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Old August 1st, 2013, 12:22 AM   #8841
bucksfan15
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Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
You're talking in circles again, why should we expand the freeways when it has been proven we don't have high or even moderate congestion?

If this is the best you got, I can see why you can't stay on topic.
It doesn't say we have high congestion now. It says we will in 20 years. Planning for the future which if the original freeway planners would have thought this out more, they would have planned for expansion with wider shoulders to accommodate and additional lane when needed, but they didn't. So, if they start this project in 5 years and finish in probably 10 years. We are prepared for the extra traffic.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 12:49 AM   #8842
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I don't want to go back and forth on this either. As you know the rail money was take it or leave it. Walker left it & the jobs for another state.

We can wish, hope & dream all we want about moving the money around, but that wasn't reality.
The amount of money that is flat out wasted in this country is astounding. That $800+ million dollars could have been used for a variety of more necessary programs/projects. I blame all three parties (Walker, Doyle, Obama Administration) on how this thing played out. Doyle should have had higher ambitions for our train system instead of rushing for the money like a gluttonous pig. Walker probably should have just taken the money and built the train. The costs of operating it wouldn't have been outrageous and had it failed, it could remain as a 79 mph punching bag for the anti-train Republicans. Had it succeeded, he could have taken some of the credit. He was never going to seriously take any flak for it from the right-wing and the whole ordeal would have obviously been buried by a slightly bigger story that played out the next year and a half. The Feds should have used the money more wisely than diluting it, pretty much throwing it away. Money that could have made a massive impact in a state like Wisconsin was handed out to a state laying off teachers and public employees--to build a $70+ billion dollar project.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 01:23 AM   #8843
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Gall dang it! I'm finding myself agreeing with everyone here.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 01:40 AM   #8844
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Originally Posted by UWsteve2009 View Post
Walker now says there is a surplus. While i don't trust ANYTHING a politician says. That is what we are "told". Lots of shady math done by both donkeys and elephants.
...

It's a surplus for FY2013 built upon future deficits. You know, when he won't have to be around to deal with it.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 04:31 AM   #8845
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It's a surplus for FY2013 built upon future deficits. You know, when he won't have to be around to deal with it.
Spoken like a true lib...
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Old August 1st, 2013, 04:47 AM   #8846
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This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
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Old August 1st, 2013, 05:22 AM   #8847
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Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
Good call!

I hope so. Hopefully those who are behind this freshwater initiative are correct and in 20 years Milwaukee will be the Silicon Valley of water. It would bode well for the future. If Phoenix has any prayer of surviving long term, it will be in technology, not in diverting Great Lakes water. If we can be the water technology brain trust, we'll be sitting pretty.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 03:03 PM   #8848
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Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
It doesn't say we have high congestion now. It says we will in 20 years. Planning for the future which if the original freeway planners would have thought this out more, they would have planned for expansion with wider shoulders to accommodate and additional lane when needed, but they didn't. So, if they start this project in 5 years and finish in probably 10 years. We are prepared for the extra traffic.
You're very gullible thinking we'll reach those levels of congestion. We're not even reaching the estimates now and all signs are pointing to VMT stagnating. Ha, I bet when they propose a tax to pay for this, you'll be the first in line waving your checkbook.

The road builders union and management really appreciate people like you, they're looking at 2nd homes and now can afford Cape Cod instead of Door County.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 04:06 PM   #8849
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Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
And continuing with this new subject...

I could definitely see the inner harbor as well as the area around the new water council facility both becoming incredibly successful. Along with that, a revitalized 2nd street (more than what is currently going on) and buildings filling in the open lots on 1st.

When I lived in Milwaukee (4th and Washington was the last location) I was always surprised how slowly the progress in Walkers Point was going given its proximity to downtown.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 04:32 PM   #8850
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Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
I'm sure it will. It's a better location. It needs more effort, but ten years can do a lot. There are some differences that will bear on the finished product: the sewer works are not going anywhere and although I think they have done a nice job making that operation aesthetically pleasing to look at, it's still a sewer plant. I never really noticed any smells from it, but it isn't something you'll find on brochures for townhomes.

Also the Port is a fully functioning and very strong operation. There are areas that will not be available for walkways and paths and there will always be sight and sound around the clock for half the year associated with it.

That still leaves about half of the harbor available for redevelopment. The more the rivers flowing in to it are cleaned up and maintained, the better the overall health of the water and flora and fauna.

This is where the continued expansion of the deep tunnels and reconstruction/remediation of the entire metro sewer system fits in. But if we are going to be the water capitol of the world, this is what has to happen.

I'm excited.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 05:13 PM   #8851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Mariachi View Post
This looks like its going to go well.

Being a veteran of this board, I'll change the subject. Will the inner harbor area be the as successful as the Menomonee Valley?
The Inner Harbor does have some comparable advantages in terms of infrastructure, good rail harbor and interstate access. I also think that as Walker's Point develops into more of a residential office sector that some of the businesses in Walker's Point will wind up moving into the inner harbor.

If it does wind up as successful as the Valley it'll certainly mark a remarkable transformation. An entire belt of prosperous communities and businesses running along the lake an stretching out into the heart of the city and it's western boundaries.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:14 PM   #8852
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Originally Posted by Eriol View Post
I'm sure it will. It's a better location. It needs more effort, but ten years can do a lot. There are some differences that will bear on the finished product: the sewer works are not going anywhere and although I think they have done a nice job making that operation aesthetically pleasing to look at, it's still a sewer plant. I never really noticed any smells from it, but it isn't something you'll find on brochures for townhomes.

Also the Port is a fully functioning and very strong operation. There are areas that will not be available for walkways and paths and there will always be sight and sound around the clock for half the year associated with it.

That still leaves about half of the harbor available for redevelopment. The more the rivers flowing in to it are cleaned up and maintained, the better the overall health of the water and flora and fauna.

This is where the continued expansion of the deep tunnels and reconstruction/remediation of the entire metro sewer system fits in. But if we are going to be the water capitol of the world, this is what has to happen.

I'm excited.
Agree, I don't see the city trying to put town homes in the inner harbor. They have the area slated for water tech/industry, which should power redevelopment of the Walker's Point and Bayview communities. I wouldn't say that MMSD is an eyesore or that it will hurt the redevelopment efforts. If you're a water tech company, say developing microbes to more efficiently break down wastes that MMSD facility isn't an eye sore it's a gold mine, a veritable palace of poop.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:17 PM   #8853
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Off-topic posts deleted. Here's a handy primer:

Development news and topics go here.


Politics and off-topic stuff goes ------------------------------> Skybar
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:37 PM   #8854
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My hope is that the inner harbor develops a little more densely than the valley has. While the redevelopment of the Menomonee Valley has been nothing short of a stellar, i wish it didn't have the feel of a suburban office/industrial park. It would be nice to see some of these labs and facilities work together to establish a uniform look and density as they develop the land. I'm digging the illustrations of UWM's new building down there.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:51 PM   #8855
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[QUOTE=MilwaukeeMax;105759361]As some very wise planners have noted, widening highways to alleviate congestion is like a fat man using the next hole over on his belt to deal with his obesity. QUOTE]

Fantastic analogy.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:53 PM   #8856
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Originally Posted by bucksfan15 View Post
Pretty sure it's also a fact that bus ridership has steadily declined yet people still cry about losing bus funding and bus routes being discontinued.
This comment has flawed logic, decreased routes and higher fares lead to decreased ridership. These aren't comparable situations.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 06:55 PM   #8857
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I was going to continue the back and forth with Bucksfan, but we've moved on. I'll let it lie.

Last edited by AcctStdntUWM; August 1st, 2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 07:01 PM   #8858
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Originally Posted by VVisconsin08 View Post
My hope is that the inner harbor develops a little more densely than the valley has. While the redevelopment of the Menomonee Valley has been nothing short of a stellar, i wish it didn't have the feel of a suburban office/industrial park. It would be nice to see some of these labs and facilities work together to establish a uniform look and density as they develop the land. I'm digging the illustrations of UWM's new building down there.
Completely agree with this. I would love to see the city focus on creating a dense and very eco-friendly area for the port. With the water technology focus, why not almost have a theme. Bioswalls everywhere, permiable pavement, natural vegetation rehab, and hell how about some fountains and small works of public art to reflect what water means to this city and to life in general.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:09 PM   #8859
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Originally Posted by AcctStdntUWM View Post
Completely agree with this. I would love to see the city focus on creating a dense and very eco-friendly area for the port. With the water technology focus, why not almost have a theme. Bioswalls everywhere, permiable pavement, natural vegetation rehab, and hell how about some fountains and small works of public art to reflect what water means to this city and to life in general.
Agree on most of that but I don't know about the public art, most public art produced today makes me think of The Emperor's New Clothes. A so called artist creates a concept for a big heap of metal and tells the committee that it celebrates the human spirit, triumph, loyalty, love etc... Committee then awards so called artist hundreds of thousands to produce giant heap of metal and concrete. The result, angry residents, lowered property values and tourists who say things like "what the hell is that?" Im not sure how Stratiformis part 2 or another tinker toy monstrosity like that thing that obstructs the sight lines of the Art Museum will improve Milwaukee.

Speaking of Stratiformis, the City could have accomplished a similar effect for a lot less by just letting nearby residents dump their trash in the square.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 08:13 PM   #8860
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[QUOTE=AcctStdntUWM;105786510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilwaukeeMax View Post
As some very wise planners have noted, widening highways to alleviate congestion is like a fat man using the next hole over on his belt to deal with his obesity. QUOTE]

Fantastic analogy.
So according to this logic, the solution to obesity would be to lose weight as opposed to just loosening a belt. Would that mean that instead of widening lanes to deal with additional capacity, the Milwaukee metro area should just regulate it's population?
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