Not to create issues but several people in Addis during a holiday there were convinced that Djibouti is a "lost" province of Ethiopia and that one day it should "come" back. As well as a lot of Ethiopian forumers claiming that Djibouti belongs to Ethiopia.
Obviously such comments are offensing for most Djiboutians who feel insulted in their soverainty, but my question here is: Do you guys feel the same? Are the people with such views a minority in Ethiopia? What created such ideas. Anyway, working on a project about Djibouti's relations with neighbouring countries and I would like to address the issue. Your help on the matter would be welcomed.

I've never thought about it, nor have i heard anyone on this forum claiming such thing. One thing i have the right to claim is the rightfully port of Ethiopia, namely "Asseb", It's just a question of when.

The short answer to your question: NO one to my knowledge wants Djibouti to be part of Ethiopia.
Long answer: Was Djibouti part of Ethiopia in the past? I am not 100% sure, but I have heard it was. So, that is where the whole idea of Djibouti and Ethiopia comes to play. What I know is Less than 100 years ago, before Djibouti was French's colony, it was one country. But Pre-colonial Africa is obviously not the same as post-colonial Africa, so what I am saying is DON'T WORRY too much about that, as there are other more pressing issues.

I've never thought about it, nor have i heard anyone on this forum claiming such thing. One thing i have the right to claim is the rightfully port of Ethiopia, namely "Asseb", It's just a question of when.

I agree with you 100% especially about Ethiopia's port.

To the djiboutian guy,

You have to take into account the fluid borders in that area so I don't know if this kind of question really matters in the sense that Ethiopia is such a large country with virtually an open border with Djibouti for the nomads in the area who don't care about the lines on the map. From what I read, Djiboutians are allowed to come into Ethiopia without a passport and basically do whatever and vice versa.

I have a Djiboutian friend who has visited Ethiopia numerous times and basically knows more about the culture more than me since I've never been to Ethiopia. His family owns a home in Addis Ababa and they seem to have no problem traveling to Ethiopia and no problem in considering themselves of Ethiopian stock so I don't know if it's accurate for you to use the word "most" when saying "most Djiboutians who feel insulted in their soverainty"...unless you went out and did a survey in Djibouti of course.

Let's not forget the economic reality that Ethiopia is Djibouti's largest trade partner by virtue of Ethiopia's size relative to other countries in the region. I would say the relationship is somewhat like the US and Canada: most Americans are indifferent to whether Canada joins them or not since it makes little difference economically to them but the border is basically open because the populations are similar. However, in terms of realpolitik, the economic trade relations between both countries (ie. oil, lumber etc) is more important than anything else even though it's not mentioned much so obviously the ideological differences about nationality and lines on a map are set aside.

So I think in your project you should focus on the ethnic people living in that region (ie. Afar, Somali) and more importantly you should also mention the economic relations between the countries since in the end it's always about money/trade especially in the face of globalization and economic interdependence. The bulk of Djibouti's economic growth comes from renting the port to Ethiopia for 1 billion dollars per year I think.

By the way, Wikipedia says that the Djiboutian president was born in Ethiopia so that pretty much sums up the reasons why some Ethiopians in Addis Ababa said what they said.

I agree with you 100% especially about Ethiopia's port.

To the djiboutian guy,

You have to take into account the fluid borders in that area so I don't know if this kind of question really matters in the sense that Ethiopia is such a large country with virtually an open border with Djibouti for the nomads in the area who don't care about the lines on the map. From what I read, Djiboutians are allowed to come into Ethiopia without a passport and basically do whatever and vice versa.

I have a Djiboutian friend who has visited Ethiopia numerous times and basically knows more about the culture more than me since I've never been to Ethiopia. His family owns a home in Addis Ababa and they seem to have no problem traveling to Ethiopia and no problem in considering themselves of Ethiopian stock so I don't know if it's accurate for you to use the word "most" when saying "most Djiboutians who feel insulted in their soverainty"...unless you went out and did a survey in Djibouti of course.

Let's not forget the economic reality that Ethiopia is Djibouti's largest trade partner by virtue of Ethiopia's size relative to other countries in the region. I would say the relationship is somewhat like the US and Canada: most Americans are indifferent to whether Canada joins them or not since it makes little difference economically to them but the border is basically open because the populations are similar. However, in terms of realpolitik, the economic trade relations between both countries (ie. oil, lumber etc) is more important than anything else even though it's not mentioned much so obviously the ideological differences about nationality and lines on a map are set aside.

So I think in your project you should focus on the ethnic people living in that region (ie. Afar, Somali) and more importantly you should also mention the economic relations between the countries since in the end it's always about money/trade especially in the face of globalization and economic interdependence. The bulk of Djibouti's economic growth comes from renting the port to Ethiopia for 1 billion dollars per year I think.

By the way, Wikipedia says that the Djiboutian president was born in Ethiopia so that pretty much sums up the reasons why some Ethiopians in Addis Ababa said what they said.


Don't really need a survey about how Djiboutians feel about claims by some Ethiopians, you see their anger. It's a general think because Somalians also claim that Djibouti is theirs since the ethnic Somalis are the majority. We grew up in this psychosis of either Ethiopia or Somalia invading us (even though that thought is fading away). Thats why Djibouti signed the Defence Treaty with France at the independance (when Ethiopia and Somalia where fighting for the Ogaden btw)

I'll definatly mention the economic reality between our 2 countries which is one of mutual benefit since our economies are interdependant. Ethiopia using Djibouti ports for their exports and imports and Djibouti importing food and khat (or qat) from Ethiopia because of the lack of agriculture in Djibouti (mainly due to the climate). Djibouti will soon import power from Ethiopia as well (should be operational by the end of this year I think).
You're right about the fact that we share much in a sense that the 2 main ethnic groups of Djibouti also live in Ethiopia. It's another point that I have to emphasize as well.

But about your friend who has a house in Addis, a lot (not to say most) middle class or upper class Djiboutians have residences in Ethiopia (either Addis or Dire Dawa) since Ethiopia is the first destination of Djiboutian holiday makers when it gets too hot in the summer. I have personally been to Ethiopia 3 times. Plus the fact that the life in Ethiopia is a lot cheaper in Djibouti, Ethiopia is for most Djiboutians a perfect destination. And you're right about the passport thing Djiboutians don't need a passport to go to Ethiopia since thousands of Djiboutians flock there every summer.

The President Ismael Omar was born in Ethiopia. His father was working for the Compagnie de Chemin de Fer (the rail road linking the 2 capitals). But that doesn't really make him an Ethiopian, even the first president Hassan Gouled was born in Somalia.

I've never thought about it, nor have i heard anyone on this forum claiming such thing. One thing i have the right to claim is the rightfully port of Ethiopia, namely "Asseb", It's just a question of when.

Can you hep me out by telling me how Asseb would be Ethiopian and not Eritrean?

I think you know very well ;)

I've never thought about it, nor have i heard anyone on this forum claiming such thing. One thing i have the right to claim is the rightfully port of Ethiopia, namely "Asseb", It's just a question of when.

^^i like it the badme war has just started again,:lol: but this time in the internet:lol: for sure the last time i checked asseb was solidly in the Eritrea side not Ethiopia:).

^^i[/B] like it the badme war has just started again,:lol: but this time in the internet:lol: for sure the last time i checked asseb was solidly in the Eritrea side not Ethiopia:).

Well that's because the current Ethiopian government which represents a sliver of the Ethiopian population wants it that way. If you haven't noticed, Ethiopia is quite a large country that can throw its weight around. I doubt that the current unpopular government will survive the next few years and I highly doubt that Ethiopians will agree to a secret deal between two sisterly rebel groups in the past that do not represent them on a sea port that has always belonged to Ethiopia anyways. As Tarrex said, whether it be tomorrow or 10 years from now, it will happen regardless and this is no extremist talking.

Well that's because the current Ethiopian government which represents a sliver of the Ethiopian population wants it that way. If you haven't noticed, Ethiopia is quite a large country that can throw its weight around. I doubt that the current unpopular government will survive the next few years and I highly doubt that Ethiopians will agree to a secret deal between two sisterly rebel groups in the past that do not represent them on a sea port that has always belonged to Ethiopia anyways. As Tarrex said, whether it be tomorrow or 10 years from now, it will happen regardless and this is no extremist talking.

Here we go again, and we're supposed to try to get peace in the region...

I just don't understand. Eritrea was the ex-italian colony right, and Asseb was part of that italian colony, so Asseb should be Eritrean right?

I just don't understand. Eritrea was the ex-italian colony right, and Asseb was part of that italian colony, so Asseb should be Eritrean right?
What was Asseb part of before the Italian colonization? And who operated the port after the Italians got defeated?

The TPLF mafia in Ethiopia sold our souls when they gave away our only sea port and now they are continuing selling us out by giving away huge land to Sudan.

