i ve heard there are many high speed train systems in europe ,so have anywhone a map that show the hole high speed train system of europe post it here ,ore make please a list of the high speed train systems of the european countries, i know there are the ICE in germany ,AVE in spain ,the X 2000 in sweden ,but have anywhone pics or maps of this systems ?? and whats with the special sytstems like the THALYS Paris. bruxelles Paris cologne or the eurostar Paris-Bruxelles/ Paris -London ?

High speed trains in Italy exist since the sixties when already run the ETR 220 and ETR 250 which run till a speed max of 200 km/h!


ETR 220
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR220/ETR222.jpg

ETR 250 SETTEBELLO
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR-misc/etr250.jpg


Then in the eighty arrived first version of PENDOLINO the ETR 401 and ETR 450 with its revolutionary tilting system patented by FIAT and sell to many European train industries.

ETR 401 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA):

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR401/etr401_2.jpg

ETR 450 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA):
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR450/etr450_3.jpg


After success of PENDOLINO and also under necessity to modernise Italian rail system, in the eighty started project and study of “direttrice T” (an high speed rail system with T shape who across all North and South Italy), so born apposite society TAV (treni alta velocità : high speed trains).
At present in Italy run four types of high speed train (ETR 460, ETR 470, ETR 500, ETR Y 500) further to TGV from Paris to Milan, ETR 460 and ETR 500 run on Italian rails since 1990.

ETR 500 (ANSALDOBREDA, design PINIFARINA, cruiser speed 250 km/h, max speed 300km/h )

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Bologna/Etr500mc.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Firenze/fs19990617A.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Venezia/ETR_500_Venezia.jpg

ETR 460 and ETR 480 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA)

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR460/Etr460Scilla.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR460/ETR460.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR480/FS-480-051.jpg

ETR 470 CISALPINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA), it connects Swiss to Italy


http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/guidojet/TR_CIS_ETR470_CLago_020915.jpg

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/guidojet/TR_CIS_ETR470_MilanoCle_020.jpg

ETR Y 500 (ANSALDOBREDA, cruiser speed 250 km/h, max speed 300km/h ) new entry with double type of supply for Italy and France standard and new de

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Milano/P3170039.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Milano/MILANO_C.3.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Roma/etr500_2810.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/advertising/etr500_56.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/advertising/pic_025.jpg

visit:

High Speed Trains of the World (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=98384&highlight=high+speed+train)

A shameless copy & paste of my post in that other thread:


Finland


http://www.saunalahti.fi/rautatie/travel/sm3espoo.jpg


Italian-made Pendolinos, slightly modified for Finnish needs, have been in use here since the early 1990's. Right now they travel to all major Finnish cities, supplementing the InterCity trains. Since the Pendolinos use the existing railway network, they can only travel as fast as 220 kmph.


http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/finland/images/fin6.jpg

We also have tilting trains. The new ones are still being delivered to Virgin Trrains for the West Coast Main Line. The trains travel up to 225km/h.

Here is one tilting:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1425000/images/_1428902_tilt300.jpg

Here is the man who owns them - Sir Richard Branson - who also owns the airline, coke company, car company, credit card company etc:

http://www.ananova.com/images/web/49756.jpg

Here is the new one parked next to the 1st ever tilting train, built in the 70s:

http://www.apt-p.com/APTUnveiling300a.jpg

Here is one at the station (Manchester I think):

http://www.twocapitals.co.uk/CTG/GIFS/pendol1.jpg

http://www.northwestplc.com/transport02/images/trans_1.jpg

They are very nice trains. Each passenger has their own head phone jack where you can plug your headphones in and listen to the radio channels Virgin provides!

Here are some more English trains:

http://www.phantasrail.com/2002/DSC_5123p.JPG

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/travel/images/gner_270.jpg

http://www.westyorkshirebuses.freeserve.co.uk/trains21.jpg

And of course the Eurostar, these ones are parked at London's Waterloo station:

http://www.sightseeingtours.co.uk/london/images/eurostar.jpg

Tilting system has been a succes, it's a pity that FIAT sell its FIAT FERROVIARIA last year (for no good situation of cars of group), btw Italian rest ANSALDOBREDA (part of FINMECCANICA group).

Here is the story of FIAT Pendolino who is running on of Swiss, Finnish, Spanish, Portuguese and Czech rail net, particular of this train is tilting system appropriate for territory full of mountains, curves and possibility to run on standard tracks without need to build a special rail net:
http://www.madeinfiat.com/marapr98/briefa.htm

If you want to watch everything about high speed in Italy, here is the link of official site of society TAV who is building high speed railway net (you can see projects, maps, pictures of work in progress, etc.):
http://www.tav.it/

There was a plan in the 90's to link all of Europe by high speed rail. 300KPH is required, and inevitably such a servise would compete very well with the airplanes which are polluting the air. At present I could travel from London to Paris, Brussels or Lille at 300KMH. Glasgow to Milan in a day should be easily possible. Sadly the UK west coast mainline upgrade will noly allow 225 tilting trains due to cutbacks.

I think one of the reasons there has been cutbacks is because there are plans for a new high-speed north-south railink in the UK. Also, First GreatWestern are planning a new 300kph service from London-Cardiff, via Bristol on new lines.

Actually we don't have a HST-line in Turkey but a line between Istanbul-Ankara and Ankara-Izmir is since 1-2 years under construction and will be completed in 2006.
I've some photos of the train which is made by TUVASAS,a turkish company.

http://www.me.metu.edu.tr/~ergin/TCDD/TUVASAS/Dizel_Set_1.JPG

http://www.tuvasas.com.tr/product/image/tvstrenset.jpg

http://www.tuvasas.com.tr/product/image/trenset_ana.jpg

The new lines which are U/C

http://wowturkey.com/tr12/MehmetCK_kuzeybati_demiryolu_agi.jpg

To answer the original poster: it's hard to give a map of the high speed network, because: what's high speed? A TGV doing 300 km/h on a high speed line is definately high speed, but what about a tilting train or intercity doing 200 km/h on a regular line?

Also, remember that TGV's, ICE's and other high speed trains also run on regular tracks on regular speeds. If you include all that, almost any major railway in Europe should be included in the map.

Here's the "official" map with all the high speed lines (red) and upgraded lines (green) that should be finished in 2020. Note that the map is not entirely correct; for example, the upgrade of the line between the Netherlands and Germany has unfortunately been cancelled.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~davidee/vertigo/cap1.gif

@messiah: the Turkish high speed lines are not on the map. Are those newly built high speed lines or upgraded existing lines? What speeds will the trains run on those lines? Any resources in English about it?

wow, i´ve never heard of that hsl between nürnberg and praha. Is this concretely planned?

I passed through Stuttgart on the Easter Break, and at their main trainstation is an excellent display of the proposed Stuttgart 21 extravaganza. In this, they mentioned high speed links between Frankfurt and Paris, and Stuttgart & Paris for a travel time of 3.5hours.

But no timescale.

Does anyone know of this? Damn it would be good to get to Paris by train so quickly.

All I know of is the TGV Est between Paris and Lorraine who U/C at the moment and further to Germany & Strasbourg the trace is not even determined !
Coming from Lyon up north , all plans are on the study table.
Before 2014 there won't be no high speed trains between FFM and Paris :(


btw => how is the situation between Barcelona and Montpellier ?

I'd like to see a HST triangle line between Zagreb-Belgrade-Sarajevo, and seperate links to Ljubljana from Zagreb and Skopje from Belgrade & Sarajevo:)

Maybe by 2020.

@messiah: the Turkish high speed lines are not on the map. Are those newly built high speed lines or upgraded existing lines? What speeds will the trains run on those lines? Any resources in English about it?

Except the Ankara - İstanbul route, all lines messiah showed are at the project phase. Although these lines will roughly follow existing tracks, curvatures will be reduced at many points to allow for higher speeds. The Ankara - İstanbul line is currently under construction and hopefully will enter service by 2006. The other lines will probably be gradually upgraded as part of a new initiative by TCDD to revamp itself and be more competitive. In fact (don't know how credible the claim is but) TCDD plans to spend $8bn in the next decade to modernize tracks. Private operators are also being considered so that TCDD can focus on track building.

I think the highspeed trains are ok for medium distance, but they are lagging more and more behind in speed and price on aircrafts nowadays.
A train just consumes too much space and maintenance (the full track) to be economical. Hence, the Highspeed train is not as important anymore as it was planned to be. Therefore it wouldn''t surprise me if the network will not be as extensive as indicated.
Even the Channeltunnel now is loosing more and more and will be bankrupt in 2007. It was just a little bit too late. The aircraft took over.

All I know of is the TGV Est between Paris and Lorraine who U/C at the moment and further to Germany & Strasbourg the trace is not even determined !
Coming from Lyon up north , all plans are on the study table.
Before 2014 there won't be no high speed trains between FFM and Paris :(


btw => how is the situation between Barcelona and Montpellier ?

TGV est (Part 1, 300km) is actually U/C and should be finished in 2006 (or 2007, I don't remember) . The construction of the second part is due to 2010.

The line between Barcelona and Perpignan is due to 2007 (?). The construction will start soon. A private company (TP Ferrero) has been chosen to built this line.

The line between Lyon and Torino is due to 2015 ! But because it is crossing the Alps, the cost are veru high and in this case, we never know what will happen !

@xgokhan: thanks for that information! :okay:

@bart: those are all consequences of political choices. The UK and French government decided to ask commercial prices for using the Channel tunnel, while hidden subsidies are given to air operators for flying to smaller airports. And airlines don't pay taxes on kerosine, while railway companies do have to pay ecological taxes on the energy they use. Isn't that weird?

/\ Rail travel is still far more subsidised and far less commercial than air travel. Airports are built by the private sector and airlines are profitable even though they pay for their own infrastructure. The subsidies given by airports to airlines like Ryanair represent a profitable commercial partnership. Airports make most of their money as shopping malls and therefore depend upon a throughput of passengers. It's in the commercial interests of airports to subsidise airlines like Ryanair to generate that traffic. Following the Charleroi ruling public airports are no longer allowed to offer these subsidies which merely puts them at a competitive disadvantage vis-a-vis private airports.

In Italy now from Milan to Rome it takes 4 hours and half bat very soon (within 2 years) it will takes 3 hours: for this goal a new bridge is being built on the river "Po" that looks strongly to Manattham bridge of New Jork and will be one of the biggest in Europe. Unfortunaly, Italy could have had a high railway system a long time ago but many unforseens happened.

X2000 - Swedish SJ:s highspeed train. I have travelled by X2000 once.

http://www.banbyggarna.com/MLM/bilder/Resize%20of%20SJ-X2000-Hawk.jpg
http://www.lexcie.zetnet.co.uk/x2000.jpg

They have even sold X2000 to China and USA
http://www.trainweb.org/railpix/ampix/x2000-hka.jpg

He, during my studies in Sweden I have been in factory (in Smoland, If I remember correctly) where X2000 is made. Have been also driving in it from Kalmar to Malmoe :) Dream to have something similar, some kind of InterBaltic express.

The X2000 is an extremely nice train, one of the best tilting trains in the world in my opinion. :okay:

(Tilting trains tilt in curves to allow higher speeds on existing tracks)

Nitpick: they didn't sell it to the USA; it did run on trials there, but Amtrak chose to buy a brand new product (Acela) instead. The main reason was that the X2000 didn't comply to the very strict American safety standards (which means that trains need to be as heavy as hell...)

Looking at this map I wonder how the Eastern European countries think about upgrading their lines ?
A while back I read an article about a HSL from Berlin to Warszawa...no funds I presume ?

http://www.xs4all.nl/~davidee/vertigo/cap1.gif

And Italy is going to build tunnels
with France the Lyon-Torino ( with a tunnel of 52 km ) 2015
with Austria the Brenner Tunnel 56 km 2015
the Genova-Milano (Terzo Valico ) 32 km of tunnel 2011
the Firenze-Bologna 76 km (70 are of tunnels) 2008

Great Numbers for a New Deal !!!

In Italy now from Milan to Rome it takes 4 hours and half bat very soon (within 2 years) it will takes 3 hours: for this goal a new bridge is being built on the river "Po" that looks strongly to Manattham bridge of New Jork and will be one of the biggest in Europe. Unfortunaly, Italy could have had a high railway system a long time ago but many unforseens happened.

I know that in Italy, there are technical troubles on "Diretissime" with electrical power: the 3 kv/DC is not enough for HSR (> 250 km/h). This problem will be fixed in a few month with 25 000 V/AC.

Current Italian high speed trains:

ETR 500
http://www.trenitalia.com/home/flotta/immagini/etr500_img1.jpg
Max speed: 300 Km/h

ETR 460/480
http://www.trenitalia.com/home/flotta/immagini/pendo_img1.jpg
Max Speed: 250 Km/h

And here are the stations planned for the next high speed system:

NAPLES (2008)
http://www.tav.it/img/napoli_Latonordest.jpg

FLORENCE (2009)
http://www.tav.it/img/stazFI1.jpg

ROME (2006)
http://www.tav.it/img/Tiburtina.jpg

TURIN (2008)
http://www.tav.it/img/Torino.jpg

Wow, nice design.
ETR500 is probabily one of the most beautiful trainset. It was designed by Pininfarina.
And what about next trains stations (expecialy florence) !!! Unbeliveable.

Last version of ETR 500 shown by yellow arrow, has got a duoble supply voltage system 3kV-25KV to run on France rail net.

@Tarchon: indeed. If I'm not mistaken, the future Italian high speed lines will also have a voltage of 25 kV.

The Florence stations looks fantastic, BTW!

@Tarchon: indeed. If I'm not mistaken, the future Italian high speed lines will also have a voltage of 25 kV.

The Florence stations looks fantastic, BTW!

I really don't know answer you, at present high speed net is not complete so the trains like ETR 500 and Pendolino run on standard rail net too.

Most high speeds trains travel a major part of their route on the standard railway network. I suppose the Pendolini will continue to do that, because the main advantage of tilting trains is that they go faster on existing lines.

Here are some more pictures of the English Tilting Trains:

http://www.steane.com/photos/uk/390010_man_picc_1.JPG

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-007.jpg

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-013.jpg

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-015.jpg

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-019.jpg

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-024.jpg

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-022.jpg]Club class

http://netsplit.com/events/2002/pendolino-euston/pendolino-euston-010.jpg

http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/img/innovations/new_pendolinos/pendolino_prints_02.jpg

http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/articleimages/virgin390s.jpg

Very nice! but aren't they too small inside? I seem there is little space...

Pretty, it has a cartoon design.

Very nice! but aren't they too small inside? I seem there is little space...

Yeah. I know what you mean.

As for the cartoon design - yeah, they almost look as if they are smiling!

Yes, they are cramped indeed. Now Brittish trains are always a bit cramped due to the restricted loading gauge (=maximum width and height) of the trains. But the Virgin tilting trains could and should have been better. I like First's news trains much better, far more space and comfort. They don't tilt though...

These ones:

http://www.railwatch.org.uk/backtrack/rw84/pics/class180.jpg

http://www.phantasrail.com/2002/DSC_5123p.JPG

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/news/032002/18/train.jpg

Indeed, nice trains, both outside and inside.

I thought Midland Mainline was also to buy Voyager trains (like the Virgin ones)? Do you know if this is true?

Hey Jo...
Iam from Germany here are some pics from the ICE3->Cologne-Frankfurt
http://wwwstud.fh-zwickau.de/~heisc/bahn/00_diverse/ice-td-1.jpg

I like very much English Tilting Trains :) cools !!!

In Portugal there's the ALFA-PENDULAR service which connects Lisbon and Porto at the speed of 200km/h.(ETR 480 trains) They want to improve it though, apparently they're renewing the railtracks as well.

http://www.rail.sk/etr/photos/480ap01.jpg

http://railweb.techsite.cz/galerie/fotky/pr006-04.jpg

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/alfa/images/alfa1.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/electric/emu/pendoluso/Lisboa/LX_020802_0004.jpg


There's also the TGV which will connect Lisbon and Porto to Madrid by 2010. They've just approved the project

Indeed, nice trains, both outside and inside.

I thought Midland Mainline was also to buy Voyager trains (like the Virgin ones)? Do you know if this is true?


Yes it is true. I think they have been ordered and are due for delivery next year.

Also, First Great Western is looking at the possibility of a new high-speed line between London-Bristol-Cardiff. Trains would go at 220mph+.

Also, the bidding for the contract for the East Coast Mainline is currently up for grabs. The government, SRA and Network Rail have streamlined it two two groups. The current operator - GNER - who have a very good record, and Virgin who have partnered with Stagecoah and a German company. They plan new high-speed lines as well. I believe GNER will get it though as they have had a good record so far.

Here is an example picture of a Midland Mainline Voyageur:

http://www.datajam.org.uk/rail/images/222.jpg

Here is a Virgin Voyageur, for those who haven't seen them before. They are not as fast as the Virgin Pendolinos as not all of them tilt:

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/gb/diesel/demu/220/CNM_Voyager.jpg

They are also not as long and diesel:

http://www.phantasrail.com/July03/DSC_7342r.JPG

Still a beautiful train though:

http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/images/221xxx-DT-27072002-1.jpg

Here is one of the Super-Voyaguers - this does tilt and will travel as fast as the Virgin Pendolinos. These are used on the WCML to supplement the Pendolions at not so busy periods:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/travel/story/tilting_train/virgin_super_voyager2_270.jpg

Just as a comparision, so that yo know the difference, here is the front of a Pendolino, compare it to the front of the Voyageur:

http://www.daisydesign.co.uk/images/pendolino.gif

P.S. The voyageurs have the same features as the Pendolinos: at-seat entertainment for all passengers and an on-board shop and a 'Quiet Zone', as well as Reserved Seating displays.

I love the new virgin trains. I think they look superb and the shop, audio entertainment and power points (for charging mini disc players ;) ) are all superb features. I've even found the customer service brilliant. I've travelled with Virgin a few times recently and have nothing but praise, I know people who have had bad experience but I have found their service to be of very high quality and they put the other TOC's to shame. I think they have tried very very hard and the new September timetable promisses further improvements in both Speed and frequency. I've never been on a pendolino, which I believe is marginally narrower than a Voyager, but I think the narrowness on the Voyager gives it a sleeker, faster more airplane like feel which I like. The tilt is superb too, and very relaxing and comfortable. I think the UK is getting there at last :)

Another nice looking train in the UK is the Gatwick, or Heathrow, Express. I'm always fond of the 125's too, I think they look great.

I didn't realise Midland Mainline were going for pendolinos. I know GNER were considering them too. The design looks slightly different which will be nice. I hope the 125's being replaced will be put to good use :(

Some pics from railway-technology.com

Gatwick Express

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/gatwick/images/gatwick1.jpg

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/gatwick/images/gatwick2.jpg

GNER Pendolino

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/eastcoast/images/2_east_coast_main_line.jpg

Grand Central Railway (IMO a great proposal for Trans-pennine serive using re-conditioned 125/225's)
http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/

http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/graphics/gallery/photo_hst_02.jpg

http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/graphics/gallery/photo_hst_01.jpg

http://www.grandcentralrail.co.uk/graphics/gallery/photo_standard_03.jpg

Don't all the different Commercial liveries look great? :D

now portugal and spain get a tgv linking them together, still none for europes second largest economy though.

now portugal and spain get a tgv linking them together, still none for europes second largest economy though.So the Channel Tunnel Rail Link doesn't count? I have already been on a Eurostar travelling at 300km/h through the English countryside. Eurostar are the best trains in Europe and the service is based in London. Eurostar trains are made 40% in Britain, 40% in France, and 20% in Belgium. This is high speed rail in Europe's second largest economy:

http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4103

Nice picture.

I wouldn't call Eurostar "the best trains in Europe" though. They are expensive as hell (for the operator), and not very comfortable when compared to for example the German ICE.

Nice picture.

I wouldn't call Eurostar "the best trains in Europe" though. They are expensive as hell (for the operator), and not very comfortable when compared to for example the German ICE.Eurostars are neraly 400m long and have a capacity of 800 passengers in a single trainset despite two entire carriages being buffet cars. Most 300km/h trains in Europe have only half this capacity yet still lack Eurostar's facilities.

I didn't find the eurostar's interior particularly amazing though, I prefere some of the trains Virgin use, however they are nice none the less.

More high speed trains for the UK and less cars and planes please.

Eurostars are neraly 400m long and have a capacity of 800 passengers in a single trainset despite two entire carriages being buffet cars. Most 300km/h trains in Europe have only half this capacity

Hmm, no. Indeed, one trainset has half the capacity. However, most TGV trains run with two sets combined. This way, they have almost the same capacity while being is far more flexible; they can use full capacity at peak times and less capacity at other times. The reason that this solution wasn't chosen for Eurostar is the fact that two combined sets do not comply with Channel Tunnel safety rules.


yet still lack Eurostar's facilities.

What facilities are you talking about? All European trains running 300 km/h have buffet cars (except for some short distance TGV trains). ICE trains have much more comfort and legroom availible.

And still, no high speed train is losing as much money as the Eurostar is doing.

@Vertigo
Eurostar is profitable. It's Eurotunnel that loses money. Yes a pair of TGV trainsets end-to-end can carry even more than Eurostar. Two Duplexes end-to-end can carry the European record of 1090 passengers at 300kph. However double trains are not single trainsets and, particularly on Duplex, conditions are more cramped. They also don't have such generous facilities. All TGV trains have buffet cars but not two entire cars per trainset devoted to buffet service! I suppose you could argue that double formations have the two between them which is more comparable. However TGV's have some passenger seating in their buffet cars so the space allocated for buffet is relatively smaller even on double trainsets. Duplex is the only other model to have entire cars devoted to buffet service. However on Duplex the dedicated buffet car must serve 545 passengers compared to 397 each on Eurostar. That meas that the Eurostar buffet service will be faster and more spacious. To my knowledge ICE's never travel in double formation so always have lower capacity.

i would like to know what´s the distance between London and Paris by train. Anyone knows it?

Eurostar is profitable. It's Eurotunnel that loses money.

My error, sorry. But Eurostar is sure having troubles keeping the Brussels route profitable. More economical trains would help.

air of TGV trainsets end-to-end can carry even more than Eurostar. Two Duplexes end-to-end can carry the European record of 1090 passengers at 300kph. However double trains are not single trainsets

In what way is it an advantage to have all passengers in one trainset? Do the passengers care? The result is the same; two trainsets is even better, because it's more flexible.

and, particularly on Duplex, conditions are more cramped.

Agreed, but both TGV's and Eurostar are pretty cramped anyway (and the interiors are pretty similar. Compare that to the generous ICE interiors...

They also don't have such generous facilities. All TGV trains have buffet cars but not two entire cars per trainset devoted to buffet service! I suppose you could argue that double formations have the two between them which is more comparable. However TGV's have some passenger seating in their buffet cars so the space allocated for buffet is relatively smaller even on double trainsets.

That's right, but besides the small difference in space for the buffet, the service is pretty similar (=not much choice and as expensive as hell). Again, ICE trains offer a better service, especially the older types (ICE1 and ICE2) which have a real restaurant car. Italian high speed trains also have restaurant cars.

To my knowledge ICE's never travel in double formation so always have lower capacity.

Yes, they do; except for ICE1, but those trains are very long by themselves. I could look up the amount of seats for ICE trains if you're interested.

Anyway, it seems that you're comparing Eurostar mostly to TGV trains. Those are pretty similar (Eurostar was derived from TGV's), and I have to admit E* is slightly better. But it can't compare to ICE or ETR500 in my opinion.

@Vertigo
I said they were the best trainsets and they are. Eurostar has a space advantage over double TGV sets and Duplex. Double trainsets have no advantage in flexibility unless you are going to split the two halves of the train further down the route. This is not applicable for Eurostar routes. If you simply want to match the length to demand you can always just remove a few carriages - as on the regional Eurostar sets in the UK. If Eurostars are expensive it's simply because they must be able to run in three different countries using three different types of power and sets of signals.

I don't know about ICE so I'll take your word for it that they are more comfortable and travel regularly in double formation. However the ETR500 is s small trainset and most of the time travels at less than 300km/h. Admittedly this limitation is imposed by the railways rather than the train.

ICE3s carry 383 passengers so 2 x ICE3s carry 766 passengers - slightly less than a single Eurostar set at 794.

said they were the best trainsets and they are.

Without an agreed definition of "best" this makes no sense. I personally find ICE's to be better, mostly looking from a passenger's point of view.

Eurostar has a space advantage over double TGV sets and Duplex. Double trainsets have no advantage in flexibility unless you are going to split the two halves of the train further down the route. This is not applicable for Eurostar routes.

That's true, but the TGV's make use of that flexibility. I don't think you can say Eurostar is better because it has more capacity, because TGV's were designed at the same capacity, only spread out through two trainsets instead of one. In what way is Eurostar's solution "better"?

Regarding the interior: it is indeed slightly better than TGV's, but still pretty cramped (also due to the restricted British loading gauge).

If Eurostars are expensive it's simply because they must be able to run in three different countries using three different types of power and sets of signals.

Well, TGV's can do that too. Though I have to admit that the Brittish system is more different from mainland Europe, so that partly explains the price difference. The safety rules for the Channel tunnel are also a cost raising factor.

I don't know about ICE so I'll take your word for it that they are more comfortable and travel regularly in double formation.

Check Mercurio (http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pix.html) for many interior pictures.

Eurostar is not the best trainset. It has not enough power. Of course it's a bit technical but Eurostar can't accelerate as well as a tgv duplex do.

Few technical comparaisons:
- TGV PSE Renové: 6450kw - 385 t - 300 km/h (a short numer of trainsaet called "tgv bourgogne is only 270 km/h): 17kw/t
- TGV Atlantique: 8800kw - 444 t - 300 km/h: 20kw/t
- TGV Réseau: 8800kw - 383 t - 320 km/h (Thalys PBA and PBKA are TGV R): 23kw/t
- TGV Duplex: 8800kw - 386t - 320 km/h: 23kw/t
- TMST Eurostar: 12200kw - 752 t - 300 km/h: 16 kw/t

Eurostar is even less powered than TGV PSE R. Thoose power are available with 25 000 v/AC only.

Hmm, also: I looked up the amount of leg room for some high speed trains (2nd class), and Eurostar turned out to be the train with the least amount of legroom:

Eurostar: 845 mm
TGV Atlantique: 850 mm
TGV Reseau: 905 mm
AVE: 905 mm
ICE2: 965 mm
ICE3: 971 mm
TGV Duplex: 1000 mm
ETR500: 1000 mm
ICE1: 1025 mm

@eomer
Yeah Eurostar has slightly slower acceleration but that's understandable given its size. Your kw/t measure doesn't take into the account the fact that Eurostar has relatively less drag per tonne because it's twice the length.

@Vertigo
Interesting data. Can you link me to the source?

@eomer
@Vertigo
Interesting data. Can you link me to the source?

I didn't have the sources myself, but I got this date from a person, Philip Guillemin who works for SNCF and is very knowledgable on virtually any aspect of European railways. I can PM you his contact details if you want to know what sources he got this from.

EDIT: the data for ICE seating seems to be confirmed by this website (http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ice/ice.html).

here some ice pics (again !!)

holandese ICE3 in cologne

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/ice3/portrait/ice3_koelnhbf01gro.jpg

DB ICE3 in cologne again

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/ice3/portrait/ice3nachtgro.jpg

1st class

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/ice3/verschied/ice3_grossr1klgro.jpg

2nd class

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/ice3/verschied/ice3_grossr2klgro.jpg

double sized ICEs
http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/ice3/strecke/ice3_rhein01gro.jpg
http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/nbsreport/ice3_willrott03gro.JPG


:grouphug:

I think ICE3 looks like the coolest HST in Europe! :cool:

Indeed. A sleek looking train, and quite a change from the former generations of ICE, which were kind of boring.

Maybe some of you have seen it already but anyway, this is what the next generation of TGVs should look like :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/trainfrancais/AGV/AGV_13.JPG

More pictures there http://perso.wanadoo.fr/trainfrancais/AGV.htm

One important thing to notice about ICE : it's wider than TGV (because the distance between 2 lines is bigger in Germany than in france), at least ICE1 and 2 were, so that helps to gain comfort too.

also, here's the "next" TGV we'll have in france : it's just a modified TGV duplex, with a eurostar legnth, it will carry 1124 people.
http://www.sncf.com/co/sncf_demain/tgvgp.htm

Alstom.....isn't that company going to be either bankrupt or completely sold in pieces to Siemens and other companies?

No, Alstom, the french government and EU found an agreement to save it. It will have to sell some activities I think , but i doubt TGV will be one of them.

Part of me is really annoyed that Alstom has been bailed out because it is without doubt an anti-competitive practice under EU law and i'm surprised the French Government got away with it. But there are so few quality EU train builders that I think it was probably a company worth saving, I just feel sorry for Siemens :)

hehehe, its so nice to look at your high-speed supertrains... compering them to the current estonian trains is like compering a stone and a spaceshuttle, our trains go like 50kmph... and the existing track is like..lol made out of wood or something, it takes an hour to cover 50km... its evil, and the interiour...whoa yours is like the Hyatt's presidental suite... we have dam wooden benches, equiped with smelly old men... aahhh i hate our trains... but... atleast they are cheap as hell.. u can go like 1000 km on them with bout 1buck... :P

Yes, the railways in the Baltics are not in the best state... really still Soviet style in everything. Even the relatively new trains on the Vilnius - Klaipeda route look very Soviet.

I sure hope rail transport will be modernized in the Baltics now they're inside the EU. A big problem is the different rail gauge; the Baltics all have Soviet rail gauge instead of the European (standard) rail gauge, which makes it very difficult to run through trains. There were plans to build a standard gauge rail line through the Baltics, the Rail Baltica project. Any news on that? :?

Russia don't have lines over 300kmph.

Fastest line between Moscow and St Petersburg. Er-200 achieve 200kmph and driving between cities 4 hours.

Some nice shots of fast trains
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=1586
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=3150
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=2995


Some nice shots of suburban trains
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=12655
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=13020
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=10967
http://www.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=6402


there was high speed project between Moscow and St. Petersburg, but it was cancelled in begin of 2003, because train was not achieve planed speed in 350kmph.
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-9.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-8.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-6.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-5.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-4.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-3.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-2.jpg
http://www.vsm.ru/images/news/sokol-trials-1.jpg


After, in begin of 2004, they began to planning meglev.

So Russia still not have very fast trains. But average speed of passanger trains in 2005 will reach 160kmph.

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/nbsreport/ice3_willrott03gro.JPG

Wow, thats what I call ultimate infrastructur!

No...."ultimate" would be if you could see a plane taking off in that pic;)

Though, pretty close.

@coth: too bad the high speed project was cancelled, it was a good looking high speed train. But who needs high speed trains if you have world famous railways like the Transsib? ;)

Good to see new and modern suburban trains are entering service. The older types of suburban trains were pretty crappy...

No...."ultimate" would be if you could see a plane taking off in that pic;)

Though, pretty close.

This highway and high speed track are passing the RheinMain Airport in Frankfurt. Beside that there is a parralel freeway and some bridgeovers. Quiet impressive!

http://www.hl-birmas.de/root_luftbild/ICEBAH~1.JPG
this year the construction of the Airrailcenter should start. It will be built right on the already existing ICE-train station.
http://www.analog-perspektiven.de/details_/Airrail/XAirrail.JPG

Maybe some of you have seen it already but anyway, this is what the next generation of TGVs should look like :

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/trainfrancais/AGV/AGV_13.JPG

More pictures there http://perso.wanadoo.fr/trainfrancais/AGV.htm

One important thing to notice about ICE : it's wider than TGV (because the distance between 2 lines is bigger in Germany than in france), at least ICE1 and 2 were, so that helps to gain comfort too.

also, here's the "next" TGV we'll have in france : it's just a modified TGV duplex, with a eurostar legnth, it will carry 1124 people.
http://www.sncf.com/co/sncf_demain/tgvgp.htmThat will be a machine!! :yes:

Here's an artist impression for some new Dutch / Belgian high speed trains:

http://www.highspeedalliance.nl/gfx/V250-ext-blauw.gif

They will be used on the new high speed line Amsterdam - Rotterdam - Antwerp. The trains will be used for relatively short distances: both Belgian and Dutch domestic trains (for example Amsterdam to Breda) and "local" cross border services. The long distance services to Paris will remain to be run by Thalys TGV trains.

Because the distances are short, the top speed is relatively low: 250 km/h. Still an afwul lot faster than regular trains... :)

The trains were designed by the Italian designer company Pininfarina, who also designed some Italian high speed trains. They will also be built in Italy, by AnsaldoBreda.

TGV duplex "classic" =516 passengers
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/frenchtgv/images/french5.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~pschokk/tgv/duplex/229Sens.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~pschokk/tgv/duplex/213ParisGdLyon2.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~pschokk/tgv/duplex/206ParisGdLyon.jpg

TGV duplex "double" =1024 passengers
http://www.nimbus-network.org.uk/tgv/images/full/duplex/image127.jpg
http://www.nimbus-network.org.uk/tgv/images/full/duplex/image128.jpg
http://www.nimbus-network.org.uk/tgv/images/full/duplex/image183.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~pschokk/tgv/duplex/228Bellechaume.jpg
http://home.hetnet.nl/~pschokk/tgv/duplex/211Sens.jpg
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/taiwan/images/taiwan2.jpg

Here's an artist impression for some new Dutch / Belgian high speed trains:

http://www.highspeedalliance.nl/gfx/V250-ext-blauw.gif

They will be used on the new high speed line Amsterdam - Rotterdam - Antwerp. The trains will be used for relatively short distances: both Belgian and Dutch domestic trains (for example Amsterdam to Breda) and "local" cross border services. The long distance services to Paris will remain to be run by Thalys TGV trains.

Because the distances are short, the top speed is relatively low: 250 km/h. Still an afwul lot faster than regular trains... :)

The trains were designed by the Italian designer company Pininfarina, who also designed some Italian high speed trains. They will also be built in Italy, by AnsaldoBreda.

This means that Amsterdam will be the only train station in the world where trains of the three largest high speed train manufacturers can be seen (Alstom (TGV), Siemens (ICE) and AnsaldoBreda).

What is with this transition towards these 'duck' trains with car like 'bonnets'. I know it is to do with aerodynamics but they do look ugly IMO.

Do you know something about the European rail network "fusion" at 2007. I think, by that time it should be possible (theoreticaly) to travel with TGV or ICE from Berlin via Paris to Madrid without to change train :runaway: Anyway, i know currently there are ICE tests in Belgium but there is a problem with Belgian government, they are not willing to give more time for testing of ICE.s ??

What about a MagLev system thoughout Europe?

Do you know something about the European rail network "fusion" at 2007. I think, by that time it should be possible (theoreticaly) to travel with TGV or ICE from Berlin via Paris to Madrid without to change train Anyway, i know currently there are ICE tests in Belgium but there is a problem with Belgian government, they are not willing to give more time for testing of ICE.s ??

I suppose Berlin to Paris would probably be possible by a through train in 2007. There already has been an ICE running test rides on the French high speed lines, so I guess they will be allowed by then. I don't know if there is really going to be a direct service.

Paris - Madrid is a different story, because of the different railways gauges in France (standard) and Spain (broad). The new Spanish high speed lines are also standard gauge, but there's still a "gap" between Perpignan and Barcelona. A new line will be constructed there, but I don't think it will be finished by 2007.

BTW, though you can already reach Perpignan by TGV, a major part of this route is not a high speed line yet.

@Taipei101: not much plans for MagLev's at this moment. The only one seriously under consideration, besides some short airport lines, is the line Amsterdam - Groningen.

^ I would love to see the Frankfurt to Paris ICE a reality. It could even depart from Mainz if needed (for cost measures) to service the people from the train originating further north in say Köln or the Rhein Ruhr. Mainz is only 30 minutes from Frankfurt, so would not be too bad. Still a direct Frankfurt to Paris link would be quite successful I would think (A 5million metro to a 12million metro is a good market)

How long would Frankfurt to Paris take by TGV/ICE. I bet it would be a popular service with business people. Most modern trains will offer internet access and the acommodation is spacious enough to offer plenty of room to do some work. Power points for laptops etc are sometimes available too. It seems less hassle to catch a train rather than a plane also. Surely a lucrative prospect?

hmm i'm not sure but i think Paris Frankfurt would take less than 4 hours.

What I would really love to see is ICE and TGV sharing a similar color scheme special for that service. Kinda like Eurostar and Thalys which both have their own paint scheme, except it would be for Paris-Frankfurt link (they'll call it Rhealys I think).
Both trainsets with the same colors... that would be great. :D

In Spain you'll both see both TGV- and ICE-trains in the same colour scheme. (Ok, not exactly TGV and ICE, but Alstom- and Siemens-built high speed trains with a strong recemblance to TGV and ICE)

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ave/ave-3.jpg

http://www.hochgeschwindigkeitszuege.com/spain/ave_s_103_zug2_gr.jpg

How long would Frankfurt to Paris take by TGV/ICE. I bet it would be a popular service with business people. Most modern trains will offer internet access and the acommodation is spacious enough to offer plenty of room to do some work. Power points for laptops etc are sometimes available too. It seems less hassle to catch a train rather than a plane also. Surely a lucrative prospect?
I'd say it would be around 3 hours.

You can currently do the trip by direct train in 6 hours. That stops at quite a few stations and chugs along at a respectable speed, but certainly not in the high speed catagory. Halving it would be quite possible, possibly with only three stops in between, Frankfurt airport, Strasbourg, then CDG airport, before Paris central.

It would be popular, both are important business cities, with large metro populations, both are major transport hubs (rail and air). The only problem is that Frankfurt is not on the tourist network (and the way it's going will probably never be), so tourist traffic will only really be in one direction.

Still, it should be quite viable. As France is building a high speed link to Strasbourg, then the only thing needed in infrastructure would be Germany to extend their ICE to strasbourg from their current network.

damn that would be nice.

Do you know something about the European rail network "fusion" at 2007. I think, by that time it should be possible (theoreticaly) to travel with TGV or ICE from Berlin via Paris to Madrid without to change train :runaway: Anyway, i know currently there are ICE tests in Belgium but there is a problem with Belgian government, they are not willing to give more time for testing of ICE.s ??

Last Saturday I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Brussels (I just went to Cologne)! So there shouldn't be a problem with ICE's in Belgium.

Last Saturday I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Brussels (I just went to Cologne)! So there shouldn't be a problem with ICE's in Belgium

The problem isn't Belgium, the problem is Belgian and French high speed lines. ;) They're still not allowed on them and still use the classic line to Brussels.

i recently downloaded TGV route for MSTS...

http://www.mstsnl.net/downloads/rt/fr/lgv.html
http://www.mstsnl.com/msts.nl/images/lgvtgvroutes.gif
http://www.mstsnl.com/msts.nl/images/lgvmedv2.gif

What about a MagLev system thoughout Europe?

That would horribly expensive, at least in the near future. The world's first maglev line in Shanghai that opened last year cost around one billion euros. The track is only 30 kilometers long from the city to the Shanghai international airport. It's not a very cost effective just yet.

Maglev are good for links with no existing infrastructure. I doubt we'll ever see regular maglev lines in europe. It would be silly.

The ICE3 came in France for a while, I know, I've seen it in my city's station :D
It was rather funny, I was waiting in cold for my train and suddenly a ICE3 passed in front of me... :)
They made tests on high speed lines, I supposed it's been approved to go on french lines by now...

@Vertigo you're right , I kinda forgot about AVEs, but anyway, It wouldn't have the same flavour to see them operated by DB and SNCF on a shared service. :)

The track is only 30 kilometers long from the city to the Shanghai international airport. It's not a very cost effective just yet.

It runs nearly with no passengers (perhaps 10 passengers in a train for 400 or so). And it is probably not attractive enough cause it does not really connect the airport with the city centre but only with a subway station on the edge of the inner city.

This means that Amsterdam will be the only train station in the world where trains of the three largest high speed train manufacturers can be seen (Alstom (TGV), Siemens (ICE) and AnsaldoBreda).

:applause: :okay: :naughty: :hammer:

Maybe Amsterdam will see Maglev trains as well in the future, as the Dutch government is still considering building a Maglev line that would connect Amsterdam to the northern city of Groningen. Personally I prefer a normal high speed line. It's cheaper and could be extended to Hamburg and Berlin in the future.

Btw, what happened to the proposed Maglev lines in Germany? I thought a Ruhr-line and a line between Munich and its airport were approved projects.

I think the Munich line is going ahead. The "commuter maglev" proposed for the Rhein-Ruhr area has been cancelled.

i thought the Thalys train between Paris, brussels, and Amsterdam was also going to kholn and Frankfurt already ?

For kolhn i'm pretty sure but i don't know the time between paris and Kholn. Does anyone knows how many departure from paris to Kholn dayly and reverse ? (sorry for my speling of kolhn , I never know where to put the H) :)

Anyway i think it's time for ICE trains to be able to run in France regularly and the same for TGVs in Germany...

Realys high speed services will open in 2007 between Paris and Germany:
- Paris-Manheim-Frankfurt by ICE3 trainset (Siemens)
- Paris-Stuttgart-Munchen with TGV trainset (Alstom)

Unfortunatly, ICE3 won't be allowed to stop in Metz....

Realys high speed services will open in 2007 between Paris and Germany:
- Paris-Manheim-Frankfurt by ICE3 trainset (Siemens)
- Paris-Stuttgart-Munchen with TGV trainset (Alstom)

Unfortunatly, ICE3 won't be allowed to stop in Metz....

wonderful... the same year Frankfurt get's it's first food court.

Any idea how long the Paris-Frankfurt service may take?

wonderful... the same year Frankfurt get's it's first food court.

Any idea how long the Paris-Frankfurt service may take?

:lol:

What food court do you mean?????
Is there a food court planed in the FrankfurtHochVier Mall?

^^^^ ok a food court is not THAT exceptionnal !! why 2007 ?
Does it take soooooo long to plan a build a restaurant ? Or maybe will it be the world's largest food court ?

^^^^ ok a food court is not THAT exceptionnal !! why 2007 ?
Does it take soooooo long to plan a build a restaurant ? Or maybe will it be the world's largest food court ?

We are not talking about a restaurant, its a food court. And Frankfurt seems to be the only city in the developed world without a food court!
Actualy I have no idea what exactly a food court is!

However, in 2007 we get this wonder of modern world here in Frankfurt! :banana:

:lol:

What food court do you mean?????
Is there a food court planed in the FrankfurtHochVier Mall?

so I was told :cheers:

The one I'm waiting for is the 350km/h (217mph) line between Madrid and Barcelona - completes next year I believe. I won't go back to Spain until I can ride it! :yes:

Whats the distance between Madrid & Barca?

/\ In a straight line it's 502km:
http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm

The new railway line will be routed via Lerida and is 643km according to this site:
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/hsr/af.htm

The rail travel time between the two cities will be reduced from 6.5 hours to 2.5 hours. The line will run both Siemens ICE3 derivatives and Spain's TGV derived Talgo 350 at the 350km/h speed - the fastest in the world (current HSR lines in Europe and Japan run at 300km/h). :)

Are there any plans to build a high speed line between porto and lisboa?

We are not talking about a restaurant, its a food court. And Frankfurt seems to be the only city in the developed world without a food court! Actualy I have no idea what exactly a food court is!


Ok so let me tell you: a food court is nothing more than a place when you have some booths selling food from different types (asian, mexican, MCDonald's, spanish etc...). You buy your food, then you take your plate and have a seat in the common room : so in other words it is a RESTAURANT !!

usually the food there is cheap. So when some claim that FFURT will get "his" food-coort in 2007, i'm like :what's the big deal about that !
It's like being excited because a Mcdonald's restaurant is about to open in your city...a bit weird...

Now if u tell me that FFURT will be at the crossroads of all european High speed trains, THAT is an exciting story ! but the food court stuff...well...

(sorry for my speling of kolhn , I never know where to put the H) :)

There is no H in Köln (in english: Cologne). ;)

ok thanx, in french it's cologne too...and we've got this great fragrance for babies and kids in France which has been popular for decades. It is called "eau de Cologne" which means "water of cologne". I really don't know why they give this light perfume the name of this german city...

Ok so let me tell you: a food court is nothing more than a place when you have some booths selling food from different types (asian, mexican, MCDonald's, spanish etc...). You buy your food, then you take your plate and have a seat in the common room : so in other words it is a RESTAURANT !!

usually the food there is cheap. So when some claim that FFURT will get "his" food-coort in 2007, i'm like :what's the big deal about that !
It's like being excited because a Mcdonald's restaurant is about to open in your city...a bit weird...

Now if u tell me that FFURT will be at the crossroads of all european High speed trains, THAT is an exciting story ! but the food court stuff...well...

That's the whole point. It's nothing special, but very handy. Food courts mean when you feel like having a lunch with someone else, you can each choose the resturant and style of food you like, but still sit together. So if your friend wanted a silly burger from McDonalds, but you prefered to eat something a bit tastier like a crispy Thai Duck and noodles, you can still have lunch together.

It's called choice, and it's nice to have.

The problem is that Germans really don't like to have too much choice, which is why this has never taken off here yet. But attitudes are changing and quite frankly that's a good thing.

Anyway, it's all off topic, but still I'm glad in 2007 I can eat lunch with a friend and not have to eat the same thing as they do.

I really don't know why they give this light perfume the name of this german city...

http://www.arch-ant.bham.ac.uk/bufau/bull_ring_archive/4711.jpg
ECHT KÖLNISCH WASSER (original eau de cologne). It is from cologne. If it would have been invented in Brussels, it would be called "eau de brussels". ;)

^^^^ok cooool ! i love that fragrance !

HIGH SPEED TRAIN LINE BRUSSELS-AMSTERDAM CONSTRUCTION PICTURES.

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2410.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2514.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2421.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2452.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/02.03.103_15.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/lucht_a4_hoogmade.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/02.03.102_5.jpg


:)

Blu - Operative lines
Green - Under construction
Yellow - Project Approved
http://www.tav.it/img/italia_perweb.jpg

HIGH VELOCITY TRAINS IN ITALY:

operative: Firenze - Roma (the European first line at high velocity, built in the 1978); 253 km, max velocity <300 Km/h

Under construction:

Roma - Napoli
204 km; at today built 186 km; Higher speed > 300Km/h
http://www.tav.it/img/ROMA-NAPOLI(4).jpg
today 1h45' - end of work 1h05'

Torino - Milano
125 km; at today built 70 km; Higher speed > 300Km/h
today 1h30' - end of work 50'
http://www.tav.it/img/torino-milano(6)(1).jpg

Milano - Bologna
182 Km (73 in Tunnel); at today 90 km; Higher speed > 300Km/h
http://www.tav.it/img/MILANO-BOLOGNA(2).jpg
today 1h42' - end of work 60'

Bologna - Firenze
78.5 km (73.3 in tunnel); at today 60 km; Higher speed > 300Km/h
http://www.tav.it/img/BOLOGNA-FIRENZEgrande.jpg
today 1h35' - end of work 30'

Line Milano-Roma at the end of the work 3h00'
today minimum 4h30'

PROJECT APPROVED:

Milano - Genova
54 km, 36 in tunnel.

Milano - Verona
112 km - opening of the work in the next 3 months.

Verona - Padova - Venezia/Mestre
100.5 km

Very impressive, HSL Ams-Brux, there is to see it is very simmilar to the HSL Cologne-FFM because of no stones under gauges (there is a concrete) it is very important for HSLs because the stones can cause very serious damages to the train by the speed of 300-350 kmph.

Anyway, here a pic of HSL Cologne-FFM where is clearly to see there aren't stones under gauges:

http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/sfs/lahntb01gro.jpg
http://www.ice-fanpage.de/bilder/sfs/dickheckt01gro.jpg

but, unfortunately, that is the once HSL line in Germany with concrete under gauges :sleepy:

Very impressive, HSL Ams-Brux, there is to see it is very simmilar to the HSL Cologne-FFM because of no stones under gauges (there is a concrete) it is very important for HSLs because the stones can cause very serious damages to the train by the speed of 300-350 kmph.

Anyway, here a pic of HSL Cologne-FFM where is clearly to see there aren't stones under gauges:

but, unfortunately, that is the once HSL line in Germany with concrete under gauges :sleepy:Yeah, damage by stone was main reason to cancel high speed project between Moscow and St. Petersburg. Concrete is impossible in Russian climate...

Yeah, damage by stone was main reason to cancel high speed project between Moscow and St. Petersburg. Concrete is impossible in Russian climate...

But you can use bricks instead of stones, it doesn't fly easy in the air like ordinary stone :D

anyway, why not ??

I thought loads of high speed lines have stones?

Yes, they do. But they damage high speed trains. Check any TGV train; they all have damage at the lower side of the train. It costs a lot of money for maintenance. Having concrete under the tracks reduces the need of mainetance for both track and train.

Yes, they do. But they damage high speed trains. Check any TGV train; they all have damage at the lower side of the train. It costs a lot of money for maintenance. Having concrete under the tracks reduces the need of mainetance for both track and train.

yes, i can havily imagine how the german ICE would look at the full speed on a TGV line :runaway: . I ve feeling the TGV looks like a heavy-class tank train in comparisson to the "lighty speedy" ICE (cause of outside construction)

ICE3 "nose" an the command table
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/electric/emu/ICE/ICE-3/Wuerzburg/wuerzburg2000_3.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/nl/electric/emu/ICE/ICE3cab2.jpg

the same by the TGV

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/fr/electric/emu/TGV/Sud-Est_modernized/Paris/TGVSE112-2.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/fr/electric/emu/TGV/Sud-Est_modernized/cab%2Binterior/PB240035.jpg

but i envy frenchs to very wide built HSL network :)

I agree that the ICE3 trainset is btter looking than the TGV ones. The colour scheme on ICE3 are a bit muted though. In the UK newer trains have to have doors that are coloured/patterned different to the rest of the body to help visually impared people see them. However ICE3 looks cooler in the all-in-one colour scheme.

Guys, just inetersting to make statistic about high speed trains by max cruise speed.
Acela on line allowed 200kmph.
Er200 - 200kmph
What about TGV lines, Eurostar line, ICE lines? As I know on TGV lines in France allowed max in 300kmph.

I agree that the ICE3 trainset is btter looking than the TGV ones. The colour scheme on ICE3 are a bit muted though. In the UK newer trains have to have doors that are coloured/patterned different to the rest of the body to help visually impared people see them. However ICE3 looks cooler in the all-in-one colour scheme.

