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View Poll Results: Which stadiums are better?
EURO2008 21 17.07%
EURO2012 102 82.93%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:15 AM   #1
Carrerra
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EURO 2008 VS EURO 2012

[EURO 2008]

[Switzerland]

Stade de Genève (31,124)




Stade de Suisse Wankdorf (32,000)


St. Jakob Park (41,500)




Letzigrund Stadium (30,000)


[Austria]

Tivoli Neu Stadium (30,000)


Wals-Siezenheim Stadium (30,000)




Hypo Group Arena (32,000)




Ernst Happel Stadium (48,844)





[EURO 2012]

[Poland]

Polish National Stadium (55,000)




Poznan Municipal Stadium (46,000)




Wroclaw Stadium (44,000)




Baltic Arena (44,000)




Silesian Stadium (47,246) - Reserve Stadium


Wisla Stadium (35,000) - Reserve Stadium


[Ukraine]

Olympic Stadium (83,450)




Shakhtar Stadium (50,000)




Ukraina Stadium (32,000)




Dnipro Stadium (31,000)




Metalist Stadium (41,111) - Reserve Stadium


Tsentralnyi-Chornomorets Stadium (35,000) - Reserve Stadium

Last edited by Carrerra; June 7th, 2008 at 11:17 AM.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:19 AM   #2
El Vampiro Ucraniano
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Euro 2012 is going to be the most attended Euro of all time, but in therms of organisation, infrastructure and ect i doubt that we will be able to compete against Austria & Switzerland.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #3
Quintana
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EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk
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Old June 7th, 2008, 10:56 AM   #4
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Euro 2012 is better the stadiums are bigger and better, and in the end the Infrastructure of the cities will be fine. There has been a slow start, but everything will get done definintely. Also, are you sure thats the right Interior of Shakhtar's stadium? It looks awfully real
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Old June 7th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #5
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the one is a pic of allianz arena, isnt it?
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Old June 7th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #6
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christoph- yes it is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk
Are you kidding? which stadium of the E2008 was finished well on time?
First deadline set by UEFA was made 2 years before the competition, so it was 30.06.2006. Therefore Letzigrund's 30.08.2007 or Klagenfurt's 7.09.2007 is not only after the ifrst (2 year) deadline, but also after the 2nd (1 year) deadline that applies in this situation.
While in Poland construction on 2 stadiums is currently ongoing and all remaining 4 are to start this year. Ukraine's Donetsk, Kharkiv and Dniepropetrovsk stadiums are "close to being ready" and only Kiev and Lviv might be running out of time.

As for your selection of cities to go to. I know poverty scares some people off, but football isn't about 5-star hotels, is it? It isn't about choosing the most beautiful cities only. I've been to Geneva, been to the reserve Odessa and would definately go for Odessa between those two. I've been to Bern, Zurich, Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck- all charming cities with great architecture. But I don't think Kiev, Lviv, Odessa, Wroclaw, Gdansk, Poznan, Krakow or Warsaw may really be afraid of a comparison. We all have our problems, but for me visiting Ukraine was among the best adventures of a lifetime, visiting Austria and Switzerland- not. (personal opinion of course)
Can't say about donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk (I am planning to go there in August though), but I have a simple advice for those who mind going there: stay at home if you mind so much, but think over what is so discouraging about these places. Not every city has to be one big SPA.


And my choice went to our joint bid. I think Poland and Ukraine have a few advantages that I appreciate:

1. Diversity. We have 2 cities located by the seas, and those are 2 different seas. We have huge bussiness cities like Kiev or Warsaw with skyscrapers groing wherever they find a spot and small, cosy charming and welcoming Lviv. We have the monstrous historical value of completely different old towns in Krakow, Wroclaw, Poznan, Odessa contrasted with heavy industrial surroundings of Chorzow, Donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk. I've been only to Chorzow of these 3, but can assure everyone it has still it's charm and I think that to people not knowing post-soviet architecture it might be even a treat.

2. Scale. Both on the map and in terms of stadiums. If it wasn't for Krakow, Lviv and Dniepropetrovsk, we "could as well" (of course we couldn't in real life ) host a World Cup with final venue for 85000, 4 stadiums with 50000+ and 4 stadiums with 40000+.
Plus, these are stadiums of generally high class designs with teams like world-reknown architects of JSK, GMP or Albert Wimmer, with a few smaller, but still recognized names.

Austria and Switzerland are also great hosts, but their stadiums are a lot smaller, their architecture isn't as captivating as of our stadiums (for me, of course with exceptions like Basel or Zurich). And they've got the infrastructure we wouldn't build in the next 20 years... but if someone comes to European championships for infrastructure, then I really feel sorry for people like this.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 04:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quintana View Post
EURO 2012 has the better stadiums on paper but at least the EURO 2008 ones were all finished well on time, something that remains to be seen for 2012. The general infrastructure in 2012 will be disgraceful and the whole tournament is likely to become a disaster. No football fan minds having to spend time in Geneva or Klagenfurt but a lot would rather stay home than having to go to Donetsk or Dnipropetrovsk
First of all, Euro 2012 stadiums are going to be finished earlier in relation to the championship than Euro 2008 stadiums

And second of all, as it was already said, it's going to be the most attended Euro of all time. It doesn't matter if Dutchies won't come to Donetsk and Dnipropetrovsk, because there's more than enough Ukrainians and Poles to attend

Going to be the best Euro of all time
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Old June 7th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #8
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Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012
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Old June 7th, 2008, 04:59 PM   #9
Energy2003
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having a look at computer animations isn´t the same then be there.

which stadium ´s better in real we see at the END of 2012. and never forget the whole infrastructure
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:24 PM   #10
michał_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspers View Post
Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012
It is possible as there are 12 stadiums prepared but UEFA didn't decide yet whether to llow more stadium or just have a standby list of grounds ready to take over. but this doesn't mean they won't exist.

I'll try to describe briefly the stage we are in:
Warsaw: first poles are already dug in the ground, but it's testing. Over 2000 poles to support the construction will be dug in, starting august. The "real construction" will start this year, hopefully early winter.
Poznan: the renderings we see here are not final. As you can see the stands were shown only symbolically, it's not how they will look in the end of course. Currently 3rd tier over "II stand" is being constructed, bidding procedure for ocmplete reconstruction of 2 remaining stands has either started or is to start very soon.
Wroclaw: I don't remember clearly what's going on there. Surely the "milestone" (?) has been dug in the ground for the stadium. The terrain is either already being cleared, or will be very soon.
Gdansk: Like Wroclaw.
Krakow: 2 new stands and multimedia pavilion already standing, old eastern stand is just being demolished and around September construction of it's new version should start. Around spring next year- construction of the 4th stand. All will be ready by the end of 2010.
Chorzow: I'm not sure if GMP already delivered the final construction design of the new roof and extra infrastructure, but I guess it should start this year as well. If not, it might be next year, but the works here won't be as extensive as in other cases, so less time is needed.

Anyone could say more ab out ukrainian stadiums?
I only now that Dniepropetrovsk will be open in August this year with Ukraine-Poland fixture
Donetsk in 2009 (?)
Kiev 12.2011 (?) (and what is it's capacity in the end? Is the shopping centre torn down already and did the dismantling of old stands begin already?)
Odessa old stadium being torn down as we speak.
Kharkiv in pretty good shape, more works there to come.
Lviv just selected it's design, but construction is to start still this year...
Anythign more or anything wrong?
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaspers View Post
Are all of those stadiums for 2012 confirmed? or is it possible that we wont see some of them in 2012
Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:38 PM   #12
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Also, I don't know what western Europeans think of when they hear Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk (eastern Ukrainian cities), but in reality they're some of the fastest changing cities in Europe.

Dnipro is one of Europe's future main skyscrapers cities which a lot of various modern architecture











Sorry for the offtopic pictures...


Also, I hear a lot of talk about horrible infrastructure. KYIV, DNIPRO, KHARKIV and DONETSK will all have functioning underground subway systems by 2012. Well, the first three are just expanding theirs, but Donetsk is opening its system in 2011.

And if you're afraid to come to Polish and/or Ukrainian cities, you should also stay home and not go out on the street either, who knows what awaits you there.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums
Both reserve stadiums in Ukraine are an 100% reality for 2012. One of them is nearly complete, the other is ongoing construction.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #14
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Based on stadia design alone, that was probably the easiest poll I've ever had to fill out on SCC. Saying that, the smaller capacity and cheaper designs of the Euro 2008 stadiums will be much better in the long run than the showcase stadiums of 2012.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #15
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I think, the design of the EURO 2008 stadiums is quite smart. Sure, they aren't the prettiest and largest of Europe, but they fit the needs of the leagues very good. And regarding that there are probably several million requests for tickets, it doesn't make much difference between a 30,000-stadium and a 50,000-stadium. That's better than every second club would be run down within five years because they have to pay huge stadiums.

Regarding organization and infrastructure, it will probably a hard challenge for Poland and Ukraine to beat Austria and Switzerland.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 08:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thun View Post
I think, the design of the EURO 2008 stadiums is quite smart. Sure, they aren't the prettiest and largest of Europe, but they fit the needs of the leagues very good. And regarding that there are probably several million requests for tickets, it doesn't make much difference between a 30,000-stadium and a 50,000-stadium. That's better than every second club would be run down within five years because they have to pay huge stadiums.

Regarding organization and infrastructure, it will probably a hard challenge for Poland and Ukraine to beat Austria and Switzerland.
For the 20,000 people who don't get tickets I'm sure it makes a big difference. Also remember several thousand tickets are taken up by media, corperates, RIP's etc so the actual number of seats on offer to real fans is much less than 30,000 so a 50,000 seat stadium might actually offer twice as many.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:39 PM   #17
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Some better images for polish euro stadiums:

Gdansk, Baltic Arena:











Wroclaw:







Warsaw:



[IMG]http://i32.************/2z5n78k.jpg[/IMG]








Poznan:








Chorzow reserve venue:







I think the infastructure will be better in 2012
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:50 PM   #18
masterpaul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrerra View Post
Of course we won't see 4 reserve stadiums if everything goes as expected becuase they are only a backup to designated stadiums

The reserve sadiums will be built anyway, u see. There a lot of factors which might put a stadium out of use. Weather for example (pitch becomes unusable).


Also, poland is fighting so that euro will be played on more then 8 stadiums. Same amount of teams but more stadiums.
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Old June 7th, 2008, 09:54 PM   #19
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I hope so. To be frank I want Euro 2012 matches played in all 12 stadiums including 4 reserve ones!
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Old June 7th, 2008, 11:21 PM   #20
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i like the planned stadia for 2012 and they are big for a euro championships but are they gonna be finacially sustainable in the long term.will the clubs be able to fiancially maintain them.It aint cheap.Also will the clubs occupying these stadia after be able to fill them week in week out.
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