About Djibouti, I have never heard anyone claiming Djibouti. It was once part of Ethiopia/Abyssinia, but if I am correct, they were allowed to vote for independence and they choose to.

Anyways, I don't know any Ethiopian that claims Djibouti or Eritrea for that matter, but 80 million Ethiopians will never forget Asseb.

^^i[/B] like it the badme war has just started again,:lol: but this time in the internet:lol: for sure the last time i checked asseb was solidly in the Eritrea side not Ethiopia:).

It's traditionally an Ethiopian port. Ethiopia can and will take it.

i'm sorry but all of this talk about Asseb belonging to Ethiopia but the rest of Eritrea doesn't, doesn't make since. Asseb is completely surrounded by the rest of Eritrea and Eritrea historically was apart of the Ethiopian empire. if it wasn't for the foreigners both Eritrea and Asseb would still be apart of Ethiopia.

Asseb is located in the south of Eritrea, in the Danakil region on a narrow strip of land. I could understand it's importance to Ethiopia, this will give access to the sea and a trading port would then be acquired, also oil refineries are located in the area. It is a military/economic strategic point to come into possessions of the area without broadening a conflict throughout the region, so it's focused on the southern strip of Eritrea.

I am aware that in recent times, U.S. and Ethiopia relationship grew stronger along with support, in comparison to nearby nations.

i'm sorry but all of this talk about Asseb belonging to Ethiopia but the rest of Eritrea doesn't, doesn't make since. Asseb is completely surrounded by the rest of Eritrea and Eritrea historically was apart of the Ethiopian empire. if it wasn't for the foreigners both Eritrea and Asseb would still be apart of Ethiopia.

I presume that, if this was to happen, a narrow land corridor would also be added to connect Asseb to Ethiopia.

Meaning that Djibouti and Eritrea would not be neighbors anymore.

I understand that Ethiopians desire a port of their own, and it was their most used one before handing it over, but it won't be really easy for them to just get it back, especially since they were fighting with Eritrea over a much less important village (Badme) just a few years ago.

Here's the true story of why some people believe Jibuti (it's just easier spelling it that way) belongs to Ethiopia.

Jibuti has always been a rather sparsely populated reigion, sometimes part of Muslim sultanates (Ifat, Aussa, ect), at times under nominal control of the Ethiopian emperors through vassal rulers. In the mid-19th century these were the sultans of Raheita, Tadjoura, and Gobaad. In 1862 France purchased the port of Obock from these rulers, and eventually expanded its domain under a protectorate, named French Somaliland(which meant the local rulers technically retained domestic control under French supervision, but it was basically an outright colony).
As the following map shows it was originally larger than it is today, its size was reduced by Franco-Ethiopian treaties after the First Italo-Ethiopian War. (As were virtually all other neighboring colonies)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/EthiopiaRAND1908.jpg
Ethiopia had always been deeply involved in French Somaliland, and of course we have the Addis-Dire Dawa-Jibuti railroad to attest that, as well as the fact that the central square in Jibuti (was/is?) called the Place Menelik. After French Somaliland became the territory of the Afars and Issas in the late 60's, there were some in the Ethiopian government that reminded the French that the local rulers whom the French had bought their territory from were technically Ethiopian vassals. But by the time Jibuti finally gained indpendence in '77, Ethiopia had had a revolution and was at war with Somalia, and in no state to go claiming territories. It also had no reason to, with Massawa and Assab.
But after Meles gave away Eritrea (yes, I won't just accept Assab, we deserve it all; don't get me started), people yearned for acess to the sea, and people looked to Jibuti as a way to expand without conflict.
But let me make it clear, it's just nostalgia combined with the need to find an outlet for their frustration, everyone knows that an invasion would be economic (closure of the port) and political (Camp Lemonier, anyone?) suicide.

Now a Jibuti-Ethiopia Federation would be interesting, but how would that work?

http://www.geschichteinchronologie.ch/afrika/kol/Eritrea-Munzinger-d/019-karte-Eritrea-Tessenai-Massawa-Assab.gif

Assab is just a small strip in huge importance for Ethiopia and Ethiopia will take it back very soon mark my words.

From an economic standpoint and even military, I fully understand it's importance. Ethiopia within the last decade or 2 or so has become a landlocked nation, with no access to the sea, meaning an important trading post can be acquired through Assab. This would also allow the military to establish a navy to protect interest.

I will not accept that, though! :nuts:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Provinces_of_Ethiopia.png

One Ethiopia!

I presume that, if this was to happen, a narrow land corridor would also be added to connect Asseb to Ethiopia.

Meaning that Djibouti and Eritrea would not be neighbors anymore.

I understand that Ethiopians desire a port of their own, and it was their most used one before handing it over, but it won't be really easy for them to just get it back, especially since they were fighting with Eritrea over a much less important village (Badme) just a few years ago.
But hasn't the military and diplomatic situation had changed a bit? Eritrea is more of an international pariah state, having supported "radicals" in Somalia. Eritrea is marginalized from most of the world's leading countries.

On the other hand, Ethiopia enjoys good relations with the USA and others. The Ethiopian military has been rebuilt and reinforced since the 1998-2000 war (which caught Ethiopia demobilized and unprepared). Ethiopia can certainly seize Assab. It would be very difficult for the Eritreans to counter-attack.

Just because Eritrea is a "pariah state" doesn't mean that other countries would just let Ethiopia seize Assab unilaterally. That would cause a reaction on the other side, I don't believe the Eritreans would just stand by. That might create yet another crisis in the region that is the last thing which is needed in the Horn. For the solution to be dealt with correctly, it must be dealt with diplomatically, not militarily.

^^Do you think 80 million ethiopians would just stand by when Assab was given away as a gift to Eritrea? Hell no, this is not a thing you can solve diplomatically, Issayas would never return assab to Ethiopia so the only solution is unfortunately war.

Well that's because the current Ethiopian government which represents a sliver of the Ethiopian population wants it that way. If you haven't noticed, Ethiopia is quite a large country that can throw its weight around. I doubt that the current unpopular government will survive the next few years and I highly doubt that Ethiopians will agree to a secret deal between two sisterly rebel groups in the past that do not represent them on a sea port that has always belonged to Ethiopia anyways. As Tarrex said, whether it be tomorrow or 10 years from now, it will happen regardless and this is no extremist talking.

^^unfortunately that terrorist is leading you:) i don't think if you have any say whatever:lol: it seems he will be there for sometime:lol: as per the asseb port i think its gone for good:) stop whining and move on that is the bottomline:|

It's traditionally an Ethiopian port. Ethiopia can and will take it.

^^i thought your African American:) good to know your leaning towards Ethiopia:lol:

^^Do you think 80 million ethiopians would just stand by when Assab was given away as a gift to Eritrea? Hell no, this is not a thing you can solve diplomatically, Issayas would never return assab to Ethiopia so the only solution is unfortunately war.

^^very funny indeed:lol: btw when the fighting for badme started i thought it was a matter of hours before Ethiopian soldiers eat their lunch in Asmara:lol: boy i was proven wrong:bash: why now you think its a kinda walk in the park then :dunno:

As carver said the Ethiopian military has been rebuilt and reinforced since 1998. Back in 1998 the Ethio-Eritrean border was open and meles and issayas enjoyed a good relation. Untill 1998 a large share of the Ethiopian military hardware like tanks and jets etc was given to Eritrea and i don't think meles ever would predict that issayas would use it against him.

Today, it is another story

^^Do you think 80 million ethiopians would just stand by when Assab was given away as a gift to Eritrea? Hell no, this is not a thing you can solve diplomatically, Issayas would never return assab to Ethiopia so the only solution is unfortunately war.


do you think the rest of the world would just sit there and let Ethiopia take over Eritrea?

Badme is Eritrean territory but still Ethiopia controls it, Has the world done anything to return Badme to Eritrea?

^^Do you think 80 million ethiopians would just stand by when Assab was given away as a gift to Eritrea? Hell no, this is not a thing you can solve diplomatically, Issayas would never return assab to Ethiopia so the only solution is unfortunately war.

Sad that the only ways to fix things in this region is "war".

unfortunately yes. I can only blame the leaders for making wrong hasty decisions with not the long term consequence in mind. This is not a region used to solve things diplomatically even if i would prefer the diplomatic way out we all know this region isn't matured enough to handle such things. And i guess we know how the algiers-agreement ended too..

Here's the true story of why some people believe Jibuti (it's just easier spelling it that way) belongs to Ethiopia.

