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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:25 AM   #2541
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Let's dispel some myths and put the facts on the table about the different political parties..It was under the Labor Government in 2010 that the Education department marked this site for sale and then Labor Infrastructure Minister Stirling Hinchcliffe declared that the Govt had no intent to build a new school on the site.

Quote:
"The [Montague Road] site has never been used as a school and it is not seen as a suitable new school site," Mr Hinchliffe said.

"The current state school provision in the West End area meets current and future resident student numbers," he said.

"The department is not considering additional state school provision in the West End area over the next 20-year period."

He said it was a "matter for the education department" as to why it was selling the Montague Road land.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...201-18gs3.html
Coincidentally in 2010, the BCC under Campbell Newman who attempted to rezone the distance education site for a new school but that was refuted by the then Labor State Govt who stated their plans to sell the site.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...20101128-18ctr
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:35 AM   #2542
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Originally Posted by bribri View Post
The problem is you don't seem to be happy with anything and yet offer no solutions. You want the problem passed on to other suburbs or other people so you are not impacted, classic NIMBY behaviour. You also spend a great deal of time whinging about the LNP and yet the LNP has been in power for a total of 4.5 years in the last 28 years and the ALP has been in power for 23.5 years in that time period. Is your name Mark by any chance?
1. I'm offering a solution. The plan that the community agreed on with council around 20101/11. Total re-development of industrial areas, 8 stories, with infrastruture etc.
2. This would mean a very large increase in population, so yes of course we are impacted, taking a fair share, and no we are not passing on the problems as you claim. Again, mis-use of the term Nimby. Don't call me that again.
3. Read again. Alot of references to mis-planning on both sides of politics. But the LNP did all the damage in a short period of time.
4. No, not Mark
From other comments.
5. This idea of "retrospective" infrastructure is interesting. Does that mean, "build alot of apartments and work the rest out (transport, green space etc.) later". Because that to me means a mess, confusion and uncertaintly for communities and alot of limited options later.
6. There are very widespread concerns in West End, Brisbane, and other cities around Australia of plannning failure (and an aparment glut) due to failure from government, councils and developers and prob the engineers and technical experts. That is, it's not just me or the suburb, but a huge - dare I say it - majority part of the population. Another reason why the Nimby thing is off the mark.
7. The perspectives that you guys have in this forum is very important, becuse it directly impacts on urban development. You can sit around in forums like this in an echo chamber congratulating yoursleves on big buildings, but you also need to hear public opinion. Which, as I'm saying above, is not high of what's happening now, and that something has got to change for the better.
8. I'm not a developer, traffic engineer, demogrpaher etc. so it's hard for me to come up with specific proposals, but do believe in more proportionate distribution of populations in the inner city, and real consultatoin with the community. Rather than what is happening now.
9. I'm not doing this for fun on a Sunday morning. It's not. I'm doing it becasue I care.

Last edited by 4101; March 19th, 2017 at 02:02 AM.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:44 AM   #2543
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That's funny, because I wrote a 3 paragraph comment on how West End State School should be extracting more value from the site then they are currently, and in your first reply to me you dismissed that with a belittling 1 sentence reply and didn't address any of the issues I raised in my comment. So why should I treat you with respect when your comments are also patronising?
OK that was a bit dismissive. It just seems like a cop-out for multiple screw-ups, resulting in kids not actually doing anything on dirt (and sports that require space and dirt). What part WESS are you proposing to build the highrise on?
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Old March 19th, 2017, 01:49 AM   #2544
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Originally Posted by TOCC View Post
Let's dispel some myths and put the facts on the table about the different political parties..
Thanks for the article, I didn't know the details, but did know that ALP had this position, so made sure to say that the poor planning is bi-partisan, including on this site and education. So given this, why did Newman sell the site for development? any information would be appreciated
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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:25 AM   #2545
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Would be interested in what you say about plans to develop Orleigh Park. Any more info?
What plans to develop Orleigh Park? Are you refering to UQ's plan for a green bridge to the University? Which in the plans indicates that this will be built where the current ferry terminal is, so barely impacts the park, of which I'm fully supportive of.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 02:38 AM   #2546
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What plans to develop Orleigh Park? Are you refering to UQ's plan for a green bridge to the University? Which in the plans indicates that this will be built where the current ferry terminal is, so barely impacts the park, of which I'm fully supportive of.
I'm referring to your comment before "Aren't there long term plans to develop the full length of the riverfront into proper parkland?" Does that include the south stretch / Orleigh?

