Why many people say Arabian Gulf cities look "Fake " and "Soulless" ?

[Skyprince]

Fake ? Soulless ??!! For real !!????

In fact- I found that the opposite is true- that Arabian Gulf cities like Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Muscat are the last places on earth you can ever call "Fake"/ Soulless

One of the major reasons why I love visiting Arab Gulf countries like UAE is their traditional charm, which is very wonderfully presented UAE cities are wonderful blend of local Gulf, Pakistani, Indian, Iranian, the rest of Arabs, and many parts of the world get together, extremely full of life and soul ! I haven't seen/been to any such lively, colourful and cheerful country like UAE ( and everyone is so nice , be the native Emirati and expats too ! )

All cities in the Gulf which I visited are overhelmingly traditional , including the hyper-modern Dubai- I found most of the random places I went to in Dubai are full of traditional shophouses, traditional street cafes in Arabian, South Asian and Western style .

Even I found the traditional charm of Arab Gulf countries more attractive than in the rest of Arabia which I visited . The prosperity in GCC makes traditional districts in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Doha etc very lively and highly functional filled with tons of traditional shops, restaurants etc selling good quality products.

No where in the world I've seen local people ( Emiratis, Omanis etc . ) wearing their traditional dress whenever they stay out. Including when going to work !

Some people cite the flat barren land as "looking fake", but for me coming from tropical country I found desert landscape and clear blue sky very interesting & exotic sight ! The non-stop sunshine & clear blue sky makes cities look very beautiful and so colourful ! Not to forget Dubai, Abu Dhabi , Ajman, etc have wonderful crystal-clear beaches , located right next to city centres.

So I don't see in what way Arabian Gulf cities especially in UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait etc look "fake and soulless " ?

Take for example ( my own photos ) ..

Dubai, United Arab Emirates
-Dubai is FULL of these such traditional areas








Ajman, United Arab Emirates

[Manila-X]

Cities like Dubai gets these kinds of criticisms because the majority of people here or even outside The Middle East mostly see the new developments including The Burj Khalifa. They do not see the traditional side of the city especially the pictures you have posted.

There are other things. For one, Dubai is one of the few "minority-majority" cities in the world where native Emiratis are part of the minority. The majority are those from South Asia where most of them are blue collared workers. This is not just Dubai but the entire UAE. Another criticism is the "notable" people in the city. Other than of course the sultans, sheikhs and businessmen, how often do you hear known artists, entertainers, scientists, poets, sports-people who are natives of Dubai?

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by Manila-X

Cities like Dubai gets these kinds of criticisms because the majority of people here or even outside The Middle East mostly see the new developments including The Burj Khalifa. They do not see the traditional side of the city especially the pictures you have posted.

There are other things. For one, Dubai is one of the few "minority-majority" cities in the world where native Emiratis are part of the minority. The majority are those from South Asia where most of them are blue collared workers. This is not just Dubai but the entire UAE. Another criticism is the "notable" people in the city. Other than of course the sultans, sheikhs and businessmen, how often do you hear known artists, entertainers, scientists, poets, sports-people who are natives of Dubai?

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam ? or Seoul ?

Dubai is Dubai... it is simply what it is- a city with small native population and huge number of expats who mostly coming in and out of it. The "newer" parts of Dubai actually feels really small when compared to older parts & districts of Dubai.

Originally Posted by joshsam

Lol, to be honest the pics you posted look like crap.

It's those new cities, It's just skycrapers in roads, cars everywhere, no pedestrians and nothing around it. That's why they say that.

the old Dubai is ok, but the new Dubai is hardly what you can call a city. It's just supertalls in a desert, a bunch of hotels and shoppingmalls and 50 highways crossings between them. I looks more like giant office parks instead of a city. That's not the sterotype city people have in mind and it's indeed soulles and empty if compaired to other cities around the world, althoug USA has it's nice share of empty cities too.

But this subject has been discussed so many times, and no-one ever came out. Some people like cities that, others don't...

Originally Posted by goschio

Cheap concrete architecture. Whats so traditional and charming about that?

They look crap to many but they are highly functional, full of traditional facets, it is what Dubai is about. So what to be shamed about ?

My point is not about how crap/ugly buildings/architecture looks like- my point is Dubai is what it is- a city full of tradition, soul, a mix of different cultures which are well-represented .

Look at Dubai's pics 50-60 years ago, full of such streetshops.

Dubai is a mix of Gulf, Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, India etc. and many other cultures mixed together

And since I've been to Dubai for 7 times so far , I can simply say most of what u said about Dubai is wrong- it is hot with non-stop sunshine during daytime- but at night Dubai is full of street activities, extremely vibrant city with bustling dining and shopping activity.

Originally Posted by RonnieR

I think Skyprince wanted to show that beyond those skyscrapers , the new highways, modern mass transport system and malls in Dubai, at the heart of the city lies the traditional cafes, restaurants and stores that are teeming with people. It is a proof that Dubai's culture and traditions are intact despite its rapid progress.

Indeed Ronnie bro. When I first visited the Gulf back in 2006 I never expected such a vibrant, colourful, hospitable, dynamic and progressive place

[DiggerD21]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

but at night Dubai is full of street activities, extremely vibrant city with bustling dining and shopping activity.

Dining and Shopping = vibrant city? How sad, this commercialism.
What about culture? Concerts, Theatre, Arts exhibitions etc. I don't speak of high profile (in other words: commercialized) stuff, but the more hidden, underground scene. Dubai is not known at all for that. And basically those few I met who went to Dubai or planned to go there, wanted to go for making lots of money in short time and then come back to their home countries.

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by DiggerD21

Dining and Shopping = vibrant city? How sad, this commercialism.
What about culture? Concerts, Theatre, Arts exhibitions etc. I don't speak of high profile (in other words: commercialized) stuff, but the more hidden, underground scene. Dubai is not known at all for that. And basically those few I met who went to Dubai or planned to go there, wanted to go for making lots of money in short time and then come back to their home countries.

Again, the way many Westerners look at "Culture" could be different from East.

Dubai is influenced by Khaleeji ( Arabian Gulf )/Bedouin culture and they have their own unique music/entertainment. Also it's influenced by religion of Islam.
Also it's home to huge Pakistani, Indian and Iranian people- thus the very strong influence from those nearby countries.

And where else in the world where natives wear their traditional dress extensively, most of the time ? I can only name Bhutan .

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by DiggerD21

Dining and Shopping = vibrant city? How sad, this commercialism.
What about culture? Concerts, Theatre, Arts exhibitions etc. I don't speak of high profile (in other words: commercialized) stuff, but the more hidden, underground scene. Dubai is not known at all for that. And basically those few I met who went to Dubai or planned to go there, wanted to go for making lots of money in short time and then come back to their home countries.

Culture is what I'm talking about especially urban culture, the visual and performing arts, entertainment, poetry. This is what brings life to a city.

This is what gave London, New York or Paris it's character. Same with HK, Manila, Mexico City or even KL.

Dubai can spend millions of Dirham bringing in big talents say Madonna or Ricky Martin but does not have it's own local talents to shine.

How about arts, music, literature? Any prominent people from Dubai into this scene?

[aquaticko]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam? Or Seoul?

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.

Dubai is Dubai... it is simply what it is- a city with small native population and huge number of expats who mostly coming in and out of it. The "newer" parts of Dubai actually feels really small when compared to older parts & districts of Dubai.

And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.

They look crap to many but they are highly functional, full of traditional facets, it is what Dubai is about. So what to be shamed about ?

My point is not about how crap/ugly buildings/architecture looks like- my point is Dubai is what it is- a city full of tradition, soul, a mix of different cultures which are well-represented.

Look at Dubai's pics 50-60 years ago, full of such streetshops.

Dubai is a mix of Gulf, Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, India etc. and many other cultures mixed together

And since I've been to Dubai for 7 times so far , I can simply say most of what u said about Dubai is wrong- it is hot with non-stop sunshine during daytime- but at night Dubai is full of street activities, extremely vibrant city with bustling dining and shopping activity.

Indeed Ronnie bro. When I first visited the Gulf back in 2006 I never expected such a vibrant, colourful, hospitable, dynamic and progressive place

Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by aquaticko

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.



And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.



Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

Wow, this is very interesting read

[Manila-X]

Originally Posted by aquaticko

You're from Kuala Lumpur yet you are unaware of the Korean Wave? There are dozens of people from Seoul who are know by a global population, even if it remains relatively small in absolute number. There's also the fact that most globally-known Korean corporations are based in Seoul, and that the Seoul metro area is the second-most populated in the world. And Amsterdam is known for being a very artsy city, never mind that the Netherlands as a whole has produced a lot of art and innovation historically, and of course Amsterdam is the representative city of that country in most people's minds. Whether or not it's a fair picture of the UAE, the image is of being just an oil fiefdom.



And even with your pictures, how often is the older side of Dubai shown? Most people know Dubai, if they know it at all, as the home of the tallest building in the world. Even most people on here, myself included, know it first and foremost as home to one of the most intense and immense skyscraper construction booms in history.



Again, this just gets back to the problem of how Dubai is often seen. It looks like an architectual playground, and is often advertised as such in the media, so people either don't bother to look further into it or assume it must be true. And I think that places that are crossroads ought to play themselves up as such, and try and make sure that everyone sees such places the way they deserve to be seen. And progressive is a relative term; as an American, I still can't help but see Dubai, and the rest of the Emirates, as nothing more than a rich man's playground, with little concern for anyone or anyone else (the situation of immigrant laborers there is particularly disconcerting, as is the energy usage of a country that could probably get 100% of its electricity from solar power).

Any city, of any size, is probably going to be thought of as lifeless and dead unless people know for certain that that's not the case. If the only thing that you're worried about here is perception, a negative one about Dubai and the UAE with you think is incorrect, then don't be concerned. The important thing is that Dubai and the UAE are seen as the most developed, progressive, and important country of all of the Middle East to people in the West, save perhaps for Israel, and people will eventually realize that that means it must be lively and full of energy.

Plus The Olympics as the case with Seoul.



Can Dubai show the same flair?

[turigamot]

Originally Posted by Manila-X

Plus The Olympics as the case with Seoul.



Can Dubai show the same flair?

Eh... I wouldn't really use that as an example. Because that is just as superficial as Dubai's built-for-no-reason supertalls.

The cultural dance that was shown *is* something that would make a city stand out, and be worth visiting. Like Rio's Carnival, or American street musicians.



(watch the whole thing)

This is what makes cities *not* superficial and fake. Their unique cultural identity.

But the problem of Dubai is what Dubai itself presents to the rest of the world: they don't show old Dubai. They want people to see the skyscrapers. And the rest of the world isn't all that impressed.

[citypia]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam ? or Seoul ?

Famous artists, entertainers from Seoul.
These are the example.
Sumi Jo
image hosted on flickr

Flickr에서 Hyundaicapital님의 현대캐피탈 Invitational 조수미 파크콘서트

Kim Yunjin
image hosted on flickr

Flickr에서 T.O.P_GDragon님의 Yunjin Kim (Sun Kwon)

The most famous person from Seoul. Do you know who he is?
image hosted on flickr

[Manila-X]

edit

[kwonphilip]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam ? or Seoul ?

Really? Like, I don't know, a great majority of K-pop singers, actors(some of the highest paid in the world outside of the USA), and idols? Or the man who cloned the first dog, or world's first metal typewrite a long time ago, and so on?
For the great majority of people in the USA, the western world, Japan and Korea, the only thing they know for the gulf cities are high buildings and oil money

[Skyprince]

Originally Posted by kwonphilip

I am from the east, and has lived some years in Southeast Asia as well as Korea, and i still think your pictures are pretty bad

But Singapore, KL, Jakarta, Egyptian cities etc are full of such old structures, which aren't as solid as what u can find in South Korea, Japan, Europe etc.
It could be the weather, as in hot climate, we don't need to consider weather-proofing too much .

Originally Posted by kwonphilip

Really? Like, I don't know, a great majority of K-pop singers, actors(some of the highest paid in the world outside of the USA), and idols? Or the man who cloned the first dog, or world's first metal typewrite a long time ago, and so on?
For the great majority of people in the USA, the western world, Japan and Korea, the only thing they know for the gulf cities are high buildings and oil money

But not many people from outside Middle East know about celebrities/pop-singers/ idols from Yemen, Syria, Oman, Jordan etc. but we never call these places "Soulless". Why is that ?

[citypia]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

But not many people from outside Middle East know about celebrities/pop-singers/ idols from Yemen, Syria, Oman, Jordan etc. but we never call these places "Soulless". Why is that ?

I think this is a kind of western concept, the way of thinking or people's perception, NOT asian concept, at least NOT korean concept.

When I learnt English, the word like "soulless" is weird somewhat interesting.
If there is a soulless city, it would be a soul city somewhere. Where is a soul city? What is it like? (Of course, I know the word has lots of meaning beyond its literal meanings.)

On the contrary, there is ANIMISM in Korea, which everything has its spirit, especially when people make something, the spirit goes inside in it and beacome meaningful to people, even stones, steel and buildings.

My point is there is no expression like "soulless" in old korean thinking.
In korea, no one call a city as a soulless city or full of soul city. Maybe we can describe a city desolate, bleak or dreary, not soulless.

Anyway,Why did you bring Seoul as a kind of bad example here in this thread?
Usually, people are thinking as much as they know.

[kwonphilip]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

But Singapore, KL, Jakarta, Egyptian cities etc are full of such old structures, which aren't as solid as what u can find in South Korea, Japan, Europe etc.
It could be the weather, as in hot climate, we don't need to consider weather-proofing too much .



But not many people from outside Middle East know about celebrities/pop-singers/ idols from Yemen, Syria, Oman, Jordan etc. but we never call these places "Soulless". Why is that ?

Yes, but like I said, I have lived or at least visited Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and Vietnam, and, though i believe there are traditional areas in Dubai and such, I think there could have been much better pictures. Of course, this is just a hypothesis, and may not be true.

[briker]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

Indeed, but I can hardly name famous artists, entertainers, scientists, pets etc who are originally from say, Amsterdam ? or Seoul ?

ooh, bad comparison!!
Amsterdam, glorious capital of a former colonial power and still a vibrant, metropolis?
Seoul, a 2000+year old city, capital of the Han dynasty, and now a world design mega world city of 10 million people?

[joshsam]

Lol, to be honest the pics you posted look like crap.

It's those new cities, It's just skycrapers in roads, cars everywhere, no pedestrians and nothing around it. That's why they say that.

the old Dubai is ok, but the new Dubai is hardly what you can call a city. It's just supertalls in a desert, a bunch of hotels and shoppingmalls and 50 highways crossings between them. I looks more like giant office parks instead of a city. That's not the sterotype city people have in mind and it's indeed soulles and empty if compaired to other cities around the world, althoug USA has it's nice share of empty cities too.

But this subject has been discussed so many times, and no-one ever came out. Some people like cities that, others don't...

[goschio]

Originally Posted by Skyprince

[/IMG]

Cheap concrete architecture. Whats so traditional and charming about that?

[RonnieR]

Originally Posted by goschio

Cheap concrete architecture. Whats so traditional and charming about that?

I think Skyprince wanted to show that beyond those skyscrapers , the new highways, modern mass transport system and malls in Dubai, at the heart of the city lies the traditional cafes, restaurants and stores that are teeming with people. It is a proof that Dubai's culture and traditions are intact despite its rapid progress.