it just saddens me how downtown beirut was full of LIFE back then...while now it's like a ghost town except for a couple of month where u see khalijis smoking arghileh and that's about it :/...how i wish the city would be as it was back then...so sad

^^ Do you really want Martyrs Square to turn into the Cola Intersection?

You have to remember that Downtown is mostly still yet to be developed. The Souks JUST opened - let's wait and see before we judge.

you guys keep on forgetting something, the previous Lebanese generation, that which lived in the 50s and 60s was a more dynamic more sophisticated more educated and more vital one than our current generation... our generation cares about nothing but dressing all up (girls to get attention and guys to hit on girls) smoking a nargileh and then driving their speedy car and drifting on the roads not to forget that no one speaks Lebanese anymore, for wherever you go everyone speaks either english or french, so seriously guys there's nothing wrong with the current downtown, it's about the people, lets admit it, our generation is shallow, naive, and superficial... we don't care about sports or art or culture or knowledge, we just wanna have fun and live the " AMERICAN DREAM " or a European way of living, for instance i am sure that any Lebanese would rather go to skybar and keep the party party party going on, rather than watching a play for the rahbani... so like i said earlier, it's all about us, we can bring life back to the downtown or we can just leave it the way it is, because our prestige wont let us hang out where the khaliji's are ...

^^ Do you really want Martyrs Square to turn into the Cola Intersection?

You have to remember that Downtown is mostly still yet to be developed. The Souks JUST opened - let's wait and see before we judge.

One thing that i have ALWAYS wondered..does anyone live in those buildings in the downtown or are they hollow from the inside or what?

you guys keep on forgetting something, the previous Lebanese generation, that which lived in the 50s and 60s was a more dynamic more sophisticated more educated and more vital one than our current generation... our generation cares about nothing but dressing all up (girls to get attention and guys to hit on girls) smoking a nargileh and then driving their speedy car and drifting on the roads not to forget that no one speaks Lebanese anymore, for wherever you go everyone speaks either english or french, so seriously guys there's nothing wrong with the current downtown, it's about the people, lets admit it, our generation is shallow, naive, and superficial... we don't care about sports or art or culture or knowledge, we just wanna have fun and live the " AMERICAN DREAM " or a European way of living, for instance i am sure that any Lebanese would rather go to skybar and keep the party party party going on, rather than watching a play for the rahbani... so like i said earlier, it's all about us, we can bring life back to the downtown or we can just leave it the way it is, because our prestige wont let us hang out where the khaliji's are ...

LOL....God!...biting the hand that's feeding us, are we?...

You know, I like Lebanon and everything but there is something that really irks me...

I went to Lebanon with a good friend of mine and we met really amazing, intelligent, humble, sophisticated people and it was amazing....despite the "oh I didn't know Khalijis know about this or that..." which is understandable since a lot of the type of Khalijis that vacation in Lebanon do act like peasants sometimes, but we had the displeasure of meeting a whole lot of sour apples as well. Let me just be superficial here, ok? My friend is an architect with a masters degree from an Ivy League school, he's wearing Comme des Garçons, he lives in New York, he's traveled and seen more places than 3/4 of the population of Lebanon only wishes they've seen but still they have this attitude, it's unbelievable!....where does this Guido with a kilo of gel in his hair, wearing a nasty Zara shirt opened down to his belly button, a gold chain and no high school diploma get off acting so grand, like he's Marie-Hélène de Rothschild? Or this "woman" (who's sexuality is questionable at best) whose wildly drawn on lip-liner is no where near her actual lip line, and whose "blond" hair (beyond science fiction) is teased out to here, and she's giving us the side-glances like she's going to vomit...where does this haughtiness come from? It really boggles the mind!

Sorry if this comment seems rambling and off topic, but that comment brought back some really "interesting" memories from last spring.

KWT, first of all i wouldn't agree with you that the khalejis are the hand that's feeding us, they along with all other Arab countries have contributed in the destruction and the retardation of Lebanon, when Lebanon was known as the pearl of the middle east and Switzerland of the east, people in the gulf states were still living in tents, all Arab countries contributed in the Lebanese civil war so that they could take Lebanon's role and image in the middle east, and they have succeeded, so the truth is that no matter how much money they deposit in our banks or how much investments they make in Lebanon or how much humanitarian aid they send us it's just a small part of their duty towards Lebanon if you ask me ... that being said, i was not confirming that we should not be hanging out where the khaleji's are, on the contrary i was criticizing this Lebanese mentality that is obviously shallow and stupid, and as a matter of fact i think 90% of the Lebanese people who live in Lebanon are just fake superficial people who either like to brag about their money or pretend they are something that they're not by giving up Lebanese traditions and culture and even language... For god's sake i'm sure all of you guys know AMIN MAALOUF the author, the man writes only in French, and has won the highest prize in French literature Prix Goncourt and yet whenever he's interviewed on a Lebanese channel, the guy only speaks pure Lebanese, in more than 3 interviews that i watched for him, i kept waiting to see if he's gonna speak in French and he never said one single word in French... I believe it just takes a Lebanese to live abroad for a while to realize what's important in life...

I think the issue to many Lebanese is that the Khaleejis are bringing their lifestyle into "our" city center and this is diminishing the Lebanese authenticity of the capital. Lebanese often feel like the minority in such places. Plus, the image of a woman dressed in all black with only her eyes showing (sometimes) is not an image we would like to project to the rest of the world, as this does not represent our country.

However, if we want Beirut to be accepted as a world-class international city, unfortunately this is the price to pay. Most touristic international cities have more foreigners on the streets than locals.

i couldn't agree more ...

^^ True, 90 percent of lebanese living lebanon, are fed up with the country, want to go elsewhere, be someone else, but as soon as they move away from the country there like holy shit!! I have been living in the most beautiful country in the world, and i wasted the whole time complaining that i want to be like europeans and westerners. Then they recognize the unique lebanese life that they have been trying to flee away from. I know soooooo much people thats happened to, including my parents. Only the lebanese expats really feel what their country is about. But it is a intresting experice going to lebanon in non-summer months, its funny the city becomes laid back, much more street life, and its like the lebanese are in their own little world. :nuts:

For the thing about downtown, lebkm barely any lebanese locals can afford it. And they honestly dont like it because like i mentioned earlier, its not practical. It does not have the downtown "feel", for a proper downtown you need all social classe, all types of retail, mindled toegether, and you need tenants in the buoldings, im thinking along the lines of maanesh, hotdog stands, life, the lebanese "juww" think hamra, aley, gemyazahh, its good to have a commercial hub, but it can also be like the rest of the world's commerical hubs, a functioning, practical commerical hub. And you can not expect lebanese to fully function with khaliejs, its a whole different culture, and many lebanese gasp when they see what they do and what they where, furthermore, the complete double standard they portray when they visit the country. Ex, i live in abu dhabi, i am grateful for the country's people for giving my family a oppurtunity to escape the us reccesion, but with my lebanese background, i just cannot get along with them, imagine sitting in a table, segregated gender, and all the weird things they follow it just does not work! And no offense kwt, i would like to reinforce lebkm point, that Lebanon is the everything of the middle east, and jealousy prevails in other middle east countries.

I don't like the BCD because it promotes a fabricated manufactured image of Lebanon that is not shared with 99% of the pop. Its comodified history and fake authenticity. Plus the entire town has a clear khaliji feel to it, from the design of the streets, to the activities you can do there. The entire area is actually really sub urban and not characteristic of an urban center at all. Also its a way for tourists to enjoy harriri's version of lebanon without dealing with the real lebanon. Unfortunatley our "City Centre" is nothing more than a tourist trap or a resort for tourists. As far as I am concerned if I would ever guide someone on an urban tour of beirut it would involve Hamra, bliss st, Gemmeyze.

i like the whole concept of reconstructing lebanon, because as everyone who's ever been to lebanon can tell that our infrastructure is awful, but i totally agree that lebanese don't relate to bcd and most don't like to visit it. I feel that it's necessary to give beirut a face lift as long as it ends up pleasing mainly the lebanese and not khalijis or other foreigners.

you guys seriously now i can't understand how any place can be built for one kind of people, i don't see any relation between downtown and the khalejis, the style of the streets the buildings the light bulbs and everything else is obviously French and has nothing to do with the gulf... besides you guys keep forgetting that just few years back, the DT used to be full of Lebanese people, it wasn't for the khalejis at that time ?? another thing Lebnani, i believe the restoration of Hamra street was included also in hariri's vision for Beirut, isn't it so ? my point is that it is not true that hariri's main point was to build something for the khalejis... I have a question, where would you find more khalejis in downtown, or in ALLEY and SAWFAR ??? from what i see every time i go to Lebanon, alley and sawfar have much more khalejis than DT, can anyone claim that alley and sawfar are made for khalejis too? i highly doubt that ... it's just like i said earlier it's about us not about the khalejis... and don't go telling me that many people cannot afford the dt, because this is obviously a place with luxurious stores and it is normal that only rich people can afford them, but am sure all kinds of people can afford taking a drink in downtown... Another thing, there is another reason why not all people go to downtown, and that's the stupid religious differences, for instance the least percentage of people who go to downtown are Christians because they think it's a muslim place even though it's not, Christians don't even go to verdun or hamra or any place with a muslim majority, then you have Shi'aa who believe it's a sunni place full of khalejis which is again not true... i agree with you Lebnani that we probably need different kinds of activities that would drag more Lebanese, but tell me what does a Lebanese who live in Lebanon like to do??? i mean Lebanese people don't even go to the movies, every time i go to the cinema, it's more than half empty, i seriously don't know what attracts the Lebanese who live in Lebanon other than clubbing, partying, and clubbing again and maybe smoke a nargileh when they're done clubbing ...

Well, according to the official Bac2 Sociology book, the down town we see now is the 2nd plan for the BCD reconstruction project. The first BCD master plan was harshly attacked by some lebanese factions, as such it was changed into its current style. According to the book, the initail plan was to make BCD resemble the citycenters of modern Western cities (ie, highrise buildings & glass-and-steel towers instead of the low rise ottoman-parisian style buildings we currently have). But the plan got accused of changing Beirut's medeterenean feel and replacing its traditional architecture with contemporary designs that do not resemble beirut's atmosphere. The plan was also criticised for its TOO HIGH towers and TOO WIDE boulevards.

and about BCD being a "ghost city", the book mentions that by the time the project is finished and BCD is completely rebuilt (in 2020 ???) more than 110,000 people will head to BCD everyday for work, and more than 400,000 people will head their everyday for shopping, leisure, recreation, entertainment...etc

LOL....God!...biting the hand that's feeding us, are we?...

You know, I like Lebanon and everything but there is something that really irks me...

I went to Lebanon with a good friend of mine and we met really amazing, intelligent, humble, sophisticated people and it was amazing....despite the "oh I didn't know Khalijis know about this or that..." which is understandable since a lot of the type of Khalijis that vacation in Lebanon do act like peasants sometimes, but we had the displeasure of meeting a whole lot of sour apples as well. Let me just be superficial here, ok? My friend is an architect with a masters degree from an Ivy League school, he's wearing Comme des Garçons, he lives in New York, he's traveled and seen more places than 3/4 of the population of Lebanon only wishes they've seen but still they have this attitude, it's unbelievable!....where does this Guido with a kilo of gel in his hair, wearing a nasty Zara shirt opened down to his belly button, a gold chain and no high school diploma get off acting so grand, like he's Marie-Hélène de Rothschild? Or this "woman" (who's sexuality is questionable at best) whose wildly drawn on lip-liner is no where near her actual lip line, and whose "blond" hair (beyond science fiction) is teased out to here, and she's giving us the side-glances like she's going to vomit...where does this haughtiness come from? It really boggles the mind!

Sorry if this comment seems rambling and off topic, but that comment brought back some really "interesting" memories from last spring.

Agree :)

i think it's too early to judge the BCD's "New spirit"as we r still in a transition phase,BCD is not completed yet.

I understand what u guys are saying about the BCD, I wasn't referring to it specifically since i even didn't step one foot there (I'll take Hamra or Gemmeyze over BCD anytime)...but I guess I was just referring to a general atmosphere of delusions of grandeur. I live in New York and nobody acts like that, if you're cool, you're cool and that's that. But in Lebanon I guess they think it's "sophisticated" or something to act like that towards anybody they think is a khaleeji :lol:, even though the person doing the judging is the person that needs to be judged (if we're going around and judging people)...And as I said Comme des Garçons, not burqa...it's pretty easy to differentiate the two. That said, Lebanon is a lovely place and i would go there again. My other friend, actually, just got an apartment in the Bernard Khouri building under construction in Achrafieh next to the darak and those long steps, I'm not sure what the street is called but I can't wait to see it finished!

And PS: As for the buildings in the BCD looking "French" (does that make them more Lebanese?), I thought they were built by the Ottomans and not during the Mandate. I might b wrong.

when Lebanon was known as the pearl of the middle east and Switzerland of the east, people in the gulf states were still living in tents

Also, fyi, my family and many other people's families never lived in a tent, my dear.

To Lebanese who are complaining that there are too much khalijis in DT: why don't you strat going there yourselves, perhaps the proportion of black covered women would decreases.

I like DT a lot, but for me, Beirut = Ras Beirut mostly (Hamra, Rawche, Ramlet el Bayda, Verdun)

Also, fyi, my family and many other people's families never lived in a tent, my dear.

But they didn't live the way Lebanese lived back then either.
For example Riyadh today has absolutely nothing to do with it used to be 15 years earlier, so just imagine it in the 60's.

^^ Not All Khalijis the same.

^^I didn't understand what you're trying to say...

Obviously,Riyadh in the 60s is not like Kuwait city or Baghdad in the 60s.

first of all, be it French or Ottoman, it doesn't make it any more or less Lebanese, but the point is that it certainly has nothing to do with the gulf, i don't even know if there is a certain style that we could refer to when we think of buildings in the gulf...
By the way, when you said biting the hand that's feeding us, i thought you're Lebanese, but obviously you're not, and thus i find what you said now even more unacceptable, for no one is feeding us, and we're not used to bite the hand of those who help us...

Hassoun you are right, this is still a transition phase, and that is the only thing that keeps me hopeful is that really 3/4 of downtown beirut is still under construction or still an empty plot of land. So this is probably one of the main reasons for the empty atmosphere downtown. I mean after you walk past beirut souks, or even Elie Saab, really there is NOTHING and no one but security gaurds looking at you up and down.

BUT....

What is bothering me isn't an issue of development or architecture, but of a fundamental definition of the word "City Center". The idea of city center is a hub of business and culture. But You can't just put lipstick on a pig and call it pretty. The issue is, there is an unnatural manufactured feeling to the entire area; I am talking about an organic environment of culture.

I am sure all of you have read or heard Downtown being refereed to as Harriri's Disney land. This reference comes for the fact that one of the markers of Disney land is streets lined with fake town and village houses resembling either a fantasy, foreign or American colonial architecture. Where the artifice lies is the fact that these buildings aesthetics have no correlation to its function or culture anymore. And its not a matter of a building being native to its culture, but the fact that architecture is created out of utility ... the buildings downtown are being utilized in an unnatural way. There is a conservatism and sterile utility to the entire area, which is very un-lebanese. And I argue that is what is so uncomfortable about the area. The Mandate era downtown was created and utilized in a way that is very different from the way it is utilized now. An area that was in fact a gathering place for all is now in fact a gathering place for a specific class of people.

There has been a schism in the use and history of those buildings and what we associate with our ideas of downtown, and what downtown is now, and that is what is uncomfortable to us as Lebanese. When we go down, what is highlighted is the fact that these are historical buildings, restored artifacts that we cannot touch. Very similar to the temples of baallbeck. These are not buildings of public use, to be utilized and lived in but private exclusive artifacts to be visited. The buildings are the same, but it is not the same area, this is no longer beirut's current downtown, but beirut's old downtown to be gawked at.

The entire area is too clean, too neat, too fresh .... too fake. I think one of the issues is the overwhelming amount of security officers, army personnel, road blocks. The fact that the majority of the restored area is pedestrian only, and the fact that there are no pedestrians in some areas is unsettling, and not attractive, or welcoming. There is a comfort in the knowledge that you are surrounded by other people that is absent downtown. Also I know personally I feel uncomfortable when I am sitting somewhere and a security guard inches close to me to make sure I am not doing anything or is just staring at me. Is this how other city centers work?

We need to encourage local and mixed commercial and service industries. I would love to see restaurants like barbar open downtown. Have street musicians and sidewalk chalk artists. A modern multifloor, multimedia public and reference library. I would love to see the reclaimed land be home to media outlets, Corporations. Museums, art galleries. The best thing Solidere can also do is re- establish something like a tramp or a bus that travels to and from solidere to other parts of beirut, like from Hamra to Solidere, and Achrafiyeh to Solidere roots. We need to start thinking of Solidere as a the "Center" of beirut, this is where you need to go to get things done.

You walk anywhere downtown New York, Toronto, Montreal and you see street vendors, Cheap clothing stores next to expensive brands, across the street from that you would find (at street level) a tv station like MTV music or VH1 and camera men filming people and conducting interviews. There is this thing called speakers corner which was basically a booth where people pay a few dollars and talk about anything random issues topics, state their opinion, or sing songs, or sometimes just goof around, and then those ads would be put on tv as part of a "speakers corner" segement. I know this is far fetched in beirut because this would only be used to bash someone politically...

my point is, we need to start sowing BCD into the social fabric of greater beirut because it has been dislocated from the average persons life for about 40 years since the beginning of the civil war. In essence we are talking about and area that has been erased from the memory and has no positive associations anymore.

Maybe your family and many other families didn't, but please you could look for some videos or photos of the gulf during the 50's and the 60's and we can compare them to photos of Lebanon, and we'll see the difference

Lebnani, what you said makes a lot of sense and i totally agree with it... but who is supposed to do all this? if not us , if not the Lebanese people, if we don't encourage all this and we don't call on solidere to have all what you said in BCD, then who else is supposed to do it for us ?

EXACTLY!!!

We need to demand things from Solidere, we have to realize that bottom line, they are motivated on making the highest bang for their buck. They are catering to a specific clientel.

The things that can be done, is a reduction in rent prices, flexibility in aesthetic requirements for buildings. I think buildings that just have sand stone color and are very simple just to fit in the area actually part of the problem, we can't just keep re creating the image of old beirut, we need to recognize that 'OLD beirut" is gone. Which is why I love Bernard Khory's designs because they acknowledge a departure of what was and attempt to create a new Environment, for a New Downtown Beirut. We can't re create, restore, or forget that a war DESTROYED downtown.

All the lebanese need to send complaints to solidere. Thats just it plain and simple.

Also I really hate that Harriri has a private garden, one of the only green spaces in BCD and we are not allowed to set foot in it.

We need to demand our right to our city. As long as Solidere and the Harriri's keep treating BCD as their private property, BCD will always be this sterile, uncomfortable and unwelcoming. To the lebanese and western tourists (I had more than one group of friends coming from Canada... they were not mid eastern at all, and they all wanted to get out of BCD ASAP because of the sterile feeling, and the many security gaurds)

I have no problem hanging out with Khaliji's , but it says something when no one else is in those areas, its because a westerner is not used to the constructed environment neither is the local Lebanese. Khaliji's are used to this false, bastardized culture in their own country, we've packaged BCD to be the lebanese equivalent.

^^ i respect ur opinion about the function and atmosphere of DT

but about the architecture, in my previous post i mentioned how solidere initially made a plan for a modern state of the art city center that resembles western cities in terms of urban planning and zoning, however that masterplan was attacked brutally, so solidere was forced to change the concept from constructing a new citycenter to rebuilding the old one......

But there is something of a medium ground, plus it is not just the simple matter of cladding. But more of atmosphere and cohesion.

I mean fine, solidere changed and made BCD more tradition, it still doesn't fit in with the rest of beirut. The ppl who sounded against solidere the first time either didn't know what they were asking for or didn't go all the way.

^^ i think they didn't know what they were nagging about

Not to turn this thread political. But The main problem in Lebanon is the lack of civilian agency.

Look at everyone on the streets and look at our families in our homes, don't we all just complain and bitch about how no one is doing anything. The lebanese don't demand things from their government, and as civilians we don't hold the government responsible or accountable for anything. And that is the underlying problem, the lebanese take things laying down. Sad to say. We are always defeated before the battle has even begun

when u walk into dt you get a feeling that you went from one country to another... it doesn't blend in at all, and that's not something someone should perceive by changing spots inside a city but at the same time i feel that beirut in general should be more like dt and not dt like beirut. Even though we brag about our capital city, it's not the prettiest nor the cleanest BY FAR. So the way i see it is, once bcd is complete and there's no longer any cranes above your head nor empty or unihabited buildings, us lebanese will feel like we're in beirut and not in a foreign place, because that's the feeling people get when an entirely new area pops out of nowhere in a city. And maybe we'll feel inspired enough to maintain the rest of beirut in much better conditions, cuz having nice restaurants or cars doesn't make a city beautiful, we need to make it look better by painting buildings, paving streets putting stop lights, etc... that way bcd won't look SO out of place.

by the way, i'm totally with you lebnani on the whole guards thing and the fact that it feels like hariri owns the place because of the fact that he developed solidere.

^^ The only problem is the ENORMOUS amount of security guards every were that constantly stare you down! You have to admit that Solidere is trying its best to make the DT a rea; "Down Town" by trying to have art exhibits, tents, events, etc...

I think people are overreacting. Let's take a step back and look at all the GOOD things Solidere has done. They didnt have to renovate classic downtown architecture or re-construct historic sites like the Souks - but they did. They didnt have to unearth all of the ancient ruins and incorporate them into the city planning - but they did. I can go on and on but the bottom line is that the BCD is still FAR from complete. We cant judge yet.

Also, when Nijmeh Square first opened, it was PACKED with LEBANESE. Then, as usual, people got bored and starting going elsewhere. Remember Monnot St? That was the place to be a few years ago, now it has been substituted with Gemmayze St. My point is popularity comes and goes in Lebanon and this may be the reason for the lack of vibrancy downtown since it became "uncool".

By the way, does anyone even read the Solidere reports? If you did, you would know about some of the street life (concerts, art galleries, fashion shows, farmers' markets, etc) that are organized periodically. I remember over the past couple years every time I went to downtown there was something new and different going on. The recent "carnival" in Martyrs' Square is just one example.

So lets stop bashing Solidere and the Hariris when we all know they are doing everything they can to improve the area in spite of years of economic turmoil and, of course, let us not forget the sit-in that dealt a severe blow to the area which it is still trying to recover from.

And about the security... can you really blame them? Who's fault is it that we require such security - how about we blame them?

One more thing, about the BCD feeling "fake" and similar to Gulf cities, we must remember that the area was vacant and a no-man's land for years until it was resurrected. It is not easy to re-integrate this area into Beirut and it will be a gradual process. You cant blame this on Solidere. Also, whenever an entire part of a city is constructed from scratch (i.e. Gulf cities) it is going to have that sanitized feel - but I am certainly noticing a shift towards becoming more "Lebanese."

Beiruti THANK YOU !!!!!!!! finally someone who thinks exactly like i do

Beiruti THANK YOU !!!!!!!! finally someone who thinks exactly like i do

You're welcome...I felt you needed some back-up!

loool i really needed that, i was feeling like it's me against the world hehe

LOL guys

a) The fact that there is allot wrong, doesn't mean that what we have so far isn't good. However.....THERE IS ALLOT WRONG

b) I don't need a parade to make BCD more cultural, it needs to be organic and mixed use, cross cultural, classless, inclusive, non political. We don't need EVENTS to make this area unique. Hamra is unique without any parade, I hope the same will happen in BCD

c) Solidere governs that area with a tight fist, so I do think they are to blame, and behind them is the Harriri family. They are only trying to do good, yes... but there are areas that they are not tuning into and thats what I am trying to highlight. so far, downtown is not for LIVING. and that could be the problem

b) Bottom line, there is not enough cohesion, and yes as I STATED BEFORE, this is because its an area dislocated from the rest of beirut for 40 years..... but there are certain efforts that Solidere can put forward to make this area more local friendly.

c) I think the new buildings downtown that have not been built and that have not been announced, especially in the reclaimed land will be Solidere's test. These buildings are new , Nothing has been there before. So the kind of buildings and environments that are created are completely up to solidere.

d) Gemmeyze was also not a very popular place....it was not a club district but with monot closing down and no restrictions as to what businesses could or could not be opened. Also Gemmeyze is probably ALLOT less expensive then downtown so... it allows for local business to infiltrate. And that shift or transition happened within a year or two! the are behind Samir Kassir garden is EMPTY, empty stores, empty streets.... there are pockets like this all over solidere, and the developed portion of solidere is Small, and my concern is just being voiced because I don't want the rest of Solidere to be like what we have now.

c) Beiruti... its not fair.... I am against hzb and march 8th BUT its not fair that we always pass the buck and blame someone else for something. This is what I am talking about in regards to expecting more and demanding it from the people in charge. Lets say it is because of March 8..... why don't you demand that solidere deal with it better? ....... Dude... I like you......but I'm kind of dissapointed in you as a MOD.

One way to look at it is..back in the 60s and 70s it was modern...this is a catch up to the current "modern". Wherever you go dwntwns have become more globalized..If there was no war i guarantee you dwntwn would have went dwn and ressurected like the rest of the world. There are periods of Boom and redevelopment. Unfortunatly we will never know what could have been...

You have to make the place attrcative for invesments. You cannot have the same type buildings and floorplans. Modern buildings and technologies are needed to provide mutinationals who invest and create jobs come.

I agree its still too soon to see. But i think we are witnessing an increase in residents, buisness's and Corporate headquarters. With continued development we will see the spririt ressurected. Right now its more a ghost town (well extreme word) because you dont have many inhabitants.

c) Beiruti... its not fair.... I am against hzb and march 8th BUT its not fair that we always pass the buck and blame someone else for something. This is what I am talking about in regards to expecting more and demanding it from the people in charge. Lets say it is because of March 8..... why don't you demand that solidere deal with it better? ....... Dude... I like you......but I'm kind of dissapointed in you as a MOD.

I am not passing the blame, I just think that too much blame was placed on Solidere and that is unfair. All Lebanese should take it upon themselves to revitalize downtown. Solidere can polish the cobble-stone streets but only the people can bring life to the streets.

I agree with you that events are not "organic" but you have to admit they are a step in the right direction and are an indication of Solidere's effort.

And why cant moderators have opinions as well?

One think that gets me and that shows that Solidere is cut from the rest of the city is that when you want to go to Place de l'etoile from the ESCWA, there are those blue walls from both sides of the road. It's like you're crossing borders.

euuuhh excuse me those are to protect the ESCWA building after it got attacked during the 2006 war hellooooooo

pppffff Hellooooooo how can you find it completely normal to have such things in your city's city center?? I don't.
And I suppose you find it normal to close streets in Qoreitem, Ain El Tineh, and Clemenceau to protect VIPs living there? I don't.

man of course i don't find it normal, but can u guarantee me that the 8th of march crowds wont attack that building again ?? :D

As for the streets where politicians live, definitely i'm against closing the streets for their sakes, but then again they control the whole country so it's normal that they control its streets too... sad but true

Don't forget we had many assasinations as well. Our politicians need to be protected!

:rofl: I prefer to not reply.

Back to Down town Beirut...

Because you can't back up any of your statements! :colgate:

Don't forget we had many assasinations as well. Our politicians need to be protected!

