Rather than clog up threads that are only slightly linked to it (Central Village, Retail in Liverpool), I thought we should have a thread to discuss Renshaw Street, from the future of the Rapid buildings, traffic management, diversity of the offer, and anything else linked to this main thoroughfare.

From the Echo -

Campaign to turn Liverpool’s Renshaw Street into a conservation area

Nov 5 2009 by David Bartlett, Liverpool Echo
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A CAMPAIGN was launched to turn a busy city centre street into a special conservation area.

Merseyside Civic Society wants Liverpool council to give the status to Renshaw Street and some surrounding roads.

It is concerned the “architectural unity of this fine Liverpool street” will be destroyed after Rapid Hardware moved to the former George Henry Lee building, in Church Street.

Civic society chairman Dr Peter Brown said: “We are concerned the all-too-familiar pattern of random demolition and the installation of corporate plastic shop fronts might ensue, destroying the architectural unity of this fine Liverpool street.

“Renshaw Street itself is a unique example of a Liverpool street built in the city scale.

“The vacated buildings on the south side display a rare architectural unity and the Bold Street corner building, with its distinctive dome, is particularly important.”

Full article here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2009/11/05/campaign-to-turn-liverpool-s-renshaw-street-into-a-conservation-area-100252-25094575/

A couple of the Civic Society bods live just off Renshaw Street so have a vested interest in the appearance of Renshaw St and its surroundings. They seem genuinely decent and normal people - not fruit loops like our friend Mr Colquholn.

A couple of the Civic Society bods live just off Renshaw Street so have a vested interest in the appearance of Renshaw St and its surroundings. They seem genuinely decent and normal people - not fruit loops like our friend Mr Colquholn.

I like the idea of retaining the facade that rapid has. It would be interesting to retain each individual bay as a run of cafes and bars or small companies and retail. I would argue that perhaps an incision is made somewere to unlock the rear of the rapid buildings left by Central Village scheme.

Perhaps a stepped design to the rear of the existing facade that rapid has, providing some scale, heritage box is ticked, facade cleaned and retained and some buzz given back to this side of the street?

Will post some designs next week, does anyone have any facade images of a Rapid?

^^

If no one posts any then I'll nip around there and get some in the next day or two.

^^

If no one posts any then I'll nip around there and get some in the next day or two.

Great ok...; )

Great ok...; )

Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I too was thinking that, in the event the mooted demolition, it'd be a travesty not to retain the tower bit of the Rapid building and to perhaps open it up as viewing platform or summit.

It'd also serve well as part of a cool gateway into Central Village, perhaps as the central element framed by a large arch (or post and lintel rectangle).

A selection of photographs to show the varied nature of the architecture in and around Renshaw Street and to give a context to any future developments. Or at least that was my intention. :)

Michael, before you get started, I've got another 10 or 12 which I'll post in an hour or two.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4109/p1020382.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5487/p1020381d.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1425/p1020380a.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3577/p1020379.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7217/p1020383.jpg

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http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6049/p1020385x.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8139/p1020378mz.jpg

cool, thanks for the images, big help :)

I wish I could imagine what it can be used for. I can't imagine there is really the demand for a whole row of restaurants, cafes and bars there, let alone shops. But they are essentially shop premises, so I very much doubt if they are suitable for anything else without very expensive remodelling. But as what? The universities don't need them, they aren't suitable as offices, or hotels.... It's that classic Liverpool thing of just having too much stuff (in this case high quality buildings) to know what to do with.

Maybe they could just be demolished, with the fascias retained, flats behind, and the street level windows could be replaced with LED screens that would be a versatile and street-long art exhibit? This might provide a bit of a boost to the frankly dismal offering on the other side of the road....

Any other ideas? It would be awful to lose them.

Some more. A miserable grey day but they should help.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4900/p1020386l.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7479/p1020387t.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1125/p1020389v.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5889/p1020390w.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3584/p1020391t.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8286/p1020392kd.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/779/p1020393u.jpg

Last lot.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7030/p1020394d.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1746/p1020396g.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9394/p1020395z.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5218/p1020397w.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8730/p1020398a.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/749/p1020399q.jpg

A few thoughts on those photos -

- The Rapid Buildings, the tower element excepted don't actually do much for me. That's not to say I dislike them. Indifference is probably the right word. I appreciate this is a difficult site, mostly because of the way it narrows significantly towards the Berry Street end. As such, I wonder if there would be scope for demolishing the buildings closer to Lewis's, where enough land exists between them and Central Village to provide slightly taller buildings with larger floorplates that may lend themselves to uses that the current buildings do not (further hotels, offices, larger retail etc)? Towards the tower element, the buildings could be retained as they are more in keeping with the general scale of that area, and it is unlikely they could be replaced with anything better. This would reduce the volume of awkward buildings needing to be re-let, as well as making better use of the land available closer to Lewis's, and providing buildings more in-keeping with the scale of their neighbours.

- The Chicken Bazooka/Caesar's Palace building is quite nice. What would improve it no end though is if the tiling from Chicken Bazooka could be removed, so as to reveal the stonework beneath (assuming it still exists).

- The buildings on the side opposite Rapid seem to offer an interesting variety of styles. Clearly some are more interesting than others, but overall, it's a pleasing enough collection of buildings. Perhaps similar to the above point, it would be good if there could be a general tidy-up of the frontages. New or re-furbished signage, cleaning of stonework, re-painting where required etc. It's superficial, but it would make a big difference.

Assuming the hotel in the former Watson Building goes ahead, this sees the end of the standalone Rapid paintstore which will be a huge step.

The underused art installation between Dispensary and Zorba's needs an imposing landmark building and will improve the appearance of the approach from Berry Street. There are some limitations on heights of developments, 7 storeys, in the area outlined by the Oldham St SPD which might have an impact although they are only guidelines and being at the bottom of a steep hill might allow some wriggle room.

As Chris says much of the block between Benson and Oldham Streets needs some cosmetic work to improve its appearance.

The block from Heathfield St to Newington should be demolished, unless there are listing issues (GV ???:)) for a 5-7 storey building.

Critical to the success are the linkages from Bold St to Renshaw St so we are almost wholly reliant on Merepark, God help us.:ohno:

The main Rapid building, I am largely ambivalent about. It's pleasant enough but is it appropriate for the central location. I don't know.

A strict conservation area status is the only way to get rid of the ugly singage and advertising on these buildings.

For me the street is cluttered and theres too many contrasting shop frontages. Far too many advertising hoardings and banners and far too much street furniture clutter.

Apart from that the area has a lot of potential.

Lets enforce some conservation guidlines of what can go where and tidy the place up a bit. There needs to be a strategy where one bad egg of a shop or tennant, can't spoil the overall look by opting out. Hence conservation status in this case (and the strict rules that come into force) is warranted here.

I think conservation area status could prove to be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, if it brought about a general tidying up of the street in the ways you mention then that would obviously be a positive. However on the other hand, if it also meant that sites, such as the one between Newington and Heathfield that Joe and myself have both mentioned, were to be prevented from realising their true potential, then it wouldn't be so welcome.

Good pics Joe. Reading that first post it looks like the Civic Society are going to apply for "listed" status for the old Rapid building, which if successful would obviously effect any future development nearby. The block between Heathfield st and Newington is late 18c ,extensively remodelled with the corner block being about 1900. It isn't listed but if Renshaw st does get Conservation Area status there will be resistance to any demolition. The problem i have with redevelopment in streets like Renshaw st is we start to piecemeal infill,most of which is inferior to what is aleady there,Pembroke Place/London rd is a good example, the "restoration" of Monument Place a few years ago, an abomination, up on Pembroke Place there's a horrific, new 3 storey red-brick block. , the block on Hanover st opposite the Novotel. I mentioned Commutation Row and its replacement on the Central Station thread, it wasn't compare it with the Rapid Building but to highlight that even in the most "sacrosant" of places we ended up replacing an excellent block of Georgian/Victorian shops and pubs with a piece of cheap, "in keeping" tat. All a bit negative i know but unless something of real quality is proposed,not just bigger we might be better keeping what we have.

I agree the zorbas and site up to the post office and dispensary should be cleared and replaced with a mixed use building of shops, a few flats and multi tenure offices. The other buildings just need a good clean, tarting up and the Futurist restoring.

I know Heart and Soul who posts here intermittently knows a couple of MCS bods. If I see her, I'll try to get the lowdown on their intentions. :cheers:

Had a look in 69a for the first time in years when I was last home - it looks pretty good inside, with some nice palm plants.

It would be great if we got a few more local shops like this in the area.

I think the area needs be like Bold Street and offer something different from the rest of town.



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Last lot.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7030/p1020394d.jpg

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Now, no one can argue that thät building is a load of crap, surely? A new, good quality building here, at least the height of Lewis's, would really add something to the area.

Now, no one can argue that thät building is a load of crap, surely? A new, good quality building here, at least the height of Lewis's, would really add something to the area.

When it was built it was new and good quality.

I don't see any point in demolishing buildings that just need either a reclad or a lick of paint....every 30 odd years.

I'd pull out all the glazing and put in large modern glazing and just make it look a bit better. No need for a whole new building.

I am a bit torn about the Rapid building. Suitably adapted, it could hold a veritable maze of independant retailers. I'd happily house a bigger Quiggins style affair there. I can really see it working. It could encourage other retailers to buy up space opposite.

However, the other part of me thinks that Liverpool city centre should have no buildings in its city centre that are basically the same height as in the burbs

On balance, until I see what alternatives get proposed, I'll go for renovation over demolition.

Isn't Merepark :bash: supposed to be developing a hotel here utilising Watson Building?

I doubt we'll ever see it, but that was what they were promising.

Here is what is proposed by Merepark for the site of the former Rapid paint shop -

http://www.merepark.co.uk/img/gallery/dev_watson_03_large.jpg
Image from Merepark (http://www.merepark.co.uk/)

http://*************************/liverpool/jpgs/liverpool_hotels_woodsbagot120109_2.jpg
Image from e-architect (http://*************************/)

That's much, much better. At least in terms of scale.

As Merepark has signed an agreement with Millenium Copthorne hotels to develop two hotels on the site, I can't see what is holding up work starting here - unless it is trouble with the banks.

Despite the fact that Rapid is 2 storey's, they are 2 very tall storeys and the overall building height is probably similar to a modern 4 storey building (all apartments and no retail space), look at the first photo where it is only slightly smaller than the 3 storey Georgian building which no doubt has quite high ceilings.

Yes it is true that its still a lot smaller than Lewis's and other buildings in the city centre, and maybe we shouldn't have suburban retail scaled in the city centre, but whilst we still have large areas in the city centre which actually ARE suburbs (between Brownlow Hill and London Road, between Ropewalks and Baltic Triangle), I don't think replacing it is top priority.

Browlow hill would be my top priority, in terms of construction, at the moment it is pretty much empty, it feels 'out of the way' and indeed it is at the moment, but only because there is nothing on it, it should be an important artery linking to the University and also to the London Road area. It could and should equal Renshaw Street in terms of proportions, and at the moment is far behind.

I would blame the waste land that is Bronwlow Hill and the suburb there for the shortcomings the London Road area. It fails to connect that area to the rest of the city, which is bounded on the other side by a dual carriageway. The only strong connection that remains is with St. Georges Plaza. Work here is more vital than work in the Baltic Triangle and its suburb, in my opinion, becuase it already has a developed character, an anchor department store, a market, some apartments,student housing, pubs, music venues and the potential for a cinema. It is simply struggling to develop this character because of its weak links with the rest of the city.

Just scrub up Renshaw Street and Lime Street and try to reduce traffic to encourage people to walk down there and spend their pound, and focus on repopulating Brownlow Hill and the suburb there, to pull people away from the over-concentrated Church Street and L1 area.

Worry about demolishing buildings which have strong, active facades later.

Totally agree there crisis

Has anyone heard any news about development in the Oldham Street area? I know there have been several applications for sites within the SPD which will do much to regenerate the area but it has all gone so quiet

I heard a rumour that Rapid have sold all their shops to Grovesnor which if true would be fantastic as Grovesnor have a great design team, strong links with the planners and money to execute any new development

Also, to answer Joe/BBoy I have heard that Merepark have a number of their units let and are in the process of selling the investment to gain funding to build. Doubt we may ever see the resi towers getting built in their current form and wonder what impact their Irish partner has on the whole deal?

Welcome to the forum rubensaks :hi:

I heard a rumour that Rapid have sold all their shops to Grovesnor which if true would be fantastic as Grovesnor have a great design team, strong links with the planners and money to execute any new development

Grosvenor have indeed bought the Rapid buildings, but Rapid will continue to have use of them until the end of the year. It's also been reported that Grosvenor are working up plans which will be revealed in the new year.

Article from the Echo - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2009/08/20/liverpool-one-developer-grosvenor-buys-old-rapid-hardware-site-100252-24490295/ :)

Thanks for the welcome Chris and the Echo link.

I am sure Grovesnor will have something exciting to introduce to the area and probably a few users up their sleeve already. The obvious synergy is to merge/attach the sites into the central village scheme although I am interested to know what sort of uses they will put into the scheme. Must do some digging this week with regard to that.

When the announcements are made, it will be interesting to see what effect it will have to the sites on the other side of the road. This part of the city centre is the last area to be regenerated and is in much need of a facelift, and a positive announcement should wake up the landowners opposite (I hope)

Sorry to go off topic a bit, however I heard a rumour that Adagio have signed up in place of Millenium and Copthorne, not sure how true it is but thought I'd post it up anyway.

Adagio have definately signed into the scheme, the question is when or if it will ever be built?

Thanks for the confirmation!

Some design ideas for the area around Renshaw st....suggestions for the former Rapid site are welcome too ; )

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1542857/b56.jpg

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1542858/b56.jpg

You utter, utter bastard. What have you done with The Dispensary?? :rant:

Apart from that, good work!

I like the way you have managed the height differential on the corner of Leece and Renshaw.

You utter, utter bastard. What have you done with The Dispensary?? :rant:

Apart from that, good work!

Its still there lol, just very faint as its only represented as a translucent block....i think it would make quite a great contrast to keep the pub on the corner ; )

I like the way you have managed the height differential on the corner of Leece and Renshaw.

I just thought it was a good opportunity to create a new internal public space behind leece st with a stepped approach to the massing of the buildings. The views across the city for the commercial space this design would be intended for would be its main selling point ; )

I have just seen the new planning application from Tara House which sort of follows 2IC's visuals.

I think the combination of uses will be excellent in bringing life to this corner of the city and should kick start other developments looking to exploit the new foot traffic.... all very interesting!

Looks like there is a small clothes boutique called April opening in part of the former Rapid garden centre at the corner of Heathfield St.

It might be pretty ace if the Rapid buildings were a sort of giant permeable 'melting pot' that let you walk through into Central Village at multiple points, while themselves being a Santa's grotto (if you will) of small independents, and possibly even flea market booths that could be hired out for short terms (daily even?) and low rents - so that local 'talent' (photographers, artists, musicians, craftspeople, whatever) had an outlet.

Vaguely along the conceptual lines of http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8507703.stm

Perhaps with a bit of bar/cafe action as well. Then you walked through into Central Village itself. So like a giant random unpredictable Pleasance Courtyard/Quiggins/arty/eaty mashup. The good thing about the Rapid buildings (although doubtless it was bad from their POV) is that there are loads of levels, nooks and crannies, which make it quite interesting.

[end of poorly thought-out brain dump]

I have always thought it would work well in a similar way. It is also in the right end of town for independents.

Not quite Renshaw Street, but close enough, the planning application to -

erect mixed development of 2 no. hotels, 113 post graduate/student studio apartments, 247 space car park and retail unit at 4 - 14 Oldham Street

- is being recommended for approval subject to conditions and a legal agreement at next week's Planning Committee meeting.

http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=65991 (requires.pdf)

Chris, Is that just off Mt Pleasant, or further up towards 'The Dispenary'?

^^

I think it is the site of the red brick multi storey car park on the right as you go up Oldham St (back of the Dizzy) Big site that, if it is.

^^

Correct. It is the site of the red brick MSCP -

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sx0c8pgrjx07&scene=29159443&lvl=2&sty=b

Fuckinell. Isn't it built over tunnels? I hope something comes of that site. Hugely wasted opportunity.

For the record, the application referred to above was approved at yesterday's Planning Committee meeting.

I might be able to get a copy of the visuals used in the Council presentation. Will post them up as soon as my contact gets them to me.
V impressive front elevation which today's post is likening to the famous New York Flatiron building - small image is shown in the paper

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/buggedboy/flatiron.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj32/buggedboy/flatiron2.jpg

Now that is nice. When compared to what is going up at Kings Dock Mill, this is soo much better. It actually looks like someone designed the thing and bothered to spend a bit of cash on it.

I wish these buildings were getting built on the higher profile streets though, rather than the infill. Still, this is very welcome indeed.

They sound quite hopeful regarding start dates, though they have had years to start on site here, with different permissions. We'll have to wait and see I guess.

I reckon this one's now worthy of its own thread - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=56057747

From the Planning Explorer -

Application Number - 11F/1287
Site Address - 48 - 84 Renshaw Street Liverpool L1 2SJ
Proposal - To change use from A1 (shop) to mixed use A3, A4 and A5
Applicant - Mei-Mei Restaurant

From here - http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/PlanningExplorer17/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&PARAM0=787714&XSLT=/PlanningExplorer17/SiteFiles/Skins/Liverpool_M3/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=&DAURI=PLANNING

Looks like another few former Rapid units filled?

Ah Mei-Mei, currently of Berry Street. A Chinese lad I met reckoned it is the best Chinese restaurant in town. Good to see it expanding and Chinatown expanding as well really, what with the Chinese bakery also now on Renshaw.

Hmmm. Not too pleased if it's a relocation. Berry Street is on it's uppers as it is.

^^

The Design & Access Statement confirms it is a re-location, with the current restaurant having outgrown its current premises being the reason given.

From the Daily Post -

Liverpool’s Central Hall is reopened as a spectacular new 1,200-seat venue

A NEW performance space is set to open in a historic Liverpool city centre landmark.

The Dome is based in the Grade II listed Central Hall former Methodist church, in Renshaw Street.

The 1,200-seater venue is expected to host a mixture of live performance from touring bands to theatre, stand- up comedy and variety nights.

An open day will be held this Sunday where city promoters and festival organisers will be invited to look at the space and have the opportunity to chat to owners Jenny Davies and partner Sean Finnerty.

The pair already own the lease on the Barcelona Bar, on the ground floor of the building, and have now bought a 25-year lease on the upstairs venue, investing their life savings on its refurbishment.

Last night, director Mr Finnerty said: “This is a five-year dream come true for me.

“It was a crying shame to see this stunning venue decaying and not put to good use, and I was determined to do something about it.

“It took five years to secure the venue and work began a year ago. Along with the building owner, Jerry O’Brien, we’ve put in a lot of time, energy and investment to get it back into public use.”

The Dome will offer theatre-style seating on two levels, with 500 fixed circle seats and an option of 700 standing or 500 seating downstairs in the stalls.

It also has a huge working pipe organ, installed in 1907, which acts as a backdrop behind the main stage, as well as a hi-tech lighting and sound system, two bars, catering facilities and an in-house promotions and production team.

Article continues here - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/10/14/liverpool-s-central-hall-is-reopened-as-a-spectacular-new-1-200-seat-venue-92534-29592667/2/

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/10/14/liverpool-s-central-hall-is-reopened-as-a-spectacular-new-1-200-seat-venue-92534-29592667/2/

Fair play to 'em, that looks great. Look forward to seeing it.

I understand that it is open to the public - on Sunday - to have a look around.

Great news,and opening right on the back of Eric's and the old Neptune theatre as well.:cheers:

Frenson has applied for permission to demolish what is left of the building adjacent to The Dispensary on Renshaw Street. Unfortunately, as there is a surface car park behind this building, masked by a façade which extends beyond what remains of the building, I'm assuming this is just to create more car parking space, which with the façade gone, will become visible from Renshaw Street.

From the Echo -

Liverpool city centre alcohol zone for street boozers sparks anger

THE ECHO can today reveal plans for a designated zone for street drinkers in Liverpool city centre.

The so-called “wet facility” is being set up on a derelict piece of land in a bid to entice drinkers off the streets to improve the city centre ambience.

But the plan has sparked anger among businesses in the Renshaw Street area where the zone is being planned.

The Friends of Renshaw Street business group said it only discovered the plan after a conversation was overheard on a bus.

The council plans to introduce the facility on a derelict piece of land next to Zorbas Greek restaurant at the corner of Renshaw Street and Leece Street.

The entrance will be via Back Renshaw Street.

A marquee will be erected and drinkers will be encouraged to use the facility between 10am and 8pm – the hours when the council says most drinkers are on the streets.

Liverpool council, which owns the land, said alcohol abuse professionals would be based at the site to offer help. It is understood that plans to place the booze zone in the gardens of nearby St Luke’s Church (the bombed out church) were abandoned after resistance from local residents.

The council said an initial trial would start on Thursday for a month.

Article continues here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2012/08/28/liverpool-city-centre-alcohol-zone-for-street-boozers-sparks-anger-100252-31709411/

Oh wow, I can see that going wrong.. they are assuming that happy go lucky drunkards with stay in a confined area? I think not!

They do tend to congrgate though. Usually around the bombed out church. Giving them a marquee to keep the rain off might give them a reason to go there, as well as the promise of basically being left to it, instead of being hassled by coppers.

Reckon the Offy on Leece St will have a walk-through now, allowing them to sell booze direct to the tramps on their own turf? Also, has anyone thought of the knock-on effects this will have on two of Liverpool's best pubs that bookend the site in question?

Will the council provide portaloos on site, or will the tramps be expected to use the walls of adjacent properties, or sneak into licensed premises without paying for their wares?

Also, with the old Solna hotel on Sefton Park applying for permission to be used as an alcohol addiction centre, why not allow them free reign of their gardens instead to they can encourage treatment on their doorstep?

I think the idea is worth trialling for a month, but the location is far from ideal. Next to the Penny Farthing would be better than next to the Dispensary.

Next to the Penny Farthing would be better than next to the Dispensary.

What, so that all the visitors leaving Lime Street are greeted by a load of drunks?

Is it going to be like the Kazimier garden?

sounds fun, it was even on the mail website today, :cheers:

A load of old scruffs bevying on some waste ground in the city centre sounds like a boss idea for a kick off:cheers: Wait till the kids go down there to see whats happening.

Next to the Penny Farthing would be better than next to the Dispensary.

I always thought that the Penny Farthing itself was a designated area for alkies.