Liverpool Waters

[Doug Roberts]

Ok, this is the area of Peels central dock estate. Clarence Dock powerstation used to occupy part of this area, there is a lot of land available here but does anyone think Peel may fill in some of the docks??

Also, I'm not sure how far east Peel's ownership goes, does it go beyond Waterloo Road and into the street grid?? Maybe a new Northern Line station could be built in the Glegg Street area.

[Tony Sebo]

Liverpool waters is a terrible name

This area is the famed Northshore... nice and historic.

[JUXTAPOL]

Well we will find out on Tue/Wed whether they do some infill, but i think they won't infill. Salisbury/Collingwood/Stanley docks looks like a great spot for a marina, with some overhanging buildings. The thin strip on the waterfrons should be an extension of the waterfront promenade open to the public.

[DanS10]

Has anyone on here got full access to the AJ? yesterdays news update said Peel plans second massive Merseyside regeneration scheme and it had an image of an impressive cluster of tall buildings. Unfortunately I dont have full access to cannot decide whether its old news about Wirral Waters, or fresh news regarding Liverpool Waters.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by DanS10

Has anyone on here got full access to the AJ? yesterdays news update said Peel plans second massive Merseyside regeneration scheme and it had an image of an impressive cluster of tall buildings. Unfortunately I dont have full access to cannot decide whether its old news about Wirral Waters, or fresh news regarding Liverpool Waters.

Dan it will be about the new Liverpool waters scheme but I doubt they'll be telling us anything we don't already know.I haven't got access to AJ but all will be revealed next Tuesday anyway.

[Awayo]

Yep, Paul's right, the article was about Liverpool Waters. However, the image they used was the familiar one of Peel's Wirral Waters scheme that can be seen upthread. I guess that Peel have not released to the press yet any images of Liverpool Waters, but we should have the opportunitiy to see some renders after the launch of the scheme on Tuesday.

[Paul D]

My hope on Tuesday is for the Stanley Dock warehouse to be given priority in phase one.I'd love to see the Kitgrove plan with the floating restaurants become a reality,what a fantastic place that would be.I know Peel were in talks with Kitgrove over SDW so you never know.

[woody]

Originally Posted by Paul D

My hope on Tuesday is for the Stanley Dock warehouse to be given priority in phase one.I'd love to see the Kitgrove plan with the floating restaurants become a reality,what a fantastic place that would be.I know Peel were in talks with Kitgrove over SDW so you never know.

Is anybody is going to save the SDW ? .....Peel will do the honours, a perfect aknowledgement to the history of this dock, it may also soften the shock to the heritage lobby when Peel go public on plans for a few 50 storey towers

[bustcapl]

what time tomorrow can we expect to hear about this?

[TheMerseyOrange]

It'll certainly be interesting to find out exactly what the extent of this now apparently 150 acre site actually is.



^This pic of the 2005 port map shows, in red, MDHC's pre-Peel version of the Central Docks development site, an area which only totals around 85 acres even including all the existing waterspaces. If you include the big 10 acre square block of the Stanley Dock area (that bounded by Regent Rd, Gt Howard St, Saltney St and Walter St) you reach the 95 acre figure quoted by MDHC in the past but are still over 50 acres short of this apparently revised 150 acre number so unless someone has their figures wrong the extent of this scheme will be rather larger than the map suggests.

Originally Posted by Doug Roberts

Clarence Dock powerstation used to occupy part of this area, there is a lot of land available here but does anyone think Peel may fill in some of the docks??

I'd say (and hope) that wouldn't be the case, Doug, at least not infilling on a grand scale. Bramley Moore, Nelson, Collingwood, Salisbury and Stanley docks, as well as the Clarence graving docks are all constituent parts of the world heritage site and so should be safe from any suggestion of infilling. The two most vunerable docks in that respect are Wellington and Trafalgar. Wellington isn't in use at present and isn't part of the WHS but is, admittedly, next to the Sandon water treatment plant and so might have a role as some kind of buffer area. Trafalgar, too, is out of commercial use (except for the canal link cut), lies outside of the WHS and its infilling would provide a very usable expanse of riverfront land. It's also a dock which, following its radical remodelling in the past (in truth it shouldn't really be called 'Trafalgar' at all), simply no longer possesses the same historic significance or physical integrity as the above-mentioned docks to the north. IMO, Trafalgar dock doesn't warrant the same level of protection granted elsewhere.

I expect we'll see some relatively modest infilling and quayside realignment work in and around the West Waterloo/ Waterloo river entrance area, the same sort of work planned for around Vittoria Dock in Birkenhead. In truth the construction of the Waterloo river entrance made a bit of a mess of that area and some judicious quayside realignment there could create some very valuable development space whilst still enabling the reshaping of West Waterloo dock back to its original (well, at least post 1860s) and more historically appropriate dimensions mirroring those of the East Waterloo branch.