The UQ bridge is proposed to come out near Montague. So yes, will have a big impact on Orleigh. Should be increasing parkland, not decreasing it. there's already been alot of press and social media about this. UQ commision a traffic engineer to put it where they want, and didn;t have the decency to talk to local councilor, member, groups - no one.

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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:03 AM   #2547
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Developing into a park is very very different to developing on a park.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 03:40 AM   #2548
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I'm referring to your comment before "Aren't there long term plans to develop the full length of the riverfront into proper parkland?" Does that include the south stretch / Orleigh?

The UQ bridge is proposed to come out near Montague. So yes, will have a big impact on Orleigh. Should be increasing parkland, not decreasing it. there's already been alot of press and social media about this. UQ commision a traffic engineer to put it where they want, and didn;t have the decency to talk to local councilor, member, groups - no one.
Well I looked at the masterplan that was released by UQ and it was indicated in the plan that it would be built where the current ferry terminal is. (Refer to pages 36 and 38 of the plan - on closer inspection its indicative of being positioned at Morry St. But here's the thing, the plan is "indicative", does not mean its concrete plans. When it comes to Draft Master Plans it highlights what is hoped to achieve and this when there is the opportunity for community consultation based on the indicative plans. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I could not see anywhere on the plan that states exactly where the bridge will be built.)

And I was referring to the stretch of river front from Orleigh Park up to the Go Between Bridge which is currently a mix of carparking, bikelanes and paths. There were plans to make the stretch a more inviting area by removing the carparking, improving access, redesigning the footpaths and bikeways and adding playgrounds, picnic areas and a general beautification of the entire stretch. Orleigh Park is already a park.

Last edited by Garevans; March 19th, 2017 at 04:09 AM.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:00 AM   #2549
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Surely the slow though steady relocation of heavy business in the area (eg Parmalat, Hansen, smash repairs etc) will provide opportunities to address some of these issues. Of course every day without some sort of plan adds cost to the whole debate and I can see where 4101 is frustrated and coming from.

Unfortunately we have three levels of govt in Brisbane that probably cannot spell "plan" and certainly have no concept of strategy!
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:18 AM   #2550
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Thanks for the clarification about which part of Orleigh is to be developed

I looked on the UQ proposal (page 19). It's proposed to land smack in the middle of the south stretch of Orleigh. One and half blocks to the west of the ferry terminal. So would use a heap of very scarce park space.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:26 AM   #2551
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It's part of a masterplan subject to further investigation and approvals by relevant authorities.

Are you saying that an active transport connection at that reach of the river is wrong? Because that's the extent of what the masterplan shows that this is what they're aiming for.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:28 AM   #2552
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....
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:34 AM   #2553
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Consider that the UQ master plan isn't worth much, it's a wish list of infrastructure investment...
And that proposal for the bridge was based on the idea it could integrate into the now defunct Brisbane metro route. I wouldn't read too much into it
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Old March 19th, 2017, 04:34 AM   #2554
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Quote:
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Thanks for the clarification about which part of Orleigh is to be developed

I looked on the UQ proposal (page 19). It's proposed to land smack in the middle of the south stretch of Orleigh. One and half blocks to the west of the ferry terminal. So would use a heap of very scarce park space.
In plans, the arrows are used as an indicator, this instant "access and movement", but does not necessary suggest the exact location of the bridge.

On the St Lucia side, it would suggest the the bridge would run right through the middle of Guyatt Park. On page 37, the location of the St Lucia end is moved to the immediate west of the apartments on Laurence St.

