We need to come up with ideas on what Tampa needs once the economy returns. If it's 6 months from now or 3 more years, once the economy starts flowing in the right direction, we need to be ready. It can be anything and everything. From retail to hotels and companies.

I'll start off.

Tampa needs a Apple store. And not just a Apple store, but one of them fancy ones.

We need to come up with ideas on what Tampa needs once the economy returns. If it's 6 months from now or 3 more years, once the economy starts flowing in the right direction, we need to be ready. It can be anything and everything. From retail to hotels and companies.

I'll start off.

Tampa needs a Apple store. And not just a Apple store, but one of them fancy ones.

Like the one in Boston and New York.

Transit, transit, transit. That and a first class hotel like a Ritz or Four Seasons.

Steve

Tampa needs to build the light rail system it's proposing. Tampa also needs to control suburban sprawl and focus on increasing its density within the city limits.

They really need to fill in empty blocks in the core and high density areas.

We need to come up with ideas on what Tampa needs once the economy returns. If it's 6 months from now or 3 more years, once the economy starts flowing in the right direction, we need to be ready. It can be anything and everything. From retail to hotels and companies.

I'll start off.

Tampa needs a Apple store. And not just a Apple store, but one of them fancy ones.


Holy crap they get fancier? I went to the one at International and was intimidated, it was big everything was white, there was a 4 hour wait to get help with an iphone, The employees had wings, they rode around on clouds. one of them touched me on the forehead, I left the store crying,... but my cold was gone.

Light rail! Light rail! Light rail! And the accompanying TODs.

The companies will come. Would love to see more or better branding for the whole metro area. It needs to generate some excitement about itself. Comparable cities/metros are beating Tampa Bay in their ability to generate buzz.

Would like to see another high-profile retail/mixed-use development like that one proposed for the Westshore area -- bring some new, upscale retail establishments to the area.

The city/metro also needs a 5-star hotel, or two.

Holy crap they get fancier? I went to the one at International and was intimidated, it was big everything was white, there was a 4 hour wait to get help with an iphone, The employees had wings, they rode around on clouds. one of them touched me on the forehead, I left the store crying,... but my cold was gone.
Sadly, I didn't even realize there was one at International Plaza.

Even if there is one there, a independent store would be nice aswell. Like Chicago's Apple store would be a nice example for what I imagine. Something like NYC seems too much for Tampa and can't see Apple spending the amount of money to build that somewhere like Tampa. Imagine Chicago's Apple Store in Tampa, with all the products on the first floor, coffee shop on second, and open roof with green garden and seating for customers.

Chicago Apple Store
http://www.macbillboard.com/pictures_billboards/0032.jpg

I agree with the 5-Star Hotel. Be nice to maybe get Four Seasons to come back and propose something further north, maybe across I-275 to hopefully avoid some height limits. I emailed a hotel chain a couple months back, but got the response of Tampa being looked over a couple times and are interested in the Miami/Orlando area first. Which I agree about Miami, but think the Orlando market seems drained from all the hotels in the area. Or maybe a Mandarin Oriental.

http://www.geekforcefive.com/images/uploads/apple-store_boston_boylston-street.jpg


This is the Boston Apple Store. I really like it.

Something like that would work on the side of the Kress building. Something like what I posted would do better in Channelside,

This is Apple's most prominent store here in Miami. This one is on Lincoln Road in South Beach.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2413940057_1396b5c181.jpg

I could see a 4-5 star hotel coming in the next up turn. We almost had a Ritz, Four Seasons, and a W (IIRC). I would most like to see any of these brands open a tower in the DT area, or even Ybor. I could actually see one picking up the Trump site for a bargain.

An Apple store would be cool too, the one in International is a big step up from the Brandon one. Maybe in the Channelside area.

I would also love to get an H&M store, likely in International, but Chanelside or even Ybor would be cool.

Steve

More national/international exposure, a vibrant downtown, light rail and at least a 600-700 footer!!! :yes:

More national/international exposure, a vibrant downtown, light rail and at least a 600-700 footer!!! :yes:
Yeah, a 700 footer would be nice in Tampa. Shame that POA is still around though.

And I'm still waiting for our Hard Rock Cafe :)

A 700 foot tower would be nice, but density and a good street scene are what make a city. I would like more retail and restaurants in the DT core. This of course is dependent on more residents, which should come in the next economic expansion.

At least we can check off a grocery store in DT finally.

Steve

Sadly, I didn't even realize there was one at International Plaza.

It's one of the older Apple stores actually (and was just closed for a while to completely rehab). It opened with the mall in 2001. Brandon has a store too.

Why don't we have a hard rock cafe? Ybor is a perfect spot for one. Hell Even the HARD ROCK HOTEL is a good spot for one. I don't understand that.

Do we mean Tampa or the entire metro in this thread?

Do we mean Tampa or the entire metro in this thread?
I just wanted to keep it with Tampa. I thought if we added St. Petersburg and Clearwater to it, it would get too confusing. Maybe if we made seperate threads, with moderators approval, it would seem more organized.

One of the things I do is send out emails to businesses not in Tampa. Either national retailers or local retailers and restaurants located in a fairly large city and just promote Tampa and why Tampa would be a good investment.

Density, Denisty, Density in the Urban Core(Downtown Proper). Build out Channelside like Harbour Island is now fully developed, Central Park area, Ybor City(Maintain its unique character), Downtown Proper..build these areas up big time....and leave surrounding areas like Tampa Heights, Hyde Park, West Tampa, Seminole Heights, Davis Islands, etc... to be those awesome little neighbohoods just outside the 'big urban city'. Bring the Rays to downtown Tampa off I-4/I-275 junction area. Mass Transit..more busses, light rail, conveinient times and routes.

Density, Denisty, Density in the Urban Core(Downtown Proper). Build out Channelside like Harbour Island is now fully developed, Central Park area, Ybor City(Maintain its unique character), Downtown Proper..build these areas up big time....and leave surrounding areas like Tampa Heights, Hyde Park, West Tampa, Seminole Heights, Davis Islands, etc... to be those awesome little neighbohoods just outside the 'big urban city'. Bring the Rays to downtown Tampa off I-4/I-275 junction area. Mass Transit..more busses, light rail, conveinient times and routes.

I agree with all this..Plus..Encourage a more active riverwalk with scenic dining along the way, etc.. move the cruise terminal by Channelside and open that up to a Promenade with restaurants and shops facing the channel...Move the cruise terminals to the Ybor channel, mainly on the east side...the west side can be a public marina with more green space and shops...I'd like to see a signature pedestrian bridge from the Cultural district to UT...a central park with a rather large greenspace with plenty of trees and a few ponds in the area bordering Meridian...Sulpher Springs needs to be completely overhauled(hopefully it will improve the whole neighborhood)...a whole new development along a riverside Botanical Garden.......Fletcher(specifically between FL and 56th) needs to be redeveloped into a pedestrian-friendly corridor....Fowler needs raised reversable lanes down the median....More Streetscaping all over town, more of an urban forest feel around town..more water features and tastful sculptures around town...An expressway or BLVD needs to link New Tampa to Van Dyke Rd Area...move the fairgrounds to south county and redevelop that area into entertainment/retail/dining..that's all for now

All we need is one thing, and the rest will fall into place, it doesn't cost a penny, it will completely change the way people look at this city, but yet a big chunk of or residents refuse it, can anyone guess what it is?

All we need is one thing, and the rest will fall into place, it doesn't cost a penny, it will completely change the way people look at this city, but yet a big chunk of or residents refuse it, can anyone guess what it is?
Get that big chunk of residents to move their asses elsewhere? lol

lol, nah, although that might have the same effect.

CIVIC PRIDE!, we need more people to be proud of Tampa and proud of the fact they stay here or are from here.

lol, nah, although that might have the same effect.

CIVIC PRIDE!, we need more people to be proud of Tampa and proud of the fact they stay here or are from here.
But at the same time, there goes a big chunk of our tax revenue.

I agree. Look at all the Civic Pride going on for World Cup bid. Oh wait, there isn't much. I bet you if we were in the running for the Olympics and had a big screen at Curtis Hixon Park to watch the announcement, 7 people would come lol

Tampa needs quite a bit but first off it needs a mass transit system from Ybor to the Airport with a ready connection to go across the bay. Next downtown needs to be filled in, the parking lots and empty lots galore look terrible and are a turn off for the city. Next are the roads... I-275 needs to finish the expansion, I think an outer loop highway should be constructed in Lutz from the Vets Expressway to I-75 and build an expandable interchange for a future highway eastbound. at the same time Dale Mabry should get US 19 type overpasses from Columbus Ave to W Bears Ave, I think since its such a major N/S road this would help traffic big time. This is more like a dream but the crosstown could be expanded south and a bridge be built connecting South Tampa to the future suburbia of Tampa, once that area starts to build up they will all use I-75. That is why I mention a north outer loop and the bridge connecting Tampa to Riverview, etc. Cars will always be the main mode of transport and Tampa needs to wake up and realize the need for more highways or we will suffer the day everybody will be taking terrible artery roads and only one highway really to commute. Lastly Tampa needs to attract decent jobs, I know I will leave this metro for better opportunities elsewhere as many college students will, Tampa needs to try and work on attracting young people.

The city needs to come up with a deal with Peter O'Knight to get them to close it down. Destroy the airport, exapnd the marina, and build some luxury condo building there or just extra homes. The airport just needs to go and someone needs to come up with actual data and proof to prove how much $$$ Tampa has lost from developments not happening and how much Tampa would had earn if they were built. I think once the city reviews the info, they'll get the ball moving.

They should also move some of that industrial stuff at the Port of Ybor. I know we all one day want a channel walk. How about a Maritime Museum about the Port's importance and history? I mean they have done work on some pretty crazy ships there.

lol, nah, although that might have the same effect.

CIVIC PRIDE!, we need more people to be proud of Tampa and proud of the fact they stay here or are from here.

Gotta agree.

Compared to peer cities, Tampa lacks civic pride and effective branding. It doesn't seem to generate much excitement about itself, IMO.

From my experience, outsiders tend to be more impressed than residents.

More on what Tampa needs...

I think it needs a few "it" urban neighborhoods for young singles and the young-at-heart, as well as young families that prefer urban to suburban. Channelside and Ybor are on their way. Maybe Tampa Heights, Sulfur Springs and the Kennedy Blvd corridor will become attractive, too.

Get that big chunk of residents to move their asses elsewhere? lol

I like that idea.

Gotta agree.

Compared to peer cities, Tampa lacks civic pride and effective branding. It doesn't seem to generate much excitement about itself, IMO.

From my experience, outsiders tend to be more impressed than residents.

More on what Tampa needs...

I think it needs a few "it" urban neighborhoods for young singles and the young-at-heart, as well as young families that prefer urban to suburban. Channelside and Ybor are on their way. Maybe Tampa Heights, Sulfur Springs and the Kennedy Blvd corridor will become attractive, too.

What you say is true. When I lived in Raleigh, NC, every night on the news they would have some story to showcase how great Raleigh is and how so many people want to move there etc. I don't see that in Tampa. I was impressed with Tampa until I had lived here a couple of years. Part of me wants to get out and then the other part of me just wants to stay. :banana:

^^ I'm the same way I wanna leave but I dunno. There are lots of pluses to living here aside from the Built Environment.

just to add to my list....many outdated roads need to be upgraded with the works(medians, streetscaping, etc.), Sligh, Armenia up to Busch, Waters, Columbus, parts of Nebraska, Fletcher(i mentioned earlier), parts of Florida...these roads look too ghetto right now...

Our roads seriously need some work on. Kennedy needs to be the first priority in my opinion.

Maybe the city can get in contact with Gordon Ramsay and Hells Kitchen to open a estaurant here.

Going to Orlando its just crazy how they are progressing and we are barely moving.

Going to Orlando its just crazy how they are progressing and we are barely moving.

Lol I dunno bout that. I wouldn't walk around Orlando, way too dangerous.

Lol I dunno bout that. I wouldn't walk around Orlando, way too dangerous.

Cities go threw fazes, Orlando is hitting its ruff patch right now with crime, Tampa was far worse pretty much until like 06 -07.

and now it seems like the city might be getting back to its old ways, since veterans day like 6 people have been shot, 3 murdered, 1 in critical condition, and a cop has been shot at.

Still with all that, its still unlikely a violent crime is going to happen to you or me,... or anyone else on here or in the city. Theres maybe a 1 in 110,000 chance you'll get murdered here, even less considering I'm going to assume your not a dealer or into drugs period.

None of the murders in Tampa or Orlando are random, it's usually people who put themselves in that situation.

Cities go threw fazes, Orlando is hitting its ruff patch right now with crime, Tampa was far worse pretty much until like 06 -07.

and now it seems like the city might be getting back to its old ways, since veterans day like 6 people have been shot, 3 murdered, 1 in critical condition, and a cop has been shot at.

