daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy (aug.2, 2013) | DMCA policy | flipboard magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > Bulgaria > Urban Bulgaria > Economy and Tourism

Economy and Tourism Енергетика, Икономика, Туризъм и т.н.



Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 28 votes, 4.89 average.
Old June 11th, 2008, 11:47 PM   #61
JuMPer
Ой Ламьо - ПаPе нEма
 
JuMPer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DxB > 3028
Posts: 1,813
Likes (Received): 167

not really, as i said its a win-win
JuMPer no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old June 12th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #62
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

I started this debate as I just wanted to understand better the PROs and CONs of this proposed plant. I hope that Bulgaria will build this plant because, as I said, the more NPPs in the region, the safer the electricity suply. The electricity consumption will grow fast in the coming years both in Romania and Bulgaria but also in the other Balkan countries and they all will need the NPP. Romania will probably buy electricity from the Bulgarian plant, as the Romanian other NPP will come a lot later on than the Bulgarian one, and last year for example, during the summer heat wave, Romania had to buy electricity from Ukraine because of the hike in electricity consumption due to the use of ACs.

But equally important is the safety of the plant. And, to be frank, the EU Commission or other organisation may always look between the lines and come up with an argument that some plant is not safe etc and require to be shut down. That's why I think Bulgaria must think very well about the location of the NPP. This is, as some mentioned here, a huge investment for the next 60 years. It must be flawless so that it doesn't get derailed by some people looking around for reasons to take it out from the market.

Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #63
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Just a small and a bit offtopic related news:

Quote:
Earthquake rocks northern Japan

A powerful earthquake with a magnitude of 7.2 has hit Japan's north-east coast, injuring at least 40 people.

A tsunami alert was issued by Japan's meteorological agency, but later lifted after two small waves a few centimetres high hit the coastline.

The quake's epicentre is thought to have been 20km (12.4 miles) below the ocean off Miyagi prefecture, striking at around 1146 (0246GMT).

It shook buildings in the capital Tokyo, some 300km (186 miles) away.

The casualties were largely caused by the collapse of the roof of a swimming pool in Sendai city, Miyagi prefecture.

Initial reports suggested at least 80 people had been wounded.

But state broadcaster NHK later said one person had been seriously hurt and 13 were slightly injured.

Correspondents say Japan is extremely well prepared for earthquakes, and a similar magnitude quake elsewhere in the world would have proved deadly.

"There was a tremendous boom... People were screaming and headed toward the exit. It shook a lot... A lot of people were crying," a young woman at the scene told NHK.

Bullet trains were suspended, three nuclear power station were shut down automatically for safety checks, and flights at Tokyo's Haneda airport were temporarily halted as a precaution.

Some 17,000 households were reported to have lost power.

'Horizontal shakes'

Two tsunamis around 10cm high (four inches) hit the coast about 15 minutes after the quake but were not thought to have caused any damage.

There were also reports of a landslide in what is a mainly rural part of Japan.

ANIMATED GUIDE


"I was cycling to work and initially thought I had a loose front wheel," Sendai resident Philip Wood told the BBC. "So I stopped to check. Then I realised it was an earthquake since cars were shaking and electric pylons were swaying all around me," he said. Japan is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, situated on four tectonic plates.

Tokyo was hit by a magnitude 6.0 earthquake last month, which injured at least 18 people.

The country's deadliest quake in recent memory occurred in the city of Kobe in 1995, with a magnitude of 7.3, that killed more than 6,400 people.

Before then, a 1923 quake, known as the Great Kanto Earthquake, killed more than 100,000 people.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/h...ic/4155026.stm

Published: 2005/08/16 09:24:11 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
Our seismologists expect (a result of a cyclical evidence) a 7.6 (at least!) earthquake in the coming years. The Cernavoda NPP (and the big electricity and gas networks) have implemented a Japanese safety system which stops the NPP a few seconds after the quake is registered in the triggering spot by means of an electronical system. This means that whenever the electronical system registeres a certain scale of magnitude, it completely shuts down the NPP or the other energy systems before the waves of shock hit them. I do not fear of these systems, because they are all in all safe, especially the NPP is away from the shock wave, but I fear that many lives will be lost. In Japan, a few persons died (as recently posted in the news) following this quake. I do not want to imagine what will happen at a 7.6 or more quake in Bucharest, Iasi or Chisinau for that matter.

