daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > United States > Midwest and Plains > Local Forums > Milwaukee



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:03 AM   #8841
Jesse276
Registered User
 
Jesse276's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 288

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
Actually you need to pay back student loans, it's not just money you get for free like the train funding would have been. And I'd be willing to make a wager that not all checks dished out by the government are used for their intended purpose....
Wait, so are you for mis-using government funds? That's what you're implying right, that it's ok.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
BTW Walker said he would have kept the money if the Feds would have paid to operate the train in addition to pay for building it. Sounds fair right? That's like me buying you a dog then telling you to take care of it but you don't have money to pay for vet bills and food.
The feds would have paid a portion to operate it. Considering they were paying 100% of the contruction cost & part of the operating cost, that was a much better deal than the freeway expansion. Who's paying for the maintenance on the freeways?

This is an honest question, do you really not know the answers here or are you playing stupid?
__________________

MilwaukeeMax liked this post
Jesse276 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:12 AM   #8842
El Mariachi
I WOULD LIKE POSTS 4 U
 
El Mariachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Lake Michigan
Posts: 6,863
Likes (Received): 3664

I don't want to get into this again but that rail money could have been better used elsewhere in Wisconsin. That money was a drop in the bucket for a $70 billion dollar, true high speed project in California. That's what we should have been aiming for in this state and region.
__________________

Paule liked this post
El Mariachi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:12 AM   #8843
bucksfan15
Registered User
 
bucksfan15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Milwaukee/Wauwatosa
Posts: 2,883
Likes (Received): 2125

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
The feds would have paid a portion to operate it. Considering they were paying 100% of the contruction cost & part of the operating cost, that was a much better deal than the freeway expansion. Who's paying for the maintenance on the freeways?
Why wouldn't they pay for the whole thing? It's not us that wanted to build it.

Freeways get tax dollars because they are a necessity. They are expanded as capacity required them to be. I still pay taxes for the bus system even though I don't use it but the system receives funding because it's a necessity to some people. A high speed train that isn't needed and shouldn't get any of my state tax dollars.
bucksfan15 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:16 AM   #8844
Jesse276
Registered User
 
Jesse276's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 288

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
Why wouldn't they pay for the whole thing? It's not us that wanted to build it.

Freeways get tax dollars because they are a necessity. They are expanded as capacity required them to be. I still pay taxes for the bus system even though I don't use it but the system receives funding because it's a necessity to some people. A high speed train that isn't needed and shouldn't get any of my state tax dollars.
You're talking in circles again, why should we expand the freeways when it has been proven we don't have high or even moderate congestion?

If this is the best you got, I can see why you can't stay on topic.
__________________

MilwaukeeMax liked this post
Jesse276 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:18 AM   #8845
Jesse276
Registered User
 
Jesse276's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 288

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
I don't want to get into this again but that rail money could have been better used elsewhere in Wisconsin. That money was a drop in the bucket for a $70 billion dollar, true high speed project in California. That's what we should have been aiming for in this state and region.
I don't want to go back and forth on this either. As you know the rail money was take it or leave it. Walker left it & the jobs for another state.

We can wish, hope & dream all we want about moving the money around, but that wasn't reality.
__________________

Paule liked this post
Jesse276 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:20 AM   #8846
El Mariachi
I WOULD LIKE POSTS 4 U
 
El Mariachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Lake Michigan
Posts: 6,863
Likes (Received): 3664

Freeways will always be more important than passenger rail. It is the lifeline that allows us to transport goods, service, and freight. Its how most people get to work. Its the reason why the Menomonee Valley is booming, the Port of Milwaukee is successful, and partially why Bay View is emerging as one of the best areas to live in the entire city.

That being said, I don't think we need to expand. Traffic in Milwaukee isn't bad, it just appears so due to a decade of major construction projects. We shouldnt need go spend additional billions for essentially a couple hours of the day. I think people need to move closer to where they work or make better use of the streetgrid.
El Mariachi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:22 AM   #8847
bucksfan15
Registered User
 
bucksfan15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Milwaukee/Wauwatosa
Posts: 2,883
Likes (Received): 2125

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
You're talking in circles again, why should we expand the freeways when it has been proven we don't have high or even moderate congestion?

If this is the best you got, I can see why you can't stay on topic.
It doesn't say we have high congestion now. It says we will in 20 years. Planning for the future which if the original freeway planners would have thought this out more, they would have planned for expansion with wider shoulders to accommodate and additional lane when needed, but they didn't. So, if they start this project in 5 years and finish in probably 10 years. We are prepared for the extra traffic.
__________________

Paule liked this post
bucksfan15 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 12:49 AM   #8848
El Mariachi
I WOULD LIKE POSTS 4 U
 
El Mariachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Lake Michigan
Posts: 6,863
Likes (Received): 3664

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
I don't want to go back and forth on this either. As you know the rail money was take it or leave it. Walker left it & the jobs for another state.

We can wish, hope & dream all we want about moving the money around, but that wasn't reality.
The amount of money that is flat out wasted in this country is astounding. That $800+ million dollars could have been used for a variety of more necessary programs/projects. I blame all three parties (Walker, Doyle, Obama Administration) on how this thing played out. Doyle should have had higher ambitions for our train system instead of rushing for the money like a gluttonous pig. Walker probably should have just taken the money and built the train. The costs of operating it wouldn't have been outrageous and had it failed, it could remain as a 79 mph punching bag for the anti-train Republicans. Had it succeeded, he could have taken some of the credit. He was never going to seriously take any flak for it from the right-wing and the whole ordeal would have obviously been buried by a slightly bigger story that played out the next year and a half. The Feds should have used the money more wisely than diluting it, pretty much throwing it away. Money that could have made a massive impact in a state like Wisconsin was handed out to a state laying off teachers and public employees--to build a $70+ billion dollar project.
__________________

Paule liked this post
El Mariachi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 01:23 AM   #8849
Paule
Registered User
 
Paule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wausau
Posts: 2,574
Likes (Received): 704

Gall dang it! I'm finding myself agreeing with everyone here.
__________________

El Mariachi liked this post
Paule no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 01:40 AM   #8850
Disco_Scooter
Registered User
 
Disco_Scooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: An hour from Milwaukee, 35 mins from Madison
Posts: 95
Likes (Received): 84

Quote:
Originally Posted by UWsteve2009 View Post
Walker now says there is a surplus. While i don't trust ANYTHING a politician says. That is what we are "told". Lots of shady math done by both donkeys and elephants.
...

It's a surplus for FY2013 built upon future deficits. You know, when he won't have to be around to deal with it.
Disco_Scooter no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 04:31 AM   #8851
bucksfan15
Registered User
 
bucksfan15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Milwaukee/Wauwatosa
Posts: 2,883
Likes (Received): 2125

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco_Scooter View Post
It's a surplus for FY2013 built upon future deficits. You know, when he won't have to be around to deal with it.
Spoken like a true lib...
bucksfan15 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 04:47 AM   #8852
El Mariachi
I WOULD LIKE POSTS 4 U
 
El Mariachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Near Lake Michigan
Posts: 6,863
Likes (Received): 3664

This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
__________________
El Mariachi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 05:22 AM   #8853
Milwaukee, WY
Front Range expatriate
 
Milwaukee, WY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Milwaukee, Cheyenne, Fort Collins
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 305

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
Good call!

I hope so. Hopefully those who are behind this freshwater initiative are correct and in 20 years Milwaukee will be the Silicon Valley of water. It would bode well for the future. If Phoenix has any prayer of surviving long term, it will be in technology, not in diverting Great Lakes water. If we can be the water technology brain trust, we'll be sitting pretty.
__________________
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like uh, your opinion, man.

El Mariachi liked this post

Last edited by Milwaukee, WY; August 1st, 2013 at 03:11 PM.
Milwaukee, WY no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 03:03 PM   #8854
Jesse276
Registered User
 
Jesse276's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 766
Likes (Received): 288

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
It doesn't say we have high congestion now. It says we will in 20 years. Planning for the future which if the original freeway planners would have thought this out more, they would have planned for expansion with wider shoulders to accommodate and additional lane when needed, but they didn't. So, if they start this project in 5 years and finish in probably 10 years. We are prepared for the extra traffic.
You're very gullible thinking we'll reach those levels of congestion. We're not even reaching the estimates now and all signs are pointing to VMT stagnating. Ha, I bet when they propose a tax to pay for this, you'll be the first in line waving your checkbook.

The road builders union and management really appreciate people like you, they're looking at 2nd homes and now can afford Cape Cod instead of Door County.
__________________

MilwaukeeMax, gobrewers liked this post
Jesse276 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 04:06 PM   #8855
chitrek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 385
Likes (Received): 404

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
And continuing with this new subject...

I could definitely see the inner harbor as well as the area around the new water council facility both becoming incredibly successful. Along with that, a revitalized 2nd street (more than what is currently going on) and buildings filling in the open lots on 1st.

When I lived in Milwaukee (4th and Washington was the last location) I was always surprised how slowly the progress in Walkers Point was going given its proximity to downtown.
__________________

El Mariachi liked this post
chitrek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 04:32 PM   #8856
mbradleyc
I believe.
 
mbradleyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol and Milwaukee. Wisconsin. Sort of.
Posts: 2,727
Likes (Received): 2210

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
I'm sure it will. It's a better location. It needs more effort, but ten years can do a lot. There are some differences that will bear on the finished product: the sewer works are not going anywhere and although I think they have done a nice job making that operation aesthetically pleasing to look at, it's still a sewer plant. I never really noticed any smells from it, but it isn't something you'll find on brochures for townhomes.

Also the Port is a fully functioning and very strong operation. There are areas that will not be available for walkways and paths and there will always be sight and sound around the clock for half the year associated with it.

That still leaves about half of the harbor available for redevelopment. The more the rivers flowing in to it are cleaned up and maintained, the better the overall health of the water and flora and fauna.

This is where the continued expansion of the deep tunnels and reconstruction/remediation of the entire metro sewer system fits in. But if we are going to be the water capitol of the world, this is what has to happen.

I'm excited.
__________________
"Chewie, we're home."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

El Mariachi liked this post
mbradleyc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 05:13 PM   #8857
EasyK83
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 788
Likes (Received): 850

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
The Inner Harbor does have some comparable advantages in terms of infrastructure, good rail harbor and interstate access. I also think that as Walker's Point develops into more of a residential office sector that some of the businesses in Walker's Point will wind up moving into the inner harbor.

If it does wind up as successful as the Valley it'll certainly mark a remarkable transformation. An entire belt of prosperous communities and businesses running along the lake an stretching out into the heart of the city and it's western boundaries.
__________________

El Mariachi liked this post
EasyK83 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 06:14 PM   #8858
EasyK83
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 788
Likes (Received): 850

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol View Post
I'm sure it will. It's a better location. It needs more effort, but ten years can do a lot. There are some differences that will bear on the finished product: the sewer works are not going anywhere and although I think they have done a nice job making that operation aesthetically pleasing to look at, it's still a sewer plant. I never really noticed any smells from it, but it isn't something you'll find on brochures for townhomes.

Also the Port is a fully functioning and very strong operation. There are areas that will not be available for walkways and paths and there will always be sight and sound around the clock for half the year associated with it.

That still leaves about half of the harbor available for redevelopment. The more the rivers flowing in to it are cleaned up and maintained, the better the overall health of the water and flora and fauna.

This is where the continued expansion of the deep tunnels and reconstruction/remediation of the entire metro sewer system fits in. But if we are going to be the water capitol of the world, this is what has to happen.

I'm excited.
Agree, I don't see the city trying to put town homes in the inner harbor. They have the area slated for water tech/industry, which should power redevelopment of the Walker's Point and Bayview communities. I wouldn't say that MMSD is an eyesore or that it will hurt the redevelopment efforts. If you're a water tech company, say developing microbes to more efficiently break down wastes that MMSD facility isn't an eye sore it's a gold mine, a veritable palace of poop.
__________________

mbradleyc, El Mariachi liked this post
EasyK83 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 06:17 PM   #8859
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 55,765
Likes (Received): 46481

Off-topic posts deleted. Here's a handy primer:

Development news and topics go here.


Politics and off-topic stuff goes ------------------------------> Skybar
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2013, 06:37 PM   #8860
VVisconsin08
Moderator
 
VVisconsin08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Madison/Milwaukee/Chicago
Posts: 1,910
Likes (Received): 2998

My hope is that the inner harbor develops a little more densely than the valley has. While the redevelopment of the Menomonee Valley has been nothing short of a stellar, i wish it didn't have the feel of a suburban office/industrial park. It would be nice to see some of these labs and facilities work together to establish a uniform look and density as they develop the land. I'm digging the illustrations of UWM's new building down there.
__________________

El Mariachi, Rogee liked this post
VVisconsin08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
milwaukee, wisconsin

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu