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Old September 16th, 2013, 05:15 AM   #81
Tyger-Wyger
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Here is some information and photos based on my visit from 1 to 10 September, 2013 in San Diego (or Sandy Eggo if you prefer). I was really there to visit friends but because of different things that were going on with them I ended up spending most of my time riding trams and buses which is no bad thing. I've also done a lot of research on the SDMTS and its fleet and have included it here.

First, the official SDMTS website: http://www.sdmts.com/

The name 'Trolley' is sooooooo 1890's and it's really a bad fit for today's modern system. 'Streetcar' is 1930's as in PCC. Maybe they should call it the 'Tram' or invent a new term that's fairly accurate and agreeable to most. The term of 'Light Rail' doesn't even fit given that part of the network is based on a former 'heavy' rail system and the S70's are far too sophisticated to be described as 'light'. The same applies to the Sprinter out at Oceanside. The local railway where I live is in the process of receiving 305 new Siemens Desiro (closely related to the Sprinters discussed here) EMU's for mainline work that will replace a lot of 50 year old units in local and regional services. I'll be adding photos of the ones here in the future.


A few observations and then the photos.


The trams are run like a real railroad as far as operating rules go. This is another reason why 'trolley' and 'light rail' aren't good fits. Also, part of the system is used by freight trains after the trams stop at night so it's built to 'heavy' rail standards.

You can see out the front of all of the different tram models, at least to some extent. This is great for railfans. The 3000's are the best, the 4000's are similar but the seats face the wrong direction, The 1000's are OK and the 2000's are the worst but still acceptable.

The entire MTS system seems to be fan-friendly.

A senior (you must be at least 60) pass lets you roam the entire MTS system all you like for only USD 18 or $18.00 for an entire month. A normal day pass is $5.00 so the senior pass more than pays for itself if you will be in SD for at least four days. You can get passes and tickets at any Albertsons Supermarket or at the Transit Store downtown near the Civic Center Tram station. All you need is proof of age or disability. What you'll end up with is called a Compass Card, which is a 'touch and ride' electronic pass. They have no personal data on or in them and there's no obligation to keep reloading it. You can also get other add-ons like the Coaster and Sprinter trains plus the Breeze and Flex buses in the northern part of SD County if you need them. Cards are transferable but do not give an SDM (Senior-Disabled-Medicare) card to someone who can not show eligibility to use it. Please remember to 're-touch' your card each time you change vehicle or direction. Touch points at stations are both free-standing and integrated into the ticket machines but are not to be found in the trams even if every bus on the system has one. Compass Cards carry a one-time fee of $2.00 when purchased but there are no other fees related to the card itself. I think MTS wants to get out of printing paper tickets in the future and they expect the Compass Card to be the only form of payment in a few more years. Ticket machines in tram stations and on buses only sell single tickets and day tickets. Tickets bought from one of the machines are only valid on the day of purchase until the end of service. One way tickets are USD 2.50 and round trip/return tickets are USD 5.00 but they are good for unlimited travel for the entire day. Be aware there are no free transfers between buses and trams or vice-versa if you have a one way ticket.




What follows are quick rundowns on the trams and buses and then no less than (count them) 638 photos.



TRAMS:


There are 4 different types. The first is the Düwag-Siemens U-2 from the 80's. They are numbered in the 1000's. Next up are the Siemens S100 cars from the mid-90's. They are numbered in the 2000's. Following those are a short batch of Siemens S70's from the mid-2000's, numbered in the 3000's. Finally come the newest Siemens S70's in the 4000 series, all of which have been delivered. All types are air conditioned and have handicapped access. The first 24 U-2's were bought without airco and had it fitted later. U-2's and S100's require the driver to operate the wheelchair lifts while the passengers do it themselves on both types of the S70's. All types operate on 600 volts, DC. The garage/workshop/depot is located next to the 12th & Imperial (hereafter 12 & I) Transit Center. Blue Line trains go right through this complex and there's usually plenty to see unless it's rush hour when most equipment is out working. Coaster sets and San Diego & Imperial Valley locomotives are also visible nearby at different times. All sets were built by Siemens with at least the S70's being assembled near Sacramento, California in the town of Florin. Electrical equipment for at least the S70's came from another Siemens plant in Georgia. By the way, I'm quite pleased to say that I was able to ride in 1013, 2013 (Tram of the Year) and 4013 plus 4019 during my visit. As there are only 11 sets in the 3000 series it was mathematically impossible to ride 3013 for some reason. If that wasn't enough, my first bus ride in San Diego was in 6013 on line 855 from the Spring Valley Post Office (at the corner of Sweetwater Springs Blvd. and Austin Dr.) to the Spring Street tram station.




U-2's, originally numbered 1001-1071. These 2 car sets are the original vehicles that opened the system in the 80's. They were delivered in several batches over time as the Blue Line was extended from downtown SD to the Mexican border in stages. Deliveries were as follows: 1001-1014 in 1980, 1015-1024 in 1983, 1025-1030 in 1986, 1031-1050 in 1990 and 1051-1071 in 1992. 11 were sold to Mendoza in Argentina during 2011 and 2012 to get their system started and 28 more should be joining them in the future. I rather like the U-2's because they look like buses on rails. U-2's are normally limited to the Blue Line these days but have worked on all lines in the past. They tend to work only in the peak hours when frequencies are doubled from each 15 minutes to each seven or eight minutes. One time I did see a U-2 running together with an S100 but I don't remember the details. The 28 mentioned earlier are programed to go to Mendoza when the next batch of S70's arrive (2017-2018 for the northern extension of the Blue Line?) with the rest being retained for Blue Line rush hour back up.

OK, thanks to a reply to my query on this subject, SDMTS has told me that the following U2's went to Mendoza:

1027+28 (2)

1055+58 (2)

1065-66-67-68-69-70-71 (7)


TOTAL: (11)

SDMTS mentioned that all of them were renumbered in Mendoza. That explains why I saw some low numbered examples on videos from down there yet had ridden and/or photographed the 'same' ones in San Diego during my visit there. If all were renumbered, the numbers would to from 1001 to 1011. The following batch would be from 1012 to 1035 when it arrives. I have duplicated this information in a separate post below for those not wanting to wade through this rather long one just for this little bit of information.


The inverse of the above information gives you the current U-2 fleet situation:

1001-17, 1019-26, 1029-54, 1056-57, 1059-64: Total 57 units out of the original 71.

28 more units are expected to go to Mendoza, Argentina now that all of the 4000's (4001-57) in the most recent order are delivered. If, as before, they pull (mostly) from the top then everything from 1035 and up will go. That will leave 1001-17, 1019-26 and 1029-1034 for a total of 31 in San Diego to work rush hour trains on the Blue Line until they are finally replaced. It may seem odd to hold on to the oldest examples for continued use but the newer versions should have a higher resale value. From what I've heard, these units have departed and are now in their new home. 4 of them are going to be used for spare parts to keep the others running. That would give a total of 35 working in Mendoza. Please contact me with a PM if you know which ones went to Mendoza this time.

1018 is missing because it went to the Western Railway Museum near Rio Vista, CA on 17 March, 2014.



S100's, numbered 2001-2052. These two car sets are a little more technically up to date than the U-2's but not especially attractive. I wonder how closely related they are to the TW6000 series S-Bahn trainsets (trams) in Hannover, Germany as they look quite similar and are also Düwag-Siemens products. Doors, windows and interiors on the S100's are more or less identical to the U2's and the largest visible difference between them seems to be the driver's cab and the ends, tapered on the S100's. These make up most of the Blue Line service outside the peaks. They are also seen as center sets, inserted between 4000 sets on at least the Orange Line or as full sets in the same place. In one case, an outbound Orange train I was riding on dropped the lead 4000 unit, the one I was in at the time, when it arrived at 12 & I because the peak was over. That left the S100 on the point up to El Cajon and I rode in it as far as Spring Street, where my rental car was parked. S100's have run in multiple with all other SDMTS types, most often these days with the 4000 series of S70's. Interestingly enough, the original order for the S100's was for 50 units delivered between 1994 and 1996. Two more were ordered for delivery in 1999 bringing the fleet up to its current strength of 52.




Early S70's, numbered 3001-3011. This was a short test batch of 11 sets of 3 cars that arrived in 2005. They were generations ahead of the two older models in every way possible. They also had a very different and modern look to them which is very Germanic. Both series of S70's are double articulated with a short center section being located between the two ends. The 3000's are a little longer than the 4000's. The biggest visible difference between them is the much larger side windows for the drivers' cabs. The windows between the two sets of doors in each extremity are also wider or longer if you prefer. There's also an extra (compared to the 4000's) narrow window between the doors and the end of the body at the articulation joint. The 3000's have a larger cab and a different driver's desk to the 4000's. The 3000's have three inward-facing seats between the door sets (where the longer windows are located) on each side rather than the two seats in this area on the 4000's. They also have another inward facing seat just before the articulation joint in the end units. The extra length also gives more room for standing passengers. Seats in the raised section behind the cabs face forward in the 3000's (woohoo!!!) and backward in the 4000's (hiss!!!). The 3000's are normally limited to the Green Line where they run as trains of three sets. Given that only 11 are on the property, there are only three trains of three sets available plus two spare units which could make up a train of two sets. Looking at these and photos of S70's and Avantos running for other operators, I think that Siemens is more than willing to change the look/style of the endcaps (driver's cabs) to suit the customers' wishes. They are likely fiberglass assemblies that are easy to make and don't require a lot of expensive tooling to fabricate. The rest of the units (doors, windows, center sections...) seem to be identical no matter where they are. I also expect to personally photograph the Avantos running in Mulhouse, France (I've already done most of the Paris units) sometime in the future as I'm not that far away. When that happens, I'll put a link to them on here just below the existing link to the Paris sets.



Late S70's, numbered 4001-4057. These 3 car sets were delivered during 2012 and 2013 and are quite similar to the Early S70's but are shorter. The driver's side windows are smaller as are the cabs. The shorter length means the leading and trailing doors of a train of three sets will not extend beyond the station platforms, which is a supposedly a small problem for the early S70 sets. Next time I'm in SD I will check this personally. They run most of the services on the Orange and Green Lines. There is talk that more of these will be purchased in the future. More will be needed to replace the next batch of U-2 retirees (28 sets projected to go) and more again for the Blue Line's northern extension due to open (for the moment) during 2017 or 2018. It is not known at this point if these vehicles will be numbered from 4058 and higher or if they will become a new (4100?, 5000?) series. Interestingly enough, the shorter cab side windows give the 4000's sort of a resemblance to a single tram and trailer set the German firm Credé (closed down in 1967) made for Üstra, the city and regional transport operator in the German city of Hannover in 1938. Did Siemens realize this or was it just something that happened by chance? You can see a line drawing of the Hannover set by scrolling down after the link opens: http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/fore....php?5,6237393



S70's also run in:

USA

Houston, TX, two orders for 37 total starting in 2004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail


Portland, OR, one order for 22 starting in 2007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAX_Light_Rail


Charlotte, NC, one order for 20 starting in 2007

http://www.railfanguides.us/nc/lynx/


Norfolk, VA, one order for 9 starting in 2009

http://www.railfanguides.us/va/tide/index.htm


Atlanta, GA, one order of 4 starting in 2011. System opens in 2014.

http://www.decaturmetro.com/tag/atlanta-streetcar/


Salt Lake City region, UT, one order for 77 with options for up to 180 more starting in 2011. They also have S100's.

http://www.railfanguides.us/ut/saltl.../uta/index.htm


Minneapolis-Saint Paul area, MN, one order of 41 with an option for 58 more starting in 2012

http://www.railfanguides.us/mn/hiawatha/index.htm


That's a total of 278 firm orders plus 238 options for a grand total of 516 if all options are taken.

All dates are order dates and not service entry dates except for San Diego and France.


FRANCE

In France the S70 is called the Avanto. They are set up to run on both 750 volts DC for the urban tramway network and 25,000 volts, 50 Hz AC to run on the French Railways (SNCF) mainline. The driver manually does the changeover by dropping the pantograph, moving a switch on his/her desk, and raising the pantograph after passing a sign that says it's safe to do so. The Paris sets do not need but also have this feature as they run exclusively on 25,000 volts, 50 Hz AC. The other major operational difference between the Avantos and their American sisters is that the Avantos in the Paris area can run at 100 KmH or 62 MPH compared to the 88 KmH or 55 MPH of the American versions.

Paris Line T4, one order of 15 starting in 2006. You can see thirteen of the fifteen in the photo section, below.

I have ridden both the main (Bondy) part of Tram Line T4 and the isolated (Esbly) section which is rather distant to the main part. On the Esbly section only one tram-train unit holds down the service for the entire day. I have ridden from end to end and back on both sections. The main part entered service late in 2006 and the isolated section in 2011. The Bondy section was a rebuilt and double tracked remake of a previous line that was single track from Gargan, the most important station along the line other than the endpoints, to Aulnay. The Esbly section was always single track. It had an infrequent heavy rail service using RIB (Rame Inox Banlieu or Stainless Suburban Stock) coaches and BB17000 locomotives. Now it has an hourly service each direction with connections at Esbly for central Paris and other points. Both ends of the Bondy section have connections to different lines of the RER suburban rail network. In spite of the rebuilding, the Bondy section does not have gates at road crossings which can make for delays to the trams and increases the risk of accidents. There is a system of signal lights in place at all crossings but the trams oftern have to stop and wait for the flashing red lights start flashing for the road vechiles. The Esbly section had gates in the past and has retained them. By contrast there are gates at every crossing in San Diego except for the street running from Commercial Street to Santa Fe Depot. It takes 10 of the fifteen trams to do the daily service on both lines during the summer. During the rest of the year this may increase in the peak hours. Normal headway is 15 minutes on the Bondy-Aulnay section and 60 minutes on the Esbly-Crécy section.

To get to the T4, take the RER E train with headcode COHI from the Gare du Nord (actually the underground Magenta RER station) in central Paris to Bondy. To get to the other section from Bondy, take the train to Chelles-Gournay (the same one you arrived on), transfer to the P train to Meaux and get off at Esbly.To get to Esbly from the Gare du Nord, take the P train from the RER tracks (usually Track 21). Either way, on arriving at Esbly walk over the pedestrian bridge towards the station building and you'll see where to go from there. The cheapest way to do this is with a Mobilis unlimited travel card. Buy three zones for Bondy, four zones for Aulnay (other end of T4) or five zones for the entire system including Crécy. The five zone card costs 16.10 euros for one day for unlimited travel on all buses, trams, métros (subways/undergrounds) and suburban trains in the greater Paris network. You can buy these cards from a Métro kiosk or a vending machine. If you'e in Paris for several days, get a new card each day or see if a multi-day Paris Visite card is a better deal. For detailed trip info in Paris, go to www.transilien.com . In the upper right corner, click on English. Enter your origin and destination plus the travel date and time and you'll get everything figured out for you down to the minute. It's super easy, even in French.

Mulhouse-Thann, one order of 12 starting in 2010. This is an 'interurban' service from downtown Mulhouse (don't miss the railway and automobile museums!) to Thann in the far suburbs with an further extension planned for (much) later. Mulhouse is near to Colmar, one of my favorite vacation spots so sooner or later I'll get down there to photograph and ride the system.

UPDATE: 31 July 14. I had a short visit in the cab of TT 13 thanks to a friendly driver. He asked me not to take photos which I respected. These sets have a hand control to the driver's left for acceleration and braking as on the San Diego fleet. The cab is little larger than that of the late S-70's (4000 series) in SD, something that drivers are not happy about, but the Avanto units have an additional electrical cabinet on the driver's left to deal with the extras required for the dual voltage system. The Avantos also have sand boxes located on the floor under the seats just behind each cab on both sides. They have a sight glass to show when filling is needed. I was able to find TT 01 this trip so I'm still missing TT 05 for photos. As myself and many other Picasa users are having problems with that photo hosting site, it may be a while before I can post them on here or maybe find another site with similar features and ease of use.


This just in from the newsroom...

The SNCF (French Railways)'s tram-train service from Mulhouse to Thann was voted Europe's best regional service for 2013! Here's a copy of the citation:

"European Regional Operator of the Year was SNCF for its Mulhouse tram-train. It is the first of its kind in France providing seamless commuter travel options for accessing the city, as well as providing intermodal connections with other urban and regional modes. Its pricing offers a 70% reduction on car travel. The project was complex but its passenger forecasts have been far exceeded."

Here's the link to the entire award site of the European Rail Congress for the 2013 awards:

http://www.europeanrailcongress.com/...ngress-awards/



Back to San Diego...


PCC's, numbered 529-534. San Diego was one of the first properties to order PCC cars in 1936 when they originally came out. The original batch arrived in 1937 and was numbered 501-525. Those 25 cars weren't quite enough to equip the three busiest lines so three more were ordered a little later; 526-527-528. The first generation PCC's (San Diego's included) were later known as the 'prewar' type as a changed body design, called 'postwar', emerged in 1945. Today's SDMTS PCC's arrivals took up the numbering where the originals stopped so 529 isn't a random number. Unlike the original SD PCC's which used compressed air for the friction brakes and the doors, the later ones are postwar all-electric versions with a somewhat different look. These started working in St. Louis and migrated to Los Angeles. 529 re-entered service in late 2012 after six years and 4500 man-hours of work and over $800,000 of money and services donated by individuals and corporations. It runs on the Silver Line every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday in the middle of the day. It's a historic/nostalgic/tourist service but does in fact serve a transit purpose by circling downtown on operating days. It does not require any new or unique track. It starts at 12 & I and takes the Green Line for the first three stations. Then it turns off to enter the America Plaza station on the Orange and Blue Lines for the return to 12 & I. One of the other PCC's is being restored for the benefit of the San Diego Electric Railway Museum. The others may well go into daily service later on should the new streetcar line to Balboa Park and the world famous San Diego Zoo be approved and built. Here's the official website for the restoration of the SD PCC's: http://www.sdvintagetrolley.com/index.aspx Here's the link to the San Diego Electric Railway Association:http://www.sdera.org/




BUSES


All large buses seen were from New Flyer and NABI, both older and present versions. There were a few articulateds on the street in both versions but not many. The newest artics numbered in the 1000 series are made by NABI but NABI is owned by New Flyer. Of note was the fact that at least four different color schemes are all in current use. The older buses were in the three older schemes while the newer ones plus the last of the older ones in various series were in the latest red and white. The older buses look like large shoeboxes and have no personality or passenger/fan appeal whatsoever, including on the inside. Someone must have mentioned this to New Flyer and they came out with a unique new design that I think is rather too unique. All the same, it's better than the older ones. For those that don't know, New Flyer is the largest transit bus producer in Canada and the USA. Oddly enough, there were no Gillig (Number 2 in the USA and spelled the same frontwards and backwards) buses to be seen in spite of the fact they are California products. There are also some midibuses built on Chevrolet truck chassis. Bus routes have gone from connecting the suburbs to the center to connecting the suburbs to the tram service to the greatest possible extent as that has expanded over the years. Number series used by the buses: 300-400-500-600-700-800-1000-1100-1200 (allocated but empty at the moment)-1600-1800-1900-2700-2800-2900-3400-6000-7200-7300-8100. The Chevrolet midibuses were in the 3400 series. The 1000 series and 1900 series are for now the only articulated buses but they will soon be joined by the 1100 and 1200 series. A link to the SDMTS bus fleet is here: http://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php?title...Transit_System I have noticed this list is not 100% correct because at least the 3400 series and the 6000 series are missing. The 6000's are the same as the 8100's (plus others) and it's possible that other series or groups are missing as well. If you look at the photos, you'll see 6007 and 6013 so the 6000's are not something I dreamed up. Also, the list doesn't mention that buses within the same series are in different colors as are 6007 and 6013, only a few digits apart. The 800 series, 1100 series and 1200 series are new buses from Gillig (only the 800's) and New Flyer that have recently started arriving in San Diego. If all buses in these orders plus the options are taken, the following series are expected to be quickly retired: 1600-1800-1900-6000-8100 along with any 2200 and 2500 that may still be around. The next batch of Gilligs may well be in the 900 series and go upward from there but there has not been any announcement on this yet. Incidently, the buses now being delivered are in a different livrey than before. They are still red and white but the distribution of the colors is rather different.




PHOTOS:

I use Picasa to store my photos. If you've never used it before, click on the link for an album and wait for it to open. Then click on the photo in the upper left corner to enlarge it. Once open, you'll find arrows on each side of the photos and you can use them to move in either direction through the album. Although there are mostly transport photos here there are also some of tourist interest. Please bear with them or even enjoy them. You may also note that I'm a fan of the numbers 13 and 19 and this is sometimes reflected in the photos. Also, if you wish to comment on any particular photo, please do it on here and not directly on Picasa.




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CJKBxLzh3eyrWA




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CP20zL3WqeurHw




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...Lfa9pz6_NOG2wE




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CPPR6vvow5zkEA




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CLeqlpvKye3VHw




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CInOlJ_HxNmWHQ




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...CNbHlu2n8pX8Yg




For the Avantos in the Paris suburbs between Bondy and Aulnay-sous-Bois, look here:




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...ITf-c3J79yJ7QE


TT 01 is here and not in the other albums:

/home/joe/Desktop/TT 01.JPG



Here is a look at the Esbly-Crécy line plus more of Bondy-Aulnay sous Bois. I will come back later on in better weather conditionsto reshoot Esbly-Crécy:




https://picasaweb.google.com/1180251...M-n8ce21fKJ-wE




So far I have posted photos of 13 of the 15 Avantos in the Paris area. I'll post the others (TT01 and TT05) when I have them plus the Mulhouse-Thann line later on.





Please feel free to send me additional information with a Personal Message through this site.




That's all for now. Enjoy and check back for updates from time to time.




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Old September 16th, 2013, 05:29 AM   #82
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Old September 16th, 2013, 02:07 PM   #83
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Great post Tyger-Wyger...with excellent photos. I lived in SD from 1977 to 2004. I do miss that city.

Quote:
The name 'Trolley' is sooooooo 1890's and it's really a bad fit for the modern San Diego system of today. 'Streetcar' is 1930's as in PCC. Maybe they should call it the 'Tram' or invent a new term that's agreeable to most. 'Light Rail' doesn't even fit given that a lot of the network is based on a former 'heavy' rail system and the newer (3000 & 4000 S 70's) are far too sophisticated to be described as 'light'. The same applies to the Sprinter out at Oceanside. The local railway where I live is in the process of receiving 305 new Desiro EMU's for mainline work that will replace a lot of 50 year old units in local and regional services.
The name San Diego Trolley is just that.. a name. The name Tijuana Trolley was used during construction..but..

Quote:
With the purchase of part of the SD&AE right-of-way and approval by the San Diego City Council and other agencies, work began in 1979 on the South Line linking San Diego and the border. Mayor Pete Wilson drove the official golden spike on June 4, 1980 to dedicate the first section of track in downtown San Diego. After a week-long celebration, the first train bound for San Ysidro started at 5:00 a.m. on July 26, 1981. Dubbed the "Tijuana Trolley" by many, the name for the entire system became the "San Diego Trolley," despite opposition from James Mills who called it a "dumb name."
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journ...er/trolley.htm
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Old September 16th, 2013, 08:12 PM   #84
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Thanks for the reply, bd popeye. By chance, do you know exactly which U2's went to Argentina?


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Old September 17th, 2013, 01:54 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Tyger-Wyger View Post
Thanks for the reply, bd popeye. By chance, do you know exactly which U2's went to Argentina?


T-W
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Thank you ..and..

Nope. I'm no train spotter. but I do remember reading about that some time ago..

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/traffic/t...gentina--.html

Quote:
After nearly three decades and more than 2-million miles of service, San Diego is saying goodbye to a few well-used trolleys.

The trolleys have been here since the San Diego Trolley was developed in the early 1980s. Now, they will be part of Argentina's newest light rail project in the city of Mendoza.

"We're very excited that we've had wonderful use. These cars have served our region well for 30 years," said Wayne Terry, Chief Operating Officer of MTS Rail.

After being loaded onto trucks, the trolleys head off to Houston where they will be loaded onto a ship bound for Buenos Aires.

"Very excited that the province of Mendoza Argentina, that they're going to get a second life there and the citizens of Mendoza are going to enjoy their services as well," said Terry.

A total of 11 trolleys were sold for $3.3 million.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/traffic/t...#ixzz2f6RG9l00
and..full article in the link.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/...ife-argentina/

Quote:
There is life after San Diego: Definitely for four of the Metropolitan Transit System's hard-working red trolleys.

The quartet was retired after each car racked up nearly 30 years of service, carried 2 million passengers and traveled 9 million miles. The trolleys were sold last year to the transit system in Mendoza, Argentina, which is building a light-rail transit system.

In September 2010, the Provincial Government of Mendoza signed a contract to purchase 11 trolleys for $3.3 million. The older vehicles are being replaced in San Diego. MTS has purchased 57 low-floor light-rail vehicles from Siemens. They will start arriving this summer.

The purchase is part of the $650 million Trolley Renewal Project, which is overhauling the original Blue Line and Orange Line, and will result in a single standard across the system for all trolley cars.

The retired trolleys were shipped to Argentina in January after being disassembled into two pieces and wrapped in plastic. They traveled by truck to Houston, by boat to Buenos Aires, and by truck again to Mendoza.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 03:42 AM   #86
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Thanks again for the info. I know from photos that 1028-1055-1070 are now in the southern hemisphere. This is the first I knew about 1070. I did notice that some 1050's, most of the 1060's and 1070 and 1071 were missing, the last ones built. There were also some others I missed but I was trying to keep up with the entire rail fleet over a short time and some likely slipped by while I was watching others or were in for servicing. 1003 failed at Barrio Logan Station thus cutting my first ride on a U2 somewhat short as I boarded at 12 & I. I was rather surprised that they didn't sell the oldest ones first.


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Old September 17th, 2013, 04:29 AM   #87
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You sound like a train spotter!.. We all gotta do something!

Quote:
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Thank you for your service to our nation!
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Old September 17th, 2013, 08:16 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
You sound like a train spotter!.. We all gotta do something!



Thank you for your service to our nation!

Train spotter, bus spotter, tram spotter, etc.

The best thing about being a train spotter in San Diego is that you normally don't need an anorak.

Also into jazz from the 20's-30's-40's, photography, 50's-60's US cars, books by Georges Simenon and all kinds of other stuff.

And thank you as well for your service! I was serving as an Army civilian but that ended on 13 January, 2014 when I really retired.


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Last edited by Tyger-Wyger; January 13th, 2014 at 09:06 AM.
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Old September 17th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger-Wyger View Post
Train spotter, bus spotter, tram spotter, etc.

Also into jazz from the 20's-30's-40's, photography, 50's-60's US cars, books by Georges Simenon and all kinds of other stuff.

And thank you as well for your service! I still serve as an Army civilian but that ends in two more years when I really retire.


T-W
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Thank you!

I love American cars from '46 to '69. Having spent about 25% of my time growing up in New York City I love the subway and any type of railed public transportation.

The last three years I lived in San Diego I rode the trolley to work almost daily. My place of employment was just a block away from a trolley station.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 02:20 PM   #90
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As SDMTS gets the other PCC's it has restored I'd love to see them get names. Not just any old names but the names of the people who made the biggest contributions to the development of the PCC, those that designed it, tested it and kept it running. This is quite a story but there were five key players. They were:

Thomas Conway Jr., Chairman of the Electric Railways Presidents' Conference Committee

Clarence Hirschfeld, Chief Engineer until he died in 1939

Emil Piron, Hirschfeld's deputy and Chief Engineer from 1939 until he died in 1950. He also got PCC's started in Europe in a big way after WW2 ended.

William Rossell, Chairman of the Special Advisory Committe to the Chief Engineer

John Hession, Architectual Engineer largely responsible for the PCC's 'look'


Anyone have any comments about this idea? I'd like to present it to SDMTS and see what happens.


UPDATE: I got no comments about this on here so I sent it to SDMTS. They may be using it in the future.

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Last edited by Tyger-Wyger; October 2nd, 2013 at 01:59 AM.
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Old September 20th, 2013, 02:30 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
Thank you!

I love American cars from '46 to '69. Having spent about 25% of my time growing up in New York City I love the subway and any type of railed public transportation.

The last three years I lived in San Diego I rode the trolley to work almost daily. My place of employment was just a block away from a trolley station.
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My favorite American cars from that era were the 1958 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser (Station Wagon, Hardtop and Convertible, can't choose between them and all with the 400 HP version of the 430 engine), 1958-63 Thunderbirds, 1961-65 Lincolns, and the 1964 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt 427 SOHC. Guess that makes me a Ford guy but my first automotive love is Alfa Romeo from the 60's to the 80's.

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Old September 21st, 2013, 06:40 PM   #92
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SDMTS is soliciting input on their planned rapid bus routes. Here's an image of the routes.

http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/rapidproposals.asp

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Old September 22nd, 2013, 09:19 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embora View Post
SDMTS is soliciting input on their planned rapid bus routes. Here's an image of the routes.

http://www.sdmts.com/MTS/rapidproposals.asp

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Looks interesting. I need to try to match that with a local map to better understand what's going on.
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Last edited by Tyger-Wyger; October 2nd, 2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 12:44 AM   #94
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So this information doesn't get lost in my long post above, the following SDMTS U-2's went to Mendoza in Argentina:

1027+28 (2)

1055+58 (2)

1065-66-67-68-69-70-71 (7)


TOTAL: (11)

This info is directly from SDMTS. They mentioned that all of them were renumbered in Mendoza. That explains why I saw some low numbered examples on videos from down there yet had ridden and/or photographed the 'same' ones in San Diego last month. If all were renumbered, the numbers would go from 1001 to 1011. The next batch would be from 1012 to 1039 when they arrive.


The inverse of the above information gives you the current U-2 fleet situation:

1001-17 1019-26, 1029-54, 1056-57, 1059-64: Total 60 units out of the original 71.

1018 is missing because it now belongs to the Western Railway Museum near Rio Vista, California.

28 more units are expected to go to Mendoza, Argentina now that all of the 4000's in the most recent order have been delivered. If, as before, they (mostly) pull from the top then everything from 1035 and higher will go. That will leave 1001-17, 1019-26 and 1029-1034 for a total of 31 in San Diego to work rush hour trains on the Blue Line until they are finally replaced. It may seem odd to hold on to the oldest examples for continued use but the newer versions should have a higher resale value. I have heard that the 28 units have already arrived in Mendoza but I do not know which individual units went. Please send me a PM if you have this info.




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Old October 19th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #95
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This is my third attempt at this simple post...

Here are links to the other public transport providers in the San Diego area. First up are the operators in the northern end of San Diego County; Coaster and Sprinter Trains plus Breeze and Flex buses. Next up is the San Diego and Imperial Valley Railroad. That's a private company that doesn't provide public transport but if you look at their route map you'll also see much of the SDMTS trolley network. Finally comes Amtrak California.

Here are the operations in the northern part of San Diego County:

http://www.gonctd.com/coaster

Now comes the SD & IV Railroad:

http://www.gwrr.com/operations/railr...alley_railroad

And finally Amtrak California brings up the rear of this train:

http://www.amtrakcalifornia.com/


Enjoy your trip!


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Last edited by Tyger-Wyger; November 3rd, 2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #96
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On the 5th March, FTA announced list of 32 favorable transit projects for funding for 2015. Region's favored matched in red:

image hosted on flickr

image by dimlys46, on Flickr
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Old March 25th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #97
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Amazing video

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Old April 19th, 2014, 09:47 AM   #98
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=542

San Diego and Tijuana plan cross-border LRT
Monday, April 14, 2014



MUNICIPAL authorities in San Diego, California, and the neighbouring city of Tijuana in the Mexican state of Baja California have revived plans for a light rail line spanning the US-Mexican border.

San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce president Mr Jerry Sanders told local media: "That's one of our top priorities. It's very complex, obviously, when you have two governments, two state governments, two city governments, and MTS [Metropolitan Transit System]. But I think it can be done."

There are also complications involving the use of the infrastructure by freight trains. In December 2012 MTS leased a portion of the route to short line Pacific Imperial Railroad, which could make separation of freight and light rail operations a necessity to comply with US federal safety requirements.

However, Sanders says business leaders and political officials in both countries are actively urging theestablishment of cross-border light rail services, noting that the San Diego – Baja railway was also among the top concerns discussed during a recent trade trip to Mexico City sponsored by the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce.

"We're seeing more companies wanting to come here and work on both sides of the border, but the railway is a really an important issue for almost all of them," Sanders says. "Freight issues are helping to drive the process, but LRT is a significant factor as well."

MTS began operating its light rail South Line (now the Blue Line), the United States' first modern light rail line, in July 1981. The line links the city centre with San Ysidro, just short of the US-Mexican frontier.
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Old April 28th, 2014, 06:26 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger-Wyger View Post
So this information doesn't get lost in my long post above, the following SDMTS U-2's went to Mendoza in Argentina:

1027+28 (2)

1055+58 (2)

1065-66-67-68-69-70-71 (7)


TOTAL: (11)

This info is directly from SDMTS. They mentioned that all of them were renumbered in Mendoza. That explains why I saw some low numbered examples on videos from down there yet had ridden and/or photographed the 'same' ones in San Diego last month. If all were renumbered, the numbers would go from 1001 to 1011. The next batch would be from 1012 to 1039 when they arrive.


The inverse of the above information gives you the current U-2 fleet situation:

1001-26, 1029-54, 1056-57, 1059-64: Total 60 units out of the original 71.

28 more units are expected to go to Mendoza, Argentina after the next batch of 4000's are delivered. If, as before, they (mostly) pull from the top then everything from 1035 and higher will go. That will leave 1001-26 and 1029-1034 for a total of 32 in San Diego to work rush hour trains on the Blue Line until they are finally replaced. It may seem odd to hold on to the oldest examples for continued use but the newer versions should have a higher resale value.


T-W
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Hello. I am new to the forum. I live in New York, but my brother lives in San Diego so I know the city and the wonderful SDMTS. My special interest is Latin America and I am trying to follow developments in Mendoza. Railfans there have a SSC forum at
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...560704&page=32

Lots of photos and videos. Not much information. Today an Argentine reported that 24 more SDMTS units will leave Houston next May 4 and arrive in Mendoza on May 27. He posts a picture showing 1056 on a truck in either San Diego or Houston.

I am fascinated by your information, which is the best I've found anywhere, and which answers some of my questions. But I have another one. Nobody in Argentina cares about fleet numbers. Can you or anyone tell me if the 24 announced today are part of the 28 planned to go last year? Did those 28 go? Mendoza newspapers reported the purchase, but never reported if the vehicles arrived.

The only vehicles I am sure of in Mendoza are the following eleven which arrived in 2011: 1013, 1014, 1027, 1028, 1055, 1065, 1066 and 1068-1071.

Any further information that you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Allen Morrison ("almo")
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Old April 29th, 2014, 01:10 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almo View Post
Hello. I am new to the forum. I live in New York, but my brother lives in San Diego so I know the city and the wonderful SDMTS. My special interest is Latin America and I am trying to follow developments in Mendoza. Railfans there have a SSC forum at
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...560704&page=32

Lots of photos and videos. Not much information. Today an Argentine reported that 24 more SDMTS units will leave Houston next May 4 and arrive in Mendoza on May 27. He posts a picture showing 1056 on a truck in either San Diego or Houston.

I am fascinated by your information, which is the best I've found anywhere, and which answers some of my questions. But I have another one. Nobody in Argentina cares about fleet numbers. Can you or anyone tell me if the 24 announced today are part of the 28 planned to go last year? Did those 28 go? Mendoza newspapers reported the purchase, but never reported if the vehicles arrived.

The only vehicles I am sure of in Mendoza are the following eleven which arrived in 2011: 1013, 1014, 1027, 1028, 1055, 1065, 1066 and 1068-1071.

Any further information that you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Allen Morrison ("almo")
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Thanks, Almo

If you went through my photos you would have seen 1013 in San Diego in 2013. I rode her and she was wearing a white wrap for Honest brand tea. I have a thing about the number 13 and was not going to let 1013, 2013 or 4013 pass without being ridden. 1014 was also in SD last year and like her sister she was wearing a wrap for something or other. Again, check my photo links and you will most likely see her.

As far as I know, the 24 you mentioned are part of the 28 mentioned previously and I've heard nothing about another batch going to Mendoza. Last info I had, the SDMTS 4000 series goes from 4001 to 4057. More will be needed to operate the new section of the Blue Line that should be under construction by now.

It could be the quantity was reduced because of financial reasons on the part of the local operator in Mendoza or an extension won't be ready on time. Looking on pages 25 and 26 of the link shows the system is expanding but I could not figure out the date for opening the next section, which is going towards the airport but not all the way at the moment. I saw photos or videos of 1001-02-03-04-05-maybe 08 and 10. Current fleet numbers should go from 1001 to 1011 and you see more by searching on You Tube. With the 24 units in transit, it will go from 1001 to 1035. I have no idea which ex-SDMTS trams are now wearing any given number in Mendoza. If you speak Spanish, perhaps you could ask this on the page you linked to.

What you may want to do is go to the SDMTS website and ask your question there via the 'Contact Us' link on the home page. That will give you the info straight from the horse's mouth and then you can post it on here. That is how I got the list I posted. Expect to wait about a week or more for a reply as this isn't a normal customer service type of question concerning routes, timetables and fares. You may as well also ask for the SDMTS fleet numbers that were included in that sale at the same time.

I live on the other side of the Atlantic from you so I don't get to SD very often. Last September was my first visit and I have no idea when I will return, but I will return.

See you soon!!!


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