daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Asian Forums > Asian Skyscraper Forums > South Asia > Mehfil Pakistan > Transportation and Infrastructure



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 180 votes, 5.00 average.
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #6161
Strong Hearted
Un-registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lahore
Posts: 4,919
Likes (Received): 4783

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intoxication View Post
I still say it is too much. Stop to Stop should be like Rs 5 or so. Halfway should be like Rs. 10 and full journey Rs. 20.
Rs 5 is way too less! We will have to see how many people get effected by the maximum fare of Rs 40 from one end to other end, IMO if 150 people ride a bus at first station from either of the ends, only 10 out of those people would stay in the bus to get off at the last station where as the remaining would get off in between. And if there was no Metro, then the cost of travelling from one end to the other was around Rs 70 - Rs 80, and it took a minimum of two hours. So it still might be acceptable for those commuters!

@metropoles analysis, Some official of the Metro Bus authority told in an interview that MBS reaches its break even points if a total of 30000 passengers travel daily. But to be honest that figure doesn't seem very viable to me.
__________________
My FB page
Team Overc's

Ahmad Rashid Ahmad liked this post
Strong Hearted no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:34 PM   #6162
Metropole
Registered User
 
Metropole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,610
Likes (Received): 19050

At the Rs. 20 fare there's a Rs. 1 billion annual subsidy for the bus line. Since we haven't seen the agreement with the Turkish company we don't know if increasing the number of buses will actually increase the money paid to the Turkish company for the service.

So if they increase the number of buses the annual cost of the project might go up higher then Rs. 1 billion per year.

We still haven't counted the cost of building a new bridge over the Ravi, which may be more than the cost of the whole project. Otherwise the traffic jam over the existing bridge will continue.

The bottom line is that if we want an international quality service we'll have to pay an international price for it. There's no way to avoid that.

Eventually we can afford this and other projects like Metro Rail if Pakistan's economy grows massively.
__________________

Strong Hearted, Intoxication liked this post
Metropole no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:43 PM   #6163
Biegonice
Registered User
 
Biegonice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dżuba / Juba
Posts: 232
Likes (Received): 97

What an interesting approach to get this bus project in Lahore. I have not yet seen a concept of a bus-metro before!
__________________
**************************
www.romanmajcher.eu
Biegonice no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 10:53 PM   #6164
innovators
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,153
Likes (Received): 4412

Metropole man you are awesome brilliant analysis and the calculation of break even on an assumption bases which is some how near to realistic is awful and I support you big time.
__________________

Metropole, Strong Hearted liked this post
innovators no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #6165
Azmuh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 245
Likes (Received): 418

i think there are close to around about 125k-140k people daily....so around 35-40 rupees should be sufficient..

Metro or any type of transport system around the world are rarely self-sufficient, they are always subsided by local governments
__________________

Strong Hearted liked this post
Azmuh no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #6166
FK
Retired
 
FK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12,644
Likes (Received): 1218

Thanks for the analysis, Metro. We also have to consider whether the 100,000 daily ridership stays in the aftermath of this hike. In my opinion this service hasn't been run long enough for people to be hooked onto it, or see the benefit to it. If I were using a service for several months or a year, it's natural for one to adapt change at that time as you're so used to it, and it's part of your daily routine now, but considering this sudden change, it could potentially lead to lower ridership numbers.
__________________
FK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #6167
O2-Lahore
Registered User
 
O2-Lahore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lahore
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1030

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azmuh View Post
i think there are close to around about 125k-140k people daily....so around 35-40 rupees should be sufficient..

Metro or any type of transport system around the world are rarely self-sufficient, they are always subsided by local governments
yes they are subsidized but unfortunately our Govt is not financially strong enough to give subsidies . India & Brazil are way stronger than Pakistan even though they are still underdeveloped nations.

Either we subsidize MBS or give free medicines, this is the situation of all the Govts right now as our economy is in shambles & tax revenue is minimal.
__________________

Khanvict, Metropole liked this post
O2-Lahore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #6168
purenyork123
Registered User
 
purenyork123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 821
Likes (Received): 405

Well maybe it's high time for Pakistanis to start paying taxes or be third world forever. You all seem to elect the same people who don't pay taxes and give a damn, whether it's the ganja brothers or zardari and the 100 thieves.

Also most Pakistanis don't pay taxes. I have extended family from defense karachi to a step cousin former minister in Baluchistan cabinet to a uncle, a commodity trader in quetta,who do the same. We all have family that do the same. The tax culture there Sucks as! And majority of you don't do it too.

