Thought this thread was long overdue!!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020911.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020912.jpg


Furniture being added to Ann Street (Probably one of the most improved streets with this program of work!!) ...

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020901.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020903.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020909.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020913.jpg



And just for nostalgia coz it will be gone soon! :lol: ........

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj246/G2GAP/25%20-%2010%20-%2009/P1020914.jpg

I've been very impressed by Streets Ahead actually, though I would have liked more trees for Ann Street and Arthur Street.

Indeed would like to more trees in the city centre full stop.

though I would have liked more trees for Ann Street and Arthur Street.

100% agree! ... My only real criticism of the project.

Can't wait until it's all finished. My own suggestion (which of course won't happen) is that tram lines are laid up the length of Royal Avenue to signal some faith in the future and give people here some hope that someone in the decision making bodies here has a bit of imagination. It wouldn't add that much to the cost, and being recessed, wouldn't impede either pedestrians or cyclists. My other suggestion is of course to bring the Dublinbikes to a city centre location. Now is the time to do this, when the place is being dug up, though they managed it with ease in Dublin, so it can't be that difficult.

My only caveat about the whole scheme is the sheer amount of differing surfaces that have been used. ie Castle Street has grey slate-like paving (excellent). Some other streets have a pattern to the paviers, others have more uniformity.

My great wish is of course that the vile surfaces of places in the inner city like Great Victoria street around the Europa would receive the same treatment. These places are a total disgrace. What a shabby scene to greet those arriving at the Europa terminus.

Then of course there is the total anomaly of Cathedral Square, but I'm not allowed to talk about that - belfastuniguy has spoken and I must obey his word!

Can't wait until it's all finished. My own suggestion (which of course won't happen) is that tram lines are laid up the length of Royal Avenue to signal some faith in the future and give people here some hope that someone in the decision making bodies here has a bit of imagination. It wouldn't add that much to the cost, and being recessed, wouldn't impede either pedestrians or cyclists. My other suggestion is of course to bring the Dublinbikes to a city centre location. Now is the time to do this, when the place is being dug up, though they managed it with ease in Dublin, so it can't be that difficult.

My only caveat about the whole scheme is the sheer amount of differing surfaces that have been used. ie Castle Street has grey slate-like paving (excellent). Some other streets have a pattern to the paviers, others have more uniformity.

My great wish is of course that the vile surfaces of places in the inner city like Great Victoria street around the Europa would receive the same treatment. These places are a total disgrace. What a shabby scene to greet those arriving at the Europa terminus.

Then of course there is the total anomaly of Cathedral Square, but I'm not allowed to talk about that - belfastuniguy has spoken and I must obey his word!

I would much prefer a controlled tram or guided bus (i know most prefer trams lol but i'm just using examples) to travel along Donegall Place and / or Royal Avenue than buses - atleast then they cannot exceed certain speeds and they always follow the same route which people will get used to when walking and sharing the street with them. At the moment the place is to much of a speedway for many buses in a hurry to stay on time. Also, i know there is the argument that disabled people need easy access but i just feel that the cars parked along Donegall Place really detract from the appearance of the street.


I think the different designs and styles of paving work really well. If everything was identical it could create a sterilised feel about the city centre streets (i wish lol) ... though in seriousness we don't want the Cornmarket paving everywhere. It works in the pedestrian streets but on Castle street and Queen Street the slate paving looks great! It suits the area and the activities in the area ie shared street with cars and people ... whereas a more pedestrian focused shopping street klike Cornmarket or Arthur Street suits the paving used.

I notice that Castle Place from High Street to Castle Street has a different paving style to Donegall Place. Larger pavers which look really well. Also, large kerbings which could be a sign of what will be used in Royal Avenue when it is eventually addressed in a later phase.


The area of Great Victoria Street from about the BBC / Lincoln Building to the Spires Centre is a priority i agree! ... It's bad enough the inside of the Europa Bus Centre (these public facilities should be bright with lots of natural light and were possible no low roofs) ... but then you walk outside and street clutter, patched up pavements, parked cars and poorly defined pavement areas infront of the hotel all great our cities visitors! :ohno:

Nice photos G2GAP. Really impressed by the Streets Ahead, money well spent I think.

Looking at those photos the next thing that desperately needs sorted out is signage.

Nice photos G2GAP. Really impressed by the Streets Ahead, money well spent I think.

Looking at those photos the next thing that desperately needs sorted out is signage.

And shutters on shops!!

Can't wait until it's all finished. My own suggestion (which of course won't happen) is that tram lines are laid up the length of Royal Avenue to signal some faith in the future and give people here some hope that someone in the decision making bodies here has a bit of imagination. It wouldn't add that much to the cost, and being recessed, wouldn't impede either pedestrians or cyclists. My other suggestion is of course to bring the Dublinbikes to a city centre location. Now is the time to do this, when the place is being dug up, though they managed it with ease in Dublin, so it can't be that difficult.

My only caveat about the whole scheme is the sheer amount of differing surfaces that have been used. ie Castle Street has grey slate-like paving (excellent). Some other streets have a pattern to the paviers, others have more uniformity.

My great wish is of course that the vile surfaces of places in the inner city like Great Victoria street around the Europa would receive the same treatment. These places are a total disgrace. What a shabby scene to greet those arriving at the Europa terminus.

Then of course there is the total anomaly of Cathedral Square, but I'm not allowed to talk about that - belfastuniguy has spoken and I must obey his word!

Donegal Square, Linenhall Street, Bedford Street, Great Victoria Street et al will be dealt with in later phases. While I think we all would like to see the street improvements as soon as possible, realistically such improvements were never going to happen all at once given the cost and the disruption such works would cause without careful planning, hence the phased approach. Patience is the name of the game here.

Donegal Square, Linenhall Street, Bedford Street, Great Victoria Street et al will be dealt with in later phases. While I think we all would like to see the street improvements as soon as possible, realistically such improvements were never going to happen all at once given the cost and the disruption such works would cause without careful planning, hence the phased approach. Patience is the name of the game here.


Exactly, those are all to come.

This weeks newsletter update: Week commencing 26 Oct 09:

Ann Street
● Installation of street furniture will continue this week.

Castle Lane
● Paving is now complete as far as Ecco shoes. Ground works are ongoing and progressing well towards Donegall Place, with paving following closely behind.
● The section from Callender Street to Donegall Place remains closed with pedestrian access being maintained at all times.

Donegall Place Area
● Concreting outside Karen Millen is ongoing and progressing well.
● Paving is ongoing outside the Welcome Centre.
● Paving has commenced outside Queen’s Arcade and is progressing well towards Fountain Lane.
● Paving is ongoing outside the new KFC premises.
● Concreting is ongoing working from Zara to the corner of Donegall Place/Castle Street and is progressing well.

Castle Place Junction

● Concreting has commenced in the area from The Jean Scene to McDonalds.
● Paving has progressed as far as Mothercare and kerb installation has commenced at East, working towards The Jean Scene.
● Groundworks continue at the corner of Primark to facilitate the new kerbing.
● Installation of the kerbing at the Castle Street side will commence this week.

Agree with the point that there should have been more trees. Pity that there aren't even any in Arthur Street, as I can remember that there used to be a few previously.

One disappointment is that there appear to be no sign of the streets ahead project using manhole covers that allow the paving material to be incorporated into them. Noticed that Fountain street and Ann street have load of black manhole covers, scattered about the place. Kinda ruins what is a high quality finish.

Agree with the point that there should have been more trees. Pity that there aren't even any in Arthur Street, as I can remember that there used to be a few previously.

One disappointment is that there appear to be no sign of the streets ahead project using manhole covers that allow the paving material to be incorporated into them. Noticed that Fountain street and Ann street have load of black manhole covers, scattered about the place. Kinda ruins what is a high quality finish.

Yes definitely! Some areas are worse than others and have a huge amount of manhole covers concentrated in one area which detracts from the overall appearance. Some of the covers do have paving in them though so it is odd that not all were done like this. I'm not sure on the technicalities so perhaps someone will say that it is not possible with some....

Few more shots highlighting the differing tiles and patterns:

Donegall Place:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/4061371482_c16167a9f5.jpg

Castle Place:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/4060629135_c68d8cc8e0.jpg

Few more shots highlighting the differing tiles and patterns:

Donegall Place:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/4061371482_c16167a9f5.jpg



^^
I thought the path at Donegall Place at both sides was to be made wider.
It does not look any wider.

^^
I thought the path at Donegall Place at both sides was to be made wider.
It does not look any wider.

The other side will be much wider .... This side will not increase until the traffic is fully removed.

The other side will be much wider .... This side will not increase until the traffic is fully removed.

I take it that once the side they are working on is complete, they'll realign the actual road, and then commence work on the much wider pavement on the other side of the street?

Does anyone know the exact date they'll cease work on streets ahead to allow for the christmas period? As i reckon they could carry on working until the start of December, by which time hopefully the majority of the current work on Donegall Place will be complete.

Also, the other, wider pavement on Donegall Place- it is meant to have trees in it isn't it? As people have mentioned, it would be nice to have some more trees about. Since Donegall Place is an important street in the city centre i'm hoping they put in reasonably sized trees. Obviously i'm not expecting massive tree lined boulevards like you see in Paris, but something better than what you see quite often around Belfast- trees that resemble upturned branches stuck in some soil.

Anyway, not that i weant to criticise the streets ahead scheme- it really has been an unqualified success so far. The improvements so far are ridiculously good- up there with any Europoean city i have visited.

Donegal Place already has trees. I don't think they will be adding more.

They exist on the M&S side of Donegal Place, though I would like to see them also on the other side.

I'm not exactly sure what will happen as I can see the tree's being removed during work and new ones added. Otherwise they would be damaged.

I take it that once the side they are working on is complete, they'll realign the actual road, and then commence work on the much wider pavement on the other side of the street?

Does anyone know the exact date they'll cease work on streets ahead to allow for the christmas period? As i reckon they could carry on working until the start of December, by which time hopefully the majority of the current work on Donegall Place will be complete.

Also, the other, wider pavement on Donegall Place- it is meant to have trees in it isn't it? As people have mentioned, it would be nice to have some more trees about. Since Donegall Place is an important street in the city centre i'm hoping they put in reasonably sized trees. Obviously i'm not expecting massive tree lined boulevards like you see in Paris, but something better than what you see quite often around Belfast- trees that resemble upturned branches stuck in some soil.

Anyway, not that i weant to criticise the streets ahead scheme- it really has been an unqualified success so far. The improvements so far are ridiculously good- up there with any Europoean city i have visited.


Work is due to be put on hold from the 23rd November to the 4th January.

Yes the current side which work is taking place on will not have trees but the other side will. Hopefully as you say, of a decent size, such as those at Cornmarket and not the usual twigs!!

http://i33.tinypic.com/aep79w.jpg

^^^ It would be amazing if they did something like that around the cathedral, or a fully pedestrianised Donnegal Sq. Streets ahead is great so far. My only criticism (apart from a wanting a few more trees) are the bins. I think they should be more modern and silvery looking.

the video here - http://www.farrans.com/swf/video.php
shows their plans including the trees and their ultimate plans for complete pedestrianisation

Where is that Conor?

Where is that Conor?

Somewhere in Sheffield.

Cheers.

The new paving looks great. But look too closely and you soon notice all the dull black / grey patches of chewing gum everywhere! Something needs to be done. Seriously.

The new paving looks great. But look too closely and you soon notice all the dull black / grey patches of chewing gum everywhere! Something needs to be done. Seriously.

Indeed. I propose compulsory dna analysis of every bit, with stupidly big fines for individuals caught to offset the cost of such a scheme...:lol:

In seriousness though, it doesn't matter how many bins and chewing gum disposal boards that are put up- they wouldn't get used. So many people here are just lazy. The method of effective removal sounds expensive too:

http://www.gumclear.co.uk/chewing-gum-removal.html

I'd rather they just ban chewing gum.

BANK SQUARE REGENERATION PROJECT

Area of Work:
http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-extent-of-works.jpg

Existing Conditions:
http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-photo-analysis.jpg

Proposals:
http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-cm-bank-sq-st.jpg

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-cm-berry-st.jpg

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-street-furniture.jpg

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/bsrp-kiosk.jpg

That is fantastic! I would love to see the pedestrian square continue to in front of Primark. Hope streets ahead do that soon.

That is fantastic, very impressed. I like the 'green wall' to hide that hideous brick service yard as well.

They've got a photo of market stalls. One thing I'd like to see would be a permanent market in Belfast, Cork has a really good inside one where people can go everyday to get lunch. St Georges is much bigger than it but sure it's only open twice a week and it's a bit out the way. It'd be nice to have a smaller one in a better location mon-thurs

How is St. Georges 'out of the way'?

It's literally 5 minutes walk from City Hall and there's even a bus if you're too lazy to walk.

It might not be much of a walk but it's clearly not in a shopping district. You could say the same about Central station not being too far away from the city hall, but people still prefer gt vic st station.

Looks like they are digging up fountain street less than a year after it's been paved. Also there's fancy orange paving outside the strand cinema and the bottom of the belmont road. I dont think its streets ahead doing it but it seems reasonably expensive, albeit a random place to have it seeming as it peters out very quickly. And as its the suburbs it'll be lucky to get cleaned once a month, it's really fucking messy and doesnt hide dirt as much as traditional paving

More interestingly they are putting new quality pavements down at Short Strand, right on the interface on the Albert Bridge Road. Looks quite good but will be properly be ruined.

Probably doesnt see much of a footfall either. Maybe these more obscure projects are part of the gateway to the city scheme where they tart up the main roads into town.

The worst stretch of public footpath I have ever seen is on the Ormeau Road. It's totally shameful - black lumpy shite of course. When will this ever be replaced?

The worst stretch of public footpath I have ever seen is on the Ormeau Road. It's totally shameful - black lumpy shite of course. When will this ever be replaced?

Don't the pavements alongside most roads into Belfast (and many other cities in the UK) have the black tarmac- e.g. Lisburn Road, Cregagh Road, Castlereagh Road, Malone Road... the list goes on. I'm more concerned that the city centre gets sorted out, in particular, the patchwork quilt of mess that is Royal Avenue. Thankfully, streets ahead will, in time, revamp the entire city centre, from St Annes to right the way along Gt Victoria Street. So far, the work has been splendid. It's just a pity that some lazy shites still deem it acceptable to drop their chewing gum on it.

those REGENERATION PROJECTS look great! hope to see them soon in Belfast.. and cheers for the news.. :) :cheers:

Don't the pavements alongside most roads into Belfast (and many other cities in the UK) have the black tarmac- e.g. Lisburn Road, Cregagh Road, Castlereagh Road, Malone Road... the list goes on. I'm more concerned that the city centre gets sorted out, in particular, the patchwork quilt of mess that is Royal Avenue. Thankfully, streets ahead will, in time, revamp the entire city centre, from St Annes to right the way along Gt Victoria Street. So far, the work has been splendid. It's just a pity that some lazy shites still deem it acceptable to drop their chewing gum on it.

You're correct EVERY CITY in the UK and wider afield has tarmac on greater urban and suburban pavements. To have them all paved with stone is so beyond ridiculous it's not even worth explaining.


As for the chewing gum, as I said before....ban it.

Ban chewing gum? You must have some death breath

You're correct EVERY CITY in the UK and wider afield has tarmac on greater urban and suburban pavements. To have them all paved with stone is so beyond ridiculous it's not even worth explaining.

Every city in the UK is certainly NOT covered with black lumpy tar. In fact every city in the UK, including Belfast once had perfectly good paving slabs. These still prevail in London, and of course Dublin.

When I lived in the Holyland area of Belfast my street was paved, with granite kerbs. Some of the paving was not in good order, but after NI Electric dug up both sides of the street, they replaced the lot with perfect paving. Within six months the DOE had dug ALL of it up, and down went the black shite. You couldn't make it up. This helped brutalise what was once a lovely area of Victorian townscape character. The next stage in the process was the NIHE grant aiding those who wanted to concrete over their small front gardens! (I still have the letter offering me the £800 grant for those who don't believe that particular idiocy)

Thankfully Dublin went down the opposite route, and the slow learners here are finally undoing the total mess they made of Belfast city centre, which at one stage also had perfect paving.

^^

Holyland is not greater urban or suburban. Every city I have visited in the UK and around the world has tarmac or non-paved pavements in the greater urban area and suburbs. This is not something unique to Belfast. If you believe that then you're lying about your supposed world travel or purposely being a troll.

The greater urban area of Dublin has some utterly shit roads and pavements and they most certainly have tarmac as does London.....I know.....I've walked on it.

^^

Every city I have visited in the UK and around the world has tarmac or non-paved pavements in the greater urban area and suburbs. This is not something unique to Belfast. If you believe that then you're lying about your supposed world travel or purposely being a troll.



I live in Madrid and I've never seen a tarmaced street here or, now that I think about it, anywhere else I been in spain. I'm not just referring to the immediate city centre here but to absolutely every street in the city. Here they are done with a variety of stone types

^^

Warmer countries tend to use Asphalt concrete and stone given the effect heat has on traditional asphalt. It's also cheaper to use and make, hence it's prevalence in America. I didn't state it was common, I said it exists.

Here's a couple you obviously missed on those travels.

Barcelona - guess what that black stuff is....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2368/2158609490_3cc1b0e953_o.jpg

Santa Cruz
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4147241210_59ffeb2cec_b.jpg

^^ also nice example of what heat does.


Just a couple of examples.....you see my point though.

^^ also nice example of what heat does.



Attracts fat British tourists in floral shirts???

Anyway, I'm not a street surfaces expert nor do I aspire to be, however, the Bank Sq proposals look very interesting and I look forward to seeing the plans implemented (hopefully not in the too distant future)

That area badly needs a focal point especially as a number of new hotels have been located in the vicinity.