All german trains are divided in two large groups: fast trains, they all are coloured in white-red scheme ant that are:

IC (InterCity trains, they stop only in important cities, very long distance from start to the end station, example hamburg-frankfurt)
ICE (InterCityExpress, stop only in very important and large cities, some distances are extremely long example: Essen-Vienna c.a. 1000 km )

In other group are Regional and Suburb trains, they all are coloured with red-white scheme:

S-Bahn(stadtbahn, it "cruises" only in big metro regions like in ruhr-area, rhein-main area, berlin... between city parts, the distance depends of the size of metro area, it stops at the every station)
RB (RegionalBahn, stop at every station, but relativ long distance)
RE (RegionalExpress, stop at every 3-4d station, long distance in average 200-300 km)

here pics of some color schemes:

Ordinary IC

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/IC%2BIR/Bpmbdzf/pic66.jpg

S-Bahn
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/S-Bahn/DB_Steuerwagen.jpg

RE (most of RE.s are double deck trains)
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/double_deck/DBpbzfa765/030315002.jpg

RB (a lot of RB.s are damn, damn old, but at the same time DAMN COMFORTABLE, there are unluckily a lot of new rb.s who 95% looks like these here)
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/regional/PumA-Modus/wuerzburg2000_1.jpg


and, special, the special business hiper expensive comfortable train "Metropolitan" (Modified IC who has a power of ICE 2) who travels only between Hamburg-Essen-Düsseldorf-Cologne is the once train in Germany having a silver color scheme :) :
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/Metropolitan/db_metropolitan_0002.jpg

interrior is :drool:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/de/car/Metropolitan/met_int1.jpg

enjoy.. :)

S-Bahn(stadtbahn, it "cruises" only in big metro regions like in ruhr-area, rhein-main area, berlin... between city parts, the distance depends of the size of metro area, it stops at the every station)

S-Bahn stand for Schnellbahn!

Am i not right?

Great News
Project of high speed rail Moscow-Tver-Great Novgorod-St. Petersburg is not cancelled. Now planed to built complex. High speed rail with freeway.

I don't know what trains will be in service... maybe it will be one of European's trains, like TGV... Russia's Sokol was cancelled and declared as a 'mistake in price of $450mln'...

18.06.2004
http://www.rzd-partner.ru/news/index.php?action=view&st=1087551249&id=10

aha, I found this one
dated by 22.06.2004

maybe it will be japanese bullet trains
http://www.gzt.ru/rub.gzt?id=64050000000020695

and one more interesting stuff

RZD (Russian RailRoads) can buy Italian "Pendolino" trains for high speed route between St. Petersburg and Helsinki

18.06.2004
http://www.rzd-partner.ru/news/index.php?action=view&st=1087545137&id=8

@Nephasto: yes, S-Bahn means Schnellbahn (urban trains), while Stadtbahn is more like light rail. But the difference is sometimes hard to make; in Karlsruhe the Stadtbahn is also an S-Bahn, because those light rail vehicles can also run on mainline tracks.

@coth: good to hear about those developments. I head before about Pendolino's for the StP - Helsinki route. Quite logical, because the Finnish railways already operate Pendolino trains. But besides new trains they also need to speed up border procedures - not the trains spend ages standing still at the border. :bash:

Guys, just inetersting to make statistic about high speed trains by max cruise speed. Acela on line allowed 200kmph. Er200 - 200kmph What about TGV lines, Eurostar line, ICE lines? As I know on TGV lines in France allowed max in 300kmph.

Acela actually runs 240 km/h, but only on a very short stretch. On most of it's route, it's 200 km/h (or slower on some major parts).

TGV indeed runs 300 km/h (only on high speed lines of course, on other lines 200 km/h or slower). The same is true for Eurostar, that can now run all the way from London to Brussels or Paris at 300 km/h, save for the Channel tunnel and a short passage near Lille.

ICE trains run 300 on the Frankfurt - Cologne high speed line and somewhat slower on other high speed lines (I think about 270 or something like that). Germany also has quite a lot of regular lines that are upgraded to 200 km/h running, both for ICE and for IC trains.

All german trains are divided in two large groups: fast trains, they all are coloured in white-red scheme ant that are:

IC (InterCity trains, they stop only in important cities, very long distance from start to the end station, example hamburg-frankfurt)
ICE (InterCityExpress, stop only in very important and large cities, some distances are extremely long example: Essen-Vienna c.a. 1000 km )


Thats not completly true.

The ICE has some stops between the big cities.
On the track from Frankfurt to Cologne (ca 180km) the is one stop in the middle and the train from Hamburg to Frankfurt (ca 450 km) has alot of stops.
(Hamburg-Hanover-Kassel-Frankfurt-Darmstadt-Stuttgart...)

And I wouldn't call Hanover and Kassel extremly important cities.

@coth: good to hear about those developments. I head before about Pendolino's for the StP - Helsinki route. Quite logical, because the Finnish railways already operate Pendolino trains. But besides new trains they also need to speed up border procedures - not the trains spend ages standing still at the border. :bash: I think customhouses may be in central stations of both cities and train will pass border without stop... Anyway... border between Russia and Finland is very transparent...

How long will it take to travel from Helsinki to St. Petersburg with the pendolino trains?

As I know 3 hours. Present trains driving 5,5 hours.

Cost of reconstruction of network priced in 41bln p. - it is about $1,41bln or 1,17bln euro.
Reconstruction planed to finished in 2007.

Interesting stat : The TGV med, that recently celebrated its 3rd anniversary, carried 57 million passengers in 3 years.

shit :( , i don't like this train

http://www.highspeedalliance.nl/gfx/V250-ext-blauw.gif

Interesting stat : The TGV med, that recently celebrated its 3rd anniversary, carried 57 million passengers in 3 years.
Only 57 mln? looks not so populary...

Oh, found this one!

DMUs, which was in service between Leningrad (Saint Petersburg) and Moscow in 50's
Not so fast, but looks very cool. Maximum speed on line was 104kmph.

http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp06.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp07.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp08.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp01.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp02.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp03.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp10.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp09.jpg
http://www.home.ru/funiculars/dp04.jpg


present condition
http://fototrans.narod.ru/p30/p-30-12a.html

Wonderful design indeed!

Only 57 mln? looks not so populary...

Well, eurostar carries 7 millions a year, and Thalys about 6 millions.

Who knows something about the Rhein-Rhône project ?

Who knows something about the Rhein-Rhône project ?

This TGV line should be the next line to be built : construction should start next year. Currently land fields are being bought.

This line has 3 phases and looks like a "star". the goal is to connect Germany with Lyon and also Basel with Paris thru Dijon. Here are some maps :

The first phase consist in :
http://www.ass-tgv-rhin-rhone.net/data/pictures/ITGV748ER1/Desserte-de-l-ALLEMAGNE-DU-SUD.gif

The 3 phases (yellow, green and red lines):
http://www.ass-tgv-rhin-rhone.net/data/pictures/IT4SX4HX22/Graphe-TGV-Nov-F.gif

http://www.ass-tgv-rhin-rhone.net/data/pictures/ITB4323S1Q/Europe-TGV-tableau-Francais.gif

Sources :http://www.ass-tgv-rhin-rhone.net

This line should be built in 2007-2008 (?)

This TGV line should be the next line to be built : construction should start next year.

Right but not exactly: only the Estern branch will open in 2010. The southern branch is not yet defined (Dôle-Macon or Dôle-Bourg ?) and the western branch is difficult to define too.
I hope about a Northern branch (Dijon-Nancy-Luxembourg) in the futur...

WOW, that old soviet train looks so good and surreal, unbelieavable


@line rhin-rhone

Only TGV.s should pass that line or it can do another trains too like ICE.s or AVE.s ?? The travel-time difference are drammaticaly especially FFM-Barcelone, now 16 hours after build of line 8 hours ! :D

WOW, that old soviet train looks so good and surreal, unbelieavable


@line rhin-rhone

Only TGV.s should pass that line or it can do another trains too like ICE.s or AVE.s ?? The travel-time difference are drammaticaly especially FFM-Barcelone, now 16 hours after build of line 8 hours ! :D

I know that at least ICEs will.

Tests with Greman ICEs are currently running on the French TGV line...
And AVEs are using TGV (or ICE) technologies so they probably will!

why discussion stopped?

Let's kick it back to life then ;)

For the R/R project : who is paying for the costs ? The French or the EU ?

Let's kick it back to life then ;)

For the R/R project : who is paying for the costs ? The French or the EU ?

Both but the EU will pay only a small percentage ( around 5 %). More details about this project (official website for all rail projects in France):RFF website (http://www.rff.fr/Pages/accueil.asp?lg=en)
and for the R/R project : http://www.rff.fr/pages/projets/fiche_projet.asp?code=482&lg=en

maglev? cost problems? scrap the wasteful cap and that would release 40 billion euros a year. you could get an intercontinental maglev system in place in 10 years for about 400 billion euros. Imagine with 350-400 mph trains you could get all over europe in no time.

Or you could put the ex-CAP money into building up basic infrastructure in Eastern Europe (in all prespective memberstates) and as 3rd world aid to make Africa more prosperous.
Tho some of all that moneyt should go to support inter-state links within the EU (be they bridges, tunnels, freeways or rail).

HIGH SPEED TRAIN LINE BRUSSELS-AMSTERDAM CONSTRUCTION PICTURES.

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2410.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2514.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2421.jpg

http://www.ou.nl/open/hon/hsl2452.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/02.03.103_15.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/lucht_a4_hoogmade.jpg

http://www.swart-amsterdam.nl/allelucht/Infrastructuur/HSL/image/02.03.102_5.jpg


:)When will this be completed?

Where was the last picture taken ?

What is the story of a networkextension between Berlin and Warszawa ?

@Grumpy: the last picture is in Barendrecht. 9 tracks will cross this town, including the HSL and the Betuweroute freight line. To reduce noise a large part of the railway will be covered inside that concrete box you see on the pic.

Another Q : I remember the famous "Frankfurt21" project presented years ago.
What happened in between outside a new roof for the Hbf ?

Another Q : I remember the famous "Frankfurt21" project presented years ago.
What happened in between outside a new roof for the Hbf ?

Nothing really, they havn't even finished the reclaimed land behind the messe from the old freight tracks. 4years after clearing, most of the land is still empty where a large shopping and entertainment center was planned.

Does anybody have some info on that new train line which is leading from Liege to Cologne?

LOL... Franfurt-Barcelona only 8 hours, this is fantastic :cheers:

These are the passengers of the line madrid-sevilla

http://tu.auna.es/personal/8/8/aquarius/imagenes/album/viajeros%20madridsevilla.JPG




http://tu.auna.es/personal/8/8/aquarius/imagenes/album/ave%20madrid%20sevilla.JPG

AVE Córdoba-Málaga:

total length 170.2 km
design speed 300-350 km
number of bridges 33 (12 kilómetros)
number of tunnels 10 (19 kilómetros)
length of newly built track 155.9 km

Times: now/ in the future

Cordoba-Málaga: 2h8min/45m
Madrid-Málaga: 4h10min/2h25min
Barcelona-Málaga: 12h30min/5h20min


Images for Arroyo Espinazo Viaduct:

http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00253.jpg



Images for Viaduct Arroyo Ancor

http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00250.jpg


http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00114.jpg

http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00285.jpg

http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00266.jpg

Sourche: www.structurae.net

what is this? construction of water channel?
http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00114.jpg

what is this? construction of water channel?
http://www.structurae.net/photos/945/dsc00114.jpg

is the platform for the railway...:D

Any news from eastern Europe ??

Does anybody have some info on that new train line which is leading from Liege to Cologne?

There isa new line U/C from Liège to the German border(SW of AC) with a huge tunnel U/C at Soumagne.
Near Chenée the line will merge with the existing line 36 going to Eupen.

I only have info on broschures from the belgian railways on paper :(

@ aquarius ,
In maps published by the catalan ICC the lines going north from Barcelona are drawn until east of Granollers.
Where will the HSL run from there until Perpignan ?

Well for Britain this is as close to high speed as we are likely to get for a while. This week Virgin trains unveiled its new timetable where a new fleet of Pendolino trains will use tilt technology to reduce journey times and increase capacity on one of the UK's busiest rail routes up the West Coast. The trains will be able to reach speeds of up to 125mph. Here's the story:

Travelling at full tilt
By Nick Higham
BBC correspondent on board the new Pendolino tilting train

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40095000/jpg/_40095770_trainnew.jpg

It was an oddly old-fashioned ceremony for a 21st century railway.

The band of the Grenadier Guards played. The Lord Mayor of London arrived to name the new £11m Pendolino tilting train City of London.
A procession of red-jacketed Virgin train staff carried union jacks.

And a shower of ticker tape fell from the roof of platform 16 at Euston as the pride of the Virgin fleet prepared to set a new record time for the journey from London to Manchester.

Virgin's founder Sir Richard Branson called it a milestone in the modernisation of the route from London to Birmingham, Manchester and Glasgow.

Even the prime minister was there - a sign that things may at last be getting better for Britain's troubled railways.


The ride was smooth although the waiters in first class struggled to pour out cups of tea and coffee
Nick Higham

Tony Blair would hardly risk his own credibility in support of the West Coast Main Line if he was not convinced that the worst was over for one of the most expensive and controversial investment projects in Britain.
In 1995, when the project to modernise the line first got the go-ahead, it was budgeted to cost £1.5bn. By 2002 the cost had risen to £9.8bn, with fears it could hit £13bn.

Since then, Network Rail, the Strategic Rail Authority and the Rail Regulator have reduced it to £7.6bn - although at the expense of postponing work.

Too complex

Nevertheless, the project remains horrendously expensive: £12.8m per mile compared with £10.5m a mile to build the new line through Kent for the Channel Tunnel Rail Link.

And it will not deliver the 140mph speeds originally promised.

The complexity of the task is partly to blame. The line is the third busiest trunk railway in Europe, carrying a mix of Intercity, local, freight and cross-country trains.


It is old - the section from London to Birmingham was one of the first railways and was last updated in the 1960s.

But today's special train is a sign that the first part of the scheme has now been completed - well, nearly.

It is possible to run trains at 125miles an hour, for at least part of the way to Manchester, cutting the fastest regular journey time from 2hr 41min, to 2hr 6min.

The run was billed as a chance to show what the new trains are capable of, and to show off the tilting mechanism which allows them to take the tight turns on 19th century railways at high speeds.

The journey was as fast and painless as Virgin could have hoped.

Within eight minutes of leaving Euston the train had reached 125mph and the tilting mechanism was engaged.

Talented toilet

The ride was smooth, by the standards of most intercity trains, although the waiters in first class struggled to pour out cups of tea and coffee without spilling them.

The tilt is undetectable to passengers. Only when you happen to look out of the window, and see an unexpected expanse of sky, a bit like a plane banking, do you realise the tilt has been engaged.

The new trains have some excellent features.


The seat in the toilet stays up of its own accord for instance, no matter how bumpy the ride.

But the carriages are narrower than the old mark III trains they replace because they taper towards the roof to allow for the tilt.

Around 57 minutes out of Euston, we were told the train had covered 100 miles at an average speed of 108mph - travelling at full tilt, you might say - but after that the journey slowed markedly.

Much work remains to be done on the line through the Trent Valley and around Rugby Stafford and Stoke.

But we made it to Manchester ahead of schedule in an hour and 53 minutes.

Teething troubles

Alas, on my return journey, it was a different story. The carriages due to form the 1527 to London Euston were already at the opposite platform at Manchester Piccadilly when the record-breaking special pulled in shortly after 1330.

Unfortunately they were still there at 1537. And at 1547.

Although this too was one of the new Pendolinos, the brakes had refused to unlock and the windscreen wiper was not working. Nor was the air conditioning in some of the carriages.

We left more than 20 minutes late and were warned of a further possible delay at Macclesfield, where a fitter was waiting to fix some of the problems.

Perhaps this was what Sir Richard Branson was referring to as he saw the special off at Euston, warning us to expect three months of teething troubles.

For the resigned passengers on the delayed 1527, it was what they had come to expect of one of the most accident prone lines on Britain's notoriously accident prone railway.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40092000/jpg/_40092600_traincanal_203.jpg

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk/3674574.stm

Published: 2004/09/20 20:17:23 GMT

© BBC MMIV


Other related stories:
Tilting Train Breaks Speed Record (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3671680.stm)
Britains First Attempt at Tilt: The Revolutionary Advanced Passenger Train (APT) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1695589.stm)

APT:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1695000/images/_1695589_apt300.jpg

I made a massive thread on the CTRL HSR connection into London St Pancras

Part II is here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=102644

Part I can be found via a link at the beginning of Part II.

Lots of pics though :yes:

Another update once again for the CTRL Phase II development (Channel Tunnel Rail Link).







Silo curve viaduct linking St Pancras station to the West Coast Main Line via the North London Line
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5081

CTRL viaduct from London West Portal to West Coast Main Line via North London Line - viewed from Midland Main Line bridge area
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5082

Merging viaducts to the West Coast Main Line via the North London Line - viewed from Midland Main Line bridge area
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5080

View from west of site of viaduct construction
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5086

Construction of foundations for Forward Incident Control Point (F.I.C.P.) at CTRL East Coast Main Line bridge
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5085

Thames Link tunnel - north bore construction under way
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5084

View westward from London West portal showing the (soon to be demolished) York Way viaduct
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5083

Thameslink box works outside St Pancras station
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5007

Thameslink box works outside St Pancras station
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5006

Thameslink box works outside St Pancras station
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5008

Completed Thames tunnel - lighting installed
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5038

Seccardo nozzle for tunnel ventilation (Thames tunnel)
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5037

A set of jet fans installed in the tunnel between Stratford and Manor Park
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5068

Completed tunnel
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5034

Formwork for tunnel walkways
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5033

Completed tunnel
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5035

Down-line tunnel with a walk way installed
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5011

Temple Mills depot connection - fixing rebar for retained cut base slab
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5069

Temple Mills Depot connection tunnel and portal to the Straford box
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5070

Stratford station - erection of steel frame work
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4959

Stratford station - erection of steel frame work
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4960

Concrete train complete in factory in Beauvais ready for delivery to UK
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4980

Temporary track panels being produced and stored at the Kent portal railhead
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4981

Tracklaying at Ebbsfleet
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=4918

Exchange sidings at Dagenham Dock
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5076

Mar Dyke elevated pile slab with noise barrier posts
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5075

Manor Way footbridge
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5074

Aveley viaduct over the existing LT&S railway line
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5073

Thurrock viaduct over London Road
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5072

Dagenham Dock footbridge
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5071

Pepper Hill tunnel - propped roof section complete
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5077

View north towards A2 on Park Corner Roa
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5079

Ebbsfleet station platforms and station steel work under construction
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5078

Contract 576 - Church Path Pit turnback sidings
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5063

Contract 342 - existing North Kent Line, new North Kent Line connection and Ebbsfleet station works (view looking coast bound)
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5062

Contract 342 - overview of site. Ebbsfleet station works in the foreground, North Kent Line connection also visible
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5065

Contract 342 - cut and cover tunnel under the A2 at Pepper Hill junction
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5061

Contract 342 - view from North Kent Line connection to Thames tunnel entrance London bound
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5066

Contract 342 - CTRL trace travels underneath Ebbsfleet station access roads
http://www.ctrl.co.uk/photos/contractLarge.asp?ID=5064

There isa new line U/C from Liège to the German border(SW of AC) with a huge tunnel U/C at Soumagne.
Near Chenée the line will merge with the existing line 36 going to Eupen.

I only have info on broschures from the belgian railways on paper :(

Today I saw an ad in the paper about Eurostar trains from Cologne to Brussels (29€). Does this have something to do with the new connection?

Could be a promotional ticket with the same price as a Thalys ticket from BRU to Köln.
Since 2 weeks I sit at home with a broken foot so I cannot say much more about it.

What did you do? Anyway, van harte beterschap.

I looked at the ad again and it only mentioned Eurostar in the "headline" so I guess it was only talking about Thalys trains. How long does a train ride from Cologne to Brussels take? Read something about the new line where they mentioned it would take about 65 mins, if I remember correctly.

What did you do?

Slipped on a wet step when disembarking a train at Liège...

I looked at the ad again and it only mentioned Eurostar in the "headline" so I guess it was only talking about Thalys trains. How long does a train ride from Cologne to Brussels take? Read something about the new line where they mentioned it would take about 65 mins, if I remember correctly.

65 minutes ?
That is not possible , cause only on the Belgian lines (Bru - AC süd)there shall be a speed of 300km/h.The section between AC süd to Köln is not built for such a speed , I guess 200 or 220km/h.
For the moment there is only 300km/h between Leuven and Ans(suburb of Liège).
In december I visit the region between Liège and AC to take some pictures.
A few weeks ago I took this picture , the crossing of the Meuse river in Liège where lots of infrastructural works are happening to lead the TGV into the new train station.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/3HPIM1327-med.JPG

You are looking at the direction towards Germany.

Anyway, van harte beterschap.

Herzlichen dank :okay:

http://images.thisislondon.co.uk/v2/news/bullettrain271004_450x300.jpg

High-speed rail links confirmed

The 140mph trains are expected to be introduced in 2009
High-speed rail links between London and Kent are to become a reality, the government has confirmed.
New trains are to run from Kent on the Channel Tunnel rail link to a new Eurostar terminus at St Pancras station in central London.

The new 140mph trains, which represent an estimated £200m investment, will also support London's 2012 Olympic bid.

The trains are expected to be built by Japanese bullet train manufacturer Hitachi and introduced in 2009.

Transport Secretary Alistair Darling named Hitachi as the preferred manufacturer for about 30 six-carriage trains.

'Flagship scheme'

He said: "The technology on these trains is cutting edge, which could reduce journey times between Ashford and central London by 40 minutes each way.

"This service will also be the flagship transport scheme to deliver people to and from the Olympic Games, should the UK bid be successful."

The trains will be capable of moving spectators from central London to the Olympic park in Stratford, east London, in less than eight minutes.

New routes are also expected to include Gravesend, the Medway towns, Sittingbourne, Folkestone, Canterbury and Ramsgate.

David Quarmby, of the Strategic Rail Authority, said: "Today's confirmation brings a new rolling stock supplier to the UK market, and passengers can expect a high level of reliability, comfort and speed from these trains."

Good news! I heard earlier that there were doubts about the high speed regional services to Kent. Good thing that journeys from Kent to LDN will also speed up in the future.

Construction works and testing phase on the improved route Hamburg - Berlin are nearly finished. From the 12th december on the ICE trains will operate in a two hour rythm and will need ca. 90 minutes for the route. Travel time will be ca. 40 minutes shorter than now. Maximum operating speed will be improved from 200km/h to 230km/h. 250km/h would also be possible but die to security rules it will be limited to 230km/h.

this is great news re the 140 mph trains but why can't they go at 160mph like the JR 900 Shinkansen (Tsubame) on which they are based?

Hitachi's trainsets are the dogs bollocks by the way. The JR 500 Shinkansen is the meanest looking train around....it really does look like a bulllet and goes like one too......the stretch from Kokura to Hiroshima is the fastest scheduled train service in the world (Average speed 167mph). However when I was on this train it nudged 302 kph after Yamuguchi prefecture.....it was so fast that I got motion sickness!!! :cheers:

this is great news re the 140 mph trains but why can't they go at 160mph like the JR 900 Shinkansen (Tsubame) on which they are based?

Economical reasons. The line is geared for 300 kph (or perhaps even higher), so that's not the problem. But we're talking about trains for relatively short distances, which means that you won't save much time running at 160 mph instead of 140 mph, while it will cost more money. So I guess they decided it's not worth it.

@dom: Isn't Tsunabe the 800 series? At least, that's what I found on this site (http://www.h2.dion.ne.jp/~dajf/byunbyun/types/800.htm).

O yeah !!! :banana:

http://www.wiesbaden-team.de/ice.jpg

at monday i ll travel to Essen wit ice :banana: :D

maybe the time to make some pixs

Have a nice trip! Your route will take you via the Neubaustrecke Frankfurt - Koeln, right? That's the best line to ride with an ICE. :D

Have a nice trip! Your route will take you via the Neubaustrecke Frankfurt - Koeln, right? That's the best line to ride with an ICE. :D

Yes of course :D ICE can travel from wiesbaden only via NBS FFM-Cologne :D so... wwwwwrrrrooommmm :banana: :hilarious

UK is getting a high-speed train connection? Wouldn't it make more sense to invest into good railways and new regular trains first?

UK is getting a high-speed train connection? Wouldn't it make more sense to invest into good railways and new regular trains first?

You have to start somewhere ;)

UK is getting a high-speed train connection? Wouldn't it make more sense to invest into good railways and new regular trains first?The UK is already investing heavily in both and has been for the last few years. If you take the total of public and private sector spending I suspect the UK's rail spending will come out as one of the highest in Europe.

^^^ well what do u want us to tell you !! you need at least those massive investment to be at the continental europe rail standards !! not less !

I think UK's railways are not as bad as many people think. The UK may have no real high speed lines except for the CTRL, but it has a far more extensive regional network than France... with far more frequent service.

Tomorow is a big day for swiss railways, they ll radicaly change the routes, timetables etc... 90% of old times would be changed. Interesting point is, between the most important cities in CH the trains ll aproach every 00th and 30th minute (9:00,9:30,10:00, 10:30 etc....) and between less important cities every 15th and 45th minute. it s long expected Bahn 2000 project in CH (working on them for c.a. 20 years !!)

timetable example image:
http://www.bahn2000.ch/images/public/content/Prinzip_l.gif



http://www.bahn2000.ch/ids/default.asp?TopicID=423

Rail 2000 – A Public Transport Network for the Third Millennium

The Swiss population's mobility needs that have drastically increased since 1960 in conjunction with the triumphant advance of private motorization culminated in the first traffic pinch points on rail and road in the early 1970s. Transit corridors on rail through the Swiss Alps were overloaded and the traffic connections in the densely populated Swiss Midlands touched at their limits. The quest for unfettered individual mobility put the railway at a disadvantage and soon led to the first traffic jams on the road. The Swiss citizens realised for the first time that the dream of boundless automotive freedom is not to be realised without serious consequences.

This was the background before which the railway promised new alternatives. The existing rail network that had remained virtually unchanged for over 100 years was to be revitalised. After the Rail 2000 concept was approved at the ballots in 1987, the Swiss population repeatedly voted in favour of further government bills on transport policy, all of which aimed at an increased shift of traffic from road to rail. At costs of around CHF 30 billion, the railways were to be fundamentally modernised in the course of the ensuing 20 years. Apart from the construction of two new base tunnels at the Gotthard and Lötschberg respectively, the packet includes also the connection of Switzerland to the European high-speed network, noise remediation of the trunk line network, and the two phases of the Rail 2000 concept. On 12 December 2004, the first big milestone of Swiss transport policy will be reached with the launch of the first phase of Rail 2000.

I am really full of expectation, if everything works out - it's a HUGE change like seldom a country made before and the timetable will be so dense, that a train that is 5 minutes late can lead to a chaos ;) That's why they are also not waiting for the connections anymore - saying, in 15 or 30' will be another train anyway... In Zurich HB 2200 trains or so will pass - PER DAY!

If it works out without any problems: chapeau!! But I doubt it a bit... we will see in 14 hours...

ok in 7 min is "to be or not" for swiss railways !! :rock:

map of railway infraestructures
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/hsr/images/16.gif

trains "talgo" in collaboration with adTranz for line madrid-zaragoza-barcelona

http://www.talgo.com/images/t350.gif

Simultaneously, the engineering Talgo initiated the development of a new tread type Talgo, capable of circulating in commercial service 350 km/h, to be connected to the cars of the new series of boxes you suspend. The final result of these new developments is the generation of trains Talgo 350 whose first unit, already in the year 2000, managed to circulate to 340 km/h. in the route of high speed Madrid - Seville (Spain) in excellent conditions of stability and comfort. This speed was overcome in March, 2001, a new record of speed being established in Spain to it circulate to 359 km/h. along the same route.

this talgo train is awful !

je n aime pas beaucoup

yeah they should have kept on with the design of the Alta Velocidad Express !

esto no es mucho estetico ;)

I perfer the older ICE's, anyone have any pics of those?

I prefer the new ICEs.

BTW: From today the ICE needs only 90 minutes instead of 120 minutes for the journey between Hamburg and Berlin nonstop. During the last four years the DEUTSCHE BAHN improved the track, after it was decided that the Transrapid will not be built between the two cities. (the Transrapid would have needed 60 minutes for the journey, but would have costed several billions) The improvement has costed several hundred million euros (because they also had to change level-crossings into bridges and underpasses and had to install security fences at the regional train stations).

YEAH! Swiss sytem works! I took a trip up the Rigi to escape the eternal fog finally (pics will follow in a few days somewhere here) - and everything worked fine :)

Yes but I enjoy that extra 30 minutes to see the German countryside, but I guess if you live there it doesnt really matter to you.

Yes but I enjoy that extra 30 minutes to see the German countryside, but I guess if you live there it doesnt really matter to you.

Just flat land. Nothing special for a north german like me. What matters me the most is the ticket-price.

Good to hear Bahn 2000 is working fine. I'll really have to visit Switzerland soon again to see it all in operation.

@Kuesel: waiting for your Rigi pics! :)

Just flat land. Nothing special for a north german like me. What matters me the most is the ticket-price.

From what I remember DB is rather expensive

Standard prices for DB are indeed rather expensive. However, there are ways to get many reductions. On long distance trains, you can get reductions of up to 50 % if you book ahead. On top of this, most regular users have a BahnCard which gives an additional 25 or 50 % reduction.

On regional trains, there are several regional or nationwide tickets that are fairly cheap. For example the Schoenes-Wochenende Ticket lets five people travel anywhere in the country for EUR 28, so if you use it with 5 people it's only EUR 5,60 each. But you can only use this one on regional trains (as well as on urban transport in many cities).

Tomorow is a big day for swiss railways, they ll radicaly change the routes, timetables etc... 90% of old times would be changed. Interesting point is, between the most important cities in CH the trains ll aproach every 00th and 30th minute (9:00,9:30,10:00, 10:30 etc....) and between less important cities every 15th and 45th minute. it s long expected Bahn 2000 project in CH (working on them for c.a. 20 years !!)

timetable example image:
http://www.bahn2000.ch/images/public/content/Prinzip_l.gif



http://www.bahn2000.ch/ids/default.asp?TopicID=423
That's impressive!

Yes of course :D ICE can travel from wiesbaden only via NBS FFM-Cologne :D so... wwwwwrrrrooommmm :banana: :hilarious
Damn, is that you?

http://photobucket.com/albums/v382/idvd/Brussels/?action=view&current=idvdtired.jpg

Talking about trains : how is the situation with the TGV-NG ??

Damn, is that you?

http://photobucket.com/albums/v382/idvd/Brussels/?action=view&current=idvdtired.jpg

Yes, but it isn't a usual face, i was superbtired after returning from Bruxelles :)

Anyway, russians bought 60 compositions of ICE 3 trains :eek:

Yes, here is heavy talk in Russia nowadays about highspeed rail connections.

Finally today were reached agreement in 1.7bln euro with Seimens for supply of RZD with 60 trains and future option for 90 trains more. It is also provides buy of entire technology.

First 10 trains will puted to line Moscow - St. Petersburg in 2007 with supporting cruise speed in 350kmph. Then party of trains for line Moscow - Helsinki with cruise speed in 250-300kmph.

President of RZD also said that in future trains will be puted for line Moscow - Kiev.

-----------------------------
from me

I have actually don't understand when speed in 350kmph could be reached...

There was two version - to built new line, which will support such speed or reconstruction of present line to support 250kmph. In fact RZD selected second and reconstruction already done.

Well, hope they will built new line, because Siemens also will built high speed freeway between Moscow and St. Petersburg, so may be it will be complex of Freeway and Railway...

Anyway. 1.7bln euro seems to be not so big money. Typical reconstruction of Small ring railway in Moscow costs in $1.3bln and will begin next year with opening of first part in 2007.

Talking about trains : how is the situation with the TGV-NG ??

As far as I know there's no progress on it. SNCF is now buying new TGV-POS trains, which are in fact conventional Reseau trailers with Duplex motorheads.

How is the construction status of the TGV Est & Lyon > Torino ?
Is the Rhein/Rhône project still alive ?

How is the construction status of the TGV Est & Lyon > Torino ?
Is the Rhein/Rhône project still alive ?
==> TGV Est
- Paris - Beaudrecourt: under construction. Openning in 2007
- Beaudrecourt-Strasbourg (Kehl): construction beginning in 2010

==> TGV Languedoc
- Perpignan-Figueras: under construction. Oppenning in 2009
- Nimes-Montpellier: construction beginning in 2005 or 2006
- Montpellier-Perpignan: ???????

==> TGV Rhein-Rhône:
- East (Dijon-Mulhouse): contruction beginning in 2007
- South and West: way not decided

==> TGV South Europe Atlantique
- Angoulème-Bordeaux: construction beginning in 2008
- Tours-Angoulème: construction beginning in 2013
- Bordeaux-Toulouse: construction begginning in 2014
- Dax-Vitoria: ??? (maybe 2015)
- Bordeaux Dax: ??? (upgrading the existing line to 320 km/h is possible)

==> TGV Bretagne-Pays de la Loire
- Le Mans-Rennes: construction beginning in 2009

==> Transalpine
- Lyon-Turin: construction beginning in 2012
For oppening dates: construction beggining + 5 years.

==> Paris "ring"
- Massy-Orly-Valenton: ???? (maybe 2013)

Новый год, новые проекты
http://www.rzd-partner.ru/news/index.php?action=view&st=1105343112&id=0

10/01/2005 (10:45)
В канун Нового года в Санкт-Петербурге прошло совещание с участием членов правления ОАО "РЖД" под руководством его президента Геннадия Фадеева, посвященное организации высокоскоростного движения на линии Москва – Санкт-Петербург – Хельсинки.

Как уже сообщалось, 22 декабря Г.Фадеев выступил на итоговом заседании правления компании с сенсационным заявлением о принятом им решении по вопросу создания ВСМ в России. "Отныне все рассуждения – быть или не быть у нас высокоскоростному железнодорожному движению – следует считать завершенными. Мы должны очень многое перевернуть в своих планах на сей счет и к концу 2007 года привести инфраструктуру на действующей линии Москва – Санкт-Петербург под скорости 300 км в час и выше", - сказал глава ОАО "РЖД".
31 декабря на Октябрьской железной дороге были обсуждены практические аспекты данного проекта. В частности, отмечалось, что проведенная на линии Санкт-Петербург – Москва в 1994 – 2001 годах генеральная реконструкция создает основу для высокоскоростного движения. Сегодня здесь скоростные поезда развивают скорость 200 км в час почти на половине пути. Однако для увеличения ее в полтора раза и выше понадобится проведение большого объема работ. В частности, это реконструкция путей с переустройством кривых, модернизация контактной сети и устройств СЦБ. Необходимо также построить 10 путепроводов на железнодорожных переездах, создать обходы городов Бологое и Тверь и многое другое. Принято решение уже в январе начать совместное обследование российскими и немецкими специалистами состояния инфраструктуры, после чего будут сделаны конкретные выводы и определены основные направления и сроки работ.
Относительно подвижного состава предполагается, что это будет поезд совместного российско-германского производства на базе экспресса ICE фирмы Сименс АГ с выпуском на Московском локомотиворемонтном заводе. Первый экспресс предполагается построить в 2007 году.
Обсуждался вопрос грузового движения на линии Санкт-Петербург – Москва. Сегодня здесь в графике стоит 12 поездов. При изменении плана формирования можно снизить это количество до шести. Есть проблемы и с пригородным движением, которые необходимо будет решать.
"Новейшие технологии приходят в Россию. Надо не упустить шанс. Часы запущены, время пошло", - констатировал Геннадий Фадеев.

================================================


New Year, New Projects
http://www.rzd-partner.ru/news/index.php?action=view&st=1105343112&id=0

In the New Year's eve in Saint Petersburg was held a meeting of directors of Russian Railways public corporation (RZhD) with their president Genadiy Fadeyev about High Speed Network Moscow - St. Petersburg - Helsinki.

As was already reported, on december 22 on annual session of board G. Fadeyev said that "All discussions - to be or not to be for high speed network in Russia can be considered ended. We must overturn many in our plans in this case and to the end of 2007 upgrade infrastructure on present line Moscow - St. Petersburg for speeds in 300 kmph and upper."

On december 31 in October Railways was discussed all practical aspects of this project. It was noticed that upgrade completed on line Moscow - St. Petersburg in 1994 - 2001 making base for the high speed traffic. Today trains reaching 200kmph on over half of route. But increasing of it in one and half times needs much more of job. In particular, it is reconstruction of tracks with reorganization of curves, modernizing of catenary and rail automations.

Also needs to built 10 overpasses in crossing with roads, to made detour in Tver, Bologoye and other places. Adopted a result, that in january of 2005 will begin collective inspection of Russian and German specialists of present line condition. Then concrete conclusions will be made and the basic directions and terms of works are determined.

Considering of rolling stock supposing that it will be train of Russian-German development on a base of Siemens ICE. Trains will building at Moscow Locomotive and Maintenance Factory. First train will out at end of 2007.

Freigh servies was also discussed. In present traffic there is 12 freigh trains. After changing of plans its count will decreased to 6. Another problem is commuter service which will be resolved.

"Newest technologies comes to Russia. Need do not to lost a chance. Clocks are ran, time is going" - said Fedeyev.


=============================================

so they will not building a new line, but will upgrading present to support of 350kmph.

Is the Rhein/Rhône project still alive ?

It seems to be !

http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/dos_p_26122004_viaduc_rr.pdf

AVE
New and old generation if I'm not wrong
http://www.railwaymania.com/docs/imgdb/renfe_102_001.jpg
The actual one
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v603/rufi/AVE-1.jpg
:runaway:

The fastest Polish trains go 160 kphm (up to 200 kph on the German side), so we have not high speed trains yet..
Polish speed record was about 250 kph, but it was made by Pendolino and it was only technical ride.

Situation of works in progress in Italy of high speed rail system

- Go to official site of high speed train of Italy:
http://www.tav.it/
- once inside site select GALLERIA MULTIMEDIALE
- then select ARCHIVIO FOTOGRAFICO
- select LINEE and chose one of eight main lines (for ex. Milano-Bologna)

- For images of high resolution select ALBUM DEI LAVORI

Enjoy

The fastest Polish trains go 160 kphm (up to 200 kph on the German side), so we have not high speed trains yet..

Too bad, because the line between Warszawa and Katowice / Krakow (Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa, or something like that ;) ) could very well be turned into a high speed line. It's straight and doesn't have grade crossings...wasn't it originally designed for speeds of 250 km/h??

http://c.m.k.webpark.pl/ep09.jpg

Too bad, because the line between Warszawa and Katowice / Krakow (Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa, or something like that ;) ) could very well be turned into a high speed line. It's straight and doesn't have grade crossings...wasn't it originally designed for speeds of 250 km/h??

http://c.m.k.webpark.pl/ep09.jpg

Mayble in few years they would have one. I would love to see more HSTs in Europe.

We don't have any highspeed trains in Denmark either. The fastest now are 180 km/h, but we'll soon get new IC4 trains which will have a max speed of 200 km/h.

There's a new thread about trains in the Scandinavian and Baltic countries if anyone should be interested, you can find it HERE (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=179031).

@mln: I heard there are great technical problems with the IC4 trainsets. Do you have more information on it?

Too bad, because the line between Warszawa and Katowice / Krakow (Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa, or something like that ;) ) could very well be turned into a high speed line. It's straight and doesn't have grade crossings...wasn't it originally designed for speeds of 250 km/h??

http://c.m.k.webpark.pl/ep09.jpg


You are correct, CMK was designed for high speed travel. Currently trains can do 250km/h on CMK but our state rainways doesnt own any high speed locos. There are several major routes slated for upgrades, Warszawa-Gdansk 250km/h, Warszawa-Lodz 250/km and possibly all the way to Berlin.

PKP is planning a tender for high speed locomotives but I dont expect them until 2009.

I love high speed trains! I hope to see some in Ukraine soon :(. Might as well travel to cool countries like Germany or England where high speed trains are a daily thing. :)

There are NO real high speed trains in England...
In Europe, consider:
France
Germany
Spain

DavoR ;)

There are NO real high speed trains in England...
In Europe, consider:
France
Germany
Spain

DavoR ;)

eurostar ;)

but if you mean within UK city to city we only have intercity.

map of railway infraestructures
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/hsr/images/16.gif

trains "talgo" in collaboration with adTranz for line madrid-zaragoza-barcelona

http://www.talgo.com/images/t350.gif

Simultaneously, the engineering Talgo initiated the development of a new tread type Talgo, capable of circulating in commercial service 350 km/h, to be connected to the cars of the new series of boxes you suspend. The final result of these new developments is the generation of trains Talgo 350 whose first unit, already in the year 2000, managed to circulate to 340 km/h. in the route of high speed Madrid - Seville (Spain) in excellent conditions of stability and comfort. This speed was overcome in March, 2001, a new record of speed being established in Spain to it circulate to 359 km/h. along the same route.

This TALGO train is very beautiful for me!!
It has been nicknamed "pato" here in Spain, which means "duck".
Top speed= 363kph.
Maximum commercial speed= 330kph.
Starting service today 26/2/2005 from Madrid to Lleida at the limited speed of 200kph. Since Summer 250kph. And 330kph in 2007 from Madrid to Barcelona!
;)

DavoR

There are NO real high speed trains in England...
In Europe, consider:
France
Germany
Spain

DavoR ;)


ehm, you are forgetting .... Italy! :bash: :D

I just quote Tarchon's post:

High speed trains in Italy exist since the sixties when already run the ETR 220 and ETR 250 which run till a speed max of 200 km/h!


ETR 220
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR220/ETR222.jpg

ETR 250 SETTEBELLO
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR-misc/etr250.jpg


Then in the eighty arrived first version of PENDOLINO the ETR 401 and ETR 450 with its revolutionary tilting system patented by FIAT and sell to many European train industries.

ETR 401 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA):

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR401/etr401_2.jpg

ETR 450 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA):
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR450/etr450_3.jpg


After success of PENDOLINO and also under necessity to modernise Italian rail system, in the eighty started project and study of “direttrice T” (an high speed rail system with T shape who across all North and South Italy), so born apposite society TAV (treni alta velocità : high speed trains).
At present in Italy run four types of high speed train (ETR 460, ETR 470, ETR 500, ETR Y 500) further to TGV from Paris to Milan, ETR 460 and ETR 500 run on Italian rails since 1990.

ETR 500 (ANSALDOBREDA, design PINIFARINA, cruiser speed 250 km/h, max speed 300km/h )

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Bologna/Etr500mc.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Firenze/fs19990617A.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dc/Venezia/ETR_500_Venezia.jpg

ETR 460 and ETR 480 PENDOLINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA)

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR460/Etr460Scilla.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR460/ETR460.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR480/FS-480-051.jpg

ETR 470 CISALPINO (FIAT-FERROVIARIA), it connects Swiss to Italy


http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/guidojet/TR_CIS_ETR470_CLago_020915.jpg

http://members.xoom.virgilio.it/guidojet/TR_CIS_ETR470_MilanoCle_020.jpg

ETR Y 500 (ANSALDOBREDA, cruiser speed 250 km/h, max speed 300km/h ) new entry with double type of supply for Italy and France standard and new de

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Milano/P3170039.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Milano/MILANO_C.3.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/Roma/etr500_2810.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/advertising/etr500_56.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/it/electric/emu/ETR500/dual/advertising/pic_025.jpg

This is the actual "high speed network" in Italy:
http://www.en.tav.it/img/CartinaTAV(9).jpg

however the entire network is been upgraded (reorganising the urban rail junctions and quadrupling -i.e. building a new pair of tracks- the most intensely used and saturated railway sections along the country's most important rail transport routes) according to the highest technological standards.

The new network should be ready by 2006/2007

Am I the only one who likes the Talgo 350 design? ICE trainsets look like Japanese knock offs. French high speed sets are cool looking, especially the TGV Duplex.

eurostar ;)

but if you mean within UK city to city we only have intercity.

Vrgin service is only high speed now it is 125miles - if you call this hight speed, but hey they are tring there best, lol :cheers:

eurostar ;)

but if you mean within UK city to city we only have intercity.

Virgin service is only high speed now it is 125miles - if you call this high speed, but hey they are tring there best, lol :cheers:

I know they are planing 430km (270miles) maglev train to Newcaste and than onwards to Edinbrough - but this want happend with in next 10 years min.

These are some of the different train models running on the H.S.L in the country.

http://tinypic.com/1ywai1
AVE S-102 (Pato) S-100 and S-120 ( CAF.Alsthom)

http://tinypic.com/1ywbjq

]

]

Ah, the Talgo "Donald Duck" has finally entered service. Good news! :cool:

http://tinypic.com/1zdhjn
I also like it

who has links from good railwayforums ??

[IMG]http://tinypic.com/20hz0l[/IMG
These are some of the H.S.T. running in Spain

ehm, you are forgetting .... Italy! :bash: :D

High Speed means 250kph and more!
So England hasn't got hifg speed trains at present. The Eurostar in UK cannot go faster than 160kph, I think.
Italy, I don't know...
:(

and don't forget the new ice3 for spanish AVE too (the first will arrive this year)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/ice/ice3_ave_300x165.jpg
http://www.ice-fanpage.de/ave/aves103_01klein.gif

^^ i heard they re a bit "tuned" so they ll go on 360 kmph :eek:

Would like to know how much many is spend and is going to be spend on all those huge infrastructures ?

Any idea ?

High Speed means 250kph and more!
So England hasn't got hifg speed trains at present. The Eurostar in UK cannot go faster than 160kph, I think.
Italy, I don't know...
:(
- Eurostar: 300 km/h on CTRL1.

^^ i heard they re a bit "tuned" so they ll go on 360 kmph :eek:

The Talgo 350 (hence the number, since it can go 350 km/h) can travel at that speed as well. I think they have to wait for something related to the ERTMS, although I could be wrong. Can someone clarify why the Talgo 350 trains are not running at their top speed at the moment and why the Siemens trains are being introduced so much later after the Talgo trains when the contracts were comissioned at the same time?

The Talgo 350 (hence the number, since it can go 350 km/h) can travel at that speed as well.

Probably even faster than that. The potential top speed of most high speed trains is higher than they're actually running. The top speed is usally chosen out of economic considerations, not because they cannot go faster.

I think they have to wait for something related to the ERTMS, although I could be wrong. Can someone clarify why the Talgo 350 trains are not running at their top speed at the moment

ERMTS (or better: ETCS) problems indeed. The systems still have technical problems.

and why the Siemens trains are being introduced so much later after the Talgo trains when the contracts were comissioned at the same time?

Siemens f*ckep up, like they do more often (Combino trams, etc). :bash:

RENFE has imposed fines on Siemens for the late-delivery of the AVE103s. So far, aggregate penalties amount to EUR 21M.

If Siemens fails once more, penalties will increase to EUR 48M, about 12% of the contract value of 2001.

CONTRACT ON HIGH-SPEED TRAINS WITH SIEMENS TO BE SIGNED IN APRIL
http://en.rian.ru/rian/index.cfm?prd_id=160&msg_id=5457673&startrow=1&date=2005-03-11&do_alert=0


MOSCOW, March 11 (RIA Novosti) - Russian Railways (RZhD) and Siemens intend to sign a contract on production of new-generation high-speed electric trains in April. As the RZhD press release, received by RIA Novosti on Friday, reads, the accord to this effect was reached on March 10 at the Moscow meeting between president of OAO RZhD Gennady Fadeyev and president of the Siemens - Transportation Systems company Hans M. Schabert. The structure of the forthcoming contract was discussed at the meeting.

In the opinion of the OAO RZhD top officials, an obligation by Siemens to place the production capacities at Russian enterprises is a condition of principle for concluding the contract. "OAO RZhD also insists on gradual Russification of production: in Mr. Fadeyev's opinion, the Russian suppliers must master from 30% of the train's prime cost in 2007-2008 to 80% in 2015," the press service reports.

The RZhD head also noted that Siemens and Russian industrial plants and investment banks and companies will enter the joint venture. According to Mr. Fadeyev, proposals from banks of Europe and the Russian Federation are already coming.

For its part, OAO RZhD guarantees purchase of 60 trains at an agreed-upon price. As Gennady Fadeyev stressed, RZhD assumes the bringing of the infrastructure of Russian railways in line with the requirements of operation of high-speed trains. According to the estimate by the company's president, the value of this work (it will be done within three years) is practically equal to the value of the products to be bought from Siemens company.

Hans Schabert confirmed Siemens' consent to all the conditions proposed by OAO RZhD, and noted that they "in effect, by 100% meet the Siemens ideas of the contract under preparation."

The Siemens representative said that several engineering solutions of the future train have now been prepared. According to Mr. Fadeyev, "it is already clear that it will be a direct current electric train."

Siemens f*ckep up, like they do more often (Combino trams, etc). :bash:

RENFE has imposed fines on Siemens for the late-delivery of the AVE103s. So far, aggregate penalties amount to EUR 21M.

If Siemens fails once more, penalties will increase to EUR 48M, about 12% of the contract value of 2001.

I would that the Spanish would take this into account and only order from Talgo for any future high speed train set orders.

What has happened to Germany and its products?!

@Coth: well, I hope for Russia that RZD has less problems with Siemens trains than RENFE....

@Vertigo
Siemens will not just supply ICE. They will make a new train based on ICE technology. Train will support 300kmph of cruise speed and will used on lines Piter - Moscow (350kmph), Piter - Helsinki (300kmph). And later Moscow - Lower Novgorod (250kmph), Moscow - Rostov at Don (250kmph) and Moscow - Kiev (250 kmph)

@Coth: I know, but Siemens has had problems with a lot of their products recently, including:
- Combino trams
- ICE3
- RENFE high speeds trains (actually not ICE's either, but very closely related)
- ICE-TD (diesel trains which are totally different from regular ICE trains)

So I wish RZD good luck with it... ;) (Fortunately, Siemens also produces trains which have no problems).

Please let me know if you have any renderings.

In Turkey they are building a new line between Ankara-Eskisehir-Istanbul and Ankara-Konya.The traveling speed will be 250 km/h and according to the goverment it is a high-speed-train.Can this train be called high-speed-train or is the turkish goverment "cheating"?I've no idea about that since I've never traveled by any ICE or TGV etc..