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Old January 3rd, 2018, 11:39 PM   #2161
qjone2
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Is the Wesel reconstruction anything more than a facade though? It is a seperate building in its own right or just a facade on an already existing building?

It looks great regardless.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 12:41 AM   #2162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qjone2 View Post
Is the Wesel reconstruction anything more than a facade though? It is a seperate building in its own right or just a facade on an already existing building?

It looks great regardless.
I wasn't talking about the Rathaus. I was talking about the houses facing the market square. The modern builds on the Rathaus side are bigger in size than the previous, pre-war houses (obviously). You'd have to do more than just reconstruct a facade to give it back some of its former glory.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 12:59 AM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontonia View Post
I wasn't talking about the Rathaus. I was talking about the houses facing the market square. The modern builds on the Rathaus side are bigger in size than the previous, pre-war houses (obviously). You'd have to do more than just reconstruct a facade to give it back some of its former glory.
I wasn't addressing your previous post in mine. Just a general question.

But yeah, for the square to be reconstructed properly there would have to be some serious demolitions. Facadism wouldn't work for obvious reasons, and would look horrible besides.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 02:21 AM   #2164
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In other news, though, the reconstruction of the old Synagogue in Kaliningrad (former Königsberg) is starting to take shape.





Front view.



From the back.



The original building's basement is being unearthed after 70 years.



View from the the shell across to Königsberg Cathedral.



The dome should be closed soon.



View of the Synagogue before the war.



And a visualisation of the final product reconstruction. Due to be completed in 2018. The group also have plans to reconstruct large parts of the city's former Jewish quarter, near the Synagogue.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 05:25 AM   #2165
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Königsberg is one of not only lost cities but also largely forgotten. Great to see some reconstructions and MUCH more are needed. It really was a jewel.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 06:30 AM   #2166
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Reconstructions in Kaliningrad are today perhaps the most viable of any city destroyed in WWII, largely because the former Altstadt area is still so desolate and empty. It's like Dresden's Neumarkt in 1990 but worse.

The former historic heart on the Kneiphof island was so devastated, for example, that there was nothing for them to do but turn it into a park. Only the cathedral remains.

Before:



After:



Hopefully if economic prospects in Kaliningrad or Russia improve, something will eventually be made of all that space. There was of course talk of reconstructing the castle and parts of the Altstadt around it, but 90% of the outline was bland postmodernism that didn't really do much to evoke a sense of the old city. It proved uneconomical and has been ditched. Hopefully better plans arise in the future.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 12:47 PM   #2167
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At Wesel's town hall, the Gothic facade was put in front of a 1980s building.
So yeah, so far it's facadism. Still a great leap for a city that has lost almost everything in the war and afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Torontonia View Post
Where can I find a link to the initiative of reconstructing Wesel's market? Are there any concrete plans for rebuilding (at least) the facades or houses?
Here u go: http://www.historisches-rathaus-wesel.de/


The most current project is to improve a corner building (Dom-Café Ostermann) at the market of Wesel, in a traditionalist way evoking an idea of the former building:

Now


After


Sources: http://www.historisches-rathaus-wesel.de/wesel/
https://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nac...id9454350.html
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/...-aid-1.4301736

Architect: Otfried Jaeger from Wesel.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 04:20 PM   #2168
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Thats not really an improvement in my oppinion. The could easily remodel the current building to a baroque/renaissance facade, but instead they just postmodernize it.

The right one is an example what elements they could use to create something far more beautifull and fitting...

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Old January 4th, 2018, 04:43 PM   #2169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
At Wesel's town hall, the Gothic facade was put in front of a 1980s building.
So yeah, so far it's facadism. Still a great leap for a city that has lost almost everything in the war and afterwards.



Here u go: http://www.historisches-rathaus-wesel.de/


The most current project is to improve a corner building (Dom-Café Ostermann) at the market of Wesel, in a traditionalist way evoking an idea of the former building:

Now


After


Sources: http://www.historisches-rathaus-wesel.de/wesel/
https://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nac...id9454350.html
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/...-aid-1.4301736

Architect: Otfried Jaeger from Wesel.
Id love to have all the old buildings back but I guess I understand people's reservations about rebuilding really ornate building but I wish we could do projects like the above with most of europe. That proposed building above is decent looking, if majority of buildings even looked like that, which is really still a pretty plain building, most cities would be nice to walk around.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 05:07 PM   #2170
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Yes indeed. Postmodernism still is miles better than plain post-war utility "architecture".
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Old January 5th, 2018, 04:01 PM   #2171
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My hometown Neubrandenburg, ladies and gentlemen.

Today, let's have a look at my hometown in Northern Germany, located between Berlin, Hamburg, Stettin and the Baltic Sea:

Neubrandenburg, Mecklenburg Lakeland

The old town of Neubrandenburg was set in flames by the Soviet army in 1945. It was devastated quickly, as many of its buildings were wooden (Fachwerk) houses. Only little of its profane heritage remained (such as here, here and here). Some of the remaining buildings were even demolished then by commie authorities. The city's most important monuments survived though, the Brick Gothic town walls and gates, the church of St. Mary, the old abbey.

The rebuilding after the war resulted in mostly pretty decent 1950s architecture, check it here, here and here.

The medieval tesselated layout of the city was largely kept intact, though the courtyards are now green instead of totally built-up. This is an aerial view of Neubrandenburg in 1943:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...jpg?uselang=de

From my collection:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...sch/1Sicht.jpg


https://www.flickr.com/photos/103303...59628/sizes/l/

Current aerial views for comparison:
http://stadtbild-deutschland.org/bil...randenburg.jpg

http://stadtbild-deutschland.org/bil...ndenburg-1.jpg

Among the hurtful losses: the elegant baroque City Palace (Stadtschloss / Altes Palais) of the Mecklenburg-Strelitz duke, since the 1920s residence of an art collection that was largely lost due to WW2.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F..._(um_1900).jpg


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...gel_(1920).jpg


https://www.flickr.com/photos/103303...20679/sizes/o/


Together with the adjacent baroque Town Hall (Altes Rathaus), it shaped the market square of Neubrandenburg:





Market square in 1946:



Market square (Marktplatz) in 1954:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...Brunnen%22.jpg


Maybe now you understand my virtue and Mecklenburgian stoicism concerning historical cityscapes a little better. More to come in time.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 01:27 AM   #2172
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Is there no interest among the inhabitants of Neubrandenburg to recontruct the old town hall in the distant future?
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Old January 6th, 2018, 08:48 AM   #2173
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Speaking of destroyed half-timber/Fachwerk oldtowns, here's Hannover's Altstadt before it was bombed into oblivion:





















While I do like ordered, highly ornate cities like Dresden, there's something about medieval oldtowns like these that I really love.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 01:55 AM   #2174
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Beautiful pictures ^. I remember reading through a travel guide from before 1914 which described Hannover as a "typical example of a German half-timbered old town".

By the way, I actually really like the small part of the old town that survived/was rebuilt afterwards; it's very nice and it gives you a glimpse of how charming the old center must have been before the war ( a bit like Romerberg in Frankfurt).
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Old January 7th, 2018, 02:21 AM   #2175
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I think Hannover's half-timber Altstadt was quite special because of how much water frontage it had.

The river Leine used to have two arms, and there was the 'Leineinsel' (Leine Island) in the middle, which was tightly packed with buildings right up to the water (you can see it in a number of the pictures).

Most of these buildings were of course destroyed in WWII, and in the 1950s the city decided to fill one arm and demolish the few buildings that survived on the island. In typical post-war fashion, this was done so they could build a big old road.

I find it funny that the 'Leineinsel' is still marked as a monument on Google Maps, even though it's a car park these days.

A lot of could be done with Hannover's oldtown, really, given that most of it is mediocre 1950s/60s construction. If talk of reconstruction can reach the Ruhr, something really ought to happen in Hannover.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 05:41 AM   #2176
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Panorama 1913 Hannover Rathaus by janwillemsen


Panorama 1913 Hannover kleinste huis by janwillemsen


Panorama 1913 Hannover panorama by janwillemsen
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Old January 7th, 2018, 02:39 PM   #2177
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A reconstruction of Hannover could be amazing. They wouldn't even need to be reconstructions at all, even very modern buildings which gave a nod to traditional style like the style used in frankfurt reconstruction would be great.


http://abload.de/img/1438_2043-pers-pk_kw1i6qcn.jpg



Even a reconstructed area with buildings that look like above would be so beautiful due to the tight densely packed streets(presumably pedestrianised) , the dynamic and diverse building forms, and the water frontage.
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Old January 8th, 2018, 07:34 PM   #2178
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Some winter scenes from Dresden



















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Old January 9th, 2018, 02:01 AM   #2179
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Dresden...was just stunning, wow

Sorry if I offend anyone! And maybe its just personal..but I think Germany had probably some of the most beautiful cities in european before the war..and also the largest number of beautiful cities even more than italy and france and spain I think.Their cities looked so incredibly diverse too. Just so sad
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Old January 9th, 2018, 02:29 AM   #2180
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I look at these pictures, and while a lot of these views are similar today, it also reminds me of what was lost. All those streets beyond the Brühlterrace, or the Frauenkirche, or along the Elbe. If only I could step back for a day or two in the winter

Dresden is still amazing, though



If it me, or does there also seem to be a lot more high quality photographs of pre-war Dresden than of other German cities?
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