I haven't been around Castle street / King street on any of my recent travels so I would be interested to know - from anybody who can offer an opinion - if the new hotels etc have made a diference to the feel of the area or, if not, what you feel is missing. Castle street to me was always very tatty, dark and dismal.

^^

He's not wearing socks with those shorts........so unlikely to be British ;)

I haven't been around Castle street / King street on any of my recent travels so I would be interested to know - from anybody who can offer an opinion - if the new hotels etc have made a diference to the feel of the area or, if not, what you feel is missing. Castle street to me was always very tatty, dark and dismal.

To be honest, there's only really one hotel in the area there- the new Ibis, and it's certainly added a bit of bulk at that end of the street. Plus the Vetro will much improve things too. The new pavements are certainly a massive improvement.

I've always liked the bustling feel of the street- this probably comes about because it's quite narrow. However, that narrowness is probably also a problem- given the height of the buildings towards the Donegall Place end, it gets very little sunlight. Plus the appearance of the street isn't helped by this bollox of a building.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2307/1602123230_8f8bf3dae1_b.jpg

Note to the developer who wants to destroy the athletic stores- why not turn your attentions to this piece of guff instead.

^^

Warmer countries tend to use Asphalt concrete and stone given the effect heat has on traditional asphalt. It's also cheaper to use and make, hence it's prevalence in America. I didn't state it was common, I said it exists.

Here's a couple you obviously missed on those travels.

Barcelona - guess what that black stuff is....
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2368/2158609490_3cc1b0e953_o.jpg

Santa Cruz
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4147241210_59ffeb2cec_b.jpg

^^ also nice example of what heat does.


Just a couple of examples.....you see my point though.


Jez your clutching at straws there boy - what did you do - google "tarmac in Spain"? Now obviously I have never walked every street of this country - I xdont think theres a man alive who has. I didn't say for a moment that tarmac could never be used - the point was simply that stone paving is the choice material. I take the point on board regarding the heat but at the same time the road are tarmaced (although I dont think its the same type used back home) - so with it being the cheaper option surely they should be using it for pavements.......

Jez your clutching at straws there boy - what did you do - google "tarmac in Spain"? Now obviously I have never walked every street of this country - I xdont think theres a man alive who has. I didn't say for a moment that tarmac could never be used - the point was simply that stone paving is the choice material. I take the point on board regarding the heat but at the same time the road are tarmaced (although I dont think its the same type used back home) - so with it being the cheaper option surely they should be using it for pavements.......

Ha! If you ever find yourself Googling 'tarmac in Spain' you know it's time to start asking some serious questions :o)

No actually....been to both places. I remember seeing it and got the images.

They do use a sightly different composition on roads than here in the UK, designed to withstand heat better. They don't really have a choice, tarmac is much safer and cheaper than paving traffic routes in stone or concrete.

The point is....you stated you had NEVER seen a tarmaced pavement/pedestrian surface anywhere in Spain you had visited. You made that statement to 'counter' my perfectly accurate post that tarmac pavements do exist in pretty much all countries around the world.

Next time be somewhat more precise, something along the lines of your recent post.

Next time be somewhat more precise.

This coming from the one who said "Every city I have visited in the UK and around the world has tarmac or non-paved pavements in the greater urban area and suburbs" which suggests to me, and I would imagine everybody else that read the comment, that the policy in cities around the world is to TARMAC and NOT PAVE pavements. To this I used the example of the city/country I live in.

Now you come tellin me to be more precise - catch yerself on son. Here's what you should have said to be more precise:
"Every city I have visited in the UK and around the world has AT LEAST ONE TARMACED OR NON-PAVED PAVEMENT in the greater urban area and suburbs".

I mean seriously, instead of sitting up all night trying to get the better of people on internet forums (whilst using symantics as your trump card), I suggest you go to bed, get a good nights sleep and then maybe you'll find yerself less stressed out in the morning and not such an angry little boy.

Santa Cruz
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4147241210_59ffeb2cec_b.jpg

Just a couple of examples.....you see my point though.

TBH - I think that the above is a temporary surface, note the hi-viz vests in the distance. Most pavements in Tenerife are paved in a cream ceramic tile. In fact if you look closely, there are some still embedded in the bitmac. I'd say that the bitmac is probably a base course, over which the new materials will be laid.

I was far from being angry LOL
You seem to interpret my posting as such, anyone that gets angry while sitting in front of a screen needs to have a word with themselves. As you also have no idea of what my tone was or my body language it's rather difficult to make such a statement. Instead you have merely thrown that in for patronising effect.

There was also nothing wrong with my statement, I did not state every pavement was tarmaced, I said they existed in every city I had visited, which is perfectly accurate. Semantics or not, you were wrong. Doesn't seem you're able to admit that.

Semantics or not, you were wrong.

Oh no I wasn't...... (Oh yes you were....) Oh no I wasn't......

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh no I wasn't...... (Oh yes you were....) Oh no I wasn't......

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YM - out of of interest how long have you been based in Madrid?

Oh no I wasn't...... (Oh yes you were....) Oh no I wasn't......

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I couldn't agree more.... he should call himself Belfastunitar - he's so in love with it, and clearly anxious to portray himself as a tar expert, that he probably smears himself with it every night.

So - ok belfastuniguy - you win. You know more about pavement/tar than anyone else here. You're the king of tar! :nuts:

^^

Of course I win FFS

If you weren't so retarded then maybe you wouldn't have been so hyperbole in your obsession with the 'lumpy black shite', with your sweeping denials of its existence in any other city apart from Belfast.

That generally is all we ever hear about with you, that and trams. Every opportunity you get, up pops the issue of tarmac.

Hi everyone.

This is my grand introduction to the Belfast boards.

I am a planner (working for a consultancy in London) with an MSc in Urban Design so I like to think I can add a little insight to the discussion on this thread.

I grew up and studied in Belfast right through to post-grad so I know and love Belfast.

I have always been unsettled by the state of streets both in the urban core and suburban locations. More than anything else (as you are all aware) nothing makes a town look more worn-out and past it's sell-by date than a poor public realm.

I am really pleased with how Streets Ahead is coming along. The work so far looks great, however (and there is always a ‘but’) I am more interested in what happens after Streets Ahead is completed (the next step) and I would like to offer a critique of what is happening now.

I will start with the critique. I have noticed DRD seem to be approaching end game (if funding holds up) in terms of completing their transport planners wet dream of a transport network, this coupled with Streets Ahead should reduce congestion and improve pedestrian flows no end in BCC which is great. However as per normal the cyclist has been ignored.

If you look at Copenhagen, Stockholm (both cold cities) or Amsterdam, Utrecht, Strasbourg etc etc etc normal practice these days is to build-in cycle provision as the pedestrian and transit infrastructure is improved. This is not happening in Belfast which means inevitably given current trends (Peak Oil) the whole lot will have to be dug up again in 10-20 years time to cater for cyclists (if we can afford to in an economic death spiral). This is short sighted, foolish and says allot about the stale thinking within the DRD.

If we look to the future and consider the three key user groups which should be planned and designed for from the inception of any and every project:

1. Road users / Public Transit

2. Pedestrians.

3. Cyclists.

I think it would be awesome (and please correct me if I am wrong) if a Belfast wide "spoke" scheme was designed and implemented.

The project in my mind’s eye would work as follows.

With the Strategic Transport System sorted and Belfast Core regenerated it is time to start thinking about the inner and outer suburbs by bringing regeneration to the people and improving everyone’s daily experience.

This could be achieved by adopting what I call the Spoke Approach.

By implementing a straight forward demand assessment we identify the top 6 (arbitrary number) pedestrian and cycle corridors into BCC. My best guess is that the Ormeau, Lisburn, Falls, Shankill, Newtownards and Cregagh Roads would come out top.

We consider these roads the spokes of our wheel connecting the hub (BCC) with the suburbs (the rubber tire).

We then design an improvement scheme for each road from top to bottom considering the public realm, pedestrian access and segregated provision for cyclists as priorities from inception.

By doing so we bring regeneration to the greatest possible number of people, conclusively deal with the gateway issue and enable a modal shift for those along these routes from car to bike which will reduce congestion, further improving the pedestrian environment. In effect we create a virtuous cycle along these corridors.

Future Suburban Area Action Plans (as adopted in England) could over time link suburban population clusters to the spoke network.

What do you all think?

How many students / professionals do we have on this thread? Who would be interested in contributing to an open source (within an agreed framework) scheme design for a Belfast 'spoke' network?

I am interested in your views.

YM - out of of interest how long have you been based in Madrid?

6-7 years, stayed out here yerself?

Hi everyone.

This is my grand introduction to the Belfast boards.

I am a planner (working for a consultancy in London) with an MSc in Urban Design so I like to think I can add a little insight to the discussion on this thread.

I grew up and studied in Belfast right through to post-grad so I know and love Belfast.

I have always been unsettled by the state of streets both in the urban core and suburban locations. More than anything else (as you are all aware) nothing makes a town look more worn-out and past it's sell-by date than a poor public realm.

I am really pleased with how Streets Ahead is coming along. The work so far looks great, however (and there is always a ‘but’) I am more interested in what happens after Streets Ahead is completed (the next step) and I would like to offer a critique of what is happening now.

I will start with the critique. I have noticed DRD seem to be approaching end game (if funding holds up) in terms of completing their transport planners wet dream of a transport network, this coupled with Streets Ahead should reduce congestion and improve pedestrian flows no end in BCC which is great. However as per normal the cyclist has been ignored.

If you look at Copenhagen, Stockholm (both cold cities) or Amsterdam, Utrecht, Strasbourg etc etc etc normal practice these days is to build-in cycle provision as the pedestrian and transit infrastructure is improved. This is not happening in Belfast which means inevitably given current trends (Peak Oil) the whole lot will have to be dug up again in 10-20 years time to cater for cyclists (if we can afford to in an economic death spiral). This is short sighted, foolish and says allot about the stale thinking within the DRD.

If we look to the future and consider the three key user groups which should be planned and designed for from the inception of any and every project:

1. Road users / Public Transit

2. Pedestrians.

3. Cyclists.

I think it would be awesome (and please correct me if I am wrong) if a Belfast wide "spoke" scheme was designed and implemented.

The project in my mind’s eye would work as follows.

With the Strategic Transport System sorted and Belfast Core regenerated it is time to start thinking about the inner and outer suburbs by bringing regeneration to the people and improving everyone’s daily experience.

This could be achieved by adopting what I call the Spoke Approach.

By implementing a straight forward demand assessment we identify the top 6 (arbitrary number) pedestrian and cycle corridors into BCC. My best guess is that the Ormeau, Lisburn, Falls, Shankill, Newtownards and Cregagh Roads would come out top.

We consider these roads the spokes of our wheel connecting the hub (BCC) with the suburbs (the rubber tire).

We then design an improvement scheme for each road from top to bottom considering the public realm, pedestrian access and segregated provision for cyclists as priorities from inception.

By doing so we bring regeneration to the greatest possible number of people, conclusively deal with the gateway issue and enable a modal shift for those along these routes from car to bike which will reduce congestion, further improving the pedestrian environment. In effect we create a virtuous cycle along these corridors.

Future Suburban Area Action Plans (as adopted in England) could over time link suburban population clusters to the spoke network.

What do you all think?

How many students / professionals do we have on this thread? Who would be interested in contributing to an open source (within an agreed framework) scheme design for a Belfast 'spoke' network?

I am interested in your views.

Thank god, a planner with a bit of sense who is aware of peak oil. There is hope for the world yet!

Are you aware of the current Friends of the Earth Belfast Cycle City campaign?

http://www.belfastcyclecity.org.uk/

Thank god, a planner with a bit of sense who is aware of peak oil. There is hope for the world yet!

Are you aware of the current Friends of the Earth Belfast Cycle City campaign?

http://www.belfastcyclecity.org.uk/


TheVanishin,

I thought I would come out of the closet :)

In my defence I am a strategic planner so I spend my working day producing evidence base studies / strategies as well as working on master-planning projects across the Mid-East, North Africa and even England (although not so much England these days).

I took a look at the FoE link you posted. I have to say I am less than impressed. Friends of the Earth are very good at identifying a problem, not so good when it comes to proposing workable solutions or bringing the public along for the ride.

FoE need to communicate their vision by setting out clear objectives and illustrating how these could look. Random statistical targets do not constitute a goal when you are trying to get public opinion on side. A strong vision including detailed designs of how busy streets would look along with routes and an optimistic assessment of how a cycle city will improve everyone’s quality of life will attract media attention (by that I mean early evening news) and they would need to bring politicians along for the journey to have any real impact.

Detailed designs would need to be coordinated with a positive political campaign and good legal advice for prospective new legislation in the Assembly which would be required to force the DRD to lift the finger.

This need not cost the Earth. A strong Open Source initiative could bring interested people together to create a strategy in their spare time / as part of uni studies and I don’t think FoE are the right group to do it. I am not convinced they have the required mainstream credibility.

I have followed the Skyscrapercity Belfast threads for a while and again I see lots of comment about what people would like to see but no activism. As a result many limit themselves to deriding or praising speculative development or whatever DRD led initiative is in the works and to be honest this navel gazing is growing a little stale.

If people want to illicit real change and have a real World impact they need to do something constructive.

Is there any support for an Open Source movement?

For such an initiative to work we would initially require:

- A good web developer prepared to put a site together.

- Individuals with graphic skills or prepared to learn as they go along to draw-up designs.

- Strategic Planners who know how to produce Evidence Base Studies or prepared to learn how to.

- Willing volunteers who can carry out site surveys.

- A core group who can coordinate / project manage and prepare the framework and methodology within which everyone else would work.

- Free time.

-Commitment to change.

P.s. I have read widely on Peak Oil, it is not a question of if….but when.

A few photos of the current work:

Donegall Place:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4774896267_626d79ce3f_b.jpg

Castle Junction:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4774899753_2e0c783089_b.jpg

Outside Tesco/Primark:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4775538576_cabdf9802b_b.jpg

A few photos of the current work:

Donegall Place:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4123/4774896267_626d79ce3f_b.jpg

Castle Junction:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4774899753_2e0c783089_b.jpg

Outside Tesco/Primark:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4775538576_cabdf9802b_b.jpg

Every single one of these pics appears to have a different pattern of paving – what's all that about? Castle Street and Cornmarket/Castle Lane/Ann Street are different again! While I don't want to prejudge, and the end results are clearly an improvement over what was there before, I hope this doesn't end up looking like a jumbled mis-match of patterns. I still think the paving in Castle Street/Queen Street looks superb, none of this trendy stripey stuff with different sized slabs. Why couldn't they have just done the whole lot like Castle Street, with a bit of judicious colour/pattern in designated 'feature' areas (if at all, actually)..

Whats the story with those tarmacked boxes (second picture)? Is there some permanent street furniture to go in there?

Whats the story with those tarmacked boxes (second picture)? Is there some permanent street furniture to go in there?

In Cornmarket there's benches beside the bins, maybe that's why?

Whats the story with those tarmacked boxes (second picture)? Is there some permanent street furniture to go in there?

Probably- with the other streets so far, there's always been random tarmaced boxes left initially. They end up being filled in with various things- lighting, drains, manholes and indeed furniture.

Every single one of these pics appears to have a different pattern of paving – what's all that about? Castle Street and Cornmarket/Castle Lane/Ann Street are different again! While I don't want to prejudge, and the end results are clearly an improvement over what was there before, I hope this doesn't end up looking like a jumbled mis-match of patterns. I still think the paving in Castle Street/Queen Street looks superb, none of this trendy stripey stuff with different sized slabs. Why couldn't they have just done the whole lot like Castle Street, with a bit of judicious colour/pattern in designated 'feature' areas (if at all, actually)..


I agree.... looks like what used to be called "Crazy Paving" - ie better than that loathsome black shite so much loved by belfastuniguy, but ultimately a bit of badly designed, patterned mess. I always think that pavement should be sort of invisible, and when it's simple, and uniform, that's how it is.

I would have surfaced it with the same type of uniformity that appears in Dublin's astounding new airport terminal.... take a glance at what it looks like to get things soooo right. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=706304&page=14

Ahhh... I see how you managed to get your little bit about how orgasmic something belonging to Dublin is... even though we're talking about the pavements of Belfast City Centre..... very cleever....

Now, back to what we were talking about....

Oh do STFU snailface



OMGZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1761/dubtarmac.jpg


Tarmac in Dublin!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS CHRIST the world just ended and the sky LITERALLY has fallen

OMGZ!!!!!!!! Gorgeous poured concrete pavements in *SHOCK* Dublin

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2412/dubpavement1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2340/2466043912_d226814bac_z.jpg


Frankly I find the concrete shit that Dublin uses much more hideous than tarmac.

Now...move on can we? Good




The plan was always to have different styles of paving in different area, some areas are more suited to smaller stone sets and I like the variety of style, makes it less monotonous.

How about we keep these threads about Belfast, there is an Irish Republic forum, stick the Dublin stuff in there...mmmmkay??



Good

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1761/dubtarmac.jpg


:lol: Greatest. Picture. Ever.

Regarding the pavements in the city centre- as mentioned, it's not like each individual street has a different type. Arthur Street/Cornmarket/Castle Lane/Ann Street all have the same style. Donegall Place has a different style- smaller grey stones, with occasional black scetions, while the area around Castle Junction is all light brown. Hardly crazy paving. Once all the bollards are down and work is complete it will look really well. Another factor is that the work also involves relaying the roads- so we'll have nice shiny black tarmac as opposed to the red guff currently there. Further enhancing the finished look.

Stoppit belfastuniguy, that's obviously not Dublin...

Sure going by what SnailTrain says, I cannot see any gold paving slabs there...

Nice try :)

Once all the bollards are down and work is complete it will look really well. Another factor is that the work also involves relaying the roads- so we'll have nice shiny black tarmac as opposed to the red guff currently there. Further enhancing the finished look.

Nah, I don't know why we bother anyway, sure it still won't be as nice as Dublins... :(

:lol: Greatest. Picture. Ever.



+1

No one loving the poured concrete? I thought it was very fitting for a WORLD CLASS AMAZING SUPER DUPER city like Dublin.


No one agree? :no:

No one loving the poured concrete? I thought it was very fitting for a WORLD CLASS AMAZING SUPER DUPER city like Dublin.


No one agree? :no:

The terrific gold must be just under the marvellous surface

^^

Obviously.....

Maybe one day they can emulate our glorious capital city of London and finally get those gold bars laid.

http://images.travelpod.com/users/everardt/europe_2007.1189932060.streets-paved-with-gold.jpg

^^

Obviously.....

Maybe one day they can emulate our glorious capital city of London and finally get those gold bars laid.

http://images.travelpod.com/users/everardt/europe_2007.1189932060.streets-paved-with-gold.jpg

Nah, if London's paved with gold, the daedal Dubliners will obviously use either rhodium or, if the market's right, Rhenium :lol:

No one loving the poured concrete? I thought it was very fitting for a WORLD CLASS AMAZING SUPER DUPER city like Dublin.


No one agree? :no:

The concrete is super stuff. I especially like the way it maintains a smooth, even surface. Also it absolutely does not erode, become cracked or crumble. Ever. The most important point, however, is the fact that it is not "black" or "lumpy" or, indeed, "shite"- a common flaw found in the pavements in substandard cities.

The concrete is super stuff. I especially like the way it maintains a smooth, even surface. Also it absolutely does not erode, become cracked or crumble. Ever. The most important point, however, is the fact that it is not "black" or "lumpy" or, indeed, "shite"- a common flaw found in the pavements in substandard cities.

Yeah, you can hardly even see the joins..... :lol:

Maybe snail works for a concrete pouring pavement type company and he is failing trying to persuade us that poured unsightly concrete is what Belfast should embrace. Seeing as the Global Mega City to the south of Belfast has taken it to its heart.

Maybe snail works for a concrete pouring pavement type company

Which is fitted in around working as a PR officer for Calatrava "bridge design and installation" department. Remember- if you don't have a calatrava bridge, you're a bit shit!

:lol:

As welcome as the Streets Ahead improvements are to the public realm in Belfast are, I only wish there was greater provision on tree planting within the scheme. The mature trees in Corn Market are great, but only wish they continued with the trees into Arthur Street. It is such a wide street, some living greenery would stop it from looking so lifeless and barren. Also a few trees planted in Ann St would have been welcome too.

I really think the lack of trees is a lost opportunity.

^^

I agree and have always said such a thing. Trees on Arthur street in particular is such a wasted opportunity to make that into a fantastic open café/bar space.

^^

Yip, quite agree.

I must say though, that although the planting of loads of trees about Belfast is usually seen as being "good", I just wish there was a bit more planning behind it.
I've noticed trees which were planted along the Ballysillan Rd and down the Oldpark Rd which seem to have been cut down about 5 feet up the trunk. And it isn't vandalism either, the trees have been marked out which were staying and which weren't.

Seems silly to spend money planting the trees only to clear them again within a year :(

I love how Snail slags Belfasts pavements something shocking but Dublins are alot worse.

Actually some of Dublins pavements are third world in comparion to Northern Irelands.

Looks like they are putting up the masts along Donegall Place. Think they represent different ships that were built in Belfast.

you can see them on the video on this page. its at 1min 20secs into it

http://www.farrans.com/projects/category/8/project/13/

Indeed, saw them earlier. They look absolutely fantastic, very dramatic. The copper looks great and over time it'll be nice to see them change to match the copper domes around the area.

How far down Donegall Place are they going with Streets Aheads? I took a picture on my phone this time last year of the area near primark and they were working on that - they haven't went much further?

Can't wait till it's all completed - and please, o please put lots and lots of trees!!

^^

They are doing the entire length of Donegall Place. The 'masts' we mentioned just above are in front of Marks and Spencer. That side just needs the lights, masts, street furniture and trees added. Then eventually the entire route will be closed to traffic.

Walking down Donegal Place this evening, the paving is absolutely brilliant. Saw the masts too- they only have two in at the minute, but they look fabulous. The paving looks mostly complete- though I imagine there will be pressure to get the bollards out of the way in time for the Christmas shopping- hence why completion time has slipped to next March. The paving in Castle Place is almost completely finished- and some streetlights are in too- it's all looking fantastic. I cannot wait until it is all finished- the quality is up there with any European city I have visited. So impressed.

Hopefully finished before the Christmas rush then if that's all that's left.

Well, all the actual paving is pretty much done so they'll be able to open the streets no bother for Christmas- it's the finishing touches like street furniture, bins, trees and new lamp-posts that will probably have to wait until the new year. Hence why there are still small sections of tarmac within the new paving.

Does anybody know what the next phase of Streets Ahead will entail? Seeing as they have begun Royal Avenue, it makes sense that it might be completed next- though the Royal Exchange development might affect their plans. Either it or High Street possibly?

Well, all the actual paving is pretty much done so they'll be able to open the streets no bother for Christmas- it's the finishing touches like street furniture, bins, trees and new lamp-posts that will probably have to wait until the new year. Hence why there are still small sections of tarmac within the new paving.

Does anybody know what the next phase of Streets Ahead will entail? Seeing as they have begun Royal Avenue, it makes sense that it might be completed next- though the Royal Exchange development might affect their plans. Either it or High Street possibly?

It's looking great! I'm surprised with how much got done this summer! Only really the finishing touches like you say to be done.

I asked that question of them a few months back - ie what next - they didnt want to give away a location but said that funding was being actively sought for future locations. My guess would be Donegall Square but I would say it won't be starting immediately following the completion in March.

Also I think it would be a huge missed opportunity not to tie the street improvements into the Royal Exchange planning requirements and have the developer foot most if not all the bill for surrounding streets much like Victoria Square did with Victoria Street and Chichester Street.

The masts look fabulous! I'm wondering how many masts there will be? Looks very impressive!!

The masts look fabulous! I'm wondering how many masts there will be? Looks very impressive!!

8 - All on the east side of the street.

It's finishing temporarily for Christmas.

It's finishing temporarily for Christmas.

They have taken away all the red barriers, and I must say the area looks fabulous! Looking forward to seeing the rest of the masts up after xmas.

I dandered around Donegall Place tonight, I'm well impressed... they've widenrd the footpaths on the eastern side and on Castle Junction... very nice.

I dandered around Donegall Place tonight, I'm well impressed... they've widenrd the footpaths on the eastern side and on Castle Junction... very nice.

i didn't notice any tram lines though. So i was immensely disappointed. On a serious note, the redevelopment of the streets is fantastic, and seeing Donegal Place without the bollards tonight- well, frankly, it looked magnificent. Coupled with the fact the continental market had just opened- i cannot recall a time when Belfast has looked so well and been so full of people- it was tremendous.

Yeah, and if they can keep the chancers driving cars down Donegall Place away with the same gusto as during the troubles, then it'll be even better, if that's possible :)

Couple of photos of Donegall Place

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5047/5199932048_b0577e56dd_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5046/5199344587_f0694ca327_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5122/5199341095_29d13c9377_b.jpg

Fantastic pics! Can't wait for the trees now.

The installation of two more masts have went ahead, bringing the total now up to 4...looks quite impressive!

will they be on both sides of the street? I think it would look better symmetrical.

No, they will all be down one side of the street. Don't ask me why, prob because of the width of the paving?

No, they will all be down one side of the street. Don't ask me why, prob because of the width of the paving?

Probably is down to the fact that the pavement on the side they are on side is wider. Could also be because of the angle Royal Avenue sits at, it is easier to see the masts when walking along Royal Avenue too. Though i like to think it is because the buildings on the 'mast side' of Donegal Place tend to be of poorer quality than those on the other side (Boots excepted of course!), so perhaps they are hiding them a bit with the masts and the trees!

The masts look great and once the additional signage to re the names of ships built by H & W it think they will look the part.

Could it be that the masts have been placed on that side, as that side of the street apprears to have more sun. Always thought the side on which Boots etc is on is always in the shade??

One other point which is bugging me, is the amount of chewing gum that is stuck to the new paving. It is shameful that the public who do spit their gum out don't give two shits that their gum is gonna be welded to the paving and paving joints till kingdom come.

Reading the consulatation document on the streets ahead project, the council are supposed to tackle this problem and the problem of the street sweepers staining the paving by steam cleaning the streets within the areas with a new steam cleaning once a month.

