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Old September 7th, 2017, 09:14 PM   #801
Major Deegan
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I think that's already being discussed over in Coffee Shop
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Old September 30th, 2017, 08:16 AM   #802
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Just wanted to say that I visited Minneapolis/St. Paul earlier this month and had an awesome time! Did everything from Paisley Park, Mall of America, zoo and museums. Plus I got some cool skyline pics! You have an awesome city!
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Old September 30th, 2017, 05:20 PM   #803
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Just wanted to say that I visited Minneapolis/St. Paul earlier this month and had an awesome time! Did everything from Paisley Park, Mall of America, zoo and museums. Plus I got some cool skyline pics! You have an awesome city!
Post your pictures here!
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 09:50 PM   #804
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Alatus planning residential tower next to Minneapolis Convention Center

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The Minneapolis developer has a purchase agreement for the one-story brick building at 228 S. 12th St., currently owned by the Church of Christ, Scientist. Alatus would demolish the building and construct a tower with apartments or condos, said Chris Osmundson, development director for Alatus. The base of the tower would include retail, a parking structure and a skyway connection to the Convention Center.

Osmundson declined to discuss further details of the project — such as height and number of units — because he wants to first discuss and get feedback from the Downtown Minneapolis Neighborhood Association, whose land use committee is hosting Alatus Tuesday night.
https://www.bizjournals.com/twinciti...r-next-to.html
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 10:22 PM   #805
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Nice location to the Convention Center, easy connection to the skyways. Be nice to add a hotel component to the project and add some height.

Even nicer if they also bought the property that the skyway actually uses and incorporate it as well.
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Old October 2nd, 2017, 10:26 PM   #806
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Speaking of which, the convention center is an eyesore and a dead zone for that part of downtown. I don't properly understand why a convention center has to be one to two floors, spread out over a large area. Why not build a mutli-story convention center, which each floor its own convention room? Then sell off the land that is saved by reducing the current convention center's footprint.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 06:07 AM   #807
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Speaking of which, the convention center is an eyesore and a dead zone for that part of downtown. I don't properly understand why a convention center has to be one to two floors, spread out over a large area. Why not build a mutli-story convention center, which each floor its own convention room? Then sell off the land that is saved by reducing the current convention center's footprint.
No, logistically speaking that be rather challenging. You should see the amount of stuff they sometimes haul in for the shows. Be it boats, cars, or other big items there often is a line of trucks waiting to drop stuff off.

However I do think it is much more realistic to build a convention center like the size ours exist but then build hotel rooms & maybe mixed use like office and apartments above. Topped with underground parking it would be a massive complex but be an outstanding usage of space.

Then again building underground parking would then bring up weight issues so things like the car show or boat show might be harder to do. I know there is underground parking at the convention center but I don't think it's actually under the convention center.

But yea, I do agree it's like haveing a Walmart Center, Home Depot, Super Target, and Menards sized building all squished into one not so walking friendly place..

I mean have you actually tried walking around the damn thing!?!?! Every time I do happen to walk down 16th on the backside of the convention center I always end up cursing myself for not biking it instead.

I would hope in 20-40 years when they want to do a more extensive renovation or rebuild they pick something that is by far a better design for it's space.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 04:12 PM   #808
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No, logistically speaking that be rather challenging. You should see the amount of stuff they sometimes haul in for the shows. Be it boats, cars, or other big items there often is a line of trucks waiting to drop stuff off.
I feel like these are solvable constraints. What percentage of conventions have needs that are so extensive as a boat show? Reserve the ground floor for these events, which should be easily predictable. Build an elevator big enough to lift cars, and then you can put car shows on the upper levels too.

Maybe the costs of building a building with four triple height floors, each having to hold the weight of a convention really is too much. But it's so frustrating to have, as you put it, four big-box store footprints occupying prime downtown real estate. For what? Economic analysis tends to find conventions don't really bring to cities what their boosters say.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:11 PM   #809
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I feel like these are solvable constraints. What percentage of conventions have needs that are so extensive as a boat show? Reserve the ground floor for these events, which should be easily predictable. Build an elevator big enough to lift cars, and then you can put car shows on the upper levels too.
You really have no clue what youre suggesting or even talking about. In my line of work we take machinery to convention halls such as these and in many cases have machines that have weigh in the tons and take up floor space in the hundreds of square feet. logistics of bringing that stuff in and out of a 3rd floor convention space would logistically be a nightmare, and the cost of "elevators" to accomplish all of this would be absurd. Not to mention the time constraints, did you think about how much time it takes to clear out a convention hall? Theres a reason every major convention hall in the country has a large ground level. Minneapolis would simply just get passed over by many shows if they did what your suggesting.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:36 PM   #810
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You really have no clue what youre suggesting or even talking about. In my line of work we take machinery to convention halls such as these and in many cases have machines that have weigh in the tons and take up floor space in the hundreds of square feet. logistics of bringing that stuff in and out of a 3rd floor convention space would logistically be a nightmare, and the cost of "elevators" to accomplish all of this would be absurd. Not to mention the time constraints, did you think about how much time it takes to clear out a convention hall? Theres a reason every major convention hall in the country has a large ground level. Minneapolis would simply just get passed over by many shows if they did what your suggesting.
I felt like it was pretty clear that I didn't know what I was talking about and was asking questions for that exact reason.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 05:46 PM   #811
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I would not be surprised if the Convention center was completely removed from the current location and a new one built elsewhere in the future (like 20+ years).

- North Loop / Farmer's Market area
- Mid-City Industrial area
- Midway area

I think McCormick place in Chicago has multiple levels with large ballrooms upstairs. At least it seemed like it when I was walking around there.

Allows for shows to be on upper floors that don't require logistical challenges.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 06:48 PM   #812
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convention center in midway? yea that ain't happening. remember we function as two separate cities, which they are, with their own parochial interests. we need two of everything! yay... and why would we want this space among industrial uses.

there was a proposal back in the 80's to site it closer to Hennepin, 1st.
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 07:12 PM   #813
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Minneapolis is consistently ranked as one of the top convention destinations in the country. Why fix it if it ain't broke?
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Old October 3rd, 2017, 10:45 PM   #814
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A heavy-load surface over a large span requires an enormous amount of structure. Convention centers don't like to be full of giant columns. You can get beyond the elevator and setup/takedown issue but there are tradeoffs in load bearing capability and construction cost.

My city's new center (starting this winter) will stack halls, but it's only 250,000 sf of exhibit halls vs. MCC's 475,000, the heavy-load stuff goes at the bottom, and it's not built for the boat or RV shows which go elsewhere. In this 55 meg presentation, see page 25 regarding circulation and 44 for a basic cross-section. It'll stack in this order:
--Ballroom
--Meetings
--Meeting
--Flex Hall
--Parking
--Parking
--Parking
--Exhibit Hall
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Old October 5th, 2017, 09:29 PM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tree-hugger View Post
I feel like these are solvable constraints. What percentage of conventions have needs that are so extensive as a boat show? Reserve the ground floor for these events, which should be easily predictable. Build an elevator big enough to lift cars, and then you can put car shows on the upper levels too.

Maybe the costs of building a building with four triple height floors, each having to hold the weight of a convention really is too much. But it's so frustrating to have, as you put it, four big-box store footprints occupying prime downtown real estate. For what? Economic analysis tends to find conventions don't really bring to cities what their boosters say.
I'm no expert on the issue myself but my experience comes from my observations of walking through the MCC's skyway and riding past 16th & up 3rd Ave. and... those awful times I have to walk it! lol..

That said I think the BEST we can hope for is 20+ years with a redevelopment they build a convention center that is better wrapped with hotels that have restaurants and lunch options that better connect to the street. I'd think a 3 floor convention center 1st floor space that holds 60% of the conventions a 2nd and 3rd floors that hold each 20% of the conventions COULD be possible.. but again the logistics of the conventions are very difficult since vendors to conventions bring so much stuff and they have such limited windows to set up for the convention and take down and then MCC staff have to clean up and allow set up time for the next convention...

It won't happen but let's say that Wesley church building is redeveloped into a hotel tower, two modest tower on the south side with skyway connection that still allows the 1st floor to be a loading space could also improve walkability. There is enough space for Micro Apartments on the west side, and maybe on the northeast side they could cut into the building a bit and build a hotel tower there as well. Which would just leave the east southern side with the large wall. Unlikely that we would see any, let alone all of said options. Still such redevelopment would greatly integrate the convention center's big ugly wars into the city that is much more walkable.

The biggest hurdle in such a concept is private buildings don't want to be connected to other buildings or so close as that causes construction issues. So we need a MOA effect. The city would have to take a complete ownership/lead on such a project.

but... considering the convention center is in rather good shape, and we are more in the territory of having way to much hotel rooms than not enough..

such a project is nothing but fantasy.. Still... SCC Forum is the place for development fantasies!
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Old October 7th, 2017, 05:47 AM   #816
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Rather than a new convention center, what might be more worth our time as a region is building convention spaces that slot in between the capacity of the largest convention hotels - like the Hyatt Regency (105k sq ft) and the DoubleTree out at Normandale (70k sq ft) - and the MCC (475k sq ft) that still have great hotel access. The RiverCentre, between its ballroom and its two exhibition spaces, only manages to offer 162k sq ft of space, which is still well short of the MCC and can only carry an event so much further than the convention hotels as far as space because it has fewer hotels within 2 miles than even the Bloomington DoubleTree (I counted 9 for the RiverCentre and 12+itself for the DoubleTree, plus the rest of the 494 strip).

What I'm particularly thinking of are a few local geek conventions that are basically at the capacity of these convention hotels but that have schedules that mix weekdays and weekends (all of the biggest local ones run Friday-Saturday-Sunday) and likely don't mesh with the MCC's availability. As a regular attendee at a few of these, it'd be nice if they had better opportunities to grow into moving into the MCC. That's just some self-interest though.

No idea if something like this would be reasonable, though.
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Old October 9th, 2017, 02:52 PM   #817
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Leaked renderings hint at plan for Nicollet Mall Macy's site

https://imgur.com/a/eLaz0

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...the former Dayton's buidling reimagined with a rooftop terrace, a food hall and a street-level restaurant with walls opened to Nicollet Mall.

Gensler confirmed the authenticity of the renderings to the Star Tribune, but said they hadn't yet been approved by 601W. A public announcement of the plan is set for later this month.

Floor plans give some details about what could be in the works: A street-level bowling alley alongside a food hall with more than a dozen vendors.
https://www.bizjournals.com/twinciti...llet-mall.html









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Old October 9th, 2017, 04:01 PM   #818
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #819
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I must say, those renderings look really impressive and encouraging!
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Old October 9th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #820
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It's great news that the new owners have such a vision for the property.

As for the renders, everyone knows that Gensler has the best renders.
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