Last edited by Le Clerk; June 14th, 2008 at 10:57 AM.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 10:59 AM   #64
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371




What about if the hypocenter of an eventual future earthquake in Romania is located under the NPP at less than 20 km depth?

Do you think that your Japanese system will have the time to stop the reaction inside the NP reactors for less than one-fifth of a second?

Have you changed your mind yet?
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #65
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Romania registers earthquakes since the 1950s and all of them had as a triggering center the Vrancea region. The fault line goes from Vrancea up NE (by the E side of Carpathians) to Iasi and Chisinau, and SW to Bucharest, Craiova and beyond the Danube river. As you noticed on the map, the faultline does not go through Dobrogea. That's why the NPP was placed there.

PS: The Romanian Earthquakes Institute has the most advanced technologies and measurement techniques for earthquakes, since they were all bought on big bucks from Japan. They know very well where's the epicentre and where the faultline goes to. It takes for example the shock waves about 3 minutes to travel from Vrancea to Bucharest. In the meanwhile, the electronic safety system (which reaches Bucharest for ex. in a matter of seconds) shots down the main energy sources in the area.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #66
bgrs
dRusenec :)
 
bgrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sofia/Ruse
Posts: 9,212
Likes (Received): 860

I remember a quake whose center was in Romania when I was a kid (I was living in Ruse back then). Scary...one of the strongest ones I've witnessed. It was in the second half of the 80s I think...
bgrs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #67
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371

Yes, I have noticed on the map, that the faultline does not go through Dobrogea but this faultline may be occured from just one single epicenter which is expected to create a seismic waves from Vrancha/Vrancea area.

What about if near the NPP occure a new one? A nearer one? An underneath focused one? It`s getting funny then...

Somebody says:
Being that I live in Balkans, should I be afraid of earthquakes?

I say:
Of course you should!

Last edited by ВОДА; June 15th, 2008 at 10:43 AM.
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:25 AM   #68
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Quote:
Originally Posted by ВОДА View Post
Yes, I have noticed on the map, that the faultline does not go through Dobrogea but this faultline may be occured from just one single epicenter which is expected to creates seismic waves from Vrancha area.

What about if near the NPP occure a new one? A nearer one? A underneath focused one? It`s getting funny then...
Then we are all fucked.

BUt it cannot be, because the epicenter's locations have been scientifically proven and there are none in Dobrogea or Transilvania (with the exception of the Banat area, where Timisoara is, but that epicenter triggers lighter earthquakes). So it cannot be that Dobrogea will witness an earthquake.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #69
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrs View Post
I remember a quake whose center was in Romania when I was a kid (I was living in Ruse back then). Scary...one of the strongest ones I've witnessed. It was in the second half of the 80s I think...
I remember them too. There were 2 in 1986 and 1990 of about 6.5 (the BIG ONE was in 1977 and was of 7.6 Richter scale). The first one in 1986 made me sick like after eating something bad, because of the balance of the soil, which feels like you are on a ship in a storm. We are talking about this on a light note, but mark my words: Bucharest will witness a disaster with many building collapsed and dead people in the hundreds. The distructions are estimated at 10 billion EUR in Bucharest alone, if a 7.6 earthquake hits. Some of the old buildings are undergoing structural improvements, but not all of them will be finished by that dramatic moment!
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #70
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371

Dobrudzha/Dobrogea is not the safest place on the world after all.

Don`t forget the map!
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #71
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Yes, but the yellow colour is pretty safe. The Cernavoda NPP is located in the yellow colour. The intense red colour is dangerous. And I am not sure how precise this map is because S Romania should all be in red. And Dobrogea should all be yellow because the earthquake in Vrancea hardly sends shock waves in Dobrogea.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #72
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371



The yellow area is not that dangerous for occuring a strong intensity epicenters but it still dangerous for the seismic waves caused by them in the red one/ones.
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:45 AM   #73
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Yes, that's true, but the quake in the intense red area gets seriously diminished in the yellow areas. Probably a 7.6 quake reaches Constanta as a 6 one, but Bucharest or Craiova, which are much further away from Vrancea than Constanta is, may witness a 7.5 earthquake. That's because of the direction of the faultline.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #74
bgrs
dRusenec :)
 
bgrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sofia/Ruse
Posts: 9,212
Likes (Received): 860

BTW is Belene located on the yellow or in the orange area? Can't figure out..
bgrs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:52 AM   #75
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371

