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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #3801
keber
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In Slovenia bumpy sections (from heavy truck usage) are repaired in one day, about 200-400 m of new asphalt per one lane (usually in more shorter sections), and that holds for few years. It is better than just milling excess asphalt. Here it could be used easily, at least until all legal matters are finished.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #3802
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Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
D1 in Ostrava has many other issues like using only 60% steel on bridges due to which they are twisting and simply need replacement while two concrete bridges fell from its bearings. In general the problem arose from fact that contracts for construction and supervision were won by the same company which was cutting corners everywhere it could accompanied by politicians so in result whole stretch needs to be build from scratch to achieve proper parameters. Generally I am surprised that this case isn't investigated on European level because of possible corruption, mismanagement of public funds and local politics meddling in this case. All who were fighting in this case from RSD side were either silenced or fired!
Seriously? Bridges "fell of the bearings" and the road is still in use?

I can't imagine that bridges which "need replacement" are open to traffic, including trucks. Maybe they just need some strengthening in places. We had issues on the MA532 in Mszana. They just added outside tension cables under the main span to better distribute the load.

I know there are a lot of serious problems there but that sounds a bit exaggerated. Do you have any links to some more detailed material what exactly has to be fixed?
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Old November 8th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #3803
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Seriously? Bridges "fell of the bearings" and the road is still in use?
Yes, seriously link to Czech article regarding that (click). As I understand it one of end foundations moved from its original position and bridges fell off from bearings yet stayed on foundation itself. Due to that they were restricted only for cars up to 3,5 t use and there was even fear of complete closure and possible structure collapse. I assume that bearings were repositioned and bridges are still in use. It is those two on 56 road approaches to D1 over Slovenská street. And basically whole stretch is so poorly constructed that it really requires tearing down and doing it again either now or in very near future.

Edit:
Here is other article with short video from testing of those structures if they are safe for further use or need to be fully closed (click). Those are bridges after 4 years of use which lifespan was designed at 100 years.

And another article (click) this time from closure due to emergency repairs thanks to which those bridges are still standing.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 01:29 PM   #3804
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These bridges were already completely repaired. The safety measures taken were strong enough.

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Originally Posted by keber View Post
In Slovenia bumpy sections (from heavy truck usage) are repaired in one day, about 200-400 m of new asphalt per one lane (usually in more shorter sections), and that holds for few years. It is better than just milling excess asphalt. Here it could be used easily, at least until all legal matters are finished.
We are not talking about bumpy sections from heavy use here. The waves on a new road are caused by serious faults in the used material for earthworks in the very base of the road. Repairing the road here means completely removing all the soil and build it from the scratch again. Years of new construction and hundreds of millions of Euro needed.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 04:36 PM   #3805
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These bridges were already completely repaired. The safety measures taken were strong enough.
These are bridges on approaches to the motorway. How about the mainline? Are there any problematic bridges or viaducts?

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We are not talking about bumpy sections from heavy use here. The waves on a new road are caused by serious faults in the used material for earthworks in the very base of the road. Repairing the road here means completely removing all the soil and build it from the scratch again. Years of new construction and hundreds of millions of Euro needed.
I gather that. But in the meantime they could temporarily improve the surface, (as it was done on the DW902 in Zabrze) while waiting for the long term resolution.

Anyway, what is the court case about? Who is going to pay for the repairs?

If yes, that shouldn't in itself stop the reconstruction from progressing. The road authority could pay for it up front and then claim the money back, pending on the outcome of the court case. If the authority wins they'll get the money back. If it looses, well it will have to pay for the repairs anyway.

I really think that all the delays are due to bad decision making and lack of focus on the authority side.
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Old November 8th, 2017, 05:26 PM   #3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
These are bridges on approaches to the motorway. How about the mainline? Are there any problematic bridges or viaducts?
I know that this question wasn't directed to me but I can at least partially answer to it. In general bridges are fine although reportedly only 60% of initially envisaged material (steel, concrete) was used to its construction which impacts its service life which will be much shorter than expected 100 years. The biggest problem seems to be with this magnificent structure (click) which already is buckled and every year it is more twisted so I assume that this will be the most problematic object on this stretch which will require replacement.

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I really think that all the delays are due to bad decision making and lack of focus on the authority side.
The authority is fully focused - focused on sweeping problem under the carpet. There are too many high profile figures in this case involved to be solved on national level so it will be never really answered. RSD will provide repairs up to the moment when everything is solved and there will be no one to be blamed. After all embankments will finally settle within 20 years, road will be resurfaced and most problems will be gone.
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Old November 9th, 2017, 06:37 PM   #3807
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Originally Posted by Trupman View Post
We are not talking about bumpy sections from heavy use here. The waves on a new road are caused by serious faults in the used material for earthworks in the very base of the road. Repairing the road here means completely removing all the soil and build it from the scratch again. Years of new construction and hundreds of millions of Euro needed.
I understand but I was talking about temporary repairing serious bumps that are dangerous to drive on. Making temporary asphalt patches is relatively cheap and effective solution for some time. When there is enough money and all legal issues resolved, then you reconstruct whole section. But until then at least some temporary solution for safe driving is needed - 60 km/h signs are not solution.
Looks like the same with some sections on Praha-Brno motorway, where there are some serious bumps that should be temporarily patched until reconstruction.
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Old November 10th, 2017, 01:20 AM   #3808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_P View Post
I know that this question wasn't directed to me but I can at least partially answer to it. In general bridges are fine although reportedly only 60% of initially envisaged material (steel, concrete) was used to its construction which impacts its service life which will be much shorter than expected 100 years.
This is unbelievable. Only 60%? That must seriously affect the possible load or service life. If they only used 60% of the materials and the bridges still can be used one could argue that they were over-engineered in the first place

How long will they last? 20 years? More? Less?



Quote:
The biggest problem seems to be with this magnificent structure (click) which already is buckled and every year it is more twisted so I assume that this will be the most problematic object on this stretch which will require replacement.
That sounds interesting.

BTW, are there some articles or reports available in English about the technical issues on this stretch of D1?
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Old November 10th, 2017, 02:09 PM   #3809
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
This is unbelievable. Only 60%? That must seriously affect the possible load or service life. If they only used 60% of the materials and the bridges still can be used one could argue that they were over-engineered in the first place
How long will they last? 20 years? More? Less?
I don't think that anyone will be able to answer that question although it was assumed that it will shorten its life by around half to 50 years and affected are 4 steel bridges. Although I must underline that my knowledge in that matter is from very limited newspaper information’s so in reality things can be slightly different that media posted.

Quote:
BTW, are there some articles or reports available in English about the technical issues on this stretch of D1?
I don't recall any of such study but if someone knows about such (in English or Czech) I would be more than pleased to read one
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Old November 11th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #3810
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Which contractor built that section of D1? Wasn't it Eurovía or Metrostav of some sorts?
I would say that Metrostav deliveres generally a very good quality work. A substantial portion of their revenues comes from foreign contracts especially in Scandinavian countries. Afaik Metrostav had nothing to do with this. Eurovia on the other side....

The biggest issue here was poor quality control management. Basically the quality control people were working for the contractor and not RSD.

Slag has been used because there were enourmous slag deposits from more than 100 years of steel mill works in Ostrava. The slag was tested, and only certain type of slag was found suitable, however no one was checking which slag type is being used.

There were design changes reducing the need for steel. I am not sure whether these were really substantial for the effective lifetime. However it was billed to the RSD as if the steel had been used. The motorway basically lays on steel frames in the construction of the elevated motorway through Ostrava.

Another point is that the roundabout designs of the interchanges are imho really terrible and backwards. I hate these kind of designs.
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Old November 11th, 2017, 09:51 PM   #3811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I can't imagine that bridges which "need replacement" are open to traffic, including trucks. Maybe they just need some strengthening in places. We had issues on the MA532 in Mszana. They just added outside tension cables under the main span to better distribute the load.
We have plenty of these bridges in Germany...
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Old November 14th, 2017, 09:28 PM   #3812
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Some new information about D1 around Ostrava:

Safety measures (diversion of traffic in one lane per direction to less damgaed parts of the carriageway) on the first 2 out of 4 dangerous sections were put in place last week and two next will follow this week. In the next weeks and months (with exception of the necessary winter break) 8 different sections with lengths approx. from 160 to 500 m will be temporary repaired to ensure a safe traffic flow without any restrictions.
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Old November 20th, 2017, 10:03 PM   #3813
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The visualisation of motorway D11 Hradek Kralove - state border (CZ/PL) :
https://hradecky.denik.cz/z-regionu/...-20171113.html
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