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Old July 19th, 2013, 02:44 PM   #11921
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I hear you've got quite the head brewer lined up.
As long as he's not a total hop-head brewer.

There's this stuff called malted barley.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #11922
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I'm late to the beer in cans vs. bottles discussion, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

First, I always pour any beer in to a glass, regardless of the package it is in. Letting a beer breathe seems to help the flavor come out a bit more (maybe that's just me, I dunno).

Second, craft beer in cans has a liner to virtually eliminate the tinny taste of cheaper beers.

Third, exterior light is bad for beer. Even dark bottles let in some light. Cans don't let in any, which helps them keep a bit longer.

Fourth, there's actually a decent environmental argument for cans. Less weight means less fuel used in transport. Also, for whatever reason, people are more likely to recycle cans over bottles.

None of this means I won't buy bottles, or that they are bad in any way. But two of my favorite brands of beers to buy are Finch's and Sixpoint, which are all canned, and are all fresh/crisp tasting to me.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #11923
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Thank the nation's worst (or third-worst; Texas and Oklahoma seem to be right down there, even redder and more ruralpublican and suburblican than Indiana) Legislature for the exclusive beer distributorship law.

Don't know if it's Zink or Monarch distributing Sun King, but that's who decides how much it's going to cost at retail. Along with the retailer, of course. 6ers of craft brews at Pogue's Run Grocer are in the $9-12 range...retailers have to make their margin, and that represents a standard markup from the wholesale price.
Only recently did Sun King enter into a distribution deal. They self-distributed until earlier this year and therefore had enormous power to set their own price. Hence my pointed complaint about their ridiculous pricing.

One could also blame Indy beer consumers for accepting that pricing. If people didn't pay it, Sun King wouldn't charge it.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #11924
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Bottles.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #11925
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I love the large pull away tab, I know other local breweries are looking into it, being the first to have it would be a cool thing.

cans keep beer fresher longer.. perfect seal, less oxygen..

cans are less likely to be broken in the streets and give me a flat tire on my bicycle.

cans are easier to transport and can be taken into more events/parks.

craft beer is best consumed from appropriate glassware, drinking of the can/bottle is considered a faux pas by most beer geeks.

No one in Indiana is doing 12oz cans.. and that's a bummer.
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Old July 19th, 2013, 07:19 PM   #11926
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Originally Posted by CorrND View Post
Only recently did Sun King enter into a distribution deal. They self-distributed until earlier this year and therefore had enormous power to set their own price. Hence my pointed complaint about their ridiculous pricing.

One could also blame Indy beer consumers for accepting that pricing. If people didn't pay it, Sun King wouldn't charge it.
SK still self distributes in Indianapolis.. they are using a distributor for Northern/Southern Indiana though.

Edit: Whoops, didn't see that article.. which says.. that.
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Old July 20th, 2013, 12:07 AM   #11927
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Interesting.

Originally the Roberts Park United Methodist Church was supposed to have a very grand steeple. Makes you wonder what sort of impact this spire would have today?




I believe the restoration and reconstruction of historic steeples in our downtown area would help to further define our historic neighborhoods as well as add to the urban atmosphere.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 02:31 AM   #11928
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Sun King supports many, many local non-profit and fundraising initiatives. So the money you spend with them is going right back into the community.

Personally, I won't drink beer from a can. The taste of metal is overwhelming.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 02:33 AM   #11929
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Apropos of nothing.. <cough> I'd like some opinions on the steel and other metal finishes and fixtures in the following link.

http://www.houzz.com/projects/167852/Anderson-Pavilion
That rusty patination makes me think of the desert southwest, where it is used a lot (potentially overused) because it wears well in the blazing sun. I don't think of it as a Midwestern finish. I think of hazy galvanized as a Midwestern metal.

Is that what you meant?
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Old July 21st, 2013, 03:01 AM   #11930
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Originally Posted by libertybell-donna View Post
Sun King supports many, many local non-profit and fundraising initiatives. So the money you spend with them is going right back into the community.

Personally, I won't drink beer from a can. The taste of metal is overwhelming.
Let's do an apples to apples comparison of two very high quality beers from two downtown breweries at their retail pricing at Kahn's Fine Wines:

Flat 12 Pogue's Run Porter
$10.99/72oz = $0.1526/oz

Sun King Osiris Pale Ale
$11.99/64oz = $0.1873/oz

Sun King costs almost 23% more per ounce than Flat 12. Arguably Sun King's higher production volume should translate into lower cost per ounce such that they could undercut the entire Indy market. Yet, there they sit charging 23% more than their nearest volume competitor. I can tell you, they are not giving enough to charity to justify that price premium and they're distorting the price of craft beer in the entire Indy market to boot.

As an experiment, I recommend that anyone that's able check out the price of Three Floyds beers in Madison, WI. You'll find that the price of Three Floyds is cheaper there than in the state where it's produced, which is completely ridiculous.
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Last edited by CorrND; July 21st, 2013 at 03:20 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 07:43 AM   #11931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorrND View Post
Let's do an apples to apples comparison of two very high quality beers from two downtown breweries at their retail pricing at Kahn's Fine Wines:

Flat 12 Pogue's Run Porter
$10.99/72oz = $0.1526/oz

Sun King Osiris Pale Ale
$11.99/64oz = $0.1873/oz

Sun King costs almost 23% more per ounce than Flat 12. Arguably Sun King's higher production volume should translate into lower cost per ounce such that they could undercut the entire Indy market. Yet, there they sit charging 23% more than their nearest volume competitor. I can tell you, they are not giving enough to charity to justify that price premium and they're distorting the price of craft beer in the entire Indy market to boot.

As an experiment, I recommend that anyone that's able check out the price of Three Floyds beers in Madison, WI. You'll find that the price of Three Floyds is cheaper there than in the state where it's produced, which is completely ridiculous.
I smell a beer smuggling business opportunity.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 01:53 PM   #11932
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It is.

We are not in the southwest tho, and I'm not real sure why galvanized over Cor 10 would be a regional choice. I wasn't aware that interior metal finishes had any regionally appropriate guidelines.
I think I get Donna's point:

The "native pallette" of colors in the Midwest includes the light dusty color tones of limestone, as opposed to the painted desert/petrified wood/copper slate colors of the Southwest. Those native colors tend to permeate exterior and interior color choices, regardless of the material.

I'd add that in the Midwest, rust has some negative connotation...as in Rust Belt.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 05:22 PM   #11933
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Bear in mind, moochie, that I waaaaaay overthink material choices and the cultural resonances of them, because that's what I learned to do in seven years of architecture school. The average beer drinker is going to think very differently from how I, and many design-invested people here, do: they won't pick it apart for whatever it's trying to "signify"; they'll just appreciate how it looks. The Corten color is lovely, and it has a nice connection to a workingman's surroundings that seems appropriate to, um, tow trucks, for example, if that's what we're talking about.

On the other hand, cdc guy's point re: rust belt makes sense, too.
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Old July 21st, 2013, 05:30 PM   #11934
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Also, just because I can't stop spouting opinions, apparently: the rusty metal in the staircase at the link is, IMO, an example of too much of a good thing. The walls are spectacular, but then the railings and pickets are all the same material and scale and that starts to dilute the impact of the walls. It all looks muddy. If the walls are this raw tough rusty metal, the part your hand touches should, IMO, be something soft and friendly by comparison as well as visually contrasting: a light maple round rail, for example, on top of glass panels or slender stainless pickets.

The fireman's pole though the middle, of course, is *essential* for any place that people might be drinking.
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 04:02 PM   #11935
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Wow - this is surprising and distressing. Indy scores very poor on upward social mobility:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/bu...tters.html?hpw
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 04:26 PM   #11936
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Wow - this is surprising and distressing. Indy scores very poor on upward social mobility:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/bu...tters.html?hpw
A telling excerpt:
"That pattern makes economists more confident that the characteristics of different regions — as opposed to something inherent and unchangeable in the local residents — are helping cause the varying mobility rates." [emphasis added]

The lowest rates are largely in the big cities that were the "target" of Southern migration (Detroit, Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis), as well as the South generally. Everything south of the Kentucky/Tennessee- Virginia/North Carolina line from the Atlantic to Mississippi River is lower in upward mobility than almost everywhere else.

Interestingly, Appalachia north of the Tennessee and North Carolina borders has better mobility than the cities many Appalachian-Americans fled to in search of a better life. I find this most curious.
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 05:39 PM   #11937
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The "southern migration" was the decades after the civil war when former slaves got on trains heading north, sometimes voluntarily, sometimes not so voluntarily.. is that correct?
My guess is that CDC is talking not just about the "Great Migration" of former slaves and their descendants, but also the migration of white southerners seeking industrial jobs, which gives certain parts of Indianapolis and other midwestern cities a bit of an Appalachian feel.
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:54 PM   #11938
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My guess is that CDC is talking not just about the "Great Migration" of former slaves and their descendants, but also the migration of white southerners seeking industrial jobs, which gives certain parts of Indianapolis and other midwestern cities a bit of an Appalachian feel.
Caucasian southerners and Appalachian people as well as African-Americans, those who migrated north in the Industrial era (1870-1970).

Thomas Sowell and others have written about the similarities between Appalachian and northern urbanized African-American cultures. Sowell, not flatteringly, called the Caucasian Appalachian culture "degenerate Elizabethan", and asserts that African-Americans adopted those ways. Part of it is the whole "demand respect, and fight until I get it", Hatfield-McCoy thing. It has a modern parallel...in the feuding teen gangs in Indy and elsewhere.

Poverty in Indy is pretty colorblind in my observation...even the intergenerational kind.
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 06:57 PM   #11939
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Well, ok then, so a reason for the lack of "upward mobility" could be the various southern cultures' entrenched poverty increasing their presence in northern locales like Indy and Detroit? Am I reading that correctly?
I think that's my point. It also holds in Cincinnati and Columbus, two other cities that received a lot of Appalachian migrants over time.

But again...it is strange that Appalachia itself has better intergenerational mobility.

Here we have a case of "the people who left" actually having less opportunity than their cousins who stayed behind???

Or did the migration itself open more opportunities to those left behind?
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Old July 22nd, 2013, 08:14 PM   #11940
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Sweet! http://www.insideindianabusiness.com...m.asp?ID=60474

Now to cut taxes further. Also Texas take note. You are not the only business friendly state in town now. Better business climate=more jobs and a better city. People move where the jobs are. So lets keep em coming.
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