Quote:
Originally Posted by bgrs View Post
BTW is Belene located on the yellow or in the orange area? Can't figure out..
It`s in the dark yellow area or the pale orange one /I can`t figure this out! / in exactly the same dangerous area as the Chernavoda is.
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #76
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

It can't be in yellow, I told you that S Romania should be all red. IN 1977, Zimnicea (which is just accross Belene) was almost entirely wiped out. Look at what happened to Svishtov (near Belene):


WIKIPEDIA:


Quote:
The 1977 Bucharest Earthquake occurred on Friday, 4 March 1977, 21:20 local time and was felt throughout the Balkans. It had a magnitude of 7.4 and its epicenter in Vrancea (in the Eastern Carpathians) at a depth of 94 kilometers.

The earthquake killed about 1,570 people and wounded more than 11,000. Among the victims was the Romanian actor Toma Caragiu. Nicolae Ceauşescu had to suspend his official trip to Nigeria.

About 35,000 buildings were damaged, and the total damage was estimated at more than two billion dollars. Most of the damage was concentrated in Romania's capital, Bucharest, where about 33 large buildings collapsed. Most of those buildings were built before World War II, and were not reinforced. Many of the historic buildings that collapsed were not rebuilt; instead, the land was cleared for the building of the Palace of the Parliament. After the earthquake, the Romanian government imposed tougher construction standards.

About 80% of the town of Zimnicea was destroyed. In Bulgaria, the earthquake is known as the Vrancea Earthquake or Svishtov Earthquake. Three blocks of flats in the Bulgarian town of Svishtov (near Zimnicea) collapsed, killing more than 100 people. Many other buildings were damaged, including the Church of the Holy Trinity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Bucharest_earthquake



Quote:
On 10 November 1940, another earthquake had struck Bucharest with a Richter magnitude of 7,7.
This is a cyclical quake. It happens every 35-40 years. That's why we expect another one soon.

Last edited by Le Clerk; June 14th, 2008 at 12:22 PM.
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 14th, 2008, 12:22 PM   #77
ВОДА
Hipster Santa
 
ВОДА's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sofia
Posts: 11,601
Likes (Received): 371



I know all of this pretty well but while we were talking a strong 7.0 earthquake hit Japan.


http://news.ibox.bg/news/id_1292753998
ВОДА no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 10:21 AM   #78
Yury
Registered User
 
Yury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nikolaev/Moscow/The Hague
Posts: 1,475
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I remember them too. There were 2 in 1986 and 1990 of about 6.5 (the BIG ONE was in 1977 and was of 7.6 Richter scale). The first one in 1986 made me sick like after eating something bad, because of the balance of the soil, which feels like you are on a ship in a storm. We are talking about this on a light note, but mark my words: Bucharest will witness a disaster with many building collapsed and dead people in the hundreds. The distructions are estimated at 10 billion EUR in Bucharest alone, if a 7.6 earthquake hits. Some of the old buildings are undergoing structural improvements, but not all of them will be finished by that dramatic moment!
I was too young to remember the 1986 ones, but the 1990 one I do remember as I was living in Nikolaev back then. The taller appartment blocks shook violantly though I think there were no deaths in Ukraine. It was also said that the quake was felt by people on top of the Ostankino TV tower in Moscow
Yury no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #79
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31,953
Likes (Received): 3171

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yury View Post
I was too young to remember the 1986 ones, but the 1990 one I do remember as I was living in Nikolaev back then. The taller appartment blocks shook violantly though I think there were no deaths in Ukraine. It was also said that the quake was felt by people on top of the Ostankino TV tower in Moscow
I just hope that the future earthquake in Romania will not put down Russia tower! In any case, good earthquakes is something that we can export to Russia to balance our trade account!

I think Russia will send help to Bucharest if the 7.6 one hits.
BTW: Romania offered help to Russia to clean away the oil spill in N/E Black Sea a year or so ago, but Russia refused it
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #80
Yury
Registered User
 
Yury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nikolaev/Moscow/The Hague
Posts: 1,475
Likes (Received): 3

Russia Tower has a very stable triangular structure and a wide base, so it should be fine. And I am sure Russia will help in case of earthquake too, like it helped Balkan nations with extinguishing forest fires last summer. A great way to spread soft power and a good PR opportunity too
Yury no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
bulgaria, energy, nuclear, solar power, wind power generators

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu