Only incidentally about the Dana: I was a bit up the hill two weeks ago, walking in the new area without a camera. I looked down a street that terminates in the Dana, and was thinking that it was a planning mistake not to have slightly changed the Dana plot to have allowed a view through to the sea there, when one of the famous security guards in the area came up and asked me what I was doing. I said I was just looking around. He stared and then said, unfortunately only partly to my surprise, "you...cannot...LOOK...here"

Amazing...

I just don't get why it is like that in Wadi Abou Jamil and the Marina, and Beil area!!
Enno what the **** is there to hide?
Its like your at guilt for just being there!!

Only incidentally about the Dana: I was a bit up the hill two weeks ago, walking in the new area without a camera. I looked down a street that terminates in the Dana, and was thinking that it was a planning mistake not to have slightly changed the Dana plot to have allowed a view through to the sea there, when one of the famous security guards in the area came up and asked me what I was doing. I said I was just looking around. He stared and then said, unfortunately only partly to my surprise, "you...cannot...LOOK...here"

Amazing...

I would have questioned the fucker out of his mind!.... OH YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW PISSED OFF THAT STORY MAKES ME. Seriously guys, why the hell do we NOT have the right to walk, watch, or LIVE in our own f'n CITY. Why the hell is a politician more privileged than a citizen!

Lebnani, that's probably because in first world countries, the politician is a "PUBLIC SERVANT", while in Lebanon the people are the "POLITICIAN'S SERVANTS" ....

I am no one's servant and I would expect everyone else in leb to share the same p.o.v. My allegiance is to my nation not to its gov't. Seriously, we need to start spreading awareness about this problem

unfortunately you and i don't count my friend, sectarianism in Lebanon has turned the people into followers of their sectarian leader, they would follow everything he says, he would pay them some money before the elections, some politicians don't even need to do that because they're worshiped, and that's about it... We always brag about being smart and about being LEBANESE, but the fact is that 80% of the Lebanese people who live in Lebanon are dull, and don't even deserve to be Lebanese ...

Ok fine, but that's something that needs to be changed, and this is actually why I wanted to be in media.... there needs to be a mobilizing force... look things ARE shitty and we can acknowledge that, but I believe as long as we carry that knowledge we have the choice of doing nothing or doing something and I really want this problem to begin to be solved, if not for our generation, for the sake of the next. for the sake of the word LEBANON ..... and for the sake of everyone and everything associated with it.

This is place is unique... in the mid east, unique amongst other med countries, and in the world..... and it deserves our attention.

Someone should E-mail SOLIDERE about this crap :ohno: I myself have never been questioned by a single guard because I have the policy of: Set the camera so it takes 3 pictures at once, press the button, flee the seen quickly, no questions asked, so if one picture turned out bad I still have 2 others

I think the only way solidere would care is if ppl stopped going down, or if they somehow stopped making money

Solideres security is absolutely ridiculous. They're just random guys Solidere hired off the street on a power trip. Not professional at all. One security guard yelled at one of my students for simply standing in Saifi Village. STANDING! Just simply ignore them. Its what I used to do when I used to photograph downtown and Solidere security would yell. I've always believed Solidere is not for the majority of the Lebanese people. Its not only a disgusting display of upper class gluttony but downtown is also incredibly boring, uncultured, and as seen in this thread, unnecessarily restrictive. There are actually no photography restrictions in the city of Beirut with the exception of Qorietiem, Ain el Tinne, and the Navy base (all signed) but as with all Arab nations there is a sort of photograph-phobia which seems to prevail. I agree with lebnani. Solidere is a joke of a company who doesn't bother listening to emails. I went to their office to complain when I first came to Beirut. If you think Beirut is bad, try Amman! Its even worse.

You guys are being very harsh on Solideres! Yes, Solideres is not perfect, but you can't ignore what a great job Solideres is doing!
And if anyone has a better feasible way of reconstructing downtown than please enlighten us!

I do feel SCARED when caring my camera around Lebanon (not just Downtown).. Our country is still indeed very photograph phobic. Very sad, but true!
It even makes me feel an alien in my own country!!

I took photos like there was no tomorrow when I was in Lebanon. In Downtown Beirut I didnt get told off at out I did it right infront of the security gurds.

^^ Same here, I had around 600 photos (most of them from Tripoli), I actually never had a SINGLE problem with anybody telling me a single thing in Tripoli, and in Beirut I just did some "drive by shooting" (sitting in the passenger seat and taking pictures while you drive by)

My turn to complain, now that i'm actually living in beirut, and don't have a job yet, i'm just walking around discovering the city.
Wherever you are, whenever you take your camera, all the eyes and the people just stare at you, like what are you taking with your camera? unfinished buildings? that's weird! i even heard the comments: look at this one, taking a picture of a building under construction, I wonder whow is he working for? I mean: It's amazing the ignorance there is!
And like in the first post, I just stood and stared at a building near old Holiday Inn, and 1 "darake" came and asked me what i wanted, told nothing, i just like this building and i'm enjoying the nice skyline. He answerd, leave now and keep walking, and get out of this area as soon as possible, it is forbidden to stop and look here, I mean, I wasn't even taking a picture!
He asked for my ID, where I live, and told me if in 1 minute I was still in the street he was going to arrest me!
I just asked him why? can you just tell me why? I have the right to know as a lebanese citizen just walking in my capital? no harm?
He answerd: You are going to drive me nuts, get the hell from here right away, how do you dare to ask why?
I told him to calm down, that I was living, honestly, don't want to go to jail!
And 1 thing guys, it's sad for me to say this, but Lebanon can have beautiful architecture, beautiful nature, etc. But mentalities are shitty! and this will last for decades! I don't think i'm gonna stay here more than 1 year, this is good for vacations only! and no offence for anyone, since i'm half lebanese too.

LOL THAT IS EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD WHAT HAPPENED TO ME!!! LOL Don't worry I am fully lebanese and I feel the same way.

Here is a tip, if you tell them you are a foreigner and you play it extra nice they will be good to you. I told him I live in canada and I just want to take pictures, he was nice enough to let me take some while he watched and then I asked him where I could take pics just so he would feel important. You have to know how to stroke their ego its ridiculous really! I left him on good terms, even shook hands...

But it all matters who you get...

Oh how i wish this would happen to me one day!!! some of these "DARAK" believe they're sort of ministers or something and they behave accordingly, and one way to deal with this is to act the nice guy like lebnani said, or even way better than that is to threaten them, in Lebanon you would hear this sentence anywhere you go:" DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM ?? "if you know somebody in a good post that's all u gotta say to the "DARAKE", not that i like to do this kind of thing, and not that i don't abide by the law, on the contrary i stop on the red lights when i am in Lebanon and i get all kinds of insults by the people behind me many times, i wear my seat-belt i behave just as if i were in Europe, but the other time when i was in Lebanon, there was a very heavy traffic on rawshe and i was a bit in a hurry, so i saw all the cars in front of me doing a U-turn although there was a sign that said it's forbidden, and although the policeman was standing right next to the sign, but after i saw like 10 or more cars turning around i said what the heck i am gonna do the same, and the man decided to stop me out of all the cars that passed right in front of him, i admitted i was mistaken but the fact that he didn't say anything to all the other drivers really pissed me off, so i have this relative of mine who is head of the airport and embassies security department in the internal security forces, so i just told the policeman why did you pull me over when everyone else was turning and he ironically said because i liked your car, so i just asked him if he could tell me his name and then his voice changed immediately and asked me what for, i told him for nothing, it just happens that this car is " AL-3amid X's brother " and i happen to be his nephew so i just wanna phone-call him and ask him about this new law that allows policemen to stop people according to their cars, and as soon as he heard that, the man's color changed he didn't know how to get rid of me he apologized and started telling me " 7a2ak 3laye, ma twekhezne bla bla " even though i don't do this often especially when i know am wrong, but sometimes it's the only thing you can do in Lebanon ...

Somebody needs to complain to Ziad Baroud about this...

And if anyone has a better feasible way of reconstructing downtown than please enlighten us!

ehem...

And what is there to hide about getting photographed in restaurants ???

Hahaha I recommend dying your hair blond so they think you're tourists hehe

Ok ppl heres a story for you. My main hobby is to create 3 dimensional models in beirut and upload them to google earth. in order to do that, i should take photos of the buildings I want to model and use these photos in the procces. Not so long ago, last week maybe, I was in the Beirut central district taking photographs of buildings, which was a painstaking procces took about 3 hours, when I got to the "Nahhar" newspaper building I figured that there would be no prob taking photos of it since there are plenty of photos of the same building on the net. So, taking the photographs of the front went on with ease, however when I got to the back, the security gaurd expressed in a "prominent" manner that its not allowed to take photos of the building. He took my camera deleted EVERY photo on it, even those not related to the building which took me 3 hours to take, and gave me back my camera. I so wanted to punch the living daylights out of his fat ass!!!!

Don't give up man! We need people like you doing that SOOO MUCH! I always wished that the whole city would be 3D! Sorry to hear what happened this sucks! I used to always keep 3 sd cards with me and change it every 30 minutes... Keep it up and if I were you I would have given it a shot the next day!

Ok ppl heres a story for you. My main hobby is to create 3 dimensional models in beirut and upload them to google earth. in order to do that, i should take photos of the buildings I want to model and use these photos in the procces. Not so long ago, last week maybe, I was in the Beirut central district taking photographs of buildings, which was a painstaking procces took about 3 hours, when I got to the "Nahhar" newspaper building I figured that there would be no prob taking photos of it since there are plenty of photos of the same building on the net. So, taking the photographs of the front went on with ease, however when I got to the back, the security gaurd expressed in a "prominent" manner that its not allowed to take photos of the building. He took my camera deleted EVERY photo on it, even those not related to the building which took me 3 hours to take, and gave me back my camera. I so wanted to punch the living daylights out of his fat ass!!!!



Yiiii such a shame ,that would be a great idea city in 3D ,don't give up!!!!

do they actually have a right to TAKE it? I mean these are not even official state police officers!! I would NEVER give them anything...I'd tell him to arrest me if he dares...fucking idiots!

do they actually have a right to TAKE it? I mean these are not even official state police officers!! I would NEVER give them anything...I'd tell him to arrest me if he dares...fucking idiots!

I'm pretty sure that the 'heavy' guard is private. When he confrontedme I told him (which was true) that I wasn't taking the An Nahar building, but was focusing on the Gray.

I really don't get the worry over pictures. If you were a serious terrorist, you'd have myriad ways of taking pictures without being noticed. Brazil for the last few years has featured one story after another of officials being filmed while taking bribes, usually sitting four feet away from the person doing the filming.

Ok ppl heres a story for you. My main hobby is to create 3 dimensional models in beirut and upload them to google earth. in order to do that, i should take photos of the buildings I want to model and use these photos in the procces. Not so long ago, last week maybe, I was in the Beirut central district taking photographs of buildings, which was a painstaking procces took about 3 hours, when I got to the "Nahhar" newspaper building I figured that there would be no prob taking photos of it since there are plenty of photos of the same building on the net. So, taking the photographs of the front went on with ease, however when I got to the back, the security gaurd expressed in a "prominent" manner that its not allowed to take photos of the building. He took my camera deleted EVERY photo on it, even those not related to the building which took me 3 hours to take, and gave me back my camera. I so wanted to punch the living daylights out of his fat ass!!!!


You should have taken his name and id number, and reported him. (you could have made a bit of cash in the process ;) )

its time normal people stand up to this nonesense.. its our country, our cities, and the streets and building exteriors are PUBLIC.

Did you even TRY to explain what you were doing? or did you just hand over the camera upon request?

sorry I'm a bit of a stranger in this forum but I wanted to comment in this sort of thing because I thought it only happened a lot here in Egypt. In Cairo, every time I whip out my camera I got stares and random people on the street interrogating me. I mean is this a mideast mentality to be suspicious of anyone with a camera? the mentality in Egypt is that if you look like a foreigner people think you only want to take pictures so you can show your friends how poor and backwards the mideast is, and if you look like a local and want to take pictures of an interesting building for example, people think you're a terrorist. You can't win either way:ohno:
I feel like there's no appreciation or understanding of artistic freedom. I'm glad I'm not the only one who's frustrated about this even though Lebanon and Egypt are two different countries. But like someone else said, when dealing with security people who are harrassing you its best to play the dumb foreigner and make the guy feel special and important. Plus I feel that as a foreigner you get more 'respect' than a local for some strange reason. It's sad and I hate to do it because I really do want to punch some of these people so bad.

The other day I got surrounded by six police officers in the middle of downtown Cairo just for looking through the photos in my camera while standing next to a parked moped that apparently was also suspicious!

You should have taken his name and id number, and reported him. (you could have made a bit of cash in the process ;) )

its time normal people stand up to this nonesense.. its our country, our cities, and the streets and building exteriors are PUBLIC.

Did you even TRY to explain what you were doing? or did you just hand over the camera upon request?

Sorry for the long time to respond -

I did try to explain what I was doing but he kept asking me about the firm I work for thinking that Im taking pictures to some kind of firm or company. I told him that everyone else are taking photos and just because I dont look like a tourist you delete my photos. I tried to blow him off and ignore his request - but he called his other "guardy" friends and wouldn't let me pass untill I handed over the camera. It was sort of a scene , ppl were standing around staring wondering what did I do to attract the attention of the gaurds.

I have had another problem similar to this one next to the Beirut port again last tuesday, but I figured if I spoke English the security gaurd there would just stop trying, fortunately it worked :)

I have had another problem similar to this one next to the Beirut port again last tuesday, but I figured if I spoke English the security gaurd there would just stop trying, fortunately it worked :)

This is a good idea. Next time I get harassed by a security guard for taking photos, I'll start speaking English pretending like I had no idea what he said. :)

^^ Works for me every time! I also request to speak with the Embassy and they get scared and leave me alone.

^^ lol, I didnt go that far. I just said :"What? What do you want ? I cant understand? You want my ID? Im not from here" then he just looked like he has just crapped his pants and turned away slowly and kept walking.

Just hope you wont come accross one who speaks English !

^^You should contact the Ministry of Tourism and tell them what you're doing. Show them what you've created in Google Earth so far and then show them another city in Google Earth, like Istanbul, so they see what you're trying to achieve.

^^^ Think so? But why, I dont think they'd be intrested...

You should participate in Nataloo :D

LOL, whats Nataloo ? Is it that talk show were a woman copies Racheal Ray ?

^^^ Think so? But why, I dont think they'd be intrested...

Of course they would be interested...who knows they might even support you financially.

^^^ LOL ! I dont think it gonna be that much of a big deal ! but why not ! someday I will :)

Who harassed you?

LOL, who didn't !

A police biker who was just passing there and saw me, a security gaurd who I guess works in the nearby car rental company and a few "tough guys" who demanded to see the photos and erase them. Apparently, the area there is targeted by Hezbollah :mad::wtf:

LOL, who didn't !

A police biker who was just passing there and saw me, a security gaurd who I guess works in the nearby car rental company and a few "tough guys" who demanded to see the photos and erase them. Apparently, the area there is targeted by Hezbollah :mad::wtf:

So frustrating... :ohno:

I really wish we could bring up this issue to government officials and how it makes Lebanon appear to be a police state which it is not supposed to be.

Then again, in Hezbollah-controlled areas the government has no say anyway so perhaps we'd just be wasting our time...

I don't know if you include South Lebanon in your Hezb controlled areas", but I take photos freely there. Da7yeh is another issue I guess, I never tried.

Its even starting to bother Tourists!

Courtesy of Viajante (http://www.flickr.com/photos/viajante/)(uploaded today)

http://i42.tinypic.com/sziii0.jpg

A sign forbidding photography at St. George's Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Beirut, Lebanon.

I've never had as difficult a time shooting as I did in Beirut. It is the least camera friendly place I have been. Almost every time I took the camera out a security guard, policeman or soldier appeared and ordered me to put it back in the bag. Even shooting things as innocuous as election posters pasted on wall or flowers on a hillside aroused suspicion. I tried playing the dumb tourist card, but it didn't get me very far. Travel photographer Steve Davey said, "if you're not having fun shooting it will show in your photos". I think it shows in this set, unfortunately, except the last day's shots in Place de l'Etoile. Those were taken on Sunday, when Beiruti families take over the streets around the clock tower for use as a park. Soldiers and policemen were out in force, but no one said a word to me. If I return to Beirut someday I'll be sure to make it a Sunday.

of course it will! the city-center is a touristic destination and has perfect settings for photographing.. Hariri has cash.. he can move somewhere else.. while us, we only have this capital.

^^ AMEN

^^ If you look at it from a "reasonable" POV you cannot pinpoint a reason (at least a good) one why cameras are not allowed in some places...

Just a random thought I wanted to share...not all solidere security men are violent/"mean"/bad as it sounds in this forum, and depending on the place in DT you're in, some may even suggest taking a photo for you hehe

that is not the point.... I don't care if they take the photo for me, I don't care if they are mean. This is my city, and the city is a public place in itself. No one arguing if they were mean or not, We are talking about the right they have to stop someone from photographing a public place.

But this is what I argue for 4 pages, Solidere, our downtown, the place of our "History" is actually a private institution, which means if they want to they can ban you from going into it whenever they want .

^ WHICH IS NOT RIGHT.... TAKING A CITY AWAY FROM ITS INHABITANTS

ummmm.... yes, what is your point ?

"But this is what I argue for 4 pages, Solidere, our downtown, the place of our "History" is actually a private institution, which means if they want to they can ban you from going into it whenever they want . "

What I mean is that a private institute banning someone if they want from an area in Beirut is not right. The city is ours and they're taking it away...

OK we dont wanna drive this thread off subject... lets go back to the photography restrictions..

For that, I have an idea, lets ALL send an email to the ministry of tourism saying how this is bad for tourism, and bad for our image as LEbanese (bla bla bla) :P you know what to say, just please send an email ( even if they dont respond )

actually this is quite the opposite, private institutions are just that.... private, and they have the right to let you do things or not doing things. They are not public :P ....

Ofcourse it is not right, but this is why I am outraged... but it is within a private institution's full right to ban you from doing whatever they dont want you to do on their private property.

Sa7 el nom, hala2 w3eeto about why I am insane about this issue. Welcome to your Heritage, being whored out like a cheap prostitute, All that is missing is them charging you admission at the gate. I think this discussion is still relevant as to why there is photo restrictions.

YA jame3a it's totally understandable, we are a very unstable country, we don't have proper intelligence nor security, this is the Lebanese way of countering spies :P
Ba3den i rarely have incidents with the security/military i mean you can always lie your way out (a la libanaise) as i did many times in DT and recently in the museum. anno i thought of it from the security personnel POV, these areas are heavily monitored with cams all the time, if you are caught taking a zillion shots they will not understand why you are shooting the building from many angles, they will not care about your school or pet project, you are a security threat and the security personnel will have to answer to their superiors _what is this freak shooting? why didn't you interfere_. anno, You may be leaking photos (or modeling for the enemy :P) or you could be plotting to steal the golden chalice from the church masalan. For me these concerns are very understandable (ma3 inno nekou*a) sorry for not using proper english (yes, i have read the forum rules). Ba3d shaghleh, about the church, we all know that the frescoes are light sensitive, maybe the church officials were sick of telling people no flash allowed akid to no avail, not many have SLRs or Sony Exmore cams so flash is a must and ma tenso that you are dealing with law abiding Lebanese ma heik. Somma just imagine this scenario, two days after you took extensive pics of the parliament building and its surroundings, a massive explosion takes place claiming dozens of lives, you will be the primary suspect until further investigations reveal that the silicon boobs of the LBC news anchor were the cause of the explosion. :P Im too bored, w bass 7abbet 3abber 3an woojoodi in this forum :P
Briefly be discreet, be smart, pretend to be shooting your friends, play Homsi if you are questioned and LIE. MA3 inno we dont have to, because we live in a free and democratic country, a model for
ME countries to follow :P

ok i have to say here that security reasons are not a good answer to this problem!
i live outside lebanon and when i come every time i take lots of pics sometimes of beirut that i already have alot of pics of or DT but i want each time to take new ones so imagine u sayin lebanon is a touristic country and the europeans start coming then u come and tell them no sorry ur not allowed to take pictures?!!? they will think WTF i overcome my fear of visiting this country taht is always under threat of being in war and u tell me security reasons?!!?i mean seriously lebanon is very expensive to visit because you dont have good cheap packages the flight is expensive the hotel also the car to rent or taxis plus you have to pay alot for a beach visit if you want some good resort like oceana laguava edde sands...so for the tourist to compare he can go to two countries with the price of coming to leb and honbestly he isnt offered electricity 24/24h nor good streets nor people knowing how to drive on the streets without making you crazy nor signs of peace(tanks everwhere) nor clean streets nor green spaces ......sooooo?!let them take some pics!

^^ good point, but i seriously don't get why western tourists leave good reviews of lebanon most of the time, they seem to enjoy it here somehow!

maybe pics are not allowed for the exact reasons you said : "he isnt offered electricity 24/24h nor good streets nor people knowing how to drive on the streets without making you crazy nor signs of peace(tanks everwhere) nor clean streets nor green spaces "

Lol good 1 YM

the main issue with minet l hosn is the amount of politicians that live there... as for wadi abou jmil, the jewish synagogue is considered a target hence the security around, not to mention PM hariri's new residence. not very unusual, sadly.

if you're interested in taking photos you can simply request permission from the solidere head office, they have no problem allowing you to take photos as long as you seek their permission for a specific location and your name is given to on site security. as has been the case with me, you can sometimes talk a little with the security gentlemen and they may allow you to take a photo or two...