"Until then stop wishing for first world amenities. It won't happen unless it's charity by another country"--yea it's blunt but honest.
__________________
This forum is like a third world democracy :)

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." --Mrs. Roosevelt.

I AM A GANGSTA ;p
purenyork123 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2013, 11:52 PM   #6169
Khanvict
Man of the Match
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: DC / RWP
Posts: 276
Likes (Received): 626

I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not but I feel like this project could have been constructed much more efficiently. For example; why bring in fancy buses and to accomodate those buses create expensive terminals. At the end of the day, point of metro bus is affordability and time saving. If either cannot be achieved then it defeats the purpose. Buying expensive buses (which significantly increase maintennce cost) and constructing terminals two feet higher from road is a complete waste of money.
Buying normal buses (which are way cheaper to buy and localy maintained) and building cheaper terminals could have saved a lot of money as well as led to cheaper fair. Both purposes would still be achived (speed and affordability).

Now we have fancy buses and terminals but out of reach for common man.
__________________

Metropole liked this post
Khanvict no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #6170
Metropole
Registered User
 
Metropole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,610
Likes (Received): 19050

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanvict View Post
I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not but I feel like this project could have been constructed much more efficiently. For example; why bring in fancy buses and to accomodate those buses create expensive terminals. At the end of the day, point of metro bus is affordability and time saving. If either cannot be achieved then it defeats the purpose. Buying expensive buses (which significantly increase maintennce cost) and constructing terminals two feet higher from road is a complete waste of money.
Buying normal buses (which are way cheaper to buy and localy maintained) and building cheaper terminals could have saved a lot of money as well as led to cheaper fair. Both purposes would still be achived (speed and affordability).

Now we have fancy buses and terminals but out of reach for common man.
Actually the cost of building the project has no relation to the running costs because the original cost of building the system is gone, never to be recovered. If that money had been borrowed and payments were being made to a bank it would have added another Rs. 1.5 billion ($15 million) to the annual cost.

Running costs come from the money being paid to the Turkish company for the service and income comes from the fares being collected. Costs are higher than the income unless they subsidize fares.

Every time another project like this is built in Lahore or any other city they will have to keep in mind that apart from the initial cost of building the project they have to pay an annual subsidy to keep it running.
__________________
Metropole no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 12:30 AM   #6171
Khanvict
Man of the Match
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: DC / RWP
Posts: 276
Likes (Received): 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropole View Post
Running costs come from the money being paid to the Turkish company for the service

Exactly! thats my point. Why pay Turkish Co.? Why not use local buses to keep the cost low therefore keeping it affordable.
Khanvict no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 12:37 AM   #6172
Intoxication
Everythin bubble of water
 
Intoxication's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London (Islamabad)
Posts: 13,550
Likes (Received): 8165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanvict View Post
I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not but I feel like this project could have been constructed much more efficiently. For example; why bring in fancy buses and to accomodate those buses create expensive terminals. At the end of the day, point of metro bus is affordability and time saving. If either cannot be achieved then it defeats the purpose. Buying expensive buses (which significantly increase maintennce cost) and constructing terminals two feet higher from road is a complete waste of money.
Buying normal buses (which are way cheaper to buy and localy maintained) and building cheaper terminals could have saved a lot of money as well as led to cheaper fair. Both purposes would still be achived (speed and affordability).

Now we have fancy buses and terminals but out of reach for common man.
I disagree. These buses have 3 times the capacity of normal buses and these terminals had to be constructed "two feet high from the road" as there isn't much space on the ground. Otherwise traffic would be clogged.
Intoxication no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #6173
Metropole
Registered User
 
Metropole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,610
Likes (Received): 19050

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanvict View Post
Exactly! thats my point. Why pay Turkish Co.? Why not use local buses to keep the cost low therefore keeping it affordable.
That's a legitimate suggestion.

They had initially imported Daewoo buses for this project for Rs. 1 billion and then signed a deal with the Turkish company which brought it's own buses.

Even if they got the bigger buses and ran the service themselves it would probably have cost less than Rs. 1.5 billion per year and they would have reduced running costs. But they would have had to pay for buying the buses, which at the moment are paid for by the Turkish company.

That might be the way to go in the future.
__________________

Khanvict, Strong Hearted liked this post
Metropole no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 01:24 AM   #6174
Khanvict
Man of the Match
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: DC / RWP
Posts: 276
Likes (Received): 626

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intoxication View Post
I disagree. These buses have 3 times the capacity of normal buses and these terminals had to be constructed "two feet high from the road" as there isn't much space on the ground. Otherwise traffic would be clogged.
They indeed hold 3 times the people but cost 5 time more! Just a general search I did resulted in this: 50 capacity bus for $50,000. 200 capacity bus (like the ones bought) cost $250,000. Why not buy 3 for $150,000 and save $100,000 upfront and then maintenance cost later as well.

by "two feet above ground" I meant since the metro buses' doors are built two feet from road/ground, we had to built terminals two feet high from road/ground as well to align with buses. Had we bought ordinary buses, we would not have had to build such sophisticated terminals. Like Metropole said those are sunk cost and don't generate revenue.

Everyone has their opinion and this is just what I think. MBS is a good idea executed wrongly.

Cheers!
__________________

Intoxication, Strong Hearted liked this post
Khanvict no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 05:37 AM   #6175
shakeelahmadch
Registered User
 
shakeelahmadch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,470
Likes (Received): 1647

hold on to your horses people.

In the news today - Punjab Govt. has said that the news is a hoax - no fare hike is planned.
__________________

TheSir liked this post
shakeelahmadch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #6176
sandiego
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,191
Likes (Received): 1730

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metropole View Post
That's a legitimate suggestion.

They had initially imported Daewoo buses for this project for Rs. 1 billion and then signed a deal with the Turkish company which brought it's own buses.
whats the length of the contract with the Turkish company? 5 yrs or 10 yrs? .....my point is eventually MBS will own the buses then only maintenance cost would incur.

But then i dont know whats the life of these buses.

Another reason the terminal is raised is because the word is that they would convert it to light-rail. when that will happen, only God knows.
sandiego no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 06:43 AM   #6177
xrtn2
Registered User
 
xrtn2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Governador Valadares
Posts: 13,688
Likes (Received): 5972

Quote:
Originally Posted by international Mualiv View Post
I heard the news that they were ordering 19 more buses.....COME ON ..... after spending so much money You are just going to increase the amount of buses. I DID A little research and well THE worlds first BRT in BRAZIL has come up with this. Instead of increasing the number of buses.... they ordered Bigger buses.... ALSO known as BI-articulated buses......They have a capacity of 300 Sitting (double the capacity of current buses)
THIS IS JUST AN OPINION SO please avoid criticism

Hi, this bus isnt in brazil.

But you are right, Curitiba For example has the biggest bus in the World.

28 meters

Imo That's a good option.

Here:
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr
__________________
Que não seja imortal, posto que é chama
Mas que seja infinito enquanto dure.


Vinicius de Moraes

xrtn2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 07:53 AM   #6178
O2-Lahore
Registered User
 
O2-Lahore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lahore
Posts: 414
Likes (Received): 1030

We cannot say anything about the contract between Albayrak & Punjab Govt untill we don't get to see the details of the contract signed. It should have been made public by now!

We still could have run this project on our own, these buses could have been imported from China, all are Pakistanis who are working on MBS, its just the management which is not Pakistani. but I guess Punjab Govt had to give Turkey some share of the pie in return for their contribution towards MBS project plus it feels incompetent when it comes to managing projects.
__________________
O2-Lahore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 12:23 PM   #6179
innovators
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,153
Likes (Received): 4412

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanvict View Post
I don't know if this has been discussed here before or not but I feel like this project could have been constructed much more efficiently. For example; why bring in fancy buses and to accomodate those buses create expensive terminals. At the end of the day, point of metro bus is affordability and time saving. If either cannot be achieved then it defeats the purpose. Buying expensive buses (which significantly increase maintennce cost) and constructing terminals two feet higher from road is a complete waste of money.
Buying normal buses (which are way cheaper to buy and localy maintained) and building cheaper terminals could have saved a lot of money as well as led to cheaper fair. Both purposes would still be achived (speed and affordability).

Now we have fancy buses and terminals but out of reach for common man.
Man some how you are quite right but if you said that now the fare is not under the reach of common man sory dear I won't agree with you, because as you know before mbs the fare of full route is around 80 on the shitty busses but still 40 rupees is quite affordable and under reach of the common man with Soo much pleasure while travelling with the international standard of system and buses . Still that is more than a worthwhile for a common man.
__________________
innovators no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 27th, 2013, 01:15 PM   #6180
OmI92
Skyscrapercity Addict
 
OmI92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lahore
Posts: 13,813
Likes (Received): 40266

No change in bus fare
OmI92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
brt, lahore, metro, pakistan

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu