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4M views 8K replies 647 participants last post by  TM_Germany 
#1 ·
This is probably the biggest reconstruction project in Germany right now. The area around the Frauenkirche will be rebuilt in a classic and modern way which means that most buildings will be reconstructed along with some modern additions.

























 
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#2,241 · (Edited)
that reconstruction will not achieve the effect of the original.
Oh, it definitely will. Just give it time. Patina ain't a matter of just some months.

Several reconstructions across the globe prove how reconstructions age naturally and thus approach a state that comes closer to the initial structure.
Besides being crafted in a very careful manner, close to the originals.

Just check out Warsaw Old Town, the Long Market of Danzig, Rothenburg, Würzburg Residence, Montecassino, Governor's Palace of Williamsburg, Kinkaku-ji in Kyoto, Prinzipalmarkt in Münster, the Campanile, Market square of Hildesheim, Tsurphu Monastery, Kazan Cathedral, Basilica of Assisi etc.pp.


On a sidenote, it'd be ridiculous to give buildings an artificial "aged look", that's what I'd call Las Vegas / Disneyland. Buildings have to age in a natural way and that's just what happens with reconstructions.

Reconstructing buildings is a centuries old practice, so I don't understand why people still act like it would be something totally odd and arrived out of the blue recently. It belongs to our culture to restore beauty and art!
 
#2,242 · (Edited)
Yes, time does heal all wounds and ivy redeems even mediocre architecture, however, I can't say that about Dresden yet, because I won't be there for another couple of weeks. But as for Warsaw, it should be noted that ironically some of the major landmark buildings were rebuilt from scratch but using the same construction elements even gothic brick, window frames were hewn by craftsmen and no precast elements were used...I think this is what lends it authenticity. The old town of Warsaw's reconstruction commenced shortly after its destructions so thousands of original elements were salvaged and reincorporated and millions of bricks were also salvaged, but what is not generally known, is that almost all of the basements and their vaulted ceilings were saved and many building facades were saved. The biggest challenge with reconstruction is proportion, building components and the technology used will have its distinct stamp on the final appearance.

From the pictures, the pseudo-historic reconstructions in Dresden remind me more of Elblag...looks very nice in both cases, but its a different approach to restoration.

Elbląg
 
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#2,247 ·
The whole point of what? That reconstruction, if undertaken, should be undertaken in a manner which actually recreates or attempts to recreate the original rather than create a reinterpretation and mishmash? All I'm saying is that it the overall effect of Dresden's efforts, as commendable as they may be, is lost through reinterpretations of historic buildings rather than reconstruction. One of the interesting aspects of the reconstruction of Dresden's key monuments that I learned at the Zwinger is that the complex of buildings around it was actually permitted to be reconstructed using Western funds through the Marshall Plan. So, Dresden unlike Warsaw was given Western development assistance.
 
#2,248 ·
Do you know, Germany was divided in two states: GDR and West Germany. :nuts:
And Dresden was located in the communist state GDR. There was no money from the Marshall Plan.
 
#2,249 ·
Well, Warsaw had no Marshall Plan at all just maybe some technical or material help from USSR (offset by considerable plunder by said), but then again the approach to restoration has changed in 60 years as well. My question is, is the reason for not reconstructing this quarter due to the lack of any reliable original plans - were they lost in the bombings?
 
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#2,256 ·
There was and remains a signficant resource of reliable plans, maps, and site surveys of Dresden pre-1945, but the rebuild was simply out of the question for two main reasons--no money and the communist desire to maintain a war-torn, rubble dominated city scape in order to keep the populus under their firm control.

Germany was largely destroy by Churchill's bombing craze. No mid-to large cities escaped major destruction with few exceptions. When the war was over, very isolated, notable buildings were rebuilt, but the dire need for housing and other infrastructure quickly led to the requirement to build fast and cheap...and modernesque. So the semi hodge podge of reconstruction is less a function of poor German planning, rather the blame lies at Churchill's feet for having destroyed the cities unnecessarily in the first place.
 
#2,250 ·
There are many evil people in Germany, the majority you find in politics. These people are of no use but to destroy this country. And their influence is growing. It was their decision to redestroy the marketplace with modern style cheap f***ed up b***sh**
 
#2,257 · (Edited)
you know, this might be a turning point in history :), but I sympathize with our German neighbours when it comes to Churchill - he stabbed us in tbe back after all we did for so-called Allies and let Poland and your East Germany to be re-occupied, f__king prick! Destroying a nation's treasures, culture is so dehumanizing but unfortunately it works as Freidrich Pabst surmised :(
 
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#2,261 ·
I can understand why the Neumarkt leaves an artificial impression for some visitors and locals. It's still not the thriving urban city center which it is supposed to become. But at least the current architecture provides a very good groundwork upon which a new and thriving city center might be created in the years to come. New shops and pubs could open and some of them might become also very attractive for locals. More accommodations, museums, libraries cinemas might be built and are needed. And the city should accommodate more of it's administration in the city center so that the center becomes important for a Dresdner's daily life.

I just think you have to give Dresden's new center some time and it will start to flourish.

The city is full aware that the city center doesn't attract to many locals and just recently cunducted a survey about how to make the Neumarkt more lively and attractive for inhabitants. The main answer given was to built more apartments.
 
#2,263 ·
I personnally believe the survey results are valid. The original neumarkt area of conconcentrated 3-5 story houses were mostly apartments on the upper 2-3 floors. It would be great if the Parnaischer platz area would be rebuilt with baroque style apartment row houses with a longer range plan to convert the buildings along wilsdruffer str to the same.
 
#2,267 · (Edited)
Munich's city center for example is being transformed into a big mall at the moment. As soon as a lease agreement is ending for a pub or a bar the building is being sold to some investor who either builds luxury apartments or opens a H&M or other fashion branch. It is acknowledged by the city that this is a big problem. But there aren't a lot of possibilities how the city could intervene to keep some more bars in the old town and to stop this trend. Slow but steady Munich's pedestrian area is being turned into a museum after the shops close at 8 o'clock. You won't find the cool bars and parties in the center. Some tourists who vistit Munich are wondering why Munich seems like a dead place on Sundays or in the evening. They assume that they will find bars in the pedestrian city center, but there are just a few. Unlike in Dresden or Warsaw there aren't many big malls in Munich. Actually only about 3 which are all mostly in the outskirts. That's why all the shooping takes place in the center. On the upside this makes the center much more dynamic, cause old bulidungs are being torn down and new are being build and the streets are packed until 8 o'clock with people. But on the downside the pedestrian zone turns quickly into a graveyard after 8 o'clock cause the cool and hip places have been replaced by Gucci stores. This feeling is strengthened cause there are only few and expensive apartments in the center and the habitans of these apartments use them as a secondary residence. Every year for New Year's Eve masses of mainly Italian tourists occupy the center while all locals are avoiding the center. Not due the influx of tourists but due to the lack of party possibilities.

So even if you have such a thriving city center and packed pedastrian zone during daylight like the one in Munich there are a lot of problems and reasons why the locals prefer to hang out in other parts of the city in the evening.
 
#2,270 ·
Mine post is an answer to the other members saying that even rebuilding the neumarkt as it was before IIWW, it's not possible rebuilt the same atmosphere and the same social dynamics of the old Dresden. I think is not this a reason to not rebuilt it, because it would be changed anyway: the new Neumarkt is full of hotels, shops, and offices like any other centre of any other city of Europe that survived at the war
 
#2,273 ·
Excellent points. Progress will take place or a nation/urban area will be left to the whims of tourists who may want to experience the past for a few moments. very risky for the vitality of a city. what dresden is doing and what it sounds like Munich is as well is a 21st century solution for staying alive and dynamic. The hot and hip night spots will return if there is demand, for sure, just like demand is driving the daytime crowds.
 
#2,271 ·
The only possibility to avoid a city center full of only shopping malls and offices is rent regulated housing. But that sounds communistic to Germans... ahhm West Germans I mean. :D
AFAIK Vienna has such rent regulations in the old town. I know that many locals, who don't have the luck to live in the center, complain about it, but I think these regulations are one reason why Viennas old town doesn't feel like Eurodisney. Just compare Vienna and Prague and you know what I mean.
 
#2,281 ·
No further discussions about politics and bombings in this thread, pals! It's about the sole re/construction project in Dresden.


I deleted the latest posts and will delete further ones on political/bombing issues, so don't waste your time. Thanks for your attention.
 
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