Still with all that, its still unlikely a violent crime is going to happen to you or me,... or anyone else on here or in the city. Theres maybe a 1 in 110,000 chance you'll get murdered here, even less considering I'm going to assume your not a dealer or into drugs period.

None of the murders in Tampa or Orlando are random, it's usually people who put themselves in that situation.

My bro lives in Orlando, he said the cops will not go to certain parts of the city period. I could drive through the roughest neighborhood in Tampa and see a cop atleast once. My ex girlfriend goes to UCF, and has friends who have been robbed and know people who are constantly getting robbed out there. If you heard of some of the warnings they dispatch at UCF campus its insane. And just amazing that there are that many bat s**t crazy people.

Armenia is a top candidate for improvement priority IMO..... it's still two lane between Sligh and Busch. That road is a major N-S corridor. It probably gets a lot more traffic than 40th street( Hills. to Busch). It's lined with businesses and very active. The main problem there is that the road condidition is pathetic.

Future Tampa Skyline?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/3734254850_a25c914512_b.jpg

How long would this take for Tampa? 50 years?

Future Tampa Skyline?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/3734254850_a25c914512_b.jpg

How long would this take for Tampa? 50 years?

When Tampa becomes part of China. Haha I don't think Tampa will get that big anytime soon. I really doubt it'll ever look like that

I have this idea that Tampa could start-up and could be a idea that would spread to other cities. Since inner-city gardens are becoming more popular, what if we had low-rises that were like greenhouses? 3-4 story glass building, climate-controlled, heating lamps if needed, and areas to plant whatever anyone wanted. Could charge $15 a "box" and plant tomatoes or green peppers. And doesn't need to be a yearly contract thing, but people can pre-pay if they want. Of course there will be rules on what can be planted, in case boxes are neglected, and so on. But it will be close to comfort and could be helpful to some who are kind of on a budget.

I think those community gardens are unattractive and unnecessary. There's plenty of gardening space around the area, and not enough urban dwellers who would jump to buy a "box." What Tampa needs is a stronger business community. All it takes is one large player in an industry, and the city instantly gains business travelers and can grow, perhaps as a niche city for that industry. With any luck, that business would build a nice 1000 footer right in downtown.

I think those community gardens are unattractive and unnecessary. There's plenty of gardening space around the area, and not enough urban dwellers who would jump to buy a "box." What Tampa needs is a stronger business community. All it takes is one large player in an industry, and the city instantly gains business travelers and can grow, perhaps as a niche city for that industry. With any luck, that business would build a nice 1000 footer right in downtown.
I hardly believe that a business/company would put forward all that money to build a 1000 footer. Maybe if it was 5-6, but that is a large maybe. I'm still keeping up with the Radio Shack rumors. Greensboro announced they were also on the list for possible relocation of their headquarters. I'm hoping there is some back door negotiations going on, but who knows.

1000 footer DT is not going to happen unless Peter O' Knight is closed. Even then it is a long shot. I still contend that street interaction and density are more important than height. I would rather have three 300 foot buildings with great street interaction than one 1000. But that might just be me.

Steve

Tampa needs gargantuan shopping malls. Tampa needs hundreds of skyscrapers and supertalls all being built at once. Tampa needs palm shaped islands filled with multimillion-dollar villas. Tampa needs indoor skiing. Tampa needs...Dubai.

LOL, in some other universe maybe, but not on this planet will Tampa ever be like Dubai.

I actually wouldn't mind the indoor ski slope. Orlando doesn't have one, Miami neither, and I'm pretty sure no one in the Southeast does. Would work great in a place you rarely get snow.

LOL, in some other universe maybe, but not on this planet will Tampa ever be like Dubai.

I actually wouldn't mind the indoor ski slope. Orlando doesn't have one, Miami neither, and I'm pretty sure no one in the Southeast does. Would work great in a place you rarely get snow.
I agree it would really be a plus for us.

1000 footer DT is not going to happen unless Peter O' Knight is closed. Even then it is a long shot. I still contend that street interaction and density are more important than height. I would rather have three 300 foot buildings with great street interaction than one 1000. But that might just be me.

Steve

I agree 100% with this. Street level interaction is a million times more important than a skyscraper. What's important is the city life below, not what's isolated above.

Tampa needs gargantuan shopping malls. Tampa needs hundreds of skyscrapers and supertalls all being built at once. Tampa needs palm shaped islands filled with multimillion-dollar villas. Tampa needs indoor skiing. Tampa needs...Dubai.

:lol:

seriously, if you'd prefer a thousand footer to a dozen 100' buildings, you're clearly not an urbanist.

ofcourse street interaction is a must, and tampa desperately needs some, however the skyscraper is an expression of the power of its owner and I think tampa could use the impressive magnitude of a skyscraper that is a symbol of the successful company behind it. something intimidating.

ofcourse street interaction is a must, and tampa desperately needs some, however the skyscraper is an expression of the power of its owner and I think tampa could use the impressive magnitude of a skyscraper that is a symbol of the successful company behind it. something intimidating.

I agree. A big tower says something about a city...at least in my opinion it does.

but what you're essentially talking about is the equivalent of dick measuring, but on multi-million dollar terms. are such assertions of power actually meaningful in constituting a healthy urban environment?

to be a devil's advocate, even the most tastefully designed supertall poses a number of morphological (experiential) challenges (such as daylight issues -- and, in hurricane-prone Florida, safety concerns). more abstractly, it's also important to consider the types of social and economic circumstances in which towers like this are built; they're not accidental. might those resources -- which are often not entirely private -- be channeled into a more democratic/accessible feature for the urban environment?

in case you haven't noticed, i'm asking particularly tough questions to which there are no easy answers, because i think tampans need to be asking these questions of the planning and development process in order to meaningfully think critically about how their ambitions for the city may, in unintended ways, result in urban spaces that aren't nearly as fulfilling as promised in theory.

... that was a terribly long sentence. i hope it's legible.

I agree. A big tower says something about a city...at least in my opinion it does.

certainly it does. but at what point, if any, are these expressions useful to the city beyond a superficial level?

this critique i'm posing is probably too rooted in leftist ways of seeing to really go anywhere, at least in the context of this discussion.

after all, for all that they represent (good and bad), the skyscrapers of new york do have an undeniable allure with which any urban center would, given the imperatives of capitalism, aspire to secure. it's logical in that sense.

yeah, thats what I was looking for, maxim, like New York, the feeling you get looking at the towers in New York, that is also, ironically, the only place I can think of that had a skyscraper development that was not private in the world trade center, as you alluded to. I can't think of any others, in America, anyhow. (public development, for private use) as you may know, had the wtc been private, the reconstruction would likely have been completed by now. and some side news, today supposedly Silverstein has been warded some liberty bonds, not too many official details but should be debt worth 2.6 billion dollars, perhaps 2 and 3 wtc can begin soon.

We need to work on filling up most of our spaces before working on a 1000 footer. And I'm not really worried about a 1000 footer when we don't even have a 700 footer.

yeah, thats what I was looking for, maxim, like New York, the feeling you get looking at the towers in New York, that is also, ironically, the only place I can think of that had a skyscraper development that was not private in the world trade center, as you alluded to. I can't think of any others, in America, anyhow. (public development, for private use) as you may know, had the wtc been private, the reconstruction would likely have been completed by now. and some side news, today supposedly Silverstein has been warded some liberty bonds, not too many official details but should be debt worth 2.6 billion dollars, perhaps 2 and 3 wtc can begin soon.

yes, in some cases, towers are explicitly funded using public funds, but i was also speaking to the subsidizes the public often gives to private/corporate interests, ranging in scale and quite well documented. this is a particularly significant problem in florida.

We need to work on filling up most of our spaces before working on a 1000 footer. And I'm not really worried about a 1000 footer when we don't even have a 700 footer.

We haven't even crossed the 600' threshold yet. :ohno:

A super tall is worthless if you don't have people to fill it. TTT failed because there were nowhere near as many deep pocketed people in the Bay area as they thought and there weren't that many interested in even relocating or investing in it. Generally the upper levels are the residential levels and charge an extreme premium per square foot, numbers unheard of here even during the worst excesses of the bubble. I hate to say it but the Bay area isn't setting the world on fire attracting the mega rich. Most of the $50m. people I've worked with have either bought further south in Naples(because they are old and just want to hang out in Tommy Bahama shirts and drink $100 bottles of chardonay) or Miami (because they are young and want sweaty sex with tan people who only eat celery). So that market is not going to materialize.

Most of the supertalls have substantial commerical in them as well, so where are you going to park all those cars for the worker bees who can't afford the cost of the DT area? What CEO of a publicly trade company is going to throw money at a "my crank is biggest" edifice? What CEO of a private company is going to risk his personal fortune in such a thing?

Its not going to happen, besides there is something to be said about urban development of a more human scale that works for everyone and not just a few. DC is the best example stateside, London overseas is great too.

(because they are young and want sweaty sex with tan people who only eat celery).

Man, that cracks me up!


Stev

Man, that cracks me up!


Stev

Yeah, I loved that part...the only problem is, isn't Miami one of the most obese cities out there??? :banana:

Just a up in the air question here. How much do you guys think TBPAC would be willing to partially fund a pedestrian bridge connecting to expanded Riverwalk to Julian B. Lane Riverfront Park? If the city could fund some money and get some state or federal fund to fund the rest.

I was actually going to suggest University of Tampa, but don't know if they would fund a bridge off of their campus, even if it did have their name on it. TBPAC would seem like a better suggestion since it would be right next to their place.

A monumental pedestrian bridge isn't a needed thing for every city, but something many admire. I did a little research and found some info on pedestrian bridges. the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge that connects Omaha to Council Bluffs cost $22 million to construct. The reason for the name, the former Senator Bob Kerrey secured federal funding for the bridge. How much? $18 million. If the city is able to secure $4 million, TBPAC puts up a $3 million donation, and we recieve the same amount of funding that the Bob kerrey bridge recieved; we could be able to fund a top-notch bridge like the Bob Kerrey one.

Why bother? The Laurel St bridge already does that and has wide pedestrian areas on both sides.

i like the idea of signature pedestrian bridge ....however the only useful direction would probably be from curtis hixon park to UT and connect to a West Bank riverwalk

I was thinking about that exact thought, but wondered if it would be a security issue to have a connection on to the campus. I know you can get on the grounds by Kennedy easily, but a bridge to the campus directly would seem inviting for anyone to walk on the campus. If the university is able to handle it and if it is possibility, then do it. I just don't see it working with such security risks that could be found in it.

Once Curtis Hixon is completed, I would like to see Tampa start up a annual music festival of some sort at the park. Get some big names while having some local bands play as well. Many cities have a music festival and Tampa could be a nice location for a Fall music festival in front of MofA and Glazer's Children Museum.

^^^Like the music festival idea. I love NYC's Summer Stages series in Central Park. There's always some big names, a variety of types of shows (music concerts, dance, poetry), and it was FREE -- well, they requested a donation at entrance, but there was no set price. Would be cool to see something like that, on a smaller scale, throughout September and/or October in Tampa.

They could even do it where they have more family-oriented music and activities during the day and then move it to more PG-13 and R material later in the evening to advertise to many of the population. UT also has their band and could put out some stuff at the festival. And we could have restaurants like Five Guys and others to set up booths like they have at some festivals to serve food and beverages. And then have alcohol served at 5 pm after most of the kids are out of the place.

Future Tampa Skyline?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2600/3734254850_a25c914512_b.jpg

How long would this take for Tampa? 50 years?

What city is this?

Tampa needs gargantuan shopping malls. Tampa needs hundreds of skyscrapers and supertalls all being built at once. Tampa needs palm shaped islands filled with multimillion-dollar villas. Tampa needs indoor skiing. Tampa needs...Dubai.

They need to strike oil in the bay or the Gulf of Mexico for that to happen.

Hopefully the state does allow for off-shore drilling in Florida. Here in my county, Pasco County, I have proposed off-shore drilling off our shore. We don't really have any beaches and what beaches do exist lack major time compared to Clearwater, Ft. Desoto, and even Howard Park in Tarpon Springs. Off-shore drilling would bring much needed money in to this county if allowed. And the thing is, oil is going to be needed for a long time for now. So even if it is regulated and such, it's still going to be used by drivers, homeowners, and companies. So to say we don't need it because we're switching to green energy is a defeated argument.

The Skyline Shot is of Melbourne, Australia. It has some similarities with Tampa (things Tampa could possibly learn from). ie: Small downtown river(great riverwalk scene), bayfront, port district ( cool redevelopment happening there)....It has a similar population however, it's a much more important city to it's State than Tampa is to Florida. Plus Tampa has a competing skyline in the bay area to deal with...Anyway, Melbourne is a cool looking city with lots of rail transit and great architecture...

BTW, drilling off the coast of Florida would be a major mistake....and this is coming from a Republican!

When Tampa becomes part of China. Haha I don't think Tampa will get that big anytime soon. I really doubt it'll ever look like that

I think something like this is quite possible for Tampa in under 50 years. Look at how fast Atlantas skyline shot up. (referring to the picture of Melbourne above)

BTW, drilling off the coast of Florida would be a major mistake....and this is coming from a Republican!
Don't mean to hijack the thread, even though its mine lol, but can you explain why? From what I have read, the pros outweight the cons on the issue. But I'm always open to learning more.

Do I think Tampa could become a Melbourne? It's always a possibility. But at the same time, Tampa will need to do a lot to reach to such a level. I'm talking about atleast 2 corporate headquarters, lots of private funding, serious improvement on all our transportation, and a lot of investment on pretty much everything in Tampa, espicially our port. Melbourne has done a great job of keeping the port so close to the city, but at the same time it is far enough to not interfere in growth. And Melbourne has also benefited with many large sporting events, including the 1956 Summer Olympics.

I must say, Melbourne has done a great job on developing many parks and green spaces. Their whole riverfront is filled with parks and golf courses. It would be like filling up the whole riverfront from University of Tampa to the Sulphur Springs Water Tower with parks.

I must say, Melbourne has done a great job on developing many parks and green spaces. Their whole riverfront is filled with parks and golf courses. It would be like filling up the whole riverfront from University of Tampa to the Sulphur Springs Water Tower with parks.

That would be awesome to have a "safe" trail from Downtown to Sulpher Springs (hopefully, future home to a botanical garden and major redevelopent). When the trail hits private residential waterfront it could perhaps bridge over to the other side...

Something else cool about Melbourne is that many of the alleys are pedestrian corridors filled with cafes and small shops...

Melbourne has 4 Million inhabitants with a lot of condos and established shopping and culture downtown. A city like that can pull off much more development and also can achieve the critical mass when it comes to attracting customers to newly developed areas.

Tampa needs to focus more on developing downtown than it did in the past. A lot has been achieved compared to 15 years ago, but there is still a long way to go.

In my opinion, Tampa needs light rail, an intermodal transportation center, a symphony hall downtown, more condos, more shopping, and, incorporated into the developments should be several reconstructions of historic buildings (e.g. court house) to create something like a gas light district between city hall and the old post office.

Edinburgh had the same thing with alleys being turned into pedestrian corridors. Most of the bars and Pubs were in there while the more family-oriented places were along the main streets.

Something else cool about Melbourne is that many of the alleys are pedestrian corridors filled with cafes and small shops...

Centre Place - Melbourne CBD
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/4208260538_2f83a7e940_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2058/1706601738_ff537940d5_b.jpg

Melbourne has 4 Million inhabitants with a lot of condos and established shopping and culture downtown. A city like that can pull off much more development and also can achieve the critical mass when it comes to attracting customers to newly developed areas.

Tampa needs to focus more on developing downtown than it did in the past. A lot has been achieved compared to 15 years ago, but there is still a long way to go.

In my opinion, Tampa needs light rail, an intermodal transportation center, a symphony hall downtown, more condos, more shopping, and, incorporated into the developments should be several reconstructions of historic buildings (e.g. court house) to create something like a gas light district between city hall and the old post office.

You have to remember that in many aspects like shopping/retail, arts and culture, food and major/sporting events, Melbourne is the most important or largest market in Australia so comparing Tampa to it, although they have similar populations, is a little unfair on Tampa as it has to compete with a much larger number of important cities in the US.

So in Australia it's really just Sydney and Melbourne that are considered big cities with Sydney only about 400K larger in population. With Melbourne currently growing at around 90-100,000 people per year it's easily the fastest growing city in Australia. So much so that with 15 years or so it could overtake Sydney to become our largest city again.

Tampa has way too much competition in-state and regionally to grow an expansive skyline quickly. Corporate relocations and other expansions will look at OTown, Miami, Jax, (St.Pete even competes), W Palm, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.

Tampa will probably never be at the same level as Melbourne, simultaneously. However, I think Melbourne is a great city to learn from. Look at their riverfront interactions and uses, their Docklands projects, their park lands, their rail transit, their alley/pedestrian corridors, etc

BTW, It's great to have a Melbourne resident chime in...Thanks

^^Here are some of my pics of what you've just mentioned

Yarra River and CBD
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3036/2852018395_da4ce5481e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2852853878_d78dd8400b_b.jpg

Federation Wharf - just 4 years ago these old vaults by the Yarra River were derelict and being used by squatters as housing. Now it's a vibrant area with micro breweries and cafes.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/3999708751_c86ba80a6c_b.jpg

Federation Wharf
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2852017303_7fa3574e6e_b.jpg

Melbourne Docklands Renewal
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/2982750661_095f527bba_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3490/4059296559_8f9d8c6492_b.jpg

That's awesome stuff!!! It would be great to turn our Ybor Channel into a marina/ redevelopment area and move the industrial uses south. We could have residential/entertainment/dining/sports stadium in that whole area.

The pedestrian bridge looks very modern and trendy...

Thanks for insight.

You can't discount public marinas enough. Both Tampa and St. Pete ought to be doing more to encourage them whenever possible. The areas immediately adjacent to the Channelside (save the cruise port) from say E. York north could be re-habed into a marina, moving the "dirty" portions further south to the port proper it could invigorate the area. Tampa ought to try and avoid throwing away public money on the trend du jour. Water Taxis, pedestrian bridges, etc., sound good initially, but when you take the money that would be spent on that item, and spend it on say proper public sidewalks and prominades you get much more for the money.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, even though its mine lol, but can you explain why? From what I have read, the pros outweight the cons on the issue. But I'm always open to learning more.

Do I think Tampa could become a Melbourne? It's always a possibility. But at the same time, Tampa will need to do a lot to reach to such a level. I'm talking about atleast 2 corporate headquarters, lots of private funding, serious improvement on all our transportation, and a lot of investment on pretty much everything in Tampa, espicially our port. Melbourne has done a great job of keeping the port so close to the city, but at the same time it is far enough to not interfere in growth. And Melbourne has also benefited with many large sporting events, including the 1956 Summer Olympics.

I must say, Melbourne has done a great job on developing many parks and green spaces. Their whole riverfront is filled with parks and golf courses. It would be like filling up the whole riverfront from University of Tampa to the Sulphur Springs Water Tower with parks.

If we drill oil..that will only last us an estimated 3 years....there is really not much out there. I mean there is but we consume too much that it will basically be depleted within a range of 3-5 yrs. It is really not worth a temporarily relief, not to mention it could also harm the a natural ecosystem if something goes wrong. We need to invest in energy that will be use in the future

anyways...All I could think for Tampa is a better transportation system. Not sure how would a metro rail work out since everything is so far spread out. But something connecting Airport, downtown, ybor, channelside, international mall, Raymond James Stadium, Busch Gardens, etc.
As for buses, I feel like Orlando has a better bus transportation than Tampa...I dunno. But like everyone has said here a more developed downtown...

I think we need more toll roads because that seems like the only way highways are being built in Florida nowadays. Since we lack highways this could be a viable option to get funding. Another thing is to do what they did in Miami on I-95 and add "Lexus Lanes" which basically will have the far left lane(s) be tolled in congested areas and charge based on the congestion. It is a good system which collects revenue and is efficient for those who pay.

http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv38/MK1998/Miami%20Trip%202009/IMG_0062.jpg

I think we need more toll roads because that seems like the only way highways are being built in Florida nowadays.

NO NO. I'm not sure how but Americans have to start weaning themselves off major roads and highways and start embracing mass transportation in the form of heavy/light rail.

A city metro with 4 million people that doesn't have any sort of heavy rail system and a minimal light rail system is really holding Tampa back. The massive sprawl - which is also a major problem for Melbourne - doesn't help either.

In contrast my home city of Melbourne is only slightly larger in population but has an extensive/intensive heavy and light rail system as well as buses. I'm not exactly sure but i think Melbourne's Tram network is in top 3 or 4 largest in the world with 500 trams and 250km's of track.

Melbourne's Metro Trains
http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/assets/images/Maps-and-stops/Train-and-tram-network/Train-Network-Map.gif

Melbourne's Trams - Yarra Trams
http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/assets/images/Maps-and-stops/Train-and-tram-network/Tram-Network-Map-updated.gif

^^That is awesome...THe thing that is keeping us from having mass transportation is the sprawl. Its pretty sad. But I am not sure how we can pull of trains in Tampa....

^^That is awesome...THe thing that is keeping us from having mass transportation is the sprawl. Its pretty sad. But I am not sure how we can pull of trains in Tampa....

I understand. Starting with an expanded tram network is a good start but your government just has to bite the bullet and and borrow and invest in public infrastructure and expand it over many years. I know it will cost billions but the benefits for future generations will far outway the costs.

If you want to stop major corporations leaving/relocating or enticing them to set up shop in Tampa as well as enticing people to migrate(which is directly related to major corps leaving/coming to Tampa) then it's really a must do NOW. Remember most people go where it's safe and where the jobs are.

Tampa should had bite Tallahassee in the ass to include funding for the HSR expansion from Tampa to St. Petersburg. It will be some time before we need a commuter rail, even though it would be nice to have it now, but I'd rather connect both sides of the bay with High Speed Rail to make Tampa destination stop for people going from Orlando to maybe a stop near PIE to jump on a light rail system to Clearwater Beach.

On the topic of toll roads, I think more along the lines of a Crosstown Expressway along our highways would be better off. Maybe start building our highways out to include 3 normal highway lanes and 2 toll roads that will also be a part of BSR. Visitors and residents in the Tampa Bay area that don't travel on I-275 or I-4 can take the normal lanes to avoid paying tolls and residents while residents that may need to travel from Tampa to St. Petersburg in the morning for work can purchase yearly toll passes like the SunPass. For visitors, they can buy visitor passes at a Hertz or something and will be billed later.

And thank you Dean for some common sense. If only most of our residents were like you. I don't know how many times I have mentioned that corporations and people are becoming aware of the benefits of light rail and other mass transportation options that it's become more of an necessity then just an option.

NO NO. I'm not sure how but Americans have to start weaning themselves off major roads and highways and start embracing mass transportation in the form of heavy/light rail.

A city metro with 4 million people that doesn't have any sort of heavy rail system and a minimal light rail system is really holding Tampa back. The massive sprawl - which is also a major problem for Melbourne - doesn't help either.

In contrast my home city of Melbourne is only slightly larger in population but has an extensive/intensive heavy and light rail system as well as buses. I'm not exactly sure but i think Melbourne's Tram network is in top 3 or 4 largest in the world with 500 trams and 250km's of track.

Melbourne's Metro Trains

We do need mass transit but because of our sprawl and layout we do need highways as well. Over the years whining residents and lack of funding have killed the highways networks our metro desperately needs so instead we are sprawled out with a bunch of artery roads with poor light timing. Light rail would work in the true urban areas of Tampa Bay but those areas only include parts of Tampa, St. Petersburg and misc parts of Pinellas County. The rest of the metro area it would be very difficult to set up a mass transit network that would be more efficient than highways.

And thank you Dean for some common sense. If only most of our residents were like you. I don't know how many times I have mentioned that corporations and people are becoming aware of the benefits of light rail and other mass transportation options that it's become more of an necessity then just an option.

np. :)

Just as a matter of interest. Can you tell me what is Tampa's current yearly population growth?

np. :)

Just as a matter of interest. Can you tell me what is Tampa's current yearly population growth?
I can't find an annual growth rate, but from 2000 to 2008, it's around 12.4% increase.

I can't find an annual growth rate, but from 2000 to 2008, it's around 12.4% increase.

That's still strong growth. Having great weather year round will certainly help Tampa's cause no doubt.

Obviously what's hurting the area atm is the massively depressed housing market and a general lack of investment by corporations as a result of your GFC.

With all the Tolls in Florida , I'm still wondering why you guys aren't using them as Cash Collectors for your many projects, like Future Transit?

With all the Tolls in Florida , I'm still wondering why you guys aren't using them as Cash Collectors for your many projects, like Future Transit?

Its cos Tampa only owns 1 toll way.
The veterans expressway is a Florida Turnpike Highway, therefore the state collects the money, not the metro. Orlando seems to get all the money for toll roads.
Tampa is going to need more solid industries to stay alive. ALL industries not just one. I'm probably going to leave Tampa if the regional leaders don't realize this. Can't rely on tourism anymore. What CAN Tampa do to compete with these other cities in terms of tourism? Not much, they should focus on building Tampa as a CITY not as a tourist destination. Tourism will come as the city grows.

We do need mass transit but because of our sprawl and layout we do need highways as well. Over the years whining residents and lack of funding have killed the highways networks our metro desperately needs so instead we are sprawled out with a bunch of artery roads with poor light timing. Light rail would work in the true urban areas of Tampa Bay but those areas only include parts of Tampa, St. Petersburg and misc parts of Pinellas County. The rest of the metro area it would be very difficult to set up a mass transit network that would be more efficient than highways.

I could see mass transit along dale mabry from bears to pass I 275, Same goes for Hillsborough, Busch, Fowler,Florida, armenia and Kennedy. Just make them all go one direction (no turns, just straight to follow the roads) and then a crazy connection between downtown, airport, ybor city and channelside.

Don't get me wrong so can I but compare other metros of similar size and even less sprawl we do lack highways. Pinellas County except the northern part is set up perfectly for mass transit, just needs and effective one.

We need to think long range here. Tampa Bay needs rail mass transit as a back bone of new development. Along the rail corridors should be high density development/redevelopment. That would generate ridership and leave more room for new green space elsewhere.

We need to think long range here. Tampa Bay needs rail mass transit as a back bone of new development. Along the rail corridors should be high density development/redevelopment. That would generate ridership and leave more room for new green space elsewhere.

Melbourne's future Transport plan was released late last year and the centre piece involves a massive 17km long North-South metro rail tunnel from Footscray in Melbourne's West to Caulfield in the South East. It's expected the 1st stage will cost $4.5 billion with the 2nd stage around the same amount. It's proposed to start construction by 2012 and be done by about 2018.

Melbourne Metro Rail Map - Stages 1 and 2
http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/pdfs/melb_metro_rail.pdf

Government Announcement
http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/Videos/video41/index.html

http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/photos/metro/melbournemetro_006.jpg

http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/photos/metro/melbournemetro_003.jpg

http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/photos/metro/melbournemetro_004.jpg

http://www4.transport.vic.gov.au/vtp/photos/metro/melbournemetro_002.jpg

We need to think long range here. Tampa Bay needs rail mass transit as a back bone of new development. Along the rail corridors should be high density development/redevelopment. That would generate ridership and leave more room for new green space elsewhere.

Very true. One of the main objectives HART is studying at the same time as rail is TOD along the corridor. This of course is a major step towards building a sustainable urban community in Tampa.

Steve

I think a lot of Melbourne's transit lines are historic...I wonder how Tampa would look if all the original transit lines were still in use today? We would probably not be debating this subject...

a surface parking lot on one of THE prime lots downtown.
I understand that the market will not support actively developing a residential or office tower at this time, but it's such a shame that all we'll get from tearing down the historic Maas Brothers building is an F'ing parking lot.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2010/01/25/story1.html?b=1264395600^2764141

Price of former Maas Bros. block drops after bust
Property has played important part in Tampa’s history
Tampa Bay Business Journal - by Janet Leiser Staff writer


TAMPA* – The city block that was home to the Maas Bros. department store for more than seven decades has stood vacant since the building was razed in the spring of 2006 to make way for a condominium tower.

Soon the land, bounded by Franklin, Zack, Twiggs and Tampa streets, will be a parking lot for 111 vehicles. Its future development use is unclear since supply exceeds demand for real estate, from condos to hotels to offices.

Last month, shopping center developer Cliff Levy partnered with Seven One Seven Parking Enterprises’ owners and brothers Jason Accardi and John Accardi to quietly buy the block from Wood Partners LLC of Atlanta.

The limited liability company established by Levy and the Accardis paid $2.7 million — nearly 24.5 percent of the $11 million paid by Wood Partners, a prominent Southeastern multifamily developer, in March 2006 amid the pre-bust days of Florida’s housing boom.

In fact, Maas 18 LLC paid $1.1 million less than the property traded for in 2004.

“It was a great opportunity,” said lawyer Ron Weaver, who represents the new owners. “It’s one of the greatest parcels in downtown Tampa.”

A site for flipping
The property at 610 N. Franklin St. has changed owners at least four times since the late 1990s when historic preservationists failed in an effort to restore the dilapidated building.

In 2002, commercial real estate developer Gregory L. Hughes announced Renaissance Tampa, a Chesapeake Atlantic Holdings Inc. project that was to include a 27-story, 450,000-square-foot office building with residential and retail space.

The development was to tie into the city’s planned downtown cultural arts district along the Hillsborough River. In recent years the history center, children’s museum and art museum have been built.

But the block wasn’t redeveloped.

In 2004, Hughes sold the property for $3.8 million to an investment group led by Pradip C. Patel. Fifteen months later, Patel’s group sold to Wood Partners for $11 million.

The residential market tanked before Wood Partners broke ground on a proposed 32-floor, 503-unit condo tower.

While calls to Wood Partners weren’t returned, a news article last year stated the company was shifting its focus from development to the acquisition of multifamily properties.

Little development is expected in the private sector over the next few years.

Levy, one of the new owners of the Maas Bros. block, said he believes the downtown area will be successful in the long term because the recession is temporary.

“You have to have the strength of your convictions,” said Levy, whose family is originally from Toronto. “Tampa has so much going for it.”

One of the city’s biggest challenges, according to Levy, is its ability to develop reliable public transportation, including light-rail service connecting downtown to the University of South Florida and Orlando.

“If they can get the public transportation, it really will be phenomenal,” Levy said.

Weaver, a real estate lawyer, said there has been a flurry of real estate activity in the past seven weeks.

“A lot of people are beginning to look at buying,” Weaver said. “It is a good time to buy at a great price.”


jleiser@bizjournals.com | 813.342.2468

What a fail... I cant believe they are allowing such a thing.

^^
Yeah, we don't need another dumb parking lot :bash:

When these types of situations occur, a development deal falling through that is, the City ought to force the owner into creating a "temporary" park, ala Lykes Plaza. Just some crushed shell paths, shade trees (10 max), and sod, nothing crazy or expensive. That way the public gets something good out of it until the market picks up and you can develop as originally planned. The only thing the owner would be out is about $10-$20K in landscaping. It would provide a bit of an incentive to keep things moving.

I remember that gaslight park is temporary, Lykes was supposed to build their headquarters there....that's going to be sad if that park really goes away...

I remember that gaslight park is temporary, Lykes was supposed to build their headquarters there....that's going to be sad if that park really goes away...
I actually like Lykes Park and its a very nice pocket park. If I would choose it over something in the 50 story range is a different story though.

Its fine if something viable goes up, hell anything over 20 stories would be fine with me. But vacant, fenced lots should not be allow. Make it a part of the demo permit in certain areas (CBD, Channelside, Kennedy Corridor, Westshore BD, and Ybor) that if you don't commence work on the "final" use within 60days, you have to install a park.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4308490954_df0aa159e4_o.jpg

Cool??

I like it. The only thing I can say negatively is that the light rail is going to be sharing the rail with Amtrak. I think we could work out a deal with them like Miami did, but of course it will be time.

Btw, whats the puke green color location for?

Oh yeah, sorry, that's the Convention/hotels district...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2772/4315361428_f91151cd6c_o.jpg

I revised the map adding HSR ...

Nice concept, but I'm missing the connection of the light rail with the HSR station...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4316166330_cdfc02d942_o.jpg

Maybe this would work...

...just to point out, I think the cruise terminals need to get out of the channelside district, especially between the aquarium and the plaza

The cruise terminals bring a huge amount of business to Channelside.

True, and frankly, I doubt they would be willing to build new terminals when the ones that are there now are so new, not to mention the revenue that they generate for the parking garages in channelside.

Steve

True, and frankly, I doubt they would be willing to build new terminals when the ones that are there now are so new, not to mention the revenue that they generate for the parking garages in channelside.

Steve

Revenue from parking garages. Yay! :banana:

I mainly think it's a shame that the cruise terminals block access to the waterfront because security precautions, etc.

Well, what do you think of the area at the north end of the Ybor channel....a lot of "ifs" but if they were to build the Rays stadium near Ybor would it not be a prime waterfront area for some commercial development? Somekind of Boardwalk with shops, entertainment, blah, blah, blah

I mainly think it's a shame that the cruise terminals block access to the waterfront because security precautions, etc.

Well, what do you think of the area at the north end of the Ybor channel....a lot of "ifs" but if they were to build the Rays stadium near Ybor would it not be a prime waterfront area for some commercial development? Somekind of Boardwalk with shops, entertainment, blah, blah, blah

I think that's where they should have put the Tampa Convention Center with a marina, hotels, parking etc.

The place where the Center is now should have been developend like Bayside Marketplace in Miami with a riverwalk, marina, shops and condos around it.

I think that's where they should have put the Tampa Convention Center with a marina, hotels, parking etc.

The place where the Center is now should have been developend like Bayside Marketplace in Miami with a riverwalk, marina, shops and condos around it.

I think tampa needs more cruise ships. Does anyone know if there are any plans to add more?

^There probably will be after HSR is built.

I could see more coming, but they will not be any larger than the ones there now. I believe they cannot get bigger because of the Skyway bridge. With that said, there is a huge market for the mid-size ships. If/when Cuba opens up I believe we will see more traffic with the cruise ships going that route.

Steve

Didn't Disney have a plan a couple years back to bring one of their cruise ships to the Port?

I think I remember hearing something about that. I believe it was because they were adding ships through 2012. I suppose it is still a possibility as more ships come online.

Steve

I think I remember hearing something about that. I believe it was because they were adding ships through 2012. I suppose it is still a possibility as more ships come online.

Steve
Hopefully we can get another cruise ship for Tampa. Either Disney or Carnival. I would expect Carnival would be the one to go for the Cuba stop since Disney is more "for the kids" and I really can't see them jumping on a Cuba destination as fast as Carnival would. I wouldn't expect a new ship from Carnival since their CEO said they wouldn't order any new ships until the economic conditions improve. We could also try to lure some different cruise companies in to the port as well.

Pam Iorio was on Fox News 13 this morning and started talking about the area around where the HSR Station will go and how it was really the only last area in our downtown that hasn't seen much development. So my question (I like starting up conversations if you haven't realized) is what would you like to see in that area?

^The BofA project to be re-planned as a TOD for HSR with about triple the build-out density the plan presently has.

Oh, and I want Tampa's leaders to be up there in Tallahassee pushing HARD for state Legislators to authorize a casino resort for Tampa, if it turns out that the deal is favorable for the state's taxpayers... And then I want them to build the casino somewhere on Ybor Channel.

^The BofA project to be re-planned as a TOD for HSR with about triple the build-out density the plan presently has.

Oh, and I want Tampa's leaders to be up there in Tallahassee pushing HARD for state Legislators to authorize a casino resort for Tampa, if it turns out that the deal if favorable for the state's taxpayers... And then I want them to build the casino somewhere on Ybor Channel.
I think we're pretty much on the same page on many things currently. The Encore definitely needs to replanned to include taller projects and actually connects to the city instead of the opposite. It has no retail along the main streets, you mentioned the park and how it acts as a border between the city and Encore instead of being a centerpiece, and the parking lot we've all pretty agreed sucks.

I actually talked about the casino being in north Channelside on the Ybor Channel when I contacted the development director or whomever it was about the W Hotel site a while back. Pretty much he had a little knowledge of what was going on which scares me. It may do something if we had at least 5 of us contact the mayor's office about this. If we bug her office about it they might relay the message back to her. And if there was another thing she wanted to leave with a positive note, having the knowledge that Sands Casino will build a $3 billion casino and Resort in Tampa would help out majorly.

Where would a Rays stadium go in downtown Tampa?
What is going on with that land west of Merdian Ave, east of 618, and just north of the Forum?

There are a couple of locations in discussion. You can find the main talk about that project here:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=545346&page=27

Steve

Where would a Rays stadium go in downtown Tampa?
What is going on with that land west of Merdian Ave, east of 618, and just north of the Forum?

Not a snowball's chance in hell... The FAA will never approve a stadium being built there, because it's DIRECTLY in the flight path for aircraft going to/from POK... That's why the 'Tampa Needle' project on the same site got all screwed up and eventually killed.

The only good site in DT Tampa is where I mentioned over a year ago... Somewhere within the Central Park CRA, between the downtown core and Ybor City.

Not a snowball's chance in hell... The FAA will never approve a stadium being built there, because it's DIRECTLY in the flight path for aircraft going to/from POK... That's why the 'Tampa Needle' project on the same site got all screwed up and eventually killed.

The only good site in DT Tampa is where I mentioned over a year ago... Somewhere within the Central Park CRA, between the downtown core and Ybor City.

It's my fault, but my two questions were completely separate thoughts. I was just wondering what all that cleared land on aerials (bing.com/maps has the best birds eye views) was for. The stadium question was separate.

It's my fault, but my two questions were completely separate thoughts. I was just wondering what all that cleared land on aerials (bing.com/maps has the best birds eye views) was for. The stadium question was separate.

Part of that land was supposed to be Prime Meridian, and office building. It still may be some day...but that site has been quiet for a while.

The website for the project is offline now, so that is not good news. Here is a link to the thread that was talking about it though:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=501943
and a link to the TBO article with rendering:http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/dec/12/bz-downtown-project-raises-standards/

Steve

^I had heard CBRE killed that office project for a lack of demand.

Wouldn't be surprised if it is cancelled, but CBRE has it still listed and was last revised 5 days ago, so who knows. Maybe a quick email can verify where the project stands.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=cbre7&LID=15736355&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=853493652

If it is cancelled, just another plot of land vacant in a area that shouldn't.

Wouldn't be surprised if it is cancelled, but CBRE has it still listed and was last revised 5 days ago, so who knows. Maybe a quick email can verify where the project stands.

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?stid=cbre7&LID=15736355&LL=true&UOMListing=&UOMMoneyCurrency=&RentPer=PY&SRID=853493652

If it is cancelled, just another plot of land vacant in a area that shouldn't.
I contacted Prime Meridian and got a vague email back. The rep. only said that they have yet broke ground on the project (no, really? lol) and then asked if I was interesting in leasing. Should I lie to retrieve more info? lmao.

^no.

^no.
Only kidding lol :)

I emailed the county commission earlier today on the possibility of placing cruise lines under the tourist tax. I read yesterday that Alaska tried to get such a action passed, but the Governor opposed it. Just imagine Tampa, Miami, Cape Canaveral, and other cruise ports with the extra revenue from the cruises. Would be millions of more dollars for Hillsborough and Tampa.

Besides its residents needing to know how to actually drive? :lol:

I'm with the first few posters here that Tampa needs a light rail system (that's more a priority for me than the high speed rail) and fill up those eyesore empty lots in downtown.

An H&M wouldn't hurt either, but that's just me. :)

An H&M wouldn't hurt either, but that's just me. :)

H&M would be great! Great clothes at even better prices. I unfortunately would expect Orlando to get it first though.

Steve

^ Orlando already has one, in Florida Mall, next to the 2-story Forever 21

Sad that Orlando gets certain things first before the TB area, like IKEA.

^ Orlando already has one, in Florida Mall, next to the 2-story Forever 21

Sad that Orlando gets certain things first before the TB area, like IKEA.

I did not know they had one! I get to Atlanta more often than Orlando though, as close as it is.

Orlando will likely always have a leg up when it comes to consumer goods as they are perceptually a larger market, and they are a larger market for leisure goods like clothing etc.

Steve

H&M's clothes are stylish, but they rarely last more than a few wears. disposable, seasonal clothing at its best.

i'd tolerate that if it weren't so, ultimately, wasteful. more importantly, H&M is a major investor in israel's military industrial complex.

H&M's clothes are stylish, but they rarely last more than a few wears. disposable, seasonal clothing at its best.


Some of it is, yes I would agree, but I have some shirts that are well over 5 years now, but then I do not wear them every week either. You get what you pay for in the end though.

Steve

Maybe since we just got the RNC convention in 2012 we might now get 2 more downtown hotels..

I'm thinking a W or a Ritz Carlton coming soon hopefully..

Would a hotel chain/brand build a hotel in Tampa just for that though? Maybe if the city did some promoting for a new hotel in Tampa, with a bunch of reasons why, then maybe we'll get a new one. With High Speed Rail, RNC convention, a likely spike in tourism this year, possibility of the World Cup, and another Super Bowl in the next 7 years; I can see some hotel brand getting interested and building in Tampa. If we just say that we'll be getting a RNC convention that lasts a week, then I don't really see anything happening.

I did not know they had one! I get to Atlanta more often than Orlando though, as close as it is.

Orlando will likely always have a leg up when it comes to consumer goods as they are perceptually a larger market, and they are a larger market for leisure goods like clothing etc.

Steve

I would think the spending power of tourists bouys that market up.

Back to Tampa, this may have been mentioned earlier, but I would like to see Westshore redevelop as more of a walkable district. Even the newer stuff like MetWest is still quite suburban in nature. I like the plans/visions to redevelop DC metro's Tyson's Corner area around the expanding rail line. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpz/tysonscorner/

Westshore could redevelop in a similar way.

^Won't happen until the next generation of redevelopment, 20-30 years from now.

Yeah, you're probably right.

What does Tampa need: narrower streets. Take a look at this article about a guy in LA, who is a bit of an urban planning buff, and he has Photoshopped various intersections showing how they would look if the streets were slimmed down.

http://www.good.is/post/los-angeles-reimagined-with-narrow-streets/

and the blog:

http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/

This kind of builds on the article I read in Azure recently about urban design. The basic thrust was that you should start designing cities with their users in mind, people, and the make your transportation decisions based on how people use the environment, not how they get to and from the environment.

What does Tampa need: narrower streets. Take a look at this article about a guy in LA, who is a bit of an urban planning buff, and he has Photoshopped various intersections showing how they would look if the streets were slimmed down.

http://www.good.is/post/los-angeles-reimagined-with-narrow-streets/

and the blog:

http://narrowstreetsla.blogspot.com/

This kind of builds on the article I read in Azure recently about urban design. The basic thrust was that you should start designing cities with their users in mind, people, and the make your transportation decisions based on how people use the environment, not how they get to and from the environment.

fun link, thanks for sharing!

and i'm in agreement with the rest of what you've said. it's something that san francisco planners have been saying for years... and, even here, it's an uphill battle. it's definitely where the momentum is heading, though, in terms of the everyday practice of urban design (and not just what's taught in the academy)

Just think of how the street level interactions are drastically better around Jannus Landings (Central Ave side), versus just about any street in DT Tampa. Having only two lanes makes all the difference in the world. The difference is in what is getting priority, people or their cars.

Now the whole of either DT can't be just two lanes with angle parking, you have to move people. But I would make damn sure there aren't any one way, four lane, surface level drag strips in areas where people should be free to move about on foot. Four lanes with limited parallel parking and lots of sidewalk projections ought to be the way to go.

I don't agree at all, downtown Tampa is just not urban enough that is why. Go to cities like New York, Paris, or Chicago they don't have two lane streets, they have a bunch of one way and wide streets. Downtown Tampa is just a large office park that has potential to be urban vs St. Pete which is more urban. In Tampa most of the activity is by car, people drive from suburbia or redneckland to downtown for work and return all at mostly the same time. Those streets become speedways to enter and leave downtown, the mass empty lots just discourage walking even more. I actually see more pedestrians along some of the bigger one way streets in St. Pete like 4th St and a few others. Lets say there is a one way road with 4 lanes of 11ft wide each. That is 44ft which is not a large distance even by walking, you'd really have to take your time to take long there. I think a few major factors are key with the problem; for one there is priority which in Tampa are cars, drivers are also not used to pedestrians(I won't lie even I sometimes don't check sidewalks), and lack of urbanity. Narrowing the roads would only make DT a parking lot(worse than now) at peak times, I think if other cities way bigger and more urban that Tampa can do it without narrowing roads then we can too.

I don't agree at all, downtown Tampa is just not urban enough that is why. Go to cities like New York, Paris, or Chicago they don't have two lane streets, they have a bunch of one way and wide streets. Downtown Tampa is just a large office park that has potential to be urban vs St. Pete which is more urban. In Tampa most of the activity is by car, people drive from suburbia or redneckland to downtown for work and return all at mostly the same time. Those streets become speedways to enter and leave downtown, the mass empty lots just discourage walking even more. I actually see more pedestrians along some of the bigger one way streets in St. Pete like 4th St and a few others. Lets say there is a one way road with 4 lanes of 11ft wide each. That is 44ft which is not a large distance even by walking, you'd really have to take your time to take long there. I think a few major factors are key with the problem; for one there is priority which in Tampa are cars, drivers are also not used to pedestrians(I won't lie even I sometimes don't check sidewalks), and lack of urbanity. Narrowing the roads would only make DT a parking lot(worse than now) at peak times, I think if other cities way bigger and more urban that Tampa can do it without narrowing roads then we can too.

I agree, downtown traffic sucks. That's why I don't understand why anyone would want to build a stadium there. Imagine rush hour, plus lightning game, plus a baseball game all happening around the same time. It would be ridiculous.

I agree, downtown traffic sucks. That's why I don't understand why anyone would want to build a stadium there. Imagine rush hour, plus lightning game, plus a baseball game all happening around the same time. It would be ridiculous.
It's all politics and money, a stadium in Tampa makes Tampa look better and a new stadium means money for a group of people. The logic that the drive to St. Pete is bad if flawed because most games are after rush hour and even then I've driven from Tampa to St.Pete at rush hour all throughout my life and its not bad except at malfunction junction. In fact driving towards Pinellas on the Howard Frankland you can see all the poor suckers stopped on I-275 heading back to Tampa meanwhile I can go 70mph each time I drive on that bridge at rush hour even. Another thing to consider is a stadium in downtown Tampa will take up a huge swath of land which might actually be a negative for downtown kind of like in Jacksonville where you drive on the outskirts of downtown and there you see two big stadiums sitting empty when there are no games and the area around them is just dead.

I always wondered why the idea of a Rays Stadium on the Tampa Greyhound Track has slightly been touch. Is it because it's too far from Downtown Tampa or something else? To me, greyhound tracks are becoming less and less popular. I don't know if attendance has gone down or not, but the popularity certainly has.

I agree, downtown traffic sucks. That's why I don't understand why anyone would want to build a stadium there. Imagine rush hour, plus lightning game, plus a baseball game all happening around the same time. It would be ridiculous.

If you build a light rail system that allows patrons to visit Downtown by transit, traffic won't be a problem. Many of the world's largest cities deal with much busier city centers and with smaller roads, but you need an efficient public transit system. In Downtown Miami, we have the Miami Heat arena, along with the million other things going on in Downtown, and the Metro serves a very large majority of the Heat fans going to the games. It certainly helps ameliorate traffic.

I agree, downtown traffic sucks. That's why I don't understand why anyone would want to build a stadium there. Imagine rush hour, plus lightning game, plus a baseball game all happening around the same time. It would be ridiculous.

OMG Traffic in a downtown!! How absurd!

Because downtowns never have traffic.

We want it downtown to bring more people to downtown Tampa

I got a question.

What's the purpose of sister cities? And how hard is it to make new sister cities?

^ Cultural exchanges most likely. I remember a few St. Petersburg area high school kids going to one of its sister cities, Takamatsu in Japan, and going to school there for a few days.

Thanks! Wonder if we can establish more for Tampa and St. Petersburg.

You know, with Bayshore, Riverwalk, and the possible trail under the Crosstown; the city should find someone to do a bike rental or bike sharing company in the city. The same could happen in St. Petersburg too.

You know, with Bayshore, Riverwalk, and the possible trail under the Crosstown; the city should find someone to do a bike rental or bike sharing company in the city. The same could happen in St. Petersburg too.

There's already a bike rental stand on the Riverwalk. It's located under the Franklin St Harbor Island bridge and is run by City Bike, which is a shop in downtown.

There's already a bike rental stand on the Riverwalk. It's located under the Franklin St Harbor Island bridge and is run by City Bike, which is a shop in downtown.
Didn't know they had a stand. Thanks for the info.

I'm speaking about this though,

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/broward/blog/bike%20sharing.jpg

There's already a bike rental stand on the Riverwalk. It's located under the Franklin St Harbor Island bridge and is run by City Bike, which is a shop in downtown.
Thanks for the info! :cheers:

Didn't know they had a stand. Thanks for the info.

I'm speaking about this though,

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/broward/blog/bike%20sharing.jpg
I'd be ace to see multiple stands (sorry don't really know the names for those) scattered along a trail or throughout the downtown areas.

The system is called bicycle sharing, they have different names in different cities. Minneapolis and some other cities have them with different names.

They need to strike oil in the bay or the Gulf of Mexico for that to happen.

this filled out lovely, huh?

I remember a while back that I mentioned Tampa possibly doing a wrestling museum or Hall of Fame for the WWE and can't find where I said it, but I remember that I did say something along those lines.

Well, WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) has announced that they are taking bids to place a permanent Hall of Fame in a city. And for f*ck sakes, why not Tampa? If the WWE is willing to handle much of the cost for construction of a Hall of Fame, then how will Tampa hurt from such an idea? Tampa is home to many current and former wrestlers, there is a couple wrestling schools around the Tampa Bay area run by former WWE wrestlers, and Tampa is home to their development school FCW. They could design and construct a facility that has an area for the FCW and Hall of Fame. Of course this wouldn't be something I would want in the middle of Tampa but I would think they would want it somewhere close to downtown (Seminole Heights, Ybor, Westshore) that will be close to everything else and isn't forcing visitors to drive long distance to get to the Hall of Fame.

WWE has announced that they want to be in a place where tourism is huge. And while Orlando (they made their intentions clear that they want this) may have a larger tourism market than Tampa, our tourism market isn't so bad and we also have some history when it comes to the city and wrestling.

Should I give it a shot to hit up the tourism commission about this?

There's already a bike rental stand on the Riverwalk. It's located under the Franklin St Harbor Island bridge and is run by City Bike, which is a shop in downtown.

But their rates are a bit high, IMO.
http://citybiketampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/CBT_Rental_Prices_2010.pdf
Bicycles (Most Adult Bikes)
1 Hour $ 12
2 Hours $ 20
3 Hours $ 26
Daily Rental* $ 32
Weekly Rental** $ 99
Sunset Special $ 25

At $32 a day one can buy a bike for around that at Walmart. Sure they have better bikes....but still.

Steve

The same could be said about the weekly rental too. $198 for two weeks could buy you a good bike that will last you a year or so.

@TampaMike...I say, why not? With Hulk living in the area, I would think it would help in a Tampa bid...not to mention help draw some tourists from Orlando to our coast for at least a day as part of their vacation plans. With Legoland going up in between, it might get more people to consider using the train to Tampa for a complete theme park, beaches, family vacation.

@TampaMike...I say, why not? With Hulk living in the area, I would think it would help in a Tampa bid...not to mention help draw some tourists from Orlando to our coast for at least a day as part of their vacation plans. With Legoland going up in between, it might get more people to consider using the train to Tampa for a complete theme park, beaches, family vacation.
Our history goes all the way back to the 60's with Dusty Rhodes and Jack Brisco. We've been called Wrestletown, USA by numerous people. Many current stars for them in Tampa, one just got arrested for DUI this morning! lol

I think it is a shame though that Tampa hasn't hosted a Wrestlemania. Their past Wrestlemania and next Wrestemania are both in stadiums that are closed-roof, they might be looking for another location where they can have a Wrestemania under an open roof stadium like Raymond James.

But their rates are a bit high, IMO.
http://citybiketampa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/CBT_Rental_Prices_2010.pdf
Bicycles (Most Adult Bikes)
1 Hour $ 12
2 Hours $ 20
3 Hours $ 26
Daily Rental* $ 32
Weekly Rental** $ 99
Sunset Special $ 25

At $32 a day one can buy a bike for around that at Walmart. Sure they have better bikes....but still.

Steve

You can def get one at a pawn shop for around that... Ride it, and then either ditch it or sell it back to the pawn shop for $10-15 or whatever at the end of your trip.

Crazy rental prices.

What does Tampa need? Better code enforcement. Lot of areas are run down near tourist areas and give them a bad impression of the area and don't want to come back. Homes also need to be enforced as well.

What does Tampa need? Better code enforcement. Lot of areas are run down near tourist areas and give them a bad impression of the area and don't want to come back. Homes also need to be enforced as well.

Tampa needs to adopt Orlando's policies on streetscaping, parks, general beautification. They have a knack for making our Florida environment look good.

What does Tampa need? Probably Baron Haussmann. Or a contemporary equivalent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann's_renovation_of_Paris

Well you got a Scores, so you can cross that off the list.

I would settle for Peter Calthorpe moving here and taking over a unified Tampa/Hillsborough planning dept... lol

I would settle for Peter Calthorpe moving here and taking over a unified Tampa/Hillsborough planning dept... lol
We just need someone that actually knows what they are doing and how to properly plan a city the size of Tampa. It's bad enough we have a population that doesn't have any clue what they are doing, but we have a city government that is in the same sinking boat.

I would settle for Peter Calthorpe moving here and taking over a unified Tampa/Hillsborough planning dept... lol

from one tampan turned californian, i must say: if calthorpe can't handle san francisco, what makes you think he can deal with tampa? :lol:

this coming from someone who likes calthorpe and works with them regularly. :)

Well you got a Scores, so you can cross that off the list.
Send Scores and half of our fleet of strip clubs somewhere else please! lol

^^its what makes the area quaint.

I say keep the clubs, send half the retirees elsewhere and try to keep the young who actually have a future. Its amazing the difference when more people are trying to find ways to make money, versus preserve what they've made in the past.

from one tampan

For reference it is Tampanian, we are not named for a female hygiene device. Now, our city and county leaders may qualify otherwise though.

Steve

I say keep the clubs, send half the retirees elsewhere and try to keep the young who actually have a future. Its amazing the difference when more people are trying to find ways to make money, versus preserve what they've made in the past.

Exactly. For anyone that has traveled to Atlanta, DC, Chicago, Austin, Charlotte, etc. it becomes glaringly clear how demographically old our metro is. The shear amount of people under 40 is incredible when you look outside of here.

Steve

from one tampan turned californian, i must say: if calthorpe can't handle san francisco, what makes you think he can deal with tampa? :lol:

this coming from someone who likes calthorpe and works with them regularly. :)
Oh come now, municipally speaking, we're talking about different planets. SFO perfected NIMBYism into a fine art... I bet his firm could come up with a lovely plan for the county.

For reference it is Tampanian, we are not named for a female hygiene device. Now, our city and county leaders may qualify otherwise though.

Steve

I suffered through 16 years in Tampa; I'll label myself as I please.

I happen to enjoy toilet humour, anyway. /sarcasm

Oh come now, municipally speaking, we're talking about different planets. SFO perfected NIMBYism into a fine art... I bet his firm could come up with a lovely plan for the county.

No, I kid.

But I do seriously doubt how much of it could be feasibly implemented given the dynamics of the area (Calthorpe is significantly more pragmatic in their planning than DPZ, however; DPZ has done plans for smaller communities in Hillsborough, like Apollo Beach, but nothing has come of them); however, they provide a good, rather palatable 'suggestion' of what the area could be. That level of guidance alone would do TPA wonders.

I'll label myself as I please.

Fair enough, as long as the rest of us that are currently stuck are not labeled unfairly.:cheers:

Steve

I think DShenise suggested this one time in connection to the Trop redevelopment. I disargeed, but I like it now. What is the possibility of two urban research parks in Tampa and St. Pete, similar to Johns Hopkins’ urban research village in Baltimore http://www.scienceparkjohnshopkins.net/ or University of South Carolina's Inovista http://innovista.sc.edu/ in Columbia? The old Tampa Heights redevelopment plan could be scrapped in favor of creating an urban science and tech center in partnership with US-Tech with lab and office space for lease. It could still have hotel, residential and retail elements. This would be a bold TOD for the HSR station. The city could use the recent grant from HUD and USDOT to develop the plan.

On the St. Pete side, work a land swap deal with the Rays for a new stadium in Toytown, and turn the Trop land into a St. Pete campus of Florida Institute of Technology with additional lab and office space for lease. This would also have a hotel/conference center, retail and residential. This would be another large scale TOD, and build on the growing educational and research cluster building in DT St. Pete. Additionally, FIT has an arts program that would thrive well here and support St. Pete's art scene.

Both developments would bring jobs, promote entrepreneurship and new industry, and start to give Tampa Bay a more progressive image.

Education = "elitism" = the ignorant ideologues who populate this area will oppose it.

Also... Education = costs money = the old people who come here to die will oppose it.

Since Pinellas County's voting population is comprised almost entirely of these two voting blocs, your proposal doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

:D

Unless it directly benefits them, like medical research particularly gerontology, which USF already a head start in and would be easy to pair with endless supply of elderly in St. Pete. Its also handy that St. Pete's elderly tend to be more lower middle income to lower income, creating a built in market for outreach. Not like anyone was looking at the realities of the region and trying to pick the low hanging fruit or anything versus trying to hit a walkoff homerun or anything.........:smug:

Ha, Jasonhouse! I tend to be a little more optimistic. I agree with DShenise, if it builds on what already exists (healthcare, marine science, arts) or somehow can benefit our traditional "bread and butter" (retirees), leadership might go for it. So, I shared the idea via email yesterday with leadership and planners in Tampa and St. Pete. I also shared it with mayoral candidates. At least Turanchik thinks it's worth looking into. The others haven't responded yet.

I'm pretty sure my own post here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16801043&postcount=133), is the first time that the idea of something like a university on the Trop site was mentioned on SSC. I've mentioned the same thing numerous times on multiple websites in the three years since then.

Well, I must give credit where credit is due. It's a great idea -- then and now! Three years ago, retail and housing sounded nice. But, now after the economic fall, it should be quite clear to people how badly we need more economic drivers in this area.

I think focusing more on the medical fields is a very smart idea at the moment. Of any work sector, the medical field seems the strongest at the moment and it is probably one of the few areas that is ever affected by an economic downturn.

I emailed St. Pete's mayors office about this and only got a reply back from his secretary or assistant that they would show this to Foster. I never got a reply from him or the person that replied back. I like the idea of the Cleveland Medical Mart, opens up a permanent showcase of new and future medical innovations and equipment and allows for companies to come to show rooms and sell their stuff to hospitals, universities, etc. from around the area. And the thing with the CMM is that they also have plans of redeveloping some of the area around the main building as can be seen in the renders. Nashville and NYC also have plans for medical marts and as the Cleveland one only consists of 4 floors, the Nashville consists of 11. This would be something good to accompany the research area that is being talking about for the Heights area. Not only would it start more redevelopment of that area, but it would encourage more hotels and development in The Heights area.

http://clevelandmedicalmart.com/

Turanchik sounds like a reasonable man, I'll shot him the idea.

The difficulty I see in seeking to transform cities with research campuses, rail terminals, sports facilities - large as the effects of these would surely be - is the piecemeal approach they represent. Cities which implemented comprehensive master plans for utility and growth - the 'city beautiful movement' exemplars like Chicago, Cleveland and Detroit - outgrew their plans. And none of them imagined they'd need to address a shrinking base, as is the case in Cleveland today, and is especially true of Detroit.

Among the latter-day failures, the best were the ones which concentrated on a civic fabric which would easily support changing uses. They saw to water supply, public spaces, mobility (within the city, and into and out of the city), and especially to population density, and then enjoyed a century or more without a need for new interventions. Even the best of these, though, have outgrown their original scope. And none of them have planned on how to contract in an orderly fashion should that become their future.

I don't know if any firm or individual can retain the necessary support, or retain it over a long enough period of time, to effect how a city shapes itself. The last example I can recall was John Portman in Atlanta - you might say he shifted the course of that city, though he couldn't rightly be said to have planned it.

^Plans come from purpose. Purpose comes from identity. Tampa is STILL has no identity, hence it has a limited future.

I personally prefer a more organic, less planned growth pattern as I think you end up with better quirks and oddities that make cities interesting. As I mentioned before, when things are bad economically, its best to look very critically at your area and try to get the most for the least. Going for the low hanging fruit if you will, makes sense.

The medical campus at Bayfront could always support expansion with an aging population and very little economic activity down there right now. Using the Trop property in concert with Bayfront, USF med school and perhaps the VA (who are locked into a tight property in Seminole with little expansion opportunity), to create a very respectable interconnected series of clusters that allow for support uses around them.

St. Pete is not now, nor will it be in the future a serious economic hub beyond medicine and tourism. Shooting for the stars will only lead to disappointment. Get what you can, and this is a pretty achievable goal, while you can. Jump at it before someone like Sembler talks the city into some mixed use development that will sit 3/4 full of nothing but Cold Stone Creameries, Sunglass Huts, and Dry Cleaners. You'll kick yourself afterwards if you buy into such a thing and all you get out of it are low end service jobs.

DShenise: I personally prefer a more organic, less planned growth pattern as I think you end up with better quirks and oddities that make cities interesting.

Nothing organic about Tampa's grid. Washington's modern layout was imposed far later than most people realize - a great number of established buildings, railway spurs and pavements were cleared away for the Pierre de l'Enfant plan. By the time of the JFK funeral, the city was magnificent.

But it was distinguished by an unusually fine design. Paris the same. Yes, I seem always to cite Paris, but it is a remarkably beautiful city.

I believe we don't set our sights high enough.

DC is utterly boring and staid. Its a museum with a secondary function as a place where national government business takes place. I personally prefer Tokyo or Seoul.

DC? Boring? A museum? Pffft.

I lived there, it was in 99-2001, and when I visited last year it still was. Is street life better than Tampa, yes, but that isn't saying much.

I like the Newseum in D.C. :)

Reading a recent statement in the newspaper...I can't remember who...but he was saying Tampa is still a secret to a lot of people. It goes back to the discussions we had (probably earlier in this thread) about Tampa needing an image. I think a lot of what we have is a secret even to the people that live here.

I think Tampa as a city, and the metro as a whole, has an authenticity and history about it that differentiates it from Orlando and maybe some other places, particularly in the south. It looks and feels more like a real city that developed over time, as opposed to Orlando's more manufactured, almost "scripted" image for example. We could definately build off that to generate interest and excitement.

Ybor, SoHo, downtown St. Pete, Grand Central, even some of the smaller places that don't get as much press like the downtowns of Clearwater, Gulport, Dunedin, Safety Harbor, Tarpon Springs, and what could develop in West Tampa, Tampa Heights and Sulphur Springs. We definitely have more than just beaches, nice weather and a laid back vibe. We have a much more authentic, real urban centers that a lot of metros our size don't have. It's a strong selling point, I think.

Now if only those areas were more linked together by transit, but that's a different discussion.

Iv been to tampa soooo many times it needs to take a page from st petes book and have an actual downtown with store fronts and small shops, all downtown tampa is is parking garages and offices. It has an enormous amount of potential because of the amount of vacant space in the core which I hope will be put to good use. All you from tampa dont even pretend to yourself that tampas downtown is better than st pete, but with some good r&d it could be 10X better than st pete. I really like tampa though its definately different from miami and orlando, miami is huge dirty and fast paced, orlando is cheap fake and boring, tampa is calm relaxed and slow paced, everything is good about it but the downtown part which is the opposite of most cities, but it has the space and lots of potential to change that too.

Iv been to tampa soooo many times it needs to take a page from st petes book and have an actual downtown with store fronts and small shops, all downtown tampa is is parking garages and offices. It has an enormous amount of potential because of the amount of vacant space in the core which I hope will be put to good use. All you from tampa dont even pretend to yourself that tampas downtown is better than st pete, but with some good r&d it could be 10X better than st pete. I really like tampa though its definately different from miami and orlando, miami is huge dirty and fast paced, orlando is cheap fake and boring, tampa is calm relaxed and slow paced, everything is good about it but the downtown part which is the opposite of most cities, but it has the space and lots of potential to change that too.
Channelside has mass potential to be an area where you can shop, eat, and do whatever. Unfortunately, the economy has limited the amount of retail spaces filling up. We've had some great openings, espicially in Grand Central, but it will take time filling in all the rest. I'm really hoping the leaders in that area, and residents too, encourage more stores to open in the vacant retail units and kind of enforce the need of the owners of projects around Channelside to do more to fill in those spaces when the economy improves.

When it comes to the core of Tampa, it's going to take some time to fill in that area with whatever could happen. Condos, apartments, offices, hotels; whatever it is should require retail and more pedestrian interaction. Make the sidewalks wider, have outdoor eating, add benches and greenery. Even with the USF Medical building taking up prime real estate in the center of Tampa, we still have an oppurtunity in connecting Channelside and the area south of Selmon with the rest of our Central Business District.

^^definately and once it gets a little more filled in and theres some more shops downtown in my opinion itll be the best city in florida I really like the beaches around it, and its a really chill little city. It has soooo much potential that it will one day reach, not there yet tho.

I just wish the city and whomever works on the CRA for Channelside realize how much potential it does has. They need to make sure that the sidewalks welcomes pedestrians and not scare them away. If pedestrians fear that they'll fall into the streets while walking up Channelside Dr., they'll be less willing to walk along there. And the same goes with 12th and 11th St. which has in some spots no sidewalks at all. Thankfully the city did a good job with the sidewalk along Meridian Dr. and I'll give credit where ever it is due. But I do believe that there should be mandatory guidelines set up so when a developer comes to the city with a proposal for the area, they know what to expect and what is expected.

If pedestrians fear that they'll fall into the streets while walking up Channelside Dr., they'll be less willing to walk along there.
Significant numbers of people are never going to walk along Channelside or Meridian, so long as the city continues to treat both roads like suburban drag strips, designed to let cars go as fast as possible. Make the speed limit 15 mph (which means people will do at least 25), and then maybe people won't fear for their lives when walking along either road.

Significant numbers of people are never going to walk along Channelside or Meridian, so long as the city continues to treat both roads like suburban drag strips, designed to let cars go as fast as possible. Make the speed limit 15 mph (which means people will do at least 25), and then maybe people won't fear for their lives when walking along either road.
Agreed on that. Having the speed limit as it is is unrealistic to any real urban city. They also need to fix the area between the garages and Channelside Plaza/Florida Aquarium to make it safer for pedestrians to cross. Adding a pedestrian stop light to give them the ability to cross without risking it across Channelside Dr.

^The two lane part of Channelside isn't so bad, because cars get pretty bottled up going through there, and never go much over 20mph it seems. The problem is, that stretch of road is only a few hundred yards long, and itself only has one crosswalk which drivers seem to respect.(the one in front of the PA garage. There's so much foot traffic there constantly, that drivers basically have to stop)

Even crossing at Meridian is a nightmare though imo. It's like once drivers even see the road after the light widens (it does so in all 3 other directions), they go into suburban lemming mode, and will flat out run your ass over. What gets me is the Harbour Island drivers seem to be the worst, and they frickin live right there. If anyone should know better, it's them.

Hopefully the city/DOT will be willing to put in a couple more lights along both Meridian and N-S Channelside Dr, as the neighborhood in between fills in with redevelopment. If there were even two more lights, that would slow traffic considerably. Dropping the speed limit below the current 40mph that is posted on both roads would certainly help too. It's hard for a city to say it takes pedestrian safety seriously when it has 40mph vehicle speed limits through the very parts of downtown that it claims it intends to develop into an attractive residential neighborhood. Even Kennedy Blvd in front of Grand Central has a 40mph speed limit.

Btw, here's an informative study that is related to the corridor. (truck traffic study on SR60 through downtown, Channelside and Ybor.)

http://dev.gc-inc.com/gmweb/CorridorReports/10_42_Hillsborough_SR60Kennedy_JacksontoNebraska_12-13-2010.pdf



And btw, if the govt wants to use spy cameras to give drivers tickets, why don't they set a few of them up around downtown? Trying showing some actual leadership, and crack down on oblivious drivers who will send you to the morgue, before they realize they've hit you.

There are spy cameras in Boston. Let's just say I learned my lesson the hard way. In any case, lesson learned.

Good morning everyone! My name is Jakub Horodecki and I will be opening a new martini lounge on 912 N. Franklin Street in approx 70 days. Never before seen bar, lighting and sound. The most upscale venue Tampa has ever seen. 8K sq ft total. Let me know what you think.

Any questions? email us at thescorpiongroup@gmail.com

^^

Can you tell us more about the "never before seen bar, lighting and sound"?

Sounds interesting.

Good morning everyone! My name is Jakub Horodecki and I will be opening a new martini lounge on 912 N. Franklin Street in approx 70 days. Never before seen bar, lighting and sound. The most upscale venue Tampa has ever seen. 8K sq ft total. Let me know what you think.

Any questions? email us at thescorpiongroup@gmail.com

Sounds interesting. Got a proposed floor plan or interior elevations you can share here?

I will definately check it out, I saw you guys working on it the other day. It looked like you still had a little ways to go but in any event my wife and I live downtown at skypoint and will definately check it out. My wife and I were talking about how something like that would be great for the downtown area plus I like that it kinda bridges the area between the fly and tampa theatre area.

plus I like that it kinda bridges the area between the fly and tampa theatre area.



Yeah hopefully it can help spur some interest and help revitalize that area of Franklin. Let's hope so!



Anyways, Good luck and keep us updated on things!

I emailed them but didn't get a reply. Don't know if it's one or both of the connected buildings north of the wig store. There is a picture of that block in the "tampa photos" section (sometime in 2007). BYW, the wig store was there when I was in DT in 1980. It may be one of the only businesses that stayed/survived the DT exodus. If you think DT is dead today, you should have seen it 30 years ago. Much worse.

that reminds me they are also opening up The Metro next to Fresh on frankland and they began working on the mediterranean restaurant in the last parcel in skypoint. Downtown is getting closer to the critical mass needed to sustain a downtown community.

Well after reading some of the previous post about "Fresh" I went down there to try it. What I had was excellent. The greens next to my sandwich were very crisp. We were the only ones there, except another four sitting outside. We walked up and down both sides of Franklin, looking at the vacant storefronts, and just imagined if it could come back to life. I walked through the south side of Franklin back in the 90's and didn't really like it. It's the old north end that could rock.

Don't know if this was already posted but the entire base of Skypoint is open or sold out. I've been to Taps and they need some competition.

Got a reply. All they said was yes, it's where Ho Ho Express was and to come on down. They didn't say anything specific about the building(s) exterior so we will have to wait and see I guess unless they release more details to the public. I'm guessing that the north most part of the block will be a little bit of parking since it's one of the buildings that burned down a few years ago.

I remember a while back that I mentioned Tampa possibly doing a wrestling museum or Hall of Fame for the WWE and can't find where I said it, but I remember that I did say something along those lines.

Well, WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) has announced that they are taking bids to place a permanent Hall of Fame in a city. And for f*ck sakes, why not Tampa? If the WWE is willing to handle much of the cost for construction of a Hall of Fame, then how will Tampa hurt from such an idea? Tampa is home to many current and former wrestlers, there is a couple wrestling schools around the Tampa Bay area run by former WWE wrestlers, and Tampa is home to their development school FCW. They could design and construct a facility that has an area for the FCW and Hall of Fame. Of course this wouldn't be something I would want in the middle of Tampa but I would think they would want it somewhere close to downtown (Seminole Heights, Ybor, Westshore) that will be close to everything else and isn't forcing visitors to drive long distance to get to the Hall of Fame.

WWE has announced that they want to be in a place where tourism is huge. And while Orlando (they made their intentions clear that they want this) may have a larger tourism market than Tampa, our tourism market isn't so bad and we also have some history when it comes to the city and wrestling.

Should I give it a shot to hit up the tourism commission about this?
Who knows, maybe my email did some convincing on this. :)

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/2011/03/30/wwe-looking-to-build-hall-of-fame-complex-in-tampa-wvideo/

By GEORGE WILKENS | The Tampa Tribune
Published: April 18, 2011
Updated: 04/18/2011 12:10 pm

TAMPA - A Kennedy Boulevard building that housed the Seven Seas nude-dancing lounge for decades - until the operator was evicted last year – will become an upscale restaurant and bar.
Ryan Quinn, owner of two South Tampa restaurants, said extensive renovations are under way that will enable him to open Fire Bar and Grill at the site, 3023 W. Kennedy Blvd., by summer.
Quinn is owner-operator of The Bungalow restaurant and bar, 2202 W. Kennedy, and Deck Pizza & Pub, 2202 W. Platt St. His partner on the Fire Bar and Grill project is Carey Maynell of WestCoast Construction.
"We had to gut it completely," Quinn said of the 3,100-square-foot concrete-block building he recently leased for his newest venture. "It's going to be 100 percent renovated; we're keeping three walls and the floor." The work will total $500,000, he said.
The transformation from a nondescript 58-year-old building housing a seedy lounge to a modern upscale restaurant comes in wake of the eviction of the Seven Seas operator for nonpayment of rent.
Hours after the May 7 eviction, John Few, whose grandparents bought the property in 1947, painted over a larger-than-life sketch of a naked woman on the building's east exterior wall. Likewise, he obliterated a similar bawdy image on the curbside sign for the business. Eviction culminated a 12-year legal battle, Few said.
In the 1950s, the building's tenant was a whiskey bar called Seven Seas. In the early 1970s when Tampa adult-entertainment magnate Joe Redner bought the lease, it became "a strip joint," Few said. In the 1970s and '80s, Seven Seas was among nine nude-dancing lounges targeted by Tampa City Council's ambitious efforts to close, or at least hamstring, such establishments.
The Fire Bar and Grill menu will include fillets, New York strip steaks, fresh pasta, pizza and more, said Quinn. "It's going to be an expanded menu, a little more upscale."
The restaurant will feature 10-foot-tall mahogany doors and seat 160 people, indoors and outdoors, Quinn said. From the side bar, patrons will be able to see pizzas prepared and put into a coal-fired oven, which cooks at a higher temperature than wood-burning stoves.
A large front porch will have "air curtains" which produce a barrier of high-speed air like those used at Walt Disney World and many Las Vegas casinos. "That way we can keep the front open and still be cool in the Florida heat," while providing a clear view of the boulevard, Quinn said.
"It's sure going to be much better than what it was before," Few said of the property, which is next to Miguel's Mexican Café, on the corner of MacDill Avenue.
Describing the new tenant as "a fantastic restaurateur and good friend," Few said Quinn did an amazing restoration to transform a 1919 bungalow "into a nice thriving restaurant." The Bungalow, which opened in 2008 after a two-year renovation, has hardwood floors, brick accent walls and mosaic tile hearth, plus a broad, rustic front porch for al fresco dining.
gwilkens@tampatrib.com

Thought I'd put this article in this thread. This is indeed what Tampa needs (more non chain restaurants.)
Sounds pretty real and promising if they are putting half a mil into it. I don't think Kennedy is much of an ambience though.

Kennedy has so much potentially and this city comes up with a vision and idea on what it should look like and they ignore it and allow things like the Tampa General Hospital and that two-story building with a fence around the parking lot to happen. Espicially around the UT area, SO MUCH FREAKING POTENTIAL and no one from the city has any intentions in making the area what it should be.

Why can't Tampa have something like this? We have a bay for christ sakes for those people in them renders to look at. And yet, nothing here in Tampa! :bash:

Some nice new renderings were released today of the roof top of the new Hyatt Hotel and Skye Condo devlopement, f.k.a. The Park.

Info: http://www.centercityliving.com/2011/04/skye-condos/

The approximately 8,000 square foot rooftop restaurant includes indoor/outdoor seating with private dining, outdoor lounge and “sky” bar with walls that open up to the roof area, which includes the pool and sun deck in approximately 7,800 square feet of open space walkways, green roof and seating areas.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad189/taylorlangston09/2-1.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad189/taylorlangston09/CCLRendering-1.png

We have Armani's.

Why can't Tampa have something like this? We have a bay for christ sakes for those people in them renders to look at. And yet, nothing here in Tampa! :bash:
I wouldn't mind more green roofs and usable rooftop spaces, but that looks like someone just slapped a middle school onto the roof of an ugly residential building.

I wouldn't mind more green roofs and usable rooftop spaces, but that looks like someone just slapped a middle school onto the roof of an ugly residential building.

Why Mike? Because it would be way to "urban" for our precious, suburbanized Tampa. (sarcasm). But yeah Koop, it would be better on top of an office building or hotel in Westshore or DT.

Why Mike? Because it would be way to "urban" for our precious, suburbanized Tampa. (sarcasm). But yeah Koop, it would be better on top of an office building or hotel in Westshore or DT.
Well, that's true. And the building it is on top of is a hotel and condos, so it isn't entirely residential. And comparing what I can see of this Hyatt and our new Hyatt on Rocky Point, I would take this one.

Honestly I think if its not OBVIOUS, people won't go. They aren't used to the idea of driving to an address and than having to go looking around a building for something (even though that is exactly what they do when they go to a mall). People used to be amazed when I interned at Sen Graham's office that I would park three blocks away, walk, take an elevator, and than find a subdivided unit. Too many people expect to park the car and walk in the front door. The percentage of the population that work in the DT is pretty small, so the whole "urban" thing is really foreign.

Why can't Tampa have something like this? We have a bay for christ sakes for those people in them renders to look at. And yet, nothing here in Tampa! :bash:

Not just Tampa but so many cities also , in Casablanca my hometown same thing why why why a big international city like Casablanca nothing like that either , here in Orlando we also deserve more shame shame shame stupid local authorities but anyway I love Tampa it is a great place to go and visit , I always have a good time there

Honestly I think if its not OBVIOUS, people won't go. They aren't used to the idea of driving to an address and than having to go looking around a building for something (even though that is exactly what they do when they go to a mall). People used to be amazed when I interned at Sen Graham's office that I would park three blocks away, walk, take an elevator, and than find a subdivided unit. Too many people expect to park the car and walk in the front door. The percentage of the population that work in the DT is pretty small, so the whole "urban" thing is really foreign.

I know what you mean. If the suburbanites cant have convenient parking then they just won't bother. Off topic, but when IKEA was announced, the article said it would be in downtown. They knew better. If it was downtown, people wouldn't be able to drive in and park like a big mall.

I know what you mean. If the suburbanites cant have convenient parking then they just won't bother.
Someday, people will figure out that we're fundamentally better off not bothering at all.

There are a few rooftop clubs in Bangkok. Very elegant, and the view is astonishing.

But you'd better have a firm grip on your belongings and your cocktail - or check the weather service for 'winds aloft' before going. Even at the old Samaritaine on the Seine, high winds meant there were many, many days one preferred to dine indoors.

The thing is, the bay area can get windy, however I used to spend many an evening (cheap date junior college days) on the observation deck at the pier without noticing any wind at all. However I think to be consistently profitable, you would probably have to cap out at the height of Skypoint's amenities deck to be safe.

Article in tbo.com in "South Tampa" titled "Kennedy Boulevard: the next trendy hub? but when you click on it, there's nothing as if the writer started something and didn't finish it. WTF

Article in tbo.com in "South Tampa" titled "Kennedy Boulevard: the next trendy hub? but when you click on it, there's nothing as if the writer started something and didn't finish it. WTF
Shame. It would be nice to know that there is someone in the media world that can see the potential of Kennedy Blvd. as many of us on here do.

By TBO.COM
Published: May 02, 2011
Updated: May 02, 2011 - 1:01 AM
» 10 Comments | Post a Comment
SOUTH TAMPA --
Move over Ybor City, Channelside and SoHo. Kennedy Boulevard is coming of age, making its mark as an emerging destination for trendy late-night entertainment.
In the wake of design standards imposed by the city in 2006, the once-neglected boulevard that attracted prostitutes, drug dealers and other shady characters increasingly is enticing investors willing to rehabilitate buildings as upscale bistros, cafes and clubs.
The boulevard's nightlife was a draw for Lady Gaga last month. The singer/songwriter popped in at The Kennedy, "a boutique lounge," after her April 16 concert at the downtown St. Pete Times Forum. The scantily clad entertainer joined the club's DJ on stage and wowed the 2 a.m. club crowd of 350 people with a surprise performance of her new single, "Judas," captured on cell phone cameras and posted on YouTube by scores of fans.
Two blocks east of the stylish club at 2408 W. Kennedy Blvd., another relative newcomer to the scene also keeps late hours.
The Bungalow, a restaurant and bar, opened in 2008 after an extensive two-year renovation of a 1919 bungalow at 2202 W. Kennedy Blvd.
The venture proved successful enough to inspire Ryan Quinn, one of The Bungalow's three owners, to make another sizeable investment converting a notorious Kennedy Boulevard structure into an upscale restaurant and bar.
Quinn has leased the building that housed Seven Seas, a seedy nude-dancing lounge that operated from the 1970s until last spring, when the operator was evicted for nonpayment of rent.
A $500,000 investment by Quinn and business partner Carey Maynell, owner of West Coast Construction, will transform the 58-year-old building at 3023 W. Kennedy Blvd. into Fire Bar and Grill, slated to open this summer.
The 3,100-square-foot concrete-block structure has been gutted and one wall will be removed to accommodate the 160-seat restaurant that will offer an expanded menu to include steaks, pasta and more, plus pizza cooked in a coal-fired oven.
"Air curtains" that produce a barrier of high-speed air will provide front-porch patrons a clear and comfortable view of Kennedy Boulevard, without the Florida heat.
Like The Bungalow, the new property will include flat-screen televisions and will stay open well past midnight when crowds warrant it, especially during televised sporting events.
The Bungalow, with a Floridian-Caribbean theme for its décor, menu and singer/guitarist entertainment, "has an outdoorsy feel," especially on the large front porch, Quinn said. The establishment draws an eclectic crowd. "We have younger people that come in, and older people; it's all across the board," he said.
Quinn, who also owns Deck Pizza & Pub, 2202 W. Platt St., said he favors the Hyde Park area for his restaurants.
"I think that's a huge area; things do well there," he said. "I think Kennedy [Boulevard] is a little harder because it's not in that Hyde Park area, but you still have that neighborhood-type feel, which I think is something more important than being on Dale Mabry" Highway, he said.
In an effort to make the boulevard an inviting gateway to downtown and the picturesque University of Tampa, in 2006 city leaders approved design standards for the stretch of Kennedy from Himes Avenue to the Hillsborough River. Kennedy Boulevard Overlay District standards apply to new construction as well as structures that undergo major renovations.
Those standards dictate buildings must reach the sidewalk, front doors must face Kennedy Boulevard and parking is limited to the sides and rear of buildings.
Amenities property owners must provide include decorative street lamps every 56 feet and brick pavers on sidewalks every 14 feet.
Such requirements add substantially to renovation projects in the district. In addition to signage restrictions and other mandates, The Bungalow project required the purchase of two special-order street lamps at $17,000, Quinn said.
Kennedy Boulevard – which has some stretches that average 47,000 vehicles daily – was resurfaced in the fall of 2009.
Soon after, a beautification project provided trees and other plantings in 13 medians from the river, west to Woodlynne Avenue. The state's Department of Transportation paid $295,000 for the plants, installation, drip irrigation system and improvements to a stretch of Kennedy Boulevard sidewalk between North Willow Avenue and Delaware Street.
The following spring, the state agency picked up the tab again, replacing 11 Christmas palms and other median plantings that did not survive the exceptionally cold Florida winter.
"From a tourism perspective, it's great to be able to offer more dining and nightlife options for visitors and residents alike," Travis Claytor,a spokesman for Tampa Bay & Company, said of recent Kennedy Boulevard developments. The not-for-profit organization represents more than 700 businesses throughout Tampa and promotes the area as a destination for conventions and visitors.
"When visitors come to Tampa," Claytor said, "we want to give them the true Tampa experience. And to have more options outside downtown Tampa or Ybor City or the West Shore district is great; it adds to the overall package we are able to deliver to visitors who come here for leisure travel or for business travel."

gwilkens@tampatrib.com
(813) 259-7124

In an effort to make the boulevard an inviting gateway to downtown and the picturesque University of Tampa, in 2006 city leaders approved design standards for the stretch of Kennedy from Himes Avenue to the Hillsborough River. Kennedy Boulevard Overlay District standards apply to new construction as well as structures that undergo major renovations.
Those standards dictate buildings must reach the sidewalk, front doors must face Kennedy Boulevard and parking is limited to the sides and rear of buildings.
This is theory, not reality... The reality is that these rules only apply to property owners who lack the proper political connections. If you're a big local player like UT, USF, TGH, Wal-Mart, etc, these rules simply don't apply to you, no matter how much it makes a mockery of the very planning process that is supposedly the law of the land. In retrospect, the law won't do much to make the corridor truly pedestrian friendly, which leaves it functioning as little more than a mandated shakedown of property owners. Either enforce the regulations of the overlay district equally, as is constitutionally required, or abolish it.

^^
It doesn't make sense to treat all entities equally when they are providing different services on different-sized lots.

And of the ones you have mentioned, save the retail part of the TGH development, it's not really sensible to conform to the guidelines.

^^
It doesn't make sense to treat all entities equally when they are providing different services on different-sized lots.

And of the ones you have mentioned, save the retail part of the TGH development, it's not really sensible to conform to the guidelines.
Besides University of Tampa, they are 100% capable of following through the guidelines. Wal-Mart is testing out more urban stores that are smaller and can fit in cities. Still, even if they weren't, nothing stops them from designing a building that can handle parking in a garage and have a store setting where it reflects well from the street and provides the street interaction. TGH had all the oppurtunity of following the guidelines, and BS excuse how the hospital couldn't follow through as just that, BS.

Besides University of Tampa, they are 100% capable of following through the guidelines. Wal-Mart is testing out more urban stores that are smaller and can fit in cities. Still, even if they weren't, nothing stops them from designing a building that can handle parking in a garage and have a store setting where it reflects well from the street and provides the street interaction. TGH had all the oppurtunity of following the guidelines, and BS excuse how the hospital couldn't follow through as just that, BS.
The issue is not whether they can comply, it is whether they should be forced to. As I said before, we are talking about various types of structures. There is a difference between a 1500 square foot restaurant that includes awnings, outdoor seating, and shade trees, and a Wal-Mart. I don't care how much Wal-Mart has experimented with urban stores, nothing they do is going to make their buildings "urban". There is more to urban design and planning than building a garage and eliminating setback.

By nature, homogenous boxy structures, particularly those that are wider than they are tall and lacking multiple retail opportunities, look like crap. Putting them right against a sidewalk creates the illusion of a giant wall and is overwhelming for pedestrians. Walking by is akin to a minnow swimming across the mouth of a whale. Check out the new(ish) "urban" Publix on Azeele as an example...

Blanket guidelines are not a solution.

(And all that said, the Wal-Mart is not really even on Kennedy, so all the talk about it in particular is pretty much moot.)

Yea - the rules should apply to all. If not, there is no reason to have an overlay. IT doesn't really matter anyway, unless half the buildings on Kennedy are bulldozed and rebuilt as urban buildings (I have no hope there will ever be rail around Kennedy) it will be an unsightly mishmash

The rules sound kinda strict and small businesses may go elsewhere because of it. That would totally suck if they built a WM on Kennedy and knowing Tampa, it could happen. I hope there is no more fast food restaurants and pharmacies on Kennedy from now on. Now the new restaurant is going to have a coal fire pizza. I hope it's as good as Anthony's.

^I doubt they could be as good as Anthony's. I love that frickin place. Pizza, wings and meatballs!

^I doubt they could be as good as Anthony's. I love that frickin place. Pizza, wings and meatballs!

I highly recommend it (Anthony's). I think I'll try the wings next time.

IMHO, it should be looked at as a privilege by developers, restaurant owners, hotels, and retailers to open up in Downtown and areas that the city is willing to redevelop. Kennedy Blvd, from Armenia to the bridge, should be looked at as a privilege and should follow through with all the guidelines and requirements that the city puts out. If they want to open their restaurant or store in Tampa but don't want to follow through with the design guidelines, that's alright. There is numerous other areas in Tampa that they can open up, but they shouldn't be allowed to bypass the guidelines because they don't want to follow through with them. University of Tampa is an exception because it is an university, but TGH had all the capabilities of developing a project that benefited the Kennedy Blvd. and followed through with what the city expected. Same goes for the two story corporate center with WALLS!