Sarasota/Bradenton Transit Thread

[HARTride 2012]

After seeing the SCAT BRT plans on the Sarasota Development thread, I decided to create a separate thread for the topic and SCAT (and MCAT too) in general since such things are not allowed in the development threads.

Personally, unless elevated lanes are built above US 41, I don't see BRT happening for SCAT. Its probably more practical to put monorail or LRT down the route.

[HARTride 2012]

I also noticed that SCAT is trying to up its fares a bit. Of course though, SCAT has one of the lowest bus fares in Florida. I don't think anyone can compare 50 cents on SCAT as opposed to $1.50 on HART (Tampa/Hillsborough Co).

[tampasteve]

It is my opinion that all of these "BRT" plans that SCAT/MCAT/PSTA/HART are planning are really just better bus routes and designs. Honestly, all of our bust stops should have shelters anyways, and they should have better buses on the more used routes. Real BRT, IMO, has seperated bus way lanes or even bus guide ways. These are just regular bus routes with GPS and better shelters pretending to be a LRT solution. I wish the bus comapnies, and the civic leaders, would jsut fes up to the fact that our buses should ALL be like this, and not call it BRT.

Steve

[HARTride 2012]

My point is, try putting dedicated BRT lanes down US 41 from DT Sarasota to SRQ Airport. It won't happen. US 41 is already a busy 6 lane highway. Putting dedicated BRT lanes would require one of a few options.

*Reducing regular traffic lanes to 4 (won't happen), placing the BRT lanes on the outer lanes.
*Doing option 1, but allowing the outer lanes to be open to regualar traffic as well (beats the purpose of dedicated BRT lanes. Or maybe not.)
*Building 2 elevated lanes (one in each direction) for the third lane of traffic and reducing the lower deck to four lanes (keeping the outer exisiting lane for BRT)
*Crosstown option: Three-lane reversible elevated express lanes with four local lanes below and the third/outer lanes for BRT.

[SDK4]

Well for one, we will not be seeing Light Rail as an option for a long time in Sarasota. Its tough enough to get the old people around here to pay for anything, so they certainly wont be footing a $500 million bill for a rail system. The best plan for the BRT I have seen, is adding new lanes along the rail line that runs directly past the airport, straight to DT Sarasota. While it would require new construction of lanes, we wouldnt have to take away any lanes on U.S. 41. What I want to know is if there is really enough demand for a bus from DT to the airport? Most people who ride SCAT are low income residents who dont have cars to begin with, so why would they be flying out of the airport? Then again I think the timeline for this project was to have it up and running sometime around 2011 or so, which by then DT Sarasota could have triple its existing hotel space, so maybe the demand will be there.

[HARTride 2012]

Yeah, but try widening 41. It doesn't look as easy to me as it may to you.

[SDK4]

Originally Posted by wslupecki

Yeah, but try widening 41. It doesn't look as easy to me as it may to you.

There is no room to expand US 41 north of DT to the airport. The road is crowded with homes, businesses, and motels, so the cost of buying land to widen the road would be way too high. There always the possibility of using the median for elevated lanes, but there is no way the NIMBYS here would let us remove a few trees and the "natural beauty" of Sarasota for important transportation infrastructure. The railway option is the only one that makes sense.

[iraqiman]

Well, this is 41 North of Downtown, so it is already only 4 lanes to the Airport. I think they have to be considering adding it to the rail line, because if they did any of the (expensive) options that wslupecki mentioned, there is many places that need it more. Bee Ridge to Downtown is about the same as Downtown to the Airport, but I could see that route being used a lot more as BRT.

It would also be kinda cool if they did something with the rail line South of Downtown.

[Jahi98]

Originally Posted by SDK4

Well for one, we will not be seeing Light Rail as an option for a long time in Sarasota. Its tough enough to get the old people around here to pay for anything, so they certainly wont be footing a $500 million bill for a rail system. The best plan for the BRT I have seen, is adding new lanes along the rail line that runs directly past the airport, straight to DT Sarasota. While it would require new construction of lanes, we wouldnt have to take away any lanes on U.S. 41. What I want to know is if there is really enough demand for a bus from DT to the airport? Most people who ride SCAT are low income residents who dont have cars to begin with, so why would they be flying out of the airport? Then again I think the timeline for this project was to have it up and running sometime around 2011 or so, which by then DT Sarasota could have triple its existing hotel space, so maybe the demand will be there.

The point of transit initiatives like BRT and light rail/commuter rail is to attract "choice" riders, or those that could drive but will choose to take public transit because of the convenience.

As for BRT anywhere, I think it needs to be in dedicated lanes. Otherwise, it's pointless.

[HARTride 2012]

Ugh! Don't any of you get it? YES, dedicated lanes for BRT would be required for a BRT system to be functional. But try tackling this issue with US 41. There is simply no way for such lanes to be put in without conflicting with existing traffic flow. There is no room for widening, and putting the BRT lanes on the outside existing lanes of 41 doesn't make much sense either if normal traffic is allowed to run on those lanes also.

In the long run, BRT won't work in Sarasota along 41. 301 from University to 41 may do fine because there is more R.O.W. available. LRT is the way to go...

[HARTride 2012]

Sarasota rapid bus transit system picking up speed
Sunday, October 21, 2007



SARASOTA (Bay News 9) -- Sarasota County Area Transit (SCAT) hopes a bus rapid transit system will help add to its 2 million riders a year.

"We think it will help tremendously," Anthony Beckford, Sarasota County Area Transit. "The bus moves at a much faster rate."

The rapid transit system would extend from the airport to Sarasota Memorial Hospital.

"The high cost of gasoline and high cost of parking would make transit a viable option," Beckford said.

Beckford said the bus rapid transit system could turn a 1 hour and 20 minute ride into a 20 minute ride.

He said it could be done with a dedicated lane for busses and tweaking the traffic signals.

"If it is in on existing roadways we may implement or utilize signal preemption or that means the bus gets the signal before the traffic and moves ahead," Beckford said.

SCAT said the biggest hurdle will be selling the idea to the public.

SCAT leaders are hosting public meetings to educate the public about the project, which could cost $130 million.

Much of the funding would come from state and local grants but local residents may have to pay higher taxes too.

[SDK4]

Massive 41 widening project could be broken into smaller pieces
By ZAC ANDERSON

zac.anderson@heraldtribune.com
VENICE -- With a price tag topping $100 million, the widening of the U.S. 41 Bypass is a project that state highway officials have delayed for years.

Now, regional transportation officials say the state will have an easier time supporting the Bypass plan if it is broken into pieces.

Smaller projects of $10 million or $20 million could be more palatable, potentially breaking a funding stalemate that has dragged on for nearly 20 years.

The topic came up Tuesday at Venice City Hall, where officials have spent countless hours pleading their case to widen the Bypass from four to six lanes to alleviate the city's worst traffic bottleneck.

The City Council approved the phasing plan and directed Councilwoman Vicki Taylor to support the project as the city's representative on the Sarasota-Manatee Metropolitan Planning Organization.

The MPO makes regional funding recommendations to state highway officials and ranks projects by importance.

Widening the Bypass has been one of the MPO's top priorities for years, but highway officials never put the project in their five-year funding plan.

Recently, MPO traffic planners suggested breaking off a section of the 2.6 mile Bypass from the Bird Bay Shopping Center to Venice Avenue as a separate $16 million project.

"Historically the city on the MPO have said no, we want the whole thing done, but we've waited 20 years," said City Manager Marty Black.

Taylor said the MPO focused on the cheapest section of roadwork. South of Venice Avenue, the cost of acquiring right of way from dozens of well-established businesses down to Center Avenue becomes much more expensive.

"The idea is to focus on the least expensive section that affects the least number of businesses," Taylor said.

The MPO, which includes representatives from various local governments, must approve the phasing plan before it is forwarded to the Florida Department of Transportation for consideration in next year's state budget.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS/710240330

[SDK4]

Tolls needed to fund I-75 widening
By JOHN DAVIS

john.davis@heraldtribune.com
NORTH PORT -- Drivers may see more toll booths on Interstate 75 in the coming decades.

Area leaders say the region's major transportation artery needs to be expanded, and drivers using it will likely have to help pay the bill.

Local government officials from Palmetto to Punta Gorda met in North Port on Monday to discuss long-term traffic problems, including the expansion of I-75.

The area's two long-range planning boards, called metropolitan planning organizations, or MPOs, have different ideas about what I-75 will look like in the coming decades. But both agree that they are billions of dollars short of paying for its widening and other road projects across the region.

By 2030, the area including Charlotte, Manatee and Sarasota counties will need an estimated $5.1 billion for highway projects, including widening U.S. 41 and I-75.

But projected funding is only $2.1 billion, leaving a $3 billion shortfall for expanding the region's shared road network.

The Sarasota/Manatee and Charlotte-Punta MPOs want to coordinate regional projects to avoid bottlenecks and toll booths randomly placed at county borders.

The Charlotte County-Punta Gorda MPO, for example, is planning eight lanes on I-75 in the next two decades while the Sarasota-Manatee MPO is calling for 10 lanes, including four lanes designated as mass transit, carpool or toll lanes. Eventually, the boards want to settle on a uniform lane number and discuss adding a rail system.

At the same time, federal and state actions, such as mandated property tax cuts and federal cutbacks on legislative earmarking, have played havoc with funding.

Adding to the strain is the growth of areas such as North Port, a city that has more than doubled in population since 2000. North Port has major development projects on the horizon near I-75, including a large residential development and a million-square-foot mall.

"We're the ones that create the demand for the roads," said Sarasota County Commission Jon Thaxton.

In their search for money to solve the road budget crunch, area governments could lean more heavily on tolls and agreements with developers.

Toledo Blade Boulevard in Charlotte County and North Port is slated to be widened to four lanes this year through an agreement with developers.

Benderson Development Co., Centex Homes and Neal Communities are contributing $8 million for the work in lieu of impact fees, with the balance of the $23 million project falling to North Port.

The city and developers struck the deal in 2005, and the agreement calls for the developers to carry North Port's share of the cost until the city pays back the money.

Kitson & Partners, developer of Murdock Villages in Charlotte County, is supposed to contribute work to the widening of U.S. 41.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...NEWS/710300543

[HARTride 2012]

I heard about that on Bay News 9 a few days ago. I guess a tolled I-75 is picking up steam.

[HARTride 2012]

Tourists get free ride, bus riders say 'not fair'
Friday, December 28, 2007


Bus fares in Manatee County are going from $1 to $1.25

MANATEE COUNTY (Bay News 9) -- Some bus riders who use Manatee County Area Transit (MCAT) are upset that their fare is going up but the island trolley remains free.

Bus fares are going from $1 to $1.25.

The bus is Tracy Whelton's main source of transportation.

"I don't like it," Whelton said. "It's ridiculous because the people that live out there have money and the people like me are poor, and it's just not right."

Transportation officials said the rate hike is necessary because of increased operating costs.

"Gas prices are going up so I can understand that," said daily bus rider Jeff Hale.

But others can't understand the reason for the rate hike.

"The trolley staying free and us having to pay, it's really not fair," said daily bus rider Kelly Geyman. "I really have a strong feeling toward that."

County commissioners made the call to keep the island trolley free.

But some out-of-towners said they wouldn't mind paying.

"I don't want to mess with it," said tourist Terri Hodgson. "I just want a ride, I'm on vacation."

"For a dollar, you figure a dollar for one way or whatever, what's a dollar, you know," said tourist Robert Hodgson.

But for some, a dollar goes a long way and bus riders would like to keep as many of them as they can.

"It's like, well, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer," Whelton said.

There are a couple of new options coming to bus riders such as a $3 all-day pass and a $15 seven-day pass.

Manatee County transportation officials said they recommended county commissioners charge a ridership fee for the trolley but commissioners decided against it.

There is a chance a fee could be added to the trolley if it becomes necessary in the next couple of months.

This is the first ridership fee increase for the Manatee County Area Transit in 20 years.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2...+'not+fair'

[HARTride 2012]

Here are some pics I took of SCAT's busses. I especially like the hybrid BRTs.

[iraqiman]

Thanks for the pics

I'll just throw this into it too.


Application OK'd for trolley grant

By Stan Zimmerman
With gasoline prices appearing to be shifting county transit patterns, SCAT Director Tony Beckford this week received approval from the Sarasota County Commission to ask for state money to start a "Siesta Key Island Trolley Service."

Beckford reported an 8-percent increase in bus ridership and says that number is preliminary. It could go higher as gas prices continue to rise.

The increase mirrors what's happening around the country. Loudon County, Va., for example saw a 35-percent increase in the first three months of the year. King County, Wash., is up 6 percent in the same period. Many other counties in between are also showing increases.

As discussed by the county commissioners and Beckford on Tuesday, the Siesta Key trolley would run every 30 minutes from approximately 6 a.m. until midnight, 360 days a year.

It would travel from Southgate Shopping Center to Siesta Village and on to the Gulf Gate Shopping Center. The project would include shelters and benches within six months of its start.

Beckford estimates five diesel-electric hybrid trolleys (at nearly $600,000 apiece) would be required. Half the purchase could be funded with the state grant; the remainder from the recently approved Local Option Sales Tax. Service could begin in June 2009.

The state grant would also pick up half of the $4.7-million operating costs for the three-year pilot program. The total program would cost $8.2 million, with the state and federal governments accounting for $4.2 million.

County funding is unclear at this point, because Beckford is uncertain how much the state would provide in the grant. There is also the possibility some of the county's share could be "in-kind," meaning public land converted to park-and-ride lots.

In June, SCAT will begin running three trolleys on Longboat Key. The vehicles were acquired from Manatee County.

WORKERS EXPRESS

also PROPOSED

In addition to the Siesta Key trolleys, Beckford is also seeking a state grant to provide an express bus service between North Port, Venice and Sarasota. And it would be a high-class ride.

The grant document indicates, "SCAT would purchase five suburban-style hybrid diesel-electric buses for the operations. Each bus would have frontal coach seating and special amenities such as Wi-Fi and possible television monitors."

The routes would use I-75 to make a fast trip to and from downtown Sarasota. Fares would be roughly $2.25 to $3 each way.

Yet another express route may be in the works as well.

Beckford is studying a "Bus Rapid Transit System" that would provide service every 15 minutes between the Sarasota-Bradenton Airport and Bee Ridge Road. That study is expected to be complete this summer.

A third state grant he's seeking would examine the possibility of providing bus service to Lakewood Ranch along the University Parkway corridor. That grant would help fund a feasibility study to determine the "latent demand for bus and commuter services" and how to integrate it with Manatee's bus system as well.

Part of all three grants is identification of "park-and-ride" locations, so people can drive to the bus instead of all the way to their destinations.

The three grant proposals do not bind the county to future expenditures. If the state awards any or all of the grants, county staff would then conduct a financial review and present it to the county commissioners for their consideration.

"So we can modify all this later?" asked Commissioner Nora Patterson.

"Yes," said Beckford. "Or you can refuse the grant at budget time. But we need to apply now."

http://pelicanpress.org/main.asp?Sec...ArticleID=5110

[HARTride 2012]

Has anyone noticed that SCAT has expanded service on some routes to include late-nights and Sundays?

http://www.scgov.net/frame/scgwebpre...B4B4CB80BAABC6

I think it is about time this improvement occured.

[HARTride 2012]

SCAT offers new services and schedule changes starting June 14

Sarasota County May 22, 2008 - Effective June 14, Sarasota County Area Transit (SCAT) will offer new services, including a new Route 40, Sunday service on Routes 6 and 12, and 30-minute trolley service connecting with Manatee County Area Transit (MCAT) on Longboat Key seven days a week. Several other significant service and schedule changes designed to meet the county’s growing transit needs also will take effect in mid-June.

This will be the second major expansion and enhancement of the SCAT bus system this year. On Feb. 25, SCAT implemented its first-ever Sunday service and late-night hours on selected routes. Response to those changes has been positive, and in April 2008 average daily SCAT ridership was up 14 percent over April 2007.

SCAT General Manager Anthony Beckford anticipates continued ridership growth with the new routes and services and escalating fuel prices at the pump. “Riders are increasingly using transit in response to the hardship of higher gas prices,” he said. “The continued expansion of SCAT services softens this hardship and strengthens public transportation services within the region and in Sarasota County.”

Among the new services or schedule changes taking effect June 14 are:

* Sunday service will now be offered on Route 6 (Beneva), operating every 90 minutes from 6:14 a.m.-11:33 p.m. Also, Route 12 (North Lockwood), which previously only had one run on Sunday, will now operate every 90 minutes from 7 a.m. - midnight.

* Route 18 (Longboat Trolley) will operate every 30 minutes Monday-Sunday from 5:30 a.m. to late at night. SCAT is partnering with MCAT to offer the trolley service from downtown Sarasota, to St. Armands Circle and Longboat Key to Coquina Beach on Anna Maria Island.

* Route 12 (North Lockwood) will run every 30 minutes Monday-Saturday before 7 p.m., and every 60 minutes after 7 p.m.

* Route 11 (Siesta Key), Route 17 (Trail) and Route 19 (North Port via U.S. 41) will add evening trips.

* The new Route 40 (Webber Limited) will operate 9 a.m.-6:30 p.m. Monday-Saturday from the SCAT Administration Office at 5303 Pinkney Ave., Sarasota, with limited stops on McIntosh Road between Proctor Avenue and Webber Street, and on Webber between McIntosh and Tuttle Avenue. The Route 40 bus also will stop at Westfield Southgate Mall and at SCAT’s Downtown Transfer Station.

* Route 21 (Englewood Loop) will operate Monday-Friday only, from 9:18 a.m. to 3:57 p.m. Saturday service will be discontinued.

* The Route 5 (Osprey) schedule has been completely revised. The Route 5 bus will leave the Downtown Transfer Station earlier to accommodate connections between Sarasota Memorial Hospital and the Sarasota Pavilion Transfer Station.


For more information on these or other changes taking effect June 14, contact the Sarasota County Call Center at 941-861-5000.

http://www.scgov.net/SCAT/SCATNews.asp

[iraqiman]

That route 40 is interesting. Kinda curious what is their reasoning behind that route. It makes sense, but seems like if they wanted an express route, there are better ones to pick then webber.