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Old August 3rd, 2007, 03:16 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by yamota View Post
seeing that the japanese own most of downtown LA now I don't think it would be in their best interest to do that

You must be referring to Little Tokyo or something..... as far as Downtown, yeah right!
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Old August 4th, 2007, 10:15 PM   #82
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You didn't know that Japanese investors owned more than half of downtown's buildings? Well...in the 80's anyway.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 11:19 AM   #83
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L.A. has always been dense
template_bas
template_bas
Apartment complexes and duplexes have been a part of the city's character for a century.
By Todd Gish
September 16, 2007
There has been much hand-wringing and some angst of late over the upsurge of big residential projects downtown and in other parts of Los Angeles. The new apartment and condo towers, as well as mixed-use projects, are anxiously portrayed as the "first sprouts of a vertical cityscape" or a "testing ground for a vision of a dense, taller L.A," according to stories in The Times. Some even decry "the Manhattanization of Los Angeles," which, they say, would threaten the city's suburban, single-dwelling character.

All this fretting misses an important historical fact: L.A. has been an urban place with plenty of multifamily housing for a century now. Yet this image runs contrary to all we think we know about our hometown in the early 1900s. What about all those Craftsman bungalows and stucco cottages on private lots? we ask.

True, Los Angeles did have many single-family dwellings. But that's only half the story. In 1924, the Eberle Economics consulting firm calculated that 167,000, or just over half, of the city's 328,000 housing units were detached homes. The remaining units were in duplexes, four-flats, bungalow courts and apartment houses of every description.

This ordinary part of the urban landscape did not fit the powerful Arcadian myth crafted by local boosters, however. These growth-driven business leaders and real estate speculators tirelessly promoted Los Angeles as a "city of homes" -- a suburban paradise for homeowners of all classes -- to distinguish it from other cities competing for new residents. In fact, as of 1930, the proportion of single-family dwellings in L.A. was lower than that in San Diego, Miami and Denver. The "shack problem" was also common here, meaning that some subdivisions resembled purgatory more than paradise.

As in any booming city with a fast-growing and diverse population, apartments for rent were a necessary reality in L.A. But they were left out of the hugely successful "L.A. as Arcadia" publicity campaign. As did journalists in the 1920s and 1930s, many historians and pundits since have swallowed this myth -- which is why the discovery of an early apartment-housed Los Angeles sounds like a revelation to us now.

Look around. In the oldest parts of the city, seemingly ancient apartment buildings sit alongside equally aged private homes and commercial structures. Drive -- or walk -- along portions of Sunset Boulevard in Echo Park and Silver Lake, Soto Street in Boyle Heights or Witmer Street in Crown Hill and you'll see such a residential mix.

But it is in Hollywood and the Mid-Wilshire district where you will find the highest concentrations of apartment houses -- four, six, eight or more stories tall -- that cover an entire lot. These still-robust residential dinosaurs occupy stretches of Yucca Street, Wilcox Avenue and Cahuenga Boulevard in Hollywood, and rise on South Normandie and South Mariposa avenues, as well as South Kingsley Drive, near Wilshire Boulevard. Rossmore Avenue, which winds between these two areas, displays still-grand apartment houses where such early movie stars as Mae West and George Raft once lived.

Most of these hulking structures -- hundreds of them -- were built as a result of the same economic boom that gave downtown its grid of 12-story office blocks in the 1920s. Not only did many Angelenos prefer to rent an apartment rather than buy a house, but investors saw residential income property as less risky than oil fields or orange groves. Much of this real estate activity took place between the end of World War I and the onset of the Depression, when L.A. was booming in population, commerce, tourism and all the development associated with such growth.

And it's not only apartment buildings that helped characterize L.A. back then. Mixed-use projects -- the Holy Grail of "smart growth" planning that critics of mainstream American urbanism tell us existed only in Paris or New York -- were located all over Los Angeles.

Again, at many street corners you can still spot old multistory buildings with shops on the ground floor and flats above. But this urban fact of life never makes it into current discussions about development. A couple of years back, oohs and aahs hailed the arrival of the shiny block of apartments and stores built next to the subway stop at Hollywood Boulevard and Western Avenue. This is a good project, suitably urban in size and function. New, however, it is not. Directly across the street is a sturdy, four-story block of flats-over-shops that's been there, showing the way, since before the Depression.

And down at Sunset and Vine sits, well, Sunset + Vine, another recent high-profile project stacking hip residences over trendy businesses. New! Edgy! Exciting! Yet three blocks south on Vine sits the St. George apartment building, creaky but still pleasant in its brick and terra cotta, housing the same mix of activities as its flashy new neighbor -- and beating it to Vine Street by three-fourths of a century.

Many more of these older hybrids have been demolished and replaced since they were built in the 1910s and 1920s, and many of the survivors are rundown and easy to (dis)miss. But each one is testament to a thriving urban place where folks saw their neighbors in the hall, had no car or backyard and walked or took public transit to work -- all before movies had sound.

Municipal zoning did its best to standardize land-use distribution, but the housing/retail combination was never prohibited. In 1930, L.A. planners gave this classic hybrid its own category, which was then applied to stretches of city thoroughfare. "Mixed-use boulevards" along Pico, Olympic, Venice and Washington boulevards -- hyped by today's planners as the city's new salvation -- were not only being built by private developers 80 years ago but were encouraged in public policy.

Los Angeles is known for its attractive, tree-lined streets of bungalows -- but it was also built on the back of multifamily rental housing in an urban setting. Current neighbors may object to the greater density and increased traffic brought about by new residential projects, and pundits may question the wisdom of building taller and denser. But the tired cliche of an aging suburban paradise invaded by big, new, alien development can be put to rest. These big urban projects are not foreign to our city, but right at home.

Todd Gish, an architect and planner, recently completed his doctorate in urban planning at USC. His research examined the role of multifamily housing in the urbanization of Los Angeles in the early 20th century.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 11:20 AM   #84
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http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...day-commentary

L.A. has always been densetemplate_bas
template_bas
Apartment complexes and duplexes have been a part of the city's character for a century.
By Todd Gish
September 16, 2007
There has been much hand-wringing and some angst of late over the upsurge of big residential projects downtown and in other parts of Los Angeles. The new apartment and condo towers, as well as mixed-use projects, are anxiously portrayed as the "first sprouts of a vertical cityscape" or a "testing ground for a vision of a dense, taller L.A," according to stories in The Times. Some even decry "the Manhattanization of Los Angeles," which, they say, would threaten the city's suburban, single-dwelling character.

All this fretting misses an important historical fact: L.A. has been an urban place with plenty of multifamily housing for a century now. Yet this image runs contrary to all we think we know about our hometown in the early 1900s. What about all those Craftsman bungalows and stucco cottages on private lots? we ask.

True, Los Angeles did have many single-family dwellings. But that's only half the story. In 1924, the Eberle Economics consulting firm calculated that 167,000, or just over half, of the city's 328,000 housing units were detached homes. The remaining units were in duplexes, four-flats, bungalow courts and apartment houses of every description.

This ordinary part of the urban landscape did not fit the powerful Arcadian myth crafted by local boosters, however. These growth-driven business leaders and real estate speculators tirelessly promoted Los Angeles as a "city of homes" -- a suburban paradise for homeowners of all classes -- to distinguish it from other cities competing for new residents. In fact, as of 1930, the proportion of single-family dwellings in L.A. was lower than that in San Diego, Miami and Denver. The "shack problem" was also common here, meaning that some subdivisions resembled purgatory more than paradise.

As in any booming city with a fast-growing and diverse population, apartments for rent were a necessary reality in L.A. But they were left out of the hugely successful "L.A. as Arcadia" publicity campaign. As did journalists in the 1920s and 1930s, many historians and pundits since have swallowed this myth -- which is why the discovery of an early apartment-housed Los Angeles sounds like a revelation to us now.

Look around. In the oldest parts of the city, seemingly ancient apartment buildings sit alongside equally aged private homes and commercial structures. Drive -- or walk -- along portions of Sunset Boulevard in Echo Park and Silver Lake, Soto Street in Boyle Heights or Witmer Street in Crown Hill and you'll see such a residential mix.

But it is in Hollywood and the Mid-Wilshire district where you will find the highest concentrations of apartment houses -- four, six, eight or more stories tall -- that cover an entire lot. These still-robust residential dinosaurs occupy stretches of Yucca Street, Wilcox Avenue and Cahuenga Boulevard in Hollywood, and rise on South Normandie and South Mariposa avenues, as well as South Kingsley Drive, near Wilshire Boulevard. Rossmore Avenue, which winds between these two areas, displays still-grand apartment houses where such early movie stars as Mae West and George Raft once lived.

Most of these hulking structures -- hundreds of them -- were built as a result of the same economic boom that gave downtown its grid of 12-story office blocks in the 1920s. Not only did many Angelenos prefer to rent an apartment rather than buy a house, but investors saw residential income property as less risky than oil fields or orange groves. Much of this real estate activity took place between the end of World War I and the onset of the Depression, when L.A. was booming in population, commerce, tourism and all the development associated with such growth.

And it's not only apartment buildings that helped characterize L.A. back then. Mixed-use projects -- the Holy Grail of "smart growth" planning that critics of mainstream American urbanism tell us existed only in Paris or New York -- were located all over Los Angeles.

Again, at many street corners you can still spot old multistory buildings with shops on the ground floor and flats above. But this urban fact of life never makes it into current discussions about development. A couple of years back, oohs and aahs hailed the arrival of the shiny block of apartments and stores built next to the subway stop at Hollywood Boulevard and Western Avenue. This is a good project, suitably urban in size and function. New, however, it is not. Directly across the street is a sturdy, four-story block of flats-over-shops that's been there, showing the way, since before the Depression.

And down at Sunset and Vine sits, well, Sunset + Vine, another recent high-profile project stacking hip residences over trendy businesses. New! Edgy! Exciting! Yet three blocks south on Vine sits the St. George apartment building, creaky but still pleasant in its brick and terra cotta, housing the same mix of activities as its flashy new neighbor -- and beating it to Vine Street by three-fourths of a century.

Many more of these older hybrids have been demolished and replaced since they were built in the 1910s and 1920s, and many of the survivors are rundown and easy to (dis)miss. But each one is testament to a thriving urban place where folks saw their neighbors in the hall, had no car or backyard and walked or took public transit to work -- all before movies had sound.

Municipal zoning did its best to standardize land-use distribution, but the housing/retail combination was never prohibited. In 1930, L.A. planners gave this classic hybrid its own category, which was then applied to stretches of city thoroughfare. "Mixed-use boulevards" along Pico, Olympic, Venice and Washington boulevards -- hyped by today's planners as the city's new salvation -- were not only being built by private developers 80 years ago but were encouraged in public policy.

Los Angeles is known for its attractive, tree-lined streets of bungalows -- but it was also built on the back of multifamily rental housing in an urban setting. Current neighbors may object to the greater density and increased traffic brought about by new residential projects, and pundits may question the wisdom of building taller and denser. But the tired cliche of an aging suburban paradise invaded by big, new, alien development can be put to rest. These big urban projects are not foreign to our city, but right at home.

Todd Gish, an architect and planner, recently completed his doctorate in urban planning at USC. His research examined the role of multifamily housing in the urbanization of Los Angeles in the early 20th century.
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Old September 17th, 2007, 04:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threehundred View Post
You didn't know that Japanese investors owned more than half of downtown's buildings? Well...in the 80's anyway.
I remember Japanese investors bought many of the major properties in the city center which made news headlines but more than half of the buildings? I seriously doubt it. They did buy a lot of property in J-Town in the late 70's to mid 80's for development which most never got developed except for Yaohan Plaza, Japanese Village Plaza and the New Otani Hotel.
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Old September 18th, 2007, 01:25 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETOA906 View Post
I remember Japanese investors bought many of the major properties in the city center which made news headlines but more than half of the buildings? I seriously doubt it. They did buy a lot of property in J-Town in the late 70's to mid 80's for development which most never got developed except for Yaohan Plaza, Japanese Village Plaza and the New Otani Hotel.

^ You must be Japanese, huh?
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Old September 18th, 2007, 07:33 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferneynism View Post
^ You must be Japanese, huh?
Japanese, Filipino, Chinese and German.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 05:06 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETOA906 View Post
Japanese, Filipino, Chinese and German.

^ So let's see... Asian, Hispanic, Asian and White... cool mixture!
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Old September 19th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferneynism View Post
^ So let's see... Asian, Hispanic, Asian and White... cool mixture!
No, no, no, no, no. It's Asian, Asian, Asian, White or three quarters Asian and one quarter white. I think!
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Old September 20th, 2007, 05:54 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETOA906 View Post
No, no, no, no, no. It's Asian, Asian, Asian, White or three quarters Asian and one quarter white. I think!
Nooooooooooooooooooooo Asian, Asian, Hispanic/Latin, white....
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Old September 20th, 2007, 10:04 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferneynism View Post
Nooooooooooooooooooooo Asian, Asian, Hispanic/Latin, white....
Who are you to tell me what I am. My family roots does not include Spanish blood, only Japanese, Filipino, Chinese and German. I consider myself an Asian-American because of this. Are you Asian?
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Old September 21st, 2007, 03:29 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETOA906 View Post
Who are you to tell me what I am. My family roots does not include Spanish blood, only Japanese, Filipino, Chinese and German. I consider myself an Asian-American because of this. Are you Asian?

^ Spanish blood and Pinoy you said? Do you not know your history man? So if you want to be Asian, fine be Asian and 1% German.

... am I Asian, what!!!!!!!! maybe?
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:50 AM   #93
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Old construction pics:

Gas Company Tower



550 S. Hope Street



Two California Plaza



One California Plaza


Figueroa at Wilshire and 777 Tower (pic from top of page)


US Bank
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Old September 21st, 2007, 07:33 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Ferneynism View Post
^ Spanish blood and Pinoy you said? Do you not know your history man? So if you want to be Asian, fine be Asian and 1% German.

... am I Asian, what!!!!!!!! maybe?
Ignorance breeds ignorance
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 03:47 AM   #95
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Ignorance breeds ignorance

... if it make you feel better, sure why not!
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Old September 22nd, 2007, 05:28 PM   #96
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Construction of the Library Tower must have been an exciting time for urban enthusiasts in LA. Alas, it was before my time. Good thing we have so many new projects to look forward to!
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Old September 24th, 2007, 01:21 PM   #97
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"Ferney" I'm not anti-bus.
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Old September 25th, 2007, 01:30 AM   #98
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Am I the only one to have notcied the different types of cranes used to build those 90's 700 footers! Why did they use those if they already had the tradional tower crane used today?
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Old October 7th, 2007, 08:35 PM   #99
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from usc digital archives

drawing of los angeles 1849:


first map of los angeles August 29, 1849:


Indian house at the Mission San Gabriel, ca.1844:


Construction of a large arch in the Fourth Street Viaduct [no date]


Slauson Avenue Storm Drain [no date]





excavation on the site for the Hyperion Sewage Treatment Plant [no date]


diggin up sidewalks [no date, no place]


a man and his sink hole [no date, no place]


future site of i-10 looking to downtown [no date]


construction of the First Street and Figueroa Street bridge [no date]


tunnel construction [no date, no title]


fourth street bridge [no date]




someone out there has to know the name of this bidge [no date, no title]


chavez ravine looking west [no date]


near the los angeles river looking north east [no date]


rossmore avenue and rosewood avenue looking to downtown [no date]


hollywood [no date]


interesting view, usc has to hire some better researchers "Aerial view of an unidentified freeway in Los Angeles" [no date]


tenth and grand looking east [?] [no date]


biltmore hotel and pershing square [no date]


macarthur park [no date]


birdseye view of los angeles showing the examiner building [no date]


city hall and federal building [no date]



sfv [no date.. who would have though]


downtown looking to hollywood [no date]


st. vincent's catholic church adams and figueroa [no date]


goodyear factory [no date]


los angeles harbor [no date]



downtown and an airplane [no date]


stillwell fireproof hotel


arroyo seco parkway



westlake park


10 and 405?


second and broadway


7th and hill


some dirt road [no date]


grauman's chinese theatre


road going threw hill in santa monica [no date]


la county court house [no date]


venice beach [no date]


cal state la [no date]


cahuenga pass


westwood village near the intersection of beverly glen and wilshire


the sewer!


van nuys... not much different
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Old October 7th, 2007, 09:13 PM   #100
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continued....

santa monica blvd 1904


intersection in hollywood


news paper from 1857


city hall construction


second and broadway


ditch digger machine on washington


figueroa street tunnel


los angeles city court house


seventh and santee


union station

before construction

after


"Broadway looking south from Court House Hill, Los Angeles, 1860"


panoramic drawing of Los Angeles 1869


Broadway in Sonora Town looking north from Fort Hill, ca.1869


Spring Street and Main Street from a nearby hill, showing the Old Court House 1872


Aerial view of the Plaza in Los Angeles looking from Fort Moore Hill 1873


Main Street looking south from Pico House 1874


Los Angeles looking south on Broadway from a First Street hill 1875


Sonora Town 1870


Mission San Fernando 1870-1887






lithographs depicting Los Angeles, Wilmington and Santa Monica 1873, 1877



rose cottage 1885


west on third street from grand 1880-1885


sonora town from fort hill 1885


eighth street and westlake Avenue 1880-1910


Panoramic view of Garvanza? 1886


pershing square 1883


First and Hill 1889


sunset 1886


near the san fernando mission 1886


Engine company number four on Plaza Street 1887


railway map! 1888


ninth street near los angeles river 1889


street car 1889


some one pick this up for me... im tired
left off here
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