hired the wrong administrators who doesn't know history.

And don't ever have the conception that PAL can't expand in the US because it can notwitstanding CAT 2. What it can't do is open new routes and fly new planes. But it can grow its hub to twice daily LAX/SFO if it wanted to because they have existing rights for those but it doesn't. It has been debated here numerous times and the issue crops up again because of some statement by ex-DOT secretary who simply have no idea how it actually works.

Yes,the Cat.2 status is not so good but the philippine tourism as some people here already said will still survive somehow who is having difficulties here is PAL since they ordered for 6 B777-300ER and they wanted to use these planes to replace their aging B747-4 aircrafts so this Cat.2 status is almost paralizing PAL only in the US.,but then again it gives a chance for foreign airlines from US and Europe to fly to the phil. since there is no competition from philippine airline carriers plus if you look at it most filipinos fly with foreign carriers for some reason not PAL anymore.

"most filipinos fly with foreign carriers for some reason not PAL anymore."
Probably due to cheaper pricing but also the service on PAL has really deteriorated in the last year or so. FA's that do not care about their jobs and lousy food to go along with it. Once that story starts spreading within the filipino community, there is no stopping it.

this is an excerpt on an article i posted int the DMIA thread...:

The airline group also brought up with Luciano the airport closure at NAIA when its repair starts on January next year.

The operation of the airport will be affected as it closes from 12:30 to 5:30 a.m. for about five to six months.

Luciano said the DMIA is working with NAIA to address situations like this, impending airport closure in Manila.

When asked if DMIA can handle massive arrival of aircraft, Luciano said CIAC is open to accept companies with expertise on ground-handling.

ngayon ko lang nalaman yan, usually ba anong oras "nagsasara" ang NAIA??:dunno:

"most filipinos fly with foreign carriers for some reason not PAL anymore."
Probably due to cheaper pricing but also the service on PAL has really deteriorated in the last year or so. FA's that do not care about their jobs and lousy food to go along with it. Once that story starts spreading within the filipino community, there is no stopping it.

Correct! Service and price matters. :okay:

Hahahaha!!! You are funny!!!

haha... sinabi mo pa! e funny naman yan noon pa man like fanny falayfay! :lol:

haha... sinabi mo pa! e funny naman yan noon pa man like fanny falayfay! :lol:

You know what is even hilarious, he has not been back in the Philippines in a very long time but he is the MOST VOCAL of all on the threads here at Skyscrapercity even more than the actual people residing in the Philippines.:lol:

^^^^ HEY!!!! Hold down your horses. Since (I think) I am the one who started to open up the issue of FAA downgrading to Category 2 and the thread followed through, I guess it would be better to settle these things to where it should be properly placed. Although we have experienced professionals like Sir Paul Villarete of MCIA (zidlakan), let's admit that some of us are but opinionated individuals that are willing to give our own insights on the issue; someone like me who is just an aviation and air travel enthusiasts. As for me, with regards to these issues, may we just leave questions to the professionals and follow what they have in mind, since they're the one who really knows about the issues and the current progress and standing of our Air Space.

My final thoughts on the issue though is that; yeah! after reading some of your rebuttals with each other, I kinda conclude that indeed Tourism and the Category 2 Downgrade is two separate issues. Tourism can thrive even if the Category 2 downgrade is in effect. But hey, MCIA prove that they can be on Category 1 which only means that if a smaller airport (in terms of traffic) like MCIA can get the status, I firmly believe that other airports especially NAIA can also uplift its standing from its present miseries. Again this all boils down to proper government management. If only MIAA have well managed authorities like the one in MCIA, there would be no problem or issues whatsoever. I am not saying that ang tanga tanga or ang bobo bobo ng mga taga MIAA but then again it all boils down to proper management, no wonder airports like CRK, MNL, DVO, Subic are asking for CEB/MCIA's management style.

I am in no way comparing airports here, I dont want clashes of airports here baka ma AirCrash Investigation pa tayo. :lol: what i'm trying to say is that if our aviation industry has a unified and uniform management styles and strategies I won't doubt our country will be one of the best airports and gateways to the rest of asia and to the world.

So Tourism is in great boom due to the fact that LCCs are becoming aggressive in our skies nowadays, with regards to the Category downgrade, it's all but a matter of safety issues and this must really be need to address by the proper authorities to make our airports one of the safest and modern airports in the world. Good to know that a month ago, MCIA was named the safest airport in the Philippines, we know NAIA can too. With regards to the expansion of Philippine Carriers to Europe and the USA, I also agree that PAL can not afford to do so, since they do not have the right number of equipment to serve the said route. Same goes with CebuPac, obviously enough, their A320s can not achieve to go to a distance as far as Europe, even if they want to. :lol: But will see if 5J expands and acquire bigger planes like AirAsia. I can't wait to see a Philippine Budget Airline servicing flights to the US or Europe, long haul low cost carrier catering these routes. They are also considering passenger traffic on this. C'mon guys, let's go search in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines and see the fleet size of PAL, I mean it's way behind and too small compared to other large carriers it is competing with. Not like 5J now, wherein they acquire new and bigger planes for their expansion like 30 new A321neos on top of their 20 regular A320 orders. If only they have the modern and a number of fleet, I believe they could expand rapidly, provided they show to the rest of the world they are worthy for the said expansion. I can't wait as well to see PAL ordering new and modern planes at a large scale. An A380 perhaps? But this imagination of mine is like throwing a stone towards the moon. Someday, it will come true. We hope!!!

Too bad though, PAL is really marketing they are Asia's first airline, sadly though they are not deserving of what they are now. But there is always tomorrow for our flag carriers. It's also a different issue with PAL since they have their own management styles to deal with as well. I'm just curious why PAL has just two class layouts now on their services, Mabuhay and Fiesta Classes (Economy and Business) what happened to First Class??? hmmm! management styles I think so that they can profit and survive the economic world. I'm just sad that during those early times wherein PAL was really gleaming with success, they are the first airline (I think!) who really offers a real bed, not the bed that's just automatically folded from your seat. But a real bed despite you are given your usual seat. So there's a seat and a bed separately provided for each of their first class passengers before. I saw pictures of these bed and seat poster ad before. I also know this info from a famous tour guide in Manila - Carlos Celdran. :cheers:

Hey! Just to lighten things up. Here's my timelapse of the Domestic Wing of the Ninoy Aquino International Airport Terminal 3. If you do have a YouTube account, please subscribe to my channel (http://www.youtube.com/kjec15). Thanks! :)

96bz4XIlKpw


At sariwain natin ang Kabayanihan ni Ninoy Aquino ngayong araw na ito. 28 years ago when Ninoy Aquino was assassinated at then Manila International Airport (the present Terminal 1); and now, named after the man himself, Ninoy Aquino International Airport.

:banana:MABUHAY ANG KABAYANIHAN NI NINOY!!!:banana:

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284644_1757425230229_1676952242_1213897_2966529_n.jpg

You know what is even hilarious, he has not been back in the Philippines in a very long time but he is the MOST VOCAL of all on the threads here at Skyscrapercity even more than the actual people residing in the Philippines.:lol:

yun nga.pano loner. lahat ng topic na pwedeng mag-post, magco-comment yan! haha... tiga-USA "daw" siya. bopolaks naman! :lol:

Exclusive: Naia congestion ‘very critical’
Sunday, 21 August 2011 20:59 Manuel T. Cayon / Reporter

DAVAO CITY—The congestion at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (Naia) has reached a “critical level” so that it must now drop at least 30 flights from its daily operation to avoid accidents.

The new Naia problem was brought to the fore by Capt. Benjamin Solis, a former pilot and former chief executive of two international cargo-handling airlines, as the country’s premier airport is trying to get out of its Category 2 aviation safety status.

Solis said a study he made this year on the current condition of Naia showed that the country’s main international gateway has reached a saturation level of flights that it can handle at the same time.

Solis said Naia has already used all its available space to accommodate flights “and this is a very dangerous and risky condition” that requires immediate decongestion.

“At the least, about 30 flights should be taken out from Naia,” he said.

The Diosdado Macapagal International Airport in Clark Field, Pampanga, currently the third most frequently used airport in the country, could provide the nearest and most convenient access to all flight destinations to the Naia.

“I would recommend a joint two-airport use, because the Clark International Airport is very accessible to the Naia,” he said.

“Actually this is not a new finding; this congestion has been pointed out by at least three studies of the Japan International Cooperation Agency [Jica] since 1997. They all said the same thing and warning that the Naia has reached a dangerous level of airport handling,” Solis said.

Even the International Air Transport Association (IATA) had suggested that aviation authorities declare a “Level 3” condition in the Naia, Solis told the BusinessMirror on Friday.

A Level 3 condition, under IATA’s Worldwide Scheduling Guidelines, describes those airports “where demand exceeds capacity during the relevant period, and it is impossible to resolve the problem through voluntary cooperation between airlines and where, after consultation with all the parties involved, there are no possibilities of resolving the serious problems in the short term.”

Solis was the consultant of the Asia Foundation for the Clark airport and had been asked by former Transportation Secretary Jose de Jesus to conduct a study on the Naia situation.

He said Transportation Secretary Mar Roxas—who succeeded de Jesus in early July—has been apprised of the initial findings of the study, including the dangerous condition at the airport.

The Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines, the Manila International Airport Authority and the Civil Aeronautics Board would join Solis in a public presentation of his study in early September, where Roxas would attend.

“They [agencies] have all been part of the study, and they all have helped with the information and data needed,” he said.

In April, Solis raised the recommendation of a joint two-airport use before the conference workshop of business groups led by the Joint Foreign Chambers in the Philippines at the Asian Institute of Journalism.

He said other international airports might be tapped to divert other foreign airlines from Naia.

“That would make your airport in Davao City a very good alternative,” Solis told tourism officials at a press forum on Friday at the Marco Polo Hotel here.

Victor Jose Luciano, president and chief executive officer of the Clark International Airport Corp., concurred with Solis, saying Davao City has more things and sights to offer than what Clark now has. Luciano spoke here during the Davao Investment Conference 2011.

Naia was downgraded to Category 2 status over deficiencies in the Air Transport Office manpower and systems that hinder it from properly auditing local aviation entities, and preventing the country’s airline companies to expand operations to the US.

“We know that aviation is high in the priority of Secretary Roxas because he knows that for tourism to go full blast, we have to look at our airports as the main transportation mode to the tourist destinations,” he said

this is an excerpt on an article i posted int the DMIA thread...:



ngayon ko lang nalaman yan, usually ba anong oras "nagsasara" ang NAIA??:dunno:

Madaling araw, hindi ko lang alam yung exact time. Maybe Arianespace can enlighten us. :)

Some people should really stop it with the sarcasm. You guys are really coming off as trolls. :ohno:

Third ba ang Clark? may be in number of international flights, coz if we based it total to Air Traffic more or less Clark is 10th or 11th,

Yes,the Cat.2 status is not so good but the philippine tourism as some people here already said will still survive somehow who is having difficulties here is PAL since they ordered for 6 B777-300ER and they wanted to use these planes to replace their aging B747-4 aircrafts so this Cat.2 status is almost paralizing PAL only in the US.,but then again it gives a chance for foreign airlines from US and Europe to fly to the phil. since there is no competition from philippine airline carriers plus if you look at it most filipinos fly with foreign carriers for some reason not PAL anymore.

Yep, pretty much. Nobody is saying Cat 2 has no effect on the country especially on the Philippine airline industry, it may have some effect on the image of the country but somehow it would not be a big deterent in the tourism industry not with an official statistics that showed continous increase.

"most filipinos fly with foreign carriers for some reason not PAL anymore."
Probably due to cheaper pricing but also the service on PAL has really deteriorated in the last year or so. FA's that do not care about their jobs and lousy food to go along with it. Once that story starts spreading within the filipino community, there is no stopping it.

Yes, this is true, north american filipinos can get a much cheaper fare from Asianna than PAL, I've once got a cheaper airfare from Korean Airlines flying out of dallas going to the Philippines. The only advantage you would get with PAL other than occassional cheaper airfare is the direct service from Mainland US directly to Manila but otherwise, one can get a cheaper fare from Delta, Asiana, EVA and even Korean Air sometimes too.

You know what is even hilarious, he has not been back in the Philippines in a very long time but he is the MOST VOCAL of all on the threads here at Skyscrapercity even more than the actual people residing in the Philippines.:lol:

Talking about yourself about not residing in the Philippines considering YOU ARE ONE OF THEM WHO ALWAYS BAD MOUTH THE COUNTRY OF YOUR BIRTH AND HERITAGE.YOU LIVE IN LAS VEGAS for quite some time also. You were just in the Philippines less than a year I was there and I can even have a picture to prove you when I was last in the Philippines.

Okay here it is may be a bit OT but it is still relative to the discussion. Plantation Bay Hotel and Resort in Cebu was just openned over 5 years ago, this was taken just a few months before you posted a picture with your Boracay visit so you would know this is considerably new picture with the resort being still quite brandnew. I did take Korean Air this time so it only goes to show that even if PAL can not expand to another route, just like what Mr@arianspace mentioned, PAL can still increase frequencies from LAX and SF because PAL is still entitled with so much number of seats , that includes Vegas as well. What PAL cannot do at this point after Cat 2 downgrade is to open Detroit, NY , Chicago or NJ destination. Delta offers services to Manila via Tkyo. This is what you have not been getting. You are just on with your continous criticism about the Philippines. The country of your birth.


For those who are from Cebu and those who has been in Plantation bay Resort, they can tell you jbkayaker that it is a brand new hotel resort in the Philippines, Particularly Cebu where you have to fly via Cebu Pacific, PAL or AirPhil and other Philippine air carriers. Contrary to what you are saying that I have not been to the Philippines in a long time, this is MY PROOF about being in the Philippines recently and THAT this pic is authentic because a moderator met with me in FL over a year ago.
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z170/midwestguy1/Cebu2006h.jpg

this is an excerpt on an article i posted int the DMIA thread...:



ngayon ko lang nalaman yan, usually ba anong oras "nagsasara" ang NAIA??:dunno:

I did see your post there in DMIA. I didn't think NAIA close or they are open 24/7 I believe. I would like to find out myself. Anyway, I don't know if you remember each time you goes back to the Philippines. I remember arriving there via Delta or Asiana pass midnight and I will be out 1:30 to 2 am. whenever I leave for my return to the US since it's Delta/NWA, I remember arriving in NAIA at 4 or 4:30 in the morning and there would be passengers from different airlines present already. So I think it is safe to assume they do not really close at all. If they do close it between the hours of 12 to 5:30am, that means the passengers who arrive in NAIA that early who are all outbound passengers would definitely suffer being outside since they require passengers to be in NAIA 3 to 4 hours earlier before their departure time for security screening and check in.

.

^^^^ HEY!!!! Hold down your horses. Since (I think) I am the one who started to open up the issue of FAA downgrading to Category 2 and the thread followed through, I guess it would be better to settle these things to where it should be properly placed. Although we have experienced professionals like Sir Paul Villarete of MCIA (zidlakan),

My final thoughts on the issue though is that; yeah! after reading some of your rebuttals with each other, I kinda conclude that indeed Tourism and the Category 2 Downgrade is two separate issues. Tourism can thrive even if the Category 2 downgrade is in effect. But hey, MCIA prove that they can be on Category 1 which only means that if a smaller airport (in terms of traffic) like MCIA can get the status, I firmly believe that other airports especially NAIA can also uplift its standing from its present miseries. Again this all boils down to proper government management. If only MIAA have well managed authorities like the one in MCIA, there would be no problem or issues whatsoever. I am not saying that ang tanga tanga or ang bobo bobo ng mga taga MIAA but then again it all boils down to proper management, no wonder airports like CRK, MNL, DVO, Subic are asking for CEB/MCIA's management style.

:

Very good analogy @kjeck15. It's really simple as that, taking ones opinion without being condescending, if the other one knows better, it should be accepted but you can still offer your opinion. I happen to believe in Mr arianspace even from time to time he can be wrong, I know for a fact he is gentleman enough to admit. Mr Zidlakan is no doubt very knowledgeable on this matter based on his experience and being one of the insiders in the industry. It so happen that I agree with them too but that does not make me the bad guy isn't it? It seems that what I've shared wasn't too far fetched to what they have explained and I've accepted their corrections if I knew I was wrong. I don't think i hurled any insult on anybody first hand although I am guilty of retaliating when I felt very insulted.


BTW, very nice video you shared. Did you that that yourself which I assume you did. Such a pity that the international operations can't be transfered there right away.

^^^^ HEY!!!! Hold down your ....

... My final thoughts on the issue though is that; yeah! after reading some of your rebuttals with each other, I kinda conclude that indeed Tourism and the Category 2 Downgrade is two separate issues. Tourism can thrive even if the Category 2 downgrade is in effect. But hey, MCIA prove that they can be on Category 1 which only means that if a smaller airport (in terms of traffic) like MCIA can get the status, I firmly believe that other airports especially NAIA can also uplift its standing from its present miseries....

... it's all but a matter of safety issues and this must really be need to address by the proper authorities to make our airports one of the safest and modern airports in the world. Good to know that a month ago, MCIA was named the safest airport in the Philippines, we know NAIA can too....

.... :cheers:

thank you very much for the kind words. but let me just correct a little bit
for the record. please don't believe all the words in media reports hook,
line and sinker, because they have a habit of compressing issues and ideas
to save space and getting it all wrong in the process.

firstly, we are not in Category 1. these categorization by ICAO, FAA, and
other similar bodies refer to the status of the aviation sector of a country
and almost always concerns the aviation authority of that country and eve-
thing about its existence - legal basis, organization, systems and proce-
dures, regulations, operations, infrastructure, database management,
documentation, certifications, etc., etc. in our case, it's mostly a CAAP
compliance, and that's why CAAP is the agency tasked by government to
bring about the upgrading to cat 1. all of us help, of course - airports, the
airlines, CAB, other aviation agencies, but it is primarily a CAAP show.

MCIA is not in cat 1, as one source quoted. what i said is that MCIA is
doing its best to support the country's thrust to upgrade to cat 1, and the
issuance of the aerodrome certification is proof that we are doing consis-
tent with that support. in the check-list of compliance for upgrading pur-
poses, airports play a smaller and lesser role, but whatever we can contri-
bute, we must - all the items in the list must have a grade of 8 or better,
graded from 1 to 10. the aerodrome certification of at least two (2) aero-
dromes is needed before the next audit, we got the first one last month,
and i know NAIA's will be issued soon. also davao, clark, and subic are all
busy finishing their requirements, let's hope at least 5 will be certified by
the time ICAO will audit the philippines again.

re: MCIA as the safest airport in the phil., i never said that, nor did CAAP.
what we announced is that MCIA was issued the first, ever, aerodrome
certification in the phil., and of course, we're happy and proud about that.
but being a certified airport seemly means that we have complied with all
the requirements and standards for safety operations of ICAO. i'd rather
prefer being tagged one of the safest, rather than THE safest ... we were
simply issued first, many others will follow. the only consolation i'm happy
about is that airlines tell me they are very happy and confident landing and
taking off in a "certified" airport.

The point you are missing in all of these is that a Category 2 downgrade of Philippine Aviation is not and will never be beneficial to the tourism industry nor the Philippine aviation. No ifs or buts!!! The sooner the aviation industry gets out of Category 2 status the better!!! No contradiction in this regard!!!!!!

and i'd like to reiterate, notwithstanding the arguments you guys are having
here, the above statement (in blue, highlighted and underscored) should
be supported by everyone. its much better to highlight those issues which
we all agree rather that dwell and spend so much time on those which we
disagree ...

... ngayon ko lang nalaman yan, usually ba anong oras "nagsasara" ang NAIA??:dunno:

you have to be specific about which closure you are referring to - closure of
the airport itself? (runways and taxiways?) or closure of the terminal and
terminal facilities? the latter are closed when there are no more processing
of passengers for departures or arrivals, ... these usually open two (2) hours
(in our MCIA's case, 3 hours) before the first scheduled flight for the day, so
when the last flight of the day is very close to the first flight of the next day,
the terminal is technically never closed.

as to runway closure, it depends on volume of aircraft movements, and the
slotting. but we always try our best to close it (the runway) at least one to
1.5 hours a day, to give time for runway maintenance. this is usually around
2 to 4 PM. anyway, evening flights are leaner on those time slots ...
arrivals

One way of putting it is that MCIA is a GOCC located in Mactan, a Municipality of Cebu in the islands of the Visayas within the REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES. Whatever finding the Philippines got by international institutions e.i. ICAO binds everything within it.

I still have to see a Republic of Cebu. :)

SKY HARBOR knows the difference between PI based carriers and that of its Asian counterpart. He explained it very well that's why I called his attention. If he doesn't get it then let me drop a few words.

PHILIPPINE AIRLINES IS NOT OWNED OR CONTROLLED BY THE GOVERNMENT like Singapore, Thai and Malaysia Airline does. It doesn't have a sovereign fund which it can dip into. It has only Lucio Tan's pocket. If you don't know what that is look somewhere else.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=66&articleId=719213

Government eyes partner in high-speed train project
By Iris C. Gonzales (The Philippine Star) Updated August 22, 2011 12:00 AM Comments (3)




MANILA, Philippines - The Aquino administration is eyeing to partner with the private sector for the construction of a high-speed train that would connect the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport in Clark, Pampanga to Metro Manila, a project that would entail over $2 billion in investments, Finance Secretary Cesar Purisima said over the weekend.
This train would be among the big-ticket infrastructure projects under the government’s Public-Private Partnership (PPP) program for infrastructure.
Purisima said the government would be providing a substantial amount of subsidy for the project.
“We’re now looking at building a high-speed train to connect that airport to the center of Manila. This is a large investment, over $2 billion. The challenge really is to get the political support for that because the fares for high-speed trains relative to the incomes of people would be quite high and to make it affordable, a substantial amount of government subsidy will have to be done,” Purisima said.
Creating the balance of providing quality infrastructure at costs that will be attractive to investors and, at the same time, acceptable to end-users is at the heart of the PPP program of the Philippines right now, the finance chief added.
Metro Pacific Investments Corp., led by businessman Manuel V. Pangilinan, has expressed intentions to be a proponent of this project.
Purisima said that while the PPP program is facing delays, the government would soon launch in the coming weeks “several more” infrastructure projects following the successful launch of the first big-ticket toll road contract.
The finance chief said that the government does not want to rush the program so as not to repeat mistakes of the past.
“We’ve launched the PPP program. We’re a bit late to be honest. We’re not rushing it because we’re one of the players in this space back in 1992. We’ve had successes and failures,” Purisima said during a speech at the ASEAN-India business conference in Singapore.
Nevertheless, he said the government is now preparing to bid out “several more” projects in the next few weeks.
“We’ve launched one. There are 18 bidders to a toll way we’ve launched a few weeks back. We’re about to launch several more in the next few weeks,” Purisima said.
The first project launched was the Daang Hari SLEX road project, which attracted 18 companies.
Purisima said 18 companies attended the prequalification conference and bought bidding documents.
The Daang Hari project is estimated to cost P1.96 billion. Under the contract, the winning bidder will finance the design, construction and maintenance of the infrastructure. It is expected to ease traffic within Cavite, Las Pinas and Muntinlupa.
Purisima said that under the PPP program, the government would make sure that the policies are stable and clear

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=66&articleId=719213

Government eyes partner in high-speed train project
By Iris C. Gonzales (The Philippine Star) Updated August 22, 2011 12:00 AM Comments (3)




MANILA, Philippines - The Aquino administration is eyeing to partner with the private sector for the construction of a high-speed train that would connect the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport in Clark, Pampanga to Metro Manila, a project that would entail over $2 billion in investments, Finance Secretary Cesar Purisima said over the weekend.
This train would be among the big-ticket infrastructure projects under the government’s Public-Private Partnership (PPP) program for infrastructure.
Purisima said the government would be providing a substantial amount of subsidy for the project.
“We’re now looking at building a high-speed train to connect that airport to the center of Manila. This is a large investment, over $2 billion. The challenge really is to get the political support for that because the fares for high-speed trains relative to the incomes of people would be quite high and to make it affordable, a substantial amount of government subsidy will have to be done,” Purisima said.


Nice project but the highlighted portion is the problem and that it will be subsidized again like LRT- MRT. I guess if the government do have fund for it as long as they can sustain these without added burden to the people.

... I still have to see a Republic of Cebu. :) ...

oh there was one, around a decade ago, in the low-rise building of the former
cebu plaza hotel (now marco polo), which i frequently patronized ... :lol::lol::lol:

you have to be specific about which closure you are referring to - closure of
the airport itself? (runways and taxiways?) or closure of the terminal and
terminal facilities? the latter are closed when there are no more processing
of passengers for departures or arrivals, ... these usually open two (2) hours
(in our MCIA's case, 3 hours) before the first scheduled flight for the day, so
when the last flight of the day is very close to the first flight of the next day,
the terminal is technically never closed.

as to runway closure, it depends on volume of aircraft movements, and the
slotting. but we always try our best to close it (the runway) at least one to
1.5 hours a day, to give time for runway maintenance. this is usually around
2 to 4 PM. anyway, evening flights are leaner on those time slots ...
arrivals

well the article didn't really give any details about the supposed closure; as i posted earlier:

The airline group also brought up with Luciano the airport closure at NAIA when its repair starts on January next year.

The operation of the airport will be affected as it closes from 12:30 to 5:30 a.m. for about five to six months.

Luciano said the DMIA is working with NAIA to address situations like this, impending airport closure in Manila.

When asked if DMIA can handle massive arrival of aircraft, Luciano said CIAC is open to accept companies with expertise on ground-handling.

i'm guessing its the runway; i don't think they'd be able to close T1 that long, would they?? unless of course MIAA is expecting some flights to be temporarily transferred to DMIA...:dunno:

:cheers:

^^ I hate it whenever there is not enough or clear messages let out in the media, they don't give full reporting or not state clearly what they wanted to convey to the public. Is it the media or the officials itself who does not specify clearly what they wanted to announce to the public.

...BTW, very nice video you shared. Did you that that yourself which I assume you did. Such a pity that the international operations can't be transfered there right away.

YUP! I'm the one who made it! (Obviously!). :lol: Please visit and subscribe to my Youtube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/kjec15) to see some of my Air Travel Videos as well. See my SSC signature down below too. :)

thank you very much for the kind words. but let me just correct a little bit
for the record. please don't believe all the words in media reports hook,
line and sinker, because they have a habit of compressing issues and ideas
to save space and getting it all wrong in the process.

re: MCIA as the safest airport in the phil., i never said that, nor did CAAP



You're very much welcome Sir Paul. I'm sorry to put so much exaggeration on being in compliance with CAAP/ICAO. So it's the media who is to be blamed. O_o All the while, I was reading tons of news articles and the heading goes to say that "MCIA is now the safest airport in the Philippines." I was fooled. But I stand corrected, thanks to your Mr. Villarete. I always look forward for the best with your management styles in MCIA. Again and again, congratulations for complying with such standards set by proper authorities. Your airport may be the first to do all of these, but as what you said and I quote, "a lot of things still needs to be done and the certification can be disgranted at any time." So, I wish MCIA the best to maintain what it is now and so I hope our other airports would follow through. Again, I'm sorry for the exaggeration. :(

It's good to know you have an expert/professional who is knowledgeable enough and can tell you what is and what are. Thank you Sir Paul. :banana:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/NAIA%20Updates/Photo0452.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/NAIA%20Updates/Photo0451.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/NAIA%20Updates/Photo0450.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/NAIA%20Updates/Photo0449.jpg

Wala ng tabo?

dapat may mood lighting naman ang mga washrooms...

okay na yang renovation. functional naman, as long as regular ang linis at may running water and toiletries, okay na. ang daming reklamo ng iba dito. lol. :D

YUP! I'm the one who made it! (Obviously!). :lol: Please visit and subscribe to my Youtube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/kjec15) to see some of my Air Travel Videos as well. See my SSC signature down below too. :)

Wow, thank you for sharing. I've seen a couple of your videos before on you tube even before you started posting here in SSC I think. It's nice to meet you and keep on posting your blogs and vids.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/ianers_ianized/NAIA%20Updates/Photo0451.jpg



Very nice. It seems like the sink and such are refurbished? It's the same one from before? Or it just look similar to it? Not that it looks bad okay? I just remember having the same sink design from before. I do like what they did there, the floor tile is nicer along with the new wall finish. It looks nice and clean.:okay:

Very nice. It seems like the sink and such are refurbished? It's the same one from before? Or it just look similar to it? Not that it looks bad okay? I just remember having the same sink design from before. I do like what they did there, the floor tile is nicer along with the new wall finish. It looks nice and clean.:okay:
It is the same design the with restrooms in the departure area so almost look the same...

^^ Incidentally, that walkway with changed carpet last year? Do they have plans on remodeling it too? like with a new ceiling and new finish walls that would match the blue and i guess the other is burgundy colored carpeting? How about that area in the departure level where the duty free shops are? those do need remodelling also.

Mood para saan? Mag dadala ka ba ng date sa luob ng banyo? or mood para makapagbayash ka? kaloka!

dapat may mood lighting naman ang mga washrooms...

The last time I was out it was still closed. I have to go to center toilet near Duty Free to relieve myself.

Government helpless on NAIA congestion

By Recto Mercene and Manuel Cayon, BusinessMirror
Posted at 08/23/2011 7:33 AM | Updated as of 08/23/2011 8:35 AM


MANILA, Philippines - The head of the Civil Aviation Authority of the Philippines (Caap) said on Monday that authorities at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) have long been aware of its “very critical” congestion problem and that, in fact, several steps have already been taken to address it.

But Ramon Gutierrez, Caap director general, virtually acknowledged the government's helplessness, saying the efforts exerted have not made any dent on the problem.

He told the BusinessMirror the government was warned as far back as 1997 that in 2015, or four years from now, the problem would “blow up in the faces of authorities” if they do not force all commercial airlines to transfer to the Diosdado Macapagal International Airport (DMIA) in Clark, Pampanga.

“We have ordered the transfer of 15 flying schools out of the Naia, and the Caap had provided nighttime landing operations to scores of secondary and provincial airports as part of the solution to decongest the premier airport,” Gutierrez said.

The Japan International Cooperation Agency made three studies since 1997 that were submitted to the Department of Transportation and Communications (DOTC) to show the urgency of the situation. But the problem has persisted, he said.

The issue was revived by Capt. Benjamin Solis, former pilot and former chief executive of two international cargo-handling airlines, who told the BusinessMirror over the weekend about a similar study he made.

Gutierrez said foreign airlines have refused to use other airports in the country because although they were “night-capable,” they were not commercially viable, meaning, they don’t have the passengers needed.

“Jetstar of Australia was allowed to operate out of the Davao International Airport but it complained there is no passenger traffic in that Southern part of the Philippines,” Gutierrez said.

One drastic solution would be to close NAIA so that all 30 members of the Airline Operators Council would be compelled to transfer to the DMIA, Gutierrez said.

But he added that the solution really lies with the DOTC, not with the Caap or the Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA).

Solis’s disclosure came at a time when the country’s premier airport is still trying to get out of its Category 2 aviation safety status.

Solis, in a press forum on Friday in Davao City, also said 10 airports have long asked to be freed from the operational control of the burdened Caap.

They asked that they be allowed to grow on their own and help the country push tourism by acquiring more international air linkages, aviation executives said.

Of the 10 airports, Solis could only identify seven after the DOTC set aside the recommendation. These were the airports in Laoag, Puerto Princesa, Kalibo, Davao, Iloilo, Bacolod and Cagayan de Oro.

Gutierrez, when informed of Solis’s proposal, readily agreed.

“Actually, I’m pushing for it,” he said. Under the proposal, a Philippine Airport Authority would govern all the airports so as to free the Caap from the burden of running 86 airports, except Naia, Clark and Subic and Mactan.

“The Caap is now a regulatory body, not a service provider, and I heard that the proposal is now on second reading in Congress,” Gonzales said.

If the plan pushes through, the Caap would be the equivalent of the Federal Aviation Administration in the US, which has oversight functions over all airports.

Gutierrez said the proposal was first aired during the tenure of MIAA General Manager Alfonso Cusi, who was then being groomed to be the overall head of the airport authorities to be created.

Instead of a single airport authority, Solis said he has recommended a regional airport authority, “operating on a hub-and-spoke model.”

