FRANCE - Stadium and Arena Development News

[dande]

I don´t know how many of you agree but one arena that seems to be "forgotten" is the versatile facility in Paris. Does anyone have interior pictures of the arena and capacity figures.

[www.sercan.de]

i was so excited when i saw the topic
because of seeing some pics

yeah,
we want to see some pics

[cianobuckley]

For years ligue 1 has been the weakest of the superleagues of western europe but things may be about to change.First of all interest in the national team has lessened so many french football fans are diverting their attention back to domestic matters boosting attendances. Secondly the emergence of Lyon as the dominant force in France was expected to grind to a halt with the appointment of gerard houllier but in truth they have only flourished even more selling out over 85% of their home games this season. As a bonus another french side who have won many admirers and as a result built up a huge amount of support is lille. They are building themselves a new groynd at the moment so if anyone has any information on that post it on this thread.Finally the record new TV deal agreed to start this season has meant double the funds for french clubs, yet still although to a lesser extent then last year they are stuck in the habit of selling players eg Essien ,Evra etc. I hope that this new deal can help raise the profile of the league as less french players will move abroad due to clubs not being run on the tight budgets of previous seasons.This should attract more fans to games and in the future we could for the first time since Marseille see french clubs being contenders for the champions league.They have the potential apart from modern giants Lyon and Lille as well as past masters Marseille and St Etienne there is the glamour clubs of the north and south Paris SG and Bordeaux.
But can this really happen or is french football doomed to mediocrity for eternity?

[JimB]

The only major club in France's second or third city.

After four years of complete domination in France.

When they are storming away with this year's title.

When stadium capacity is only about 40,000.

Yet Lyon are only selling out 85% of home games?

Not very impressive, you have to say.

So what's the size of this new TV deal? How does it compare with England?

I really can't see French football (other than Lyon) consistently challenging Europe's big three leagues any time in the near future.

[cianobuckley]

This is taken from deloitte.com
"The German Bundesliga and French Ligue 1 experienced a decrease in revenue in 2003/04 to €1,058m and €655m respectively, a 5% drop in each case, the result of declining broadcast revenues. Italian Serie A revenues were static for the third successive year with revenues totalling €1,153m.
The French will reverse this trend soon. The Ligue 1 clubs’ revenues will be boosted significantly from 2005/06 when a €600m a season domestic television rights deal with Pay-TV broadcaster Canal Plus commences. The c.50% increase on current deals, will put it on a par with the English Premiership as the most lucrative domestic football league broadcast contract in the world"


So in theory all french clubs will need to do is work on improving their average gates and they will perhaps with a little more success and worldwide marketing be on a par with english clubs financially

[JimB]

Originally Posted by cianobuckley

This is taken from deloitte.com
"The German Bundesliga and French Ligue 1 experienced a decrease in revenue in 2003/04 to €1,058m and €655m respectively, a 5% drop in each case, the result of declining broadcast revenues. Italian Serie A revenues were static for the third successive year with revenues totalling €1,153m.
The French will reverse this trend soon. The Ligue 1 clubs’ revenues will be boosted significantly from 2005/06 when a €600m a season domestic television rights deal with Pay-TV broadcaster Canal Plus commences. The c.50% increase on current deals, will put it on a par with the English Premiership as the most lucrative domestic football league broadcast contract in the world"


So in theory all french clubs will need to do is work on improving their average gates and they will perhaps with a little more success and worldwide marketing be on a par with english clubs financially

They'll need much more than just this improved TV deal and higher attendances, IMO. English clubs can and do charge far higher ticket prices, have (or will soon have) bigger stadiums and have far more developed commercial and merchandising operations than French clubs. Football will never be remotely as popular in France as it is in England so I can't see how French clubs, in general, will bridge the gap.

Germany, on the other hand, could be the big movers over the next ten years. Football is very popular there. They have big, modern stadia. All they would need to make serious advances would be to charge higher ticket prices (they're currently very cheap) and to negotiate a better TV deal. If the Championnat can win such a lucrative TV deal, then surely the Bundesliga can too?

[antigr12]

Originally Posted by JimB

The only major club in France's second or third city.

After four years of complete domination in France.

When they are storming away with this year's title.

When stadium capacity is only about 40,000.

Yet Lyon are only selling out 85% of home games?

Not very impressive, you have to say.

So what's the size of this new TV deal? How does it compare with England?

I really can't see French football (other than Lyon) consistently challenging Europe's big three leagues any time in the near future.

false , the average attendance is 39000 this season and the number of seats is also limited below the 100% , the club could fill 60000 or 65000 seats every week that's why aulas wants ( and will under 5 years ) to build a new stadium .

[bubomb]

Originally Posted by antigr12

false , the average attendance is 39000 this season and the number of seats is also limited below the 100% , the club could fill 60000 or 65000 seats every week that's why aulas wants ( and will under 5 years ) to build a new stadium .

I've also noticed French teams doing better in Europe in recent years. I'm not sure if Lyon could get 60000 a week though, as their average is 2000 below their biggest crowd of the season. Lens have got great crowds when you consider how tiny Lens is.

http://www.european-football-statist...ent/avefra.htm

[antigr12]

wrong , they have between 25 and 30000 waiting crowd so the stadium will be full of 60000 people .

[Bender]

Can someone remind me the consolidated loss of English clubs?

[DooMSireN]

The stronger European leagues are the better as far as I am concerned, good news for France. The better the European leagues are the better the Champions League is (hopefully) so more entertainment, even if that doesn't include English clubs.

[JimB]

Originally Posted by Bender

Can someone remind me the consolidated loss of English clubs?

Other than Chelsea, very few Premiership clubs report big losses these days. They learnt the lessons of Leeds. And Chelsea, as the whole world knows, are a law unto themselves. They can absorb a £140 million loss as easily as a sheet of kitchen towell can absorb a droplet of water.

[Kampflamm]

Originally Posted by Bender

Can someone remind me the consolidated loss of English clubs?

Bender, nous need vous dans le Forum Allemand!

French venues all look pretty old. Did they build or renovate any stadiums for the 98 wc? I gotta admit the Stade de France is IMO the most beautiful stadium in the world but the rest isn't all that great.

[JimB]

Originally Posted by antigr12

wrong , they have between 25 and 30000 waiting crowd so the stadium will be full of 60000 people .

Well, to be honest, given the circumstances (Lyon's dominance of French football, their great performances in the Champions' League and the fact that Lyon is a huge city with only one major football club), then Lyon really ought to be able to attract crowds of 60,000 every week.

But the fact remains that Lyon's highest attendance this season (a sell out, I presume) was just over 40,000. Yet their average attendance this season is only just over 38,000 (meaning that some games must have attracted less than 38,000). Last season, average attendances were 37,500. The season before that, they were 36,000. In 2001-02, they were 34,000.

So if Lyon can't sell out a 40,000 stadium every week when they have their best ever team winning title after title, then there's nothing to suggest that they could sell out a 60,000 stadium every week. Especially if the team starts performing poorly.

[Quintana]

Originally Posted by JimB

Well, to be honest, given the circumstances (Lyon's dominance of French football, their great performances in the Champions' League and the fact that Lyon is a huge city with only one major football club), then Lyon really ought to be able to attract crowds of 60,000 every week.

But the fact remains that Lyon's highest attendance this season (a sell out, I presume) was just over 40,000. Yet their average attendance this season is only just over 38,000 (meaning that some games must have attracted less than 38,000). Last season, average attendances were 37,500. The season before that, they were 36,000. In 2001-02, they were 34,000.

So if Lyon can't sell out a 40,000 stadium every week when they have their best ever team winning title after title, then there's nothing to suggest that they could sell out a 60,000 stadium every week. Especially if the team starts performing poorly.

I believe France doesn't have a "travel culture". Many visiting clubs don't bring a lot of fans. The visitors sectors in French stadiums often seem way to big for the visiting team. Surely, this doesn't explain the 34.000 Lyon had a few seasons back, but it could mean they sell out their stadium (apart from the visitors sector) quite regurarly these days.

[bubomb]

Originally Posted by Quintana

I believe France doesn't have a "travel culture". Many visiting clubs don't bring a lot of fans. The visitors sectors in French stadiums often seem way to big for the visiting team. Surely, this doesn't explain the 34.000 Lyon had a few seasons back, but it could mean they sell out their stadium (apart from the visitors sector) quite regurarly these days.

Wouldn't they just make the visitors section far smaller? If the away team can only sell 400 tickets, then you would only have to make the away section about 1000 seats. I know this depends on the stadium design, but I see no reason why it couln't be done in Lyon, as they don't give the away team a whole stand. They split it up, so why not simply change the split so the away team gets less seats?

[2zanzibar]

The Premiership ticket pricing is absurd! way overpriced, bloated and unsustainable. £35 minimum to see an Arsenal game; and even in the lower leagues, I went to watch Barnet play this season (league2 - thats the old division4) and it cost £17 to sit in a tin shed! thats what 25 euros?....Jesus!

I don't really care much for how successfull a league is financially...no change that, yes I do! I hope that the top 20 clubs in that stupid deloitte list get forced to start distributing their wealth around a bit more to fund grass roots so we don't get to the state that Serie A has found itself in. Theres also something wrong when the weekly wage of a football player is more than the entire yearly earnings of a whole terrace.

I like like the French and Dutch leagues because they aren't swimming in odious amounts of wealth and yet still produce strong teams, PSV, Lyon and Monaco

[MoreOrLess]

Originally Posted by 2zanzibar

The Premiership ticket pricing is absurd! way overpriced, bloated and unsustainable. £35 minimum to see an Arsenal game; and even in the lower leagues, I went to watch Barnet play this season (league2 - thats the old division4) and it cost £17 to sit in a tin shed! thats what 25 euros?....Jesus!

I don't really care much for how successfull a league is financially...no change that, yes I do! I hope that the top 20 clubs in that stupid deloitte list get forced to start distributing their wealth around a bit more to fund grass roots so we don't get to the state that Serie A has found itself in. Theres also something wrong when the weekly wage of a football player is more than the entire yearly earnings of a whole terrace.

I like like the French and Dutch leagues because they aren't swimming in odious amounts of wealth and yet still produce strong teams, PSV, Lyon and Monaco

While any English fan would most likely welcome a drop in ticket prices they do actually help the wealth get distributed downwards (along with the collective TV deal) since everyone can make money from them unlike massive endorsements. I don't think its a coincidense for example that while the clubs at the top of the rich list make pretty similar amounts in England, Spain and Italy there are 8 prem clubs in the top 20 compaired to 5 italian and 3 spainish. So really in terms of who wins the top league I'd guess the prem is actually fairer than most of the decent sized leagues around europe, the gap is between it and div 1.

[kingdomca]

The english premiership is in fact quite fair. They have many entrants in the top 20 because tv-revenue is shared and because all clubs have good/decent facilities to secure a good match day income.

The german league is the same. Its way cheaper there still but crowds are increasing rapidly at their new venues and so is their tv income.

I hope France is moving in the same direction as England and Germany.
They will never quite get there because you cant suddenly create millions of new fans willing to spend as heavily as in England but smaller leagues dont have to be absolutely on par financially. as long as the gap isnt too big they can compete and its excellent if it happens.
The same goes for Holland and hopefully many other leagues.

Italy is simply falling apart.
The league is being destroyed by inequality, selfishness, debt, terrible facilities, and not least hooliganism. Crowds continue to drop rapidly, and who would want to visit these places with tall fencing, or even plexi-glass walls and complete cages for away fans.
I hope they start to fix their league, as it simply cant continue. I would fear though that a few at the top may instead just try to leave behind the mess and seek a new international competition

[MoreOrLess]

Originally Posted by kingdomca

The english premiership is in fact quite fair. They have many entrants in the top 20 because tv-revenue is shared and because all clubs have good/decent facilities to secure a good match day income.

The german league is the same. Its way cheaper there still but crowds are increasing rapidly at their new venues and so is their tv income.

I hope France is moving in the same direction as England and Germany.
They will never quite get there because you cant suddenly create millions of new fans willing to spend as heavily as in England but smaller leagues dont have to be absolutely on par financially. as long as the gap isnt too big they can compete and its excellent if it happens.
The same goes for Holland and hopefully many other leagues.

Italy is simply falling apart.
The league is being destroyed by inequality, selfishness, debt, terrible facilities, and not least hooliganism. Crowds continue to drop rapidly, and who would want to visit these places with tall fencing, or even plexi-glass walls and complete cages for away fans.
I hope they start to fix their league, as it simply cant continue. I would fear though that a few at the top may instead just try to leave behind the mess and seek a new international competition

Indeed, while its commonly stated that attendances are down merely because pretty much all games are on TV the above factors are most likely why fans are choosing to watch games at home. I think that italian football would actually have been better off if FIFA threw the book at Inter in the champs league last season(kicked them out of it for at least 1 season) thus giving them some reason to take serious action without needing a disaster to happen.