Ah.......im not answering to that one either, let me put it in a nice way and say none of the are "good"

I am not passing the blame, I just think that too much blame was placed on Solidere and that is unfair. All Lebanese should take it upon themselves to revitalize downtown. Solidere can polish the cobble-stone streets but only the people can bring life to the streets.

I agree with you that events are not "organic" but you have to admit they are a step in the right direction and are an indication of Solidere's effort.

And why cant moderators have opinions as well?

But its that exact reason of downtown being too polished that makes it look soo sterile. Downtown needs to be more lived in and we are back to the same argument, Solidere needs to loosen up, lighten security and allow local businesses so local ppl can go down.

I mean, tell me, how can the average leb revitalize downtown when you can't even cross from Nijmeh sq, to clemenceau with a camera. I am speaking from personal experience where I had my DSLR around my shoulder with the lens cap on not taking pics walking back home from a night at gemmeyze all the way to my house in clemenceau. EVERY NIGHT, AND DAY, I would get stopped and get talked down to... the first 3 or 4 times, by the 5 time I started talking back to them. 1) I didn't take pics, don't question me. 2) How is this part of my city when you make me feel privillaged to even walk on your f'n unpaved roads.

ANYWAYS...... I'm not bitter at all, can't you tell :P
But tell me what can I do as an average citizen? what do you have in mind?

AND.... moderators need to alter, or hide their opinions sometimes , or maybe word them better? ..... unfortunatly.... you are like a man on the job in this forum.... I mean, what differentiates you from me, is that I am free to say what I want..... and you're free to ban me if I'm out of line..... But if you have the same rights as I do... who governs you?

Its like being president, sleiman might have opinions about either party, or politicians but he can't express them because he represents the state or the authority and he sets an example..... I mean isnt that also the first rule when representing a company.... is that you don't express your opinions when representing them or when you are on the job?


In reply to the other forumers..... I think the politicians have enough protection.... lets count how many politicians have died in the past 5 yrs, and how many civilians have died because of those politicans..... I'm sorry but " Dam sha3be ghale" I will save a civilians life more than any current leb politician. We need to stop allying with politicians and start allying with ourselves.

^^ Thankfully SSC staff is not modeled after Lebanese government. In almost all countries, the President does have an opinion and is politically aligned. But I dont want to get into that. I am in no way the president of this forum. Moderators are allowed to express their thoughts and opinions. We are having a discussion, not a debate. If I wasnt an objective moderator I would be deleting people's posts left and right and banning users if I didnt agree with them. Clearly, I am not like that. If you violate the rules you get banned - simple as that - no matter what side you are on.

You can have an opinion and still be able to moderate objectively and effectively. That's what makes a good moderator.

I agree with alot of what lebnani had to say. Downtown was really nice to look at and walk through (since the chances of getting run over there were lower), but its all so artificial in a way. The souks that were once traditional, authentic marketplaces, are now replaced with ANOTHER high end shopping mall. Many of the restaurants are really expensive and not that good... Everything is so high end in downtown that the main reason why you see more khalijis then lebanese in DT is because they can actually afford it. The Grand Theater is now becoming a boutique hotel, wtf?! There needs to be art galleries, a real opera house, and multiple parks. Maybe even a nice bike trail. High end stores, "boutique hotels", and super expensive real estate is only creating a neighborhood that is exclusive and not inclusive. The reason why people love gemmayze is the mix of old houses and super hip bars/cafes where can find anything and everything to do (same with Hamra, although Hamra has its own charm). I might a lot of Lebanese people saying they just didnt bother going there since it was so expensive, and could find better things in their own neighborhood. Basically the way its headed, its becoming a tourist trap. Lebnani is right, it'd be great to have more local Lebanese chains there. I spoke to two Lebanese professors of mine who grew up before the civil war. They said the charm of Beirut was that downtown was a maze of old buildings and markets, and then you could travel 5 minutes to Hamra which was filled with high end stuff, so it made Beirut a mix of the old and new. What I liked about places such as Jbeil, Batroun, and Saida is that their old parts were well preserved and then you could go off to a great beach club and have fun. If Beirut's city center is just high end real estate, it would be a great loss.

there needs to be more municipal government participation, better bylaws and zoning laws. It doesn't seem like beirut has a very strong municipal govt, there needs to be protection of old houses. If They start touching houses in zqaq el blat I will be extremely upset.... loosing the old gemmeyze charm is really so beyond my imagination that if it does change I will be really extremely upset. I really want to move to Lebanon just so I can protest and chain myself to these buildings.

But think of this action in reflection Lebanese history.... we are soo self destructive and masochistic.... ITS LIKE A NATIONAL THEME. Civil wars, and now this ....

I wrote once in an essay that Beirut is compared to the phoenix, a bird of fire that lives destroys itself and is reborn....and this definitely beirut...but what we forget is that this is a "REBIRTH".... and not a "RESTORATION". The meaning of the land, the spaces, the buildings do not mean the same as they did with the old beirut. In my opinion... old Beirut is Dead... it will never be reclaimed... it lives as a myth... the best we can do is move on with the narrative, and give new birth and new definition to Beirut and its spaces. The land is shedding its old meaning, and its old residence, like a residue almost... this is what is happening with the changing demographics and classes of citizens. In 10 years or so the dust will settle and a new Beirut will be in its infancy ..... these buildings that we love so much will be nothing but vestiges and footprints of things lthat were... at best they might be viewed as novelty. There are few people that actually appreaciate this architecture, or such futile matters. Especially when you are speaking about a population that is often just meeting average income .... once they get their basic needs they might have time to pay attention to such aesthetic (and yet sadly equally fundamental) details of life.

But they didn't live the way Lebanese lived back then either.
For example Riyadh today has absolutely nothing to do with it used to be 15 years earlier, so just imagine it in the 60's.

No tents. Just stating a fact.

As for who lived better than who, that's a matter of personal opinion.

Here is an idea of what Kuwait looked like from the 20's - 70's, if you're interested:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=866146

Nice discussion, btw, and I agree that the BCD needs to be more "organic" and less sterile looking. But weren't places like Gemmayze less destroyed during the war? What would you propose be done to a completely destroyed Downtown?

Hello everyone,

I really don't understand what right do we all have to contemplate whether or not the reconstruction of the BCD, was negative towards the spirit that used to exist there.
People, we destroyed the old spirit! We are to blame for this, and we have to make the best of this new situation. The new BCD is beautiful, and yes I do agree it does have a fake or soulless feel to it, but it is brand new, IMO when the buildings age properly, and people get used to it, it will feel iconic. This was the only solution towards a completely destroyed city center. The only things we can argue about is the security restrictions near politician's homes. I think that should be reconsidered, along with the photography restrictions. And welcome to any Khaliji's coming! Tourism is thriving and we should enjoy it.

Hello everyone,

I really don't understand what right do we all have to contemplate whether or not the reconstruction of the BCD, was negative towards the spirit that used to exist there.
People, we destroyed the old spirit! We are to blame for this, and we have to make the best of this new situation. The new BCD is beautiful, and yes I do agree it does have a fake or soulless feel to it, but it is brand new, IMO when the buildings age properly, and people get used to it, it will feel iconic. This was the only solution towards a completely destroyed city center. The only things we can argue about is the security restrictions near politician's homes. I think that should be reconsidered, along with the photography restrictions. And welcome to any Khaliji's coming! Tourism is thriving and we should enjoy it.

I think when the taxes I pay, the debt my country is in is because of the 40 billion + debt caused by this restoration I think I have every right to complain as a citizen of this country. And the fact that I cant enjoy it with full freedom, and I am paying for it..... Complaining, and criticizing is the least I can do.

^^ Agreed, and with all that money they stole from people and put towards the redevelopment of downtown, the final product could of been much better. But at the same you have to be grateful to solidere becuase without them no one would of renovated downtown.

^^ Agreed, and with all that money they stole from people and put towards the redevelopment of downtown, the final product could of been much better. But at the same you have to be grateful to solidere becuase without them no one would of renovated downtown.


you forgot that hariri with his company solidere bought the whole DT this is not normal!!find a country where a minister can buy public space that big and the very central district of a capitol and make it private and gain the whole money with it!!!!
and beside that who can affor to open his company in DT(i mean the offices)?if more companies would have their headquearter in DT it would get crowded by people goin to their work in the morning and go back home in the after noon and more shops that arent expensive would also make the workers buy stuff their during their lunch hour

I think when the taxes I pay, the debt my country is in is because of the 40 billion + debt caused by this restoration I think I have every right to complain as a citizen of this country. And the fact that I cant enjoy it with full freedom, and I am paying for it..... Complaining, and criticizing is the least I can do.

first of all, solidere is not hariri property, it is a private company !!!
besides rafik hariri bought, as a businessman in the domain of real estate, 6% of the shares of the company !!! does that make him the owner ???

besides the 50 billion dollar debt didn't go to rebuilding beirut. Solidere, being a private establishment, financed the project from its own funds and capital like all real estate companies do.
Actually the leb state didn't take 50 billion dollar loans, the gigantic portion of this debt is due to interest that has been piling over the years, because the syrians (specifically lahoud) stopped all the economic reforms and projects that were supposed to be conducted by those money......that is aside the 7 billion $ lahoud ordered for the army which we didn't see anything from, and the 13 billion $ berri ordered for the power ministry and still there is no sufficient power in lebanon....mention those before u talk about Rafik Hariri !!

Hariri was trying to put the country on its feet. he, along with a huge team from the elite graduates from international business schools, put a reform plan that was praised by all economic institutions all around the world. and all countries trusted lebanon with this money to implement these reforms...but lahoud didn't like this and stopped all the reforms, this is when the debts started to pile on. Also the wars, which hariri tried so badly to stop despite that he had no part in starting it, we took money to make reforms, now we need more money to rebuild !!!! and then hariri gets blamed for everything !!

this is like when someone takes a loan from the bank to open a shop, then u come and burn down the shop, so this man needs to take another loan to rebuild his shop, then u come and burn it again and the man needs a third loan to rebuild, the u come and steal the money from the loan so he needs to take a 4th loan and so on .....with the interests piling up on his shoulders and when the man cannot take it anymore, withers and dies from all the debts, u blame him for everything and say that this is all his fault !!!!

^^ :applause:

first of all, solidere is not hariri property, it is a private company !!!
besides rafik hariri bought, as a businessman in the domain of real estate, 6% of the shares of the company !!! does that make him the owner ???

besides the 50 billion dollar debt didn't go to rebuilding beirut. Solidere, being a private establishment, financed the project from its own funds and capital like all real estate companies do.
Actually the leb state didn't take 50 billion dollar loans, the gigantic portion of this debt is due to interest that has been piling over the years, because the syrians (specifically lahoud) stopped all the economic reforms and projects that were supposed to be conducted by those money......that is aside the 7 billion $ lahoud ordered for the army which we didn't see anything from, and the 13 billion $ berri ordered for the power ministry and still there is no sufficient power in lebanon....mention those before u talk about Rafik Hariri !!

Hariri was trying to put the country on its feet. he, along with a huge team from the elite graduates from international business schools, put a reform plan that was praised by all economic institutions all around the world. and all countries trusted lebanon with this money to implement these reforms...but lahoud didn't like this and stopped all the reforms, this is when the debts started to pile on. Also the wars, which hariri tried so badly to stop despite that he had no part in starting it, we took money to make reforms, now we need more money to rebuild !!!! and then hariri gets blamed for everything !!

this is like when someone takes a loan from the bank to open a shop, then u come and burn down the shop, so this man needs to take another loan to rebuild his shop, then u come and burn it again and the man needs a third loan to rebuild, the u come and steal the money from the loan so he needs to take a 4th loan and so on .....with the interests piling up on his shoulders and when the man cannot take it anymore, withers and dies from all the debts, u blame him for everything and say that this is all his fault !!!!


hehe first of all take it easy... secondly u cant tell me he died having over 16bilion $ and they were all done by his business mind ok. we knw how he worked and how the money went for nothing. lebanons politicians are corrupt including hariri believe it or not. but also you have too compare the dept with what we have done in the 10 years 90-00 its nothing in comparison specially in a country like lebw here they loans arent high so u do gigantic projects that cost half the cost if you build them in europe or something. but anyway let solidere gove back st.georges his portion of the marina and then we can start talking about the gr8 work theyve done.

Looool Martyr khaye ba3dak 3am t3azib 7alak w te7ke ??? i believe you should follow my advice, quit all the discussions that deal with politics or politics-related issues, and stick to the construction and development projects, believe me you'd be doing yourself a huge favor, just like i did :banana:

Hariri had about 7-8 billion dollars not 16. he made his fortune in the gulf. Either way criticise him all you want, but he is definitly one of the better politicians that we've had. He had the balls to stand up to the Syrians, loosing his life in the process. Not to mention almost single handedly brought Beirut back from the ashes. So to all I say we need more corrupt politicians like Hariri!

Oh and Leb10452 you're welcome to have any political disussion on here, you've been missed!

first of all, solidere is not hariri property, it is a private company !!!
besides rafik hariri bought, as a businessman in the domain of real estate, 6% of the shares of the company !!! does that make him the owner ???

besides the 50 billion dollar debt didn't go to rebuilding beirut. Solidere, being a private establishment, financed the project from its own funds and capital like all real estate companies do.
Actually the leb state didn't take 50 billion dollar loans, the gigantic portion of this debt is due to interest that has been piling over the years, because the syrians (specifically lahoud) stopped all the economic reforms and projects that were supposed to be conducted by those money......that is aside the 7 billion $ lahoud ordered for the army which we didn't see anything from, and the 13 billion $ berri ordered for the power ministry and still there is no sufficient power in lebanon....mention those before u talk about Rafik Hariri !!