“For Davao City, for example, this would be the hub where other nearby airports in General Santos City, Cotabato, Butuan and Surigao would serve as the minor airports supporting the Davao airport,” he said.

This way, he said, the regional airport authorities would earn through the economy of scale. This would be an innovation “much like that of Clark, which is not an authority but a corporation.”

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/08/22/11/government-helpless-naia-congestion

^^ Closing of NAIA is indeed a drastic measure to get the airline companies to transfer to DMIA. Who is going to pay NAIA T3 then? They already knew why airline companies are refusing to transfer in DMIA and NAIA T3. How can they close NAIA when for one, they have not really found any investors to build a terminal in Clark, secondly, the road infrastructure isn't really completed yet so that NLEX and SLEX are connected along with other planned highway that would serve as a periphery around Metro Manila. And then the train service is still being decided on since they are contemplating on another subsidy like in LRT/MRT case. They keep on suggesting too many things when, they should really concentrate more on getting Cat 2 status lifted by FAA first and foremost. sheesh....

thanks to GMA on that one. 9 years and only a Cat 2 and EU ban to show for. and also, the 50-kph, incomplete Northrail

I think focus na lang ang aviation authorities sa mga urgent matters na may heavy impact like yung getting back into Cat 1 status and operational issues sa NAIA. Itigil na yang closure or what have yous na yan. Wala namang patutunguhan yan. Publicity lang ng mga promoters ng Clark Airport. :D

Yuon nga , parang may hidden agenda ang mga yan kaya panay ang promote at siksik ng DMIA, issue at minamadali pa. Develop kung idedevelop ang DMIA sige pero tigilan na lang yang propaganda at kung ano ano pang brainwashing na ginagawa through media kahit na alam nila na ang gobyerno ang tatagilid sa international community pag hindi na resolve ang Frapport case na yan at kesyo isara na agad ang NAIA kahit wala pa silang siguradong mag iinvest sa DMIA ng bagong terminal at maayos na agad ang rail service at tapusin na agad ang mga road infrastructure na sinasabi nila. Ginugulo lang ng mga taong may hidden agenda ang lahat ng tao na biglang napapaasa dahil sa sabi nito at sabi nuon. Isa isahin na lang muna ang problema, solve muna tapos isa action ang ibang plano.Prioritization and good - careful planning ang kailangan hindi bara bara na style ng karamihan sa filipinas.

In response to the article about NAIA's congestion, the Airline council has somehow agreed.

Airline council commends Clark <<< Click for the link (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideNation.htm?f=2011/august/23/nation6.isx&d=2011/august/23)

Airline council commends Clark
by Jess Malabanan

CLARK FREEPORT—The 48-member Airline Operators Council has expressed full support to Clark International Airport as the country’s premier international gateway in Pampanga.

“We are impressed with what we have seen at Clark Airport. Mr. Victor Jose Luciano has done a tremendous job in the transformation of this facility as one of the busiests airports in the country today,” said council chairman Lourdes Reyes over the weekend.

“The last time we visited Clark Airport was two years ago, and what we saw here is great, we have seen the newly Expanded Terminal.”

The group’s roster includes Philippine Airlines, Cebu Pacific, Zest Air, China Air, KLM, Thai Airways, Taiwan Air, Cathay Air, Delta Airlines, Emirates, Orbit Air, Luftanza Technik Pilippines as well as Federal Express and Ground Handlers.

Clark International Airport Corp. president and chief executive Victor Jose Luciano assured the council of a well-managed air transport hub to foster their business.

“CIAC is currently in the process of mapping out plans for the Budget Terminal as well as the Terminal 2 project for the development of the 2,367 hectare Clark Civil Aviation Complex,” he said.

“We are committed to serve you in your future endeavors should you expand your operations in Clark Airport.”

Luciano briefed Reyes and her council on Transportation Secretry Manuel Roxas having set aside funds for a City Airport Terminal at the Ayala-owned Trinoma in Quezon City to make Clark accessible to passengers from Metro Manila and neighboring localities.

^ wushu! Unless there is a high-speed rail network connecting Clark to Manila, NAIA pa din ang main gateway ng Pilipinas. Convenient for people living in the Metro. Anyways, I commend Clark airport people for their efforts and vision. :D

Wala ng tabo?
in fairness, ang daming hand soap dispenser. paper towels na lang ang kulang, pero pwede na rin ung hand dryer. :)

dapat may mood lighting naman ang mga washrooms...

Mood para saan? Mag dadala ka ba ng date sa luob ng banyo? or mood para makapagbayash ka? kaloka!

haha pambihira nman kayo :lol: :lol:
ok nman yung lighting ah.... medyo dim hehe.... baka may flash ung camera.

red lights ba gusto mo? haha :lol: :lol:

in fairness, ang daming hand soap dispenser. paper towels na lang ang kulang, pero pwede na rin ung hand dryer. :)


Wag na lang nilang lagyan ng paper towels kasi magkakalat lang sila, lalo na yung mga batang nandyan.

In response to the article about NAIA's congestion, the Airline council has somehow agreed.

Airline council commends Clark <<< Click for the link (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideNation.htm?f=2011/august/23/nation6.isx&d=2011/august/23)

[I][SIZE="4"]Airline council commends Clark
by Jess Malabanan

CLARK FREEPORT—The 48-member Airline Operators Council has expressed full support to Clark International Airport as the country’s premier international gateway in Pampanga.

“We are impressed with what we have seen at Clark Airport. Mr. Victor Jose Luciano has done a tremendous job in the transformation of this facility as one of the busiests airports in the country today,” said council chairman Lourdes Reyes over the weekend.

.

There is no doubt that the airline operators council are in full support for all these. It's just a matter of "actually" seing everything put in place. I think what would definitely hold this back is the T3 legal issue since they cannot just abandon these and leaving Frapport high and dry. But, whereever there is a viable facility the airline companies can operate along with a cheaper deal on rent in these terminals is where the airline companies would go to.

Gawin na lang exclusive sa local airlines ang NAIA. All others sa DMIA na. Ganyan dati sa Bangkok after ma-open ang Suvarnabhumi. Most domestic flights ng Thai Airways nasa Dong Muang Airport (former International Airport ng Bangkok). Although eventually, sinarado din ang Don Muang Airport.

Gawin na lang exclusive sa local airlines ang NAIA. All others sa DMIA na. Ganyan dati sa Bangkok after ma-open ang Suvarnabhumi. Most domestic flights ng Thai Airways nasa Dong Muang Airport (former International Airport ng Bangkok). Although eventually, sinarado din ang Don Muang Airport.


actually Don Mueang International Airport is still operating
;)

Gawin na lang exclusive sa local airlines ang NAIA. All others sa DMIA na. Ganyan dati sa Bangkok after ma-open ang Suvarnabhumi. Most domestic flights ng Thai Airways nasa Dong Muang Airport (former International Airport ng Bangkok). Although eventually, sinarado din ang Don Muang Airport.

Agree ako dito. Ofcourse, isama narin ang PAL sa DMIA, domestic nalang dito. Some domestic flights should also operate in DMIA para may transfer/connecting flights naman to other destinations in case, but then again a high speed train would be a response to all of these concerns about connections. I read sa news the gov't is already eyeing for this but no actions yet. Hay!!! I'm always hoping and will forever hope until I die. :lol:

Wag na lang nilang lagyan ng paper towels kasi magkakalat lang sila, lalo na yung mga batang nandyan.

one word...

MAINTENANCE.


paper towels also will give washroom users an option to clean up after themselves.. specially wet sink tops.

so runway pala ang isasara, i'm guessing 06-24...
does anybody here know what flights usually operate in the wee hours??

Clark to absorb flights over NAIA runway rehab
by Jess Malabanan | Manila Standard Today (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideNation.htm?f=2011/august/25/nation7.isx&d=2011/august/25)

CLARK FREEPORT—Clark International Airport president and chief executive Victor Jose Luciano expressed optimism that the terminal can take in flights once the Ninoy International Airport starts rehabilitation of its runway.

“Yes we can handle eight narrow bodies and five wide bodies once tapped by aviation authorities for a five hour lull at the NAIA,” he said, after being informed that work was reset from November to January next year.

Luciano said CIAC has been operating round the clock seven days a week fully backed up by navigational aid, meteorological equipment, airfield ground lighting system, fire and rescue facilities and terminal radar approach control.

The Diosdado Macapagal International Airport has accommodated several narrow and wide body aircraft from NAIA due to stormy weather.

“So there’s no reason why we cannot open the airport for diverted flights.”

Luciano said rehabilitation on NAIA 0624 runway would be done five hours a day. “The works will commence midnight and stop early morning so there’s no problem with that.”

Luciano said daily flights were now coming in from various Asia countries including regular domestic flights with Air Asia as the latest hub user.

CIAC is finalizing plans for terminal 2 along with facilities for its growing list of budget flights.

Recently, the Aviation Operator Council officials made a tour joined by representatives fro Philippine Airlines, Zest Air, China Air, KLM, Thai Airways, Taiwan Air, Cathay Air, Delta Airlines, Emirates, Orbit Air, Luftanza Technik Philippines and Federal Express.

^^ Excited na akong umuwi dyan. Dyan ako dadaan sa T1. :)

Actually if CRK would be the main hub, that will be really good for tourism for Northern Luzon. :) Build a high speed train from CRK to Manila. Most airports ngayon malayo na sa mga main cities.

T1 sa NAIA? I'm guessing it is since wala pa naman T2 ang DMIA. Pictures ha? Pati sana sa arrival at immigration at baggage claim kung puede. (hehe, parang akong humihingi ng pasalubong lmao)

Tourism is the best tool in improving the image of the country, if the government cannot improve its image, at least the natural beauty of the country can BUT tourism cannot expand if the aviation industry in the Philippines is stuck on Category 2 status.

Airlines from the Philippines cannot expand overseas especially in the US and mind you, the East Coast has a large Filipino presence especially in New Jersey. It can be a viable expansion that will benefit any airline, you have a large Filipino presence and others that can visit the country.

Posted in MANILA...WOW international forum by an ex-filipina, now a certified AmericanA

Take a look at the photos, it is edited. There is a reason why most of the photos are edited. The sad reality of it all is that majority of the metropolitan areas are neglected and dirty. I have been to the Philippines around 7 or 8 times now since 2003. I can't remember anymore, I have to look for my old passport. I have relatives still living in the Philippines.

It is a dirty country and worse the people are arrogant and cannot accept reality. I've visited the country many times because I want to help the people with whatever money I spent during my vacation there BUT now I regret that I did it. To put it simply my countrymen do not deserve my hard earned money. I could have spent my vacations elsewhere but I chose to do it in the Philippines. NEVER AGAIN.

Apart from the Philippines, I've visited Germany twice this past decade, I wish I spent more time there or elsewhere in Europe. To all the people visiting the Philippines, KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND BE READY FOR DISAPPOINTMENT ESPECIALLY IN METRO MANILA!! Keeping this in mind, there are many beautiful natural sights away from Metro Manila albeit chaotic and most of it destroyed by the people living there. It is a sad fact in the Philippines, with such beautiful natural scenery it cannot even come close to the tourism numbers of its neighboring countries.