Jibuti has always been a rather sparsely populated reigion, sometimes part of Muslim sultanates (Ifat, Aussa, ect), at times under nominal control of the Ethiopian emperors through vassal rulers. In the mid-19th century these were the sultans of Raheita, Tadjoura, and Gobaad. In 1862 France purchased the port of Obock from these rulers, and eventually expanded its domain under a protectorate, named French Somaliland(which meant the local rulers technically retained domestic control under French supervision, but it was basically an outright colony).
As the following map shows it was originally larger than it is today, its size was reduced by Franco-Ethiopian treaties after the First Italo-Ethiopian War. (As were virtually all other neighboring colonies)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/EthiopiaRAND1908.jpg
Ethiopia had always been deeply involved in French Somaliland, and of course we have the Addis-Dire Dawa-Jibuti railroad to attest that, as well as the fact that the central square in Jibuti (was/is?) called the Place Menelik. After French Somaliland became the territory of the Afars and Issas in the late 60's, there were some in the Ethiopian government that reminded the French that the local rulers whom the French had bought their territory from were technically Ethiopian vassals. But by the time Jibuti finally gained indpendence in '77, Ethiopia had had a revolution and was at war with Somalia, and in no state to go claiming territories. It also had no reason to, with Massawa and Assab.
But after Meles gave away Eritrea (yes, I won't just accept Assab, we deserve it all; don't get me started), people yearned for acess to the sea, and people looked to Jibuti as a way to expand without conflict.
But let me make it clear, it's just nostalgia combined with the need to find an outlet for their frustration, everyone knows that an invasion would be economic (closure of the port) and political (Camp Lemonier, anyone?) suicide.

Now a Jibuti-Ethiopia Federation would be interesting, but how would that work?

I don't think Djiboutians would accept it. We may have very good and friendly relations but a Federation is just too much. Our tiny nation would be swallowed by Ethiopia with it's 80 millions. But a greater economic integration would be great as our economies complement each other.

Badme is Eritrean territory but still Ethiopia controls it, Has the world done anything to return Badme to Eritrea?

Tarrex, this is too much. You are literally encouraging war again between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Asseb is in Eritrea, just forget it. Did you know that Djibouti was much bigger and that the French colonial regime gave away the most fertile lands around the Awash river to Ethiopia? We don't claim it, we deal with it. Just do the same, our region is just sick of wars. We've had too much.
We need economic integration and cooperation rather than bloody unnecessary wars.

Come on you cannot compare Djibouti and Ethiopia. Ethiopia is country of 80 milion people and I don't think Ethiopia would like to depend on such small nation as djibouti,this is about national security. I cannot deny that most Ethiopians consider Assab an Ethiopian port. You can't just preach peace when things are upside down. Countries have intrests and Ethiopia's interests do not differ anything with those of Americas. With a growing population and growing market Ethiopia will be forced to seek for her own port. As stormshadow said it's an military and economic advantage and Ethiopia as a big country will certainly not lie low. Many Ethiopians felt betrayed by Meles when he gave away Assab. It's hard for you as non-Ethiopians to understand this but i think i speak for the majority of the Ethiopians here but we will see what the future holds

Too bad that Eritrea and Ethiopia both have such stupid leaders. This should have been dealt during that Algiers agreement.

^^i thought your African American:) good to know your leaning towards Ethiopia:lol:

Yes, Ethiopia has my heart. :nocrook:

(And also the rest of the horn.)

Come on you cannot compare Djibouti and Ethiopia. Ethiopia is country of 80 milion people and I don't think Ethiopia would like to depend on such small nation as djibouti,this is about national security. I cannot deny that most Ethiopians consider Assab an Ethiopian port. You can't just preach peace when things are upside down. Countries have intrests and Ethiopia's interests do not differ anything with those of Americas. With a growing population and growing market Ethiopia will be forced to seek for her own port. As stormshadow said it's an military and economic advantage and Ethiopia as a big country will certainly not lie low. Many Ethiopians felt betrayed by Meles when he gave away Assab. It's hard for you as non-Ethiopians to understand this but i think i speak for the majority of the Ethiopians here but we will see what the future holds
^ This pretty much sums it up.

Meles, the anti-Ethiopian, won't go after Asseb. Issayas will never give up Asseb without war. I don't see any change happening as long as these two idiots control Ethiopia and Eritrea.

Come on you cannot compare Djibouti and Ethiopia. Ethiopia is country of 80 milion people and I don't think Ethiopia would like to depend on such small nation as djibouti,this is about national security. I cannot deny that most Ethiopians consider Assab an Ethiopian port. You can't just preach peace when things are upside down. Countries have intrests and Ethiopia's interests do not differ anything with those of Americas. With a growing population and growing market Ethiopia will be forced to seek for her own port. As stormshadow said it's an military and economic advantage and Ethiopia as a big country will certainly not lie low. Many Ethiopians felt betrayed by Meles when he gave away Assab. It's hard for you as non-Ethiopians to understand this but i think i speak for the majority of the Ethiopians here but we will see what the future holds

And what if "Ethiopia's national interests" are a threat to neighbouring countries? You are talking as if Ethiopia alone exists. I am not defending Eritrea here (we had an aggression from them) but it is illegal for you to claim an Eritrean city.
For Djibouti (which gets most of it's resources from the Port activities), it is in our national interest to offer such services to Ethiopia because not only it brings a lot of money, but also we import almost all our vegetables and Qat from Ethiopia and soon electricity too. Djibouti is not in a position of refusing Ethiopia to use it's ports, it's in our interest. So stop the Djibouti pretext and don't let your nationalism be a source of tensions.
We can all live in peace and harmony side by side.

you don't seem to get the point..

And what if "Ethiopia's national interests" are a threat to neighbouring countries? You are talking as if Ethiopia alone exists. I am not defending Eritrea here (we had an aggression from them) but it is illegal for you to claim an Eritrean city.
For Djibouti (which gets most of it's resources from the Port activities), it is in our national interest to offer such services to Ethiopia because not only it brings a lot of money, but also we import almost all our vegetables and Qat from Ethiopia and soon electricity too. Djibouti is not in a position of refusing Ethiopia to use it's ports, it's in our interest. So stop the Djibouti pretext and don't let your nationalism be a source of tensions.
We can all live in peace and harmony side by side.
Do you know that Djibouti recently increased their port taxes? Are we just supposed to sit and accept that, what if Djibouti increases their taxes every year?

What if Djibouti and Ethiopia have an "politcal dispute" one day and we are refused port access, what will happend to us then?

Your argument is basicly.. "Djibouti needs Ethiopia to be landlocked, so stop claiming your port..I mean.. Eritrean city".

Ethiopia, with or without Asseb will still have an interest in Djibouti. Asseb can serve the northen part of the country, Djibouti the east and south. Besides, you have a small populaton.. you can easily educate your population. You also probably get a lot from those French and American military bases too. Djibouti is the only country in Africa with an American military base.

Wishing a 80 million population, poor country, to be landlocked is imo very selfish. Besides, isn't Eritrea currently occupying Djibouti land? You are indirectly siding with them.

Do you know that Djibouti recently increased their port taxes? Are we just supposed to sit and accept that, what if Djibouti increases their taxes every year?

What if Djibouti and Ethiopia have an "politcal dispute" one day and we are refused port access, what will happend to us then?
Your argument is basicly.. "Djibouti needs Ethiopia to be landlocked, so stop claiming your port..I mean.. Eritrean city".

Ethiopia, with or without Asseb will still have an interest in Djibouti. Asseb can serve the northen part of the country, Djibouti the east and south. Besides, you have a small populaton.. you can easily educate your population. You also probably get a lot from those French and American military bases too. Djibouti is the only country in Africa with an American military base.

Wishing a 80 million population, poor country, to be landlocked is imo very selfish. Besides, isn't Eritrea currently occupying Djibouti land? You are indirectly siding with them.

Brothers, you are not getting the point. Djibouti exports all it's raw food from Ethiopia! We will soon import electricity too. Basically, Ethiopia controls our food and electricity supply, do you think we are in a position of one day refusing Ethiopia to use our ports? In reaction, Ethiopia will cut off its food and electricity supplies and we're gonna be in a deep shit. What you need to understand is that, beside the fact that Ethiopians using our ports brings money, we need Ethiopia even more than they need us. We are not in a position to refuse them our sea coast.

For the Djibouti developement thing, yes its much easier to devellop a country like Djibouti than Ethiopia (with its 80 millions). A lot of progress has been made, currently Djibouti is the country with the highest standards of living in the region (even though we still have a long way to go), the lowest corruption, the highest GDP/capita, the most urbanised ect...without forgetting the unprecedented influx of Foreign Direct Investment these last years. But an extra effort and seriously tackling the issue of corruption would greatly contribute to developing the country. But I doubt that will happen under the current gouvernement.

For Eritrea, you are right, they are illegally occupying Djiboutian land and it's deplorable, and if I should side with either Ethiopia or Eritrea, I would go Ethiopia, but it's a question of principle. Until now, you guys didn't explain how Asseb is Ethiopian and not Eritrean. Until then, Asseb is Eritrean for me.

Brothers, you are not getting the point. Djibouti exports all it's raw food from Ethiopia! We will soon import electricity too. Basically, Ethiopia controls our food and electricity supply, do you think we are in a position of one day refusing Ethiopia to use our ports? In reaction, Ethiopia will cut off its food and electricity supplies and we're gonna be in a deep shit. What you need to understand is that, beside the fact that Ethiopians using our ports brings money, we need Ethiopia even more than they need us. We are not in a position to refuse them our sea coast.

I understand that we both need each other NOW, but my point is that we never know how the future looks.

For example, when Somalia stabilizes, it's not totally unbelieable that Djibouti leans toward Somalia instead. You might import electricity via Eritrea/Somalia one day. Same with food supply etc. You also have a strong country like Saudi Arabia not too far away.

I believe that Ethiopia shouldn't take any risks.

For Eritrea, you are right, they are illegally occupying Djiboutian land and it's deplorable, and if I should side with either Ethiopia or Eritrea, I would go Ethiopia, but it's a question of principle. Until now, you guys didn't explain how Asseb is Ethiopian and not Eritrean. Until then, Asseb is Eritrean for me.

Eritrea have been a part of Ethiopia for 3000 years, now some white guys open up a shop and a couple of years later, they have a right to declare "independency"? Eritrea shouldn't even have a right to exist in the first place, but we don't care about that. After being one country for 3000 years, we AT LEAST deserv a little (for Eritrea) useless port far away from any big Eritrean city.

Now if I put a side my emotions :).. One argument is that, by giving the regions around Asseb to Eritrea, the UN automatically divied the Afar population (which are a majority in that reigion) - who said that the Afars wanted to be divied? Ethiopia should never agree to the Algier agreement. They can have Badme, but Asseb? Never.

When Eritrea declared independence, Assab was never meant to be included. Eritrea were going to have her independence with her own port "Massawa" and Ethiopia were going to keep Assab as her port which sounds logical. Suddenly, Meles gave away Assab too though facing strong criticism.

Ras siyan the difference between Djibouti and Ethiopia is, if Ethiopia would cut the qat and food you still would have plenty of options to satisfy your needs. If djibouti would deny Ethiopia access to the sea, then Ethiopia would find herself in a really bad position, because there is no infrastructure in place to switch our imports and exports through kenya nor somalia.

When Eritrea declared independence, Assab was never meant to be included. Eritrea were going to have her independence with her own port "Massawa" and Ethiopia were going to keep Assab as her port which sounds logical. Suddenly, Meles gave away Assab too though facing strong criticism.

Ras siyan the difference between Djibouti and Ethiopia is, if Ethiopia would cut the qat and food you still would have plenty of options to satisfy your needs. If djibouti would deny Ethiopia access to the sea, then Ethiopia would find herself in a really bad position, because there is no infrastructure in place to switch our imports and exports through kenya nor somalia.

Meles gave away Eritrea entirely. It's completely reasonable to believe that they could reached an agreement with the EPDRF to remain in Ethiopia. :bash:

Let it be known I think that I don't think Djibouti is part of Ethiopia. The whole "vassal of the emperor" hypothesis is too weak to be supported.

When Ethiopians talk about Asseb they mean the whole area inhabited by Afars, that is the whole area from south Missewa to the Djibouti border.
In addition Djibouti belongs to Ethiopia too as it was leased 1878 to France for 99 years, just like Hong Kong.
There is no doubt with the change of government in Ethiopia this issue will be raised.


I presume that, if this was to happen, a narrow land corridor would also be added to connect Asseb to Ethiopia.

Meaning that Djibouti and Eritrea would not be neighbors anymore.

I understand that Ethiopians desire a port of their own, and it was their most used one before handing it over, but it won't be really easy for them to just get it back, especially since they were fighting with Eritrea over a much less important village (Badme) just a few years ago.

Of course Djibouti belonged to Ethiopia, read above.
The European and western powers have done monumental injustice to Ethiopia, it is a matter of time that that injustice will be corrected.:cheers:

Meles gave away Eritrea entirely. It's completely reasonable to believe that they could reached an agreement with the EPDRF to remain in Ethiopia. :bash:

Let it be known I think that I don't think Djibouti is part of Ethiopia. The whole "vassal of the emperor" hypothesis is too weak to be supported.

Until now, you guys didn't explain how Asseb is Ethiopian and not Eritrean. Until then, Asseb is Eritrean for me.

1. Ethiopia and Eritrea were one country for thousands of years (3000 years of record). The ONLY period of time we were separated during our entire history was during the Italian colonization of Eritrea that lasted 50 years.
IOW, Assab was part of Ethiopia (known as Abyssinia at the time) for long stretches of time during our history. Sometimes it was occupied by foreign forces, like Egyptians and Ottomans during invasions, but it always reverted back to Abyssinia.

2. When Mussolini's forces invaded Ethiopia in 1936 from Eritrea, they breached the treaty that delineated the Ethiopian-Italian colony (i.e. Eritrea) border. It means that according to international law, that treaty is not valid any longer. IOW, when Eritrea declared independence, the entire border could and should have been renegotiated. Meles did not do that.

3. Eritrea never used the port of Assab. It was exclusively used by Ethiopia. Look at the map, does it make any sense for Eritrea to use it? It has never used it since Massawa (pronounced Mitsiwa) has been the port of Eritrea traditionally. When you look at Eritrea's shape, it's clear that the intent was to remove Ethiopia's access to the sea (both by Italians in the 19th Century and Meles and Issayas in the 20th).
In fact, after the border war in 98-2000, the port was closed and is now unused and rusting.

4. When Eritrea gained independence, the man who lead the negotiations (I think he was the US' Secretary of African Affairs) declared right after the talks and several times afterward (including in a book he wrote) that Issayas was willing to negotiate the coastline's distribution but Meles refused!!! WTH is that???

5. During the border deliberation in the first part of this decade, again, the colonial maps were used to tell Ethiopia that Badme is Eritrean. Like I said, those maps are based on a treaty that is no longer valid and they are again used against Ethiopian interests. Make no mistake that when the issue of Assab is brought up, these same invalid maps will be brought out to tell Ethiopia to stay landlocked.


So in light of all this, you can see why Ethiopians are wondering why Meles is giving our territory away. He is not democratically elected and he's doing something that the population is completely against. IOW, the average Ethiopian doesn't give a damn about diplomacy, blah blah, because how has that helped us? The entire world sat and watched while our dictator was carving up the nation to his liking and giving away our entire coastline, something we've had for thousands of years, and making us the largest landlocked country in the world, giving away our navy and weakening our national security in one of the most volatile regions of the world.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/images/smiles/eating_popcorn.gif

Good luck taking "back" Assab ! One would think you would spend your energy trying to feed and educate your fast-increasing population and curb its growth but noooooo, you want to fight a people who hate your guts because of your imperialist occupation for decades, tough it makes you feel important, have humiliated them profoundly. My father is a citizen of Djibouti and I don't really like Eritrea right now but It will be unfair to not recognize their just struggle against the Ethiopians for the freedom of their country. I have noticed several times that Ethiopians like to sprinkle their opinions about the current state of the Horn with some stinking and backward imperialist and nationalistic comments. And that is to be oblivious to the reality of Ethiopia: a very very poor country, with a very fast growing, very largely uneducated population and tons of inter-ethnic problems. I have been to Ethiopia 4 times while visiting Djibouti and I couldn't help but to notice how only the Habeshas people are the only ones thinking everybody is happy to be Ethiopian. I think Ethiopia is a great and beautiful country and all I'm saying is that diaspora Ethiopians seem to be cut from its reality: Ethiopia is not to speak about its foreign interests when the interior is such a mess and it doesn't take some nice looking buildings in Addis Abeba's good neighborhoods to make Ethiopia a regional power but it seems to be enough for some people. I wish you all the best nonetheless because Ethiopians deserves it.
And Djibouti was certainly under the sphere of influence of Abyssinia for centuries but was never under their dominion neither were the Afar and Somalian sultanates who were circumstantial vassals or allies when not usually mortal enemies of the Ethiopian kingdoms. Ethiopia have an interesting history and there is no need to add to it, to give a larger scale it didn't really have as a lot of ethnic groups in Ethiopia today had their own states for centuries and rivaled the Shewans in everything. Only since Menelik is Ethiopia an empire.

Good luck taking "back" Assab !
Thanks!:cheers:

Having a port is part of solving all those issues you mentioned, let the future decide

Not to create issues but several people in Addis during a holiday there were convinced that Djibouti is a "lost" province of Ethiopia and that one day it should "come" back. As well as a lot of Ethiopian forumers claiming that Djibouti belongs to Ethiopia.
Obviously such comments are offensing for most Djiboutians who feel insulted in their soverainty, but my question here is: Do you guys feel the same? Are the people with such views a minority in Ethiopia? What created such ideas. Anyway, working on a project about Djibouti's relations with neighbouring countries and I would like to address the issue. Your help on the matter would be welcomed.

I have never heard Ethiopians claim Djibouti, they claim Asseb but strangely enough not the rest of Eritrea:nuts:

^^ ;)

I have never heard Ethiopians claim Djibouti, they claim Asseb but strangely enough not the rest of Eritrea:nuts:

Well, I for one, do. I want beautiful Asmara and Arabesque Massawa! :lol:
Read this article:

Badme: Village in no man's land
Badme residents
Small, dusty Badme spawned the Ethiopia-Eritrea war
test hello test

By Nita Bhalla
BBC Ethiopia correspondent
line

Life in Badme goes on as normal. Children play table tennis in the street, women wash clothes on the doorsteps, off-duty soldiers laze under the trees.

There is no sign in this sleepy, dusty village of the aggressive propaganda row that has broken out over who owns Badme - the tiny place that spawned a bloody war between Eritrea and Ethiopia.

Badme residents play table tennis
Life has been continuing as usual
Located on the western section of the nebulous border between the two countries, Badme has little more than an elementary school, a clinic, a few bars and a couple of very modest hotels.

But tens of thousands died in the two-and-a-half year war that started when Eritrean forces arrived here in May 1998.

Claiming it to be Eritrean territory, they occupied the village, which was then under Ethiopian administration.

Click here for a map of the region

War broke out and spread across the 1,000km (650-mile) border in a conflict which brought untold suffering to hundreds of thousands of people on both sides.

A peace agreement was signed by both countries in December 2000.

Counter claims

As part of it, the independent Eritrea-Ethiopia Boundary Commission (EEBC) was set up to delimit the disputed border.

Badme residents
The villagers say Badme has been in Ethiopia for generations
But when it revealed its decision on 13 April, the status of Badme was far from clear.

Eager to appease their people and justify the bloody conflict, both governments have since launched propaganda campaigns claiming that the EEBC has awarded Badme to them.

But in Badme itself, now under Ethiopian administration again, little has changed.

The 5,000 people living in the village and surrounding area make their meagre living from farming, growing crops like sorghum and sesame.

The young boys tend to their cattle and livestock, the women bathe their infants in the midday sun, the soldiers enjoy the local brew at lunchtime in the bars and cafes.

If President Isaias of Eritrea wants Badme, let him try and take it - we are ready for him and his army

Most people here say they are Ethiopians, and, as far as they are concerned, they live in Ethiopia.

"I simply don't understand why there is confusion. We are Ethiopians and we have been in Badme for generations," said 47-year-old farmer, Haile Gebre.

"It has historically been in Ethiopia and will always remain so. We were occupied by Eritreans for almost a year and we don't want them back," he said.

"We are, however, the same people. Ethiopians and Eritreans are brothers and all we want is to live with them in peace.

"I want things to go back to the way they were before the war, but they have to accept that Badme is Ethiopian," he added.



Habtom Tedla, a 61-year-old farmer, said the Ethiopian Government had said the boundary commission had confirmed that their home was in Ethiopia.

"So who can tell us differently?", he asked.


"If President Isaias of Eritrea wants Badme, let him try and take it. For sure, we are ready for him and his army," he said.

Residents say they want peace but simply will not entertain the idea that the place where generations of their families have lived could go to Eritrea.

According to the Head of Administration, Wolde Giorgis Wolde Mariam, about 1,000 Eritreans lived here before the war.

Most have now fled and are in camps for the internally displaced in Eritrea. These Eritreans, who have also lived in Badme for generations, believe Badme is part of Eritrea.

Map confusion

The confusion over Badme is quite simply that.

Although maps are included in the 135-page report which details the boundary commission's decision, none of them show where Badme village actually lies.

Yet more confusing are the different sets of maps - which have different scales - used by all the concerned parties. The EEBC has been using the latest maps available, but these are different from those the Ethiopians and Eritreans have.

The issue may be somewhat clarified once the co-ordinates mentioned in the EEBC decision have been plotted on standardised maps.

But detailed satellite imagery is also needed to determine the actual border route, before it can by marked out on the ground.

Experts say this will take six days. Even then, it is unlikely that any official clarification will be made until physical demarcation is completed by the middle of next year.

Boundary posts

No authority involved in settling the dispute - the EEBC, the UN peacekeeping mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea (UNMEE), which is overseeing the bilateral cease-fire, nor the Organisation for African Unity - will comment on Badme's status.

Despite the political tension, there appear to be no signs of a military build-up in the area and the situation seems calm and stable. But the claims and counter claims continue.

It seems Badme's residents are not likely to know officially if they are in Ethiopia or Eritrea until boundary pillars are finally placed along the border.

Well, I for one, do. I want beautiful Asmara and Arabesque Massawa! :lol:
Read this article:

Simfan not all Ethiopians are as deep as you, some believe it or not just want Eritrea for its port:ohno::D
Eritrea's foreign influences make it a fascinating place, its a shame the condition the country is in now.
I don't think Eritrea will try and take Badme there's 80 million of you and 4 million of them and they came out of that war better then they could have ever dreamt.

Tarrex, this is too much. You are literally encouraging war again between Ethiopia and Eritrea. Asseb is in Eritrea, just forget it. Did you know that Djibouti was much bigger and that the French colonial regime gave away the most fertile lands around the Awash river to Ethiopia? We don't claim it, we deal with it. Just do the same, our region is just sick of wars. We've had too much.
We need economic integration and cooperation rather than bloody unnecessary wars.

Lets be honest Djibouti is trying to manage tensions between Ethiopia and Eritrea for purely selfish reasons. The ironic thing is the loss of asseb to Ethiopia is a greater loss to Djibouti then it is to Eritrea. Since Ethiopia would no longer require the literally one billion dollar service which Djibouti kindly provides:D

The nature of Ethiopia's exports which are low value per tonnage means that the Country will never be able to properly develop with out its own port. The reason why many Ethiopians have settled on the idea of claiming Asseb is that its the only option. now that Djibouti is effectively a Western Military garrison it is unoccupiable and as for Somalia who really wants to mess with al shabab and the pirates of the red sea:D

The only reason to why Assab already isn't part of Ethiopia is the anti-Ethiopian Melese Zenawi. Eritrea is lucky that Ethiopia isn't ruled by real Ethiopians, just a bunch of dolls, not only Assab but Asmera would had been part of Ethiopia once again.. they didn't have a chance during the war, but I guess they have a stronger force now.

I personally only care about Assab, just like you say, Ethiopia's future depend on it.

I personally only care about Assab, just like you say, Ethiopia's future depend on it.

It is true Eritrea has very few friends unlike Djibouti and Somalia who can rely on various parties to support them. The only Country that Eritrea has good relations with in the region is Sudan, however Sudan will not bail out Eritrea in case of a war because it also shares good relations with Ethiopia.
Regardless of this I don't think taking assab would be a good idea, the war that it unleashes will drive both Countries in to even deeper poverty.

When Ethiopians talk about Asseb they mean the whole area inhabited by Afars, that is the whole area from south Missewa to the Djibouti border.
In addition Djibouti belongs to Ethiopia too as it was leased 1878 to France for 99 years, just like Hong Kong.
There is no doubt with the change of government in Ethiopia this issue will be raised.

:lol: Holy smokes ! Next you will say that you leased Egypt to the Berbers 7000 years ago but they cheated you and never returned it. Crazy does it for you, huh? :nuts:

:lol: Holy smokes ! Next you will say that you leased Egypt to the Berbers 7000 years ago but they cheated you and never returned it. Crazy does it for you, huh? :nuts:

the lease on Egypt runs out in 2010:D

Good luck taking "back" Assab ! One would think you would spend your energy trying to feed and educate your fast-increasing population and curb its growth but noooooo, you want to fight a people who hate your guts because of your imperialist occupation for decades, tough it makes you feel important, have humiliated them profoundly. My father is a citizen of Djibouti and I don't really like Eritrea right now but It will be unfair to not recognize their just struggle against the Ethiopians for the freedom of their country. I have noticed several times that Ethiopians like to sprinkle their opinions about the current state of the Horn with some stinking and backward imperialist and nationalistic comments. And that is to be oblivious to the reality of Ethiopia: a very very poor country, with a very fast growing, very largely uneducated population and tons of inter-ethnic problems. I have been to Ethiopia 4 times while visiting Djibouti and I couldn't help but to notice how only the Habeshas people are the only ones thinking everybody is happy to be Ethiopian. I think Ethiopia is a great and beautiful country and all I'm saying is that diaspora Ethiopians seem to be cut from its reality: Ethiopia is not to speak about its foreign interests when the interior is such a mess and it doesn't take some nice looking buildings in Addis Abeba's good neighborhoods to make Ethiopia a regional power but it seems to be enough for some people. I wish you all the best nonetheless because Ethiopians deserves it.
And Djibouti was certainly under the sphere of influence of Abyssinia for centuries but was never under their dominion neither were the Afar and Somalian sultanates who were circumstantial vassals or allies when not usually mortal enemies of the Ethiopian kingdoms. Ethiopia have an interesting history and there is no need to add to it, to give a larger scale it didn't really have as a lot of ethnic groups in Ethiopia today had their own states for centuries and rivaled the Shewans in everything. Only since Menelik is Ethiopia an empire.

^^ i agree with you its only the habashas who have the notion that all Ethiopians are happy and they will colonize the rest of the community again by manipulating in the name of united Ethiopia:lol::lol: believe me Ethiopia is a time bomb waiting to explode anytime:bash: the largest community are frustrated the oromo and the ogadenia you know the story nothing to tell you how do you want to unite people who have nothing in common? remember your not in power too:lol: simple facts everybody hates zenawi facts and everybody hates habasha leadership:lol: so what will happen after zenawi they is vacuum anything is possible and remember after all its not democracy where the peoples voice are respected so nothing will hold them together

^^ i agree with you its only the habashas who have the notion that all Ethiopians are happy and they will colonize the rest of the community again by manipulating in the name of united Ethiopia:lol::lol: believe me Ethiopia is a time bomb waiting to explode anytime:bash: the largest community are frustrated the oromo and the ogadenia you know the story nothing to tell you how do you want to unite people who have nothing in common? remember your not in power too:lol: simple facts everybody hates zenawi facts and everybody hates habasha leadership:lol: so what will happen after zenawi they is vacuum anything is possible and remember after all its not democracy where the peoples voice are respected so nothing will hold them together
No one is "Happy" right now, do you see anyone here cheering for Melese?

Even tho the scenario you just stated is yours, Mawras and probably many more Somalis biggest dream, there is a little risk that Ethiopia "explodes" like you beautifully stated.. but I seriously doubt it.

The reasons why I doubt it is because:

The large majority, including the Oromo speaking population feel Ethiopian. There is no question about that. There are some small separatist groups making noise in the West, but they are irrelevant in Ethiopia.

We have read about the attacks by the ONLF, when was the last time you've read anything about the OLF? Wouldn't you think that OLF would make larger damaged considering that the Oromos are a much bigger group in Ethiopia than the Somalis? If the OLF would had the support you think they have, believe me, Ethiopia would had looked like Somalia a long time ago.

Also, you should know that Half-Amharas and Half-Oromos, if the father is Oromo, is only stated as an Oromo in the official statistics and everyone know that marriage between Oromos and Amharas is VERY common in regions around Addis.

About Ogaden.. as long as you don't give back South Somalia to the Oromos, you can continue dreaming about Ogaden. ;)

:lol: Holy smokes ! Next you will say that you leased Egypt to the Berbers 7000 years ago but they cheated you and never returned it. Crazy does it for you, huh? :nuts:
I don't get it. So you claim that the leasing of Djibouti, by Ethiopia to France, is false?

It is true Eritrea has very few friends unlike Djibouti and Somalia who can rely on various parties to support them. The only Country that Eritrea has good relations with in the region is Sudan, however Sudan will not bail out Eritrea in case of a war because it also shares good relations with Ethiopia.
Regardless of this I don't think taking assab would be a good idea, the war that it unleashes will drive both Countries in to even deeper poverty.
There is never anything good with War, but what would you have done in Ethiopia's situation?

Is the Sudan/Eritrea "war of words" as BBC put it, totally forgotten now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3755488.stm


Eritrea has accused Sudan of trying to assassinate President Isaias Afeworki and of government terrorism.

Meanwhile, Sudan's security chief, Saleh Gosh has accused Eritrea of wanting to topple the Sudanese government by supporting rebels.

I tell ya, what a F-up region the Horn is.

There is never anything good with War, but what would you have done in Ethiopia's situation?

Is the Sudan/Eritrea "war of words" as BBC put it, totally forgotten now?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3755488.stm



I tell ya, what a F-up region the Horn is.

Tensions peaked in 2005 when Sudan notified the UN that it intended to use force against Eritrea. Suddenly Eritrea softens the rhetoric and reels in its proxy rebels. I don't think either side has forgotten its just convenient for both sides to pretend they have forgotten:D

in my opinion a war between Eritrea and Ethiopia will not achieve anything. Eritrea will most likely be decimated, but they can hold on long enough for a UN resolution and international pressure to force a cease fire, before land is lost. Also any claim to assab with out claiming the rest of Eritrea will seem illegitimate.
What I suggest is Ethiopia gets itself off the barrel Djibouti has it over. Djibouti realises you have to pay what ever it charges, because you have no other choice. If Ethiopia starts using other ports it will force Djibouti's prices down. Djibouti has to be a little bit more flexible in its pricing to maintain Ethiopian business.

Tensions peaked in 2005 when Sudan notified the UN that it intended to use force against Eritrea. Suddenly Eritrea softens the rhetoric and reels in its proxy rebels. I don't think either side has forgotten its just convenient for both sides to pretend they have forgotten:D

in my opinion a war between Eritrea and Ethiopia will not achieve anything. Eritrea will most likely be decimated, but they can hold on long enough for a UN resolution and international pressure to force a cease fire, before land is lost. Also any claim to assab with out claiming the rest of Eritrea will seem illegitimate.
What I suggest is Ethiopia gets itself off the barrel Djibouti has it over. Djibouti realises you have to pay what ever it charges, because you have no other choice. If Ethiopia starts using other ports it will force Djibouti's prices down. Djibouti has to be a little bit more flexible in its pricing to maintain Ethiopian business.

Ethiopia must Pay us the price of the Market and you make it seem like Eriteria is some kind of weak country. Those people are crazy and are basically like Israel waiting for a War with Ethiopia at any minute. Their whole country is based on defending themselves against Ethiopia. Ethiopian Military is already stretched and i doubt Melez would be foolish enough to go to a War with Eriteria. :)

The only reason to why Assab already isn't part of Ethiopia is the anti-Ethiopian Melese Zenawi. Eritrea is lucky that Ethiopia isn't ruled by real Ethiopians, just a bunch of dolls, not only Assab but Asmera would had been part of Ethiopia once again.. they didn't have a chance during the war, but I guess they have a stronger force now.

I personally only care about Assab, just like you say, Ethiopia's future depend on it.

For me its either all or nothing. Look at this:

http://www.africanmarket.com/productpics/lady%20full%202%20color.jpg
Ethiopian clothes

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/3473943013_e2fdf497f6.jpg
Eritrean clothes

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/204/466145121_2b4eb8555a.jpg
Ethiopian food

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2809072741_a51fb46164.jpg
Eritrean food

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/art/Young_500.jpg
Ethiopian religious ceremony

http://www.asmera.nl/eritrea2005/eritrea552109.jpg
Eritrean religious ceremony

http://users.telenet.be/african-shop/images/Ethiopian_art-Mounted_Warrier_10274press.jpg
Ethiopian art

http://www.freewebs.com/smarytewahdockw/Mariam1.JPG
Eritrean art

It goes on...

Ethiopia must Pay us the price of the Market and you make it seem like Eriteria is some kind of weak country. Those people are crazy and are basically like Israel waiting for a War with Ethiopia at any minute. Their whole country is based on defending themselves against Ethiopia. Ethiopian Military is already stretched and i doubt Melez would be foolish enough to go to a War with Eriteria. :)

firstly who is "us" are you Somali or Eritrean? In any case there is no market price.
So where comparing Eritrea with a $250 GDP to Israel, I despise Israel but am not going to deny their capabilities. Ethiopia with a population 20 times the size of Eritrea's would be the one stretched in a war:nuts: you can't be seriouse:lol:
Eritrea is the clear under dog.

I hope we exploit that fact soon, we must correct Meles's mistake.

In any case there is no market price.



Exactly!

firstly who is "us" are you Somali or Eritrean? In any case there is no market price.

Somali and Djiboutian.

There is a market Price and its called Tariff's. :nuts:

So where comparing Eritrea with a $250 GDP to Israel, I despise Israel but am not going to deny their capabilities. Ethiopia with a population 20 times the size of Eritrea's would be the one stretched in a war:nuts: you can't be seriouse:lol:
Eritrea is the clear under dog.

Eriteria doesnt Face an insurgency and another War Front unlike Ethiopia which does and i compared them to Israel because each has the mentality that a War is Imminent. What makes you think Ethiopia could defeat Eriteria which is now a state and is much more organized than it was before. They have already Defeated the ethiopian's before.

No one is "Happy" right now, do you see anyone here cheering for Melese?

Even tho the scenario you just stated is yours, Mawras and probably many more Somalis biggest dream, there is a little risk that Ethiopia "explodes" like you beautifully stated.. but I seriously doubt it.

The reasons why I doubt it is because:

The large majority, including the Oromo speaking population feel Ethiopian. There is no question about that. There are some small separatist groups making noise in the West, but they are irrelevant in Ethiopia.

We have read about the attacks by the ONLF, when was the last time you've read anything about the OLF? Wouldn't you think that OLF would make larger damaged considering that the Oromos are a much bigger group in Ethiopia than the Somalis? If the OLF would had the support you think they have, believe me, Ethiopia would had looked like Somalia a long time ago.

Also, you should know that Half-Amharas and Half-Oromos, if the father is Oromo, is only stated as an Oromo in the official statistics and everyone know that marriage between Oromos and Amharas is VERY common in regions around Addis.

About Ogaden.. as long as you don't give back South Somalia to the Oromos, you can continue dreaming about Ogaden. ;)


Dont Give us back an ounce of Land because we will take it by a Gun.

?????

:lock::lock::lock::lock::lock::lock::lock::lock:

Eriteria doesnt Face an insurgency and another War Front unlike Ethiopia which does and i compared them to Israel because each has the mentality that a War is Imminent. What makes you think Ethiopia could defeat Eriteria which is now a state and is much more organized than it was before. They have already Defeated the ethiopian's before.

Firstly if you read my posts you will see that I said that Eritrea will be able to hold on to assab in a war long enough for international pressure to force Ethiopia out, what am saying is that Eritrea will come out worse in a war due to its size.
Oh and Eritrea does have a rebellion just like most African Countries.

Ethiopia must Pay us the price of the Market and you make it seem like Eriteria is some kind of weak country. Those people are crazy and are basically like Israel waiting for a War with Ethiopia at any minute. Their whole country is based on defending themselves against Ethiopia. Ethiopian Military is already stretched and i doubt Melez would be foolish enough to go to a War with Eriteria. :)
What makes Eritreans crazy, you make them sound like Rambo. :lol:

Ethiopian military is stretched, by who? ONLF? :lol:

Only reason to why Assab is part of Eritrea is Melese Zenawi, who pressured by the UN i guess, retreated when Eritrea was totally defeated.

[/B]

Dont Give us back an ounce of Land because we will take it by a Gun.

Alright, then stop complain about Ogaden. :gunz: ;)

Alright, then stop complain about Ogaden. :gunz: ;)

Well Dont come in here than and always cry about ONLF this ONLF that. As i said just as Eriteria got their freedom by the Gun so shall Ogaden.
:)

What makes Eritreans crazy, you make them sound like Rambo. :lol:

Ethiopian military is stretched, by who? ONLF? :lol:

Only reason to why Assab is part of Eritrea is Melese Zenawi, who pressured by the UN i guess, retreated when Eritrea was totally defeated.

Typical Amhara. Your boogyman must be Meles. Eriteria Defeated you and history show's it other wise knowing Ethiopia it would have never granted them freedom.:lol:

Typical Amhara. Your boogyman must be Meles. Eriteria Defeated you and history show's it other wise knowing Ethiopia it would have never granted them freedom.:lol:
I wouldn't care if that was the case, but sorry to disappoint you Marwa, that's not how it went down. If you're really interested, google it.

Well Dont come in here than and always cry about ONLF this ONLF that. As i said just as Eriteria got their freedom by the Gun so shall Ogaden.
:)
Always cry about ONLF? :lol: :nuts: I am not worried by the ONLF, they are being taken care of.

We won't get any further in this discussion, let the best man win. :cheers:

Ethiopia is an imperialist's dream. The Abyssinians had forcefully tried to incorporate Eritrea into its fake kingdom and strip Eritreans of their heritage. As time told, they were met with failure and suffered the consequences as thousands of Ethiopians were at the mercy of Eritrean liberation heroes in two wars. Let that be a lesson to them. Djibouti is Djibouti and will continue to be Djibouti as long as French and American military bases are there. The Ethiopians answer to America. As for Ethiopia as a state, its future is uncertain. Ogaden will finally be reunited with their mother Somalia once it becomes stable. The Oromos will finally have Ethiopia back in majority rule and the Abyssinians will receive retribution for atrocites they have committed against the state and the Ethiopian people.

Abyssinians=Abesha=Tigrinya=Eritrean=You
Oromos will be coming for you too!

Always cry about ONLF? :lol: :nuts: I am not worried by the ONLF, they are being taken care of.

We won't get any further in this discussion, let the best man win. :cheers:

Sure let the best man win just make sure you flee to Highland's because you will never Rule Ogaden. Ironic that you cry democracy, and that Melez is bad and yet somehow favor the people of Ogaden being Denied their self determination as per your constatitution.. Hypocrisy at its best. :cheers:

Abyssinians=Abesha=Tigrinya=Eritrean=You
Oromos will be coming for you too!

Eritrea was never a part of Abyssinia which is Tigray-Gonder and FYI I do no share your ethnicity of Agaw heritage, I'm 100% Agazian. My people were practicing Christianity and writing scripts while your people were still pagan and illiterate. Just be thanksful we gave you an alphabet and a bit of our culture. But sorry to disappoint you, I know how you Ethiopians love to cling on to us like an unwanted child. No worries an electrical fence will be put up soon on our borders :)

It seems that both sides are trying to rewrite history in their favour.
Ethiopia is a product of Italian East Africa that grouped Abyssinia with the Oromo region, Ogaden region, Eritrea and so on. For this reason Abyssinian or Habash only refers to the Tigrey and amhara. The name Ethiopia historically did not belong to the region but was the name given to Kush by the Romans. It was adopted as an all inclusive name for the Country by Hail Selassie for its Biblical significance.

It seems that both sides are trying to rewrite history in their favour.
Ethiopia is a product of Italian East Africa that grouped Abyssinia with the Oromo region, Ogaden region, Eritrea and so on. For this reason Abyssinian or Habash only refers to the Tigrey and amhara. The name Ethiopia historically did not belong to the region but was the name given to Kush by the Romans. It was adopted as an all inclusive name for the Country by Hail Selassie for its Biblical significance.

:) the name "Ethiopia" was adopted Haile Selassie to legitimize his kingdom. He would go on to follow his predecessor Menelik II in annexing territories for his Ethiopian kingdom. Let it be noted that Menelik II was of Oromo ancestry, but Amharic speaking and Selassie was half, which is the classic example of colonialism of the minority elite. Ethiopia today is multi-ethnic where no one can claim one ethnicity. That is the irony in Ethiopia's racist segregation policies.

Sure let the best man win just make sure you flee to Highland's because you will never Rule Ogaden. Ironic that you cry democracy, and that Melez is bad and yet somehow favor the people of Ogaden being Denied their self determination as per your constatitution.. Hypocrisy at its best. :cheers:
A constitution written by a dictatorial anti-Ethiopian government. All I know is that Ogaden is Somali region in Ethiopia.

No worries an electrical fence will be put up soon on our borders :)
So Eritrea REALLY is a prison. :lol:

Ethiopia today is multi-ethnic where no one can claim one ethnicity. That is the irony in Ethiopia's racist segregation policies.
This is probably the only smart thing you've said in your life. :)

A constitution written by a dictatorial government. All I know is that Ogaden is Somali region in Ethiopia.

:lol::lol: If the Goverment is anti-Ethiopian as you say than why are they still fighting to Retain Ogaden? It doesnt make anysense and you still havent answered my question. Why should people be denied a choice. Why Should people who dont want to be a part of your union and never have been be forced?

:lol::lol: If the Goverment is anti-Ethiopian as you say than why are they still fighting to Retain Ogaden? It doesnt make anysense and you still havent answered my question. Why should people be denied a choice. Why Should people who dont want to be a part of your union and never have been be forced?
To retain Ogaden? :lol: Melese is playing in Somalia, Ogaden isn't even a big issue. Melese needs a stable Ethiopia to be able to milk all the money they can get. It's all about $ for them and Ogaden maybe has some of that black gold or natural gas. I don't know how Melese is thinking or what his plans are, but that he is anti-Ethiopia is clear to anyone based on how he handle the Eritrea/Assab situation.

People can't just go around and created their own countries just because they want to. What gives the little minority of the people in Ogaden, to decide over the majority in Ethiopia? Ogaden isn't for Somalis only like you seem to think, and many of those Somalis are recent immigrants from Somalia. If they don't like the rules, I am sure those people are welcomed to move to Somaliland or Puntland.

If they some day decided to work for peace and unity, I am sure the people will benefit more. The only one benefiting now are the "leaders" of ONLF, the people are suffering because of their terrorism.

I don't know how Melese is thinking or what his plans are, but that he is anti-Ethiopia is clear to anyone based on how he handle the Eritrea/Assab situation.


Yes we dare you to come into our land again :) If I were you I'd stick to development. Fighting is not your strong suit.

To retain Ogaden? :lol: Melese is playing in Somalia, Ogaden isn't even a big issue. Melese needs a stable Ethiopia to be able to milk all the money they can get. It's all about $ for them and Ogaden maybe has some of that black gold or natural gas. I don't know how Melese is thinking or what his plans are, but that he is anti-Ethiopia is clear to anyone based on how he handle the Eritrea/Assab situation.

That is the only Reason why most ethiopian's such as urself are after Ogaden. If not for the Oil you woudlnt have cared.

People can't just go around and created their own countries just because they want to. What gives the little minority of the people in Ogaden, to decide over the majority in Ethiopia? Ogaden isn't for Somalis only like you seem to think, and many of those Somalis are recent immigrants from Somalia. If they don't like the rules, I am sure those people are welcomed to move to Somaliland or Puntland.

97% of the population in Ogaden is Somali and Majority favour to not be part of Your country if not why now allow people to vote since you always cry about Democracy? Contrary to your believe people living in War Torn Somalia actually have a higher standard living than those in Ogaden so why would they flee to a place like that.

If they some day decided to work for peace and unity, I am sure the people will benefit more. The only one benefiting now are the "leaders" of ONLF, the people are suffering because of their terrorism.

Unity with Ethiopia is impossible because such a unity with you has never existed. Its like Asking Palestinians and Israeli's to share one flag and country. ONLF is a terriorist to Ogaden People Your Goverment is a Colonizer.

Why do you all hate us so?

It seems that both sides are trying to rewrite history in their favour.
Ethiopia is a product of Italian East Africa that grouped Abyssinia with the Oromo region, Ogaden region, Eritrea and so on. For this reason Abyssinian or Habash only refers to the Tigrey and amhara. The name Ethiopia historically did not belong to the region but was the name given to Kush by the Romans. It was adopted as an all inclusive name for the Country by Hail Selassie for its Biblical significance.

Sorry my friend, the mame Ethiopia was used back to Axumite times.

It is not very certain how old the term Ethiopia is; its earliest attested use appears in the Bible in Genesis chapter two [13] as the origins of where Adam and Eve lived. And also in the Iliad, where it appears twice, and in the Odyssey, where it appears three times [14]. The earliest attested use in the region is as a Christianized name for the Kingdom of Aksum in the 4th century, in stone inscriptions of King Ezana.[15] The Ge'ez name ʾĪtyōṗṗyā and its English cognate are thought by some recent scholars to be derived from the Greek word Αἰθιοπία Aithiopia, from Αἰθίοψ Aithiops ‘an Ethiopian’, derived in turn from Greek words meaning "of burned face".[16] However, the Book of Aksum, a Ge'ez chronicle compiled in the 15th century, countries that the name is derived from "'Ityopp'is" — a son (unmentioned in the Bible) of Cush, son of Ham, who according to legend founded the city of Axum. Pliny the Elder[17] similarlcoutry the tradition that the nation took its name from someone named Aethiops. A third etymology, suggested by the late Ethiopian scholar and poet laureate Tsegaye Gabre-Medhin, traces the name to the "old black Egyptian" words Et (Truth or Peace) Op (high or upper) and Bia (land, country), or "land of higher peace".

In English and generally outside of Ethiopia, the country was also once historically known as Abyssinia, derived from Habesh, an early Arabic form of the Ethiosemitic name "Ḥabaśāt" (unvocalized "ḤBŚT"), modern Habesha, the native name for the country's inhabitants (while the country was called "Ityopp'ya"). In a few languages, Ethiopia is still referred to by names cognate with "Abyssinia," e.g., and modern Arabic Al-Ḥabashah, meaning land of the Habasha people.[citation needed]

The term Habesha, strictly speaking, refers only to the Amhara and Tigray-Tigrinya people who have historically dominated the country politically, and which combined comprise about 36% of Ethiopia's population.[citation needed] Sometimes, the term is used to label the nearly 45% of Ethiopian population who used Semitic languages since ancient times like the Amharic (30.1% of Ethiopian population), Tigray (6.2%), Gurage (4.3%) and other smaller Semitic speaking communities like the Harari people in South east Ethiopia. Though since Amharic became the official language of the country, most of the population of the SNNPR and a significant portion of the Oromia and Benishangul-Gumuz regions use it as a second language. In contrast, in contemporary Ethiopia, the word Habesha is often used to describe all Ethiopians and Eritreans.[citation needed] Abyssinia can strictly refer to just the northwestern Ethiopian provinces of Amhara and Tigray as well as central Eritrea, while it was historically used as another name for Ethiopia.[18]

Ethiopia has also been known to be considered the land of Kush. The name was originally derived from the Hebrews to refer to the nations on the eastern coast of the Red Sea. However, the Bible is clear in stating that the Cush people are actually Ethiopians.When Moses referred to the people of Cush, it was in reference of a kindred nation to the Egyptians.[citation needed] Because of the close political relations of Egypt and Ethiopia, both nations at one point in time were under the term Cush according to late Hebrew historians. Even though the original intentions of the word were in reference to both sides of the Red Sea, evidence has shown that parts of the eastern coast did belong to the Ethiopians.[19]

Ethiopia is Kush anyways! :lol:

ONLF is a terriorist to Ogaden People Your Goverment is a Colonizer.
Ok. :cheers:

Yes we dare you to come into our land again :) If I were you I'd stick to development. Fighting is not your strong suit.
That's why Badme is under Ethiopian control. :lol:

Bye.

Why do you all hate us so?
There is one Somali and one Ertrian, I wouldn't expect anything else from these two groups. Just ignore them and let them hate for ever.

There is one Somali and one Ertrian, I wouldn't expect anything else from these two groups. Just ignore them and let them hate for ever.

Now, now, let's not generalise. Xusein and Asmarom are quite level-headed, and so we shouldn't stereotype.

That's why Badme is under Ethiopian control. :lol:

Bye.

Most Ethiopians can't even point to Badme on a map lol. When the time is right we will get rid of you occupiers whether you are still the slave to American interests or not. I'm off, I'm going to take a dip in the ocean in my town of Asab :)

Now, now, let's not generalise. Xusein and Asmarom are quite level-headed, and so we shouldn't stereotype.
I am not saying that all of them are hateful or anti-Ethiopian, but I am sad to say that I don't expect anything more from those two groups when it comes to Ethiopia.

When I see guys like Xusein, I am positively surprised.

RAS DUMERIA IS ERITREA!!

Sorry my friend, the mame Ethiopia was used back to Axumite times.



Ethiopia is Kush anyways! :lol:

Firstly to avoid confusion lets refer to the Modern Ethiopia as Ethiopia and the Ancient one as Aethiopia

Aethiopia and Kush referred to the same place, that is Nubia in northern Sudan.
The term for Kush in the bible was Aethiopia. you cant claim that Kush is in present day Ethiopia because its historic borders were known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush

And you cant claim that Biblical references to Aethiopia in the bible referred to
Ethiopia because it speaks of documented battles involving the Nubians. In particular the bible also speaks of "taharqa king of Aethiopia", King Taharqa is burried in Nuri in Northern Sudan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taharqa
Oh and its not a mystery why Aethiopia and Egypt had close relations they shared a common border.

In any case Ethiopians are a semetic people not hametic, Cushites originate from the line of Ham.

Nubia is a land in Northern Sudan

Kush was a kingdom established in that land

Aethiopia was the term the bible used to refer to Kush

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kush
In the Bible

The name given to this civilization comes from the Old Testament where Cush (Hebrew: כוש) was one of the sons of Ham (Genesis 10:6) who settled in Northeast Africa. In the Bible and at different times in the ancient world, a large region covering northern Sudan, modern day southern Egypt was known as "Cush". The Hebrew Bible refers to "Cush" on a number of occasions, though various English translations translate this as "Nubian", "Ethiopia", "Sudan", and "Cushite" (Unseth 1999). Moses' wife, Tzipporah, is described as a Kushite in the book of Numbers 12:1. Some contend that this Cush was in southern Arabia. See Biblical Cush for a full discussion. All of this is complicated by the fact that the Septuagint translated "Cush" as "Aethiopia", leading to the misleading conclusion that "Cush" should be equated with the borders of present day "Ethiopia".

In any case Ethiopians are a semetic people not hametic, Cushites originate from the line of Ham.

Ethiopian is a nationality, not an ethnicity. If you're referring to the Abyssinian groups, they are semitic speaking Cushites with the majority of Tigrays being Agaw descent and Amharas Oromo. This is the equivalent to the Arabic speaking Nubians of Northern Sudan.

The "Ethiopia" mentioned in the Bible refers to Kush (Nubia if you must), not the modern state of Ethiopia.

The "Ethiopia" mentioned in the Bible refers to Kush (Nubia if you must), not the modern state of Ethiopia.

that's exactly my point^^

that's exactly my point^^

Don't waste your breath, Ethiopians have been brainwashed to believe that Ethiopia has existed for thousands of years LOOL. As long as the U.S. continues to pump money into Ethiopia to retain this myth the reassure that Ethiopians will continue to believe. They love their fairy tales, it's a way to ignore their true history. Heck even the Ethiopian "monarchy" which was only 300 years old never had stability as Tigray and Shewan chiefs fought over power in the small Abyssinia (before expansion).