DfT start Pendolino lengthening process

[Vince Noir]

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/pendolinolengthening/

All aimed towards the replacement franchise on West Coast in 2012. All the additional capacity would come under the new franchise. Only the replacement set for the one lost at Grayrigg would fall under Virgin.

Highlights include:

Under Virgin (i.e before franchise ends in 2012)

• New 9-car replacement of Grayrigg set by Q3 2010
• Platform extensions and depot modifications to allow 11-car running

New Franchise (Q2 2012)

• Introduce 3 additional 11-car Pendolinos
• Lengthen some or all exisiting 9-car Pendolinos to 11-car by end of 2012
• Option to order up to 23 additional 8, 9 or 11-car Pendolinos to increase fleet size/replace West Coast Voyagers on Birmingham - Scotland services.

[Chafford1]

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/pendolinolengthening/

All aimed towards the replacement franchise on West Coast in 2012. All the additional capacity would come under the new franchise. Only the replacement set for the one lost at Grayrigg would fall under Virgin.

Highlights include:

Under Virgin (i.e before franchise ends in 2012)

• New 9-car replacement of Grayrigg set by Q3 2010
• Platform extensions and depot modifications to allow 11-car running

New Franchise (Q2 2012)

• Introduce 3 additional 11-car Pendolinos
• Lengthen some or all exisiting 9-car Pendolinos to 11-car by end of 2012
• Option to order up to 23 additional 8, 9 or 11-car Pendolinos to increase fleet size/replace West Coast Voyagers on Birmingham - Scotland services.

And still an option for Virgin to introduce the 11 coach Pendolinos before 2012

'The Department’s preferred strategy for the introduction of the additional capacity on the West Coast Mainline is consistent with the following project objectives:

• to provide additional capacity through the purchase of new Class 390 Pendolino trains and the lengthening of part or all the fleet to 11-cars.
• to deliver into operation the new rolling stock as early as possible in the life of the next WCML franchise (after March 2012).
• to deliver essential depot works in readiness for 11-car operations by 2010.
• to deliver essential station infrastructure works (i.e. platform lengthening, signal modification and SDO capability) in readiness for 11-car operations by 2010.
• to deliver the 1st new 9-car Class 390 set into operation in 2010, thereby permitting the integration of the 10th/11th intermediate vehicles and attain all safety approvals and certification in 2012.
• to make available to the WCML re-franchising process full disclosure concerning the integration risks and deliverability of the 11-car lengthening programme.
• to deliver the 2nd, 3rd and 4th fully integrated 11-car Class 390 sets into operation by 31 March 2012 in readiness for immediate use upon franchise change.
• to permit the earlier introduction into service of the newly integrated 11-car sets by Virgin Trains, subject to agreement with Virgin Trains.
• to undertake the integration of the 10th/11th intermediate vehicles within the existing 9-car Class 390 fleet early in the successor franchise, preferably during the H3 Examinations'.

[Vince Noir]

Originally Posted by Chafford1

And still an option for Virgin to introduce the 11 coach Pendolinos before 2012

'The Department’s preferred strategy for the introduction of the additional capacity on the West Coast Mainline is consistent with the following project objectives:

• to provide additional capacity through the purchase of new Class 390 Pendolino trains and the lengthening of part or all the fleet to 11-cars.
• to deliver into operation the new rolling stock as early as possible in the life of the next WCML franchise (after March 2012).
• to deliver essential depot works in readiness for 11-car operations by 2010.
• to deliver essential station infrastructure works (i.e. platform lengthening, signal modification and SDO capability) in readiness for 11-car operations by 2010.
• to deliver the 1st new 9-car Class 390 set into operation in 2010, thereby permitting the integration of the 10th/11th intermediate vehicles and attain all safety approvals and certification in 2012.
• to make available to the WCML re-franchising process full disclosure concerning the integration risks and deliverability of the 11-car lengthening programme.
• to deliver the 2nd, 3rd and 4th fully integrated 11-car Class 390 sets into operation by 31 March 2012 in readiness for immediate use upon franchise change.
• to permit the earlier introduction into service of the newly integrated 11-car sets by Virgin Trains, subject to agreement with Virgin Trains.
• to undertake the integration of the 10th/11th intermediate vehicles within the existing 9-car Class 390 fleet early in the successor franchise, preferably during the H3 Examinations'.

It's highly unlikely though, the option is pretty much cosmetic. DfT wouldn't be involving a shadow operator to commision the new Pendolinos while Virgin still hold and operate the franchise unless they were fairly certain an agreement can't be reached with Virgin.

Just shows how much control DfT have over our privatised railways. There wasn't this much Government control and specification under nationalised BR!

[andysimo123]

I was just thinking. Who brought these trains was it Virgin or was it some part of the government?

[U Thant]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

I was just thinking. Who brought these trains was it Virgin or was it some part of the government?

Like almost all trains in the UK, they're owned by a leasing company (in this case Angel Trains) and rented to Virgin. The DfT is guarantor on every lease, which gives them enormous power to decide which trains any company is able to rent, move trains between companies on a whim and to pull stunts like this.

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by U Thant

Like almost all trains in the UK, they're owned by a leasing company (in this case Angel Trains) and rented to Virgin. The DfT is guarantor on every lease, which gives them enormous power to decide which trains any company is able to rent, move trains between companies on a whim and to pull stunts like this.

Everywhere I have looked it says Virgin placed the order not Angel Trains or DfT!

[Vince Noir]

Originally Posted by andysimo123

Everywhere I have looked it says Virgin placed the order not Angel Trains or DfT!

Virgin placed the order in 1999 with Alstom via Angel Trains, who own the vehicles and lease them to Virgin for the duration of the franchise.

The only franchised TOC to own their own trains are First Great Western, who purchased a few surplus HSTs when they were off-lease and the ROSCOs were willing to deal (due to the perceived short asset life). This is the exception not the rule.

Whoever wins the next West Coast franchise (and I can't see it being Virgin, they may well walk away from rail after 2012) will take on the leases for the Pendolino fleet as DfT will specify this as part of the franchise agreement.

[Brilliant]

Good news.

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

Virgin placed the order in 1999 with Alstom via Angel Trains, who own the vehicles and lease them to Virgin for the duration of the franchise.

The only franchised TOC to own their own trains are First Great Western, who purchased a few surplus HSTs when they were off-lease and the ROSCOs were willing to deal (due to the perceived short asset life). This is the exception not the rule.

Whoever wins the next West Coast franchise (and I can't see it being Virgin, they may well walk away from rail after 2012) will take on the leases for the Pendolino fleet as DfT will specify this as part of the franchise agreement.

Will it not be Virgin due to the competition rules? or are there other reasons. There the ones who have partly got this better service running so just kick them off and give it someone else would be a kick in the teeth.

[U Thant]

Bids for franchises are anonymized before they're evaluated by the DfT, so in theory at least Virgin can't be cut out. But equally, being the current franchisee is meaningless during the next round of bidding.

(And don't forget Virgin Trains is 49% owned by Stagecoach, who had no problem winning EMT last year)

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

The only franchised TOC to own their own trains are First Great Western, who purchased a few surplus HSTs when they were off-lease and the ROSCOs were willing to deal (due to the perceived short asset life). This is the exception not the rule.

Not even then - they're owned by a special sister company within First Group that's essentially a tiny Angel Trains equivalnt. Grand Central have a similar setup.

Some heritage trains (eg those in daily service at Aylesbury, Lymington and Cardiff and the tube trains on the Isle of Wight) are owned by their respective TOCs, but I can't remember which exactly.

[elfabyanos]

They did place the order. Well, AN order, for the 10th and 11th cars. Alstom waited. Virgin thought that Angel trains would be all for it, new asset and guaranteed leasing of that asset. However the DfT or someone decided to issue a competition enquiry into the ROSCO's charges, Angel train's bank backers said, "Erm, no, we're not buying any more stuff if they're threatening to sue us over how much we lease it for" Angel said, "Ok not yet", Virgin said "!" and Alstom said "Sorry, you missed your chance we've got to use the production line for something else".

So, now the DfT brings out this set of fun and games, increasing the scope of the new trains requirement, yes, with an eye the next WCML franchise, which is great but a good few years later than Virgin wanted. Alstom had the production lines ready to produce the vehicles Virgin wanted this year or so the rumours rumble.

I have no idea whether to rejoice or cry.

[gothicform]

how hard is it to lengthen trains? you simply go "oh we need more coaches to carry more passengers. how much will it cost? how much will it make? ok lets do it"

[MongMental]

Originally Posted by gothicform

how hard is it to lengthen trains? you simply go "oh we need more coaches to carry more passengers. how much will it cost? how much will it make? ok lets do it"

BR managed to lengthen east coast HST sets without much trouble back in the days before electrification. As for lengthening platforms this is not necessary immediately as procedures are already in place at some stations where the trains are longer than the platform and the conductor will tell passengers if your going to (station name) use the front/back part of the train only.

[U Thant]

Pendelinos are complex integrated multiple units that can't be lengthened as easily as HSTs, though it's still ridiculous to be inviting an outside party to come in and do it.

[Fluff]

Wouldn't a quicker solution be to freeing up some of the mainly empty 1st Class carriages! Every time I get on at Euston I seem to walk half the length of the empty (ie 1st Class carriages) train just to get to the standard seats

[andysimo123]

Originally Posted by U Thant

Pendelinos are complex integrated multiple units that can't be lengthened as easily as HSTs, though it's still ridiculous to be inviting an outside party to come in and do it.

True but I bet if you had the book for modifying them that explained it all, it wouldn't be that bad.

[gothicform]

yup. likewise on the ecml. i have never been in a first class carriage with more than six people including myself in it. they could easily dump one first class carriage for a second class and few if any first class passengers would notice because the loading is so meagre in them.

[Caiman]

What about at peak times? I got on a train around 5:30PM on a friday night from Euston to Manchester two weeks ago and first class was full to the brim. Fortunately I paid a tenner upgrade when I booked my seats in advanced a month or so earlier

[gothicform]

lucky you. ecml first class is never full at peak times!

[Irish Blood English Heart]

Originally Posted by gothicform

lucky you. ecml first class is never full at peak times!

It has been for me going from Newcastle to Edinburgh on a Friday and from London to Newcastle. Perhaps its just the stopping services that don't have as many first class customers but the ones to Scotland certainly can do.