Originally Posted by jbkayaker12
Take a look at the photos, it is edited. There is a reason why most of the photos are edited. The sad reality of it all is that majority of the metropolitan areas are neglected and dirty. I have been to the Philippines around 7 or 8 times now since 2003. I can't remember anymore, I have to look for my old passport. I have relatives still living in the Philippines.

It is a dirty country and worse the people are arrogant and cannot accept reality. I've visited the country many times because I want to help the people with whatever money I spent during my vacation there BUT now I regret that I did it. To put it simply my countrymen do not deserve my hard earned money. I could have spent my vacations elsewhere but I chose to do it in the Philippines. NEVER AGAIN.

Apart from the Philippines, I've visited Germany twice this past decade, I wish I spent more time there or elsewhere in Europe. To all the people visiting the Philippines, KEEP AN OPEN MIND AND BE READY FOR DISAPPOINTMENT ESPECIALLY IN METRO MANILA!! Keeping this in mind, there are many beautiful natural sights away from Metro Manila albeit chaotic and most of it destroyed by the people living there. It is a sad fact in the Philippines, with such beautiful natural scenery it cannot even come close to the tourism numbers of its neighboring countries.


Very true and well said jbkayaker12.

There are many decent Filipino people but unfortunately the government is the most corrupt in the world with many self-serving idiots in positions of power.

One of the things that disappoint tourists the most is paying the Terminal fee (not to be confused with Airport tax which is part of the cost of every ticket issued globally). There is no sign of any terminal improvement and hardly anybody really knows where the money has gone – the terminal walls should be made of gold by now with the amount of money stolen from passengers in Terminal fees over so many years.

The government and airport authorities are also morons for being unable to resolve the legal dispute between the local consortium and German airport operator Fraport AG. The dispute has been ongoing since 2002 and is costing the Philippines billions of dollars yearly in lost business. What a terrible waste of money, especially for a third world country!

Hum, I don't see these quotes in previous pages? Was it from tourism thread?

Most of the Photos for Ads purposes are enhanced to begin with, it's just the way it is when it comes to promotions. I was even fooled this summer in FL thinking that the hotel I booked was that nice and first class, only to get disappointed when I was there. It just how it works to lure people to book for them, I think it should be the word of mouth.REGARDLESS, the image of the country still needs to be improved, from tourist safety and other tourism facilities and destinations (which is there alreasy since resorts are all private and foreign owned to begin with)

I DO NOT DISAGREE on the idea of better promotions as well THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT. Having said these, the tourism department can still launch lucrative promotions, thereby, it will help improve the tourism, which means the tourism industy would continue to grow despite of the Cat 2 status as evident on the current increase in tourism in the Philippines. Foreign and Expat filipino tourist can go through other international carriers to go to the Philippines which is very disadvantageous to Philippine carriers because the cannot expand in the US. Meanwhile, since Philippine carriers are unable to expand its services and operations in the US (as far as more destinations). The current frequencies in LAX, SF and Vegas are still there. The US government didn't ban the Philippine carriers or PAL operations in these 3 destinations. Canada did not cancel PAL's operation in Vancouver as well, the Canadian government just have not granted any Philippine carriers its freedom right to fly further inland, this is even prior to FAA down grade.

If I may also add , while the Philippine aviation is down graded to Cat2, this does not mean the Philippine carriers cannot expand in various other asian cities. Infact, even Zest Air is taping more destinations from Korea to KLO and more from Cebu via AirPhilEx, There is also this new destination from Turkey. We should not focus only on the US most especially when the biggest tourist influx has been from Korea and Japan, that the ones coming from the US and Canada are mostly filipino immigrants and ex filipinos WHO IN TURN CAN CHOSE TO FLY VIA Delta, American Airlines, JAL, Korean Air, Asianna, EVA, Hawaiian air and so on. So how can we assume that the tourism industy in the Philippines cannot improve just because of Cat2 status? If foreign tourist are afraid to fly with any Philippine carriers? There are dozens of other reputable foreign airline companies serving the US mainland from various asian cities.

As far as that 750.00 terminal fee. That's only 5 to 7 dollars worth that's chicken feed for foreign tourist, especially the ones who are well to do. There are cheaper hotel accomodations anyway along with cheaper clothings and food if they don't go to those real expensive retails and restos.

"As far as that 750.00 terminal fee. That's only 5 to 7 dollars worth that's chicken feed for foreign tourist, especially the ones who are well to do. There are cheaper hotel accomodations anyway along with cheaper clothings and food if they don't go to those real expensive retails and restos."

The problem is that everyone is asking for their "chicken feed" so everywhere you go, the hands are out. Having passengers get into another line at the airport for a terminal fee gives the perception of third world economics.

i knew that it would happen and so when I went to T1 last August 9 and I was confronted by the guard for my documents upon entering the terminal I took out my copy of this article and told her to read it and show it to her boss and kept walking towards the xray....with her immediate supervisor staring at me. I wonder if they feel stupid.....the problem is a lot of the passengers do not read newspapers and submit blindly to these guards authority who also dont know what they are supposed to be doing at the entrance:


Redundant security measures at NAIA removed

By Tina Santos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:11:00 05/18/2011

Filed Under: airport security, Safety of Citizens

MANILA, Philippines?No more redundant security procedures at the airports.

The Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA), which operates the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA), has started to simplify the security process inside the airport terminals following mounting complaints from passengers.

According to NAIA Terminal 1 manager Dante Basanta, too much human intervention in security procedures inside airport terminals has been eliminated, starting Monday.

In the past, passengers would be asked by Philippine Aviation Security Service Corp. (Passcor) security guards to present their travel documents at the airport entrance, only to have them re-inspected by members of the Office of Transportation Security (OTS) at the initial security check a short distance away.

Security checks were done at three other points after the airport entrance: at check-in counters by airline personnel, then at the immigration counter and finally by OTS personnel at the final check-in counters.

But now, security guards are no longer allowed to check the travel documents of passengers entering the terminal.

Even security officers assigned before one pays the terminal fee have also been removed from their post,? Basanta said, explaining that the previous measure not only caused bottlenecks but inconvenience to many passengers.

Besides, PASSCOR personnels main task will be to keep the lines at airport entrances in order. They're not trained and they're not authorized to inspect travel documents of passengers. Passenger identity verification is basically the job of the Bureau of Immigration and OTS personnel, he explained.

But Basanta was quick to add that streamlining the security process did not mean that airport authorities were letting their guards down.

Security remains tight; we would like to assure the public with an improved passenger convenience but it doesn't mean we're sacrificing security,? he said. ?And besides, we still have roving guards who would conduct random checks and profiling of passengers. They can challenge passengers who, they think, are acting suspiciously.

Meanwhile, some passengers, particularly frequent travelers, welcomed changes in airport security procedure.

Finally, they did something to address that problem. Hindi naman kasi ganon ka-overacting ang security check sa ibang international airports. Tingnan mo ngayon hindi ganon kahaba ang pila pagpasok (Security checks in other international airports are not as over-acting. Now, look at the shortened cues at entry points, a businessman said.

He recalled that security guards stationed at the terminal entrance usually went as far as checking the travel visas in their passports even though they did not have the authority and training to do so.

"As far as that 750.00 terminal fee. That's only 5 to 7 dollars worth that's chicken feed for foreign tourist, especially the ones who are well to do. There are cheaper hotel accomodations anyway along with cheaper clothings and food if they don't go to those real expensive retails and restos."

The problem is that everyone is asking for their "chicken feed" so everywhere you go, the hands are out. Having passengers get into another line at the airport for a terminal fee gives the perception of third world economics.

Terminal fees should be tucked in the plane fare.

Terminal fees should be tucked in the plane fare.

Bingo.

Redundant security measures at NAIA removed

By Tina Santos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:11:00 05/18/2011

Filed Under: airport security, Safety of Citizens

MANILA, Philippines?No more redundant security procedures at the airports.

The Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA), which operates the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA), has started to simplify the security process inside the airport terminals following mounting complaints from passengers.

According to NAIA Terminal 1 manager Dante Basanta, too much human intervention in security procedures inside airport terminals has been eliminated, starting Monday.

In the past, passengers would be asked by Philippine Aviation Security Service Corp. (Passcor) security guards to present their travel documents at the airport entrance, only to have them re-inspected by members of the Office of Transportation Security (OTS) at the initial security check a short distance away.

Security checks were done at three other points after the airport entrance: at check-in counters by airline personnel, then at the immigration counter and finally by OTS personnel at the final check-in counters.

But now, security guards are no longer allowed to check the travel documents of passengers entering the terminal.

Even security officers assigned before one pays the terminal fee have also been removed from their post,? Basanta said, explaining that the previous measure not only caused bottlenecks but inconvenience to many passengers.

Besides, PASSCOR personnels main task will be to keep the lines at airport entrances in order. They're not trained and they're not authorized to inspect travel documents of passengers. Passenger identity verification is basically the job of the Bureau of Immigration and OTS personnel, he explained.

But Basanta was quick to add that streamlining the security process did not mean that airport authorities were letting their guards down.

Security remains tight; we would like to assure the public with an improved passenger convenience but it doesn't mean we're sacrificing security,? he said. ?And besides, we still have roving guards who would conduct random checks and profiling of passengers. They can challenge passengers who, they think, are acting suspiciously.

Meanwhile, some passengers, particularly frequent travelers, welcomed changes in airport security procedure.

Finally, they did something to address that problem. Hindi naman kasi ganon ka-overacting ang security check sa ibang international airports. Tingnan mo ngayon hindi ganon kahaba ang pila pagpasok (Security checks in other international airports are not as over-acting. Now, look at the shortened cues at entry points, a businessman said.

He recalled that security guards stationed at the terminal entrance usually went as far as checking the travel visas in their passports even though they did not have the authority and training to do so.

hayy... this is good to here... anyways, can a traveller go into NAIA to buy their ticket on the same day?... because I'm thinking before that the reason why the guards are there is because they only allow ticketed passengers to go in the terminal... I think this is true in Vietnam also (I may be wrong, I just based this from an episode in Amazing Race almost a decade ago.. hehehe...)

"As far as that 750.00 terminal fee. That's only 5 to 7 dollars worth that's chicken feed for foreign tourist, especially the ones who are well to do. There are cheaper hotel accomodations anyway along with cheaper clothings and food if they don't go to those real expensive retails and restos."

The problem is that everyone is asking for their "chicken feed" so everywhere you go, the hands are out. Having passengers get into another line at the airport for a terminal fee gives the perception of third world economics.

That,s almost 20$ in today's xchange rate. Anyway most people are really visual and if it,s something they can see they will feel like they,re shelving out something extra. People who budget also like to anticipate their travel costs so they can plan accordingly. There are some budget or mid priced tourists the country should not ignore. Every single type of tourists count. Also we shouldn't be so sensitive to feedbacks of tourists negative or positive, it's the best way to know what needs improvements.

Terminal fees should be tucked in the plane fare.



Bingo.

Yes, I agree also


"As far as that 750.00 terminal fee. That's only 5 to 7 dollars worth that's chicken feed for foreign tourist, especially the ones who are well to do. There are cheaper hotel accomodations anyway along with cheaper clothings and food if they don't go to those real expensive retails and restos."

The problem is that everyone is asking for their "chicken feed" so everywhere you go, the hands are out. Having passengers get into another line at the airport for a terminal fee gives the perception of third world economics.

Oh you mean some of those airpot employees asking for greese money from arriving passengers? Well yeah, that is a huge turn off ofcourse. Alot of these unprofessional employees seems to be targeting OFWs or returning filipinos while there are a handful immigration officers targeting foreigners. I've only read about koreans being victimized but those whom I knew who are non filipinos, who are ofcourse a friend of mine seems to have not encounter these, I don't know if its because they are missionaries or what, but non of them were victimized so far. I haven't myself, except once which didn't happen because I ignored the security guard. I don't think lining for terminal fees would give the perception of the country's economic status. It's mostly how filipinos are perceived in other country being mostly OFWs and because of DH working overseas give that impression to us filipinos. And yes, around the country, you would see a number of filipinos asking for money or bribe....

Yehay!! Mounting complaints finally paid off. I hope it will be carried over....

i knew that it would happen and so when I went to T1 last August 9 and I was confronted by the guard for my documents upon entering the terminal I took out my copy of this article and told her to read it and show it to her boss and kept walking towards the xray....with her immediate supervisor staring at me. I wonder if they feel stupid.....the problem is a lot of the passengers do not read newspapers and submit blindly to these guards authority who also dont know what they are supposed to be doing at the entrance:


Redundant security measures at NAIA removed

By Tina Santos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:11:00 05/18/2011

Filed Under: airport security, Safety of Citizens

MANILA, Philippines?No more redundant security procedures at the airports.

The Manila International Airport Authority (MIAA), which operates the Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA), has started to simplify the security process inside the airport terminals following mounting complaints from passengers.

According to NAIA Terminal 1 manager Dante Basanta, too much human intervention in security procedures inside airport terminals has been eliminated, starting Monday.


Security checks were done at three other points after the airport entrance: at check-in counters by airline personnel, then at the immigration counter and finally by OTS personnel at the final check-in counters.

But now, security guards are no longer allowed to check the travel documents of passengers entering the terminal.

.

IXH0bk1opu4

That,s almost 20$ in today's xchange rate. Anyway most people are really visual and if it,s something they can see they will feel like they,re shelving out something extra. People who budget also like to anticipate their travel costs so they can plan accordingly. There are some budget or mid priced tourists the country should not ignore. Every single type of tourists count. Also we shouldn't be so sensitive to feedbacks of tourists negative or positive, it's the best way to know what needs improvements.

The terminal fees are quite the same in most ASEAN countries, others are just tucked in. The problem with terminal fees not tucked in is that you have to make sure that you have that currency with you before you leave the country. Pag naubusan ka na ng pesos, maghahanap ka pa ng exchange?

The terminal fees are quite the same in most ASEAN countries, others are just tucked in. The problem with terminal fees not tucked in is that you have to make sure that you have that currency with you before you leave the country. Pag naubusan ka na ng pesos, maghahanap ka pa ng exchange?

I've used US dollars before if I remember it right. That's the only thing though, you would be shedding off a bit more than the exact amount.

I've used US dollars before if I remember it right. That's the only thing though, you would be shedding off a bit more than the exact amount.

Probably the most annoying airport in ASEAN would be the Rangoon International Airport (RGN) in Burma. When you pay the terminal fees which I remember is about 25USD, they would not accept certain serial numbers on USD, or whether it is even slightly creased/folded. One of the bills I had had a slight imperfection, one mm stain (from printing at the source), and they were like no, we can't take that. Uhm, hello, the airport hotel across the road just gave that to me. Kaya kainis.

Probably the most annoying airport in ASEAN would be the Rangoon International Airport (RGN) in Burma. When you pay the terminal fees which I remember is about 25USD, they would not accept certain serial numbers on USD, or whether it is even slightly creased/folded. One of the bills I had had a slight imperfection, one mm stain (from printing at the source), and they were like no, we can't take that. Uhm, hello, the airport hotel across the road just gave that to me. Kaya kainis.

well.. I think they worry that those dollars won't be accepted by their banks to be suspected of fakes.. we had the same problem before when we were in Xiamen, China... foreign exchange stores do not accept bills with even stamp marks... they only accept clean bills...

well.. I think they worry that those dollars won't be accepted by their banks to be suspected of fakes.. we had the same problem before when we were in Xiamen, China... foreign exchange stores do not accept bills with even stamp marks... they only accept clean bills...

I don't get why banks would stamp on a bill.

I don't get why banks would stamp on a bill.

they stamp it basically mark the bills if the teller has accounted the bill in his/her possession.... like if they've already counterchecked the bill by its serial...

i knew that it would happen and so when I went to T1 last August 9 and I was confronted by the guard for my documents upon entering the terminal I took out my copy of this article and told her to read it and show it to her boss and kept walking towards the xray....with her immediate supervisor staring at me. I wonder if they feel stupid.....the problem is a lot of the passengers do not read newspapers and submit blindly to these guards authority who also dont know what they are supposed to be doing at the entrance:


Redundant security measures at NAIA removed

By Tina Santos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:11:00 05/18/2011

Thanks for this article. Mabuti naman, kaso parang hindi naman alam ng mga tao sa NAIA.

Thanks for this article. Mabuti naman, kaso parang hindi naman alam ng mga tao sa NAIA.

Kulang kasi sa Campaign and Awareness. Public Information sana. Pero...haist! :ohno:

One of the things that disappoint tourists the most is paying the Terminal fee (not to be confused with Airport tax which is part of the cost of every ticket issued globally). There is no sign of any terminal improvement and hardly anybody really knows where the money has gone – the terminal walls should be made of gold by now with the amount of money stolen from passengers in Terminal fees over so many years.

You apparently have not seen the renovations taking place at NAIA-1. Several pictures can be found in this thread; just read back.

last feb I wrote that it took me 70 minutes to checkin and pass immigration and xray to duty free. This month it took me 120 minutes.

with so much time spent there really is no point having duty free shops since you are left with barely 30 minutes before boarding. no wonder we have lousy shops. there is no incentive to enlarge them.

in 2007, BAA retail in Heathrow and Gatwick had a NET PROFIT of 499 million sterling..thats almost P30 BILLION in profit...more than the cost of T3...thats the significance of retail.

another lost opportunity to increase our GDP

You apparently have not seen the renovations taking place at NAIA-1. Several pictures can be found in this thread; just read back.

I was thinking OXO is also jbkayaker who quoted his own comment as kayaker just to show someone is agreing in most of what he says, but we'll see.

I understand the frustration on the 750.00 terminal fee though, I wonder why MIAA authorities would require these to be added on that airline ticket so that it's not too visible and the passengers cannot really feel it in their ticket purchase. And also, that's one less stop lining up in all different queues in NAIA.

last feb I wrote that it took me 70 minutes to checkin and pass immigration and xray to duty free. This month it took me 120 minutes.

with so much time spent there really is no point having duty free shops since you are left with barely 30 minutes before boarding. no wonder we have lousy shops. there is no incentive to enlarge them.

in 2007, BAA retail in Heathrow and Gatwick had a NET PROFIT of 499 million sterling..thats almost P30 BILLION in profit...more than the cost of T3...thats the significance of retail.

another lost opportunity to increase our GDP

Yes, I can see why Duty Free shops and concessionaires in NAIA T1 most specially are not getting any profit. Most of your time are spent in all airport procedure just to get checked in for boarding.

Do they have these strick security checks on non US bound passengers or there are alot less security screening? I know in domestic terminal like T2, you only need to go through one security check and that is it.

We did discuss those things. Its just a matter of back reading some notable posts. There is no point of arguing it again.

Terminal fees should be tucked in the plane fare.

They already are tucked in the plane fare - its called Airport tax.
The Terminal fee is an additional charge to exploit passengers.

The reason why Terminal fees are not included as part of the price
of the ticket is because it makes the revenue gained much more difficult
to trace.

Where are the billions of dollars gained from Terminal fees?
Why is there no third party auditing?

You apparently have not seen the renovations taking place at NAIA-1. Several pictures can be found in this thread; just read back.

Every major airport undergoes renovations every 10 to 20 years without charging Terminal fees.

A review off of A.net that includes PR and NAIA T2. The reviewer's word for T2, so 1980's.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/trip_reports/read.main/197256/

The below article from Global Balita illustrates the massive incompetence and corruption of the government and airport authorities. Shame on them.

The real victims in the Terminal 3 fiasco

Raul Pangalangan
Philippine Daily Inquirer.

THE PHILIPPINE government was complicit in our recent defeat in the NAIA Terminal 3 case. It is erroneous to portray the Philippine government as the victim of an anomalous transaction when it was in fact privy to the anomaly from the beginning. The Supreme Court has already found the construction contracts to be tainted by fraud, yet the government has not prosecuted anyone for the fraud itself. The Philippine government doth protest too much.

You will recall that sometime during the presidency of Fidel Ramos, it was decided finally to replace our dilapidated NAIA with a completely new airport terminal. In 1997, the government granted that concession to Philippine International Air Terminal Co. (PIATCo), a Philippine company. In 1998, under the presidency of Joseph Estrada, the concession agreement was renegotiated to allow PIATCo to obtain more financing. In 1999, a German investor, Fraport, began its investments in the project and, in 2000, increased it further because PIATCo’s other shareholders wouldn’t invest more money.
Under the presidency of Gloria Arroyo, Fraport increased its investments further. By November 2002, however, Arroyo declared that her government “would not honor the Terminal 3 contracts” and declared them null and void.

Fraport filed suit before the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes (ICSID), which the Philippines succeeded in blocking by convincing the ICSID tribunal, in 2007, that it had no jurisdiction to hear the case. Fraport asked ICSID to annul that decision on, inter alia, the ground that there had been “a serious departure from a fundamental rule of procedure.” In December 2010, Fraport won. Several things struck me in the recent decision.

One, even the first tribunal itself—and this is the one which gave the Philippines its earlier victory—already noted the conflicting opinions by our own Department of Justice (DoJ), sometimes saying that the Fraport contracts were valid, later on saying the opposite. A May 2002 DoJ opinion spoke of renegotiating the agreement but did not question its validity. A September 2002 opinion by the Office of the Government Corporate Counsel (OGCC) found the “negotiation, drafting, execution and signing of the Concession Agreement” completely valid. Yet, the ICSID tribunal noted that by November 2002, both the DoJ and OGCC were singing a different tune. By then, their opinions were “strikingly different” and “diametrically different” compared to the May and September advice.

Two, the first tribunal had ruled that it had no jurisdiction over the Fraport complaint because its investment in the Philippines had been in violation of the Anti-Dummy Law. Yet the Philippines’ own prosecutors have dismissed the Anti-Dummy Law complaints against PIATCo and Fraport officials!

Three, the Philippines’ defeat before the second ICSID panel centered on the missing pieces of evidence before the Filipino prosecutors. When the Philippine government disclosed to the first tribunal that its prosecutor had thrown out the Anti-Dummy Law complaints, it explained that the prosecutor at that time did not know about the smoking gun (a so-called “Pooling Arrangement” among the investors). The best explanation that the government could muster was this: “As is the case with government agencies in many developing countries, the [DoJ] is overworked and understaffed, and its record-keeping can be imperfect.”

The first tribunal concluded that had the prosecutor known about the “critical documents,” he might have charged PIATCo and Fraport for the Anti-Dummy Law violations. The second ICSID panel rejected this as a violation of fair procedure. If the facts were uncertain as to “what documents were in the possession of the Prosecutor … the [first] Tribunal could not properly … have made that [‘negative inference’] without hearing both parties on the adequacy and effect of the record before the Prosecutor ….” The tribunal then proceeded to issue confusing orders, effectively re-opening the fact-finding stage of the case which it had already closed when it proceeded to the “deliberative” stage. This denied Fraport its due process right to comment on the prosecutor’s missing document. Thus concluded the review panel: “Accordingly … the Award must be annulled in its entirety.”

Fourth, the legal costs are simply astounding. By its own account, the Philippine government has spent $5,672,667.05 in lawyers’ fees and expenses. In addition, the Philippines has been ordered to shoulder its own half of the costs of the ICSID proceeding itself, which should amount to a few more millions in US dollars. Since our defeat effectively brings us back to square one, we can imagine the further hemorrhaging of hard-earned hard currency just to sustain the litigation.

In the meantime, the Philippines has moved to expropriate Terminal 3, which will require the payment of just compensation. This obligation is inescapable, both under the Philippine Constitution, under international law and, I must add, fundamental rules of fair play. Unless the parties agree, the compensation due will be fixed by a Pasay court, but the two leading figures in the case, Judge Henrick Gingoyon and my friend Assistant Solicitor General Nestor Ballacillo, have been murdered. Terminal 3 remains largely unused, except for the part that has been opened to two budget airlines, while the rest apparently has gone to seed.

There is no point in further enriching the lawyers at the expense of the Filipino people. Whether or not we win in another round of expensive foreign arbitration, we will need to pay just compensation in the end. The airport has been built. Let us start using it fully. It is time to negotiate.

They already are tucked in the plane fare - its called Airport tax.
The Terminal fee is an additional charge to exploit passengers.

Every major airport undergoes renovations every 10 to 20 years without charging Terminal fees.

The Philippines does not have an airport tax. The passenger service charge (which we commonly call the terminal fee) plays that role.

They already are tucked in the plane fare - its called Airport tax.
The Terminal fee is an additional charge to exploit passengers.

The reason why Terminal fees are not included as part of the price
of the ticket is because it makes the revenue gained much more difficult
to trace.

Where are the billions of dollars gained from Terminal fees?
Why is there no third party auditing?

I think Sky Harbor answered this perfectly:

The Philippines does not have an airport tax. The passenger service charge (which we commonly call the terminal fee) plays that role.

I had to pay terminal fees in Bangkok, Yogyakarta, Siem Reap and Yangon. Other airlines tuck in the terminal fee, there are times when I wasn't asked terminal fees because it was already included in my tickets.

I agree on both. OXO should research a bit more so he can find out more about it first hand if he does not believe us here in SSC.

:D :D :D muy interesante :popcorn:

You apparently have not seen the renovations taking place at NAIA-1. Several pictures can be found in this thread; just read back.

...well it's about time, people have waited for decades!!

How long do you think it will take them to get to Category I status and with the recent incident regarding Philippines Airlines @ LAX, would you think it will affect their chances of an upgrade?

For all the others here, I already know about malfunctioning landing gear incidents with other airlines so no need to compare. I just want to know how the most recent incident with PAL will affect the audit of the aviation industry in the Philippines as far as getting its category status upgraded.

I think the aviation industry in the Philippines should TRY their best not to incur any incidents which MAY hurt their chances of an upgrade while they are still in the process of gaining their Category I status reinstated.

[QUOTE=jbkayaker12;83348552]...well it's about time, people have waited for decades!!

How long do you think it will take them to get to Category I status and with the recent incident regarding Philippines Airlines @ LAX, would you think it will affect their chances of an upgrade?

The incident at LAX could have happened to any air carrier. It was not the fault of PAL. It should have no bearing on upgrading to Cat. 1 whatsoever.

[QUOTE=jbkayaker12;83348552]...well it's about time, people have waited for decades!!

How long do you think it will take them to get to Category I status and with the recent incident regarding Philippines Airlines @ LAX, would you think it will affect their chances of an upgrade?

The incident at LAX could have happened to any air carrier. It was not the fault of PAL. It should have no bearing on upgrading to Cat. 1 whatsoever.

It was a maintenance issue of the airline which left the airport in Manila, we'll find out how this incident will play out and its effect if any on the ongoing dilemma plaguing the aviation industry in the Philippines.

I have not seen any stories of it being related to maintenance. Do you have a link?

^^ No worries, he has none :D. All speculations and opinions.

^^ No worries, he has none :D. All speculations and opinions.

Tawag dyan, isang fishing expedition. :D


Will go through NAIA 1 this week, will post photos whenever I have time. ;)

I have not seen any stories of it being related to maintenance. Do you have a link?

Yes, wear and tear, maintenance issues but goodluck with the Philippine aviation and its quest for reinstatement to Category I, lets see how this one plays out.

^^ Where's the link? Wala ka namang maipakitang link.

^^^^^^Hehehehe it's an act of God for those who think this issue is not maintenance related, just to punish Filipinos and the Philippine aviation!!!:nuts:

so this is a act of God as well:

Pilot, passenger injured in jet bridge collapse at LAX (http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_18756109)

American Airlines and federal authorities inspected a jet bridge that collapsed at Los Angeles International Airport, injuring a pilot and a passenger who dropped about 10 feet to the ground, airline officials said Thursday.

About three-quarters of the 107 travelers aboard Flight 557 from Chicago were already off the plane when the bridge collapsed around 6:40 p.m. Wednesday, said Ed Martelle, a spokesman for American Airlines.

^ Maintenance problem yan! .. Joke! :lol:

Tawag dyan, isang fishing expedition. :D


Will go through NAIA 1 this week, will post photos whenever I have time. ;) Fact of the matter is, there was no loss of life, limb and the aircraft was intact except for those tires. The so-called "incident" (for lack of better term) was well handled by an obviously well trained PAL crew so that I think is a major plus & the investigating authorities would also take that into account. Why would La Mirada de Las Vegas make a mountain out of a molehill?

^^^^^^Hehehehe it's an act of God for those who think this issue is not maintenance related, just to punish Filipinos and the Philippine aviation!!!:nuts:

^^ Can't prove anything Mr. Buhay? :D

Fact of the matter is, there was no loss of life, limb and the aircraft was intact except for those tires. The so-called "incident" (for lack of better term) was well handled by an obviously well trained PAL crew so that I think is a major plus & the investigating authorities would also take that into account. Why would La Mirada de Las Vegas make a mountain out of a molehill?

Yep that's right, walang magawa eh. ganyan daw ang mga talangka. :D

The Philippines does not have an airport tax. The passenger service charge (which we commonly call the terminal fee) plays that role.

Please also note that on top of these fees, there's also what we call as the TRAVEL TAX for international departures. Hala, puro nalang TAX!!!

Terminal Fee - Airport User's Tax
Travel Tax - Philippine Tourism Authority
Aviation Security Fee - AVESCOM ata 'to

I really don't know if my Airport Tax pa. As far as I know, "this is where your taxes go" (famous line ba?) :lol:

I doubt if strict ang Airport Authorities or CAAP sa pag conduct ng audit/liquidation or inventory sa terminal fees. Sana computerized na ang receipt para easily tracked or accounted. :ohno:

Please also note that on top of these fees, there's also what we call as the TRAVEL TAX for international departures. Hala, puro nalang TAX!!!

Terminal Fee - Airport User's Tax
Travel Tax - Philippine Tourism Authority
Aviation Security Fee - AVESCOM ata 'to

I really don't know if my Airport Tax pa. As far as I know, "this is where your taxes go" (famous line ba?) :lol:

I doubt if strict ang Airport Authorities or CAAP sa pag conduct ng audit/liquidation or inventory sa terminal fees. Sana computerized na ang receipt para easily tracked or accounted. :ohno:


Travel Tax that I object. Vehemently.

http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww308/leeryan25/P1074775.jpg

Yep that's right, walang magawa eh. ganyan daw ang mga talangka. :D

Proof is out there Category II to be exact, what else do you want!!!:cheers:

This is not a put down but rather a wake up call for Philippine aviation, they are in review of their standing with the FAA. It is best to minimize incidents to the best of their abilities that MAY jeopardized the Philippine aviation gaining Category 1 status.

What happened is a maintenance issue which is serious, bravo to the pilot for landing the plane safely without anyone getting hurt.

...well it's about time, people have waited for decades!!

How long do you think it will take them to get to Category I status and with the recent incident regarding Philippines Airlines @ LAX, would you think it will affect their chances of an upgrade?

For all the others here, I already know about malfunctioning landing gear incidents with other airlines so no need to compare. I just want to know how the most recent incident with PAL will affect the audit of the aviation industry in the Philippines as far as getting its category status upgraded.

I think the aviation industry in the Philippines should TRY their best not to incur any incidents which MAY hurt their chances of an upgrade while they are still in the process of gaining their Category I status reinstated.





It was a maintenance issue of the airline which left the airport in Manila, we'll find out how this incident will play out and its effect if any on the ongoing dilemma plaguing the aviation industry in the Philippines.


-American Airlines and JetBlue has the same incident in LAX. How many air accidents or fatal crashes happened in the US? One being that Continental Air ATR series that crashed in a neighborhood close to Buffalo NY just recently. All of which are caused by pilot error and mechanical failures. Technical and mechanical failures almost on a daily basis most expecially in the US. How in the world did the US aviation notgot downgraded IF WE ARE GOING TO BASE EVERYTHING TO JUST THIS ONE PARTICULAR MAINTENCE ISSUE?

If we are to compare the reports on fatal accidents in the US and the Philippine the last 10 years then you can see how many incidents happened in the US as opposed to the recorded incidents in the Philippines, its very remarkable, the recent being was that PAL A319 that overshoot the runway but with no fatal victims and life threatening injuries. I believe the US has more of these so if the basis is on these. The US would fail miserably AND IT DIDN'T

As what the report revealed before and arianspace or Zidlakan can attest and expound on all these. It's the record of licensing and recertifications of the crew on each airlines in compliance with FAA regulatory commission which is being done by the company wide self audit by each airline companies where the CAAP failed to perform record safe keeping, along with records of accidents and what CAAP did to address all these for future references. In other words, record keeping and all kinds of paperwork that proved that the Philippine Aviation industry. True that with Cat2 status, Philippine carriers can not expand in the US, but this does not mean, they cannot expand in Asia or the middleast, meaning, the tourism would still go on and will continue to grow despite of that issue. ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS TO FLY WITH OTHER FOREIGN CARRIERS AND THEY WILL ARRIVE SAFELY IN THE PHILIPPINES. These carriers have their own outsourcing or perhaps duly company recognized locations and services to perform their maintenance. They do not have to go to the Philippines and if they do LUFTANSA Philippines is a foreign own company being overseed by main office.

Anyway, just what Mr Paul Villarette AKA Zidlakan mentioned before, there is no need to argue on the reinstatement of Cat 1 status. Everybody know these, it's the added issues brought up in this thread is what make it different. There is no need to preach on it to everybody, we are all in the same page when it comes to these.

Fact of the matter is, there was no loss of life, limb and the aircraft was intact except for those tires. The so-called "incident" (for lack of better term) was well handled by an obviously well trained PAL crew so that I think is a major plus & the investigating authorities would also take that into account. Why would La Mirada de Las Vegas make a mountain out of a molehill?

Yes, if we are going to base it on maintenance issue, the number of times the US received a major aviation catastrophe in the US, the US would have failed the miserably, especially that one that happened in Buffalo New York where an ATR turbo prop continental Airlines plunged and exploded in a residential neighborhood close to the airport. With fly by incidents, just recently and before PAL's incident, An A320 JetBlue airlines had to execute an emergency landing bound to Washington I belive ( someone can correct me if I am wrong on whatever destination it was suppose to land)that was diverted to LAX with the same incident, a busted landing nose gear. These did not happen only once, there was one other before with an American Airlines aircraft that landed in Miami Florida. So definitely, if the maintence issue would affect the cat 2 status. A brand new tire that passed QA can still have imperfections once it is already in use.


Fact of the matter is, there was no loss of life, limb and the aircraft was intact except for those tires. The so-called "incident" (for lack of better term) was well handled by an obviously well trained PAL crew so that I think is a major plus & the investigating authorities would also take that into account. Why would La Mirada de Las Vegas make a mountain out of a molehill?

:lol::lol::lol: I have not heard of this word in a long long while "mirese" something, heck, I forgot that term is as old as dirt.... I use to hear it when I was little I believe.

Please also note that on top of these fees, there's also what we call as the TRAVEL TAX for international departures. Hala, puro nalang TAX!!!

Terminal Fee - Airport User's Tax
Travel Tax - Philippine Tourism Authority
Aviation Security Fee - AVESCOM ata 'to

I really don't know if my Airport Tax pa. As far as I know, "this is where your taxes go" (famous line ba?) :lol:

I doubt if strict ang Airport Authorities or CAAP sa pag conduct ng audit/liquidation or inventory sa terminal fees. Sana computerized na ang receipt para easily tracked or accounted. :ohno:

I dont think there is an Airport tax in the Philippines. Terminal fee is a fee. it's for the use of the facility just as how airline companies especially legacy carriers would use the amenities and facilities just like the jetbridges. All airports all over the world charge the airline companies for the usage of these, it is inclusive in the airfare as an added fee just as how we as passengers pay the baggage handlers to load and unload our check in luggages in both destinations. This is why in LCCs, we get charged per luggages, we pay for any inflight services including food because it what makes their airfare cheaper so passengers have to squeeze in the budget or else you would pay extra including seat preferences and priority boarding. So, basically, the terminal fee is where the Airport manager would also have to get the maintence and cleanliness of the airport facilities etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohol Guy

It was a maintenance issue of the airline which left the airport in Manila, we'll find out how this incident will play out and its effect if any on the ongoing dilemma plaguing the aviation industry in the Philippines.

Funny, I did not say this, this was JBK's statement.

I dont think there is an Airport tax in the Philippines. Terminal fee is a fee. it's for the use of the facility just as how airline companies especially legacy carriers would use the amenities and facilities just like the jetbridges. All airports all over the world charge the airline companies for the usage of these, it is inclusive in the airfare as an added fee just as how we as passengers pay the baggage handlers to load and unload our check in luggages in both destinations. This is why in LCCs, we get charged per luggages, we pay for any inflight services including food because it what makes their airfare cheaper so passengers have to squeeze in the budget or else you would pay extra including seat preferences and priority boarding. So, basically, the terminal fee is where the Airport manager would also have to get the maintence and cleanliness of the airport facilities etc.

I am not normally for increasing taxes but perhaps the tax should be uniform at all airports nationwide. Some airports charge 50 peso. The bigger ones charge much more.. If all provincial airports charged the same rate with a portion going to the local airport and a portion for the hub airports, that could be a solution. As long as the money is trackable which is a problem in itself. Provincial airports need the hubs. This way improvements are made everywhere. The easy way of course is to put the fees into the ticket price. Each airport along the itinerary can share the fee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohol Guy

It was a maintenance issue of the airline which left the airport in Manila, we'll find out how this incident will play out and its effect if any on the ongoing dilemma plaguing the aviation industry in the Philippines.

Funny, I did not say this, this was JBK's statement.

Yes sorry. I got confused because I saw his name above the comment in that box. I thought it was a quote from what he said that just failed when [/QUOTE] was missed, i tried to correct most of it.

I am not normally for increasing taxes but perhaps the tax should be uniform at all airports nationwide. Some airports charge 50 peso. The bigger ones charge much more.. If all provincial airports charged the same rate with a portion going to the local airport and a portion for the hub airports, that could be a solution. As long as the money is trackable which is a problem in itself. Provincial airports need the hubs. This way improvements are made everywhere. The easy way of course is to put the fees into the ticket price. Each airport along the itinerary can share the fee.

True. I do agree on that one and I guess it was from JBKayaker comment before because it is a hassle not just for the fact that you have to queue in line for it but just the idea that you have to make sure you would have an exact amount for it in peso when normally, you get rid of your peso as much as possible when leaving the country(its okay to keep a small amount for peso souveneir).

@mwg12a]^^^^^^^^^

Take it easy, you're getting your panties in a bunch. :lol:

Check the last comment quoted to Bohol Guy just to show you not all of what you said I contradicted. Besides, the bottom line is, "NOBODY" has been in disagreement with you that note that the government needs to work much harder to get that Cat 2 status lifted. I am not sure why you have to preach on it to everybody when every body knew it already and are very much aware of it, it's just the details of your side comments that caused the frictions.

I know but just because there is a post meant for you or for someone else it does not mean that you have to respond to all of it. Just saying.....

I know but just because there is a post meant for you or for someone else it does not mean that you have to respond to all of it. Just saying.....

Well, like you said. We are entitled to comment and express our own opinions right? It means if something is repulsive, we are entitled to react and made it known.

True. I do agree on that one and I guess it was from JBKayaker comment before because it is a hassle not just for the fact that you have to queue in line for it but just the idea that you have to make sure you would have an exact amount for it in peso when normally, you get rid of your peso as much as possible when leaving the country(its okay to keep a small amount for peso souveneir).

No problems. You are exactly right as far as the issue of having exact change for the fee. Part of this is employing people at the airport to collect the fees. No one wants to lose their job but having duplicate jobs tends to be not efficient. You have the fee collectors then the security guard that makes sure you did pay the fee before going through security or immigration. At most airports you have lots of porters when only a handful get the business but the others butt in to divide the spoils. We usually pick one porter to get our bags but by the time the bags are collected, three porters are waiting for their tip. This annoys westerners.

Well, like you said. We are entitled to comment and express our own opinions right? It means if something is repulsive, we are entitled to react and made it known.

No, you missed the point but carry on if it is going to make you happy!!:cheers:

oh boy... PLEASE everyone.. let's just try to ignore jbkayaker12 as much as we can...it seems he has a personal vendetta with anything about the Philippines... so please to keep the peace in our threads.. simply ignore his comments just to stop the mud slinging... the more counter-replies to him makes him win the battle by making the image of the country worse than what it is now plus caressing his ego..

if he likes to flame up people.. let him be and just IGNORE him since I think he has put everyone in his ignore list anyway... it's so painful to go into the threads this past days because of this... for everybody's sakes please!

^^ No worries senyor, I see someone is in the brig. :lol: :lol:

***

Now let's see what the other clone is up to ... ;)

Travel Tax that I object. Vehemently.

San ba talaga napupunta tong PTT na to, sa bulsa ni Mark Lapid? :lol:

and to make the payment booth for the airport tax at T1 look even more like amateur hour, the equivalent amount in $USD is in cartolina with the cents amount as a cut out since it is being adjusted for the change in exchange rate.....very few foreigners carry US coins at this juncture of their trip since they are not in the US....it should just be rounded to the nearest dollar since the change is given in peso anyway...

this is no different to Bangko Sentral continuing to issue 1,5,10 centavo coins...why be so precise when they have no value and most of the time we dont get exact change anyway.

^^ No worries senyor, I see someone is in the brig. :lol: :lol:

***

Now let's see what the other clone is up to ... ;)

yup.. thanks to Manila-X.. at least there will be some peace here at least until his return...

Any picture updates?

I don't know if this has already been posted, but MIAA's website has gotten a facelift.

www.miaa.gov.ph

http://i54.tinypic.com/29z7n8.jpg

Travel Tax that I object. Vehemently.
Exactly!!! I really find it useless though, really!!! It's just something added on your expenses. :bash:

I dont think there is an Airport tax in the Philippines. Terminal fee is a fee. it's for the use of the facility just as how airline companies especially legacy carriers would use the amenities and facilities just like the jetbridges. All airports all over the world charge the airline companies for the usage of these, it is inclusive in the airfare as an added fee just as how we as passengers pay the baggage handlers to load and unload our check in luggages in both destinations. This is why in LCCs, we get charged per luggages, we pay for any inflight services including food because it what makes their airfare cheaper so passengers have to squeeze in the budget or else you would pay extra including seat preferences and priority boarding. So, basically, the terminal fee is where the Airport manager would also have to get the maintence and cleanliness of the airport facilities etc.

I know what's the terminal fee is for. :)

^^^^ great photo, thanks for sharing! :)

nice photo, as usual!

could have been taken around midday?

nice photo, as usual!

could have been taken around midday?

Thanks! That was around 1000 AM.

San ba talaga napupunta tong PTT na to, sa bulsa ni Mark Lapid? :lol:

BffCNt_3r2o

:lol::lol::lol:

^^ Wahahaha! Ang epic fail nan! :lol:

http://i54.tinypic.com/29z7n8.jpg

BEAUTIFUL SHOT LIGHTNING099 !!! Salamat Po !!!:banana::banana::banana: