search the site
 daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Stadiums and Sport Arenas > Completed



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 10th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #561
Acidline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lake Michigan Garbage Projector
Posts: 139
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Illusive View Post
Owning a major market franchise is not easy. It costs a lot of money and if you can enter in the market, you deserve to keep your profits. Dodger ownership paid 2 billion for the team. Steve Ballmer paid 2 billion for his and Kroenke is building a nearly 3 billion dollar stadium. These guys aren't just walking in for free. They're investing and are expecting a return on their investment like any other business. They shouldn't have to give their money to these "poor teams" just because they play in smaller markets. They have the right to use their money for their business.

Tell these small markets to step it up, improve their economy and lure more people.

No one implied it was easy. But you certainly imply that teams in small market cities are do-nothings who "deserve" to be relegated to AAAA status simply because they operate in one of the less glamorous cities that MLB still decided they wanted a team to play in.

You can argue your support for a free-market capitalism system in baseball (that actually runs within a system of corporate cronyism created by a government sponsored monopoly) all you'd like. You will never convince me that the quality of competition in MLB is "better" if my team is guaranteed to play one or both of Boston or New York in every one of the 2-3 year postseason windows they reach.

Leagues that have salary caps, nationally pooled broadcast revenues, and very unforgiving luxury tax systems set their franchises up as 32 equal entities from the first day of training camp, and let them race to the top or bottom on their merits from there. Thats how NFL teams like Green Bay or Pittsburgh expanded beyond being small market Wisconsin or Pennsylvania area sports franchises into nationally recognized icons, and remain as relevant of a football brand as the Giants, Bears, or Cowboys. Thats exactly how the NFL exploited television to unseat MLB as the premier sports league in the US. Thats partially how the NHL briefly overtook the NBA.

We live in a time of mlb.tv and NFL Sunday Ticket where viewership and potential advertising dollars for any specific team has less and less to do with someones physical location being within the territory of that team. MLB has never been known for being on the forefront of changing demographics and technologies, but it really could make a giant leap if it embraced a more open, readily available system where someone who, for whatever reason wants to be a Tampa Bay Rays fan, can.....even if they're from Phoenix.
Acidline no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 10th, 2017, 10:22 PM   #562
Mr_Illusive
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 152
Likes (Received): 78

If smaller market teams can't hang and can't survive without having to take from the bigger market teams then they either need to be more creative, find ways to improve their market, relocate, or fold. This isn't a charity and I don't feel bad for them. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. No hand outs.

Last edited by Mr_Illusive; November 11th, 2017 at 12:11 AM.
Mr_Illusive no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2017, 11:10 PM   #563
pesto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,226
Likes (Received): 3029

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidline View Post
No one implied it was easy. But you certainly imply that teams in small market cities are do-nothings who "deserve" to be relegated to AAAA status simply because they operate in one of the less glamorous cities that MLB still decided they wanted a team to play in.

You can argue your support for a free-market capitalism system in baseball (that actually runs within a system of corporate cronyism created by a government sponsored monopoly) all you'd like. You will never convince me that the quality of competition in MLB is "better" if my team is guaranteed to play one or both of Boston or New York in every one of the 2-3 year postseason windows they reach.

Leagues that have salary caps, nationally pooled broadcast revenues, and very unforgiving luxury tax systems set their franchises up as 32 equal entities from the first day of training camp, and let them race to the top or bottom on their merits from there. Thats how NFL teams like Green Bay or Pittsburgh expanded beyond being small market Wisconsin or Pennsylvania area sports franchises into nationally recognized icons, and remain as relevant of a football brand as the Giants, Bears, or Cowboys. Thats exactly how the NFL exploited television to unseat MLB as the premier sports league in the US. Thats partially how the NHL briefly overtook the NBA.

We live in a time of mlb.tv and NFL Sunday Ticket where viewership and potential advertising dollars for any specific team has less and less to do with someones physical location being within the territory of that team. MLB has never been known for being on the forefront of changing demographics and technologies, but it really could make a giant leap if it embraced a more open, readily available system where someone who, for whatever reason wants to be a Tampa Bay Rays fan, can.....even if they're from Phoenix.
Ouch. Let's establish one more welfare project, this time for small town billionaires. Since when are they entitled to anything from anyone? Why not just tax the local citizens if they really want a team?

Main point: pro leagues make judgments based on profits not on your invented standards of what is fair and to whom. If they profit share it is because they believe it is good for their national media contracts (or are pressured by the players' union, which is another discussion).
pesto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 10:32 PM   #564
Acidline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Lake Michigan Garbage Projector
Posts: 139
Likes (Received): 83

Quote:
Originally Posted by pesto View Post
Ouch. Let's establish one more welfare project, this time for small town billionaires. Since when are they entitled to anything from anyone? Why not just tax the local citizens if they really want a team?

Main point: pro leagues make judgments based on profits not on your invented standards of what is fair and to whom. If they profit share it is because they believe it is good for their national media contracts (or are pressured by the players' union, which is another discussion).
Well, let's be clear, I'm arguing this point in assumption that we've already moved past the point of arguing the welfare-state stadium system from which major league sports teams receive their most fundamental revenues.

I invented no standards. What I'm saying isn't some obscure cry for egalitarianism. You don't have to look very far to find plenty of comments that echo what I'm saying. MLB and ESPN partially learned that the greater world of MLB weren't satisfied with how baseball was being presented after about the 8th year of them cramming Red Sox vs Yankees down everyone's throats, forcing cable TV blackouts on on paying mlb.tv customers who wanted to watch the Braves play the Nationals. Fox's Game of the week and ESPNS Sunday night baseball are still suffering from the lag in interest wrought by that time period.

Last edited by Acidline; November 11th, 2017 at 10:40 PM.
Acidline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2017, 11:29 PM   #565
pesto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 12,226
Likes (Received): 3029

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acidline View Post
Well, let's be clear, I'm arguing this point in assumption that we've already moved past the point of arguing the welfare-state stadium system from which major league sports teams receive their most fundamental revenues.

I invented no standards. What I'm saying isn't some obscure cry for egalitarianism. You don't have to look very far to find plenty of comments that echo what I'm saying. MLB and ESPN partially learned that the greater world of MLB weren't satisfied with how baseball was being presented after about the 8th year of them cramming Red Sox vs Yankees down everyone's throats, forcing cable TV blackouts on on paying mlb.tv customers who wanted to watch the Braves play the Nationals. Fox's Game of the week and ESPNS Sunday night baseball are still suffering from the lag in interest wrought by that time period.
This is a bit confusing but at least you are focused on business decisions, which is the reality and dynamic of professional sports, not your personal moral standard of what is fair to small town owners.

Just to clarify, welfare comes from one party giving to another because they are sorry for their situation. Cities do not give money to sports teams because they feel sorry for them; they do it because of a perceived self-interest in keeping the team.

This is often a correct business judgment; that is, that the subsidy brings a modern stadium, attention and money to the city that it would not otherwise get. In other cases it's a doubtful judgment or motivated by unions and builders who expect jobs at taxpayer expense. But it is NEVER welfare; it is made by people with business motives of some kind.
pesto no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
los angeles

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu