SkyscraperCity Forum banner

[E] Spain | road infrastructure • autopistas y autovías

3M views 12K replies 451 participants last post by  alserrod 
#1 ·
I just happened to stumple across it while looking at google earth, and the network they have there is pretty breath-taking, especially by European standards. A few ring roads, tollways, C+D setups, and more freeway to freeway interchanges than I can count, compared to our 2 here in Sydney :( Not to mention plenty of lanes on each.

Anyway, does someone have some context or explaination of what's driving this huge boom in freeways? Wikipedia doesn't have a single thing to say about Madrid's roads, believe it or not, and I can't find much else on the net, so any comments from locals or people in the know, you're welcome.



I mean, jesus christ, just south-east of the city they have 9 full on interchanges covering an area that appears to be practically empty, if i'm missing something I would love to know.

Edit: Oh, nice forums here by the way, glad I found 'em.
 
See less See more
1
#7,681 ·
Wow, thank you very much for this!

I'm shocked, to be honest. I thought much of the infrastructure dated from earlier, possibly even the 1970's. It's hard to imagine traffic using the old N-340 through Fuengirola in the 1980's, especially as many of the big hotels and apartments were built in the 1970's and 1980's.

It's a shame to see how Fuengirola and Benalmadena have wrecked the old coast road, too. The exit from the A-7 towards Benalmadena now has some really intolerable limits, including large sections of 30km/h which is just far, far too slow.

I wonder if there were already plans for the current AP-7 to be built when they were planning the Malaga-Marbella section? It would make sense as to why they upgraded the N-340 in such a poor way, because it only had to last 10 years before being replaced by a proper motorway. I used the Fuengirola-Malaga section of the old N-340 a lot in the 1990's, but I don't remember if the Fuengirola-Benalmadena section was signed as autovia or not.
What you're saying have been common issues all across Spain. Development, especially in the coast, was too fast for state budgets to provide adequate infrastructure on time. Tourism boomed in the 1960s and 70s and roads couldn't simply cope with that. In the 1980s, a compromise was met by upgrading existing roads into first-generation autovías like A-7 in Costa del Sol. The then-MOPU (now called Fomento) was of course aware that it would not take long before this substandard roads needed upgrading, but a dual-carriageway, partially grade-separated road was better than nothing and Spain experienced a heavy reduction on traffic fatalities during the 1990s.

Fuengirola-Benalmádena has still old autovía signage (light blue on white background) in some points so it was likely an autovía from the beginning. About the local governments downgrading the road and setting (and sometimes enforcing) funny speed limits -that's commonplace in Spain. Transferring roads to local councils should be banned.

Plans for AP-7 might have been drawn in the 1980s (I honestly don't know), but upgrading the coastal road was a real urgency back then, and toll concessionaires weren't interested on new projects in that years. The first-generation toll motorways (AP-7, AP-6, AP-1) flopped and they didn't become profitable until the 1990s.
 
#7,682 ·
In the 1980s, a compromise was met by upgrading existing roads into first-generation autovías like A-7 in Costa del Sol. The then-MOPU (now called Fomento) was of course aware that it would not take long before this substandard roads needed upgrading, but a dual-carriageway, partially grade-separated road was better than nothing and Spain experienced a heavy reduction on traffic fatalities during the 1990s.
Aha, so that's why the A-4 (old N-IV) had such a dangerous route through the mountains north of Cordoba until recently? It makes much more sense now - it was a matter of getting the roads built, rather than worrying about the design standards.

Fuengirola-Benalmádena has still old autovía signage (light blue on white background) in some points so it was likely an autovía from the beginning.
Yes, it's strange, because there's a roundabout in Fuengirola here that has the blue on white signage too. There's an even stranger sign here that makes it look like an autovia and not a city street.

The first-generation toll motorways (AP-7, AP-6, AP-1) flopped and they didn't become profitable until the 1990s.
Is that why the AP-1 for many years only had the short section from Burgos to Armiñón? I always wondered why there was such a large toll-free section between Madrid and Burgos, while the AP-1 seemed to just sit there in the middle of nowhere between two good quality autovias.

Thank you very much for your insight, it's appreciated :)
 
#7,683 ·
Aha, so that's why the A-4 (old N-IV) had such a dangerous route through the mountains north of Cordoba until recently? It makes much more sense now - it was a matter of getting the roads built, rather than worrying about the design standards.



Yes, it's strange, because there's a roundabout in Fuengirola here that has the blue on white signage too. There's an even stranger sign here that makes it look like an autovia and not a city street.



Is that why the AP-1 for many years only had the short section from Burgos to Armiñón? I always wondered why there was such a large toll-free section between Madrid and Burgos, while the AP-1 seemed to just sit there in the middle of nowhere between two good quality autovias.

Thank you very much for your insight, it's appreciated :)
Yes, the A-4 (then N-IV) was one of the routes to be widened in the first nation-wide autovía plan (Plan Felipe). N-I, N-II, and N-IV were the roads most impacted by that plan. In many stretches the existing carriageway (built to 1960s REDIA standards, which meant two wide lanes and shoulders) was re-used and a new one was built alongside it. Many right-in, right-out junctions were kept, on- and off-ramps were substandard and the alignment was that of the 1960s road, so even the newer carriageway was substandard. N-IV in Despeñaperros was upgraded in the 1980s by adding a second carriageway on a completely different alignment, but the original pass, built in the 1930s, remained in use as the northbound lanes.

And yes the AP-1 was meant to connect Madrid and Burgos -in fact there was a very ambitious plan for all routes become toll motorways in the 1970s. But demand on AP-1, AP-2 and AP-68 didn't match the expectations (after all, Spain is very empty and even with current car ownership rates these motorways often carry less than 10k vehicles per day) and banks pulled back their interest. That's why Spain chose to build these routes as autovías in the 1980s and 90s, with the first "experiment" being N-620 (now A-62).

As for signage on "lost" autovías there are countless examples across Spain -former N-I in San Sebastián de los Reyes is another case.
 
#7,684 ·
Sorry for OT but go for Scotland. It has way more interesting drives.

And Tenerife is fun to drive. Has anything, from busy motorways to some crazy narrow mountain roads, like TF-436, road to Masca.

There are plenty of flight there and car rental is cheap and easy to arrange.
Is it cheap to get ferries between different islands with a car in tow? Or it best to fly and rent cars on each island?
 
#7,685 ·
Is it cheap to get ferries between different islands with a car in tow? Or it best to fly and rent cars on each island?


Both and depends on a lot of things.

For instance... renting a car has the same price for residents and non-residents (a Spaniard who doesn't live there is non-resident), but ferries, planes and so on have half price for them

Prices can change too much depending of season... even if having double (or more) cost. That can change your decission



And... you can find residents who takes a flight and rent a car or who takes a ferry.... but renting cars is so usual that makes barely public transport. People arrive to an island and looks for a renting car instead of a bus schedule.
 
#7,686 ·
Sorry for OT but go for Scotland. It has way more interesting drives.
I'm not sure that's true. While Scotland does have more in number of interesting drives and more mileage of interesting drives due to being bigger, and possibly some drives that are more interesting, I don't think it has 'way more'.

It's very much a can't lose situation - either is good. And I think Suburbanist will like the South Wales Valleys' post-industrial landscape and scenery more than the wild and remote coastline of Sutherland.
 
#7,692 ·
^^ That section is still pending reconstruction (if ever it's done). Tarancon to Atalaya was already rebuilt a few years ago as part of the first generation autovía refurbishment program that also saw the reconstruction of parts of A-1, A-2, A-4 and A-31 (A-2 got lucky and was rebuilt all the way!) and I don't know what happened with it. The sections that didn't get contracted at first were to be rebuilt at a later date, and then A-5, A-6 between Adanero and Benavente, A-62 between Burgos and Tordesillas and A-2 between Igualada and Martorell were to be reconstructed in a second phase. At least they are going to do the delayed section of A-1 between San Sebastian de los Reyes and El Molar.

Also, they should adjust kmposts as soon as possible. I measured A-2 between kmposts 193 (Ariza) and 312 (Z-40 interchange) a while ago and got 113.2 km (5.8 km are "missing"), including a section between exits 244 (NE of Calatayud) and 255 (El Frasno) which is only 7.2 km long.
 
#7,693 ·
^^ Traffic figures on A-3 do not show the real burden of this road which is seasonal traffic. Intermittent traffic jams all the way between Madrid and Valencia are not uncommon in summer.
To be absolutely honest I don't think that countries should upgrade specific roads because of summer traffic...even if summer lasts longer in Spain than most countries I can think of.

People who 'need' to get to the coast always have the option of travelling at night unless it is a single day trip...no matter where you are in Europe. :)
 
#7,694 ·
I am on the early stages of planning a trip July next year. Options are the hinterland of Portugal, Galicia and Andalucia, or Madeira, one of the Canary Islands and Wales or Scotland.
I wouldn't recommend you visiting inland Galicia, inland Portugal or inland Andalusia in July, unless you enjoy hot weather (>35 °C at midday) and addapt to the local way of living (mornings and evenings/nights available, afternoons staying at home). If your stay is along the coastline or you travel in early July, it can be fine anyway.

N-IV in Despeñaperros was upgraded in the 1980s by adding a second carriageway on a completely different alignment, but the original pass, built in the 1930s, remained in use as the northbound lanes.
This is not completely accurate. When the new alignment was built, it was decided to split it in two halves as such: northbound was first old alignment and the new one, southbound was first the old one, then the new alignment. The point where one changed alignment was at the exit of Aldeaquemada, laying more or less at the middle of the strecht.
 
#7,695 ·
To be absolutely honest I don't think that countries should upgrade specific roads because of summer traffic...even if summer lasts longer in Spain than most countries I can think of.

People who 'need' to get to the coast always have the option of travelling at night unless it is a single day trip...no matter where you are in Europe. :)
To be absolutely honest I don't think that spending the summers in the crowded beaches of Valencia and Alicante along with the rest of Madrid is a good idea. But most people don't agree with me, nor with you.
 
#7,697 ·
Average volumes on A-3 are quite low though, 22000 - 25000 vehicles per day. Those summer peaks must be real outliers. Even in France they typically do not widen a motorway for summer peaks until the average AADT is around 40000.
A 2 lane motorway can handle around 60000 AADT before it chokes up...if that is year round.

Summer peaks (ASDT) only last 2 months in France and Croatia...but probably longer in Spain. :)

Relatively few countries break out ASDT data on its own but to justify widening the A3 it would want to be a long peak where the ASDT is well over 50000 for 3 months at least.
 
#7,698 ·
I wouldn't count on a very high 3 month average on A-3. Unlike say A7-A9 in France, it doesn't carry a continuous flow of holiday traffic throughout the summer. Peak traffic on A-3 will be much shorter, around weekends and start of vacation, as Madrid leaves to the coast.

AP-36 was designed to handle those peak traffic flows but few people want to pay the toll. The AADT figures above shows that it carries only 2,800 - 3,100 vehicles per day for the most part.
 
Top