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Old September 24th, 2007, 09:46 AM   #21
Svartmetall
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I firmly believe that GYMS are BAD FOR YOUR HEALTH!!!!
100% absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. It doesn't help that my road becomes plagued from 17:00-20:00 by Gym Junkies and their 5L SUV's or 4x4's.
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Old September 24th, 2007, 10:10 AM   #22
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^ LOL
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While strolling through the 'scrapers high, Three's thoughts were lost in fog, "Oh, It don't got teams like Bulls or Bears, But Demons and Bulldogs. I say," he said, "this town of Melbourne's Very like Chicago."

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Old September 24th, 2007, 11:19 AM   #23
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You'll be happy to know that I WALK to my gym after taking the Link Bus. BodyTech represent! lol
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Old September 24th, 2007, 11:24 AM   #24
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You'll be happy to know that I WALK to my gym after taking the Link Bus. BodyTech represent! lol
FANNY-TASTIC ... I wouldn't expect anything less from you
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Old February 20th, 2008, 03:41 AM   #25
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People call for convenient public transport - govt builds motorways

Green media release 20-2-08 (via Scoop)

A new Ministry for the Environment report shows that New Zealanders find sustainable transport options such as cycling and public transport are not convenient, and that is why they are continuing to use their cars.

So why, asks the Green Party, is the government focussed on making it easier to drive a car to work instead of putting our focus on improving sustainable transport?

"It is reassuring that the report finds the majority (53%) of New Zealanders are deeply concerned that we are not doing enough to protect the environment. We agree with them," says Dr. Russel Norman, Green Party Co-leader.

"But it also shows that only 22% of New Zealanders regularly use public transport and only 23% regularly have car-less days. This result reinforces the conclusion of Chapter 13 of the State of the Environment report that increased car use is one of the key drivers of environmental decline.

When asked why they weren't using sustainable transport options such as public transport, 39% said it was because of the inconvenience (time and 'hassle').

"This report shows that people want more convenient sustainable transport options. This means fast, cheap and comfortable public transport as well as safer cycling and walking.

"However the Government still prioritises spending on making it easier to drive a car to work, as witnessed by the billions being poured into new motorways. It is trying to improve the convenience of unsustainable transport options, the exact opposite of what this study says is needed.

"The report is welcome because it shows that most people want to make our environment better and are doing something about it. However, when it comes to transport, a move towards sustainability is dependent on the government making it easier to leave the car at home and the government still has its priorities back to front."
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Old February 20th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #26
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I'd expect nothing different from the green Keith Locke is really starting to annoy me. No one has a worse accent than Sue Bradford too (Im on board with her bill but).

So I love motorways and think they are hot. I dream of the day when I can zoom on a 6 lane highway from Auckland to Wellington. Ive also mentioned that we in Christchurch deserve a motorway linking us to Ashburton and probably further. This doesnt mean I wouldnt like to see high speed rail between these centres as well.

They arent mutually exclusive people. And please dont anybody dare mention lack of funding means neither will happen. There is about 78 gazillion dollars in the entire world. Kiwis just need to work smarter at getting our hands on it.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #27
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You are exactly right. Sitting on $86 billion worth of potential resource wealth from 16 minerals alone does not help either. This is an issue most politicians seem to either want to avoid or ignore.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 10:27 AM   #28
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I'm sorry Milan, I'm going to disagree. I can understand your viewpoint having lived in So Cal extensively recently, but I have to say that having motorways everywhere is my worst nightmare.

Take a look at the statistics for PT usage in NZ cities that I posted on the Auckland photo thread in response to that American who wanted to know about car domination. These are incredibly low usage statistics on a worldwide front. It would be much MUCH better for NZ simply for our health to invest heavily in PT and then see what the state of the roads is.

I agree that some urban centres need to be linked by duel carriageway or even by three lane motorway in places, however, I reckon this should also be supplemented by a decent train line too during the inception of the road (if not before the road is completed) so that the mentality of driving everywhere doesn't become too engrained.

I need not begin to tell you about the abhorrent levels of carcinogens present in exhaust emissions and the deleterious effect that these said emissions have on health.
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 03:38 AM   #29
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And oil bumps up to $100 a barrel...
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 09:38 PM   #30
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A good motorway replacing a shoddy 'national highway' at least between our major cities will have many benefits; transporting of goods in a quicker time (not all businesses use airline or rail cargo) will help many businesses. Also a safety issue, the state of SH1 between AKL and Hamilton, SH2 between Auckland and Tauranga in relation to the traffic flows they take have been incredibly dangerous for many many years.

I maintain that we should have excellent roading infrastructure along side excellent PT. Once again, it would be good to see a high speed rail link between our main cities but consider that in the last few years with cheaper air travel (in the 90's you could easily pay $600 for a CHC-IVC fare) though that long distance rail will continue to struggle.
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 10:56 PM   #31
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A good motorway replacing a shoddy 'national highway' at least between our major cities will have many benefits; transporting of goods in a quicker time (not all businesses use airline or rail cargo) will help many businesses. Also a safety issue, the state of SH1 between AKL and Hamilton, SH2 between Auckland and Tauranga in relation to the traffic flows they take have been incredibly dangerous for many many years.

I maintain that we should have excellent roading infrastructure along side excellent PT. Once again, it would be good to see a high speed rail link between our main cities but consider that in the last few years with cheaper air travel (in the 90's you could easily pay $600 for a CHC-IVC fare) though that long distance rail will continue to struggle.
In some countries much larger than NZ in land area, trains manage to compete for distances of 100 - 500km quite happily with aeroplanes. True that above that it is slightly more contentious as to the benefits of train travel, but there is still a decent share of travellers. In some routes in Europe over that distance the train actually operates as a code share with airlines!
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 11:11 PM   #32
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Between large urban areas(or atleast highly populated regions)
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM   #33
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Between large urban areas(or atleast highly populated regions)
I'd not say that all routes are between large areas - some cities are rather small that are on high speed routes, especially in France. Sweden has a high speed line running between Stockholm (Auckland size) and Gothenburg (Wellington size sort of) with not that much inbetween! Wellington with 450,000 in the catchment would be a decent enough size to justify a high speed line - especially with cities like Hamilton and Palmerston North on the line too.

The amount of flights between Wellington and Auckland would justify a decent speed train between the two and people do largely prefer train travel to flying - I know I do! I HATE airports! The only reason the Overlander doesn't work is that its speed on average is between 50 and 60kph.

Also, it would be quite concievable to put a 160kph train between Auckland and Tauranga via Hamilton too, but this is as much of a pipe dream as a 6 lane motorway linking those cities.
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Old February 22nd, 2008, 11:30 PM   #34
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Despite very massive public transport infrastructure, the French are often locally renowned for their car travelling. Especially famous is the now disserviced route from Paris down to the South. Highway infrastructure in France is quite present and very much frequented.

On the freight front I can see what you mean.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:17 AM   #35
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They run a tilt train between Stockholm (1,942,233) and Gothenburg (890,956) over a distance of 470km.
Thats a little different to Auckland (1,300,000) and Wellington (379,000) over a distance of 650km.
The topography is also far more severe between AKL and WLG than between Gothenburg and Stockholm. Even a tilt line would require huge works and tunneling to make it work. Without a mega investment I think a 200kph line is out of the question. With alot of work on the line you might reduce the travel time from 12 to 7 or 8 hours but still totally no contest with flying. A TGV could do the trip in 2½ hours but that would mean an entirely new route at a cost probably in the vicinity of $8-10 billion (conservative estimate considering all the tunnels and viaducts)

Auckland to Tauranga via Hamilton could eventually be a good route for a tilt should Tauranga break the 250,000 at some stage.

In the mean time I think upgrading the existing highways and building more expressway / motorway grade routes (ië: Auckland - Hamilton - Tauranga or Wellington - Palmerston North) is the best course for now.

Developing urban rail is another story and I think this should be further developed in Auckland and Wellington. Christchurch is more of a lightrail type of city in my opinion.

What MA said about France is true. Despite all the hoopla about the TGV system the fact is that it's losing money and new routes have been largely put back in teh drawer for now.
For the meantime atleast the aircraft and car are king. Certainly in NZ and most other countries.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:43 AM   #36
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Oh I know about the French and their car centrism - but they at least are not as bad as the Spanish, if we take Hull (2000) at his word, the Spanish experience the highest volume of car travel of any European nation.

I agree that SNCF have culled a load of regional routes and their network is nothing like as comprehensive as other Euro nations (even the British). But I used France as an example of using high speed rail to link smaller urban areas.

Careful about minimising urban area size Kaas, Auckland is well within the 1.4 million threshold and Wellington has a catchment of 450,000! I agree that the topography is a problem and therefore the route would be problematic at best, but then the same could be said for motorways and motorway building! Don't forget that similar arguments are used for and against motorway building across NZ!

I know you're a little more pro-road than me, though even I can see the sense of linking urban centres by Duel Carriageway, I still say that the train is a viable alternative if investment is put in. Short term cash injection for long term gain IF DONE RIGHT! Airports are a nightmare, always out of the city, check ins are a pain in the backside, waiting around for an hour after check in... Ick! Getting to and from airports in NZ is also a pain and is very expensive! A taxi from Auckland Airport to the city will set you back a lovely $60 if you're lucky, so multiply that each way if doing a return trip from Wellington to Auckland! It all adds up to the cost of air travel and if people sit down and break down costs, an attractively priced railway service that might take three or four hours longer in journey time (oh so detrimental) can end up saving money and stress in the long run. You can work on a train with a lap top, you can use your mobile phone, you can effectively do your business whilst travelling, unlike on an aeroplane.

If Milan can dream about erecting 6 lane motorways across NZ, let me dream about my high speed rail and public transit alternatives.

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Old February 23rd, 2008, 12:58 AM   #37
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I hate being in airports too.
In the ideal world should NZ win the lottery it would be great to step in at Britomart and watch the world wiz by to arrive in Wellington 2½ - 3 hours later.

The big cost draw back with high speed rail is that it can't handle the gradients a road can and a road can make tighter (100kph) bends. That makes road construction somewhat cheaper in a rough landscape.
My highway visions are a little more modest than Milans admittedly
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 02:36 AM   #38
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The thing is though is that every person has a right to travel how they want without feeling as if they are morally inferior and being a horrible person. Cars, in all their forms (the oil-sucker to the hydrogen ) exist and if people want to use them, they should be allowed. Thus the infrastructure should be provided. I am of the opinion that instead of the scare-mongering moral high ground way of coaxing people out of their cars or into more efficient ones, it is better to see it in a way that shows how humans are progressing in that they can create "healthy cars", they can make possible "healthy modes of transport", that we can all take advantage of such innovation... Therefore encouraging (and not nannying!!) people to change their ways. I (am about to) scooter, take the bus, walk/run -- not because I believe it will lessen my "carbon footprint" -- I hate buzzwords..., I am doing it because a. scooters are cool, b. I want more people on buses because it will encourage more people on it which will bring on more elaborate public transport options (like rail..which is cool) c. because I care for my fitness. I'm not selfish, I just prefer freedom.

By the way, I LOVE airports!!!

And if one is really scared that the world is going to explode, which it isn't, just be thankful that you'll be dead in several decades or so.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 03:11 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by MonsieurAquilone View Post
The thing is though is that every person has a right to travel how they want without feeling as if they are morally inferior and being a horrible person. Cars, in all their forms (the oil-sucker to the hydrogen ) exist and if people want to use them, they should be allowed. Thus the infrastructure should be provided. I am of the opinion that instead of the scare-mongering moral high ground way of coaxing people out of their cars or into more efficient ones, it is better to see it in a way that shows how humans are progressing in that they can create "healthy cars", they can make possible "healthy modes of transport", that we can all take advantage of such innovation... Therefore encouraging (and not nannying!!) people to change their ways. I (am about to) scooter, take the bus, walk/run -- not because I believe it will lessen my "carbon footprint" -- I hate buzzwords..., I am doing it because a. scooters are cool, b. I want more people on buses because it will encourage more people on it which will bring on more elaborate public transport options (like rail..which is cool) c. because I care for my fitness. I'm not selfish, I just prefer freedom.

By the way, I LOVE airports!!!

And if one is really scared that the world is going to explode, which it isn't, just be thankful that you'll be dead in several decades or so.
It's not just about moral high ground, it's about the health implications of exhaust emissions. No offence mate, but you really don't know as much as me about this subject (unless of course you have studied in my area of study and I know you not to have). It's not about carbon footprint per se for me, it's about the horrific effects that cars have on the environment relating to US too! Are you trying to tell us that smog is a nice side effect of car-centric cities? I hope not! Concrete monstrosities of highways bisecting neighbourhoods, making walking anywhere difficult? No thanks! One thing Taryn said over all else about being in San Diego was that you simply couldn't walk a lot of the suburbs because the roads were not designed to be walked at all!

Run an Ames test or a micronucleus assay using just ONE of the hundreds of nasties produced by your average car and you will be frightened too. This is exactly why I'm not keen on buses too as inefficient diesel engines are just as bad! Hybrid buses, CNG buses and hydrogen buses are much better, but CNG is still not perfect, which is why I support electric rail based transit til I am blue in the face. As for airports and air travel, I'm indifferent, I just hate using it and thus I (like you) feel my transport preference (rail) should be catered for, but guess what? It's not!

Also, about the world exploding I like to think about the fact that my family will still be around in the form of grandchildren, nieces and nephews and the such like, so I want the world to be a good place for them to grow up in.

Last edited by Svartmetall; February 23rd, 2008 at 03:28 AM.
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 03:45 AM   #40
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Agreed. I do not doubt your experience regarding exhaust emissions and I, too, dislike them intensely because of the adverse health ramificiations. I'd give anything for cleaner cars (preferably not emitting anything that ravages a human's health.) I'm just saying though that not everybody, (I do though) wants to always be on a train to get to where they want. Some people like their cars. Some love flying and other prefer the good old one foot in front of the other. One day, the money, resourcefulness and technology will all come together to provide efficient and rapid alternatives to our transport 'fuelling'.

No, I don't advocate car-centric cities, they're usually the ugliest. No, I don't advocate smog-filled cities, they are not healthy. I think we should all take steps to keep encouraging human innovation to create other means. Humans are creatures of habit. That's why we still rely on oil because it's just so easy..so far.. and has been the way we have done it for so long. I just want we, as humans, to use the same ways of moving without deadly emissions on the side. One day, it will come. And as time progress there will be radically new ways of moving.

And if so much money weren't tied up in the oil industry, things would go so much faster in this direction. Bloody Exxon!
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