Hariri was trying to put the country on its feet. he, along with a huge team from the elite graduates from international business schools, put a reform plan that was praised by all economic institutions all around the world. and all countries trusted lebanon with this money to implement these reforms...but lahoud didn't like this and stopped all the reforms, this is when the debts started to pile on. Also the wars, which hariri tried so badly to stop despite that he had no part in starting it, we took money to make reforms, now we need more money to rebuild !!!! and then hariri gets blamed for everything !!

this is like when someone takes a loan from the bank to open a shop, then u come and burn down the shop, so this man needs to take another loan to rebuild his shop, then u come and burn it again and the man needs a third loan to rebuild, the u come and steal the money from the loan so he needs to take a 4th loan and so on .....with the interests piling up on his shoulders and when the man cannot take it anymore, withers and dies from all the debts, u blame him for everything and say that this is all his fault !!!!

Thank you.

Melkart bro, on the one hand it seems like some people hate the truth around here, so they would say anything to contradict it even if they knew they were wrong, they would try to make a point just to prove you wrong which is very childish if you ask me. On the other hand, some others think it's ok for them to say anything, and disrespect anyone, and when you say something they don't like they all turn into peace pigeons lecturing you about their noble principles of respect, justice, equality, and LOVE ... So it's really funnier watching this happen, but not taking part in it... :cheers:

Dude seriously you guys, you should know what your talking about before getting the words out!

Our debt is from the INFRASTRUCTURE rebuilt after the war, meaning highways, airport... (stuff Lebanon NEEDS before thinking about any kind of growth)

When Hariri came back to Lebanon, way before he got into politics, he already established his fortune. and i get amazed how ppl ignore this fact just to make hasty judgments!

Again, please if anyone can think off a better FEASIBLE way in reconstructing downtown, then please enlighten us :)

Melkart bro, on the one hand it seems like some people hate the truth around here, so they would say anything to contradict it even if they knew they were wrong, they would try to make a point just to prove you wrong which is very childish if you ask me. On the other hand, some others think it's ok for them to say anything, and disrespect anyone, and when you say something they don't like they all turn into peace pigeons lecturing you about their noble principles of respect, justice, equality, and LOVE ... So it's really funnier watching this happen, but not taking part in it... :cheers:


hehe just so dont get me wrong i disrespect almost every politician because you just see how they work in lebanon but see how the politicians work in other countries they do much greater than hariri did and nobody says thank you because thats simply their job they HAVE to build the country and solve its problems so to me hariri did simply his job with also doing mistakes so he and the others and the other party i dont care about them and dont take such discussion personal because its nothing against you. that democracy you tell me your opinion as well as i tell you mine.

Again about DT i stick to placing more companies in the buildings so that it gets corwded with people their doing their work in their offices so you always see the restairants crowded during dinner time. Beirout souks has also a better mix because it has also lower budget stores like H&M or Zara for normal Budget and in DT thats not the case really.

Just let me ask you about the restaurants...do you guys think its ok to have the main street with the cafes and other places like the area behind nahar(guess something like bobs is located there) left almost empty?
it would be much nicer if there was more areas full of restaurants like the street where costa is.

^^ When a waiter works his ass off and brings you your plate at a restaurant do you not "thank" him, because he's actually just doing his job? Or does democracy states you being rude?!
(just though of giving you a small example)

I can't stand DT restaurants! It's like you're eating diamonds, the waiters are unfriendly, and tables are too close bein ba3d. I prefer ABC Achrafieh.

Also I don't like how you have to cross to Ma3rad street to feel you're in the city. The area before Maarad (ex: Riya El Solh) is more like a ghost city.

There should be more attractions in Saifi, and there should be a connection between Saifi and West DT, but that will be done once Martyr's square is built again.

first of all, solidere is not hariri property, it is a private company !!!
besides rafik hariri bought, as a businessman in the domain of real estate, 6% of the shares of the company !!! does that make him the owner ???

besides the 50 billion dollar debt didn't go to rebuilding beirut. Solidere, being a private establishment, financed the project from its own funds and capital like all real estate companies do.
Actually the leb state didn't take 50 billion dollar loans, the gigantic portion of this debt is due to interest that has been piling over the years, because the syrians (specifically lahoud) stopped all the economic reforms and projects that were supposed to be conducted by those money......that is aside the 7 billion $ lahoud ordered for the army which we didn't see anything from, and the 13 billion $ berri ordered for the power ministry and still there is no sufficient power in lebanon....mention those before u talk about Rafik Hariri !!

Hariri was trying to put the country on its feet. he, along with a huge team from the elite graduates from international business schools, put a reform plan that was praised by all economic institutions all around the world. and all countries trusted lebanon with this money to implement these reforms...but lahoud didn't like this and stopped all the reforms, this is when the debts started to pile on. Also the wars, which hariri tried so badly to stop despite that he had no part in starting it, we took money to make reforms, now we need more money to rebuild !!!! and then hariri gets blamed for everything !!

this is like when someone takes a loan from the bank to open a shop, then u come and burn down the shop, so this man needs to take another loan to rebuild his shop, then u come and burn it again and the man needs a third loan to rebuild, the u come and steal the money from the loan so he needs to take a 4th loan and so on .....with the interests piling up on his shoulders and when the man cannot take it anymore, withers and dies from all the debts, u blame him for everything and say that this is all his fault !!!!

Excellent post. Not to mention the philanthropic work he did such as the student loans he gave to Lebanese so that they'd be able to get a college education. My cousin's husband got his education this way.

hehehe Man you got me wrong, i wasn't talking about you in any way, you're free to talk about any politician the way you like, it's not as if any of them is my dad or anything hehe , i was talking about something else ... Cheers mate :D:cheers:

hehehe Man you got me wrong, i wasn't talking about you in any way, you're free to talk about any politician the way you like, it's not as if any of them is my dad or anything hehe , i was talking about something else ... Cheers mate :D:cheers:


;)

^^ When a waiter works his ass off and brings you your plate at a restaurant do you not "thank" him, because he's actually just doing his job? Or does democracy states you being rude?!
(just though of giving you a small example)


hehe mbala bas mabel7as tizo and make him a hero

^^ :applause:

Thank you.

Excellent post. .

Thank you all !! :)

I will just be happy if that area is always brimming with foot traffic all year long. At this point this is all I want. ALLOT OF FOOT TRAFFIC!!

hey guys, tomorrow remember to watch Kalam El-Nas...the episode is about the reconstruction of DownTown, the new spirit of the area, Beirut Before & After, and that sort of stuff, i still dont know who the guests are, i hope their is someone from Solidere...
So shakla 7al2a 7ilwe :) !!!

Damn,i finish work at 11 pm today :(

hey guys, tomorrow remember to watch Kalam El-Nas...the episode is about the reconstruction of DownTown, the new spirit of the area, Beirut Before & After, and that sort of stuff, i still dont know who the guests are, i hope their is someone from Solidere...
So shakla 7al2a 7ilwe :) !!!

Im defiantly going to see it, it should be an interesting episode

Downtown Beirut is one of the reasons I'd ever move back to Beirut :), the vibes, the scenerio, all so lovely.

Downtown beirut is def not a reason to move back, as it stands, dt is 3 or 4 streets of development and thats it... in the future I imagine it to be potentially something, but I wouldnt move back for it.

I'd move back for Hamra, Mar Elias, or ANYWHERE in Achrafiyeh.

My aunts got "actions" (ashom) at the stock exchange, but of course it's not worth what they owned in old Centre Ville...

BUT, as you said, we owe solidere that glow.

well my brother in-law's father had a building in downtown too and no1 forced him to sell it because he had the money to renovate it after the war, but if i were in solidere's shoes i would force any1 who cannot afford to renovate their buildings to sell them, i mean just because some people own destroyed properties it doesn't mean that they can keep them destroyed forever and prevent a whole renovation plan for the entire area .... but then again that's just my opinion

Leb10452km: Solidere's plan was not a renovation plan! It was never meant to be a renovation, it was only advertised as such.

As YoungModeler and Leb.fr said, Solidere has a very dark side, and its plans go back to 1983 under the CDR's guidance, but once Harriri emerged he consolidated the plans of the CDR and formed solidere. Also, the biggest issue in the first parliamentary elections in lebanon was the reconstruction of downtown, and it just so happens that everyone who was elected was a major share holder and council member of Solidere, and anyone who was opposed was weeded out.

And there are more stories, if you analyze their publicity material its full of double speech making their plans impossible to understand, everything remains unclear until it is actualized. And there is heavy Spin of how this is a restoration,and the center of Lebanese society, when we know that you only go downtown to have some overpriced argileh.

Solidere's history is very dark and I wish I didn't know the things I know because I can't walk in downtown without sensing extreme sadness, loss and anger, and especially a sense of being robbed.

If anyone wants to read some creadible academic sources on the reconstruction and the history of Solidere, or the greater movement to Liberalize space ( sanitze space from meaning hapening not only in beirut but other cities as well) I can gladly direct you to sources.

Its sad that we consider this stuffed corpse as the center of our city and business. Its a lie, truly.

Also guys I hope this is clear and if not it should be made clear. The key argument against solidere that should concern us has nothing to do with national heritage, or property ownership... or preserving the architectural stamp of the neighbourhoods. These are MAJOR concerns, but these are all secondary to an even more important cause.

The primary problem that Solidere has created is that instead of allowing the center to germinate naturally as it had been, Meaning: a place of meeting, a center where people from all walks of life and especially all religions mixed. They have completely put aside making a space for us... the true victims of the civil to reconcile, and have instead opted to take our reconciliation space and instead have built a mall in its place, a life size representation of what was Beirut.

When we speak of Lebanon's pre-civil war communal living, we are by in large talking about downtown. And Solidere has opted to isolate the segregated residents of Beirut, and not give them a place to meet. Unfortunately, the green line still exists, and the sectarian enclaves have solidified and do not allow people from either sect to permeate the neighborhoods; A Muslim wont have purpose to go to Sodeco, and a christian won't necessarily go to west beirut... But they would have both found purpose to meet downtown. Unfortunately both parties cannot access downtown for various economic and Socio- political reason.

This is the true loss that the Lebanese citizen has encountered, not only have we suffered the majority of pain and violence of the civil war. but no one has cared to tend to our wounds or to seek justice.

And this is why Solidere, and more specifically, OUR politicians are disgusting

I will stop here, because unfortunately to continue this discussion we must venture into a discussion of politics.

^^ Very genuine argument, the downtown area has become a jungle for khalegis, not for Lebanese.

My aunts got "actions" (ashom) at the stock exchange, but of course it's not worth what they owned in old Centre Ville...

BUT, as you said, we owe solidere that glow.

an idiot with $50 billion could have done better job restoring downtown, Solidere is the reason why ur and my not- yet -born children are under dept.

The point is, we owe them none.

^^ no, that is not even remotely the reason behind lebanon's depts....

care to elaborate?

sara7a ma2ili 5ili2 27ki.... i have a post around here somewhere, i'll see if i can find it again...

@ Lebnani:Exactly, we have been robbed the esence of the city injustfuly, only to create profits for the shareholders and to further enlarge the investment being put into the real-estate district of our city to an extent that a Beiruti cannot afford to live in Beirut anymore and it is becoming a city belonging to the rich on a very fast pace..

I say that the direct consequence of the unsupervised investment in the real-estate sector that Solidere primarily caused, is that the city is becoming too expensive for its own inhabitants. Believe me there will come a time that Beirut will be considered the city of the wealthy and this is all because Solidere, as Lebnani said, does not care for the citizens, the true middle-class, citizens of Beirut who are its true esence.

I dont see why EVERY part of Beirut should be eventually face-lifted (Im talking long term) because in my opinion this is what Solidere is looking for, a city that they own entirely, and a city that they forced its people to sell below the market price in the name of "civilization" and "modernizm" and essentially steal the city from its residents, hotel owners, shop owners... It is just a shame that the new found "glow" of our city is based on a complete and utter crime, a crime of bullying the ORIGINAL owners of the city to make a quick buck.

i think this is it...

first of all, solidere is not hariri property, it is a private company !!!
besides rafik hariri bought, as a businessman in the domain of real estate, 6% of the shares of the company !!! does that make him the owner ???

besides the 50 billion dollar debt didn't go to rebuilding beirut. Solidere, being a private establishment, financed the project from its own funds and capital like all real estate companies do.
Actually the leb state didn't take 50 billion dollar loans, the gigantic portion of this debt is due to interest that has been piling over the years, because the syrians (specifically lahoud) stopped all the economic reforms and projects that were supposed to be conducted by those money......that is aside the 7 billion $ lahoud ordered for the army which we didn't see anything from, and the 13 billion $ berri ordered for the power ministry and still there is no sufficient power in lebanon....mention those before u talk about Rafik Hariri !!

Hariri was trying to put the country on its feet. he, along with a huge team from the elite graduates from international business schools, put a reform plan that was praised by all economic institutions all around the world. and all countries trusted lebanon with this money to implement these reforms...but lahoud didn't like this and stopped all the reforms, this is when the debts started to pile on. Also the wars, which hariri tried so badly to stop despite that he had no part in starting it, we took money to make reforms, now we need more money to rebuild !!!! and then hariri gets blamed for everything !!

this is like when someone takes a loan from the bank to open a shop, then u come and burn down the shop, so this man needs to take another loan to rebuild his shop, then u come and burn it again and the man needs a third loan to rebuild, the u come and steal the money from the loan so he needs to take a 4th loan and so on .....with the interests piling up on his shoulders and when the man cannot take it anymore, withers and dies from all the debts, u blame him for everything and say that this is all his fault !!!!

Please lol Hariri is as corrupted as Lahoud is, for all I care is that Solidere is the new authority down there, no photography? why? because solidere said so, even the name of beirut has changed to solidere.. stop defending thiefs.. that is YOUR city we are talking about ..

EDIT: and no matter what pretexts they use, the fact is still a fact,Hariri is dead, Lahoud is gone and we are all under debt.

also.... Saida is Martyr's city :P

I know what you mean, its the Lebanese's city

if saida is my city, then i dont get a say in this....

and dont u even dare to compare Rafik Hariri with Emile Lahoud.... shu jeb la jeb ?!?!?!

and i wasn't talking about DT or photorgraphy restrictions or the new "spirit"... my comment was solely about the dept....

if saida is my city, then i dont get a say in this....
ma t2elle 3emlo joumhuriyet saida l sha3biye w ana mesh 3erfe :tongue2:

Beirut is for us all, at least that what it used to be...

and dont u even dare to compare Rafik Hariri with Emile Lahoud.... shu jeb la jeb ?!?!?!

and i wasn't talking about DT or photorgraphy restrictions or the new "spirit"... my comment was solely about the dept....


eh w bel niheye shou tele3 ma3ak? Look I couldn't care less iza 7mar hindi behind the debt, the point is inno technically we are screwed.

Plus, I didnt live the civil war, nor did you..all I know is that Beirut is my city and I have the right to photograph every single inch of it! Just because some believe that solidere is Beirut's Messiah ..it doesnt give it the right to act as state within the state..;)

PS: man.. you are young and educated ..Hariri manno alla,he was in charge and made a fortune out of it. this is a fact whether you dare to admit or not.

if saida is my city, then i dont get a say in this....

be my guest you have as much say as we do... ya3neh ma she! LOL

and dont u even dare to compare Rafik Hariri with Emile Lahoud.... shu jeb la jeb ?!?!?!

Now, while I think Harriri was the lesser of Evils, I don't think he was innocent. I think you are being naive about Solidere, you forget that Harriri was in construction before he was in politics.

Here is a summary of Beirut's reconstruction plan from Saree Makdisi's analysis "Laying Claim to Beirut: Urban Narrative and Spatial Identity in the Age of Solidere"

- 1977, the first official master plan commissioned by the Council for Development and Reconstruction (CDR) to rebuild the city center along the lines of its traditional layout to restore its centrality in the life of Beirut, and to improve its infrastructure. Particular emphasis was placed, however on the need to reintegrate the center in both class and sectarian terms and on the need to ensure the reintegration of the center into the rest of the city's urban fabric. Before the war, the downtown had served not only as a commercial and cultural center but also as a transport hub. the 1977 plan highlighted a desire to remold the center of Beirut into a meeting placef or the various communities, while at the same time bearing in mind the need to "modernize the center in an attempt to solve the problems of functioning and access faced before the war, while maintaining the specific image of its site, history and Mediterranean and 'oriental character.

- In 1983, OGER Liban the private engineering firm owned by Rafiq Hariri, took over the reconstruction project and commissioned a masterplan from the Dar al- Handasah.

- In 1983, and in the absence of a new official plan, demolition began in the central area on the pretext of cleaning up some of the damage. This" cleaning up"whose perpetrators remain officially unidentified (though it has been repeatedly alleged that they stand behind today's reconstruction project (OGER LIBAN and Solidere)), involved the destruction of some of the district's most significant surviving buildings and structures as well as Souk Al-Nouriyeh and Souk Sursuq and large sections of Saifi without recourse to official institutions on what critics argue were false pretenses, and in total disregard of the then-existing (1977) plan for reconstruction, which had specifically called for the rehabilitation of those areas of the city center.

- In 1986, further unofficial demolition was carried out in the downtown area the same parties that had been behind the 1983 demolitions allegedly began implementing a plan (bearing some distant resemblance to the current Solidere proposals) That called for the destruction of a large proportion up to 80 percent of the remaining structures of the city center According to critics this was carried out without the authorization or approval or interference of any official or governmental institution.

- 1990, after the end of the Civil war, Solidere was officially created. First of all, Fadele l-Shalaq the head of Hariri's OGER Liban, was appointed as the head of CDR.
In effect what this has meant is that the main private organization in the building industry has taken over the official planning advisory body. The agency that the government used to control private development has now reversed its role." In deed, this development marked only the beginning of the state's abdication of its authority and any direct role it might have played in the reconstruction of central Beirut, and the beginning of a political-economic discourse we might identify as Harirism which would culminate in 1992 when Rafiq Hariri himself became prime minister of Lebanon.

- 1991, a new set of master plans for the reconstruction of central Beirut was released by Dar al-Handasah (the consultancy firm that had been first commissioned by OGER Liban in 1983).These plans, which had been drawn up by the Dara l-Handasa architect Henri Edde, called for, which was unanimously denounced as an outrageous rebuilding project to follow the virtually total demolition of whatever structures remained in the city center. Edde's plan included such features as the creation of an artificial island to house a "world trade center" and an eighty-meter-wide boulevard rivaling the Champs-Elyse (which is 60 meters wide), as well as a street layout, including overpasses, bearing no resemblance to either what had been there before or to the urban grain of the rest of Beirut. In the face of a huge public outcry the CDR and Dara l-Handasah were forced to scrap he scheme, and they set to work on a new master plan.

- In 1992, while in the midst of parliamentary elections, the government passed a series of laws enabling the creation of Solidere whose articles of incorporation were approved in July of that year. One of the last acts of the previous government (shortly after the elections and before it resigned and was replaced by the Hariri cabinet) in fact,was the formal approval of Dar al-Handasah's brand new master plan on 14 October 1992. Thus in an atmosphere of national anxiety and concern with the outcome of the September elections, and with no public participation in decision making the future of the heart of Beirut was decided, long before any (official) investments had been made in it. Demolition was resumed in 1994 and, by the end of that year much of the center of the city had been razed.

PS: man.. you are young and educated ..Hariri manno alla,he was in charge and made a fortune out of it. this is a fact whether you dare to admit or not.

AMEN!!!

oh god,this is not the anti-Solidere/Hariri propaganda all over again,is it?

I hate the politics, I don't care about the people involved in it, but I know for a fact that all of downtown would still be in shambles if the expropriation did not occur. I am enraged about the way the history unearthed during the reconstruction was disposed of, I am frustrated by the loss of the feeling and charm the place used to have before the war, but one thing is for sure, this gateway to the twenty-first century is the closest thing we have to a modern city. And for a country with our recent history, I must say that we should be proud that we got up so fast. It just wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Solidere. It took Berlin and Paris countless decades to rebuilt following WWII and the technology that was used to destroy was primitive compared to what we went through. For almost two decades, it didn't stop and most of us here where mere babies or not even born in the heat of the action, but it gives me pride today to look back at when my Grand father first took me to downtown in 1996 and told me that one day when I would be older all of it would be rebuilt. I was 10 and I remember clearly what was in front of me : an open space as far as I could see, a huge plot of land that was littered with historical crevasses and a couple of buldozers leveling the land. It was when I went back in 2009 and took the time to stroll down the streets of Downtown Beirut that I remembered what he told me and why I had this passion for this city that I spent almost all my life away from. I believe that overall that positive aspects that came out and will come out of Solidere will outweight the negative aspects of it.

If you are talking economically.. maybe. Socially, not even a chance. We will not see this area actually incorporated into the rest of Beirut. I think it needs a good 30 to 40 years to develop any sort of inclusive character.... this is if Lebanese society isnt more polarized and more economically disenfranchised.

Furthermore the reconstructions in Paris and Berlin were properly executed. The first step to reconstruction is social healing. And reconstruction needs to happen naturally in consideration of the rest of the city. Solidere is not a city by itself.

However this is not a reconstruction. The continuous use of the prefix -" re " (reconstruction, restoration, revival, resurrection) is not accurate and is part of the Double speech rhetoric used employed by Solidere to signify the natural progression of Old Beirut, to Soliere's constructed vision.

I personally don't view Solidere as an area that holds any heritage or authenticity. Meaning, I view the entirety of Solidere, from Saifi to Wadi abu Jmeil to St George as a new Area, not as something that existed, nor as the historic part of my city. Nijmeh square might as well be part of the reclaimed land. It's character was constructed, not reconstructed. Non of our families have any connection to roman baths. Our heritage revolves around the 3entebli fountain, Khan anton bey, The Rivoli, This is what we should be sad about. Things we were capable of restoring but decided to destroy in favour of a shopping mall.

Look, I simply wait for this area to eventually be integrated into the social fabric of Beirut, which again depending on how politics and economics go, that may never happen.

I am not angry that there exists something called Solidere, but in the decisions made to destroy areas that did not need destroying simply for the purpose of capital investment.

This is what I am mostly upset about, in order of importance:
1- The private. commercial utilization of post war reconciliation space.
2- The Double speech used to disqualify history and legitimize Solidere's agenda.
3- The Gentrification of Beirut
4 -The erasure of the boundaries between private interest, and public rights; example photo restrictions.

Harriri is to thank for restoring world confidence that Lebanon is a viable country. But when it comes down to the internal politics, I can't help but feel its failed. Again, why are the concerns of the average Lebanese put aside for international interests and alliance?

I would like to see where Beirut would be now without Solidere! I am sure alot of mistakes were done and we can always do better than what we've got. But at the end what other alternatives did we have, and could they have been achieved without solidere?

You are not reading my argument at all, or not correctly at least. It is not the institution, it is the plan that I have a problem with. I would have liked to see the original 1977 plan be discussed.

According to the different sources that I have read, the one consistent fact that has come across is that there was a series of buildings torn down - the souks, khan anton bey parts of saifi that were mysteriously cleaned up without any regard to the approved master plan. What is being suggested is that there were forces in play to stop the rehabilitation of the BCD. The one consistent feature that is recurrent in all the Harriri masterplans is the complete cleansing of the area of any buildings that existed.

And so what we have is the silencing of the public via the removal of government intervention, and the prioritization of Solidere's private interest. And this is why we have no say in what happens in our own city.

But that is beyond the point. The point is, there were other alternatives that did not suite the individuals who would come to create Solidere. And while the privatization of public space is upsetting, the disregard of the private space for the people inhabiting that space is even more upsetting.

Ana bil3eh kteer 3al fade. Enno really, am I the only one that sees how multilayered this problem is , or is it just a matter of things looking nice that is most important??

You are not reading my argument at all, or not correctly at least. It is not the institution, it is the plan that I have a problem with. I would have liked to see the original 1977 plan be discussed.

According to the different sources that I have read, the one consistent fact that has come across is that there was a series of buildings torn down - the souks, khan anton bey parts of saifi that were mysteriously cleaned up without any regard to the approved master plan. What is being suggested is that there were forces in play to stop the rehabilitation of the BCD. The one consistent feature that is recurrent in all the Harriri masterplans is the complete cleansing of the area of any buildings that existed.

And so what we have is the silencing of the public via the removal of government intervention, and the prioritization of Solidere's private interest. And this is why we have no say in what happens in our own city.

But that is beyond the point. The point is, there were other alternatives that did not suite the individuals who would come to create Solidere. And while the privatization of public space is upsetting, the disregard of the private space for the people inhabiting that space is even more upsetting.

I apologize I kind of skimmed through the posts and commented without fully comprehending the content. I guess I should be more patient. or maybe just get back to work and stop posting on here! :nuts:

The bay is called the st george bay, not the area, the area is ain el mraisseh, east of the the st george is the zeitouni area. (not including the reclaimed land)

I am over-reacting you are right, but this has become a tendency of mine when it comes to anything solidere related. While I appreaciate the effort they are making, part of me is bitter about their continuous activity to render beirut lifeless.

My reaction was to their concept of memorializing everything without any significance to the public. Enno the area still exists, it doesn't need to be killed. Bas tabe3 el manta2a that was el zeitouneh was erased by Solidere...so I just think its funny this idea of memorializing something they assisted in destroying, or changing. Its like they have run out of old ruins to unearth and are making new ruins or testaments of past history to add to their list.

Don't kid yourself, Tabe3 el manta2a was destroyed by the lebanese people who destroyed the whole area; Not Solidere.

^^ yes solidere only reassured the area would never return again, no crime done at all eh ? -.-

Don't kid yourself, Tabe3 el manta2a was destroyed by the lebanese people who destroyed the whole area; Not Solidere.

Lol, 7abibeh, not only am I from beirut, I've heard all the stories from my grandfather who frequented downtown after the war, as well as heard many first hand witness reports about what was and wasn't intact after the war and restorable. Not to mention I've written my thesis on this very topic.

But yes you are right, Lebanese people did destroy it, those behind Solidere after all are Lebanese. And it was selfish, and destructive, a few made a fortune out of it, and all are excluded and left to watch. You see, its the very product of Civil war and selfish Mercantile Lebanese nature.

so all u anti-solidere guys over here,what's your plan for Beirut?? i mean,if u were solidere,what would you have done?

Hassoun, Go read my other posts Ma7 daye3 wa2eth 2e23od eshra7 el mishkleh marra tenyeh. Ba3den this question is off topic to this thread.

Also, I don't understand where you people get the nerve to argue about something you have not studied, neither theoretically, nor historically. Enno 3anjad, you are brave heik 3al 3emyeneh betfootoh be arguments.

If you guys actually cared or really respected this area and this argument you would actually do your research. Bas no one loves this area like I do and the people who are fighting for this cause, as well as the preservation of greater ottoman beirut. I know one thing, if you care about something you invest yourself in getting to know the truth. I don't think you march 14, Harriri, Solidere lovers actually delve into the core of these arguments.

I've already said too much here. If anyone wants to reply to me, out of respect for Beiruti and Nadini, please do so in this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=990453&page=6).

OK

So,here's the question again,

so all u anti-solidere guys over here,what's your plan for Beirut?? i mean,if u were solidere,what would you have done?

Hassoun, Go read my other posts Ma7 daye3 wa2eth 2e23od eshra7 el mishkleh marra tenyeh. Ba3den this question is off topic to this thread.

Also, I don't understand where you people get the nerve to argue about something you have not studied, neither theoretically, nor historically. Enno 3anjad, you are brave heik 3al 3emyeneh betfootoh be arguments.

If you guys actually cared or really respected this area and this argument you would actually do your research. Bas no one loves this area like I do and the people who are fighting for this cause, as well as the preservation of greater ottoman beirut. I know one thing, if you care about something you invest yourself in getting to know the truth. I don't think you march 14, Harriri, Solidere lovers actually delve into the core of these arguments.

I've already said too much here. If anyone wants to reply to me, out of respect for Beiruti and Nadini, please do so in this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=990453&page=6).

You are way too full of yourself.

You don't even know me! You haven't even been following the discussion I've been having with everyone for the past two months.

and If being passionately educated about a topic is being full of myself then that is something I am proud of.

Also, If you are looking to make some unsupported comment and log off that's fine, but everyone in this forum will attest I debate an argument to the bone with sources. It is nothing personal, it just comes down to simple facts. And Beirut is one of those arguments that is very intimate to me

Look, Call me whatever you like... I don't care.

i do agree with lebnani in some points solidere did commit a crime against our national heritage.it displaced the old mercantile community out of the historic center for good and is changing the character of beirut beyond recognition.
BUT i think that wouldve happened anyway. any greedy developper wdve done just the same but solidere is a culprit with aesthetic taste.. lets imagine a couple of scenarios
1- the civil war never happened.. i think dt wdve become a delabrated dying city center and it's buildings wdve been doomed to fall apart and decay slowly.
2- no solidere... i dont even want to imagine the result [my guess is tabula rasa] not to forget the manhattan-like plan that was drawn for beirut before a grp of intellectuals saved us from losing what was left from our history.
a while ago my parents visited the beirut souks (they both worked as clercks in the dt area inthe late 60's early 70's.) they were impressed and did not lament the destruction of the old souks or as my mom puts it "bina khantarish". I dont blame solidere either for razing away the souks , they wd not be profitable anyway
Bottomline, with all the destruction , beirut still maintains more character than many arab capitals ive seen (namely amman , boy are they jealous!!!) but something must be urgently done to preserve what is left from the ottoman era in ashrafieh and zokak l blat, it hurts me to see the old palaces falling apart . Finally i wish that dt returns as a meeting place for LEBANESE AND ABOVE ALL LEBANESE from all social categories, this shall be solideres way to make amends for what it has done .

Hassoun first of all, your question is demonstrating that you have either not read or understood my argument. I am not against Solidere as an institution, or Solidere as company that is managing downtown. What I am against are the decisions made to destroy vast areas in the name of capitalism. Meaning, Solidere should have bought the area to manage its reconstruction, not bought it to use it as a cash cow.

But to respond to your question Hassoun I don't have to look far at all! I only have to look down the coast to Saida. You surely have visited the old city. Almost all of the land claims remain the same, the residents are the same, the character of the city is still intact, yet it is completely renovated.

Grant it, there wasn't battle in Saida's old quarter, but that is an example of a non malicious and true reconstruction plan that takes into consideration the utility and purpose of that space for its residents. Is it profitable? Is it functional! I would argue yes it is. I went 3 times to saida and spent the entire day in just the old quarter, and Saida will always be on my list of places to go because of the renovated old quarter. This is not to mention the multiple tour buses and foreigners I saw walking in the souk buying from the authentic local vendors, Locals, not international brands.

If Solidere's intentions were to truly restore Beirut's old district, it would have done so without putting capitalism and profiteering as its first priority. Its interests should have been to first rejuvenate the area (as outlined in the 1977 masterplan). Properly remove buildings that have already been destroyed, or that are near collapse and foster proper construction of new buildings, may it be low or highrise.

Furthermore, although I love the old Avenue des Français, I would still support the building of the western marina as well as the reclaimed land. Putting Khan Anton Bey at the entrance of the reclaimed land. That building would have been repurposed and used to tie in the old part of Beirut with the new modern Highrise district.

I think the souks are essential to the character of Beirut, and I would have like to see them cleaned up. From the pictures that I saw, there was not extensive damage to the buildings, that area was not bombed and was only witness to man on man combat not heavy artillery shelling.

*Keep in mind this would be done with solidere still managing downtown as it would today, however with different priorites*

The two buildings flanking Martyr's square ( next to the old opera house, and similar on the east side) would be preserved since they were still standing, the south west corner of the square would be cleared as that building had already collapsed. The rivoli would also be preserved.

Souk el 3moomeh I would argue should have been cleared because of its old construction. According to my grandfather it was a souk just for brothels and prostitutes. The buildings were mostly wooden and not constructed from stone. I wish Kheireddine would confirm this. But assuming this is the case, that area could also be redeveloped.

Another priority should be to encourage local Lebanese entrepreneurship in downtown. The aim would be to rejuvinate the area for the residents of Beirut, as well as slowly integrate new infrastructure that would allow for modern businesses to grow.

What I am arguing is that there could have been more preservation done and an aim to integrate the local population with a new international district for business.

Again, the singular point that no one has come to negotiate with me is how do you justify the private profiting out of public space.

- Understand that what happened in the early 90's was the drafting of a series of laws that renounced the governments role in rehabilitating downtown to Solidere, as Solidere's owners were elected into the government and placed as the heads of such institutions as the CDR. Also, in those laws it was agreed that the gov't would pay for infrastructure rehabilitation of roads and deny itself any profit for the first 10 years. So essentially you could be on the board of solidere, and in gov't, approve solidere's proposals, use government money to assist solidere, and then the profits to solidere go into your pocket as an investor in solidere as opposed to the government. Its a very smart tactic.

I think instead of asking what we should have done, the better question is, How and why did this become our only option?

I stress this last point because this is the trend that is happening all over Beirut, we are selling our public interest for private profit. What we have silently allowed solidere to do has been taken as consent to do the same to the rest of the city.

i do agree with lebnani in some points solidere did commit a crime against our national heritage.it displaced the old mercantile community out of the historic center for good and is changing the character of beirut beyond recognition. BUT i think that wouldve happened anyway. any greedy developper wdve done just the same but solidere is a culprit with aesthetic taste..

When I said it was a product of mercantilism, I was referring to our national heritage that solidere is whoring of to foreign investors to buy; like a merchant would (Ya3ne 3am be tejro be torathna). Bas how can you sell something that you have killed and taxidermied. They are selling a heritage that we have constructed, and then excluded from, sanitized and then re branded by them, and it remains excluding us from that heritage as well as from access to these areas even after they are constructed.

But you are right, Solidere has aesthetic tastes. They are masters at reproducing aesthetically what was there authentically. But aesthetics without true meaning is hollow. Which is why downtown looks like Disney land. The Image doesn't hold up.


1- the civil war never happened.. i think dt wdve become a delabrated dying city center and it's buildings wdve been doomed to fall apart and decay slowly.
The structure of Beirut was different from now, and DT was not a niche market, but one that everyone used. DT was where you went to buy groceries and things you needed, there werent shops near houses. It was all central, I don't think it would have died out. Actually one of the problems that was faced in pre civil war downtown was the fact that it was over crowded and the city didn't know how to circumvent traffic.

However if we go with your scenario and DT indeed was dying, I think I would have preferred a natural re purposing of the area which I am sure would have happened. As we have seen happen naturally with both Monot and Gemmeyze where those areas were re purposed naturally by market trends.


2- no solidere... i dont even want to imagine the result [my guess is tabula rasa] not to forget the manhattan-like plan that was drawn for beirut before a grp of intellectuals saved us from losing what was left from our history.
a while ago my parents visited the beirut souks (they both worked as clercks in the dt area inthe late 60's early 70's.) they were impressed and did not lament the destruction of the old souks or as my mom puts it "bina khantarish". I dont blame solidere either for razing away the souks , they wd not be profitable anyway

Tabula Rasa? .... what do you think downtown is now? You think it has retained any knowledge of its past? I strongly disagree with you here. The entire post war discourse from Film to literature to architecture is how Beirut has become a tabula rasa both engendered by the reconstruction effort of downtown and the public amnesia happening in our society.

And the souks were traditional arab souks unique to beirut, Yes they werent modern but I imagine them to be somewhat similar but slightly more modern than Saida's souks. Plus don't forget the entire souk area was very heterogenous, it varied from one souk to the next. So your parents could be referring to the medieval section of the souk, which I think should have been restored, if not at least re purposed (natural museum? ) However to my knowledge souk el taweeleh was almost on par with the french mandate buildings.

Bottomline, with all the destruction , beirut still maintains more character than many arab capitals ive seen (namely amman , boy are they jealous!!!) but something must be urgently done to preserve what is left from the ottoman era in ashrafieh and zokak l blat, it hurts me to see the old palaces falling apart.

Finally i wish that dt returns as a meeting place for LEBANESE AND ABOVE ALL LEBANESE from all social categories, this shall be solideres way to make amends for what it has done .[/B]

Achrafiyeh, Gemmeyze, zkak el blat, Clemenceau, as well as Hamra, these are all areas in desperate need of attention and preservation. My rantings about solidere are in caution of allowing what happened there to be happen elsewhere.

And finally my concern and hope is the same as yours. I only wish these areas to unite the lebanese. But I don't think this is possible with the current plan.

One observation academics are having about beirut is that it is character has gone from being an ottoman city of communal inclusive living (different classes, ethnicities, and religions using the same spaces) to a dessert city (one that operates on a unification of class, and religious make up with neighbourhood; dividing neighborhoods and making them self sustainable something dangerous in a post war city like beirut and only engenders sectarian exclusion )

Just about the souks.. it is interesting to hear people's opinions on it restoration (destruction and construction?) from people who actually used it.
My mom would always go to the souk, she has vivid memories of it.. but she actually really likes the new souks. She agrees the history has been stripped from it, but she prefers the functionality of it. There are wider "alleys" and a more comfortable less aggravated atmosphere.
The thing with her is, she is happy that although it was torn down, some facades were left, and what was built in its place was a souk..and not some building. Thus the continuity of that plot goes on.

What was built in its place was a mall...not a souk. A souk and a mall are two different things. And this confusion engendered by Solidere is intentional in order to keep its legitimacy as a preserver of history.

It seems instead of hiring patriotic urban planners, they hired very skilled semioticians.

lol... . But it still retains a souk feel with its "alleys". I realize I am stretching it.. but its modern stores inside a modern structure but laid out to force you along an adventurous walk.

The word souk is diverse in its own right.. Aley souks looked nothing like the Beirut souks (old ones) but both are souks. The latter was pedestrian friendly while the former offers a 50/50 chance of being hit by a car lol. Comparing to souks in syria, they are also just as different.

A souk is what? A place where you can walk and buy basically everything side by side right? They come in all forms and in the end they are all meant to mean a market place.

You are right, each souk is different and unique to its area. But burberry, calvin klein, and an international food court do not count as a souk.

The actual definition of a souk is historically tied to a larger process specific to arab cities, and a souk develops over a long period of time which is why each souk is different because it depends on the environment it develops in. Also when you say souk you are implying a certain type of market where certain products are bought and sold, with certain behavioral codes such as bartering is allowed. Which is unlike the one found in Beirut.

My point is the term souk is farther away from what this is, but a mall is exactly what this is. And then you ask yourself why deliberately choose to call this mall a souk?

Also your definition of a souk can also be applied to a mall, so it is not specific enough.

I think the souks of beirut have now spread to other areas, Mar Elias, along the street leading up to Sassine, Hamra etc.. These are more akin to a souk than what is found in Beirut.

You can argue that with Solidere's current plan we don't need a souk. And I would agree with this. But my point is simply to highlight the manipulation of language used by Solidere to convince you it is maintaining history when if you look at what they have built, it is quite the contrary.

Am I still wrong?

hahah no you are right they do manipulate the language... i wasn't saying you were wrong about that:). But we ourselves also manipulate the word souk. Half the time people in my family use souk as a substitute for the mall or the grocery store. I always thought that was odd in its own..

I prefer stores in this souk though than what would be considered a traditional souk (ie. like syrias souks). They just have nothing I would buy.. or want to buy really.
Since for me organization is key, I am an impulse buyer so if presentation is working it then its being bought lol

I think creating a "modern" souk is a brilliant and original idea. Let's be realistic, the BCD is an upscale shopping desitination and the modern souks fits perfectly. If people want authentic traditional souks, they can visit souks of Byblos, trablos, saida, etc. There was no way to restore the Beirut souks to the way they were, even if they didnt demolish the original structures. It was a battlefield for 15 years (unlike the other continuously inhabited souks). Solidere found a way to create a modern shopping destination that pays tribute to the history of the space thorugh the street names, layout, architchture, while still bringing it into the 21st Century. I dont think that has ever been done before. Any other country would have just turned this space into another ABC-style mall.

Beiruti, first of all each souk is unique to its city. So if you want to experience an arab souk, each one in each city is different. If you long to experience Byblos's souk you can't travel to saida's to get a similar experience, its different its a very location specific experience.

1) The souks witnessed only one year of fighting at the beginning of the war, and physically survived the war. Also I don't see why Solidere couldn't have encouraged local market regrowth in the area. Maybe not for the same goods if the buyer supplier demand has changed, but my emphasis is on local industry and local retailers.You go to places in Germany and their markets are still intact and rehabilitated after wwII, and are one of the biggest tourist destinations. My friend brings me local made marzipan everytime he goes there for christmas ITS AMAZING.

I am simply asking to allow a space for civil society, ordinary citizens to repurpose the space.

I think we are totally neglecting the elephant in the room. Beirut "souks" is a luxury brand tourist trap. The ABC is high end retail market. As far as I am concerned with the level of income in the average Lebanese home, there is no market for someone who is living in the country.

But it seems you are all concerned with the image of modernity without any concern if there is any true authenticity to it. A Luxury shopping district in a city whose citizens can't afford to step in it does not make for something modern, but renders it as mere spectacle. Which is what is meant when Solidere is refereed to as a Disney land reproduction where they sell you souveniers of your experience.

In fact Solidere has done what any and every theme park has done.

They have created an area with a theme to be experienced. This are has an idealized Lebanese theme, tailored and branded by Solidere, where the target client is the foreigner. Where they are supposed to be surrounded by seemingly Lebanese brands (like the high end grand cafe) but also with recognizable and comforting international brands like starbucks, costa cafe. Hagen daz, whose employees can't afford to shop in the area they work in. The only thing missing is people Hired to walk the streets pretending to be lebanese, like some sort of disney character. But this can be substituted by the men wearing traditional ottoman garb as they serve you your 20 dollar argileh.

The Beirut souks is their new souvenir shop. The foreigners come, look at the facade of Beirut's downtown and believe they are experiencing an authentic experience. And at night everyone empties out of the area, the locals leave for their homes, guaranteed that none live close to downtown.The streets are then patrolled by security guards.

Have you ever tried to walk or have a conversation in downtown after they are closed? Did you know they tell you that downtown is now closed and you have to leave the area?

I don't think this is a city center, but more of a theme park. You live in America Beiruti, I live in Toronto. We both know what real, modern, city centers are. Lets not lie to ourselves and compare this one to them.

Turkey and Tunisia developed mass tourism. Lebanon choose luxury tourism. The goal today is to attract rich people from all over the world who spend money without asking, and in to attract these people, you need a certain infrastructure: 5 stars hotels, marinas, yachts, luxury restaurants, clubs, shopping areas. So Solidere's target isn't the average Lebanese or European, but the rich Khalijis, and rich people in general. No wonder I often see reportage of Downtown, with latest opening such as Dior and Louis Vuitton on Luxe TV.

I'm not saying this is legitimate, but it's a choice that was made. So don't be surprised if everything in the City center is overpriced and too expensive for you, you're (or us) just not their target.

yes you are exactly right, and I am no surprised that this has happened, I am more surprised that we have let it happen with complete consent. we have a right to question whether we want this or not, a right that we are not exercising. And unfortunately as this forum exemplifies it, most people would rather walk in a theme park in which they can't actually participate in, than have a real city center.

^^+1

yes you are exactly right, and I am no surprised that this has happened, I am more surprised that we have let it happen with complete consent. we have a right to question whether we want this or not, a right that we are not exercising. And unfortunately as this forum exemplifies it, most people would rather walk in a theme park in which they can't actually participate in, than have a real city center.


To be honest i always had mixed feelings about DT. On the one hand I can't deny the reconstruction of the area has been a major boost to Lebanon's toursim potential, but still I do believe that any gov would've eventually rebuilt it, and maybe without increasing our debt to sick levels. I also feel sorry for all shopowners who were forced to give up their properties and i feel disgust at Solidere's lack of sensitivity and respect towards the lebanese voices who want to take part in the process of rebuilding Beirut. I do think it's a mafia, but it's owned by politicians and we support them, blindly, so that's what we deserve. Still, some complain that DT is not for the Lebanese...well I disagree. You can actually go to DT at night, have dinner in a resto for an average price, smoke arguileh or have an icecream, walk around to see and be seen, and then move to one of DTs nightclubs, again for a reasonable price. We lebanese love to spend and if you compare what you'd spend a night out at Gemmayze or Jounieh or any other party area, I doubt it the difference would be too obvious. The problem here is that we hate to see khalijis invading our streets, and maybe even european tourists too. When tourists invade a certain area, it is only natural that locals feel displaced. This happens everywhere in the world. Personally I can't understand it. Lebanse should flock to DT and enjoy it. Cause either ways we paid for it and it seems we'll be paying for the next 100 years or more. So it's either we burn Solidere's HQ and take control of the area or we just take advantage. The place is beautiful. Regardless of social-economic-urban issues, the place is amazing and if the jaw is not lebanese, well we are in part to blame for that.

I do think that Solidere's planning is wrong in many senses. The Souks for example seem empty, and will probably stay empty most of the year. They are focusing on the wealthy arabs, but I doubt it that a bunch of arabs can make lebanon's tourism sector strong enough in the long term. Lebanon is a 4 million strong country, with areas outside Beirut which need investment desperatly. Arabs are not interested in visiting Saida, Sour, Tripoli, Baalbak or Zahle and investing there. Lebanon needs to cater for middle segment tourists too, maybe leaving exclusive areas for the use of the wealthy classes. Also, if you decide to focus on high end tourism, the least you can do is offer 5* services since the minute the rich tourist enters lebanon to the secoind he leaves. Unfortunatly Lebanon is far from being able to meet these people's standards. We do have a few nice hotels, some exclusive restos and rolex shops...but still, infrastructure is falling apart and poverty and dirt is obvious to all. I mean, the guys want to promote Lebanon as the Switzerland of the ME, but please, have any of you visited Switzerland lately? I hate to compare...

Last summer one of my friends visited Beirut and told me..."It's obvious the place has a chic past" meaning that the guy saw traces of that elegance everywhere...but he couldn't tell wether the place was going through a rebirth or if it was simply living on a glorious past which was far from being regained...

Ok, in the past few days, I COMPLETELY changed my vision about Beirut and Solidere, and to be honest, if they could turn whole Beirut like solidere (well not ALL beirut :P) I wouldn't say no.

The difference between districts is flagrant. There are places in Beirut in which you can't walk. Streets are narrow, buildings UGLY, and they keep building ugly residential everywhere, cars are parked in the middle of the roads, there are electricity cables everywhere, even the people walking in those streets look weird.

Walking in Solidere is good for the eye, and the ears lol
Walking in the majority of Beirut gives me a headache, and I today I prefer all the luxury and artifices of Solidere over other places in Beirut.

And I'm loving the souks :D (whatever happened to me, I swear I happened been brainwashed haha)

eh 7abbibi if your dream also comes with some miracle economic plan ahla w sahla. But it seems you are getting too used to saudi life :P

I say it before as I have always said it. This is Beirut, the good, the bad you either love all of it, or you dont love it. I can't wait to go back to leb just to walk those small streets again. Don't make Beirut something its not.

Take pics of the souks! If possible, places in the Souks that we have not seen (as we seem to have the same angle of pics being posted)

I think as the BCD gets more built up and more people visit and work there it will start to feel more authentic. We should be proud of this space since its one of the very few, if not only, truly diverse neighborhood (it cant be associated with any one religious or ethnic group).

while I do agree that in time this space might be better integrated. I would point out what one thing. The BCD is about the emphasis of religion into the nation, and it is not about the defusion of religious tension.

One example:
Before the war, Martyr's square was a symbol of Lebanese business and entertainment, however it was secular, and in fact it was the one consistent post card image emblematic of Lebanon. The construction of a grand mosque on its main entrance is significant to what Solidere or the nation envisions to be significant in its public space and what it sees should be included in its new postcard image.

Unfortunatly solidere is yet again a step back from secularism and the true inclusion of people not as Christian or Muslim, but as citizens of a state. Its sad to see that we are still trying to understand national citizenship, when other nations are already talking about being global citizens.

And I would also like to say, that the neighborhoods of Mar elias and Hamra are truly diverse neighbourhoods including all religions and all classes, and is not exclusionary or manufactured by a company.

Public performance banned in Downtown Beirut
SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 2011

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MSyfoBoT2Us/Tr6B-L8spiI/AAAAAAAABWc/rEqn25zbjhc/s320/IMG_1101.jpg

I've experienced many disturbing episodes in the corporate-owned and operated space known as Beirut Central District (BCD) or "Downtown."

I've been banned from taking pictures of historic buildings under demolition; I have been detained by police for documenting one of the BCD's oldest neighborhoods as it was being razed; I've even been censored by those protesting the space, namely Hezbollah, whose members forcibly erased my footage of the tents they used to occupy BCD in 2007.

However last night's incident tops the list petty policing in the luxury shopping district imaginatively branded Beirut's "City Center" by its billion-dollar developer, Solidere.

Last night, nothing happened to me, but rather I witnessed the humiliation and harassment of another--a defenseless middle-aged gentleman in a shameful incident that spoke volumes about the sincerity of the firm's newest corporate slogan "Solidere: Places for Life," as heard endlessly in a spot on CNN International.

It all began around 11PM last night when I approached the clock tower at Place d'Etoile, a vestige of the French colonial city modeled on its Parisian counterpart, now refurbished into a pedestrian high street.

I was pleasantly surprised to see a crowd of dozens of people clapping and congregating in the open space--Downtown's largest--to the sound of a man singing soulful Arabic songs. Perhaps I had misjudged Solidere for having orchestrated a largely elite neighborhood, free from the nuisance of the poor and underprivileged and all things serendipitous or cosmopolitan that bring actual "city centers" to life.

But moments later, reality came crashing in when a police officer abruptly pulled the man aside in a threatening fashion to the surprise of the onlookers, who hurriedly dispersed. Clearly this bit of unregulated entertainment was unwanted and needed to be silenced.

As he stood quietly amid the stream of passersby, I walked up and asked the man, who seemed less than five feet tall, where he was from. He announced excitedly that he was Jordanian and represented Rotana, one of the Middle East's largest music labels. Whether the speech was a stage act or bout of lunacy, this short, enthusiastic entertainer could be considered anything but a threat to the public.

"They said I am bothering them," he pleaded to me in reference to the security officers, a usual mix of army troops and policemen, standing watch from the curbside. He propped up his chest and saluted as one walked past.

Hearing his story, I lamented the lack of free expression and asked him (perhaps irresponsibly) to sing some more.

He gathered his breath and suddenly bolted out a swinging Arabic note with impressive timbre "Give us Hurriye (freedom)," he sang, "give us freedom," he repeated, delivering the line directly to troops facing him across the street.

Some of the soldiers cracked smiles and a small crowd regathered, clapping enthusiastically at the lyrics. But the fleeting moment of ease was disrupted again when a stern-faced army solider, clearly annoyed, made his way toward the singer from behind. He gripped the man's arm, yanked him backward and this time marched him out of the square entirely, adding a few expletives for effect.

"Why did you take him away," I asked the burly soldier, having followed him to the opposite end of the square.

"That man is crazy," he said loudly, gesturing a finger toward his head.

"Is it illegal to sing here?" I asked.

"It is illegal to gather publicly," the solider said. "Public gathering is forbidden in the square."

"What is the square, if not a place for public gathering," I countered.

"Thats not your business," he quipped, sensing my incredulous look. "This is a security issue. Our responsibility is security. Now move along," he added firmly, before turning away and quickly walking off.

Other officers also left but a few remained near the clock tower, keeping watch over the crowd, as seen to the right of the photo below:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h1kfbXlFWEc/Tr6PDkqQ2qI/AAAAAAAABXk/JbP5sr9mnS0/s320/IMG_1087.jpg

So what was this feared security threat, I wondered.

Were the Mandarins of the Lebanese government finally realizing that the time had come for them to worry about joining the fate of their regional dictatorial counterparts, beset with demonstrations in public squares?

Or were both the army and police under orders to ensure that those who profit from Downtown's faux public space be limited to the millionaires who can afford to rent its exorbitantly priced retail spaces?

Indeed "Downtown" was ranked the most expensive neighborhood in the Middle East last year, seemingly in line with Solidere's mission of creating the region's "finest city center" according to its chairman's message.

Rather than attracting Beirut residents-- the vast majority of which cannot afford its shops--the BCD has evolved into a destination for affluent visitors and high wealth foreign nationals. In fact, last night the streets surrounding the clock tower were dominated by oil-rich Saudi Arabian and Arab Gulf tourists:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2KCdmCgSPo0/Tr6CJX5WQ0I/AAAAAAAABWk/QNOcpw2wx6o/s320/IMG_1092.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EH72l3Bsow8/Tr6CYE4iQ3I/AAAAAAAABW0/2w-wGL9ZtZo/s320/IMG_1091.jpg

A boon to the economy no doubt, but one that largely feeds elite establishments, rather than the majority of businesses. Perhaps those international investors watching Solidere's adverts on CNN will need to place a sizable Asterix denoting the growing list of exceptions to its slogan, which now adorns many city streets:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-B3fE0CQ72qU/Tr6fV_Ko9hI/AAAAAAAABXs/KdrD6SA7Nuc/s320/P1070641.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bi3UgLIw1gw/Tr6fYyPf-0I/AAAAAAAABX0/A0ISjQEo5DM/s320/P1070640.jpg

Places for Life*

*Does not apply to most Beirut residents, journalists, photographers, and now, street performers.


SOURCE: The Beirut Report (http://www.beirutreport.com/2011/11/public-performance-banned-in-downtown.html)

Hey guys,

I don't know whether this is the right place but I have a question about Solidere. Many people seem to despise it, yet isn't it a good company in a sense that it is rebuilding the CBD of Beirut while rebuilding and/or renovating many of Beirut's old buildings thus taking care of Beirut's heritage. I mean architecture wise the CBD is the nicest place in Beirut (which in other places is a little eye sore). Do people despise Solidere because Hariri is buying the land for himself? Is Solidere also active in other cities across Lebanon or only Beirut?

Thank you!

I have to disagree a little with this whole bcd thing.. i love my bcd the way it is.. and many central districts in generally big cities are more expensive than anywhere else in the city.. its normal.. we have 5 stars hotels but we also have other hotels in beirut.. obviously if you want to live in a hotel in the middle of the city don't expect it to be cheap.. and yes the stores are expensive.. but there is also dunkin (avg priced).. and many stores in the souks are VERY affordable.. but it of course has the luxury..

I disagree with this whole discussion of solidere owning the land.. if you're going to go into a big restaurant in the middle of the city expect it to price like a big restaurant in the middle of the city..

another club that most lebanese have no access to, wow

^^ what's your point?
Do you want every single Lebanese to be able to stay at 5 star hotels?

if you cant get my point, well its a shame.
once a wise man said:
during the lebanese civil war beiruties burned down beirut with no remorse because they couldnt affored any of the delights it represents.

I'm just sick of all these big hippy sentimental statements that everyone throws around.. We can't afford downtown, another club Lebanese have no access to, .. Not everyone is supposed to afford everything, because not everyone is educated, driven and therefore successful..

Yes some are born under privileged than others, but that doesn't mean they do not have the opportunity to better their future. Especially in Lebanon!

If you can't understand that, then that's the shame

maybe thats why your living/working in dubai i guess ...

what i cant understand is how people like you do exist

@kinane your hilarious, if you havent noticed yet, we live in a capitalist country.. so if you want a boring, monotonic, selfless, inhuman city you can go to the nearest communist country

no,
what i want is to live in a city where unemployment is sky rocketing, in a city where an average professional cant earn more than 1500$ and yet apartments prices are soaring, a city either if your educated or not you have no future, a city where ALL new residential project are "luxurious", a city with no urban planing at all, a city that have 2 green spaces sanaye3 and horsh beirut <- no one can enter, a city with no water nor electricity, a city that every now and then there is clashes and gunfire, a city that have more cars than people, and the list goes on and on ..... !!!
are you kidding me !!!!
and yet all we do is earn a couple of coins and go party, and we are proud of it !!!
how many of the forumers can afford an apartment in beirut ?
all of this discution started becouse of a new club opening in downtown, that you have to make a reservation a year earlier in order to get in !!!
please keep your ignorant and ludicrous comments for your selves.
it might be THE state of the art club in the world, and !!!???
so dont hippie me nor tell me to go to a communist country,
what you should do is be less stubborn and admit what kind of a city we live in.
and if its not too much to ask, read books ....

if you cant get my point, well its a shame.
once a wise man said:
during the lebanese civil war beiruties burned down beirut with no remorse because they couldnt affored any of the delights it represents.

This wise man was very wise indeed! ;)

I think u guys need to take a step back to realize you are talking about allot of different things.

I think we all can agree that there is an enormous amount of price inflation in Beirut, and the Luxury market supply (apartments, shops, products, services etc) out weighs the demand.

I think of course not everyone is supposed to afford everything, but its also we are not supposed to afford nothing. Anyone who has family back in Lebanon knows its the constant complaint, other than about electricity, its the prices, for tuition, apartments, cars, food.

And really this idea of a luxury downtown bubble only exists in the gulf and now in Lebanon, its by no means a natural concept. But these bubbles exist because gulf "downtowns" and unfortunately, Beirut's downtown are artificial and constructed. And in the case of Solidere, it really is a company, and capitalism and profit is the motivator so it makes perfect sense why that is mostly a luxury area and luxury market, its going to get Solidere the most profit to rent and sell shops and land to those types of industries and clientele.

But, the majority of downtowns, or city centres of the world that have not been groomed this way, allot spaces and different businesses for many different levels of income. So you see various social groups and people interacting with one another, in the city centre and not just a certain strata of Society.

I think is that is the most dangerous things that is happening, we've created luxury ghettos that do not or have not YET allowed for proper social integration with the rest of the city. Downtown Beirut has always been the stage for history and struggle, and whats happening now speaks allot about the values that we have, the eroding middle class, and for the future, potential social tensions building.

no,
what i want is to live in a city where unemployment is sky rocketing, in a city where an average professional cant earn more than 1500$ and yet apartments prices are soaring, a city either if your educated or not you have no future, a city where ALL new residential project are "luxurious", a city with no urban planing at all, a city that have 2 green spaces sanaye3 and horsh beirut <- no one can enter, a city with no water nor electricity, a city that every now and then there is clashes and gunfire, a city that have more cars than people, and the list goes on and on ..... !!!
are you kidding me !!!!
and yet all we do is earn a couple of coins and go party, and we are proud of it !!!
how many of the forumers can afford an apartment in beirut ?
all of this discution started becouse of a new club opening in downtown, that you have to make a reservation a year earlier in order to get in !!!
please keep your ignorant and ludicrous comments for your selves.
it might be THE state of the art club in the world, and !!!???
so dont hippie me nor tell me to go to a communist country,
what you should do is be less stubborn and admit what kind of a city we live in.
and if its not too much to ask, read books ....

ALLL OF THIS WAS CAUSED BY THE NEW CLUB OPENING?
Interesting tell me more.

no, all of this was started by two forumers by making an out of place comments on a comment that i made concerning the opening of the infamous club.
now if you mean by "tell me more", to continue this discussion, well, give me a break, and stop been sarcastic.

@Kinane: Thank God I figured you are being sarcastic ! I was shocked how someone could coldly say so but then I scrolled up and read the conversation that was goin on.
Not much of a happy ending tho, as one or two of the commenters above accuses, in a bold naive sense, the misfortunate of their conditions knowing that in such a society which is praised for its high literacy rate, lots of its better assets ultimately expatriate. "Driven" here is a quality that doesnt stem from one's own but is set by those social hierarchical segregative approaches of the fortunate elites who not only grant access to clubs, but also to posts in firms, banks, govermental institutes, media companies, or any other employing sector. That's why "Driven OUT"* says it better.
I would have used the word "wasta" had it not become so redundant to our minds and lost the tragic dimensions to it and had it not overlooked the unfair impact on our society.
It is simple. You cant be unreal and shout loud about it. It wud be just noise, and I do think we will run out of it anytime soon in Lebanon.

no, all of this was started by two forumers by making an out of place comments on a comment that i made concerning the opening of the infamous club.
now if you mean by "tell me more", to continue this discussion, well, give me a break, and stop been sarcastic.

no sir your topic is of no interest to me, i was just having fun with how everything that happens that is positive to beirut is usually taken negative by its residents thats all.. and they make the story much bigger than itself..
listen man, many clubs are affordable you don't have to go to the fanciest club in town.. its ok.. but clearly the club was made for people to go there, and i assure you, its going to be full all year long.. and is putting beirut back on the map as a party city.. you ignored all of this and turned the club into just another expensive club in beirut????

unfortunatly, i would not like to beirut to be known as a party city, and forget all the richness in culture that it have

Nothing is related to culture, nothing is educational!

The most dangerous thing is happening right in front of our eyes... We're loosing our Heritage. I am sorry I see nothing interesting in Down Town Beirut apart from those ruins that most of the year, they are been eaten by uncut grass :)

well it is known as a party city.. and that doesn't change that we have our culture and our heritage.. i am speaking of one thing and you're speaking of another…

let alone that downtown has just been revived guys, what do you expect them to have a museum over there??? there are many things in lebanon to describe our heritage, especially outside of beirut… i'm not worried about that point at all..

Anyways check out this nice little article of the things we can do in the city for less than 10 dollars..

Courtesy of BeirutNightLife:
Enjoy What Lebanon has to Offer with Just $10 USD!
February 29, 2012 | Filed under: Featured,Tourism | Posted by: Michelle K.
While it is true that living a life of luxury can be costly, our beautiful country of Lebanon offers many day-to-day activities that tourist and inhabitants are able to experience for little to no cost. I often hear complaints about enjoyment costing too much money…I beg to differ, there is no reason to stay at home or in your hotel room when there are many activities to do around town that won’t even put a small dent in your wallet or travel budget.

Enjoy a life of leisure in Lebanon for 10$ or less!

Never pass up a chance to see a Museum:
Lebanon proudly possesses a National Museum, although not too large in size, there are many fascinating artifacts to check out. For only a few dollars you can learn about the history of the city, the civil war and more.
AUB Museum is another you can check out for free!







Scenery is free:
There are many places to visit here in Lebanon that can take your breath away without costing you a dime…

- Head over to Ain Mrayseh near the sea to enjoy long walks down the sea front path. It’s a great place to enjoy a morning jog or a nice stroll to the lighthouse. Benches are set up to stop and enjoy the view.

- Gemmayzeh (picture on the right), Sodeco and more in Achrafieh. Achrafieh is my favorite place in Lebanon, it is a very busy area with non-stop action. I suggest taking a long walk around Achrafieh to enjoy some adorable old buildings, visit the always-crowded Gemmayzeh district and more. You can always stop into a pastry shop on the way and enjoy a dessert and drink for under $10 USD.


Breakfast is served:
Another thing I love about Lebanon is that you can enjoy a full breakfast for two with $10 USD. Wherever you are in Lebanon, in the mornings you can find breakfast spots that serve delicious Manousheh (pictured on the left), Lahmeh B3ajeen and more. You can sit all morning enjoying a full breakfast with juice while chatting with friends or a loved one with your pocket change.





Hamra is a must for tourists: Hamra is another busy, wealthy and entertaining street in Beirut city. You can walk the entire strip to enjoy window-shopping at the various shops in Hamra, then take your $10 USD daily budget and enjoy a light snack. If you are perusing Hamra in the daytime I suggest you stop into Bread Republic on Nehme Yafet Street, and do try their cheesecake! At night Hamra boasts many pubs to enjoy. Big Shot is a novel pub that hit Hamra Street. Its theme is Hip-Hop, so enjoy the beats of a resident DJ bumpin’ music all night long and have a drink or two! Faces and De Prague are also two places to check out on your visit to Hamra.



Sessine Square Ashrafieh:
Another perfect spot to enjoy with $10 USD is Sessine Square in Achrafieh. The popular round about features various stores, restaurants, and coffee shops to enjoy. I can literally spend a full day at Sessine and feel as if time has flown by. I suggest starting off window shopping, checking out the boutique shops, then head over to the ABC mall, and end the day at one of the numerous coffee shops that are open late. Columbiana, Costa or Starbucks all make a fine cup of java.



Lastly and one of my favorite spots is…



Zaitunay Bay: The newly revamped area Zaitunay Bay is a gorgeous area to relax and enjoy a full day. The luxurious area near the bayhosts 17 restaurants and at least 5 retail outlets. When visiting Zaitunay Bay I suggest walking around to enjoy the scenery and then unwind and spend your $10 USD budget on yummy ice cream at Haagen-Dazs! If you are watching your calories head over to Cappuccino or The Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf for a cup of coffee to complete your day.





Enjoyment in Lebanon doesn’t have to cost you an arm and a leg…the country is breathtaking enjoy it to the fullest!

BNLer’s feel free to share your money saving and fun ways to enjoy Beirut in a comment below!

Therefore stop saying that there is nothing that one can do in beirut because its becoming so expensive, here is a list of some pretty nice ways to spend time in beirut.. and if we think a little more we can probably come up with 10 more ways we can spend time without spending too much money in beirut..

The problem here is not what Solidere did right/wrong in the reconstruction.. The problem is what Solidere did not do when it was making decisions.

As you can all see, Solidere did not integrate these public discussions and debates into its reconstruction plans. These debates that you guys are having should not be happening out here in a blog. They should be happening within the company's decision-making body. The company has made its own private choices, which, frankly, is not a good thing. Some ppl may say that private is good in Lebanon because we don't have to deal with the "whining, sectarian Lebanese who can't agree on anything", but I don't think that's a legitimate excuse. If Downtown Beirut is TRULY for everyone, then EVERYONE should be allowed to have a say in the way the reconstruction is going.

Everyone should feel like they belong in Downtown Beirut. But as you can see from this discussion, not everyone does. And the main reason for this, is because Solidere did not take into consideration what most people can afford. Downtown Beirut should not just be affordable to foreigners. It should be affordable to the Lebanese.

Solidere likes to think that city centres only have expensive shops... But this isn't really true. I live in London, one of the most expensive cities in the world... But even so, not everything in Zone1 London is expensive. In fact, I know expensive villas side-by-side with counsel estates, little privately-owned sandwich shops next to pattiseries and boutique shops, cheap clothes chains like Primark on Oxford Street, next to all the other expensive shops like CK.

As much as Solidere did succeed in physically reconstructing the place, it was nothing more than "physical"... It's beautiful to look at... That's about it. I'm sorry, if I provoke anyone, but this is what I think. Glad to hear what everyone else thinks.

Overcrowded country, chaotic constructions, its pride destroyed for money (mountains quarried cut down for buildings and selling sand and concrete), polluted air everywhere, even the more remote areas are now getting built up with "luxurious" hotels, a history destroyed for the sake of building towers, traffic jam everywhere because there's no decent transportation system, the only thing left to do is to party (which I define as sitting in a noisy place with a disgusting smell of cigarettes, and getting drunk to let go then risk your life to get back home before the sun rises because you know that there are loads of drunken people driving on the road as well). And there's the politicians problem as well who are still worshiped by the people: I don't see why in the Car-Free Mina event last year in Tripoli, the army brought dogs to search my car trunk at the car parking because I had a couple of music instruments, and although it is called CAR-FREE, the politicians came with 40 cars each (that's a total of 200 cars) which infested the whole Mina, and the people were still pushing each other to get a look at their dear politicians without even really hearing what they were saying in the speeches. And a former prime minister has a sanctuary in the middle of Beirut's CBD, even though it's thanks to him that we have this CBD, that's not a reason to get him a sanctuary, and I'm sure that if he comes back from the dead, he'll insult and yell at the people who made this for him, stating that "I'm a prime minister, not a Saint, not the Prophet".

On the other hand: culture is soaring back up: now we have three movie theaters bringing cinema d'auteur instead of one (Metropolis Sofil, Empire Sodeco, Dunes), the theater world is going back up with more plays being represented all the time at Tournesol, Babel, Medina, Beryte, Monnot and Masrah Beirut, we have fête de la musique, and more and more international music festivals. This year we can know how Beirut really looks in summer without the Khalijis since they were obliged by their respective countries not to go to Lebanon in case of clashes. Well, I think this summer will really judge what Lebanon should be like.