NZ | Roads + Infrastructure

[KIWIKAAS]

To start, I have the following question.

What is the difference between a solid white centerline and a double yellow line?

[KIWIKAAS]

I have offen seen campers and hire cars making the manoeuvre as illustrated with the red line. As far as I know there is no other country where a right turn lane is marked in such a manner.



Would this not be better?

[Cartel]

In regards to your second post. No. I believe it works very well in NZ and any kind of change to that you mentioned would be rediculous. As for the tourists, there is no need to conform to europan standards - they should learn our road rules - and properly- just as they should when attempting to drive in any country that is foriegn to them. There is no excuse for their idiotic and slow driving in their camper vans they need to sort their shit out or get off our roads.

And as for your first post. 1 - yes you can legally pass on a white line either broken or unbroken.

2 - I do not believe you will find a driveway in to which you could even consider to turn as these double yellows are most commonly found on state highways in the country side. If say you did - you WOULD be allowed to pull into a driveway, if you could not you would have to do a u-turn - breaking the double yellow anyway. To say that you could not would be ludacris.

[Kane007]

Yes I see a lot of uneducated nimwhits doing this dumb maneuver. Ah if turning right at the above intersection you are meant to drive across the broken lines so as not to be a hinderer to the remainder of traffic!

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by Kane007

Yes I see a lot of uneducated nimwhits doing this dumb maneuver. Ah if turning right at the above intersection you are meant to drive across the broken lines so as not to be a hinderer to the remainder of traffic!

As stated above. In EVERY other country the flushed area means ''Don't go there''. It is confusing to anyone coming from any other country.
Do you read the road code for every country you vist?

[Kane007]

Unfortunately I see this many times a day, everyday around the North Harbour industrial estate and Glenfield. In all honesty the likelihood that all these are tourists is very remote. Just your run of the mill white/blue collar kiwi workers or soccer mums who got their license and then promptly forgot the rules and how to drive!

[aucklandman]

Originally Posted by Cartel

In regards to your second post. No. I believe it works very well in NZ and any kind of change to that you mentioned would be rediculous. As for the tourists, there is no need to conform to europan standards - they should learn our road rules - and properly- just as they should when attempting to drive in any country that is foriegn to them. There is no excuse for their idiotic and slow driving in their camper vans they need to sort their shit out or get off our roads.

And as for your first post. 1 - yes you can legally pass on a white line either broken or unbroken.

2 - I do not believe you will find a driveway in to which you could even consider to turn as these double yellows are most commonly found on state highways in the country side. If say you did - you WOULD be allowed to pull into a driveway, if you could not you would have to do a u-turn - breaking the double yellow anyway. To say that you could not would be ludacris.

Yes I agree with this

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by Cartel

In regards to your second post. No. I believe it works very well in NZ and any kind of change to that you mentioned would be rediculous
As for the tourists, there is no need to conform to europan standards - they should learn our road rules - and properly- just as they should when attempting to drive in any country that is foriegn to them. .

NZ has been gradually changing signage and marking to conform to international standards for the last 20 years.

The fact is that the flush turning lane is not found anywhere else. Its unique in the world.

[KaneD]

As for the diagonal white hatched area before right turning bays, this isn't such a bad thing really.

In australia, you have a similar arrangement, but the lines are NOT intended to be driven on and are often covered in raised studs. Instead, you do the maneover like the red arrow in the above diagram which is of course stupid. In saying that, their actual road marking layout is a little different than here in NZ so it doesn't seem too much of an issue.

I don't think that altering the marking will really achieve anything. Yes, tourists would benefit from having similar road markings as in their country. But using that basis for change, we'd change almost everything about our roads, including driving on the right hand side.
The reality is that when ANYONE drives in a country that is foreign to them, the onus is on THEM to learn and understand the law of the road in the country they intend to drive on. The markings above I don't think are dis-similar enough to warrant changing.

What I do find needs changing is the God-Damn Left turn rule where we have to give way to oncoming right-turning traffic which is turning into the same street as you.

Aussie brought the rule in during the 1970's, and so did we. It was brought in to help reduce road congestion which at the time, worked well due to the typical road design and engineering of the day.

These days, our roads are engineered a little different and now that rule's benefit is now negated. Aussie have since changed back to the original rule like all other countries have. NZ is now the only country that I'm aware of which has the rule.

That is a rule that confuses people and causes a real danger to locals and tourists.

[KIWIKAAS]

Originally Posted by KaneD

As for the diagonal white hatched area before right turning bays, this isn't such a bad thing really.

In australia, you have a similar arrangement, but the lines are NOT intended to be driven on and are often covered in raised studs. Instead, you do the maneover like the red arrow in the above diagram which is of course stupid. In saying that, their actual road marking layout is a little different than here in NZ so it doesn't seem too much of an issue.

In other words the aussies just mark their roads like everyone else = flushed area means stay out.

I don't think that altering the marking will really achieve anything. Yes, tourists would benefit from having similar road markings as in their country. But using that basis for change, we'd change almost everything about our roads, including driving on the right hand side.
The reality is that when ANYONE drives in a country that is foreign to them, the onus is on THEM to learn and understand the law of the road in the country they intend to drive on. The markings above I don't think are dis-similar enough to warrant changing.

There is the issue of basic clarity. Every country has it's own differences but there are certain marking principles that are adhered to by most countries.

What I do find needs changing is the God-Damn Left turn rule where we have to give way to oncoming right-turning traffic which is turning into the same street as you.

Aussie brought the rule in during the 1970's, and so did we. It was brought in to help reduce road congestion which at the time, worked well due to the typical road design and engineering of the day.

These days, our roads are engineered a little different and now that rule's benefit is now negated. Aussie have since changed back to the original rule like all other countries have. NZ is now the only country that I'm aware of which has the rule.

That is a rule that confuses people and causes a real danger to locals and tourists.

Another example of a really dumb rule that should be done away with.

[KaneD]

Oh, as for that centre line issue as above?

Yes, there is some inconsistancy around the country as to what sort of markings various councils use and that does need sorting out.

The Solid Yellow Line means "do not cross" - This typically is used in passing lanes and approaches to intersections and typically refers to the banning of an 'overtaking' maneuver. A Double yellow line is the same, but the rule applies for traffic on both sides of the carriageway.

Technically, a solid yellow line means that crossing of the lines under any circumstance is prohibited. This includes turning into driveways and into side roads where there is no break in the lines. This rule holds true and is actively enforced in the US, but would seem loosely enforced here.

The broken yellow lines is a warning that you are approaching a continuous yellow line. Therefore you should not begin any move that would mean that you would be on the wrong side of the carriageway when the solid yellow line begins. If you are already on the other side of the carriageway when you see broken yellow lines, you must move back to your side of the road before the solid yellow line begins.

The Solid White Line is used in a number of areas and the rules are meant to be the same for wherever it is used, though there are exceptions.

1) Edge Line - Anything to the left of this line is the road shoulder. You may not cross the edge line during normal driving movements unless you are pulling over to stop (if stopping permitted), or are turning into or out of a driveway etc.

2) Lane Markings - Sometimes a solid white line is used between lanes travelling in the same direction. This line means "stay in lane". It is mostly used approaching intersections. It is also sometimes used on sharp curves, tunnels, and other areas where the changing lane maneuver might be a greater hazard than usual. On motorways, they sometimes use it to help reduce 'weaving' across lanes which causes capacity and safety issues.

3a) Centre Line - A centreline approaching an intersection serves as a warning of an intersection approaching, and also as a marker which shows drivers when they can make the actual turn move which is the break in the centre line at the intersection. Taking a wide angle turn by crossing the line early would be banned for example.

3b) Centre Line - The other use is rare in NZ but is occasionally used. It is probably the one area that has ambigious meaning... as I'll explain.

Typically it is used on a four lane arterial route and demarcs the opposite flows of traffic.

The problem is that in most cases where you have this road layout, you'd normally see a solid double yellow lines. BUT... it might be desirable to permit turning traffic into and out of driveways which the double yellow technically does not permit.

So, if the roading authority WANTs to permit those turns, the only line marking that is really permitted is a broken white line which is found on any normal highway or urban street.

The dilemma here is that since the road in question is a four laned road, there is no way for a driver to determine whether the next lane to the right of him is 'another lane going in his direction' or is an 'oncoming lane'. This is because all the inter-lane markings are the same.

In Australia, this arrangement is quite common and they solve it by making the centre lane a thicker broken white line. But it is still confusing and not immediately obvious especially if the paint is a little faded or worn.

So councils here seem to use the solid white line instead. While the white line normally means 'do not cross' during normal driving, it does allow crossing during such moves as turning into and out of driveways. This is similar to that of the edge line.

[aucklandman]

Yes the turning give way to the right rule is confusing to tourists, but so are alot of rules that are unique to our country.

I still feel that the rule of giving way to turning traffic is good, when the rule doesn't get used its because there is traffic behind the car that has to give way. This is usually on better designed roads, but on the smaller one lane roads which are still very common it still works well.

[KaneD]

Originally Posted by aucklandman

Yes the turning give way to the right rule is confusing to tourists, but so are alot of rules that are unique to our country.

I still feel that the rule of giving way to turning traffic is good, when the rule doesn't get used its because there is traffic behind the car that has to give way. This is usually on better designed roads, but on the smaller one lane roads which are still very common it still works well.

But the real issue with this rule is that it is awkward for local drivers here too.

If I am turning left and there is an oncoming car turning right, I have to not only look to him, but also behind me to see if there is another car going straight ahead which wold then permit me to turn left 'without' giving way, on the basis that he has to give way in turn.

That is distracting and annoying. Sometimes in a rear view mirror it can be hard to judge distance and speed of the car going straight ahead. This creates a hestitation 'stop - no I can go, no stop, oh yes, he is going straight, quick go'.

The general principle with driving is that a driver, when going forward, should only really be concerned about what is ahead of them - they should not have to be concerned with what is going on behind them.

[KIWIKAAS]

Pretty self explanatory...

Open Road (speed limit 80km or higher)



Urban / Town (speed limit <80km)

[Dazzle]

You guys need to get out more.
Just point the f**ken car forward and drive!

[KingKong1]

Originally Posted by Dazzle

You guys need to get out more.
Just point the f**ken car forward and drive!

lol, thats f**ken gold bro

[Milan Luka]

Im gonna use this thread to post my wish list for roading in NZ. Bear in mind this is utopia type stuff which would cost a fair few bob. Either way I dream of a day when our national roading consists of...

A triangular freeway network links the cities in the fastest growing areas of the country. Auckland/Hamilton/Tauranga. To be fair I think this really is necessary to start planning for now. They will thank us in 25 years for having the foresight.

SH1 motorway extension north is a damn good look but can we take it all the way to Whangarei please.

Another motorway system going north of Wellington all the way to Wanganui. This will bypass the Kapiti towns, Levin, Palmy, Feilding.

Dont forget Christchurch. A new motorway from Waipara in the north to Ashburton in the south running to the west of the airport. With excellent links to the city of course.

Dunedin probably doesnt need it. Due to geography there is really only two roads in and out of town and Transit NZ has done a good job there.

Other towns/city pairs that could benefit from a motorway link; Tauranga to Rotorua -- Picton/Blenheim to Nelson -- Hamilton/Taupo.

Bypasses for Timaru, Ashburton, Blenheim and Oamaru in the south as well.

[Svartmetall]

Originally Posted by Milan Luka

Im gonna use this thread to post my wish list for roading in NZ. Bear in mind this is utopia type stuff which would cost a fair few bob. Either way I dream of a day when our national roading consists of...

A triangular freeway network links the cities in the fastest growing areas of the country. Auckland/Hamilton/Tauranga. To be fair I think this really is necessary to start planning for now. They will thank us in 25 years for having the foresight.

SH1 motorway extension north is a damn good look but can we take it all the way to Whangarei please.

Another motorway system going north of Wellington all the way to Wanganui. This will bypass the Kapiti towns, Levin, Palmy, Feilding.

Dont forget Christchurch. A new motorway from Waipara in the north to Ashburton in the south running to the west of the airport. With excellent links to the city of course.

Dunedin probably doesnt need it. Due to geography there is really only two roads in and out of town and Transit NZ has done a good job there.

Other towns/city pairs that could benefit from a motorway link; Tauranga to Rotorua -- Picton/Blenheim to Nelson -- Hamilton/Taupo.

Bypasses for Timaru, Ashburton, Blenheim and Oamaru in the south as well.

Wow... That's a lot of roads... Goodbye "clean green".

[aucklandman]

Even though it could sound hypocritical I agree

[jarbury]

Imagine the cost of that proposal though.... we're talking what... $20-30 billion? Just to take possibly the most obvious motorway extension (that is not already planned or under construction), being Puhoi to Warkworth.

In order to reconstruct this road to motorway standard you'd have to do some incredible earthworks (unless you just 4-laned the existing road alignment, which would be pretty unacceptable. What are traffic movements along these other corridors too? I doubt the Picton-Blenheim road has particularly high volumes, Southland's population has been declining for decades, while the Desert Road is actually the quietest part of SH1 in the North Island (excluding north of Kaitaia I think).

With that kind of money you could probably have a high-speed electric rail system throughout NZ.

And think of what oil prices might be in 2030.... in my opinion there's a good chance of having less cars on the road than there are at the moment.