The gum problem really needs a tackling and I for one would support a full out ban on the stuff.

I thought the chewing gum problem had been solved here. Don't they just mix it with tar and pour it on the ground as replacement for traditional paving slabs? That's what it looks like to me anyway.

My lasting solution to the problem of chewing gum on pavements, would be to make its sale totally illegal. (As per Singapore) That way all the addicts desperate for a chewing session, or whatever one does with chewing gum, will simply scrape it off themselves.

Trees not installed along Donegall Place. It is going to look fantastic in the summer:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5417826053_062158a30e_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5176/5418431828_aebbcbcdeb_b.jpg

My lasting solution to the problem of chewing gum on pavements, would be to make its sale totally illegal. (As per Singapore) That way all the addicts desperate for a chewing session, or whatever one does with chewing gum, will simply scrape it off themselves.


I actually agree with you on this, I think chewing gum should be banned or at least until a biodegradable gum is made available.

I don't think we should tar everyone with the same brush. The reason the streets are plagued with chewing gum is because people have spread the myth that it gums up your insides. If people were aware that they could swallow it safely and we rid the place of the old wives tale, then it wouldn't be stuck to the pavement.

^^

Still doesn't explain why they can't simply keep it in their mouth till they reach a bin ffs. I don't spit my gum onto the pavement, fail to see any reason why others should feel the need to do so.

It's disgusting and indicative of an individual with no civic pride or indeed manners.

Looks fantastic! And the trees hide the world buildings on Donegal Pc :D There's still a couple more spikes to go up though, isn't there?

Streets Ahead Guided Tour by AECOM representative

Saturday 26th February

Guys this may be of interest to you ... A guided tour with AECOM to explain the project - There are two tours -


9.30am Secondary & higher level students
11.00am General public


Hopefully some of you can make it along to this! Should be some interesting info and a chance to question as well!

placeni.org/place_events/2011/02/51 (http://placeni.org/place_events/2011/02/51)

^^

Still doesn't explain why they can't simply keep it in their mouth till they reach a bin ffs. I don't spit my gum onto the pavement, fail to see any reason why others should feel the need to do so.

It's disgusting and indicative of an individual with no civic pride or indeed manners.

Attempting to swallow it can make you choke. :)

But I do agree with you, keep it your mouth.

All eight masts installed along Donegall Place. Though it's hard not to be distracted by the shitness of the M&S building:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5483285576_960ca778da_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5483285576_960ca778da_b.jpg

Gonna be controversial...

I don't like the masts much. They're crammed in too close to the buildings meaning they have little visual impact and the first one takes away from the nice old R&C building beside it. If the street was twice as wide, they'd look a lot better.

Are they finished? Or is something else going to be added to them?

Gonna be controversial...

I don't like the masts much. They're crammed in too close to the buildings meaning they have little visual impact and the first one takes away from the nice old R&C building beside it. If the street was twice as wide, they'd look a lot better.

Are they finished? Or is something else going to be added to them?

I'm still a bit undecided on the masts too... possibly a bit too dominating. But, on the other hand, there are some poor buildings along that side of the road that deserve to be hidden!

There are additions to the masts to come- under the curve of each mast there will be a sign, each inscribed with references to Belfast's maritime heritage.

Info here: http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/index/urcdg-urban_regeneration/belfast-streetsahead/streets-ahead-iconic-feature-lighting.htm

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/donegall-place-580.jpg

not sure about the signs and times new roman font

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/donegall-place-580.jpg

not sure about the signs and times new roman font

Hehe, could've been worse, they might have used Courier or the dreaded Comic Sans:lol:

To be honest I would like to see it in Wingdings. I trust the signs will be a bit better than the artist's impression ;) I read somewhere before that the signing will be changed periodically to advertise local festivals. It will certainly be good to have the area better lit at night, in order to get a proper view of the chavs before getting mugged/beaten up.

I don't think the signs will be EXACTLY as shown in the 'artistic impression' for goodness sake ppl :lol:


I really like the masts actually, I think they're fabulous. Once the trees have come into season it'll look yet more fantastic.

All that's missing in those pics are the millions of blobs of chewing gum, and the tumble weeds that blow up Royal Avenue's deserted pavements every evening, once everywhere is boarded up around 5.00pm.

All that's missing in those pics are the millions of blobs of chewing gum, and the tumble weeds that blow up Royal Avenue's deserted pavements every evening, once everywhere is boarded up around 5.00pm.

6/7pm actaully and 9pm on Thursday.


I work in retail mate, trust me even at 5pm the stores are dead. Belfast DOES NOT have the population to support a late night economy.

In fact some Belfast stores open longer than stores in other British cities, majority of which are much larger. Victoria Square is open longer than stores in Glasgow and Manchester for example. It's completely ridiculous and is a loss making enterprise.

Bars, clubs and restaurants are a different matter.



You really don't have clue do you.....go and speak to Belfast retailers and then come back with a more informed opinion.

belfastuniguy...whats your problem? everything you've said agrees with SnailTrain.


Probably covering old ground....the masts - are they only only one side of the street?

belfastuniguy...whats your problem? everything you've said agrees with SnailTrain.


Probably covering old ground....the masts - are they only only one side of the street?


Snail has on previous occasions criticised Belfast city centre for closing at 5/6pm and has said it's incredibly backward and hardly good PR for a city wanting to be viewed in a new light. He usually then goes on to compare Belfast to cities like Berlin or Barcelona and asking why can't Belfast be like these simply wonderful cities.


I stated a very valid reason as to why shops close at this time. We didn't agree in the slightest.


Yes the masts are along one side. The pavement and masts have been designed to not obscure the view of City Hall from Castle Place and Royal Avenue.

6/7pm actaully and 9pm on Thursday.
I work in retail mate, trust me even at 5pm the stores are dead. Belfast DOES NOT have the population to support a late night economy.

That maybe so, but I hate it if we lost the weekday 7pm openings. :)

I remember asking one of the girls at the Castlecourt desk why they stopped the 9pm Wednesday opening and she said it wasn't working out.

That maybe so, but I hate it if we lost the weekday 7pm openings. :)

I remember asking one of the girls at the Castlecourt desk why they stopped the 9pm Wednesday opening and she said it wasn't working out.

Well the only stores that opens to 7pm on Monday and Tuesday is House of Fraser, Boots, Castlecourt and Marks and Spencer. The rest of Victoria Square closes at 6pm as do other stores in the city centre.

You can't expect stores to open when they aren't making money. Last thing we need is yet more vacant units around the city centre.

The 9pm opening on Wednesday and Friday at Victoria Square is REALLY hurting some businesses, it's completely illogical. They should and are considering seasonal based opening hours. Being open till 9 on a Wednesday night in the middle of Winter is not good for business, I know a good many of the store managers and costs on those nights are much higher than what they put through the tills.

It's called the donut effect. Blame the planners...

It's not entirely the fault of the planners to be fair.

The population of Belfast moved out of the city to the suburbs and obviously business is going to follow if they want to make money.

Thankfully the numbers living in the city centre is increasing and it's fantastic. Partner has moved into a city centre apartment and it's so so handy being able to walk to everything. As the numbers keep increasing then services and facilities will follow, that's how things work.

Greater emphasis needs to placed on city centre living and the number of new homes being approved in suburbia limited. We don't need two Dublin's on the island. Just need to look there to see how horrendous sprawl can be.

I'm more used to Dublin, which is heaving with people in the centre of town. No one will come in to town if there is nothing open, though in fairness, it's better than it used to be, but still scary, especially for tourists. (who likes wandering around bleak, deserted streets at night?)

Snail Dublin can be a ghost town at night too. Even more so than Belfast at times. AND the shops close early in Dublin aswell.

Snail Dublin can be a ghost town at night too. Even more so than Belfast at times. AND the shops close early in Dublin aswell.

Oh Plank.........look at you shattering the Dublin Delusion........shame on you ;)

AND the pavements in DUblin are shite....look at Grafton Street, the Quays, around Trinity = MESS.

Least in NI/Belfast concrete pavements are frowned upon. It's very third World!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timeabradley/5495396696/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/timeabradley/5495396696/

That looks outstanding!

That does look very sexy indeed!

That looks top class! I'd like to see a mockup of them once they go green - The oxidisation process when copper is exposed to the elements usually takes around 20 years according to an internet search.

Therefore the Waterfront dome must have about 6 years left before it turns green? Haven't noticed it changing yet, but it will be certainly interesting to see as the new copper in buildings gradually mirrors the existing domes.

That looks top class! I'd like to see a mockup of them once they go green - The oxidisation process when copper is exposed to the elements usually takes around 20 years according to an internet search.

It sorta feels gross. :lol:

The consultation responses for the Belfast on the Move project have been released...

http://www.roadsni.gov.uk/index/belfast_on_the_move/botm2-why_is_change_needed.htm

Not much more detail provided tbh

Walking down Royal Av I'm so happy to see the area transformed, the use of single lane traffic is good, HOWEVER why has it turned into a carpark? Walking down the street there is car after car parked on double yellow lines, they are blue badge holders but I thought this was disallowed, am i wrong? It takes away from the whole scheme trying to be more people friendly and keeping the feel of traffic to a minimal...also is there any plans on the streets that lead to castlecourt being transformed? I find there being such a transformation from the old to new which is a wee bit sad... maybe royal exchange will eventually lead to that area being transformed and consistent to the rest of the area.

Hope I'm not sounding really doom and gloomy here but do you find that Royal Av is the side of town that has the more 'trashy' stores now?

Also (finally) theres a refit happening in the store beside Burgerking, anyone know whats going in there?

Walking down Royal Av I'm so happy to see the area transformed, the use of single lane traffic is good, HOWEVER why has it turned into a carpark? Walking down the street there is car after car parked on double yellow lines, they are blue badge holders but I thought this was disallowed, am i wrong? It takes away from the whole scheme trying to be more people friendly and keeping the feel of traffic to a minimal...also is there any plans on the streets that lead to castlecourt being transformed? I find there being such a transformation from the old to new which is a wee bit sad... maybe royal exchange will eventually lead to that area being transformed and consistent to the rest of the area.

Hope I'm not sounding really doom and gloomy here but do you find that Royal Av is the side of town that has the more 'trashy' stores now?

Also (finally) theres a refit happening in the store beside Burgerking, anyone know whats going in there?


Blue badge parking in stupid places is something I hate - I don't dislike the scheme but I dislike users who park in stupid places.

Donegall Place is to be completely pedestrianised - The paving for this is in the depot on Corporation Street ... Probably not get done to the end of the year though when all the traffic management stuff is done and agreement is reached between everyone.

The Royal Avenue area was at one stage thought to be started by now - When Royal Exchange was to have started by now - Royal Exhange would do alot of this work and it would have tied in with Phase 1 - Obviously this hasn't happened as Royal Exchange has not happened. But when that scheme goes ahead expect to see a new public realm in this area.

At this stage the only public realm schemes progressing are Bank Square (planning app soon) and Library Quarter area (planning soon). Also, City Council are looking at options for temporary solutions to Shaftsbury Square. Apart from that TQ and Newtownards Road is the only other areas I can think of with new public realm.

Donegall Place this evening- some green on the trees again. Looks well. Just need the bollards to finally be removed!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5598891096_14f47e6e68_b.jpg

Donegall Place this evening- some green on the trees again. Looks well. Just need the bollards to finally be removed!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5598891096_14f47e6e68_b.jpg

Bollards are finally being removed with the tree bases being installed. Looks absolutely fab with the trees - looking forward to the lighting masts up and running. Was walking around town today and was absolutely amazing by the amount of rubbish there is...also has anyone found that the new paving is aways stained by something? It's never clean...?

The cleaning of the paving needs to be addressed to be honest. The current cleaning machines just don't seem to be cutting it.

The paving needs a good power wash. Though this may be planned once works are complete, likely an all night job.

The above is deadly. Beautiful stuff.

They're started to wire the new masts, must be close to being fully completed now. Be great to see them finished

Further progress with the masts- wiring complete and lighting seemingly installed on the mast nearest City Hall. Ship names have appeared on 5 masts too.

Titanic is on the mast nearest City Hall- and you can see the completed light installation above the name.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5690870673_e49c5a5004_b.jpg

Street furniture beginning to be installed along Donegall Place too:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5106/5690872189_b8f237d128_b.jpg

Names so far:

Titanic, Olympic, Oceanic, Britannic, Laurentic.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5148/5691442226_f89ab463d3_m.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5147/5691462314_05a344fe4d_m.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5690890737_a34e27bdf9_m.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5310/5690893373_80a4c4de97_m.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5691468326_71cfc72260_m.jpg

Liking the masts a lot. Just wondering when the next phase of streets ahead starts on lower royal avenue and surrounding streets?

^^ I think it continues down Royal Av. Not 100% sure though. Great pics hypnotoad! The masts look great :) Does anyone know if trees will be installed at Castle Place?

^^ I think it continues down Royal Av. Not 100% sure though. Great pics hypnotoad! The masts look great :) Does anyone know if trees will be installed at Castle Place?

Some trees there would be nice.. but i don't recall seeing any big obvious tarmac squares amongst the paving there for trees... so i would guess not!

Anyway, the lights on the Titanic mast are working. The name is illuminated by small yellow lights behind each letter, while the strip constantly changes colour. All together, it looks lovely, but it is hard to tell from the photos below in the sunlight! Also, it doesn't look like it will be too long before the sail type things arrive- there are obvious metal supports protruding from each mast now waiting for them.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3466/5704833065_2583f4cd8c_z.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3192/5705397328_7fbd5d035d_z.jpg


Liking the masts a lot. Just wondering when the next phase of streets ahead starts on lower royal avenue and surrounding streets?

I remember being able to see online plans for 7 phases of Streets Ahead. Cannot find them at all now! I wonder if they have been quietly dropped while money is tight? The Royal Avenue stuff will probably coincide with Royal Exchange... whenever that happens! I would love the next phase to be High Street- the pavement on it in places is shambolic... then again, so is Royal Avenue!

I'm raging that Castle Place hasn't had trees added, then again neither has Arthur Street, which is another wasted opportunity.

Ann Street is understandable given the vast amount of utilities that had to be installed for Vic Sq.

Some evening shots of the fantastic new lights at Donegall Place.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/peterram/Photo1280.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/peterram/Photo1281.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa112/peterram/Photo1279.jpg

^^Nice!

Here are a few more- it really does look fantastic when you walk along the street at night. Just need somebody to come along and sort out the disgusting M&S frontage!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2779/5713914865_9f986af47c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3438/5713916273_c86d963f78_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/5714478390_7805c0ceb3_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/5714479392_ab019d4b51_b.jpg

Am I the only person who likes the new M&S? I think it looks well, and although modern, fits in well with the street. It is a million times better than the old one.

Lighting looks fantastic, hopefully should work as a catalyst for filling some of the empty shops.

I like the M&S frontage as well. I'm a hell of a lot more concerned with the sheer horrificness of the Boots and BVCB building.

Agreed, the Boots building is an eyesore. The Belfast Welcome Centre should be housed either in an architectural gem or some sort of landmark building- the main Dublin tourist office is an example of this, although it is a bit chaotic inside.

Don't mind M&S at all, and I think the tourist centre is a decent building, but it's just not fit for it's purpose. I think the worst building on the whole street is the Vodafone/Clinton cards place. It's a bland, soviet styled mess.

The scheme looks unreal btw! I'm really impressed :D

Don't mind M&S at all, and I think the tourist centre is a decent building, but it's just not fit for it's purpose. I think the worst building on the whole street is the Vodafone/Clinton cards place. It's a bland, soviet styled mess.

The scheme looks unreal btw! I'm really impressed :D

Yep- the Clinton Cards building is utterly woeful. And the Boots building isn't the worst on the Donegall Place side- the Fountain Street side, however, is horrific.

The sails are up on the masts along Donegall Place. The lighting also looked fantastic- each mast was illuminated with a full spectrum of colour. It looked immense- sadly it wasn't dark enough for the camera to capture properly... or rather, i couldn't be bothered flicking through all the menus to find a suitable mode!

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6195478165_9cdddf881a_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6195480675_2526421762_b.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6195482967_d01048c414_b.jpg

News on Phase 2 of Streets Ahead...

Social Development Minister Nelson McCausland, has announced the appointment of local company McAdam Design to develop proposals for the public areas around Belfast City Hall. The estimated cost of this design contract is £900,000.

Tuesday, 21 February 2012

Minister McCausland said: “Today’s announcement starts the process of engaging with key stakeholders and the general public about the high specification public realm that we want to create around our city hall. Following the successful completion of the improvement of the 14 streets in the main shopping area, we now have an opportunity to build on this by presenting Belfast City Hall as the jewel in the crown.

“I will be setting up a stakeholder group made up of private, public and community sector representatives to advise the design team on the key elements for this area. The design team will produce a range of options leading to a preferred design to be submitted for planning approval by 2013.

“One of the exciting opportunities includes: getting a better balance between buses and pedestrians in the area, which ultimately could lead to the removal of buses from around the city hall or alternatively not having them continually parked in the area but simply dropping passengers off and collecting them.

“This project will also be closely integrated with the emerging rapid transport proposals for the city centre.

“Belfast has undergone a remarkable transformation in recent years, it is important that we continue to build on the good work already completed during Phase 1 of The Belfast Streets Ahead programme. Having already invested £28million in the public realm of the city centre this continued work in Phase 2 of the programme will create a world-class streetscape in the area around Belfast’s iconic City Hall.

“It is important to me to ensure that all sections of the community have an opportunity to provide their input to the development of proposals for the upgrading of this highly important part of the city centre. Therefore, my Department will work closely with Belfast City Council, the Department for Regional Development’s Roads Service, Translink, organisations representing the interests of people with disabilities, other public and private sector stakeholders."

In welcoming their appointment Reynold Anthony, senior partner McAdam Design stated: “We are delighted to have been awarded the commission for Phase 2 of the Belfast Streets Ahead project. Our company is a local Belfast firm and one of Northern Ireland’s largest independent consultancies. We have extensive experience in delivering large public realm and infra-structure projects across Northern Ireland including, the Oasis Project Omagh, the Peace Bridge and the Connswater Community Greenway. Our integrated consultant team, which includes Optimised Environments (Landscape Architects), JCP( M&E and Cost Consultants), have just successfully completed the Ebrington Parade Ground public realm project for Ilex and we look forward to assisting DSD and other key stakeholders such as Belfast City Council with the transformation of the public realm in the vicinity of the Belfast City Hall.”

Belfast Chamber of Trade and Commerce President, Joe Jordan, signalled the retail sector’s approval for the announcement: “The Belfast Chamber of Trade and Commence is delighted that DSD is taking forward the second phase of the Belfast Streets Ahead programme. This scheme will build on the new public realm delivered as part of Phase 1 which has helped to help install civic pride in our great city.”

Notes to editors:

The area to be developed in Donegall Square North, East and West.
Identification of the preferred option will take place following completion of concept designs and will be subject to public consultation.
Implementation of the preferred option will be subject to economic appraisal and funding availability and satisfying all the necessary statutory requirements including obtaining planning permission.
McAdam Design is one of the largest independent multi-disciplinary consultancy practices working in Northern Ireland. Established in 1963, the practice initially focused on Civil Engineering Projects with Architecture added as a separate discipline in 1975. They have delivered large scale Urban Regeneration projects important to the development of Northern Ireland including Ebrington Public Realm and the Peace Bridge in Londonderry.
The McAdam Design Integrated Consultant Team consists of the following members:

McAdam Design
JCP Consulting
Optimised Environments Ltd, (OPEN)
Spiers and Major
Strategic Planning
People Friendly Design
Jencore Consulting
Urban Condition
Further information on the Belfast Streets Ahead programme can be found on DSD’s website: http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/belfast-streetsahead.htm
Implementation of the preferred design will be subject to obtaining planning approval, approval of the business case and securing available funding.

I think it's a real shame that Royal Avenue is left as it is, it has become a blight on the city centre.

I was watching Come Dine With Me which is in Belfast this week and twice they showed sequences in the city centre and it looked disgusting. Will this work be delayed until they decide what to do with Royal Exchange?

Of course the area around the City Hall has to look immaculate, but in the grand scheme of things it looks a hell of a lot better now than some parts of the city centre which need critical attention. If I worked in Castlecourt or was the new owner I would be extremely concerned about the lack of investment in the area compared with the rest of the centre.

Yeah, I dont get why they just stopped half way down Royal Avenue and left the side-streets and the lower half, especially the dire shambles that is North Street. If Royal Exchange isnt going ahead they should redevelop there first.

In fairness, I can see why Royal Av was left. I think its far more important that High Street is sorted out soon. here are about 3 different types of street lights, no trees at the top end of the street, the road needs relaid and the footpaths are just a mess and need to be de-cluttered. Royal Av is ugly, but it's worth waiting for the Royal Exchange project in the long term.

I thought Royal Exchange wasnt going ahead tho?

I most likely will eventually. I think there's a push for it to start by 2015, but I aint sure.

I thought Royal Exchange wasnt going ahead tho?

At the minute it will be going ahead- the council have earmarked it as one of their priority areas of investment for the 2012-2015 period. But i'm absolutely with you on the need for revamping Royal Avenue- the chicane layout and the salmon and yellow paving, covered in chewing gum, is absolutely horrendous looking. As Conor alluded to though, it is but one of a list of streets requiring attention.... a list that covers pretty much every street that hasn't been looked at by Streets Ahead already lol. Like Conor, I would prioritise High Street too- given the Merchant Hotel now fronts onto it now, guests walking from there to City Hall etc. should not have to negotiate the crap that currently exists as the High Street pavement.

Having one posh hotel which let's face it already faces the In Shops isn't a prime reason for re-paving High Street over and above other places. If the posh guests are suitably offended by the paving slabs, they can journey out the other entrance and down the historic cobbled streets of the Cathedral Quarter.

Castlecourt and the retail district should be supported by Streets ahead. Royal Avenue looks horrendous, but I do agree that there are lots of areas which are in as dire need.

The City Hall isn't one of them, and I don't think the paving around High Street is that bad, comparatively speaking.

Having one posh hotel which let's face it already faces the In Shops isn't a prime reason for re-paving High Street over and above other places. If the posh guests are suitably offended by the paving slabs, they can journey out the other entrance and down the historic cobbled streets of the Cathedral Quarter.


Indeed, in my rush earlier i forgot to add that High Street would be the main route for people between the City Hall area and the Cathedral Quarter, and also for people walking to the Odyssey/Titanic Quarter. Parts of it are either very cluttered or the surface is uneven and prone to collecting water too... but yeah, you could be blindfolded and stick a pin on a map of the city centre and land on a street that could do with some attention!

Indeed, in my rush earlier i forgot to add that High Street would be the main route for people between the City Hall area and the Cathedral Quarter, and also for people walking to the Odyssey/Titanic Quarter. Parts of it are either very cluttered or the surface is uneven and prone to collecting water too... but yeah, you could be blindfolded and stick a pin on a map of the city centre and land on a street that could do with some attention!

Improvements to High Street would be my preferred option, purely because the streetscape (and not just the paving) is such a mess. It's not possible to stroll from Albert Clock to McDonald's in a straight line; one has to zigzag between bus shelters, phone booths, electricity distribution boxes, advertising signs, chairs and tables outside cafes, inexplicably-located lamp posts etc.

It's a real mess, and during a busy period it's impossible to get anywhere fast, as everyone realises they have to operate a pedestrian give-way system!

It's possible that Royal Avenue could be improved closer to the completion date of the UU redevelopment. That would be logical, I suppose.

Improvements to High Street would be my preferred option, purely because the streetscape (and not just the paving) is such a mess. It's not possible to stroll from Albert Clock to McDonald's in a straight line; one has to zigzag between bus shelters, phone booths, electricity distribution boxes, advertising signs, chairs and tables outside cafes, inexplicably-located lamp posts etc.

It's a real mess, and during a busy period it's impossible to get anywhere fast, as everyone realises they have to operate a pedestrian give-way system!

It's possible that Royal Avenue could be improved closer to the completion date of the UU redevelopment. That would be logical, I suppose.

I don't see Royal Avenue happening until Royal Exchange gets underway (It will in some form - Though I hope the current scheme is amended before approval). Same for Lombard Street, Rosemary Street, North Street, etc.

After Phase 2 Donegall Square I would focus on either the route from City Hall past the Europa down Great Victoria Street / Dublin Road to the Queens area. OR as you guys all say - the link to Titanic Quarter and Cathedral Quarter. When High Street is addressed one day I think the most important thing is to either widen the pavements significantly and reduce lane widths or introduce some sort of shared street arrangement with the views of the Albert Clock and H&W cranes much more of a feature at the end. I would also then implement a much more improved crossing of Victoria Street to reach the river.

I can understand that Royal Avenue hasnt been included in the streets ahead due to the Ro9yal Exchange project being pushed forward. This means a large amount of demolition, especially when you consider how large an area this will cover. It does not make economic or finacial sense to spend hundreds of thousands to millions digging up pavements and relaying them, when they will be dug up again in a few years time for the Royal Exchange - it means more man-power laying and digging the pavements up, which therefore costs more money.

High Street is in need of a serious makeover, it is not aesthetically pleasing walking down the street and looking at so many sub-standard and downright bizarrely appearing buildings in one smallish area.

The more time I've had to get used to them, the more I regret they put the masts/ tusks in Donegall Place. Too much clutter and they obscure the view of the City Hall. If they want to turn Dunbar Link into a 'boulevard' then the tusks would look good in the central reservation. But commissioning them for the main shopping street just seems like a case of having money left over in a public works bank account and not properly thinking what it could best be put to use for.

I disagree completely, they look absolutely stunning. They don't obscure the view of City Hall as they taper to the left and have been designed to not block the view. The mast along with the graphics, lighting and backlit info plates look fantastic and a great addition.

I disagree completely, they look absolutely stunning. They don't obscure the view of City Hall as they taper to the left and have been designed to not block the view. The mast along with the graphics, lighting and backlit info plates look fantastic and a great addition.

Seconded, they are a great and tasteful addition to the city centre and without them the street would look completely dead.

Seconded, they are a great and tasteful addition to the city centre and without them the street would look completely dead.

Why would the street look dead? Because the pavement is too wide?

The pavement is wider and the shops are slowly but surely disappearing. The new street furniture and lighting draws your eyes away from the empty shopfronts of Peacocks, etc. The Belfast Welcome centre leaving soon will leave another empty space.