Crosstown LRT (Eglinton) | Proposed | 31 km | $2.2 Billion | All Six Boroughs

[Jaye101]

The Crosstown LRT

The proposed Crosstown LRT line is the only TransitCity route that will cross into every single borough of Toronto. It will replace the 32 Eglinton West & the 34 Eglinton East, providing transit users with an effective way of getting across town without heading through Downtown. The route would begin at Pearson International Airport with a connection to the proposed Mississauga Transitway at Renforth Drive. It will cross over into the city of Toronto as it heads east of the 427, merging with Eglinton Avenue West. As the line continues east it will cross over the proposed Jane LRT where an effective transfer will be constructed. When the line passes East of Keele Street it will head underground where it will connect to the Eglinton West and Eglinton subway stations. According to Adam Giambrone, the tunnels used on this portion of the line will be easily upgradable to heavy rail. The line will return to the surface at Laird Road where it will soon cross over the proposed Don Mills LRT. Soon after, it will head under street level to connect with Kennedy Station, offering effective transfers to the Bloor-Danforth subway line, the Scarborough RT, and the propsed Malvern LRT.

[DENTROBATE54]

The Crosstown LRT

Who came up with that map ? It makes several unreasonably large gaps in service, most notably: between Kipling and Renforth; Keele and Eglinton West (seriously no stops @Caledonia and Oakwood?) and between Don Mills and Victoria Park.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by DENTROBATE54

Who came up with that map ? It makes several unreasonably large gaps in service, most notably: between Kipling and Renforth; Keele and Eglinton West (seriously no stops @Caledonia and Oakwood?) and between Don Mills and Victoria Park.

Well, the portion that passes Oakwood and Caledonia is underground.

[Filip]

This should be a subway and nothing else... The lack of foresight in this is truly astounding.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by Filip

This should be a subway and nothing else... The lack of foresight in this is truly astounding.

Weston/Keele - Laird has the foresight; it'll be to subway spec.

The central portion will be pretty popular and its subway spec will be a worthwhile investment, however the Etobicoke and west Scarborough portions of the line are not good subway candidates - LRT can change that hopefully though.

That map is pretty bad

After they finally have their first public open house we can get a better idea on where this is going.

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by TRZ

Weston/Keele - Laird has the foresight; it'll be to subway spec.

The central portion will be pretty popular and its subway spec will be a worthwhile investment, however the Etobicoke and west Scarborough portions of the line are not good subway candidates - LRT can change that hopefully though.

That map is pretty bad

After they finally have their first public open house we can get a better idea on where this is going.

The Eglinton corridor through Scarborough is one of of the densest corridors in the borough. I'm working on a proposal for that section of the LRT that could transform it into something extraordinary. For such a suburban fabric to support such a plethora of small bussiness' is unprecedented within the GTA.

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by Jaye101

The Eglinton corridor through Scarborough is one of of the densest corridors in the borough. I'm working on a proposal for that section of the LRT that could transform it into something extraordinary. For such a suburban fabric to support such a plethora of small bussiness' is unprecedented within the GTA.

East of Birchmount I agree with you; the stretch between Birchmount and Pharmacy is problematic for a subway proposal though. That's why I specifically said west Scarborough.

I'm interested in what you're proposing though.

I do think the Kennedy area should be underground, however if rumours about the water table in that area that have been raised here previously are true, the engineers are gonna be having a field day (it's a real pain in the ass if it's true).

[Jaye101]

Originally Posted by TRZ

East of Birchmount I agree with you; the stretch between Birchmount and Pharmacy is problematic for a subway proposal though. That's why I specifically said west Scarborough.

I'm interested in what you're proposing though.

I do think the Kennedy area should be underground, however if rumours about the water table in that area that have been raised here previously are true, the engineers are gonna be having a field day (it's a real pain in the ass if it's true).

Water table? How interesting!

The stretch of Eglinton between the Don Valley and Kennedy is atrocious, but when you head further east from Kennedy to Kingston Road the fabric of the avenue becomes very interesting. Check your PMs.

[DENTROBATE54]

Originally Posted by DanfromTO

caledonia, oakwood, and chaplin should def. have stops even if its underground.
if mount pleasant can get a stop, these streets should too.
there is substantial distance between keele and dufferin, dufferin and the allen, and bathurst and avenue

These are spacing gaps I can support. I know the precedent for modern subway-building is kilometre apart spacing but when major intersection are posed to be overlooked, promixity must try to be met. Ultimately BD-style spacing fits the mould for Eglinton to a tee.

Namely (subway interchange stations in BOLD):

Martin Grove, Kipling, Islington, Royal York, Scarlett, Jane, Weston, Black Creek (optional), Trethewey, Caledonia, Dufferin, Oakwood, ALLEN (far right), Bathurst, Chaplin, Avenue, YONGE, Mount Pleasant, Bayview, Laird, Brentcliffe, Overlea@Thorncliffe Park, Overlea@Gateway, Don Mills@Eglinton, St Dennis Dr, Bermondsey, Victoria Park (far right), Warden (far left), Birchmount, Kennedy (far left), MIDLAND, Danforth, Bellamy, Markham, SGC, Celeste, Galloway, Morningside.

Originally Posted by Jaye101

The Eglinton corridor through Scarborough is one of of the densest corridors in the borough. I'm working on a proposal for that section of the LRT that could transform it into something extraordinary. For such a suburban fabric to support such a plethora of small bussiness' is unprecedented within the GTA.

So very true, which is why I'd recommend a full metro along the commercial zone from Victoria Park all the way out to West Hill. Hopefully your LRT proposal can be just as adequate a plan for this region .

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by DENTROBATE54

Martin Grove, Kipling, Islington, Royal York, Scarlett, Jane, Weston, Black Creek (optional), Trethewey, Caledonia, Dufferin, Oakwood, ALLEN (far right), Bathurst, Chaplin, Avenue, YONGE, Mount Pleasant, Bayview, Laird, Brentcliffe, Overlea@Thorncliffe Park, Overlea@Gateway, Don Mills@Eglinton, St Dennis Dr, Bermondsey, Victoria Park (far right), Warden (far left), Birchmount, Kennedy (far left), MIDLAND, Danforth, Bellamy, Markham, SGC, Celeste, Galloway, Morningside.

My Eglinton LRT

Legend:
Local
Express

Pearson - Airport Connection
North Eringate (Renforth) - Mississauga Transitway Connection
Willowridge (Martin Grove)
Richview Park (Lloyd Manor)
Princess Gardens (Kipling)
Princess Anne Manor (Wincott)
Richmond Gardens (Islington)
Edenbrige (Eden Valley)
Humber Heights (Royal York)
Roselands (Scarlett)
Mount Dennis (Weston) - Georgetown GO Connection, Local/Express interchange (includes provision for Subway/LRT interchange), Jane LRT Connection
-Portal 3 blocks west of The Tretheway-
Keelesdale/York Civic Center (Tretheway)
Silverthorn (Gilbert) *rush hour express service* - Barrie GO Connection
Vaughan (Dufferin)
Cedarvale (Allen) - Spadina Subway Connection
Old Forest Hill (Bathurst)
Allenby (Avenue Road)
Yonge-Eglinton - Yonge Subway Connection
South Eglinton (Mount Pleasant)
Broadway (Bayview)
Leaside (Laird)
-Portal 3 blocks east of Laird-
Ontario Science Centre (Don Mills) - Midtown/Richmond Hill GO Connection?, Local/Express interchange (includes provision for Subway/LRT interchange), Don Mills LRT Connection
Wynford - Richmond Hill GO Connection?
Sloane
Eglinton Square (Victoria Park)
Lebovic
Warden
Birchmount
-Portal east of Birchmount-
-Swing through Eglinton Ravine for subway-compatible wye with B-D-
Kennedy - Danforth Subway Connection, Stouffville GO Connection, SRT Connection
-Portal one block west of Midland-
Midland
Brimely(WB)/Danforth(EB)
McCowan
Bellamy - Lakeshore GO Connection
Mason
Markham
Kingston - 503 Connection, Morningside LRT Connection

[Professor X]

Originally Posted by Filip

This should be a subway and nothing else... The lack of foresight in this is truly astounding.

With a few exceptions, subways are no longer being built anymore. The reasons are mostly cost, and the disruptions to street life caused by 'cut & cover' building and all of the other vicissitudes of building a subway. Plus, as one councilor (Gord Perks) put it, subways are 'troglodyte transportation' that cuts people off from the city they live in by forcing them underground while cars are allowed to predominate above. LRT's are less expensive and most cost-efficient to build.

With all due respect, the only lack of foresight is in the idea that only subways work.

[Filip]

Btw.. Park Lawn doesn't go to Eglinton, it ends blocks and blocks south of BLOOR.

[Jaye101]

Eh, blame wikipedia. LOL

[Filip]

It should be built as a subway from the getgo.. There's no reason to make this so complicated... By that logic, Sheppard should be mothballed, it probably will forever have less ridership than Eglinton West in Etobicoke.

[kettal]

Originally Posted by Filip

It should be built as a subway from the getgo.. There's no reason to make this so complicated... By that logic, Sheppard should be mothballed, it probably will forever have less ridership than Eglinton West in Etobicoke.

"That logic" is correct, on both counts.

[vancouverite/to'er]

Originally Posted by Filip

It should be built as a subway from the getgo.. There's no reason to make this so complicated... By that logic, Sheppard should be mothballed, it probably will forever have less ridership than Eglinton West in Etobicoke.

Of course

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by Filip

It should be built as a subway from the getgo.. There's no reason to make this so complicated... By that logic, Sheppard should be mothballed, it probably will forever have less ridership than Eglinton West in Etobicoke.

Sheppard should never have been built as a subway; we should hold it as a reminder to not subscribe to the "subways everwhere" mentality.

With Sheppard already constructed, we need to be cautious on what we do with it from here. The Sheppard LRT, depending on how it is done, may help raise its fortunes. My preference remains though; turn it south down VP and then swing around Eglinton to the OSC area and to downtown to make it the equivalent of the Spadina Line in the east end.

[DanfromTO]

caledonia, oakwood, and chaplin should def. have stops even if its underground.
if mount pleasant can get a stop, these streets should too.
there is substantial distance between keele and dufferin, dufferin and the allen, and bathurst and avenue

[kettal]

TRZ, in regards to express service, how do you propose it will work? 3 or 4 tracks? Would 3 tracks work, or would scheduling eastbound and westbound expresses not to crash be too much of a pain?

[TRZ]

Originally Posted by kettal

TRZ, in regards to express service, how do you propose it will work? 3 or 4 tracks? Would 3 tracks work, or would scheduling eastbound and westbound expresses not to crash be too much of a pain?

4 tracks at stations only is what I am thinking.
I've been thinking about what model is best and am as-of-yet not quite sure which model strikes the best balance, but leaning towards b).
I've thought about the following:
a)4-track corridor - extremely expensive, but guaranteed most effective
b)4-track at stations only, either with flanking platforms on each of the outer tracks (2 tracks in middle used for passing local trains), or double islands (serviced by both express and local, one island per direction). Currently, all stations having one of the two 4-track models is my preference, but space is a concern in the Scarborough portion east of Kennedy (some will say this is part of the Morningside LRT, but I still consider it part of Eglinton since the street is still Eglinton... the Morningside LRT should terminate at Kingston Rd and Eglinton).
EDIT:Should the underground central portion get converted to HRT, which I am sure will eventually happen, b) is not appropriate for Toronto's style of subway ops...
c)3-track at stations only, except stations serviced by both express and local which would be as above in b). Although I've seen it used in Tokyo and doesn't seem to be a problem, I don't like it for the risk of head-on collisions it can facilitate.

I know what doesn't work, and that is the model that is employed on most lines in Tokyo where they have 4-tracks or 3-tracks at SOME stations only. This causes domino effect delays ALL the time during peak. Very ineffective, far too little tolerance for error, not acceptable. However, if every station is 4-tracks, then it should be very manageable. Odakyuu Elec. Railway in Tokyo is quad-tracking the trunk portion of their corridor that is shared by 3 lines (or 4 depending how you count through-service), however for the length of trains they run and the frequency of both express and local services and the nature of their interlining, it is necessary for them. For Eglinton's kind of operations, I don't think that should be necessary - a coupled pair of LRVs can accelerate fairly quickly and headways on an LRT can be tighter than on a conventional railway anyway.

Legend:
P=platform, +=track, >/<=direction X=express, L=local

Local station
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
++<++L++<++L++<++L++<++
++<++X++<++X++<++X++<++
++>++X++>++X++>++X++>++
++>++L++>++L++>++L++>++
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Express station
++L++<++L++<++L++<++L+
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
++X++<++X++<++X++<++X+
++X++>++X++>++X++>++X+
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
++L++>++L++>++L++>++L+

Between stations
++<++X/L++<++X/L++<++X/L++
++>++X/L++>++X/L++>++X/L++