Roll on tomorrow....

[the golden vision]

M.O. if Peel are including the Stanley Dock warehouse as development land/area , the warehouse itself has floor area of 36 acres,in total Stanley Dock with both warehouses and water area would be nearly 50 acres. Perhaps this might explain it.

[TheMerseyOrange]

Originally Posted by the golden vision

M.O. if Peel are including the Stanley Dock warehouse as development land/area , the warehouse itself has floor area of 36 acres,in total Stanley Dock with both warehouses and water area would be nearly 50 acres. Perhaps this might explain it.

I hadn't thought of it that way, GV - bit too left field for me but thinking along those lines though, this is supposed to be a 21m sq ft project which equates to a surface area of 482 acres and nobody's mentioned a number like that yet. It looks like Peel are (as MDHC were before them) quite prepared to sacrifice their Woodside business park in the name of 'masterplanned progress' so maybe the extra acreage comes from equally expendable areas next to the published Central Docks site. Or, of course, it could be that the DP are simply reporting the wrong figures...

[woody]

Originally Posted by TheMerseyOrange

I. Or, of course, it could be that the DP are simply reporting the wrong figures...

MO, the DP again stated today that this site would accomodate 25,000 homes, this cannot correct. The old MDHC plan called for 1800 homes, to put this into some sort of perspective, King Eddys 2 x 50 storey towers allows for just over 500 apartments, so LW would need 100 x 50 storey towers to accomodate 25,000 people,assuming of course that all homes would be in towers. Even 2,500 homes would need 10 x 50 storey towers.

The DP was getting all excited with "21st Century Overhead Railway" .... the suggested monorail, which I still think is "pie in the sky" , poor capacity and would run through the WHS, I don`t think so

Still we don`t have long to wait, to find out Peels true intentions, MO the increase in arces may mean that the King Eddys steel sheds next to Princes are also part of this mega plan.

[LABlue]

The DP was getting all excited with "21st Century Overhead Railway" .... the suggested monorail, which I still think is "pie in the sky" , poor capacity and would run through the WHS, I don`t think so

This may be better on the Merseytram thread but theres a major development near here looking at transport options for a 5 mile plus system

see the attached article - The great park is a project to turn a former airforce base into a huge park

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1296516.php

The vegas monorail is said to be having financial problems already. Whatever we get it had better be sustainable ! I cant help feelng that Merseytram was/is the right answer and could have just been extended with another line up into Central Docks. One line to the new EFC in Kirkby, one to Central Docks and third to the Airport. A loop around city center - works for me !

[jets9]

There must be a big temptation for Peel to go beyond the 'central docks' zone and move commercial development further north as part of what is a comprehensive planning framework for the next 30-40 years. The port is going through a bit of a purple patch at the moment and Liverpool north docks can very often have 15 ocean going vessels in port but the great majority of them are invariably moored towards Seaforth/gladstone/canada.

http://www.aisliverpool.org.uk/curre...LiverpoolDocks


a regular view of the gas.cam site shows the fascinating shipping coming and goings in the mersey......peel are sitting on a development land goldmine

[Gazzab]

Originally Posted by jets9

There must be a big temptation for Peel to go beyond the 'central docks' zone and move commercial development further north as part of what is a comprehensive planning framework for the next 30-40 years. The port is going through a bit of a purple patch at the moment and Liverpool north docks can very often have 15 ocean going vessels in port but the great majority of them are invariably moored towards Seaforth/gladstone/canada.

http://www.aisliverpool.org.uk/curre...LiverpoolDocks


a regular view of the gas.cam site shows the fascinating shipping coming and goings in the mersey......peel are sitting on a development land goldmine

Good job the Argies couldn't access something like that during the Falklands war.

[TheMerseyOrange]

I was sceptical about that 25,000 figure too, Woody - the equivalent of 200 West Towers or 50 Brunswick Quays in apartment terms being intended for Liverpool Waters seemed absurd. However, I read back through Peel's own press release for Wirral Waters and that claims ''over 15,000" new homes and up to 25,000 new residents as the target figures for WW so maybe they really do mean 25,000 homes for the apparently even larger scaled Liverpool Waters.

[the golden vision]

No, it just doesn't make sense.Even it was 25,000 people and not homes it would make the highest population density in Europe by a long way.The equivalent of 100,000 people per sq mile.Somebody has got their facts wrong or Peel are going overboard with the hype.

[dups45]

ur forgetting how large stanley dock is, but it isnt really feasble considering the lack of ventiation and natural light each apartment would get. Id love it to be made into an arena convention centre....yes i no we already have one, or how about that trade centre someone mentioned.

You never know, it could become the new home of Tate Liverpool

[dups45]

Oooh this week is going to be interesting.

Liverpool Waters
Liverpool V Barcelona
and....Exam results! eek