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Old July 24th, 2007, 12:03 AM   #21
Jasonhouse
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^I would rather have it along the trolley line.

The way the article is written implies the entire O2 site is being consumed by this office building.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 12:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonhouse View Post
^I would rather have it along the trolley line.
Well eventualy, something will be built on that spot. I would almost rather have a development that uses the land to the maximum density on the trolley line if anyhting, more so then something that isn't as dense.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 12:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by jonknee View Post
Most office buildings don't have 15 foot ceilings.
That used to be the case. Nowadays, they frequently have 15 foot ceilings, if not more.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 12:46 AM   #24
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^And some towers are going so far as to have significant plenum spaces between floors, like in hospital design. 14-15ft a floor is definitely common in new Class A office towers...
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Old July 24th, 2007, 03:17 AM   #25
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Hate to sound like a broken record, but I too would like a better use of the land in terms of density. I'm sure that the City will see it the same way as this is prime land in Tampa's most urban environment... it'd be wasteful to allow a garage up like this.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 03:52 AM   #26
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^Well, the city itself dumbly built the Channelside garage in a sprawling, streetscape killing manner.

On the flip side of our position, I suspect that some may view it as hypocritical to bitch about this project's poor design when city parking projects throughout downtown are easily as bad or worse.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 04:28 AM   #27
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Quote:
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^Well, the city itself dumbly built the Channelside garage in a sprawling, streetscape killing manner.

On the flip side of our position, I suspect that some may view it as hypocritical to bitch about this project's poor design when city parking projects throughout downtown are easily as bad or worse.
I considered that... but that was long before the proposals that would radically change Channelside were realized, was it not? And one error does not validate another. I'm also less concerned with the City lots on the adjacent side of the Crosstown in the CBD because land on that side isn't nearly as limited. What available land there is in the area naturally defined by the Crosstown as the Channel District needs to be developed much more carefully.

I'm not defending the City's current or past actions, but let's be realistic - here and now, it's essential that this plot be developed carefully.

Retail along the street level is a must; hopefully, liner office or hotel units will be incorporated; ideally, a new design featuring more mixed use, higher density space will be proprosed.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #28
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Post tensioned slab, 295'
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Old July 24th, 2007, 09:35 PM   #29
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^I wonder if the FAA has reviewed the plans? IIRC, they knocked O2 down to 244ft or something, didn't they?
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Old July 25th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #30
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Not sure about O2, but I imagine this one to be a stretch. We set the floor heights on this tower at 14'9". Whether the counts stick will be another story.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 07:09 PM   #31
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They reran this article in the TBT weekend edition, so it would seem that the project is gaining some steam. While some what lackluster in design and stature I think that overall it could be a nice addition to Channelside, though in all reality I think that I would rather see new commercial construction downtown where existing business infrastructure already is.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 08:28 PM   #32
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^ I second that.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 08:34 PM   #33
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I saw the blurb in TBT and then found the full article in the SP Times. Looks like this guy is serious and I think it's going to happen.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/08/03/Bu...ion_is_a.shtml

His urban vision is a tall order

Feel cramped by urban offices? Disenchanted by the suburbs? Just wait till 2010.

By JAMES THORNER Times Staff Writer
Published August 3, 2007

For all of the muscle of its jutting skyline, downtown Tampa is burdened with a higher percentage of vacant offices than almost anywhere in the region.

Thanks mostly to competition from the Westshore business district and office parks on Interstate 75, about 17 percent of the city center's top quality offices go begging.

So how's an enterprising developer to earn a buck in that surplus-laden market? If you're Bob Abberger, head of development at Trammell Crow Co., you start fresh a half-mile away in an area known as an entertainment district and cruise ship destination.

By 2010, Trammell wants to open Prime Meridian Center, 20 stories of green glass at Meridian Avenue and Channelside Drive, across from the St. Pete Times Forum.

It's been 15 years since anyone stuck a new office tower in the ground in Tampa's central business district. And at 450,000 square feet, the tower would rank among the top 10 in size on both sides of the bay.

Abberger's $150-million project aims to avoid the faults of urban offices relative to their suburban cousins: poor accessibility, limited or expensive parking and tight floor plans.

Trammell Crow has nailed down an undeveloped 2 1/2-acre lot on Meridian Avenue, newly refurbished as a six-lane boulevard that Abberger dubs "the new Main Street" of Tampa.

For ease of access to the suburbs of central Pasco and southeast Hillsborough counties, the building would sit at the foot of the Lee Roy Selmon Crosstown Expressway. A TECO Streetcar station is across the street.

"If you look at downtown they are for the most part the last generation of buildings," Abberger says. "We're offering all of the attributes of a suburban building and all the attributes of a central business district."

Trammell also is tapping into a growing disenchantment with the suburbs that's encouraging the redevelopment of peer cities like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham. The intent is to create mini-Manhattans that accommodate offices, retail, restaurants and condominiums in one compact core.

Channelside has enjoyed a head start. The onetime warehouse district that served the Port of Tampa is blossoming with dining, entertainment and hundreds of condominiums.

"In the long term it's going to be a great project. It's all about timing," said Tom Kennedy, a commercial real estate broker with rival Grubb & Ellis. "I think livable downtowns are very much the future."

Site selection consultant John Rhodes with Bradenton's Moran, Stahl & Boyer LLC notes that companies relocating to Tampa often seek out suburban office parks because that's where many of their mid-level employees want to live.

But what if many of your employees are 20- and 30-somethings turned off by kiddie soccer leagues and sticky commutes?

"Maybe this guy isn't crazy," Rhodes said of Abberger. "There's still a yearning for urban living. Regions are striving for more balanced growth between the suburbs and downtowns. It isn't one or the other. You need both."

Eschewing what he calls "skinny towers built over parking garages," Abberger envisions Prime Meridian as a wide building with nearly double the individual floor space of the competition. An adjacent freestanding garage would offer four parking spaces per 1,000 square feet, quadruple what you normally find downtown. Trammell hopes to draw most of its tenants from companies relocating to Tampa.

"This isn't seeking to cannibalize existing tenancies," Abberger said. "It's trying to bring a new employment base to the area."

The project is clearly Abberger's baby. When talking about the building he'll say "she's a big girl" and "she's virtually on the water." Trammell had scouted the site for years and seized the opportunity when a planned condo tower, O2 at Pinnacle Place, fell through. City rezoning approval is expected this fall, followed by 22 months of construction.

As a former chairman of the Greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce's Committee of 100, Abberger has a reputation for getting projects off the ground.

For those who question the wisdom of plotting another office high-rise in the high-vacancy downtown market, Abberger points to the Marriott Waterside, the luxury hotel his company completed in 2000 despite a chorus of doubters. The 700-room hotel is the city's largest and made a mint for its developer.


"I've always been a contrarian," Abberger said. "I've never followed the herd, and it's always rewarded me."
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Old August 4th, 2007, 10:20 PM   #34
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Quote:
Trammell Crow has nailed down an undeveloped 2 1/2-acre lot on Meridian Avenue
That's good news... It is just the O2 site. The density could and should be better, but it is what it is.

But other than that, the siting and massing seriously sucks and I actually hope it is denied as proposed. In its present form, the proposal simply is not in line with the vision neither the city nor its residents have for Channelside.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:11 PM   #35
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All the parking would be welcomed for events in downtown. I would like to see retail and food at the street level of the parking structures.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:34 PM   #36
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The massing is as much of a problem imo... If they approve this hulking slab, then the precedent is set for others to follow suit.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 11:47 PM   #37
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If I am not wrong, this is in the same lot as the one discussed at post 106 an following in the channelside thread.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 01:17 AM   #38
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Hope it gets denied.

The design doesn't work. Have him go back, rethink it a bit, and come back. It's too good of a site to be developed like this, even if having a seasoned developer put up a building sounds appetizing.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 02:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
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If I am not wrong, this is in the same lot as the one discussed at post 106 an following in the channelside thread.
It is the same lot, gstolze - much different concept.

Personally, I like the original project better, even though I was a bit of a hardass where the garage was concerned. I wasn't impressed with neither the layout, nor the color scheme. But I would rather see two mini towers as opposed to one tower.



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Last edited by Quegiebo; August 5th, 2007 at 02:27 PM.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 08:46 PM   #40
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I hope this one is denied. There at the very least should be something on top of that parking garage. I would say fill the site with 4-6 towers each at least 20 stories.
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