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Old March 4th, 2013, 12:39 PM   #1381
carrera7
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Originally Posted by Joker rises View Post
HSR will never happen in India...

Indian needs an successful HSR corridor. A separate line designed for high speed. Say Mumbai - Ahmedadabad. Some thing that has a good chance of success.

Once that happens, it will open up many other projects. Rather like what happened with the Delhi metro. Thats the way things work otherwise there are too many naysayers.

It won't happen till after the elections at least
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Old March 4th, 2013, 03:44 PM   #1382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vishnu max View Post
He means THE TRAINSETS AND TRACKS cost more than existing Trains in India. So HSR WILL NEVER HAPPEN AND IT WON'T SEE DAYLIGHT.
Interestingly, similar comments were made in many countries before HSR were introduced on select routes and then expanded.

Costs are important, but not the only factor that drives infrastructure investments. Jobs creation, empowering the youth and future generations, likely return on investment are prudently considered. If cost was the only factor, you would get some strange and tragic predictions such as:

Motor vehicles and paved roads cost more than existing potholed unpaved muddy roads in country X. So higher speed roads will never ....

Multiple-story buildings and brick+steel+cement construction cost more than existing tin-and-mud slums in country Z. So better housing initiatives will never ....

Schools, university campuses and books cost more than existing illiteracy in country M. So higher education infrastructure will never happen in ....

Hospitals, training nurses and doctors, and producing vaccines cost more than existing quackery and leaving the poor helpless. So investments in medical care will never happen in ....

Why give up so easily? Why shouldn't we ask: how can we create infrastructure that will transform the lives of our future generations, offer a better quality of life?
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Old March 4th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #1383
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Will a common man be able to pay nearly 2500 to travel bw mumbai and ahmedabad. Remember this is a country where there will be riots even if there is 10% increase in railway ticket prices .is there sufficient amount of traffic to recover the costs?

I support semi HSR which will run at 200 kmph and which doesn't need any extra infrastructure.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 12:25 AM   #1384
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Originally Posted by mkaushik1991 View Post
Will a common man be able to pay nearly 2500 to travel bw mumbai and ahmedabad. Remember this is a country where there will be riots even if there is 10% increase in railway ticket prices .is there sufficient amount of traffic to recover the costs?
if the system is totally separate from Indian Railways I don't see why not. It will have to be self funded, with no subsidy whatsoever. Then it can charge what the market will bear
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Old March 5th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #1385
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I think that 2500 is incredibly reasonable to travel over 500 km especially when considering who would be using the system.

Over time the IR first class demographic will definitely change or perhaps even become less popular (unless of course per capita wealth increases at a faster rate than railway ticket prices) and then at least the organization will be forced to innovate in order to adapt to an India which demands standards.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #1386
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First we have to verify how the Rs 2500 was reached. And what class and amenities does that amount buy. It may be possible to design lower cost coach type seating classes. And double-decker trains are very much an option. And in the future more and more Indians will demand better standards and will be willing to pay more for it.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #1387
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Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post

First we have to verify how the Rs 2500 was reached. .
return airfare (Jet Airways) between Mumbai - Ahmedabad is around Rs 5000. Safe to say HSR needs to be competitive

Quote:
And what class and amenities does that amount buy
it buys cattle class on Jet Airways
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Old March 6th, 2013, 03:53 AM   #1388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrera7

Indian needs an successful HSR corridor. A separate line designed for high speed. Say Mumbai - Ahmedadabad. Some thing that has a good chance of success.

Once that happens, it will open up many other projects. Rather like what happened with the Delhi metro. Thats the way things work otherwise there are too many naysayers.
st
This makes too much sense; the railway minister from Bihar will cringe at this thought.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 04:38 AM   #1389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carrera7 View Post
return airfare (Jet Airways) between Mumbai - Ahmedabad is around Rs 5000. Safe to say HSR needs to be competitive



it buys cattle class on Jet Airways
Actually I was asking about what amenities and class would Rs 5000 buy on the train. Anyways I feel Rs 5000 on the train (even HSR one) may still get one better leg space than on a plane (economy class). And one can still have free space around the doors for walking. That freedom is usually very restricted in most flights.

The other moot point is can we estimate the ticket cost on an hypothetical Mumbai-Ahmedabad line based on some analysis? Maybe "Philebus" can come up with some figures.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #1390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
Actually I was asking about what amenities and class would Rs 5000 buy on the train. Anyways I feel Rs 5000 on the train (even HSR one) may still get one better leg space than on a plane (economy class). And one can still have free space around the doors for walking. That freedom is usually very restricted in most flights.

The other moot point is can we estimate the ticket cost on an hypothetical Mumbai-Ahmedabad line based on some analysis? Maybe "Philebus" can come up with some figures.
Estimating ticket prices for India's HSR, one that does not exist, would require too many assumptions and speculation.

An alternate way to get possible estimates is to ask: with world's existing HSR trains, how far can you travel with INR 5000 (US$ 95, Euro 70, GBP 61, March 2013 currency exchange rates).

Let us consider direct exchange rates, discard India's favorable purchasing power parity. FWIW, fuel, supplies, labor salaries and cost of living is generally more expensive in Europe than India.

So, how many kilometers can you travel with efficient 200km/hr or higher HSRs elsewhere in our world for INR 5000 or less, during regular hours on a weekday?

* With SNCF, France, you can go from Paris to Marseille, in April 2013, a train distance of ~700 km, for about INR 2500. (Verify here)

* With DB, Germany, you can go from Munich to Cologne, a train distance of ~550 km, for about INR 3500. (Verify here)

* With Virgin Trains, UK, you can go from London to Manchester in the morning and then return to London the same day, a train distance of ~500 km, for about INR 3500. (Verify here)

* With Japan Railways, you can go from Hiroshima to Nagasaki, a train distance of ~450 km, for about INR 4100. (Verify here)

These are all for standard coach/second class ticket. The typical amenities to expect are described on the websites above. For a quick written summary and pictures: see here.
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Old March 6th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #1391
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Chennai-Bangalore is another good candidate. The distance is 330 kms

currently Indian Railways takes 5-6 hrs!

HSR rail could do it under 2 hours. This will give immediate gains for business travellers, who could go in the morning and come back not too late at night. You could even commute between these two cities. You can fly, but flying is a major hassle for such short distances. Total flying journey time may even be longer.

Plus the project costs will not seem that daunting. The train should be an EMU type (no locomotive) in my opnion
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Old March 10th, 2013, 10:55 AM   #1392
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^That does sound like a good place to start, yes. Cutting travel-time in half compared to "old" rail and at 2 hours it should, like you write, be very competative with air travel. Also, it'll free up capacity on existing rails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishnu max View Post
Then, Our only hope is the Semi High Speed Trains running on existing tracks at 200kmph.
For that to be viable there needs to be plenty of room on the tracks. Up here in tiny Sweden there's talk of building real HSR (the Green party is very much in favour) now. We've had semi-HSR running at 200km/h on old tracks for 20 years. Worked fine for a few years, but now the tracks are almost all full. i.e. delays are VERY common since there's often no way to get back to schedule the same day unless some trains are completely cancelled. Same problem in England. If India doesn't have that problem yet on the conventional lines, it will have it in the not too distant future.
Real HSR is the way to go.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #1393
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High Speed Corridor: DMRC needs more time to submit report

The Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) will need another three to four months to prepare the detailed project report for the ambitious High Speed Rail Corridor aimed at ensuring quick intra-State connectivity by linking Thiruvananthapuram with Kasaragod.

The Kerala High Speed Rail Corporation Limited, the SPV incorporated for implementing the mega project, had asked the DMRC to submit the DPR by November last. “Already, the DPR has got delayed. We need at least another three to four months to submit the final project report,” Principal Advisor of the DMRC E. Sreedharan told The Hindu here.

Pointing out that the DMRC was able to complete only 60 per cent of the survey on the alignment of the high speed rail corridor, Mr. Sreedharan said the inability to take the people into confidence and explain the merits of the project had led to the opposition and delays.

Apprehension of large scale displacement of the people for setting up the corridor was baseless, as the final alignment would involve only 15 metres. Mr. Sreedharan said 80 per cent of the proposed corridor from south to north was either elevated or on underground rails. The corridor would be equivalent to three lanes of bus traffic each way and eight lanes of motor car.

Mr. Sreedharan, who was also the Member of the State Planning Board, said land acquisition was not a problem but mobilising Rs.one lakh crore needed was the biggest challenge. The State should seek the support of the Union government. Japan had also evinced interest in extending financial assistance, he added.

Pointing out that the pressure on the existing transport infrastructure would be relieved once the corridor came up, Mr. Sreedharan said the stretch would be developed industrially, technologically and commercially. “It will be the second commercial corridor of the State and will change the face of Kerala,” he said.

Nine station locations were identified along the 650 km stretch and a tentative route alignment had been worked out. The architect of Kochi Metro and Monorail in Thiruvananthapuram and Kozhikode said the corridor would take care of traffic of two expressways and would be safe and non-polluting compared to the roads that were turning into death traps.

Two parallel tracks each in standard gauge systems, which would be independent of the existing rail network, would be the highlight of the corridor. Initially, trains would run at 200-250 km/hr and at 350 km/hr within two to three years. The eight coach trains would run every 10 minutes during peak hours.

The 220-km between and Kochi and Thiruvananthapuram was expected to be covered in 45 minutes, Kozhikode by two hours, Kannur by two-and-a-half hours, Kasaragod by two hours and 45 minutes, and Mangalore by three and-a-half hours, he said. An air conditioned train would have a capacity to carry 817 passengers.
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Old March 11th, 2013, 03:51 AM   #1394
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Gentlemen, this may be of interest:

Quote:
India near deal to use Shinkansen
The Yomiuri Shimbun

The Japanese and Indian governments are soon expected to reach an agreement on the use of Shinkansen high-speed railway technology for a rail line in India, government sources said.

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is scheduled to visit Japan in late May, and the two governments hope to confirm the agreement during a summit meeting with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe at that time, the sources said.

The rail line to be built using Shinkansen technology would link the cities of Mumbai and Ahmedabad, both in western India, the sources said. A Shinkansen line would shorten the 500-kilometer trip to two hours from the current 10 hours.

The project is predicted to cost from 900 billion yen to 1 trillion yen and involve domestic firms such as East Japan Railway Co. and Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., the sources said.

Work on the line is expected to begin in fiscal 2015 or later, after preparations such as land purchases are completed. If an agreement is reached, this would be the first successful sale of Shinkansen technology as a package deal, including train cars and operating systems, under the government's goal of promoting "package infrastructure exports."

The Indian government, which views the implementation of high-speed railways as a national-level project, began talks with Japan in October.

(Mar. 11, 2013)
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/business/T130310004012.htm
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Old March 11th, 2013, 07:39 AM   #1395
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Good news was that there was no mention of high speed railway in this budget

Why are we on slow track?

indian people want subsidised high speed travel, to go home on weekends
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Old March 13th, 2013, 06:10 AM   #1396
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Pune-Mumbai section dropped from high speed rail corridor plan

In what would be another setback to Pune's connectivity and railway woes, the Railway Board has decided to do away with the Pune-Mumbai section in its high speed Pune-Mumbai-Ahmedabad corridor plan. The bullet train will now run only between Mumbai and Ahmedabad.

The board apparently took the decision due to financial constraints as the budget for the project was considerably shooting up because of the ghat section between Pune and Mumbai.

"It's basically a Western Railway project and very little portion of Maharashtra was being covered under it. Hence, the Maharashtra government was showing little interest in the project and was also reluctant to bear a financial burden. That is the reason why the Railway Board has decided against including the Pune-Mumbai portion in the high speed corridor," said V A Malegaonkar, Chief Public Relations Officer (PRO), Western Railway.

This would be another big blow to Pune after it got a thumbs down in the latest Union Railway Budget. The high speed corridor had a lot of significance for the city. There are a large number of businessmen who shuttle between Pune and Mumbai or Ahmedabad. The bullet train project would have brought the travel time between Pune and Mumbai down to one hour and between Pune and Ahmedabad to approximately three hours.

The project was announced in the 2009 Railway Budget but was progressing at a snail's pace for want of funds and due to technical hurdles. Recently, the project got a shot in the arm when the Indian Railways and the Societe Nationale des Chemins de Fer Francais (SNCF), the French National Railways, signed an MoU for technical cooperation, under which a decision to carry out an 'operations and development' feasibility study on the high speed rail corridor was taken. SNCF also showed interest in funding the Rs 63,000-crore project with support from the country's finance ministry.

Harsha Shah of Railway Pravasi Group said the state government still had time to act and make sure Pune was included in the project again.

"It would be a great misfortune for the city if it misses this opportunity. The state government should immediately approach the Railway Board with an attractive proposal such as easy land acquisition or funds. The project is vital for growth and development of the city and if Pune is kept out of it, it would be a huge loss to the city and its citizens," said Shah.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 04:09 PM   #1397
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IE
Pune-Mumbai section dropped from high speed rail corridor plan
Actually.. I would say this as a good news... I never understood why Pune-Mumbai was there at first place... I agree that Pune is one of the important city, but still it's around 2 hrs only from Mumbai...

And by dropping it will also reduce the cost of the project which makes the Ahmb-Mum more feasible option...

I don't know how many of you would agree, but these are my personal views..
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Old March 14th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #1398
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Ya...also pune and mumbai are connected by a superfast expressway...anyhow highspeed rail is much needed in india to improve age old railway system
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Old March 14th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #1399
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Actually.. I would say this as a good news... I never understood why Pune-Mumbai was there at first place... I agree that Pune is one of the important city, but still it's around 2 hrs only from Mumbai...

And by dropping it will also reduce the cost of the project which makes the Ahmb-Mum more feasible option...

I don't know how many of you would agree, but these are my personal views..
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Originally Posted by Joker rises View Post
Ya...also pune and mumbai are connected by a superfast expressway...anyhow highspeed rail is much needed in india to improve age old railway system
Even Ahmedabad-Mumbai will have an x-way. So does that eliminate the need for HSR. Isn't high speed rail necessary to provide an alternative to (amongst others) car drivers on the expressways.
I think they should have persisted with Pune-Mumbai. With proper selection of alignment even the upcoming Navi Mumbai airport could be on this line and HSR could also serve as a feeder service for international passengers coming from pune, surat, vadodara, ahmedabad and other south gujarat cities.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #1400
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Originally Posted by Smooth Indian View Post
Even Ahmedabad-Mumbai will have an x-way. So does that eliminate the need for HSR. Isn't high speed rail necessary to provide an alternative to (amongst others) car drivers on the expressways.
I think they should have persisted with Pune-Mumbai. With proper selection of alignment even the upcoming Navi Mumbai airport could be on this line and HSR could also serve as a feeder service for international passengers coming from pune, surat, vadodara, ahmedabad and other south gujarat cities.
True.. I agree X-way shouldn't be the criteria to decide if HSR is required or not. However as we know the travel duration between Ahmd-Mum is 7 hrs today and Pun-Mum is around 2 hrs only. So I see implementation of the former route more important as compared to the later one..

Also, another consideration between Pune-Mum route is the ticket cost.. Obviously we all know that HSR tickets would be quite costly... so I doubt people travelling from Pune-Mum would be ready to pay significant amount for a small journey..

PS: Both HSR and Navi Mumbai International Airport are still I feel like a dream and I don't see both of them up and running before 2020
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