So there are no concrete plans as of yet.
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Old March 19th, 2017, 05:12 AM   #2555
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Do you know what is proposed - a pedestrian /bike bridge, or buses and metro as reported elsewhere? From a planning / traffic perspective, where the best place to put it? According to the press, a bridge has been planned / flagged from UQ to Boundary St since the 1920s, so everyone has expeccted / accepted it. That would seem to be closer access to the city, big developments in South Bris / Melbourne St, and rail. And wouldn't use v scarce park space. Someone on the UQ infrastructure committe said that UQ didn;t choose this option becasue the rowing club didn't want to move. If this is right, that is a better example of NIMBYism. In addition, given the huge costs of a bridge ($, who pays, and loss of green space), what are the benefits? From pretty much any part of West End, it's quick and easy to get to UQ by bus, or ferry. If the interest is in getting apartment residents between Montague and the river to UQ (and the city), another ferry stop on that stretch would be alot cheaper and more attractive and palatable to the community. And quicker. If the bridge takes you to Gyatt Park, it's still a long hike or ferry ride to UQ especially if you have to get to the middle or back of it. The UQ bus and ferry stops are close. Thoughts?
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Old March 19th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #2556
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It will be a pedestrian/bike bridge but they have also stated that they want to be able to integrate it into the public transport system in the future, that is have space for busses in the future. Long term you would have busses/metro running CBD-West End over the bridge, through UQ and across the Eleanor Schonell Bridge toward Boggo Road.

I dont think the location is locked in, and they have done very little in terms of community consultation on the issue, Boundary Road might be a better option if youre talking about the most direct route to the CBD, but in terms of capturing extra cyclists/walkers its relatively close to Eleanor Schonell Bridge and doesnt offer as much value add as the bridge from Wyatt Park.
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Old March 21st, 2017, 06:02 AM   #2557
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The Greens bridge proposal
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/quee...07-gncroe.html
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Old March 21st, 2017, 07:10 AM   #2558
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They are needed as well, except I'd be pushing for them to be metro and not bus.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 12:43 AM   #2559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4101 View Post
Do you know what is proposed - a pedestrian /bike bridge, or buses and metro as reported elsewhere? From a planning / traffic perspective, where the best place to put it? According to the press, a bridge has been planned / flagged from UQ to Boundary St since the 1920s, so everyone has expeccted / accepted it. That would seem to be closer access to the city, big developments in South Bris / Melbourne St, and rail. And wouldn't use v scarce park space. Someone on the UQ infrastructure committe said that UQ didn;t choose this option becasue the rowing club didn't want to move. If this is right, that is a better example of NIMBYism. In addition, given the huge costs of a bridge ($, who pays, and loss of green space), what are the benefits? From pretty much any part of West End, it's quick and easy to get to UQ by bus, or ferry. If the interest is in getting apartment residents between Montague and the river to UQ (and the city), another ferry stop on that stretch would be alot cheaper and more attractive and palatable to the community. And quicker. If the bridge takes you to Gyatt Park, it's still a long hike or ferry ride to UQ especially if you have to get to the middle or back of it. The UQ bus and ferry stops are close. Thoughts?
In my view, if they had the money for it such a stop is a good idea. Others would know better than me about the cost and viability, but as much as City Cat stops are a drag would be a good idea.

Also, please don't take the hot heads on here who get personal and abusive because they can't see it's just opinions, your views I am finding are fine in this debate in this thread. You gave ideas that may not be popular, but that's what they are views. Obviously, things like what you suggest will in some way need to be done. What if they turned Pauls into apartments? More people = need for more transport and other options.
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Old March 22nd, 2017, 05:01 AM   #2560
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They are needed as well, except I'd be pushing for them to be metro and not bus.
Connectivity in both areas needs to be addressed, but I agree busses isn't really the option, it's a short term solution to a long term problem.

Long term I'd like to see a rail crossing in vicinity of where the Bulimba crossing is proposed.. Cannon Hill - Bowen Hills connection .. it would serve to cut off 20mins for those from the bayside suburbs and would provide an inner city loop for high frequency services. It could ultimately serve as the backbone for a spurline to Carindale and could reduce the eastern suburbs dependance on busses.

All very wishful and not high on the priority list, but overcapitalising on a half-assed bus bridge now undermines the chance of this type of infrastructure in the futures
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