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Old September 9th, 2013, 10:44 PM   #2381
Carver02
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Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
No it doesn't, it's a normal building, go see hotels in most cities are like that. Tearing it down would be criminal. Roha is right.

Have you been to the building? It is completely inappropriate for a hotel. The floorplan would have to completely changed. You would need to add scores of bathrooms and a significant amount of wiring. Thus you need structural, plumbing, and electrical changes. That will be cost-prohibitive.

Again, people will not pay premium prices to sleep that close to the sidewalk in that area. Any hotel there would receive horrible reviews based on its location, making it difficult/impossible for the developer to recoup their investment - meaning: That building will not be converted into a hotel.

I never suggested tearing it down. It's an office building, and in that role it is minimally adequate. If you want to build a hotel, then build a hotel (elsewhere).
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #2382
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Addis isn't Rome or Paris; Addis operates differently. People will not pay premium prices to sleep close to the street in that area. Anyone who wants to build a mid-range to premium hotel has much better options than trying to re-purpose that building, such as new construction. I've been to the building.
Why not? If it's an issue of noise, there are windows that can reduce noise.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #2383
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Originally Posted by lalibela View Post
Quite a poetry, in a different sight it might be a contemporary artist's representation of his insight . I wonder what your ideal building is? On a different note are you the one that replied back on the guardians "Ethiopia seen outside the box"?
lalibela,

Thanks for the nice words. But you better not flatter me like that ... lest, I would make believe that I have it in me to go set up an architectural digest publishing in addis .. just for a chance to beat up on buildings like that!

About the gurdian thing you mentioned ... you remember that song ... it wasn't me!

I love the old commercial bank of Ethiopia building; I think nothing compares to it in addis so far. Such a quiet charisma it has .. I love it. These new fool buildings think that they can outshine it by drinking awful colors and assuming awful shapes!
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #2384
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Have you been to the building? It is completely inappropriate for a hotel. The floorplan would have to completely changed. You would need to add scores of bathrooms and a significant amount of wiring. Thus you need structural, plumbing, and electrical changes. That will be cost-prohibitive.

Again, people will not pay premium prices to sleep that close to the sidewalk in that area. Any hotel there would receive horrible reviews based on its location, making it difficult/impossible for the developer to recoup their investment - meaning: That building will not be converted into a hotel.

I never suggested tearing it down. It's an office building, and in that role it is minimally adequate. If you want to build a hotel, then build a hotel (elsewhere).
Such changes are par for the course for any hotel conversion. Anywhere. What's wrong with the location? It's in the heart of Piassa. Hotels don't have to be hermetically sealed, fenced-off compounds like the Hilton, Sheraton, and Ghion. You seem to be taking the city as some sort of negative.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 12:08 AM   #2385
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Oh, lalibela, this is cool too! But I still like the old commercial bank of Ethiopia building better.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 12:15 AM   #2386
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Are you talking about the one near the National Theater?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 12:36 AM   #2387
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Why not? If it's an issue of noise, there are windows that can reduce noise.
Took it right out of my mouth. I'd like to think thats how hotels in lower manhattan (and elsewhere) function.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 12:39 AM   #2388
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Yeah, but not the white one right across it ... the older one, I think you just posted a nice picture of it somewhere above.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 01:10 AM   #2389
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Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
Why not? If it's an issue of noise, there are windows that can reduce noise.
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Originally Posted by mike7743 View Post
Took it right out of my mouth. I'd like to think thats how hotels in lower manhattan (and elsewhere) function.
Many hotels in other cities also use height to help reduce the city noise in guest rooms. But even if the noise could be adequately tempered here, both of you are greatly under-appreciating the difficulty and cost involved with converting an office building into a hotel. As I said, you will need structural, plumbing, and electrical work.

What is the business case for converting this building into a hotel? Why should the government/EEPCo sell it? Why is this property so superior to the many others (including those nearby) that could be developed as a hotel, that a developer would take on the time, complexity, cost, and frustration of converting this building?

The business case is extremely weak, to say the least.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 02:45 AM   #2390
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Yosef- do something! This is just getting too much, Habesh is frothing at the mouth, Ras Siyan is threatening to ban yet another appreciated user, and Hersh is pulling out the "homophobes are homosexuals" card!
I have made it clear to you before to you that you need to watch your habit of making claims which are not borne out by the facts, especially where they pertain to me. Now if you don't mind, please point out where I said that homophobes are homosexuals.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #2391
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Originally Posted by Carver02 View Post
Many hotels in other cities also use height to help reduce the city noise in guest rooms. But even if the noise could be adequately tempered here, both of you are greatly under-appreciating the difficulty and cost involved with converting an office building into a hotel. As I said, you will need structural, plumbing, and electrical work.

What is the business case for converting this building into a hotel? Why should the government/EEPCo sell it? Why is this property so superior to the many others (including those nearby) that could be developed as a hotel, that a developer would take on the time, complexity, cost, and frustration of converting this building?

The business case is extremely weak, to say the least.

I didn't advocate for the place to become a hotel. Just one of your reasonings/concerns, as Simfan pointed out, can easily be addressed if there's ever a need to go ahead with the plan.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:00 AM   #2392
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I have made it clear to you before to you that you need to watch your habit of making claims which are not borne out by the facts, especially where they pertain to me. Now if you don't mind, please point out where I said that homophobes are homosexuals.

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If you are struggling with being a homosexual yourself, find it deep inside to have the courage to accept yourself. We do know that a lot of people with this level of hatred for gays tend to secretly be gay themselves. It behooves you to work on accepting yourself rather than telling people you hate them as much as you apparently hate yourself.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 05:50 AM   #2393
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Hersh,

I was like, woah, why is Hersh setting himself for a fall with this challenge to Simfan? ... because I clearly remembered your words even before simfan brought them back for us all to see. lol But to be honest, I am familiar with the idea of what you said. I don't think you need to run away from it, for what it's worth.

Guys,

Can we now please let this hotel renovation debate rest? It sounds like you guys have already invested millions on one or the other side of the argument and that it won't be just the debate that you would lose.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:52 AM   #2394
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Not to be mean or anything, but you are really starting to seem less bright than I had come to conclude. Read what I said in context. The paragraph starts with, "if you are struggling with being a homosexual..." It was a conditional statement. Anything that follows that is relevant only in when the "if" condition is true.

Secondly, even if the statement were not conditional, the segment you highlighted in no way suggests that homophobes are homosexuals. What you are attempting to do here is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. This is like taking the statement, "we do know that a lot of the priests who abuse little children were once victims of abuse themselves," and concluding that it meant "priests are pedophiles."

Ridiculous.

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Hersh,

I was like, woah, why is Hersh setting himself for a fall with this challenge to Simfan? ... because I clearly remembered your words even before simfan brought them back for us all to see. lol But to be honest, I am familiar with the idea of what you said. I don't think you need to run away from it, for what it's worth.
You should probably join Simfan34 in a remedial course on reading comprehension.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 02:36 PM   #2395
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Not to be mean or anything, but you are really starting to seem less bright than I had come to conclude. Read what I said in context. The paragraph starts with, "if you are struggling with being a homosexual..." It was a conditional statement. Anything that follows that is relevant only in when the "if" condition is true.
We know that you are the brightest in this forum but I thought the condition ends in the first sentence with full stop?

Quote:
Secondly, even if the statement were not conditional, the segment you highlighted in no way suggests that homophobes are homosexuals. What you are attempting to do here is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. This is like taking the statement, "we do know that a lot of the priests who abuse little children were once victims of abuse themselves," and concluding that it meant "priests are pedophiles."

Ridiculous.
I agree, because you used the word "tend" in your sentence.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 03:33 PM   #2396
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guys come on.....
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Old September 10th, 2013, 03:45 PM   #2397
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both credited to Mario Knight @ Flickr
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:21 PM   #2398
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Originally Posted by Hersh View Post
Not to be mean or anything, but you are really starting to seem less bright than I had come to conclude. Read what I said in context. The paragraph starts with, "if you are struggling with being a homosexual..." It was a conditional statement. Anything that follows that is relevant only in when the "if" condition is true.

Secondly, even if the statement were not conditional, the segment you highlighted in no way suggests that homophobes are homosexuals. What you are attempting to do here is a classic case of reductio ad absurdum. This is like taking the statement, "we do know that a lot of the priests who abuse little children were once victims of abuse themselves," and concluding that it meant "priests are pedophiles."

Ridiculous.
Come on. This sort of grammatical contortion is fooling no one. You made a general statement, that "a lot of people with this level of hatred for gays tend to secretly be gay themselves". That is as general as you can get, and acting like what I said was completely incorrect because you can hide behind the idea you weren't saying all people with such a hatred for gays weren't necessarily gays themselves is completely preposterous.

Roha is right in pointing out that you separated your conditional statement, which specifically referred to the possibility of Habesh's homosexuality and his acceptance thereof, from your generalisation, which referred to homophobes in general. Saying that the second sentence is somehow conditional as well is nonsensical. It is akin to saying that "If it is a hot summer day, one should put on some sunscreen. We know that many days in summer are hot." Would it be a mischaracterisation to say that "Hersh is saying that summer days are hot"?

But it's not like I was constructing a mathematical proof or something. You and I both know it's ridiculous to act as if such precision is required for my characterisation of your generalisation to merely be representative.

Anyway, this whole argument is silly. We're not even arguing about being gay, we're arguing about grammar! Let me take my own advice and let's just move on...
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Old September 10th, 2013, 04:45 PM   #2399
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Sorry Yosef, just a few closing words ...

Hersh reminds me of president Clinton's Monica Lewinsky trap - declaring "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Hersh, we all said your writing is good, but it can hardly make butter out of mud.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #2400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simfan34 View Post
Come on. This sort of grammatical contortion is fooling no one. You made a general statement, that "a lot of people with this level of hatred for gays tend to secretly be gay themselves". That is as general as you can get, and acting like what I said was completely incorrect because you can hide behind the idea you weren't saying all people with such a hatred for gays weren't necessarily gays themselves is completely preposterous.
Am I not the author of my statements? It is one thing to dissect the meaning of my statements, but to think that you can then extrapolate from it what my intentions are despite me telling you otherwise, is the only preposterous thing here. If I wanted to say "all," I could have said it; if I wanted to say "most," I could have also said it. I said "a lot," as in a large number. Like, a lot of people who are obese also have diabetes. There is no proportional value attached to it. What of this do you not get?

Quote:
Roha is right in pointing out that you separated your conditional statement, which specifically referred to the possibility of Habesh's homosexuality and his acceptance thereof, from your generalisation, which referred to homophobes in general. Saying that the second sentence is somehow conditional as well is nonsensical. It is akin to saying that "If it is a hot summer day, one should put on some sunscreen. We know that many days in summer are hot." Would it be a mischaracterisation to say that "Hersh is saying that summer days are hot"?
Yes, it would be. Not only would you be generalizing, you would also be missing the point. The only reason why you do not think it is a mischaracterization is because you already hold the general assumption that summer days are hot.

If someone asked you what the point of Hersh's statement was, what would your answer be? That Hersh thinks summers are hot, or that he recommends that if it is a hot summer day, you should probably put on some screen?

Quote:
But it's not like I was constructing a mathematical proof or something. You and I both know it's ridiculous to act as if such precision is required for my characterisation of your generalisation to merely be representative.
No, we do not. I do not make such paltry generalizations out of your statements that have nothing to do with the point being made. It is not that hard unless you have some ulterior motives.

Quote:
Anyway, this whole argument is silly. We're not even arguing about being gay, we're arguing about grammar! Let me take my own advice and let's just move on...
Wtf? How is this about grammar? This is about you taking what I said and completely distorting it because the narrative happens to be as sore spot for a lot of conservatives. (Disclaimer: "a lot of conservatives" does not mean "all conservatives," or even "most.")
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