Tampa Bay Ferry Service

[TampaMike]

I'm expecting more to come from this in the near future, so I'll make a offcial thread for it and we can discuss and post more news about this and anything else that Pinellas, St. Petersburg, Tampa, or any other city comes out with.

Tampa's Downtown Partnership Fact Sheet:
http://www.tampasdowntown.com/userfi...2010_07-26.pdf

Preliminary Routes:
http://www.tampasdowntown.com/userfi...2010_07-15.pdf

Survey:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/waterferry_stakeholder

[tampasteve]

Apparently the study has started:

Studies Underway For Proposed Tampa Bay Ferry
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 07, 2010

ALTERNATIVE ENERGY, ENGINEERING, ENVIRONMENT, GOVERNMENT, SUSTAINABILITY, TOURISM, TRANSIT, TRANSPORTATION
TAMPA
What if Tampa, like Seattle, had ferry service across its waterway?

That's what officials from the Hillsborough County Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) are wondering. They've hired Jacobs Engineering and Cambridge Systematics to conduct preliminary studies to explore the possibility of a circular ferry route across Tampa Bay.

The rest of the article: http://www.83degreesmedia.com/devnews/ferry090710.aspx

Steve

[joey7f]

Would the ferry service be an autoferry or just passenger?

A passenger only service I think would be less useful but would probably speed up boarding times.

--Joey

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by joey7f

Would the ferry service be an autoferry or just passenger?

A passenger only service I think would be less useful but would probably speed up boarding times.

--Joey

I have not heard mention of an auto ferry, so I suppose it is simply passenger service. Honestly, the time it would take to get the autos on and off and then across the bay would probably negate any time saved on a normal basis. I would use passenger service to go from Tampa to DT St. Pete reasonably often, especially for Rays games.

Steve

[smiley]

Yea, I think this will get going about 20 years after the rail service is built out

[FlaNatv]

Not really Tampa Bay service, but I wonder if a Tampa to Houston ferry would work. ...cut out all those miles.

[TampaMike]

If they have plans for Cuba and Mexico ferry service, I don't see how a Tampa to Houston or even a Tampa to Brownsville service would be a problem. Would the price be worth it though?

[tampasteve]

Missed some critical updates for the potential ferry service. It looks like the initial route would be between Mac Dill and Apollo Beach. The most recent study info comes from October 2011.

Hills MPO Ferry Study Main Page

[tampasteve]

Well, it looks like this may finally be moving forward! The first route envisioned is the Gibsonton-MacDill Base with possible weekend and evening service between Tampa-St. Pete and other points.

Full article:
http://tbo.com/news/business/propose...ic-b82494790z1

By Ted Jackovics | Tribune Staff
Published: May 23, 2013
TAMPA - A nationally regarded water transportation company has stepped forward to operate a high-speed ferry service for the Tampa-St. Petersburg area.

HMS Ferries Inc., whose companies carry more than 16 million passengers annually from multiple ferry services in the Seattle area to cruises serving Alcatraz and Niagara Falls, announced preliminary plans Wednesday for a project that could provide high-speed ferry service here in about two years.

The concept would be based on core morning and late-afternoon commuting runs between south Hillsborough County and MacDill Air Force Base, providing a transportation option for 5,300 military families that could take thousands of cars off roadways and save commuters 30 minutes of driving time. The ferries would carry passengers, not their cars.

The same catamaran-type vessels, capable of speeds as fast as 35 knots, would be available to operate on weekends and possible midweek, off-peak hours between St. Petersburg and sites to be determined in Tampa. Those routes could serve events at the Forum, the Tampa Convention Center and Tropicana Field with shuttle service.

HMS’s involvement in the project is expected to create a true public-private partnership, a frequently discussed concept that can be difficult to achieve.

Transit ferries normally require a subsidy to operate, Dronkert said. But in the case of the MacDill commuter route and other runs built around that service, preliminary studies indicate the privately held company could successfully operate without local or state subsidies for operations, with HMS taking any risk for annual operating costs, estimated to be about $3.5 million at the onset.

Most ferry services use public-sector terminals, docks and facilities, just as airlines use public-sector airports, so the next step toward making the ferry plan feasible would be for a local entity, perhaps the county government, to seek federal funding for infrastructure.

Initial costs for vessels that would carry about 250 to 300 people and connecting trams at MacDill Air Force Base would be about $7 million.

Waterways, docks, parking and ferry terminal costs are estimated at $9 million to $11 million, although a pilot operation could reduce those costs to $4 million.

HMS Ferries would finance all capital assets, so the initial public investment would be less than $1.5 million a year in phased increments.

HMS would operate the ferry and the terminals. If the project were to fall short of expectations and shut down, the government would retain all assets and improvements.

[HARTride 2012]

Unless vehicular ferries are available, no ferry plan will ever work for the Tampa Bay area.

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

Unless vehicular ferries are available, no ferry plan will ever work for the Tampa Bay area.

I respectfully disagree. The Tampa Bay area has a potential for a decent ferry system. Gibsonton to MacDill is a great start for the commuters going to the base, and there are about 3,000 in the immediate area of the proposed ferry dock there.

Do not think of a ferry taxi, that is a waste of resources, think fixed route ferry docks and routes. Likely only a few routes are viable at this time.

Tampa to St. Pete could work, though I would recommend a smaller ferry to start. There are a fair amount of people that travel between the down town areas for business and also tourists that might travel from St. Pete to Tampa for the museums and conventions. It makes it really viable to park/stay in either down town and go to the other for business or pleasure. Particularly I am thinking people that work or live near either down town and want to go to a sports event or event at the TCC but do not desire to fight traffic after work.

Also, Westshore to St. Pete could work in a similar fashion.

A key will be to have connecting bus service and bike services. Tampa has the bike service under works, and it would not be hard for St. Pete to design and deploy, and they already have better bike infrastructure built.

[I-275westcoastfl]

I don't see this working very well either but we will see. This idea is an old one, I remember 10 years ago knowing this guy who had a company hovercraft in his backyard that was supposed to be the ferry between downtown St. Petersburg and Tampa. Never happened obviously.

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

I don't see this working very well either but we will see. This idea is an old one, I remember 10 years ago knowing this guy who had a company hovercraft in his backyard that was supposed to be the ferry between downtown St. Petersburg and Tampa. Never happened obviously.

Interesting. Even 10 years ago hovercraft were a dying mode of transit (and clearly were never implemented on a large scale globally for transit with only a few deployments, most notably the English Channel), so it would seem he was certainly behind the ball on that one.

This is a different model. This starter line is able to be deployed on a bare bones route with some minimal terminal improvements (primarily parking) and relatively inexpensive vehicles. If downtown Tampa and St. Pete are added the docking facilities are essentially already ready (if one reads the docs from a while back), so the investment up front is very low. The first route developed should be a winner given the captive market going from the area serviced to the base. Then the other routes can be tested for events and weekends given that the docking facilities are more or less already in place.

[Szemeredy]

Times have changed, though. Tampa Bay is much more built up than it was 10 years ago. Even South Shore, an area that was expected to develop quickly back in the 70s but never did, has finally started to blossom. The problem right now is that we still have areas of the bay that are completely lacking in transit and other facilities needed to make the grid work. We've certainly made small strides toward improvement, but the time has come to kick the pace up a couple notches.

At this point, any mode of transit that is offered up should at least be implemented on a basic level to learn how people interact with it and where we should focus our efforts to improve the viability and efficiency of expanded service. We don't necessarily need something on the level of the Staten Island Ferry to start off with, but it's a goal to work toward.

[kmthurman]

I am very skeptical of the financial numbers on this specific proposal. But there is no doubt that water transit needs to be included in Tampa Bay transit plans.

[HARTride 2012]

I can already see the state saying NO to funding any sort of ferry proposal, unless Tricky Rick can see some crazy ROI that fits his criteria. I don't think the legislature will go along with it either.

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by kmthurman

I am very skeptical of the financial numbers on this specific proposal. But there is no doubt that water transit needs to be included in Tampa Bay transit plans.

Skepticism is warranted and valid with any transit proposal, that is true.

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

I can already see the state saying NO to funding any sort of ferry proposal, unless Tricky Rick can see some crazy ROI that fits his criteria. I don't think the legislature will go along with it either.

At this time the operator is proposing a public/private enterprise with the private company taking the financial risk and they are not proposing a state or local subsidy - according to the article that is.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by tampasteve

At this time the operator is proposing a public/private enterprise with the private company taking the financial risk and they are not proposing a state or local subsidy - according to the article that is.

Well don't always believe what you read in the paper. They want Fed (or state or local) govt to buy the boats & docks, give them to the company, and they'll run service without OPERATING subsidy. $24 million or more upfront was the last number I heard.

I am not sure I believe the numbers on profitability either though. They seem to estimate 1500 passengers a day paying about $325 a month each or $6 million in fares annually. Whether that works or not I don't really know, just seems like if they don't hit 1500 I am not sure the money will cover their costs.

[Jasonhouse]

They want roughly $47 million in subsidies over 30yrs. Roughly $1.5mil per year.

$24 mil is the phony cash price.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

They want roughly $47 million in subsidies over 30yrs. Roughly $1.5mil per year.

$24 mil is the phony cash price.

So they don't want us to buy the boats but pay off their loans?