SOUTH KOREA | High Speed Rail

[ruready1000]

KTX-II, made by Hyundai-Rotem and based on HSR-350x, will make its debut next year in HONAM-line.

Specifications

Maximum design speed / Trainset : 330km/h / 10cars/trainset

Dimensions (L x W x H) : 20,100×2,970×3,750 (mm)

Gauge : Standard gauge ( 1,435mm )

Carbody / Compressive load :
Stainless steel (locomotive) & extruded aluminum (passenger cars) / 200 tons

Doors : External sliding plug-in doors

Air Conditioner :
34,400 (cooling) & 30,960 (heating) kW/h/set,
1 set/vehicle

Brake / Coupler :
Electro-pneumatic brake system / Automatic coupler

Bogie : Axle box wing type & link arm type,
Bolsterless bogie

Main electrical equipment :
Induction motor / PWM converter/inverter

Signal, TCMS :
ATC/ATP/ATS, International standard wireless LAN

Applied standard :
UIC, Urban Railway Regulations,
Railroad Safety Ordinance

Features :
The vehicles are designed to meet European standards and include a RAMS application.

KTX-II Rollout Ceremony



















all photos from here (you can see more photos)

[asahi]

The changed design looks so much better. I like it. Nice train

[elfabyanos]

Very nice.

[2co2co]

Looks too TGV to me :-S

[ARailSystemsEngineer]

Originally Posted by 2co2co

Looks too TGV to me :-S

? I think its got a fairly distinct style; its bound to look a bit like its parents. And how could anything look "too TGV" - that implies something unsatisfactory about the appearance of the TGV, and suggests prejudice on your part, rather than any failing of the styling of the train

I think that they have done a good job in maintaining continuity of style with the existing KTX TGVs

Rse

[Micrav]

The maybe sad thing in this beautiful train is the way they used the DNA of TGV. It reminds me the old story of Japanese and Koreans, now Chinese copying european or American products (cars, motorbikes, mobile phones, etc. ) Don't they have any pride in creating something original coming from their guts? Not trying to create something original. I know it is a business strategy to copy, even correcting defaults or making better quality and cheaper. Now Honda makes their own original design, but Toyota still copies its rival (see new Avensis inspired by Mazda 6). Asian companies should throw their cameras, stop reading magazines away and start from white paper their new designs. There are excellent asian designers who can do much better than copying style or ideas. When I was at Berlin, I saw again a bunch of asian photographers taking pictures of every single detail of some trains (caught one taking pictures of door opening buttons in train toilets). What do you call this? Market study? Let me laugh. You visit such exhibition to get inspired and motivated, not to copy...

There is no global design or design for the world.
Design is made locally and adopted by the world or not.

If Asia would understand this, they would be much more creative and China would stop dumping crap toys and products in our markets. We love Asia, but not necessary Asian copies that gives us back a faded image of our products in the mirror

Look again front of TGV of Rotem, headlight scheme is inspired by Velaros...
They only thing I would understand is that Alstom gave a licence to Rotem and that Koreans adapted the design...

Or I wander if it is not a first generation TGV refurbishment... I know that SNCF sold some to LaPoste for example. Could be one explanation and smart move then...

The last reason I would understand is that Alstom did not deposited the licence in Korea or Korea did not accept licence of TGV or does not protect well esign and licences (like in China), then Rotem can produce a copy if they want but cannot sell to a country who respects Alstom licences.

Everything is open. I am not sour, I have two friends of Korean origin and discovered a bit of Korea throough them, I just wish Asian companies would make their own true original designs.

[ruready1000]

Originally Posted by Micrav

The maybe sad thing in this beautiful train is the way they used the DNA of TGV. It reminds me the old story of Japanese and Koreans, now Chinese copying european or American products (cars, motorbikes, mobile phones, etc. ) Don't they have any pride in creating something original coming from their guts? Not trying to create something original. I know it is a business strategy to copy, even correcting defaults or making better quality and cheaper. Now Honda makes their own original design, but Toyota still copies its rival (see new Avensis inspired by Mazda 6). Asian companies should throw their cameras, stop reading magazines away and start from white paper their new designs. There are excellent asian designers who can do much better than copying style or ideas. When I was at Berlin, I saw again a bunch of asian photographers taking pictures of every single detail of some trains (caught one taking pictures of door opening buttons in train toilets). What do you call this? Market study? Let me laugh. You visit such exhibition to get inspired and motivated, not to copy...

There is no global design or design for the world.
Design is made locally and adopted by the world or not.

If Asia would understand this, they would be much more creative and China would stop dumping crap toys and products in our markets. We love Asia, but not necessary Asian copies that gives us back a faded image of our products in the mirror

Look again front of TGV of Rotem, headlight scheme is inspired by Velaros...
They only thing I would understand is that Alstom gave a licence to Rotem and that Koreans adapted the design...

Or I wander if it is not a first generation TGV refurbishment... I know that SNCF sold some to LaPoste for example. Could be one explanation and smart move then...

The last reason I would understand is that Alstom did not deposited the licence in Korea or Korea did not accept licence of TGV or does not protect well esign and licences (like in China), then Rotem can produce a copy if they want but cannot sell to a country who respects Alstom licences.

Everything is open. I am not sour, I have two friends of Korean origin and discovered a bit of Korea throough them, I just wish Asian companies would make their own true original designs.

When you criticize something you have to do it with the firm proof, not with the firm faith. It's absolutely ok if you think it as a copy but you have to be careful when makeing a assumption. I can't understand how you think ROTEM can ignore Alstom's right. I don't have the details of what's licensed or not in KTX-II so you have any information or source then let me know.

And the ASIA things is totally derailed. If you think it copied TGV or, say, Velaro as you said, then stay on your rail.

The reason I said KTX-II had DNA of TGV is, when they made a contract Alstom agreed to transfer knowledge and technology to korea so that there're many aspects handed down from it with some exceptions.

[Micrav]

Originally Posted by ruready1000

When you criticize something you have to do it with the firm proof, not with the firm faith. It's absolutely ok if you think it as a copy but you have to be careful when makeing a assumption. I can't understand how you think ROTEM can ignore Alstom's right. I don't have the details of what's licensed or not in KTX-II so you have any information or source then let me know.

I think that not knowing I was writing a few possibilities.

Originally Posted by ruready1000

And the ASIA things is totally derailed. If you think it copied TGV or, say, Velaro as you said, then stay on your rail.

The reason I said KTX-II had DNA of TGV is, when they made a contract Alstom agreed to transfer knowledge and technology to korea so that there're many aspects handed down from it with some exceptions.

Then I agree completely and understand fully (was in my text). You say that here has been an agreement between Alstom and Rotem. This explains that

It is common to use car and train technology under contract. Design of KTX is beautiful, nothing to say about it!!! I just regret, and you can allow me this that Korean design is not very Korean style origin, Korean design cars, fridges, cell phones for "Western style" markets, often made by western designers by the way. It looks so European to me (even if it is good for my European colleagues who are not out of job...

Hyundai is changing now, but only recently. Design carries values behind a product, design is not only style. Style is only one function among others, the signature of the designer usually... I really like genuine design from Asia, but maybe I am one of the only (I really like what Mazda does for example, they don't look like any other car nowadays). Don't misunderstand me. I always promote authenticity.

In a very old book I found in a library, one of the first designers who could really bear this name due to his work (Henry van de Velde, created the first design schools in Germany before giving it to Walter Gropius in Weimar that lead to Bauhaus just before WW1, created La Cambre in Belgium, designed first Belgian electric train, houses, jewelry, etc. like it was common at that time), speaking about the column was saying this. More or less, from far memory: "For a building, if you use an ancient column, you need to understand the principle of the column and its ornaments. If you use fake or copy ancient columns nowadays to design a building, then you did not understand something the column." ndlr If the column is wrong, then the onee who makes fake columns for the house is fooling himself.

In this global world, I am pleading for local design that goes international. This is a question of roots. Korea has something genuine to say to the world through products like any other country does. China too. I am expecting true Chinese Design soon with their thousands of designers studying in newly opened schools all over China. I am expecting African product design one day, real Russian good design, etc.

So don't misunderstand me, be inspired by your own culture. This is what is great!

Ex. logo of Belgian Railway designed in 1926 and still in use today. Almost timeless design (doesn't it remind a bit Samsung logo? )

[ArtZ]

Hyundai's KTX-II is one of world's most advanced high-speed train sets.

[Kowiana]

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that Kojects has been relaunched so we should have more info about high speed rail in South Korea up soon. Particularly looking forward to hearing more info about the GTX lines and HEMU this year, so will try and keep you posted.

[aquaticko]

Originally Posted by Kowiana

Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that Kojects has been relaunched so we should have more info about high speed rail in South Korea up soon. Particularly looking forward to hearing more info about the GTX lines and HEMU this year, so will try and keep you posted.

Good to hear; I check your site periodically to look for new developments. And I'm also really looking forward to hearing about those two, especially the GTX. Dunno if you know more about it than I do, but it's basically just a very deep, high-speed network of lines to better connect Seoul satellite cities, right? I haven't heard of anything like that anywhere else.

[Silly_Walks]

Originally Posted by ArtZ

Hyundai's KTX-II is one of world's most advanced high-speed train sets.

Really? A heavy power car in stead of distributed traction? It seems to be just a TGV in a Korean jacket.

I'm not dissing the thing, I like the way it looks, but calling it 'one of the most advanced' requires a little bit more argumentation

[krnboy1009]

Originally Posted by Silly_Walks

Really? A heavy power car in stead of distributed traction? It seems to be just a TGV in a Korean jacket.

I'm not dissing the thing, I like the way it looks, but calling it 'one of the most advanced' requires a little bit more argumentation

Yea I wouldnt go far and call it advanced train set, its pretty neat looking though.

[makita09]

Originally Posted by Silly_Walks

Really? A heavy power car in stead of distributed traction? It seems to be just a TGV in a Korean jacket.

I'm not dissing the thing, I like the way it looks, but calling it 'one of the most advanced' requires a little bit more argumentation

Thought the same, didn't want to risk offence. (Yes rather out of character I know)

[Luli Pop]

Originally Posted by 2co2co

Looks too TGV to me :-S

that's because it IS a TGV!

[maldini]

Originally Posted by Luli Pop

that's because it IS a TGV!

Just a copy of the TGV.

[k.k.jetcar]

Originally Posted by maldini

Just a copy of the TGV.

Well, the KTX-II looks very TGV-like, but the HEMU-400X mock-up looks like a completely indigenous design with distributed power- in this design Rotem can demonstrate more fully their engineering chops.

[Spam King]

why wouldnt they redesign it to make it an EMU? Push-Pull seems to outdated, not to mention EMU would allow for greater capacity because you dont have locomotives at either end.

[ruready1000]

Originally Posted by Spam King

why wouldnt they redesign it to make it an EMU? Push-Pull seems to outdated, not to mention EMU would allow for greater capacity because you dont have locomotives at either end.

You are right. It's somehow outdated now but I think it's unavoidable because korea had no exprience to make high-speed train until HSR-350(or KTX-II). But they now made KTX-II and launched new high-speed rain project(HEMU-400x, or Highspeed Electric Multiple Unit-400㎞/h eXperiment) last year. If this project get results korea will get new high-speed train on 2012 or 2013.

HEMU-400x news

The government plans to shell out big bucks to develop bullet trains, which can run at a maximum speed of 400 kilometers per hour, by 2012.

Science and Technology Minister Kim Woo-sik on Thursday chaired a meeting of science-related ministers to chart the bold scheme on the ultra-fast trains, dubbed the HEMU-400X.

``We will channel 96.4 billion won ($101.9 million) over the next six years through 2012 to build the HEMU-400X,’’ said Bang Yoon-sock, director at the Ministry of Construction and Transportation.

``After years of field tests, the next-generation bullet trains will be commercially launched sometime between 2015 and 2020,’’ Bang predicted.

Of the total to be injected into the six-year project, Bang said, 62.9 billion won will come from the government, which earmarked 8.9 billion won for this year.

The super-fast train is a successor of the HSR-350X, which can reach a speed of 350 kilometers per hour. The country funneled 256.9 billion won to develop the HSR-350X in 2002.

``It took 11 years and more than 250 billion won to build the HSR-350X because we lacked competitive technologies in the past,’’ Bang said.

``However, we think experiences with the HSR-350X will help us substantially reduce costs and time to make the 400-kilometer-per-hour bullet trains,’’ he said.

A total of 100 rolling stocks of the HSR-350X, which is currently under trial runs, will be commercially deployed by Korean Railroad, beginning in 2009.

Korea opened the bullet train era in 2004 when the nation phased in the French-built KTX trains that can run at 300 kilometers per hour.

Source
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?...aid=0000040110

[sotavento]

Originally Posted by Spam King

why wouldnt they redesign it to make it an EMU? Push-Pull seems to outdated, not to mention EMU would allow for greater capacity because you dont have locomotives at either end.

EMU = what ???


Any out-of-depot-not-able-to-uncoupple electric multiple unit is an EMU.