Nelspruit to be renamed Mbombela

October 16 2009 , 11:45:00

SABC News

Nelspruit in Mpumalanga will soon be renamed Mbombela, after Arts and Culture Minister Lulu Xingwana approved the name change at the recommendation of the South African Geographical Names Council. Other approved name changes include Belfast to eMakhazeni, Waterval Boven to Emgwenya and Machadodorp to eNtokozweni.

Organised business and some opposition parties opposed the renaming of Nelspruit during the consultation meetings. Xingwana says the present name changes are a restitution process. She says the name change, besides being restorative justice, also provides people with a sense of national identity.

Yesterday it was reported that the Mbombela 2010 stadium in Nelspruit had been officially completed. Construction of the R1 billion 43 000-seater stadium began two years ago. The Mbombela Stadium Joint Venture, the company contracted to build it, has handed over the structure to the local municipality.

Though the construction of the stadium is complete, some projects such as the road networks around the stadium still need to be completed. Basil Read Chief Executive Officer Marius Heyns says the funding came a little bit late but it will be fairly quick to complete the outer works, which entail parking and paving areas.

Good, Mbombela sounds much better.

^^ awesome, another town to lose its identity - yeah ANC.

^ I see it differently.

In my opinion, this city is forming an identity that truly represents its population. Those who speak Afrikaans as their first language are less than 7% (probably lower now) of the population in the Mpumalanga province (so I assume they are also a tiny minority in this town), while Bantu speakers are in the vast majority. A loss for the tiny minority, but not for the majority.

I hope to see more of this. Hopefully the next change will be Pretoria ---> Tshwane.

^^ plus its really good for the continuity of the towns tourism industry. such vision. hope they have a multi-million rand party to celebrate the much needed name change! viva

Unnecessary because of all the costs involved and the animosity this will create.I don't get the minister's justification for the name change nor will I get Afriforum's imminent retaliation.Of does the name of the area give its citizens and in the same breath,how does changing the name remove one's Afrikaans heritage,culture?Several towns have been renamed in the past and I don't think I'm more Xhosa because of that nor is there anybody that's less Afrikaans.

:lol: willayster. vive le resistance! My view on the matter is that if the actual place was named Mbombela before Europeans who migrated there "discovered it" then cool, change it back. That's justice. Renaming things that weren't there to begin with is another story. Kwame, the majority cannot claim that since they are in the majority, they can bulldoze the minority without even putting things to a vote. That's how democracy dies. We need to look after our minorities or we are no better than America just in reverse. Tourism isn't much of an issue because campaigns can be launched to make tourists aware of the change. Yes people associate names with a certain vibe that they experienced there but once they see that its still the same place, in the long run it wont matter so much that they changed the name.

re the party, I hope those fools don't waste any more money doing this than is necessary. Its depressing to see people chowing money they didn't work for when other issues are waiting. The issues that they were actually mandated to sort out.

^^ well said fly-ma-boi.

kwame might have watched one to many malcom X film.

Regardless of it being a bad thing, Apartheid happened. We can't simply ignore our history. Certain tows and cities have their names as a result of white rule, and changing names only stirs up unnecessary trouble. If they revert to pre-Apartheid names then by all means go ahead. Why they can't simply name new towns and cities African names, instead, is beyond me.

But to be honest this isn't too bad a change. You get some utterly stupid name changes (like airport name changes).

completely agree with lydon. There would not be the towns and cities in South Africa there is today if it were not for white immigration and/or rule. Not saying this is a good or bad thing, just a simple fact (please no racial comments). Maybe its representing the population of nelspruit, but its not representing it's history. that would just be a complete insult to the people that actually started and helped create and make this city work. New african towns - as lydon pointed out - should be called whatever their new founders want to call it. Renaming places that have no negative connotations is ridiculous and money wasting. That money could be spent elsewhere. It's an easy way to make things look as if they're changing for the better... names are names and I'm sure the tourists could not care less.

SA has surely other problems to solve than renaming cities and streets, problems won´t decrease when a city will be called Mbombela instead of Nelspruit.:ohno:

I am never in favour of renaming places even in Spain, they should have kept all their Arabic names , this was part of history, good or bad, it is history...build new cities and then give them new names but renaming old ones. No thanks.

i think naming a city after the natives is good but not all...this is a small cities nobody really care about...the main 3 cities in south africa are joburg, cape town and durban..nobody is renaming those.....so nelspruit wants to be renamed big deal.......indianapolis, milwaukee, oahu, honolulu are not english names...but american cities named after the natives...

One of you, said they should have much rather, put it into vote, and that it was undemocratic to just change it. Assuming it wasn't democratically voted by the masses, then who do you think would have won the elections had it been put up for public debate? Democracy favours the MASSES. This is by no means a justification of the financial costs involved in name changing(changing road signs, map's e.t.c) but it however does much better represent the larger population of nelspruit( or should i say mbombela) which ultimately is of bigger importance than finance. If we put the argument "WE HAVE LOT'S OF OTHER ISSUES TO ATTEND TO" Forward everytime something is needed to be done, then eventualy nothing will be done.

This isn't remotely "needed to be done."

Oh but it is.

I think the large portion of our country living in poverty would disagree with that.

Oh but they wouldn't, lol. Im sure they would much rather have it named mbombela than nelspruit any day(them being black and all, you know!). Sure there's cost's involved but let's be honest, its not that large a cost. So benefits far outweigh negatives. Its not not like they will make a complete overhaul, and change it all at once Lydon, i'm sure like most other name changes it will be a graduall thing, Over certain time period.

What I donţt understand is why a city cannot have different names in different languages in SA. For instance, why insead renaming to Mbombela, they don't call it Nelspruit/Mbombela officialy? Anyone can choose the to say Mbombela or Nelspruit and so on. Exemples in the world: Leuven/Louvain, Bruxelles/Brussels (Belgium), Oradea/Nagyvarad (Romania) Geneve/Genf (Switzerland), Yerushalaim/Al-Quds/Jerusalem (Israel), and there are many more exemples...

Its restorative justice, my man, restorative justice.

Kwazi bra, who mentioned public debate as a means of voting? Its unfortunate that as black people who have made it a little higher up the ladder of luck, we feel we can prescribe to the "disadvantaged" lot what's good for them. Which "disadvantaged" guy in the hood ever said to you "you know Kwazi, life here is kak, there's raw sewage that's been flowing down my street for a year now and no-one has come to fix it. We run out of water and it takes them forever to turn it back on. My daughter got mugged last week and instead of just robbing her they beat her up too and the police didn't even take a statement. But despite all this, Im glad they are changing street names and names of towns and cities. It shows they are working for me."

These guys were NOT mandated to change names! It was not on any election manifesto, no-one spoke about it during electioneering. You know why? Because no-one gives a damn what a place is called until that place has basic services covered. Thats why Im saying its not needed otherwise the politicians would've realised that that's what people want. Lofty projects such as these should be undertaken when we have some sort of smooth running machines called provincial and local government that are sorting out all other, MORE IMPORTANT, issues.

Now as you read, I wrote that if the place was called something else before, then change it back post-haste if the community mandates you to do so. By the way, did any official try to find out from their constituents if they want the name changed?

I'll tell you one thing, officials wouldn't be fooling around like this if we werent all voting out of loyalty for people who arent loyal to our cause anymore.

SA has surely other problems to solve than renaming cities and streets, problems won´t decrease when a city will be called Mbombela instead of Nelspruit.:ohno:

I am never in favour of renaming places even in Spain, they should have kept all their Arabic names , this was part of history, good or bad, it is history...build new cities and then give them new names but renaming old ones. No thanks.

This isn't remotely "needed to be done."

What I donţt understand is why a city cannot have different names in different languages in SA. For instance, why insead renaming to Mbombela, they don't call it Nelspruit/Mbombela officialy? Anyone can choose the to say Mbombela or Nelspruit and so on. Exemples in the world: Leuven/Louvain, Bruxelles/Brussels (Belgium), Oradea/Nagyvarad (Romania) Geneve/Genf (Switzerland), Yerushalaim/Al-Quds/Jerusalem (Israel), and there are many more exemples...

Kwazi bra, who mentioned public debate as a means of voting? Its unfortunate that as black people who have made it a little higher up the ladder of luck, we feel we can prescribe to the "disadvantaged" lot what's good for them. Which "disadvantaged" guy in the hood ever said to you "you know Kwazi, life here is kak, there's raw sewage that's been flowing down my street for a year now and no-one has come to fix it. We run out of water and it takes them forever to turn it back on. My daughter got mugged last week and instead of just robbing her they beat her up too and the police didn't even take a statement. But despite all this, Im glad they are changing street names and names of towns and cities. It shows they are working for me."

These guys were NOT mandated to change names! It was not on any election manifesto, no-one spoke about it during electioneering. You know why? Because no-one gives a damn what a place is called until that place has basic services covered. Thats why Im saying its not needed otherwise the politicians would've realised that that's what people want. Lofty projects such as these should be undertaken when we have some sort of smooth running machines called provincial and local government that are sorting out all other, MORE IMPORTANT, issues.

Now as you read, I wrote that if the place was called something else before, then change it back post-haste if the community mandates you to do so. By the way, did any official try to find out from their constituents if they want the name changed?

I'll tell you one thing, officials wouldn't be fooling around like this if we werent all voting out of loyalty for people who arent loyal to our cause anymore.

Good to see there are still a few people left with common sense......

What a place is called does not add or subtract to the social ill's in that particular place, right? Then why is it a problem when they change it? Whether or not there are much bigger problems is besides the point. NO ONE EVER SAID "THROUGH THESE NAME CHANGES WE WILL RID OURSELVES OF THESE SOCIAL PROBLEMS". They are giving back South Africa to it's indigenous people, is that a bad thing? @flyboi show me one political party anywhere in the world which sticks to its manifesto, or one that never makes small changes, with the intentions of increasing social cohesion.

What a place is called does not add or subtract to the social ill's in that particular place, right? Then why is a problem when they change it? Whether or not there are much bigger problems is besides the point. NO ONE EVER SAID "THROUGH THESE NAME CHANGES WE WILL RID OURSELVES OF THESE SOCIAL PROBLEMS". They are giving back South Africa to it's indigenous people, is that a bad thing? @flyboi show me one political party anywhere in the world which sticks to its manifesto, or one that never makes small changes, with the intentions of increasing social cohesion.

Really? Look what the reaction has been in this forum. Dont think this is promoting social cohesion, that comes in many other ways.

oh and btw, the indigenous people? Zulus and hence the Xhosas only arrived in South Africa a few hundred years before the whites arrived, the real indigenous people of this country are the San, but i dont hear them naming ANYTHING for them.

What a place is called does not add or subtract to the social ill's in that particular place, right? Then why is it a problem when they change it? Whether or not there are much bigger problems is besides the point. NO ONE EVER SAID "THROUGH THESE NAME CHANGES WE WILL RID OURSELVES OF THESE SOCIAL PROBLEMS". They are giving back South Africa to it's indigenous people, is that a bad thing? @flyboi show me one political party anywhere in the world which sticks to its manifesto, or one that never makes small changes, with the intentions of increasing social cohesion.

If your first two sentences are indeed true, why is it a problem if they keep current names? There are much bigger problems, so by your own logic, by changing the name they're wasting their time and the time of those whom they work for.

As previously said, the indigenous people are the San, and this clearly isn't favouring them. So this little notion of "we're giving SA but to it's true owners" is not only the mentality that has resulted in almost every country North of us being one big stuff-up, but it is also a lie created to justify an attempt at eliminating our history.

This isn't remotely increasing social cohesion. Does this thread scream cohesion to you?

Bull. It's just the ANC government wanting to spend millions on useless things again. If it's not million Rand cars, it's name changing.

Waiting for the proposal from government to change South Africa to some uK... uM... name aswell.

*Watch this space*

I say...

Better schools, more teachers, better courts, more cops, fixed roads, good infrastructure, staffed clinics and competent local councils...

Screw the name!!! It's the above that counts, not the millions of rands to change "Text."

Just another cheap political ploy in provinces where local municipalities do not perform on par. Sure next they'll change the name of Standerton to quell the violence in townships there... that will be Mpumalanga government's solution for making the masses happier.

"Rather than fix the things that are difficult to fix, but that really matter, let's give the local populous some 'cheap political opium' to give them a quick fix of short-term happiness, it'll make it look like we're doing something at least."

Kwazi, I say do what I voted for you to do and THEN if you see other things that need righting, right them. Just remember not to erase the existence of others in your rightings. If you would rather focus your time trying to change names instead of actually bettering the service I get then next time I wont vote for you. Thats democracy. Wouldnt you agree?

Mpumalanga has major corruption and delivery problems boss and name changing should be the last thing on the agenda but somehow its happening before basic services are fully rolled out. Im sure you also see the skewness of the prioritising. Somethin aint right there.

Many individuals had stated some good solid points. To keep it quick, the more of South Africa's city names are changed in the future, the less foreigners including myself will recognize or remember them.

I really hope the upper tier cities aren't renamed in the future also, that being Durban, Cape Town or Johannesburg. This is of course coming from a foreign perspective.

It is usual in history that a few cities are renamed, it has happened at many locations, some are corrupted in forms from the former title. as "Matt" mentioned Spain, Qurtuba (Arabic) = Cordoba, Gadir (Phoenician) = Cadiz. While others been renamed and in a few occasions, Byzantion - Constantinople (Greek & Latin variations) = Istanbul (Turkish) around the 1930's.

^^ Changing "Higher Order" global cities would be a catastrophe, due to South Africa's high international profile and the marketing gains we have made internationally since 1994. To change globally recognised cities' names would be a tourism marketing, investment marketing and global competitiveness nightmare. Cities today are not just places where people live and work, they are brand names in themselves.

Johannesburg could do with a name change. The name has since 1994 become synonymous with murder, robbery, rape. So even though it would come at an expense, a name change would give the city a 2nd life-line, ofcourse better governance and all would still be needed.

Johannesburg could do with a name change. The name has since 1994 become synonymous with murder, robbery, rape. So even though it would come at an expense, a name change would give the city a 2nd life-line, ofcourse better governance and all would still be needed.
Completely disagree. Changing Johannesburg's name could costs in the region of R10billion in loss of market-share, loss of investment due to "unknown marketing", at least R5billion in businesses having to rename and adjust their addresses and logistical costs of being in a "new city." R1billion in road signs alone.

In a recession, this in unsustainable and completely unwarranted. After 2010, no city can change their name. It's the biggest marketing our cities will ever get in our lifetime.

Agreed with Annman. To me, there is only one Johannesburg, which is notable, a visual image of it's features comes to the mind. Same goes for Cape Town and Durban, there is a lot of history and population there. Renaming a few lower tier and even some upper tier cities in the past was probably more accepted than it is today, the fact we are speaking of many different epochs that is long behind us, different mentalities then. But most of it was either corrupted or gradual forms of the former.

The name Cape Town has zero political connotation to it, it is simply a geographic name, so there will never be any valid dispute. The name in itself markets the city in saying where it is and what is there: i.e. Cape of Good Hope/Cape Peninsula in The Cape of South Africa. Also, the name is accepted and completely made endemic by it being translatable to all local languages:

iKapa/Kaapstad/Cape Town

Johannesburg too, has not direct political connotation, not being named after any politician or person of political or colonial importance. It too has been morphed to accommodate the local vernacular being known as Joburg, Jozi, Egoli or just Johannesburg.

maybe they should change the ANC's name, to something like "useless fckers party" or maybe just "party" cause that seems to be the only thing that are able to organize and manage. pfft

All these name changes are just part of the systematic cultural genocide being exercised against the Afrikaners by the ANC :ohno:

All these name changes are just part of the systematic cultural genocide being exercised against the Afrikaners by the ANC :ohno:

I tend to think that old names that are completely offensive, like "Vervoedburg" for example (which is now Centurion) should be changed, but things that have no direct Apartheid naming and whose names date too far back to be in any living memory should be left alone.

I agree the country needs to become more representative of all cultural group's history, but in this, I think new settlements/towns, roads, suburbs, stadiums, schools, infrastructure should reflect the other side of our past, honouring those who fought for the struggle and cultural heroes not yet honoured, like King Shaka for the new airport. Leave what exists alone so we all can remember the intricate and hard-fought history of this country; don't erase our history, good or bad... history stands as a reminder to future generations not to repeat past mistakes.

I tend to think that old names that are completely offensive, like "Vervoedburg" for example (which is now Centurion) should be changed, but things that have no direct Apartheid naming and whose names date too far back to be in any living memory should be left alone.

I agree the country needs to become more representative of all cultural group's history, but in this, I think new settlements/towns, roads, suburbs, stadiums, schools, infrastructure should reflect the other side of our past, honouring those who fought for the struggle and cultural heroes not yet honoured, like King Shaka for the new airport. Leave what exists alone so we all can remember the intricate and hard-fought history of this country; don't erase our history, good or bad... history stands as a reminder to future generations not to repeat past mistakes.

I agree 100%. Some names like Verwoerdburg should be changed no questions asked and also that place names should include everyone's cultural heritage in this great country but some names, like Pretoria, Potchefstroom and Nelspruit, strike right at the heart of the Afrikaner and their history and will only divide the people more instead of bringing them closer together.

What is Nelspruit's history? Who founded it? Why is it called Nelspruit?

According to wikipedia: "Nelspruit was founded in 1905 by three brothers of the Nel family who grazed their cattle around the site of Nelspruit during the winter months."

So renaming the city would steal the honour from the Nel brothers who once had the vision to find a town there.

If it was founded by someone else, rename the city in their honour.

16 year's ago this country was as divided as any country could be, and frankly 16 year's later nothing much has changed. evidence to this would be the 4(white) Free State Univ. Students, how black people sit in one section of the class, and white people sit in another in all univ. Across the country, how mostly white people think the ANC is an organisation run by incompetent fools(mostly because they are black, though thats not how they like putting it). I dont expect anyone to openly admitte this fact, because we as South Africans have invested a lot of time and energy to "fake-it-till-we-make-it" but every now and then our true selves leak out and i feel thats when most of us(especially white people) are the most happy. We have different mentalities, so different infact that we view the world as differently as any two people could. I really know what i want to say and it makes sense in my head, but i cant explain it in words unfortunately. Please dont ban me.

Yeah i agree with you, there is still a long way to go. But what your rant has to do with renaming Nelspruit is beyond me. Make another thread and have a debate about your ideas there please.

What does Mbombela mean . In Shona the word Mbombera is used to refer to a place where many people live. It is also used to refer to economy class in trains.

Famous SA towns wiped off maps

42 towns and places, including Waterval Boven, get new names

Another batch of South Africa’s famous place names, including Waterval Boven, Belfast and Nelspruit have been consigned to history.

Belfast has become eMakhazeni, Waterval Boven is now officially Emgwenya and Nelspruit is Mbombela.

Forty-two names changes have been approved by the South African Geographical Names Council. A government statement said some of the old names were offensive and others commemorated people who were “cruel” to the vast majority of South Africans.

“South Africa has come out of a long history of struggle and oppression during which period many names of places and features were imposed, without any consultation, on even places that already had names. Some of the names were offensive and others commemorated people who were heroes to a small number but who were cruel to the vast majority.”

The Minister of Arts and Culture, Ms Lulu Xingwana, said: “As we strive towards a more inclusive national identity it is important that names of places reflect a true sense of what it means to be proudly South African. We as a nation possess the present and the future.”

More name changes

2009-10-19 16:07

Mbombela - The name of Mpumalanga's capital city has been changed from Nelspruit to Mbombela.

This follows Arts and Culture Minister Lulu Xingwana's publication on Friday in the government gazette of a list of 42 geographical name changes which she had approved between July 28 and September 2 this year.

"Some of the approved name changes in Mpumalanga are Belfast to eMakhazeni, Waterval Boven to Emgwenya, Machadodorp to eNtokozweni, and Nelspruit to Mbombela," said department spokesperson Premi Appalraju on Monday.

She said Xingwana's approval followed the recommendation of the South African Geographical Names Council (SAGNC).

Missed opportunity

SAGNC councillor and provincial geographical names committee (PGNC) deputy chairperson Mpyane Ratau-Dlamini said the Lowveld Chamber of Business and Tourism (LCBT), which is opposed to the name change, had missed two consultation meetings.

Previously, the chamber threatened to take legal action against Xingwana should she gazette the name change.

On Monday, the chamber's tourism division chairperson, Sandra Jacobs, said she was still consulting other board members on a way forward now that the name change has been gazetted.

In the minutes of the consultation meeting in February, two chamber officials are recorded as having shown up for the meeting but they left because of "business pressures".

Current names can stay - for now

In the minutes, Ehlanzeni district municipality representative Jackson Siboza said the businessmen obviously "did not think the matter was that important".

He stated in the minutes that 75% of people in 36 wards around Nelspruit had supported the proposed names.

Ratau-Dlamini promised that businesses would not be forced to change their street addresses or remove name boards immediately and that street name signs would remain "for a while".

"People will have three years to change everything," she said.


- African Eye

Students, how black people sit in one section of the class, and white people sit in another in all univ.

As a student at the University of Pretoria, I would say that the inclusion of the word "all" makes that sentence a lie.

Please attend classes at Tuks so you can see what is happening. I would actually like to go on a tour on campus with you so you can show me a class where students sit in separate sections.

16 year's ago this country was as divided as any country could be, and frankly 16 year's later nothing much has changed. evidence to this would be the 4(white) Free State Univ. Students, how black people sit in one section of the class, and white people sit in another in all univ. Across the country, how mostly white people think the ANC is an organisation run by incompetent fools(mostly because they are black, though thats not how they like putting it). I dont expect anyone to openly admitte this fact, because we as South Africans have invested a lot of time and energy to "fake-it-till-we-make-it" but every now and then our true selves leak out and i feel thats when most of us(especially white people) are the most happy. We have different mentalities, so different infact that we view the world as differently as any two people could. I really know what i want to say and it makes sense in my head, but i cant explain it in words unfortunately. Please dont ban me. ? ? ? Okay... and what point? It seems like you're trying to make the Reitz (some dumb-ass, varsity student) video have any baring on Mpumalanga, 700km away? Go to any other varsity in SA, you'd have any colour g-friend you'd like!

As a student at the University of Pretoria, I would say that the inclusion of the word "all" makes that sentence a lie.

Please attend classes at Tuks so you can see what is happening. I would actually like to go on a tour on campus with you so you can show me a class where students sit in separate sections.

Well firstly good morning,, dude if this happens at Wits(English speaking varsity, and perhaps South Africa's most racially inclusive institution), i doubt it wouldn't happen at Tukkies. Every class is like that, of course there are exceptions, [excuse the wild generalizationbut] though thats only for a few "top notch" black students joining the white clan, or the "beat up" whites who join blacks.....this conversation is getting out of hand, and i wish not to continue with it anymore....so in keeping relevant to the thread, Nelspruit should be changed and that's fine for me and apparently 75% other residents of that area.

? ? ? Okay... and what point? It seems like you're trying to make the Reitz (some dumb-ass, varsity student) video have any baring on Mpumalanga, 700km away? Go to any other varsity in SA, you'd have any colour g-friend you'd like!

Annman you're white right?,, Right, thats good, you have a black chick? Never mind, this doesn't prove anything...uhm, America got integrated(racially) how long ago? Would you say people there aren't "racey" towards each other. . .S.A did so 16year's ago, of course there's tension, still. Im not saying anyone is bad here *rolling eyes, tongue in cheek* our integration is taking place as "normally" as it can, if not better than normal. But fact: we're still divided across the racial border. And if you're going to say otherwise, then you're not as smart as i initially thought you to be. Sigh... Oh and, good morning!:)

^^ I am American... America is more racist than South Africa is in many respects. And they've been at the "integration" thing since the late 60's. Give SA a chance... I think South Africans are doing amazingly to get over their past history of pain. If you'd travel more and live in more countries, you'd realise South Africa isn't that bad, considering.

PS. How the f&ck is Waterval Boven offensive, "Above the Falls" is offensive?!?!? Spin a new frikken story!!! :ohno: I feel sorry for small businesses, entrepreneurs and little family run companies in these towns... now, amidst a recession, they have to change crap, just an additional expense nobody can afford right now. These provincial governments have no sense of priorities. Sort out service delivery first! People are protesting in townships in Standerton over services and poor governance, not over names!!!

I'm so glad I live in a province with some sense of governmental priorities.

I was under the impression the Mbombella refered to the metropolitan area around Nelspruit. :?

^^ Yeah it did, it referred to the metropolitan district around it. it means "a place where many people live". Now they want to change the actual town name, which strikes me as odd because the town is still majority afrikaans.

^^ Yeah it did, it referred to the metropolitan district around it. it means "a place where many people live". Now they want to change the actual town name, which strikes me as odd because the town is still majority afrikaans.
What's odd about it? In these banana-republic provinces, name changes do not happen with public participation, it happens due to "politicians wanting to look like they're doing something," because it's easy to change a name, but difficult to fight crime, poverty, backlogs of maintenance and lack of delivery; So they chose the "opium for the masses" route.

42 towns and places, including Waterval Boven, get new names


I was just wondering what the total cost of all these 42 name changes are... Not cheap I guarantee it, allot of people could have had houses or education with that money! :ohno:

I was just wondering what the total cost of all these 42 name changes are... Not cheap I guarantee it, allot of people could have had houses or education with that money! :ohno:

If government were to spend that money on education, e.g. educating *itself* it would realise that its arguments regarding name changes are illogical, incoherent and at best incongruent. Surely then spending money on education would be offensive for a government that so desperately wants to maintain its position as “representative” of a mass it has failed to properly educate?

That aside, signs are normally changed by riveting new sign boards on top. Perhaps it’s time for a little “managed rebellion”. Who has an eclectic drill? – I’m sure it won’t take too long to remove the new signs. I think this is only fair considering how many people in Soweto think its fair to revolt if the government wants to stop them from stealing electricity...

All of that aside – imagine the tourist next year... “Where the hell is Nelspruit?”

Lol...clutching at straws Kwazi.

Annman you're white right? But fact: we're still divided across the racial border. And if you're going to say otherwise, then you're not as smart as i initially thought you to be.
:lol: Oh dear, I've been fooling myself then... You should inform national departments and the leadership of the Western Cape, so they can distance themselves from my pale-dumb-ass! :)

What's odd about it? In these banana-republic provinces, name changes do not happen with public participation, it happens due to "politicians wanting to look like they're doing something," because it's easy to change a name, but difficult to fight crime, poverty, backlogs of maintenance and lack of delivery; So they chose the "opium for the masses" route.

Ye i know, if you read my posts i said just that.

Ye i know, if you read my posts i said just that.
I'm feeling verbose today! Sorry I repeated what you said, got passionate about the topic and just posted. At least we're in agreement.

i don't see Germany renaming Berlin, Kaiserslaurtern, Munich, Bavaria. I don't see Poland renaming Auschwitz . i don't see Volkswagen renaming it's company, or Mercedes Benz. i don't see France renaming Strasbourg.

My thoughts exactly Kabelo

I'm feeling verbose today! Sorry I repeated what you said, got passionate about the topic and just posted. At least we're in agreement.

Hahaha no worries. This is also something that i feel passionate about...

I may be an outsider but for me this stinks of a black majority government trying to slowly but surely wipe out every single reference to it's countries white past.

There is no balance of power, the black majority are now in power and they are letting you know it

Sorry if that offends anyone but that's how it looks to me

Well firstly good morning,, dude if this happens at Wits(English speaking varsity, and perhaps South Africa's most racially inclusive institution), i doubt it wouldn't happen at Tukkies. Every class is like that, of course there are exceptions, [excuse the wild generalizationbut] though thats only for a few "top notch" black students joining the white clan, or the "beat up" whites who join blacks.....this conversation is getting out of hand, and i wish not to continue with it anymore....so in keeping relevant to the thread, Nelspruit should be changed and that's fine for me and apparently 75% other residents of that area.

Cool, show me a white section and a black section in classes in Wits then, but I would not be able to do this at Tuks.

If you have a problem with black people not being friends with white people and vice versa and think that is racism, I would say you are missing the point. Afrikaans people and English people are not racist towards each other. Yet you still find predominantly English groups of friends and predominantly Afrikaans groups. Even among people who speaks the same language you have different groups of friends based on things like level of intelligence, income ect. This is due to the fact that people hang out with people who are similar to them, but whenever South Africans are faced with an international challenge we stick together glue.

The changing of the name of Nelspruit is a national issue and therefore you will hear opinions of all different groups (not necessarily based on skin colour, but on far more advanced social complexities).

I think there is no point in changing the name of a town or city. If you want to name a town, create your own town. Property developers are doing it every day, perhaps government should follow their example. Waterfall City.

I also believe there are much more pushing social issues hampering the development of South Africa, when these are addressed income inequality in South Africa will shrink and this will contribute to much more overall equality among all groups in South Africa.

Yah I'm not against name changes in principle, and I think Mbombela sounds a great deal better than Nelspruit, but the problem with name changes is that city official energies are focused where they shouldn't be, and the result are people being pissed off and blockading roads in protest.

