Living in Germany / Moving there - Leben in Deutschland

[puketotara]

Note by moderator erbse: This thread can be used for any requests about the life in Germany, immigration, moving here, the best places to live and relating.

Please keep in mind: Stay friendly (both Germans and foreigners), try to keep it in English and don't post any xenophobic stuff, spam or other questionable things. Thanks


Sidenote: We had 2 other threads like this (Where to live in Germany? & Emigration to Germany). You can have a look at them as well, but beware: They turned into some trollfest later on, so we'll keep it civilized here.


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I'm a New Zealander planning to move to Germany in 2010.

I get a little worried though, with people making such a big deal about racial issues, who has a better country etc.

For people like me, going to another country isn't about making money and living the high life, it's about having some valuable experiences and meeting interesting people from other cultures.

I plan to move to Bonn, because of the various institutions it has, the small size of the city, and the proximity to major German and other European centres.

I could have easily chosen Berlin, Frankfurt or Munich (all places to which I have been) but opted for somewhere (hopefully) less intense.

Is it a mistake for me to come to Europe and not just be looking to make money?

[Justme]

A mistake? Absolutely not.

Keep in mind that many of the people on this forum who rave on about who has the better country are nothing more than kids. You will find most Germans you meet here to be completely different and will have a fond respect for other countries including New Zealand. There are cultural differences though, and many things which a New Zealander my see as a positive attribute may be somewhat surprised that a German may see negatively.

As for racial issues, you will find German's to also be very tolerant people. Like anywhere, immigration can be an issue to some people, though in Germany where there are people who are not favourable of immigrants, it is usually leaning towards mass or illegal immigration from developing countries or the Turkish population. For the first part it is unpopular for some people because of many issues such as those who fear they take other working class jobs for less money, or exploit the social services of this country. Regarding Turkish people it is usually due to their extremely high numbers here and how many of them exclude themselves from German culture.

That said, it rarely resembles racism and I know from my experience that New Zealand has their own issues along similar though of course different lines.

What are your main reasons for coming to Germany? What do you hope to find here? Are you prepared to be so far from your family and friends? Are you prepared for the winters? (well, if you come from the South Island you won't find it that much different). Do you intend a permanent move, long term or just for a short period?

That said of course, there are plenty of wonderful things in this country. Besides feeling considerably safer than NZ, it has better shopping, great culture and architecture, fantastic beer and there is the bonus that you can fly, drive or take the train to more cities in a short period of time than most New Zealanders can imagine. A flight to London is but an hour away, Paris even less. Amsterdam is just a short hop on a train. It really is amazing.

Bonn is a pleasant city, though as you say, very small. It is still a nice place to live and such a short distance from the much bigger Cologne that in NZ it would be considered part of the same city (17minutes by train). It is effectively like living in the Eastern suburbs of Auckland though of course with a downtown all of it's own. Just to put it in perspective though, I have read that within an hour's drive from Cologne there are more than 20million people. Imagine that where you live now. Yet, I can assure you that you will not feel crowded in Bonn.

Being a smaller city though, you will not have such an international feel as you would in say Hamburg, Berlin or Frankfurt. This means that your German language skills are more important. In a place like Frankfurt, you could easily get by entirely in English, but this will not be the case in Bonn.

If you need any advice or have any questions don't hesitate to ask them here. I've lived in New Zealand and know the differences between these two countries and I am also an immigrant here. I'll be happy to help you out.

[puketotara]

well, thanks so much for your reply, very informative

although I wouldn't say Europe is any safer than NZ, that isn't really a concern of mine

I'm prepared for the weather, and the distance - I lived in Prague for half a year in 2008, and found the experience very rewarding, although the language barrier there was difficult

I'm not worried about my German language skills, I studied it a university, and have visited Germany and Austria with no problems

to be so close to so many people but still have a small town feel, is exactly why I find Bonn so appealing,

I plan to spend about 10 years living away from NZ, and have been preparing a number of options for employment to keep myself covered financially, the current depression is causing me some concern at the moment though...

do you mind me asking where you are from originally? what were you doing in NZ?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by puketotara

well, thanks so much for your reply, very informative

Not a problem. As a expat now living in germany and having made that particlular move, as well as living in your part of the world for a while, I'll be happy to answer any of your questions.

Originally Posted by puketotara

although I wouldn't say Europe is any safer than NZ, that isn't really a concern of mine

It certainly shouldn't be a consideration, as both parts of the world are generally safe. But you shouldn't fall in the trap of bundling "Europe" into one basket. Afterall, it is a massive place and some places are safer than others. As for safety, as having lived in both country's I will say that I personally feel safer in Frankfurt than in Auckland. Figures do reflect this as well with Germany having 1.4183 assaults registered per 1000people placing it 26th in the world and NZ having 7.47881 assaults per 1000, at no.7 in the world. Of course, these statistics may be inaccurate because of different ways these cases are registered in each country, but that aside I just feel safer here and here about much less crime.

Originally Posted by puketotara

I'm prepared for the weather, and the distance - I lived in Prague for half a year in 2008, and found the experience very rewarding, although the language barrier there was difficult

That's good. I personally enjoy the winter and the change of seasons. I love it when it snows, and have no problems when the temperature drops below 0°, but then I love it when the first sign of Spring comes. The summers here are very nice and can be much hotter than in New Zealand.

Originally Posted by puketotara

to be so close to so many people but still have a small town feel, is exactly why I find Bonn so appealing,

Then it should be a good city choice for you. One of the interesting things is how the culture and traditions can change in such a short distance. For instance, drink a beer in a pub in Bonn and then compare with how different that is 20minutes away in Cologne, and then travel another 20minutes north to Dusseldorf and the beer is completely different again.

Originally Posted by puketotara

I plan to spend about 10 years living away from NZ, and have been preparing a number of options for employment to keep myself covered financially, the current depression is causing me some concern at the moment though...

I always find it odd when people plan something like a 10year gap living in another country. For me, I just buy one way tickets. I've done this many times and lived in a few different country's in my lifetime. And just leave again when I feel for another change. But I guess everyone is different. I don't know how long I will live in Germany, maybe for life this time around. Afterall, I got married here and that changes things a lot.

Originally Posted by puketotara

do you mind me asking where you are from originally? what were you doing in NZ?

I'm Australian, but have lived in NZ on a couple of occasions for long periods. Both growing up as a child, and also came back as an adult to work there. It's a lovely country and I think Auckland is a very interesting city. Though to be honest I couldn't live in Australia or NZ again. For different reasons, though one is that I am so happy in Europe right now. NZ is a lovely place to live, but I need something bigger and not so isolated.

[puketotara]

Originally Posted by Justme

I always find it odd when people plan something like a 10year gap living in another country. For me, I just buy one way tickets. I've done this many times and lived in a few different country's in my lifetime. And just leave again when I feel for another change. But I guess everyone is different. I don't know how long I will live in Germany, maybe for life this time around. Afterall, I got married here and that changes things a lot.

it's not like a concrete plan, when i say about 10 years, i mean, I'd be happy with 5 or 20, I will be buying a one way ticket and it all depends what happens as to how long i stay

it's so interesting getting other people's perspectives on things...

[Justme]

Originally Posted by puketotara

it's not like a concrete plan, when I say about 10 years, I mean, I'd be happy with 5 or 20, I will be buying a one way ticket and it all depends what happens as to how long I stay

it's so interesting getting other people's perspectives on things...

I think you're going to have a great time. A big change like this is so full of new experiences that at least for the first year you will be very high spirits. After the first year though, many expats start to miss their friends and family, especially when you come from so far away. It's not like you can make a 1hour cheap flight back to the UK to catch up every few weeks. But as you have experience living abroad you will be more prepared for this than many others.

One thing that makes it a bit easier for some is to get English TV. You can buy a sat reciever and get all the TV straight from the UK without any subscription costs, though it's best to talk to someone who's done it already as the sat boxes sold in Germany are not as suitable as the ones you can pick up from the UK. The simple fact is, that with all the wonderful things Germany has to offer, good television is not one of them. For a start, they ruin everything by dubbing and what they ruin is just crap TV anyway. But I would recommend waiting after the 1st year as German TV, crap as it is, is a great way to brush up on your German language skills.

Choosing the right apartment is also another difference from NZ. Here, if you want a "house" you will need to move out into the metro area. Metro area's in germany usually consist of picturisque towns and villages surrounding the city and in the countryside. They are very popular with commuters who have families. Though pretty that they are, they are also quite boring. In the city, you will have a choice of an Altbau apartment, modern apartment or post war. I recommend to stay clear of the post war apartments unless you really are on a budget. These are clearly identified as the ugly cheap looking apartments in between the older ones that were rushed up to house people after the war. They are very poorly made, usually resembling shoe boxes inside but are the cheapest.

Altbau's are the most sort after because they have so much character due to their age. This of course means they maybe the most expensive, but there are still many within lower budgets. Modern apartments can also be nice and are mid range between the post war rubbish and Altbau's. Few apartments except for the modern ones have lifts unlike other country's such as France, so keep in mind lugging up the crates of beer if you move into the 5th floor (though I did notice more lifts in Berlin, maybe this is an eastern Germany thing).

Renting is a real hassle in Germany. They do some things backwards here. For instance, before moving into an apartment, many places ask for at least the first month up front (some more than one month). My memory from Australia was two weeks, but maybe that has changed now). Also, if you find the apartment through a real estate, they will charge you, not the owner. And they often charge around a months rent as well. So, besides you're first month rent, you may need another month for the deposit, and a third month for the real estate. Back in Australia this was the other way around. Besides a small $17 fee to the new tennant, the real estate charged the owner of the flat for finding the tennant, not the tennant who has already done the work finding the real estate. Rented apartments usually are empty of course, but many are completely empty including no kitchen, so you will be expected to install a full kitchen (sick, cupboards, oven etc) when moving in, which can cost a lot of money. In some rented apartments you will also need to put in flooring and all light fittings and be expected to move everything out again (including your brand new kitchen) when you leave - at your own cost! So, moving into a rented apartment can be very expensive.

German's are all used to this and think it's normal. They also stay for obvious reasons in a rented apartment for a long time, as the cost of moving is very expensive.

Oh, they also expect you to paint the apartment when you leave and many rental contracts demand that you use a professional service (and check your reciept that you do) which can cost a lot of money. I have been to various viewings when I was looking for apartments and you could see the shock on new British expat faces when the real estate told them this.... sort of "What! you expect me to pay for your fee, and me to pay for a kitchen and paint the place!?", but yes.

Though you maybe lucky and find an apartment with an installed kitchen and bathroom, don't expect any light fittings unless it is a furnished apartment. These will have everything installed but Generally cost more.

I found a furnished place myself, which suited me perfectly as I had just arrived and had nothing with me. Over the years, I moved the owner's furniture into the celler and replaced with our own.

If you want to buy, well, here you generally need around 40% deposit. Crazy really. Just an hour's flight away, you used to be able to get home loans on 0% deposit, at least before the credit crunch.

Oh, last tip for the day, get an EC card. Open up a bank account before coming to Germany. It is so much easier. So, go to an office in Auckland for a German bank and they will set up your account and have everything ready for when you arrive. If you wait until you come here, you may find it extremely difficult as you won't have any existing German bank accounts they can use as a reference. Apply for an EC card which is a bit like your normal ATM card but with credit. Credit cards such as Visa or Mastercard exist in Germany but very few places accept them here. Don't even think of walking into a restaurant or even a supermarket with only your Visa card. It's like a credit card desert here. So odd. But get one anyway as you can still use it to order CD's or whatever from the Internet (buying from the UK is much cheaper for CD's, DVD's than Germany)

Question: Are you coming here on an EU Passport?

Hope these tips come in helpful

[thun]

Yes, Germany is a credit card desert but you can basically pay everywhere (except maybe most restaurants) with the EC-Card, so that isn't much of a problem at all. Just a different type of plastic in your wallet...

Another suggestion:
Especially if you're younger, did you consider a shared flat? As Bonn has quite a large university, there should be lots of. You generally need much less furniture (maybe just a cheap IKEA bed an a desk) or even nothing at all. The financial stuff tends to be easier as well. (e.g. when you apply for "Zwischenmiete" (the owner of the room isn't in town and rents his room for that limited time, often when he's going abroad or does an internship)).
But the main advantage is that you easily can practice your German, get used to our culture and meet locals (and feel less alone in the beginning). I lived in Spain in a Spanish shared flat and I realized that it helped me a lot to speak about all the basic stuff in Spanish without exceptions to learn the language in a proper way.

[The einziger Emperor]

I want to emigrate to Germany. Where? Soory for my English. My German isn't better.

[Depotmaster]

If you emigrate to Germany you should know that people will demand integration from you, every step you make. And also even the smallest rest of Polish accent will make people treat you different, for they know you are a foreigner. This is not nationalism, its human behaviour. You should be concious that many Polish born "Germans" have identity problems in adult life, and also problems to socialize with German groups. The easiest way to find German friends would be on a Ger university. If you dont find German friends, you will never come out of the Polish bubble, never identify with Germany, and never properly learn the language which is the minimum required to get a good paid job.

Sorry if I hurt someones feelings, but thats what I feel about Poles in Germany

[Max BGF]

^

[erbse]

I just opened this thread by moving posts to have a central place to discuss matters like living in and moving to Germany. I moved the 2 similar threads Where to live in Germany? & Emigration to Germany to the Café Achteck, to keep it tidy and civilized here now.

Please pay attention to the 1st post in this thread as well. Cordial thanks

[slavonac]

What is with scietists (chemistry, phisyics etc.) in berlin? Are there good jobs and salaries

[miau]

There are many jobs in the biotechnology, pharmacology and chemistry in Berlin. For physicists who want to work in the industry it is less good, as there are not so many manufacturers nearby.

[Max BGF]

So where will you move to, miau?

[jvl]

Sorry to interject, but this topic is quite interesting. Germany has been a very interesting country and I had (or still have) dream/fantasy/hallucination of moving there. But I am not sure if there are opportunities due to crisis, and the things I read here.

[Schnitzel]

It depends on what you learned/are learning. So, if you tell us what you're doing maybe we can help.
There are cities with 5% unemployment rate, regions with full employment or regions in east-germany where the unemployment is extremely high yet there are shitloads of jobs for certain job-clusters. As I said, it highly depends on what you plan to do.

[jvl]

Before we move to personal details, is there a place for foreign workers in Germany? I am pertaining to acceptance by the local populace, are they supporting sponsorships, working visa, etc.

I know Germany is an "open market", but the "job market" could be a different story altogether (conservatively traditional?). Therefore, what I do, or what I'm good at, might not matter if the answers to above are "negative".

Well anyway, these could seem as basic questions that you might refer me to the German Embassy website instead.

[Mateusz]

What are the fininancial support options for so called further education students (16-19), are these some kind of grants or some kind of regular payments depending on family income ?

[kato2k8]

Age 16-19? From the government:

Children at that age get Kindergeld (164 €/month for first and second child, 170€ for third, 195€ for fourth and beyond), independant of parents' income.

School children living in a separate household from the parents can from grade 10 on in theory apply for BAFöG, currently 383 Euro/month plus maximum 72 Euro support on rent, as long as either 1) there is no suitable school within reach of your parents' home, 2) you are married or 3) you have a kid of your own.

[7freedom7]

very valuable thread, but i'm wonder why the students from abroad are called ausländisch Studenten but not international students?