It's all really 'glossy governance' - 'managing' a city by changing its name, having a big swanky party as Willayster said (and tons of speeches too, all protocol observed), but not getting to what makes a city function to the best of its abilities.

If government wants to show that it is committed to transformation through the use of a symbolic gesture, they should give up those ridiculous blue lights cars and ride around town in a toyota. That will be REAL transformation.

^^ I am American... America is more racist than South Africa is in many respects. And they've been at the "integration" thing since the late 60's. Give SA a chance... I think South Africans are doing amazingly to get over their past history of pain. If you'd travel more and live in more countries, you'd realise South Africa isn't that bad, considering.

PS. How the f&ck is Waterval Boven offensive, "Above the Falls" is offensive?!?!? Spin a new frikken story!!! :ohno: I feel sorry for small businesses, entrepreneurs and little family run companies in these towns... now, amidst a recession, they have to change crap, just an additional expense nobody can afford right now. These provincial governments have no sense of priorities. Sort out service delivery first! People are protesting in townships in Standerton over services and poor governance, not over names!!!

I'm so glad I live in a province with some sense of governmental priorities.

Wow that's a big statement. I don't think you can deny that South Africa is far more segregated at very single level of society compared to the U.S. I think what South Africa has done over the years is extremely incredible but it really is two nations within one that live in relative harmony with very little integration. That's not exactly unity.

Famous SA towns wiped off maps

42 towns and places, including Waterval Boven, get new names

Another batch of South Africa’s famous place names, including Waterval Boven, Belfast and Nelspruit have been consigned to history.

Belfast has become eMakhazeni, Waterval Boven is now officially Emgwenya and Nelspruit is Mbombela.

Forty-two names changes have been approved by the South African Geographical Names Council. A government statement said some of the old names were offensive and others commemorated people who were “cruel” to the vast majority of South Africans.

“South Africa has come out of a long history of struggle and oppression during which period many names of places and features were imposed, without any consultation, on even places that already had names. Some of the names were offensive and others commemorated people who were heroes to a small number but who were cruel to the vast majority.”

The Minister of Arts and Culture, Ms Lulu Xingwana, said: “As we strive towards a more inclusive national identity it is important that names of places reflect a true sense of what it means to be proudly South African. We as a nation possess the present and the future.”

More name changes

2009-10-19 16:07

Mbombela - The name of Mpumalanga's capital city has been changed from Nelspruit to Mbombela.

This follows Arts and Culture Minister Lulu Xingwana's publication on Friday in the government gazette of a list of 42 geographical name changes which she had approved between July 28 and September 2 this year.

"Some of the approved name changes in Mpumalanga are Belfast to eMakhazeni, Waterval Boven to Emgwenya, Machadodorp to eNtokozweni, and Nelspruit to Mbombela," said department spokesperson Premi Appalraju on Monday.

She said Xingwana's approval followed the recommendation of the South African Geographical Names Council (SAGNC).

Missed opportunity

SAGNC councillor and provincial geographical names committee (PGNC) deputy chairperson Mpyane Ratau-Dlamini said the Lowveld Chamber of Business and Tourism (LCBT), which is opposed to the name change, had missed two consultation meetings.

Previously, the chamber threatened to take legal action against Xingwana should she gazette the name change.

On Monday, the chamber's tourism division chairperson, Sandra Jacobs, said she was still consulting other board members on a way forward now that the name change has been gazetted.

In the minutes of the consultation meeting in February, two chamber officials are recorded as having shown up for the meeting but they left because of "business pressures".

Current names can stay - for now

In the minutes, Ehlanzeni district municipality representative Jackson Siboza said the businessmen obviously "did not think the matter was that important".

He stated in the minutes that 75% of people in 36 wards around Nelspruit had supported the proposed names.

Ratau-Dlamini promised that businesses would not be forced to change their street addresses or remove name boards immediately and that street name signs would remain "for a while".

"People will have three years to change everything," she said.


- African Eye

Good riddance. :cheers:

Look what the cat shat out

The ANC prefers wasting money in changing city names, than in education, for they fear that if they give more education, they'd loose power ( presidency ) in the next elections. For they know that it was mainly the people with lower education that voted on them. People with higher education know that the ANC hasn't enough competences to rule South Africa. Of course their are some members of the ANC with competences, but being them the ruling party, all their ministers should be highly competent.

And what did the Nel family do wrong in South Africa's history for them not to deserve having the city named after them.

Good riddance. :cheers:
^^ Once again, people speaking from other nations telling us what is good for South Africa. Wow, dare us Saffer forumers go into other African nations' forums and telling them what's "good riddance" and what's not, we'd be shot down in a heartbeat. Telling South Africans they're better off spending hundreds of millions on name changes in a recession, rather than spending time, money and energy on service delivery. We understand an all inclusive country and that things need to be adjusted, but we're making the same mistake again! Imposing names without proper consultation, doing the same thing now Xingwana claims the oppressors did then... quite hypocritical if you ask me.

Then, you look at provinces doing this wholesale renaming nonsense... it's not the efficient one's like Gauteng, Western Cape etc. that have the best service delivery track records, it's the provinces with corrupt, inefficient and poorly managed administrations; the Limpopo's and Mpumalanga's. One Saffer forumer put it perfectly, can't remember whom again, "it's glossy governance." Doing things that look like they're doing something on paper; meanwhile not solving or addressing any real issues that are true concerns of the community. Nobody, ever, in their election manifestos goes to the electorate to win votes saying: "We'll change all Afrikaans names!" That won't win any member of the electorate over... they promise jobs, more homes, electrification, better schooling and healthcare... so what does this process do:

Take already inept politicians priorities' from what's important and pumps it into a non-issue that costs whack-loads of cash these poorer provinces don't have.

And 75% of people likes the name in wards outside of Nelspruit. What about the people of Nelspruit... within the article itself, you can see the process is flawed. It's not fair to propose a name change to Pretoria for example, but then say, 75% of people in Johannesburg think it's good... who cares, what about the town in question?

Hungry people can't eat a name.

amen annman.

^^ Once again, people speaking from other nations telling us what is good for South Africa. Wow, dare us Saffer forumers go into other African nations' forums and telling them what's "good riddance" and what's not, we'd be shot down in a heartbeat. Telling South Africans they're better off spending hundreds of millions on name changes in a recession, rather than spending time, money and energy on service delivery. We understand an all inclusive country and that things need to be adjusted, but we're making the same mistake again! Imposing names without proper consultation, doing the same thing now Xingwana claims the oppressors did then... quite hypocritical if you ask me.

Then, you look at provinces doing this wholesale renaming nonsense... it's not the efficient one's like Gauteng, Western Cape etc. that have the best service delivery track records, it's the provinces with corrupt, inefficient and poorly managed administrations; the Limpopo's and Mpumalanga's. One Saffer forumer put it perfectly, can't remember whom again, "it's glossy governance." Doing things that look like they're doing something on paper; meanwhile not solving or addressing any real issues that are true concerns of the community. Nobody, ever, in their election manifestos goes to the electorate to win votes saying: "We'll change all Afrikaans names!" That won't win any member of the electorate over... they promise jobs, more homes, electrification, better schooling and healthcare... so what does this process do:

Take already inept politicians priorities' from what's important and pumps it into a non-issue that costs whack-loads of cash these poorer provinces don't have.

And 75% of people likes the name in wards outside of Nelspruit. What about the people of Nelspruit... within the article itself, you can see the process is flawed. It's not fair to propose a name change to Pretoria for example, but then say, 75% of people in Johannesburg think it's good... who cares, what about the town in question?

Hungry people can't eat a name.

I So agree Annman. By the way, what happend with the street name that was gonna change in Adderly Street in Cape Town?

I So agree Annman. By the way, what happend with the street name that was gonna change in Adderly Street in Cape Town?
Nothing yet, the renaming was scrapped a couple years back after it was realised Pieter Marais was just trying to perform a public relations stunt at major cost to businesses in the CBD and without their input into the matter.

The ANC prefers wasting money in changing city names, than in education, for they fear that if they give more education, they'd loose power ( presidency ) in the next elections. For they know that it was mainly the people with lower education that voted on them. People with higher education know that the ANC hasn't enough competences to rule South Africa. Of course their are some members of the ANC with competences, but being them the ruling party, all their ministers should be highly competent.

And what did the Nel family do wrong in South Africa's history for them not to deserve having the city named after them.

huh?! The ANC spends more than 5% of the country's total GDP on education, WTF are you on about?. . .Annman, the recession? Come on, i know this thread gets your juices flowing but, damn listen to yourself. If there isn't money to finance petty things then, they dont get the financing. How much of the countries GDP does these changes cost? Im sure its insignificant, but the way you and everybody else that follows you, blindly, i might add, are going on you'd swear its all the money the country has. Dont try to justify your stupid rebellion with this recession, cause white people have always been against name changes, even pre-recession. (i know there's a mugabe undertone, in this statement, but hey...)

Whats your hang up with race, jees. im actually gonna ignore you.

huh?! The ANC spends more than 5% of the country's total GDP on education, WTF are you on about?. . .Annman, the recession? Come on, i know this thread gets your juices flowing but, damn listen to yourself. If there isn't money to finance petty things then, they dont get the financing. How much of the countries GDP does these changes cost? Im sure its insignificant, but the way you and everybody else that follows you, blindly, i might add, are going on you'd swear its all the money the country has. Dont try to justify your stupid rebellion with this recession, cause white people have always been against name changes, even pre-recession. (i know there's a mugabe undertone, in this statement, but hey...)

With every post you are just proving to be more of a racist! Anyway, I'm not gonna stoop to that level...

In relation to costs, consider this. R1.2m can feed 4000 people for a year, the changing of 27 street names in Pretoria cost R800m (See article link below), now do the maths (800/1.2)X4000 = 266 667 people fed for a year... Now, if you took the accumulative cost of all the unnecessary names changes in SA just imagine how many people that could feed!

I'm sure those if those 266 667 people were fed for a year they wouldn't give a damn what the street names in Pretoria are.

http://tinyurl.com/yfctp24

huh?! The ANC spends more than 5% of the country's total GDP on education, WTF are you on about?. . .Annman, the recession? Come on, i know this thread gets your juices flowing but, damn listen to yourself. If there isn't money to finance petty things then, they dont get the financing. How much of the countries GDP does these changes cost? Im sure its insignificant, but the way you and everybody else that follows you, blindly, i might add, are going on you'd swear its all the money the country has. Dont try to justify your stupid rebellion with this recession, cause white people have always been against name changes, even pre-recession. (i know there's a mugabe undertone, in this statement, but hey...)

I tell you what...let's take the millions these name changes will cost, go to the *black* people who are next-in-line for a new government-built house and ask them what they think should be done with the money. Better yet - let's go to those at the very bottom of the list and ask them.

Do not dare try to turn this into a race thing, as I won't hesitate to report you. It's amazing how when people on this forum have nothing logical to argue they resort to insults/racial bickering. Grow up and climb off of your high horse.

This is not a big deal, but India changed its name Bombay is now Mumbai, Calcutta is Kolkatta, they believed it was time to shift away from the colonial past. Time and everything moves on!!

wow, this has really escalated.. on the topic of name changes, why did the spelling of umtata change to mthatha? the names are pronounced the same yet the spelling and signage was changed, odd? was it incorrectly spelled in the transkei days?

pls dont be baited by kwame, he or she is just out to troll..

^^Pronounciation is not the same.The story is that the name was Anglicized to accomodate the English speakers.I think its is really stupid,how hard can it be to omit the "u"?Anyhow its all rather a blur and not easy to explain/comprehend if you are a non-Xhosa speaker.Its not an extreme change as the name is still a testament to the river that runs through the "city",now it just has a Xhosa spelling as the name itself is Xhosa.Mthatha = mthathi = the taker.

huh?! The ANC spends more than 5% of the country's total GDP on education, WTF are you on about?. . .Annman, the recession? Come on, i know this thread gets your juices flowing but, damn listen to yourself. If there isn't money to finance petty things then, they dont get the financing. How much of the countries GDP does these changes cost? Im sure its insignificant, but the way you and everybody else that follows you, blindly, i might add, are going on you'd swear its all the money the country has. Dont try to justify your stupid rebellion with this recession, cause white people have always been against name changes, even pre-recession. (i know there's a mugabe undertone, in this statement, but hey...)

Once again its the RACIST yelling racism ....

Huh!? Let me start firstly by apologizing to anyone who, mistakenly took what i said as being a racist comment. But i really dont understand how what i said has a racist connotation to it. Is it not MAINLY white south african's, who have problems with name changes? Citing that the current goverment is trying to remove what ever else remains white! And by stating this, IM RACIST? How's this work? Help me out! Would a white forummer stating that its black people who barricade roads and burn tires, be racist? Are we not suppose to mention people of different races in our posts? I really dont get how this works! Annman is this the integration, you were talking about? From supposedly non-racist south africans. I AM NOT A RACIST!!! I love Einstein, so how can i be? Lol. Let me end this by stating again that, I AM NOT RACIST.

^^Pronounciation is not the same.The story is that the name was Anglicized to accomodate the English speakers.I think its is really stupid,how hard can it be to omit the "u"?Anyhow its all rather a blur and not easy to explain/comprehend if you are a non-Xhosa speaker.Its not an extreme change as the name is still a testament to the river that runs through the "city",now it just has a Xhosa spelling as the name itself is Xhosa.Mthatha = mthathi = the taker.

^^ thanks for the info, was puzzled when i saw it the first time.

^^ It's not about "percentage GDP" to change names, as was said earlier, it's about it costing R800million to change 27 street names in PTA. It's about where the priorities lie. Thus, in a recession, and I'll repeat it again, in the RECESSION, your priorities should be more stringent. And also, that is just the cost, it doesn't account for the human cost: taking politician's eyes off the real issues and having them administrate name changes, not administrating communities, service provision and infrastructure.

But hey, I'm sure the Mpumalanga politicians didn't notify the masses they were apparently "consulting" with, that this is scenario: We have a pot of R1.5billion, would you like us to change a bunch of names, or would you like the following around the province: 10 new schools, 2 new hospitals, 4 new basic-health clinics, 5 more communities will get paved roads, 3 new police stations and 5000 more homes will get sanitation services.

Why don't the politicians put it that way? Oh wait, I know, because they then know what the people will choose!

I say again to the one who keeps screaming my name in this thread and insulted my intellect earlier: Can you eat a name? Does a name give you basic services? Does a name put your kid through school?

If you cannot truthfully answer the aforementioned question then your priorities are the same as the provincial administrations involved: Glossy Governance taking the fore, addressing real and deep issues is on the back-burner; we'd rather spend tons erasing the past, rather than spending m/billions providing for the future.

PS. It's not about the name, I have no qualms with Mbombela; it's about would I rather drive on unpotholed roads, see children going to school, see communities no longer protesting due to new services or would I rather see a different name on a map and signboard... hmmm...

And if anyone thinks I don't get what true empowerment is about, then the joke may just be on you. I'm not the brainchild and designer of the largest land restitution and agro-village in SA's history for nothing. I do not have close ties to Land Affairs, the ANC local government and Zille's provincial administration for nothing. Empowerment is about a previously disadvantaged child having an opportunity to go into any career he/she wants, empowerment is about making sure the retiree of colour is secure in his/her house and will age with dignity, empowerment is about business opportunities for those who had none, empowerment is about building safe and secure communities for people who previously owned nothing, empowerment is about one thing: Themba, Sipho, Jacoba, Ashwell, Fatima, Thandi being able to dream anything... and do it!

Empowerment is not about a name... it's about so much more. When Nelspruit/Mbombela has a huge middle class representing all races with proper integration, that is rectifying the past. When Nelspruit becomes Mbombela, all we did was gloss over the past. That's the point: PRIORITIES!

huh?! The ANC spends more than 5% of the country's total GDP on education, WTF are you on about?. . .Annman, the recession? Come on, i know this thread gets your juices flowing but, damn listen to yourself. If there isn't money to finance petty things then, they dont get the financing. How much of the countries GDP does these changes cost? Im sure its insignificant, but the way you and everybody else that follows you, blindly, i might add, are going on you'd swear its all the money the country has. Dont try to justify your stupid rebellion with this recession, cause white people have always been against name changes, even pre-recession. (i know there's a mugabe undertone, in this statement, but hey...)

I agree, annman is wrong as are many conservative whites, who make excuses for why colonial names must remain the same. The fact that SA is in a recession caused mainly by corrupted Western powers whose own economic philosophies about capitalism have failed dismally, should be further reason to persevere with the name changes and other transformative changes to reflect SA's African reality. Besides name changes is an issue of a nation's identity which has no price tag. South Africa is an African country where the majority, 80% of the people are African (whites make up only about 8% of the people). It has a democratic government under the ANC unlike before 1994 when we had a racist white minority government. But in any event it makes no sense to argue about such petty things as names of cities and towns when you are outnumbered 10 to one.

The name changes in Mpumalanga province are needed as restitution for the injustices committed under apartheid colonialism and to recognize the true identity of the people. The ANC won the Mpumalanga provincial election with 85% of the vote so there is no question that the vast majority of people support these name changes as a true reflection of themselves

^^ It's not about "percentage GDP" to change names, as was said earlier, it's about it costing R800million to change 27 street names in PTA. It's about where the priorities lie. Thus, in a recession, and I'll repeat it again, in the RECESSION, your priorities should be more stringent. And also, that is just the cost, it doesn't account for the human cost: taking politician's eyes off the real issues and having them administrate name changes, not administrating communities, service provision and infrastructure.

But hey, I'm sure the Mpumalanga politicians didn't notify the masses they were apparently "consulting" with, that this is scenario: We have a pot of R1.5billion, would you like us to change a bunch of names, or would you like the following around the province: 10 new schools, 2 new hospitals, 4 new basic-health clinics, 5 more communities will get paved roads, 3 new police stations and 5000 more homes will get sanitation services.

Why don't the politicians put it that way? Oh wait, I know, because they then know what the people will choose!

I say again to the one who keeps screaming my name in this thread and insulted my intellect earlier: Can you eat a name? Does a name give you basic services? Does a name put your kid through school?

If you cannot truthfully answer the aforementioned question then your priorities are the same as the provincial administrations involved: Glossy Governance taking the fore, addressing real and deep issues is on the back-burner; we'd rather spend tons erasing the past, rather than spending m/billions providing for the future.

PS. It's not about the name, I have no qualms with Mbombela; it's about would I rather drive on unpotholed roads, see children going to school, see communities no longer protesting due to new services or would I rather see a different name on a map and signboard... hmmm...

And if any thinks I don't get what true empowerment is about, then the joke may just be on you. I'm not the brainchild and designer of the largest land restitution and agro-village in SA's history for nothing. I do not have close ties to Land Affairs, the ANC local government and Zille's provincial administration for nothing. Empowerment is about a previously disadvantaged child having an opportunity to go into any career he/she wants, empowerment is about making sure the retiree of colour is secure in his/her house and will age with dignity, empowerment is about business opportunities for those who had none, empowerment is about building safe and secure communities for people who previously owned nothing, empowerment is about one thing: Themba, Sipho, Jacoba, Ashwell, Fatima, Thandi being able to dream anything... and do it!

Empowerment is not about a name... it's about so much more.

Sorry but Pretoria is now Tshwane and will never be Pretoria again. Black people are not any more currupt than white people. We are fully capable of making decisions for ourselves. SA is an independent country since 1994 and we are sovereign. In any event the UN supports the ANC government's name changes as the UN discourages duplicate names that are not original to the country.

^^ You're back! Tshwane is the municipality's name. See High Court judgment from last year, or do we not respect our judiciary and their decisions? The name of the city is still on ice for now. So, just because someone is in the minority they have NO say... wow, you're in the wrong country, democracy is about listening to everyone, but majority has the most say, not the majority has the only say. I'd suggest North Korea may be a nice option for you. A government to suit your taste. :)

Thing is, the towns population is around 90% afrikaans. Do the research. This name change is only going to do more harm than good, any sane person can see that. There are names in sa that have negative connotations and must be changed. Yes im white and i agree with certain name changes. wow imagine that. But not right now. There are things that are more important than changing unnecessary names that are going to cause alot more tension that is just not needed in this country. Especially in a province like Mpumalanga. Make things better in the municipality, make sure the towns population vote on the name and make sure the gains outweigh the costs. done.

What's sad is, he/she turned an argument about local government priorities into a racial argument. Nobody brought in race until now... What's also sad is in the same province in Standerton, people are protesting about lack of service delivery, but since he/she thinks there's "no price tag" on name changes, if he/she were the mayor of Standerton; the mayor would change the name of Standerton at any cost, regardless of the needs in communities, he/she cares more about his/her ideologies more than the needs of the poor.

And I've been labeled the white conservative... :ohno: So much for a nation that tries to be colourblind when you have people like that around.

The current ANC government would likely implement new names of South Africa's cities. Currently, the names of most towns in Limpopo and Mpumalanga, have been changed to reflect the demograhic realities in SA. This is what one would likely see happen over the next 5 to 10 years.

Cities in SA:

Johannesburg - eGoli
Cape Town - iKapa
Durban - eThekwini
Pretoria - Tshwane
East Rand - Ekhurhuleni
Port Elizabeth - iBhayi
East London - Emonti
Bloemfontein - Mangaung
Pietermaritzburg - Msunduzi
Kimberley - Sol Plaatje
Richards Bay - uMhlathuze
Nelspruit - Mbombela
Pietersburg - Polokwane

Towns in Western Cape province:

Paarl - Mbekweni
Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba
Wellington - Cochoqua
Tulbagh- Hawequa
Clamwilliam - Oedasoa
Robertson - Goringhaicona
George - Outeniqua
Mossel Bay - Gouriqua
Heidelberg - Hessequa
Oudtshoorn - Attaqua
Hermanus - Tamaqua
Swellendam - Ghanoqua
Bredasdorp - Chainouqua
Caledon - Gouga
Plettenberg Bay - Bitou
Knysna - Xthuys Xna
Vredendal - Matzikama
Malmesbury - Gorachouqua
Saldanha Bay - Khoina
Beaufort West - KwaMandlekosi

Province name changes:

Eastern Cape - KwaNtu
Western Cape - iKapa
Northern Cape - Namaqua
North West - Mahikeng
Free State - Gariep
KwaZulu/Natal - KwaZulu

^^ You're back! Tshwane is the municipality's name. See High Court judgment from last year, or do we not respect our judiciary and their decisions? The name of the city is still on ice for now. So, just because someone is in the minority they have NO say... wow, you're in the wrong country, democracy is about listening to everyone, but majority has the most say, not the majority has the only say. I'd suggest North Korea may be a nice option for you. A government to suit your taste. :)

Aside from the legal formalities of a judicial system that is untransformed and incompatible with the new political dispensation since 1994, in the end the name Tshwane will replace Pretoria for good after the litigation about it is over. I think that people must accept the will of the majority which wants transformative change and no longer wants the name Pretoria to remain.

What's sad is, he/she turned an argument about local government priorities into a racial argument. Nobody brought in race until now... What's also sad is in the same province in Standerton, people are protesting about lack of service delivery, but since he/she thinks there's "no price tag" on name changes, if he/she were the mayor of Standerton; the mayor would change the name of Standerton at any cost, regardless of the needs in communities, he/she cares more about his/her ideologies more than the needs of the poor.

And I've been labeled the white conservative... :ohno: So much for a nation that tries to be colourblind when you have people like that around.

You are consumed in the present day. Not all black people are corrupt and the ANC political structures in the Lekwa municipality are far more than one errant mayor who will be replaced with a capable one.

^^ Who said anything about black people being corrupt? Dont reply if you dont get what hes saying. Over this argument now, too much ignorance.

You are consumed in the present day. Not all black people are corrupt and the ANC political structures in the Lekwa municipality are far more than one errant mayor who will be replaced with a capable one.
You debate like a 12-year-old, address none of the issues made and create you're own nebulous rhetoric to replace it. You're a liability. As for your name suggestion," iKapa!" Let's screw the Coloureds who are in the majority and the only "completely locally created race" and benefit those who've lived in the Cape for only the last 30 years, at the same time destroying all the marketing we've done overseas and compromise the internationally recognised name-brand of Cape Town for your ideals. You're logic is more than questionable and "democratic" means less than orthodox.

And FYI: It's already iKapa; as it is Cape Town in English, Kaapstad in Afrikaans, Cuidad del Cabo in Spanish and Kapstaden in Swedish!

You debate like a 12-year-old, address none of the issues made and create you're own nebulous rhetoric to replace it. You're a liability. As for your name suggestion," iKapa!" Let's screw the Coloureds who are in the majority and the only "completely locally created race" and benefit those who've lived in the Cape for only the last 30 years, at the same time destroying all the marketing we've done overseas and compromise the internationally recognised name-brand of Cape Town for your ideals. You're logic is more than questionable and "democratic" means less than orthodox.

And FYI: It's already iKapa; as it is Cape Town in English, Kaapstad in Afrikaans, Cuidad del Cabo in Spanish and Kapstaden in Swedish!

Actually there is an alternative name for Cape Town which I like as it is what the Khoi named Table Mountain before the white settlers arrived in 1652:

Hoerikwaggo

By the way the so called "coloured" people are Khoi as they "descended" from them too. Money is not the only thing that matters with regards to our national, regional and local identities. Again we as South Africans are not mere commodities that can be traded at a price determined by our Western world masters. We can change the name of Cape Town as well as we can other WC towns to reflect the majority Khoi indigenous group in the Western Cape. We can rename the Western Cape province as iKapa and rename Cape Town as Hoerikwaggo or iKapa City.

Actually there is an alternative name for Cape Town which I like as it is what the Khoi named Table Mountain before the white settlers arrived in 1652:

Hoerikwaggo

By the way the so called "coloured" people are Khoi as they "descended" from them too. Money is not the only thing that matters with regards to our national, regional and local identities. Again we as South Africans are not mere commodities that can be traded at a price determined by our Western world masters. We can change the name of Cape Town as well as we can other WC towns to reflect the majority Khoi indigenous group in the Western Cape. We can rename the Western Cape province as iKapa and rename Cape Town as Hoerikwaggo or iKapa City.

Okay, let's argue in your frame of mind... have you consulted the coloured people as to whether they're more Khoisan or more Afrikaans? Have you asked to majority of the Western Cape population, that is 80% Afrikaans as to whether iKapa is representative of them? Have you done studies as to what the marketing, foreign investment and touristic impact is of changing Cape Town's name to Hoerikwaggo (whick FYI refers to the Khoi name of Table Mountain, not the settlement, Cape Town; It's Cape Town, not Table Mountain City)?

You may not be a commodity, but most of us just want to be successful and don't care about a name as long as we're fed, sheltered and put our kids through good schools. Whatever name brings us the most success, we'll keep it.

Still, you fail to answer my previous questions... I'm waiting. Address the human resource input, capital expenditure and marketing loss that occurs when names are changed? Address the diversion of attention of local politicians to renaming versus provincial governance? Address the priority structures of local governments? Address service delivery protests versus renaming?

And... address as to why, when I pointed out that iKapa is Cape Town in Xhosa, did you now choose the name Hoerrikwaggo? Are you not convicted in your opinions?

Die kapenaar you have lost your grasp of reality . your so crazy its funny . you an kwazi are so colour obsessed its sad. an kwazi people obsessed with the colour of peoples skin are usually racists , stating another race is this and that is the mark of a racist . racism is a illness and those are all symptoms. liking einstein says nothing . hes been dead for years and hes a jew not european. many racist whites like obama or nelson mandela or beyonce . doesnt make them any less racist

DieKapenaar wtf are you drinking? Changing those names will make south africa lose its uniqueness, all you want is all south african city names to be changed to african, south africa is unique because of its diversity, you have to let bygones be bygones at sometime in life, american cities name are combination of english, spanish, french, indian to represent its diversity.

DieKapenaar wtf are you drinking? Changing those names will make south africa lose its uniqueness, all you want is all south african city names to be changed to african, south africa is unique because of its diversity, you have to let bygones be bygones at sometime in life, american cities name are combination of english, spanish, french, indian to represent its diversity.
Merci, Thanks, Dankie, Tack, Enkosi! :applause: South Africa is amazing because everything is represented, just like America is the Superpower of the world with names like, Seattle and Atlanta (Amerindian), Los Angeles and Las Vegas (Spanish) and New York and Boston (English); so South Africa can be a shining beacon for inclusive diversity representing all who live in within her borders, from Polokwane to Cape Town, from Mafikeng to Bloemfontein, from Mpumalanga to KwaZulu-Natal.

America didn't change all her names after the bloody War of Independence to wipe British history off their map, the majority "whites" in America didn't change Amerindian names to satisfy their linguistic preferences, the primarily Anglo Americans didn't alter the cities of the Western States to suit themselves. It was a respect for history and a respect for a diverse America that kept all flavours of their continent represented, regardless of French-Creole, Spanish, English or Amerindian names.

And the same thing should apply here, South Africa's immigrant history is just as old as America's. Just as the USA is a melting pot, so are we. Just as nobody questions Irish-Americans for being settled in Massachusetts and New Hampshire since the 1880's, so shy should there be negativity around Afrikaners being in Stellenbosch since the late 1600's? Goodness, if we used that logic, Sydney Australia would not be allowed to exist. Johannesburg (a new city by SA standards) is older than Seattle... scary, hey!

The current ANC government would likely implement new names of South Africa's cities. Currently, the names of most towns in Limpopo and Mpumalanga, have been changed to reflect the demograhic realities in SA. This is what one would likely see happen over the next 5 to 10 years.

Cities in SA:

Johannesburg - eGoli
Cape Town - iKapa
Durban - eThekwini
Pretoria - Tshwane
East Rand - Ekhurhuleni
Port Elizabeth - iBhayi
East London - Emonti
Bloemfontein - Mangaung
Pietermaritzburg - Msunduzi
Kimberley - Sol Plaatje
Richards Bay - uMhlathuze
Nelspruit - Mbombela
Pietersburg - Polokwane

Towns in Western Cape province:

Paarl - Mbekweni
Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba
Wellington - Cochoqua
Tulbagh- Hawequa
Clamwilliam - Oedasoa
Robertson - Goringhaicona
George - Outeniqua
Mossel Bay - Gouriqua
Heidelberg - Hessequa
Oudtshoorn - Attaqua
Hermanus - Tamaqua
Swellendam - Ghanoqua
Bredasdorp - Chainouqua
Caledon - Gouga
Plettenberg Bay - Bitou
Knysna - Xthuys Xna
Vredendal - Matzikama
Malmesbury - Gorachouqua
Saldanha Bay - Khoina
Beaufort West - KwaMandlekosi

Province name changes:

Eastern Cape - KwaNtu
Western Cape - iKapa
Northern Cape - Namaqua
North West - Mahikeng
Free State - Gariep
KwaZulu/Natal - KwaZulu

^^ We've seen it... thanks, bar your addition of one or two towns, thanks unofficial GNC of South Africa. PS. Did you know Johannesburg is the older name and eGoli the newer one. Hint... think about why Johannesburg was founded... think about a mineral in the Witwatersrand reef. Why should people from Grikwaland in eastern Northern Cape and Gordonia in the far north be subjected to the name Namaqua, as given geographically to the western coast from Namibia to Vrendendal? Why should Stellenbosch be called Zwelenthemba? The original inhabitants where not Xhosa? Plus, Zwelenthemba is the township in Worcester, not Stellenbosch, that one is called Kyamandi? Same goes for Paarl, what a political name that is, meaning "Pearl" and referring to Paarl Rock in wet weather... Mbekweni, so where were the Xhosa when the Malays, Dutch and Khoi were settled in the Berg River Valley?


Oh, and answer my other questions on the previous page to prove your worth as a debater and bright mind. Especially those questions regarding Cape Town as Hoerrikwaggo and Western Cape as iKapa.

Not worth it annman, just another bitter person with nothing of any worth to say. we'll see though...

Merci, Thanks, Dankie, Tack, Enkosi! :applause: South Africa is amazing because everything is represented, just like America is the Superpower of the world with names like, Seattle and Atlanta (Amerindian), Los Angeles and Las Vegas (Spanish) and New York and Boston (English); so South Africa can be a shining beacon for inclusive diversity representing all who live in within her borders, from Polokwane to Cape Town, from Mafikeng to Bloemfontein, from Mpumalanga to KwaZulu-Natal.

America didn't change all her names after the bloody War of Independence to wipe British history off their map, the majority "whites" in America didn't change Amerindian names to satisfy their linguistic preferences, the primarily Anglo Americans didn't alter the cities of the Western States to suit themselves. It was a respect for history and a respect for a diverse America that kept all flavours of their continent represented, regardless of French-Creole, Spanish, English or Amerindian names.

And the same thing should apply here, South Africa's immigrant history is just as old as America's. Just as the USA is a melting pot, so are we. Just as nobody questions Irish-Americans for being settled in Massachusetts and New Hampshire since the 1880's, so shy should there be negativity around Afrikaners being in Stellenbosch since the late 1600's? Goodness, if we used that logic, Sydney Australia would not be allowed to exist. Johannesburg (a new city by SA standards) is older than Seattle... scary, hey!

Thankfully SA is not the USA which is a fading and declining power in the world.

DieKape move on dude, you are being ignorant now!

^^ We've seen it... thanks, bar your addition of one or two towns, thanks unofficial GNC of South Africa. PS. Did you know Johannesburg is the older name and eGoli the newer one. Hint... think about why Johannesburg was founded... think about a mineral in the Witwatersrand reef. Why should people from Grikwaland in eastern Northern Cape and Gordonia in the far north be subjected to the name Namaqua, as given geographically to the western coast from Namibia to Vrendendal? Why should Stellenbosch be called Zwelenthemba? The original inhabitants where not Xhosa? Plus, Zwelenthemba is the township in Worcester, not Stellenbosch, that one is called Kyamandi? Same goes for Paarl, what a political name that is, meaning "Pearl" and referring to Paarl Rock in wet weather... Mbekweni, so where were the Xhosa when the Malays, Dutch and Khoi were settled in the Berg River Valley?


Oh, and answer my other questions on the previous page to prove your worth as a debater and bright mind. Especially those questions regarding Cape Town as Hoerrikwaggo and Western Cape as iKapa.
Thanks for your help. I changed the list on page 5 as Kayamandi is in Stellenbosch:


Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba

By the way the so called coloured people or what I should call the new Khoi have descended from Xhosa too so the Xhosa are part of the Khoi ethnic fabric as well.

Ethnic groups in Western Cape:

Khoi - 45%
Xhosa - 36%
European - 15%
Asian - 4%

So Africans make up 81% of the racial groups in the Western Cape:

African - 81%
European - 15%
Asian - 4%

Thanks for your help. I changed the list on page 5 as Kayamandi is in Stellenbosch:


Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba

By the way the so called coloured people or what I should call the new Khoi have descended from Xhosa too so the Xhosa are part of the Khoi ethnic fabric as well.

You have not addressed my questions? What about all the governance issues? What about international marketability? What about the needs of the local majority and their identity? What about political priorities? What about service delivery capacity versus name changes? ANSWER the questions in hand!

PS. Tell a Coloured he's Xhosa!!! You'll get knifed! You obviously have no foot on the ground in the Western Cape.

Why are Coloureds more African than Whites? Being created out of Malays, Khoi, White and some others in the 1600's to 1700's make them more African than White's who were here since 1652? Are you fascist? Whites here are not "European" you nut-case, just as Americans aren't Irish, English or French. Pale peoples have been in SA longer than they've been in Australia, USA, Canada or NZ... you're becoming insulting!!! Tell an Aussie he's a Brit!

What do the coloured peoples say? And no, they haven't: The Xhosa only met the populations of the Cape post 1830. The Cape was in the western history books from 1652 as a settlement. More time lapsed prior to Xhosa influence than post Xhosa influence; there was only a major migration from the Eastern Cape to the Western Cape post 1960. Plus, ask the coloured peoples (or new-Khoi as you put it) if they're their own, independent section of Afrikaner-ethnicity or are they more Xhosa?

You use fuzzy logic to prove your illogical logic. By lumping stats together to create the picture you want to further your agenda without any relevance in reality.

SABC News


Nelspruit name change to be effected after 2010 World Cup
October 21 2009, 7:20:00

The capital of Mpumalanga, Nelspruit, will not change to its new name Mbombela until after the 2010 soccer World Cup. Nelspruit is one of the host cities of the World Cup and City Manager Ronnie Moyo says there will be confusion if the city is also referred to as Mbombela during the soccer tournament.

Arts and Culture Minister Lulu Xingwana announced the name change in Friday's Government Gazette. Last week the Democratic Alliance (DA) in Mpumalanga criticised Xingwana's approval of 42 name changes which appeared in the Gazette, of which 29 of the 42 name changes are in Mpumalanga.

Towns with new names include Belfast, Machadodorp, Waterval Boven and Nelspruit. DA leader in Mpumalanga Anthony Benadie said his party firmly believes that the whole exercise was a waste of money. Benadie said: "The silly part of it is that the town of Belfast is now called Emakhazeni, and that the entire municipality including three other geographical towns is also called Emakhazeni, so it is going to cause a lot of confusion.”

Benadie also lamented that it was puzzling that after years of no action in the province, the ruling African National Congress decided on name changes to create an illusion of service delivery.

This is confusing. The ANC should just begin the name changes including Mbombela on January 1st, 2010 and be done with it.

Not surprised the DA is opposed to the name changes as they are becoming irrelevant to the body politic of SA. This is political suicide on their part as they only got 7% of the provincial vote in Mpumalanga.

^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have not addressed my questions? What about all the governance issues? What about international marketability? What about the needs of the local majority and their identity? What about political priorities? What about service delivery capacity versus name changes? ANSWER the questions in hand!

PS. Tell a Coloured he's Xhosa!!! You'll get knifed! You obviously have no foot on the ground in the Western Cape.

Why are Coloureds more African than Whites? Being created out of Malays, Khoi, White and some others in the 1600's to 1700's make them more African than White's who were here since 1652? Are you fascist? Whites here are not "European" you nut-case, just as Americans aren't Irish, English or French. Pale peoples have been in SA longer than they've been in Australia, USA, Canada or NZ... you're becoming insulting!!! Tell an Aussie he's a Brit!

What do the coloured peoples say? And no, they haven't: The Xhosa only met the populations of the Cape post 1830. The Cape was in the western history books from 1652 as a settlement. More time lapsed prior to Xhosa influence than post Xhosa influence; there was only a major migration from the Eastern Cape to the Western Cape post 1960. Plus, ask the coloured peoples (or new-Khoi as you put it) if they're their own, independent section of Afrikaner-ethnicity or are they more Xhosa?

You use fuzzy logic to prove your illogical logic. By lumping stats together to create the picture you want to further your agenda without any relevance in reality.

But you fail to realize that the Xhosa set foot in SA in the 2nd century AD after the Khoi and San arrived 10,000 years ago so the Khoi and the Xhosa have had time to intermingle over the centuries particularly in the Northern Cape and Eastern Cape.

LOLOLOLOLOL oh.my.

But you fail to realize that the Xhosa set foot in SA in the 2nd century AD after the Khoi and San arrived 10,000 years ago so the Khoi and the Xhosa have had time to intermingle over the centuries particularly in the Northern Cape and Eastern Cape.

^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: My lack of logic knows now bounds! I am, the IQ that begins with "," hear me roar in all my opinionated, fictitious fury! Questions, I shall answer none; debate, I shall not. Make my own arguments out of thin air, I will... David Copperfield of rebuttal I am! Xhosa's in the desert of the NC, next episode, Arabs in the Arctic.

Diekape u are being the laughing stock of the SA forum with your backward thinking mentality.

They should change it to some english name. Thses african and dutch names got people tripping over their tongues. They should name it kingston or portmore hills.

Why doesn't the ANC simply buy a billion of bulldozers and destroy South Africa's cities, so that there remains no vestiges of the Apartheid.:ohno::nuts::ohno: And now that they at it, postpone the World Cup for after they change all these names, for all the marketing used in the world cup to promote South africa will go under the drain.:bash:

Why doesn't the ANC simply buy a billion of bulldozers and destroy South Africa's cities, so that there remains no vestiges of the Apartheid.:ohno::nuts::ohno: And now that they at it, postpone the World Cup for after they change all these names, for all the marketing used in the world cup to promote South africa will go under the drain.:bash:

I would not go that far. We just need to accept that the issue of name changes like the issue of land reform and the issue of wealth ownership in the hands of a small minority are issues that the ANC cannot ignore any longer. If they do then we would see a situation here that resembles what happened in Zimbabwe. These are difficult issues that cannot be confined to fiscal budgetary processes but will be costly in the short to medium term but in the long term, maybe 20 years, the country would be better off if we would simply address these issues that were inherited from the apartheid regime.

Come on guys - some name changing is inevitable, and I might add also necessary to help purge this nation fom a lopsided "history". Very few countries have been through the kind of history where the right to name places was left to so few, on behalf of so many! Black or indegenous S.Africans have never really been able to contribute, let alone debate the naming of any town/city or village apart from townships or homeland dwelling. Now that doesn't mean that I agree with political bulldozing by a Xhosa elite or removing such inocuous names like Paarl. But , where people have ligitimately called towns by another name, or where a town's name and/or history is offensive, let change happen. Fair's fair.

Die_Kapenaar: How will you address the issue of Soweto? South West Townships is clearly an issue from inherited the apartheid regime, as you would call it.

Die_Kapenaar: How will you address the issue of Soweto? South West Townships is clearly an issue from inherited the apartheid regime, as you would call it.

It should be renamed as it is not an indigenous African name.

Why have you not mentioned it before? Perhaps because it sound indigenous enough to the uninformed.
How many Sowetans do you think would want to change the name?

It would be interesting to see the results of a naming referendum in Soweto. On the one side, you'll have the people who want the scars of the past erased; on the other hand, you'll have the people who want the scars worn as badges of honour, as reminders of the less savoury moments in history. Of course, as said above, the majority of the people will have a list of suggestions as long as your arm for things they'd rather see fixed first.

Canada has had a few places change names, mainly in Quebec (not surprising). The town of Hull, the Quebec section of the capital area, was amalgamated with surrounding municipalities and renamed Gatineau. When the Inuit-led territory of Nunavut was created, the town of Frobisher Bay was made the territorial capital of Iqaluit. Since it wasn't on many maps, most people didn't notice. The English-speaking areas of Canada haven't had as many problems with name changes because a lot of the major cities (like Ottawa, Toronto, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg) already have names adapted from aboriginal words or phrases.

Renaming some of the smaller towns will be easy, since they won't be on many maps distributed internationally. Renaming the bigger towns will be a bit more difficult and unpopular. India can't always be used as an example because a lot of the more internationally significant names didn't change much (Kolkata isn't much different from Calcutta, Kanpur from Cawnpore, etc.). Cape Town isn't going to change to a native African language very easily.

The current ANC government would likely implement new names of South Africa's cities. Currently, the names of most towns in Limpopo and Mpumalanga, have been changed to reflect the demograhic realities in SA. This is what one would likely see happen over the next 5 to 10 years.

Cities in SA:

Johannesburg - eGoli
Cape Town - iKapa
Durban - eThekwini
Pretoria - Tshwane
East Rand - Ekhurhuleni
Port Elizabeth - iBhayi
East London - Emonti
Bloemfontein - Mangaung
Pietermaritzburg - Msunduzi
Kimberley - Sol Plaatje
Richards Bay - uMhlathuze
Nelspruit - Mbombela
Pietersburg - Polokwane

Towns in Western Cape province:

Paarl - Mbekweni
Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba
Wellington - Cochoqua
Tulbagh- Hawequa
Clamwilliam - Oedasoa
Robertson - Goringhaicona
George - Outeniqua
Mossel Bay - Gouriqua
Heidelberg - Hessequa
Oudtshoorn - Attaqua
Hermanus - Tamaqua
Swellendam - Ghanoqua
Bredasdorp - Chainouqua
Caledon - Gouga
Plettenberg Bay - Bitou
Knysna - Xthuys Xna
Vredendal - Matzikama
Malmesbury - Gorachouqua
Saldanha Bay - Khoina
Beaufort West - KwaMandlekosi

Province name changes:

Eastern Cape - KwaNtu
Western Cape - iKapa
Northern Cape - Namaqua
North West - Mahikeng
Free State - Gariep
KwaZulu/Natal - KwaZulu

:rofl: I'm not South African, but after reading this I don'd belive Die Kapenaar is either. Anyway if we renaming Nelspruit to Mbombela my proposal is to find an african name for Die Kapenaar :lol: Renaming is good! :D

:jk:

Anyway if we renaming Nelspruit to Mbombela my proposal is to find an african name for Die Kapenaar :lol: Renaming is good! :D
:jk:
:lol: Good point... I propose:
Incinci Inkwenkwe
:jk: I digress, I digress... anyways, it's not nice to call people names. But this thread is dead in any case, just as the Dalai Lhama couldn't argue with Chairman Mao, so we cannot argue... This thread has "Chinese Cultural Revolution" written all over it now. It's really no longer a debate, it's corrupted and dead.

Incinci Inkwenkwe

:lol::lol::lol::rofl:
Spot on, as usual!

I see Sutcliff fever has spreaded...

Die kapenaar - ID - ANC - Julius malema the de-evolution is complete . bwuahahaha

DieKapenar, you got your profile all wrong, your Username is wrong, your location should be iKapa City or Table Mountain. Even the language you speek is wrong, for it surely must be an apartheid heritage, afterall.

The current ANC government would likely implement new names of South Africa's cities. Currently, the names of most towns in Limpopo and Mpumalanga, have been changed to reflect the demograhic realities in SA. This is what one would likely see happen over the next 5 to 10 years.

Cities in SA:

Johannesburg - eGoli
Cape Town - iKapa
Durban - eThekwini
Pretoria - Tshwane
East Rand - Ekhurhuleni
Port Elizabeth - iBhayi
East London - Emonti
Bloemfontein - Mangaung
Pietermaritzburg - Msunduzi
Kimberley - Sol Plaatje
Richards Bay - uMhlathuze
Nelspruit - Mbombela
Pietersburg - Polokwane

Towns in Western Cape province:

Paarl - Mbekweni
Stellenbosch - Kayamandi
Worcester - Zwelethemba
Wellington - Cochoqua
Tulbagh- Hawequa
Clamwilliam - Oedasoa
Robertson - Goringhaicona
George - Outeniqua
Mossel Bay - Gouriqua
Heidelberg - Hessequa
Oudtshoorn - Attaqua
Hermanus - Tamaqua
Swellendam - Ghanoqua
Bredasdorp - Chainouqua
Caledon - Gouga
Plettenberg Bay - Bitou
Knysna - Xthuys Xna
Vredendal - Matzikama
Malmesbury - Gorachouqua
Saldanha Bay - Khoina
Beaufort West - KwaMandlekosi

Province name changes:

Eastern Cape - KwaNtu
Western Cape - iKapa
Northern Cape - Namaqua
North West - Mahikeng
Free State - Gariep
KwaZulu/Natal - KwaZulu

Die Kapenaar, you can change as many names as you wish, but you cannot change the truth. Your fascination with numbers and majorities is confusing you into thinking you are 'the' authority. Do not be tempted to follow the masses as they are more uninformed than you are and they are voting their hatred instead of their desires. All that these numbers goes to prove, is that a lot of people can make the same foolish errors at the same time. The good news is that it is not too late to change your mind. :)

Maybe if the ANC used the money to help the people dying of hunger and poor medical situations, everybody and this country would be happy with all the name changing... They are concentrating so much on changing stuff, that they are forgetting about their own people...

Last week in the Lowvelder I read of 2 incidence's:

1. The riots at the stadium, so that more schools can be built.
2. A gentlemen who died, because of no space in the local government hospital.

Now the costs of building new schools and a new hospital (which is more needed) is going to come to over R 100 million.

I don't understand where the governments priorities are? The people in the area are crying for help and all they can think of is changing a name of a town so that is can sound more Bantu!

What about education for the next generation and peoples lives???

^^ That's what I've been trying to say all along. People are not protesting that their town has an English or Afrikaans name, they protest for services, schools, medical care, houses. The priorities, although on paper, seem pro-African, are intrinsically and practically anti-poor. :ohno:

Mbombela - More than 600 businesses in Mpumalanga are seeking legal advice on how to challenge what is believed to have been a flawed name change process, following the renaming of Nelspruit to Mbombela.


More on News 24...http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/e4f376da2e1d4f268443f71b5ea6bda5/27-10-2009-12-07/Challenge_to_Nelspruit_renaming

More:

Challenge to Nelspruit renaming
2009-10-27 12:07

Mbombela - More than 600 businesses in Mpumalanga are seeking legal advice on how to challenge what is believed to have been a flawed name change process, following the renaming of Nelspruit to Mbombela.

The companies, which are represented by the Lowveld Chamber of Business and Tourism (LCBT), argue that the consultation process conducted before Minister of Arts and Culture Lulu Xingwana gazetted the name change on October 16 was unfair.

“The chamber will take legal advice to establish the most effective way to proceed with their objection to the name change,” said the chamber's board correspondent, Linda Grimbeek.

“Our representatives are not aware of any consultation meetings they may have missed [as suggested by the name change committee last week],” she said.

Invitations

Grimbeek said consultation invitations from the provincial geographical names committee and the South African Geographical Names Council (SAGNC) often arrived too late to accommodate the meetings.

“Invitations to these meetings were generally received on very short notice, and meetings were in most instances scheduled for inconvenient times. Despite this, we have always managed to send representatives,” she said.
Grimbeek said the chamber was once invited to a meeting that started at 09:00 on a Saturday, and by late that afternoon the name change had not been addressed.

“The chamber received the invitation the Wednesday prior to the meeting and sent two representatives who attended but left the meeting at 15:00 that afternoon, by which stage the issue of Nelspruit's name change had not yet been tabled,” said Grimbeek.

She said no programme for the meeting had been provided.

Grimbeek said the Lowveld region was host to many of the country's tourism destinations and travellers would be confused by the use of the name Mbombela.

Nelspruit not politically offensive

“The second main objection is that Nelspruit's name is not politically offensive in any way. The chamber consulted a reputable historian to attest to the facts and history of the name.”

The DA in Mpumalanga also questioned the name change.

“While the DA is not opposed to the changing of offensive or derogatory names, we question the motive behind changing names which are not offensive and non-political,” said DA provincial leader Anthony Benadie.

He said the DA was concerned about the process followed in the approval of some of the 42 name changes Xingwana gazetted.

“According to reports, the public had until 16 October to submit comments or objections relating to the proposed name changes. But this date was not widely publicised and few persons knew that the deadline for submissions had been set,” he said.

Costs

Benadie said name changes were expensive as they included the change of “everything from maps to sign boards and company names, and even international tourism campaigns”.

“Most of these costs are paid by you, the taxpayer," he said.

He added that Parliament had also stressed that names should only be changed if absolutely essential to provide justice and only after all facts had been considered.

“Both Parliament and the national government also stress that the economic costs and social benefits need to be carefully balanced to ensure that the system is not abused and does not unnecessarily waste scarce public resources,” he said.

But SAGNC councillor and provincial geographical names committee deputy chairperson Mpyane Ratau-Dlamini stuck to her guns, saying all necessary documents were available to prove that consultation was done.

“There is proof, including documents that show details of meetings, attendance registers, dates, times and venues where they were held,” said Ratau-Dlamini.

“The problem is that these complaints are arising from a small group. Yes, they have money, but the majority have a voice and they have spoken. We did not do our will here, but that of the people,” she said.


- African Eye

Mb..Mb... Mbob... Bobm.. Bomb... I can't pronounce it. :(

(I am not even going to try Knysna.)

Anyway,

I'll be visiting the place next year. :)

Nize-nuh ;)

I meant the ktai... xatk... ktausx... tuiksx... Oh crap, you know what I meant! :lol:

You probably have to be able to produce certain sounds. I'll just keep it at Nelspruit and Knysna.

The South African renaming process is one of the most racist and hateful things today in the world. It's so sad.

All the reconciliation conducted by Mandela (a wonderful example settled to the world) has been destroyed by the current government, and its ethnic cleasing campaign. Where are the protesters?

This is Exactly why South African issues, should remain South African issues.

The unfortunate thing is that this IS happening, you can throw fits, jump a fire, consult a Sangoma nothing you say or do will ever steer the direction at which this country is going, you cant please everyone, if you're not happy, you can jump off a moving car, see if anyone gives a crap!

This is Exactly why South African issues, should remain South African issues.

This kind of attitude may explain the xenophobic May 2008 riots.


you cant please everyone, if you're not happy, you can jump off a moving car

The apartheid government probably kept this in mind when they created the bantustans and expelled all the "undesirables".

The unfortunate thing is that this IS happening, you can throw fits, jump a fire, consult a Sangoma nothing you say or do will ever steer the direction at which this country is going, you cant please everyone, if you're not happy, you can jump off a moving car, see if anyone gives a crap!

Sounds like this moving car is heading for Beitbridge.....

This is Exactly why South African issues, should remain South African issues.

Because that worked so well in the past...

Die Kapenaar, you can change as many names as you wish, but you cannot change the truth. Your fascination with numbers and majorities is confusing you into thinking you are 'the' authority. Do not be tempted to follow the masses as they are more uninformed than you are and they are voting their hatred instead of their desires. All that these numbers goes to prove, is that a lot of people can make the same foolish errors at the same time. The good news is that it is not too late to change your mind. :)

well said mr KF, good to see you here and contrubuting

This is confusing. The ANC should just begin the name changes including Mbombela on January 1st, 2010 and be done with it.

Not surprised the DA is opposed to the name changes as they are becoming irrelevant to the body politic of SA. This is political suicide on their part as they only got 7% of the provincial vote in Mpumalanga.

dude you are becoming such a troll and Im sure you are skating on infraction ice now as every post you have has a political or racial tone, Im sure mods are aware of this?

Anyway people like you are irrelivant now days and I for one will NOT reply to any of your childish posts and I suggest all my mature mates here, white , black, brown and green do the same. Dont feed the troll kids

The unfortunate thing is that this IS happening, you can throw fits, jump a fire, consult a Sangoma nothing you say or do will ever steer the direction at which this country is going, you cant please everyone, if you're not happy, you can jump off a moving car, see if anyone gives a crap!

Wow, you'd rather get mad at opponents and have them tossed from a moving vehicle than engage in debate the real issues surrounding a topic. Sounds a lot like a certain youth league's modus operandi to me.

No logic in debating in something thats already done. I tried to show you the reasoning behind it, and you clearly weren't interested! You'd rather keep your own judgments and beliefs, in the process throw the racist tag at everyone who doesn't see things your way, insult me, calling me julius malema, insinuating that the country's leader's, and these are statesmen who've earned respect, are fools. So who is not debating here, Annman? FYI---> One is not racist because he prefers a race over another, as many have decided to spray Die Kappernar that way. That's preferance! Racism is showing genuine hate or dislike, towards a person because of.... You want racists, look back to the pre-1994 governments, you want racists hitler is a racist and his nazi's. Stop wavering this word around because you think its fun, if anybody should be banned its those that are quick to call other forrumers by such belittling, and hatefull terms.

WOA: Dont be victims of your own paranoia, no one's out to eradicate white people, there are much more important issues at hand as you well know and have quite clearly stated several times more than you needed to. Its just name changes, take it as it is, because that's all it is. And besides you have 60%+ of the country's wealth, that and 80%+ of the country's businesses, you have more knowledge in between the 3-4 million of you, than the other 40 million population, you are the golden goose! And besides all of that, you are South African....:).........now watch some idiot call me a racist, because i talk about something he shy's away from.

Kwazi, I think your moving car's brakes are failing........

WOA: Dont be victims of your own paranoia, no one's out to eradicate white people, there are much more important issues at hand as you well know and have quite clearly stated several times more than you needed to. Its just name changes, take it as it is, because that's all it is. And besides you have 60%+ of the country's wealth, that and 80%+ of the country's businesses, you have more knowledge in between the 3-4 million of you, than the other 40 million population, you are the golden goose! And besides all of that, you are South African....:).........now watch some idiot call me a racist, because i talk about something he shy's away from.

you make a good point but its the way its being done. its being politicised and is not transparent and open.

Also as pointed out , the hundreds of milliosn spend on this could have build schools, medical facilities and houses.

Name change is part of evolving as as a society but it seems to be all thats driving some poeples though prosess, Also seems to crop up in rural areas around election time alot too.

I must say that I think Malema is a fool and a comparison to Sisulu and MAdiba is a disgrace and taints the reputation of such important figures in our history. As for countries statesms earing respect, I disagree on that one aswell, Think travel gate, rape cases, Fraud, kick backs, million rand cars, tax payer funder shopping trips, letting comrades out of jail, underming the judiciory etc and these guys are who Malema looks up too.

WOA: Dont be victims of your own paranoia, no one's out to eradicate white people, there are much more important issues at hand as you well know and have quite clearly stated several times more than you needed to. Its just name changes, take it as it is, because that's all it is. And besides you have 60%+ of the country's wealth, that and 80%+ of the country's businesses, you have more knowledge in between the 3-4 million of you, than the other 40 million population, you are the golden goose! And besides all of that, you are South African....:).........now watch some idiot call me a racist, because i talk about something he shy's away from.

paranoia- Kill the boet kill the farmer, remember that and then 2000 farmers were murdered, please explain?
Supporting Mugabe for years and his clearly rasist policies, dident see too much from the ANC comrades?
Hell even today that other clown from the ANCYL threaded to kill the VC of the free state univercity.

I mean who runs this country the ANC or the ANCYL populist policies. I see none of these youth league (shouldent age be a critaeria in a youth leage or is it mearly IQ based?) have degrees , makes a statement doesnt it

Most of the time I feel so positive about SA and its future, but then people like Kwazi come along and ruin the whole party. It's times like these that I begin wondering if there's any hope for the country or if we'll simply end up like almost every s**thole North of us.

It's also sadly ironic how some of the more fortunate black people harp on about "the whites" having all the money, benefiting from education etc, but as soon as something like a nonsensical expensive name change comes along they couldn't give two hoots about their less fortunate black brothers. It's every man for himself in reality. Why should they care about someone else having to live in less-than-adequate conditions as long as they live in a town with a new name?

To put the cherry on top of the cake, do they really think people of Nelspruit are all going to suddenly start calling the place Mbombela? Fat chance. What a waste of money they could be used elsewhere. But of course you'll never hear them admit it, although they know it's true deep down. They'd rather detract from the real issue with a smokescreen filled with accusations against whites or something of the sort. That very fact is quite evident in some posts in this very thread.

To put the cherry on top of the cake, do they really think people of Nelspruit are all going to suddenly start calling the place Mbombela? Fat chance. What a waste of money they could be used elsewhere.

This is one of the biggest issues I have with the expensive name changes, that no one actually uses them.

You guys take the ANCLY a lot more seriously than the ANC does, Who outrightlly amongst the ANC has ever said, we are going to do what Julius has suggested? How many times has he been asked to apologise for his comments? How many of the ANC member and allies have made backlashe's to the guy? But you seem to think what J.M say's shall be done! Come hell or high water! He's one person amongst the ANCYL and you cant even distinguish that either. Graduates of today, Jeerlik! We live in a country most of us are proud of today, its not perfect, but its moving! We are free, free enough to call the president of the country a rapist, even though no court declared him that, shift in power happened without any bloodshed, No one pulled or is pulling the "Mugabe" on anyone, and there are many things that we can be proud off, if you choose to think all of the time about expensive cars, shopping spree's...and what else? Im sure you know them a lot more than I do, then go ahead. Depress yourself, just dont expect any of us, who know better, to follow you blindly. The ANC is, like any other political party in the world not perfect. But everything that's worth being proud off today in this country happened under their guidance and stewardship, and I have the patience to wait for them to improve or wait till other political parties have enough power to challenge them. @ Lydon so i disappoint you....And I give a fuck.....why again?.....look man, your personal feelings towards me are so unimportant, that you need not even mention them...I really dont care much about you. Now digest that! And then tell me where in my post have I been wrong, and kindly please tell me what the right statement would be. By the way on your way to the airport leaving the country for good, I'll carry your bags for you:) if you call me.

This is one of the biggest issues I have with the expensive name changes, that no one actually uses them.

Did you and Lydon expect people to suddenly call these place's with their new names? Because if you did then you're not very smart. And Im sorry but you're not. It doesn't matter when it's changed, its going to take sometime before register's on peoples head's, but it will. And for the last time *sigh* shape up to the order of things of the new South Africa Or ship out!!!

what a clown

love the commie logic of we are all equal (some more than others) but if you dont like what we do then leave, so much for a rainbow nation and everyones voice counts. Its idiots like this that spoil this Thread, and Sa in General. This clown is another I now refuse to debate with so adios amego and enjoy living in your utopian corupt cronnie 20% for woodwork land

Clown or not. What Im saying is true!

K, thats sorted. Now Back to the topic at hand please

I agree with Lydon on this, even though I am not sure if Lydon looks on both sides of things
Kwazimoto does not iether - always shouting as well

And a quote from Kwazimoto: "But everything that's worth being proud off today in this country happened under their guidance and stewardship"

Do not totally agree on this statement

Feather by feather the golden goose is flying away. Driven by each individuals selfishness to get the best from him/herself and family.

This might be an indication why: http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=7933596&story_id=14582820

So the average South African is now worse off than in 1990.

I'm in full support of the "Bantuization" of these former apartheid holdouts. The dwindling (and rapidly aging) population of Boers can cry all they want, but this name changing process will rightly continue. I for one couldn't care less if an illegal Boer settled this town a century ago, the indigenous were never informed about it, so the new name should stay.

It's also nice to finally see a few South Africans who have lived through the struggles actually giving their perspective. I know how intimidating it feels when you have so many apartheid beneficiaries in here telling you that you're wrong, but continue standing your ground. They will never understand how shameful it feels for the indigenous to see parts of their country named after people who were never invited there. Everything isn't always about money, but you can't expect someone who has lived behind a gated compound for the majority of their life to understand that.

Hopefully with these name changes, the government will invest some money into the further development of indigenous languages spoken in SA.

The South African renaming process is one of the most racist and hateful things today in the world. It's so sad.

All the reconciliation conducted by Mandela (a wonderful example settled to the world) has been destroyed by the current government, and its ethnic cleasing campaign. Where are the protesters?

Wow, who knew a name change could be one of the most racist things in the world. AFAIK, Boers still have all the same rights as the indigenous, but I guess when it involves Europeans, it's automatically 10x worse!

Next thing you know, we'll be talking about "boer genocide." :rofl:

I for one will certainly practice on my pronunciation. :D

I wonder if SA is going to be like Zimbabwe where they expelled all the Caucasians from their country, I wonder how it's gonna be like for 12,50% - 14% of SA's population to be kicked out in the near future. They'll probably all move to Australia UK or Neth. I'm guessing... Well, it sucks to be them.

I wonder if SA is going to be like Zimbabwe where they expelled all the Caucasians from their country, I wonder how it's gonna be like for 12,50% - 14% of SA's population to be kicked out in the near future. They'll probably all move to Australia UK or Neth. I'm guessing... Well, it sucks to be them.

You should do a bit of research before you go making ridiculous claims. Whites were never expelled from Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe and SA are night and day.

Whites are nowhere near 12% of the population in SA, especially considering the millions of undocumented Africans all over SA. At the most, I'd say 5-6% and shrinking due to abysmal birth rates, an aging population, and emigration.

You should do a bit of research before you go making ridiculous claims. Whites were never expelled from Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe and SA are night and day.

Whites are nowhere near 12% of the population in SA, especially considering the millions of undocumented Africans all over SA. At the most, I'd say 5-6% and shrinking due to abysmal birth rates, an aging population, and emigration.

How can that be? at the end of apartheid only about 14 years ago they were around 14%, unless there was some sourt of massive exodus in that short period of time, I doubt it. Besides, there has been a-lot of other Black immigrants, but also a-lot of Brits and other African Whites move there.

And how can you say that the White Zimbabweans weren't kicked out of that country if Mugabe expropriated their farms and promoted "possitive" racism against them, I didn't do research, but I heard about this in a special documentary from the BBC a few months ago or perhaps about a year ago, I think it was from that news company, I'm not sure

How can that be? at the end of apartheid only about 14 years ago they were around 14%, unless there was some sourt of massive exodus in that short period of time, I doubt it. Besides, there has been a-lot of other Black immigrants, but also a-lot of Brits and other African Whites move there.

Bingo.

There was a huge exodus of whites from South Africa at the end of apartheid (I think somewhere around 2 million), which continues to this day, but at a much lower rate. You're correct in saying that there are white immigrants from places such as Europe and Zimbabwe (a good portion are retirees), but that still doesn't do anything to offset the declining fertility rate and aging population of the white population in South Africa.

With the constant inflow of black Africans from other parts of Africa into South Africa, it's only inevitable that whites will shrink into an even smaller minority. As of recent, whites were estimated to comprise 8% of the population in South Africa, but when you take into account the 8+ million undocumented black Africans in SA, that number diminishes.

And how can you say that the White Zimbabweans weren't kicked out of that country if Mugabe expropriated their farms and promoted "possitive" racism against them, I didn't do research, but I heard about this in a special documentary from the BBC a few months ago or perhaps about a year ago, I think it was from that news company, I'm not sure

Ignorance.

Whites weren't kicked out of Zimbabwe, they were kicked off the farms they illegally occupied. I support land redistribution, but not in Mugabe fashion. A good portion of the original owners of the land stolen by the European colonists are still alive, but instead of Mugabe transferring their land back to them, he gave it to his undeserving henchmen.

No one forced whites to leave Zimbabwe.

^^No body explicitly forced them, but, would you leave a place where everbody else hates you?

You don't have to answer this at all, you can just keep it to yourself, but, it makes me wonder, would you be happy is SA was free of those "invadors"?

^^No body explicitly forced them, but, would you leave a place where everbody else hates you?

Of course I would, but that has very little to do with the majority of Zimbabweans. There are quite a few Zimbabweans who would like to see whites keep their farmland due to the inefficiency of Mugabe's henchmen. There was actually a protest a few months back demanding this. Personally, I would rather see the Zimbabwean government invest in agricultural colleges, but a cheaper alternative would be to give skilled farmers land (no matter what their background), and have them transfer skills to others.

You don't have to answer this at all, you can just keep it to yourself, but, it makes me wonder, would you be happy is SA was free of those "invadors"?

No.

This kind of attitude may explain the xenophobic May 2008 riots.

The apartheid government probably kept this in mind when they created the bantustans and expelled all the "undesirables".

Cool thread you opened for Johannesburg in the Brasilian Forum.

Did you and Lydon expect people to suddenly call these place's with their new names? Because if you did then you're not very smart. And Im sorry but you're not. It doesn't matter when it's changed, its going to take sometime before register's on peoples head's, but it will. And for the last time *sigh* shape up to the order of things of the new South Africa Or ship out!!!

Considering I said

do they really think people of Nelspruit are all going to suddenly start calling the place Mbombela? Fat chance.

(which, in case you didn't realise, means that I do NOT think people are going to "suddenly call these place's with their new names"), the only one here with intellectual issues is likely yourself.

What "order" is this that you are going on about? Officials in government claiming to work for the people and the majority, yet they spend millions on cars and hotel bills while those they claim to work for are shunned? That's nothing to be remotely proud of.

Make no mistake about it, should the need arise I shall very well ship out. The only reason I have stayed here and encourage others to is because I don't want to contribute towards the country's brain drain and I quite love living in a province surrounded by people with some political sense.

To think I used to wonder who the idiots were who are continually fooled by all talk and no action - resulting in our current government! :nuts:

There are a few forumers here who display the very attitude the freedom fighters were fighting against 50 years ago. Unbeknownst to them they are fast becoming the very people they once hated and there is a weak attempt to veil their true feelings under the pretext of 'racial preference'.

It really boils down to the 'authority' problem. There seems to be a feeling from a few on this forum that change was bought about in South Africa, unilaterally and without the willing participation from the minorities whatsoever. This leaves the question of authority wide open and it is very tempting to fill the gap...........

It is not very difficult to read the whims and fancies of the ignorant masses. In this regard it is easy to be right. What is not easy is to think for yourself. An ignorant huddle of millions of people does not change the truth, as tempting as that may be.

A euphoric wave of ignorance is been ridden, and in the confusion, the search for the 'holy grail' of 'murder finally justified' seems attainable. The wave is reaching tsunami proportions, but it is only going to come crashing down on itself.

Guys like I said dont feed the troll. Do not repond to the idiots comments no matter how provoocative they are and ignore him.

Mike please intervean ASAP on this as its turing ugly and political again by a newbie who is ruining the positivness we have build here over the past 8 years with his cheap uneducated statements.

"revolution" "struggle" "liberation" are some of the easiest political concepts to sell the masses in Africa. The extent to which they are relevant in reality or whether they really help the poor has little bearing. Mugabe has been milking that cow for years, by the time the population realised that he was crazy (and voted against him) it was too late.

I personally have nothing against name changes. But I do believe it is often championed by people he are not honest in their endeavour. You are deluding yourself if you think struggle politics has more to offer to SA's poor. Truth is it has accomplished everything it could: democracy, property rights, freedom of movement, equal opportunity ..etc. The only purposes is now serves are political (see how Malema quickly achieved superstar status). Don't be fooled, it will not get you a better job, won't make you more money, it won't improve your health care, won't reduce unemployment or crime. Only slow moving, constructive and painfully debated policies can do that, just look at any country that's had any success in those areas.

The South African renaming process is one of the most racist and hateful things today in the world. It's so sad.

All the reconciliation conducted by Mandela (a wonderful example settled to the world) has been destroyed by the current government, and its ethnic cleasing campaign. Where are the protesters?

Ethnic cleansing campaigns? Are you being serious? Do people seriously think people of the fairer skin are being slaughtered wholesale here?

I've had my say on the topic in terms of the skewed priorities. The way you put things in your post makes one get defensive though. I've said that if a place had another name before, change it back. If it didn't exist before and the name is innocuous then there's no reason to change it if it makes no sense to do so. Especially Nelspruit coz it was apparently grazing land belonging to the Nel family.

At the same time, in the long run (NOTE: long run!) when other, more pertinent issues have been dealt with, we as a people (all 50+ million of us) will have to look at how fair it is to live in a country where there are roughly 14/15 different cultural and/or language groups, and yet have a vast majority of names belonging to 2 or 3 groups' cultural backgrounds. Im not advocating proportional representation in this but the other side of the coin is that this country wasnt just built by those who got to name things. Someone's back had to be used right? And that person was as much a part of this country as the namers (not more but not less). So who will honour his or her culture? Is that an unreasonable question to ask?

I, however, dont want half our country named after ANC/SACP people as that's again falling into the trap of seeing some seeing themselves as more important and they honestly only got on the scene a few decades ago, so what is their importance in the greater direction of South Africa?

This idea of naming new cities with more representative names isnt really gonna work because in the next 100 years, for example, how many new cities are going to be founded in South Africa that wont end up as only klein dorpies?

A euphoric wave of ignorance is been ridden, and in the confusion, the search for the 'holy grail' of 'murder finally justified' seems attainable. The wave is reaching tsunami proportions, but it is only going to come crashing down on itself.

i like this lol can I quote u on that Mr KF? :)

Man i love my country so much. When I think about all the crazy, funny, great and unique aspects you'll find here, there is nowhere on Earth I'd rather be. I just wish we'd be more reasonable in our discourse. I dunno... reason just seems to fall by the wayside on both sides. Is it because this thing is still fresh in our minds? The TRC didn't really help general South Africa because clearly there are people on both sides who failed to realise that we are brothers and sisters here. Forget what the other guys from Africa say an "African" is. We are a unique and beautiful family and I wish we'd respect every culture and at least LISTEN to each's views.

This sounds like such lovey dovey, feel-good bull but if we could just stop shouting every once in a while and look beyond our realities as groups and see our common reality as a single entity :grouphug: we can have a more meaningful discussion about who we are and want to be. Mandela was a good example of inclusiveness indeed but we failed to follow in his footsteps (even the people that were with him in the party) because here we are at each others throats again, instead of us all really talking things through. Properly. Eish...

"revolution" "struggle" "liberation" are some of the easiest political concepts to sell the masses in Africa. The extent to which they are relevant in reality or whether they really help the poor has little bearing. Mugabe has been milking that cow for years, by the time the population realised that he was crazy (and voted against him) it was too late.

I personally have nothing against name changes. But I do believe it is often championed by people he are not honest in their endeavour. You are deluding yourself if you think struggle politics has more to offer to SA's poor. Truth is it has accomplished everything it could: democracy, property rights, freedom of movement, equal opportunity ..etc. The only purposes is now serves are political (see how Malema quickly achieved superstar status). Don't be fooled, it will not get you a better job, won't make you more money, it won't improve your health care, won't reduce unemployment or crime. Only slow moving, constructive and painfully debated policies can do that, just look at any country that's had any success in those areas.

I am reminded of a student leader who said we dont need to tell people they are hungry they know they are. "Revolution' as you put it was no more than a reaction to the way people were forced to live in Africa not as much a concept that needs to be packaged and sold to people. If you are faced with very little economic prospects and a life of servitude do you think it would be hard to organiza yourself into some resistance outfit.

Wow, who knew a name change could be one of the most racist things in the world. AFAIK, Boers still have all the same rights as the indigenous, but I guess when it involves Europeans, it's automatically 10x worse!

Next thing you know, we'll be talking about "boer genocide." :rofl:

ANC is undoubtly much more racist than NP. They hate all South African white, specially the Afrikaners, and also hate all black people outside SA. I know that sounds simplistic, but it's true.

About the "Boer Genocide", of course it exists. What about the songs "kill the boers"? What about that monsters, which kill farmers in the most sadistic ways? Don't you have a word about that? I'd rather prefer be a black under apartheid rule thaen an Afrikaner in one of those SA farms today. By far.

But I know what's going on: first, ANC will erase the names and abolish the Afrikaans. After, they'll start to push white people out of SA and finally steal or even murder, the resilients. Like, I said before, it seems simplistic (and my English doesn't help), but that's the true.

It's so sad to me finding people here in SSC, pro this hate campaign.


Ethnic cleansing campaigns? Are you being serious? Do people seriously think people of the fairer skin are being slaughtered wholesale here?

There was 300,000 white people in Zimbabwe in 1975. Today, less than 30,000. Where are all those 300,000 whites? Ethnic cleasing is not only about kill, but also progroms, relocations, expropriation and intimidation.

And I also would like to know your opinion about the 2,000 Afrikaners murdered since 1994. How many people the NP government killed? For me, murder is a hideous thing, no matter the victim's colour. Sadly, it seems some people here don't share this view.


Cool thread you opened for Johannesburg in the Brasilian Forum.

Thank you, Zatuga! I love SA, and that's some sort of a tribute.


At the same time, in the long run (NOTE: long run!) when other, more pertinent issues have been dealt with, we as a people (all 50+ million of us) will have to look at how fair it is to live in a country where there are roughly 14/15 different cultural and/or language groups, and yet have a vast majority of names belonging to 2 or 3 groups' cultural backgrounds. Im not advocating proportional representation in this but the other side of the coin is that this country wasnt just built by those who got to name things. Someone's back had to be used right? And that person was as much a part of this country as the namers (not more but not less). So who will honour his or her culture? Is that an unreasonable question to ask?

Of course!!!! They built all those cities. For the new cities, or new districts, people can (or even should) give Bantu names.

ANC is undoubtly much more racist than NP. They hate all South African white, specially the Afrikaners

Really? Is that why the president of South Africa called Afrikaners the "true white tribe of Africa?"

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Such ignorance isn't worthy of a reply.

I am reminded of a student leader who said we dont need to tell people they are hungry they know they are. "Revolution' as you put it was no more than a reaction to the way people were forced to live in Africa not as much a concept that needs to be packaged and sold to people. If you are faced with very little economic prospects and a life of servitude do you think it would be hard to organiza yourself into some resistance outfit.

As I'm typing this, I'm wondering if you are trying to support my point by intentionaly displaying the very incapacity (or unwillingness) to distingish between past and current "resistance outfits" that I was refering to in my initial post. If you are ..then thank you ..I guess... :shifty:

ANC is undoubtly much more racist than NP. They hate all South African white, specially the Afrikaners, and also hate all black people outside SA. I know that sounds simplistic, but it's true.

About the "Boer Genocide", of course it exists. What about the songs "kill the boers"? What about that monsters, which kill farmers in the most sadistic ways? Don't you have a word about that? I'd rather prefer be a black under apartheid rule thaen an Afrikaner in one of those SA farms today. By far.

But I know what's going on: first, ANC will erase the names and abolish the Afrikaans. After, they'll start to push white people out of SA and finally steal or even murder, the resilients. Like, I said before, it seems simplistic (and my English doesn't help), but that's the true.

It's so sad to me finding people here in SSC, pro this hate campaign.

There are 300,000 white people in Zimbabwe in 1975. Today, less that 30,000? Where are all those 300,000 whites? Ethnic cleasing is not only about kill, but also progroms, relocations, expropriation and intimidation.

And I also would like to know your opinion about the 2,000 Afrikaners murdered since 1994. How many people the NP government killed? For me, murder is a hideous thing, no matter the victim's colour. Sadly, it seems some people here don't share this view.


:eek2: I don't know what to say... So I will say nothing.

Im glad you love SA though :) and its been nice sharing ideas with you on this... sort of. I will no longer be reading nor replying here as this is now a mess. Responding to the topic, I dont think they should change the name Nelspruit. Peace be upon you.

^^
I admit that is not a conventional view. That's because people are always afraid to talk about racism towards white people, specially in Africa. I'm completely colour blind on this issue. For me, doesn't matter the perpetrator or the victim race. Racism is racism. Unfortunately, for some people, only white people in southern US, or the Germans in the 1930's or the Afrikaners can be racist. And because of that, we watched peacefully the Rwanda genocide, the Mugabe crimes or the May 2008 riots.


Really? Is that why the president of South Africa called Afrikaners the "true white tribe of Africa?"

You didn't bring that to the discussion... Are you kidding me?

The Nazi Germany, in the Eastern Front, had several Slavs troops, even Jewish. That was only a strategy to calm the Afrikaners down, and to insult the SA English-speaking white media. The racist ANC keeps its campaign to eliminate the Afrikaans and the Afrikaners of South Africa.

I know my opinion is irrelevant on that matter, but I'll use the old Afrikaans names to designate the old Afrikaners cities and towns. Once the Afrikaans language were symbol of opression. Today, words like "Tshwane", "Polokwane", represents the new and revigorated SA racism.

You didn't bring that to the discussion... Are you kidding me?

The Nazi Germany, in the Eastern Front, had several Slavs troops, even Jewish. That was only a strategy to calm the Afrikaners down, and to insult the SA English-speaking white media. The racist ANC keeps its campaign to eliminate the Afrikaans and the Afrikaners of South Africa.

I know my opinion is irrelevant on that matter, but I'll use the old Afrikaans names to designate the old Afrikaners cities and towns. Once the Afrikaans language were symbol of opression. Today, words like "Tshwane", "Polokwane", represents the new and revigorated SA racism.

:lol: Okay.

Yuri, theirs definitely racist elements within the ANC but to say that it is worst than the NP and that Zuma is trying to get rid of the Afrikaner population is looming on psycho territory. I honestly think Zuma prefers the Afrikaans over English speaking whites because their more tied to the land, culture and less likely to hold dual citizenship by moving elsewhere.

Do you know who Zuma appointed as the agricultural minister? Pieter Mulder, not only is he an Afrikaner but the leader of the Freedom Front Plus, a right wing exclusively Afrikaner political party. I think he has done far more out reaching towards this group than Mbeki has ever done, and he's the supposed radical...:nuts:

This thread makes me extremely angry because except for kwazi(admitting you prefer one over the other makes you a biggot true not a racist but still unhealthy and small minded because thats what you accused most whites of being earlier) an dk trolling this thread has been filled with hate by foreigners . thanx flyboy for trying to calm things down :) honestly i support some name changes of places like nelspruit etc but then go the dual name route and dont do it at the cost of service delivery . dysan pls if internationals derail our threads and spread hate kick them out pls pls pls . im proud to be South African , how can i not be . my province isnt even in a recession have had positive job growth this year...

:lol: Okay.

I wouldn't expect anything different from you. You don't even bother to hide your racism.


Yuri, theirs definitely racist elements within the ANC but to say that it is worst than the NP and that Zuma is trying to get rid of the Afrikaner population is looming on psycho territory. I honestly think Zuma prefers the Afrikaans over English speaking whites because their more tied to the land, culture and less likely to hold dual citizenship by moving elsewhere.

Do you know who Zuma appointed as the agricultural minister? Pieter Mulder, not only is he an Afrikaner but the leader of the Freedom Front Plus, a right wing exclusively Afrikaner political party. I think he has done far more out reaching towards this group than Mbeki has ever done, and he's the supposed radical...:nuts:

I've been in SA for only 6 weeks, and I'm not an expert in the local politics. Even so, I know ANC is not exclusively racist (it's a big party, with different opinions), but it's quite clear they push racist polices, unfortunately with popular approval.

When I made the comparisson ANC/NP, I meant in terms of physical safety, and for me, the Afrikaners' position is worst than the 9 Bantu people, the Indians and the Coloureds under the NP rule. For me, it's shocking how the government and the society ignore all those barbaric crimes against the Afrikaners farmers, specially the English white section. In addition, the effort to push aside the Afrikaans language, is bigger today than it was in the past against the Bantu languages. I keep my point: I'd rather prefer to live in a township during the NP rule, than in a Afrikaner farm under ANC.

About the Zuma-Mulder thing, it's refreshing to know, but it seems that is not enough to hold this racist campaign to erase the Afrikaners cities. Yesterday, on ESPN Brasil, I saw Mandela wearing the Springboks shirt in 1996. Good times...


This thread makes me extremely angry because except for kwazi(admitting you prefer one over the other makes you a biggot true not a racist but still unhealthy and small minded because thats what you accused most whites of being earlier) an dk trolling this thread has been filled with hate by foreigners

Johan, I hope you are not talking about me. I'm not feeding any "hate", and these negative views towards foreigners is (or should be) in SA out of place, specially after May 2008.

I wouldn't expect anything different from you. You don't even bother to hide your racism.

Such ignorance isn't worthy of a reply.

I have much more respect for those who are upfront with their so-called racism as opposed to someone who pretends to like me in my face, but talks about me behind my back. :fiddle: :fiddle: :fiddle:

Nelspruit or Mbombela is still my home town that I love mostly. I will be thankful if the race vs race issue could be stopped. It will be appropriate if we could discuss something constructive for a change. I love Afrikaaners and the Zulus and every tribe or group that comes in between anywhere across the world. Its a bit sad to walk around any SA town and discover that the racial mix that was the case after 94 is fading. Racial diversity is our South African strength that makes us unique yet different. We could achieve so much if we could work together if we compliment rather than compete with each other. I love all South Africans regardless of our history and we should find strength in our Rainbow Nation.

Such ignorance isn't worthy of a reply.

I have much more respect for those who are upfront with their so-called racism as opposed to someone who pretends to like me in my face, but talks about me behind my back. :fiddle: :fiddle: :fiddle:

Your acsually proud of being a racist ? OMW you know that makes you less evolved than a monkey right? people like you an the likes of eugene terblanche should be banished to a island where you cant harm real human beings....

I wouldn't expect anything different from you. You don't even bother to hide your racism.




I've been in SA for only 6 weeks, and I'm not an expert in the local politics. Even so, I know ANC is not exclusively racist (it's a big party, with different opinions), but it's quite clear they push racist polices, unfortunately with popular approval.

When I made the comparisson ANC/NP, I meant in terms of physical safety, and for me, the Afrikaners' position is worst than the 9 Bantu people, the Indians and the Coloureds under the NP rule. For me, it's shocking how the government and the society ignore all those barbaric crimes against the Afrikaners farmers, specially the English white section. In addition, the effort to push aside the Afrikaans language, is bigger today than it was in the past against the Bantu languages. I keep my point: I'd rather prefer to live in a township during the NP rule, than in a Afrikaner farm under ANC.

About the Zuma-Mulder thing, it's refreshing to know, but it seems that is not enough to hold this racist campaign to erase the Afrikaners cities. Yesterday, on ESPN Brasil, I saw Mandela wearing the Springboks shirt in 1996. Good times...




Johan, I hope you are not talking about me. I'm not feeding any "hate", and these negative views towards foreigners is (or should be) in SA out of place, specially after May 2008.

If your referring to the xenophobic violence then you just lost your debating license... to think that what happened in those townships against the lowest echelon african imigrants mostly refugees has any bearing on what the broader society thinks of foreigners is laughable . we protested against those crimes , helped with aid and volunteered at the camps even after most of those refugees started acting as if they own the country. what i meant was the foreigners on this forum do not understand the dynamic in civilised south africa and dont care about the community were building on ssc . i will single out the proud racist kwame but most of you to a lesser degree do the same . you attack peoples race not the man or the argument . you can decide if this has bearing on you and if it does you have the power to change that. im an afrikaner and my dads a farmer so i know the community .

Such ignorance isn't worthy of a reply.
I have much more respect for those who are upfront with their so-called racism

That's because you're open and proud racist.


as opposed to someone who pretends to like me in my face, but talks about me behind my back. :fiddle: :fiddle: :fiddle:

Why's that? Because all white people is racist? Because every people which disagree with you is racist? I'm completely honest in discussion and I don't need to lie to you.


If your referring to the xenophobic violence then you just lost your debating license... to think that what happened in those townships against the lowest echelon african imigrants mostly refugees has any bearing on what the broader society thinks of foreigners is laughable . we protested against those crimes , helped with aid and volunteered at the camps even after most of those refugees started acting as if they own the country. what i meant was the foreigners on this forum do not understand the dynamic in civilised south africa and dont care about the community were building on ssc .

I understand your point. I misunderstood what you meant before. However, I don't agree in the foreign issue. Actually, my distance of SA, allows me delivery an unpassionated view about the problem.


i will single out the proud racist kwame but most of you to a lesser degree do the same . you attack peoples race not the man or the argument . you can decide if this has bearing on you and if it does you have the power to change that. im an afrikaner and my dads a farmer so i know the community .

Ok, it's unfair your comparisson. There is no racism in my arguments. Please, quote anything racist if you can. Where did I "attack peoples race and not the argument"? Actually, people love to do that against the Afrikaners. All the time, in every single opportunity.

And if all due respect: you live in Stellenbosch, surrounded by an huge Afrikaans-speaking area. I don't know many things about SA, but I'm pretty sure you are not the target. I'm talking about the Afrikaners farmers in Orange Free State and in the Western, Northern and Eastern Transvaal.

Good, Mbombela sounds much better.

Shut the fuck up, you piece of shit.

woah, this thread has gotten out of hand. Is this where education gets people? This isnt a thread about racism, although in S.A. any subject will always turn into that. sad

I think this thread should be closed for the sake of peace.

We have some of the craziest people alive in here.

I now operate a zero tolerance policy on race discussions. Finished and closed.