FIFA World Cup 2018 / 2022 bids

[Benjuk]

Originally Posted by theespecialone

don't see why the likes of townsville and canberra can't build temporary stands that fit in aesthetically.
Places like newcastle could probably accomodate a 40 000 seat stadium, even though they wont be full all the time. The capital cities can definately accomodate expanded stadiums.

I held out hopes for this - however, I've been informed (on this forum) that FIFA frowns on temporary stands. I have no reason to doubt that information as it appears to fit in with FIFA's reasoning... Otherwise I'd advocate London Olympic style 70-80k (in terms of size) venues for 4 or 5 cities around Oz, to be reduced London style to 25k after the finals.

[woozoo]

woozoo....don't worry about rover3-he's just an insecure troll. He threatened to bash me (over the internet lol) after i suggested that america won't get the 2022 World Cup.

Believe me, I'm not. What a tool.

Firstly what an ugly troll you are, do you know for a fact that football will not grow in China to be the number one sport? Do you know for a fact that people will be "forced" to attend matches at gun point as you presume?

I didn't presume people will be force to attend games. I said it won't happen.
I'm sure football will grow in China, but for now its league is dismal, crowds are very poor and the national team is extremely weak. From what I have read on wikipedia the league is very corrupt and suffers from a lot of fixed matches.

Secondly get your facts right before posting rubbish here, where did Japan finish in the FIFA 2002 WC? As far as I know they did progress past the group stages and as a matter of fact they topped their group.

My bad. Crucify me.

Thirdly I cannot see why any FIFA confederation (read the African, Asian, South American) will vote for Australia ahead of China - go read up on the voting FIFA process if you do not know what I mean.

Thats what we're discussing here. Who would be likely to get more votes. I already wrote many times what I believe is wrong with Chinas bid, and hence why countries would vote for Australia instead of China.

I would love to read up about the FIFA voting process. Please post a link so I can relieve myself of my ignorance.
Seriously.

And finally as far as I know China will only bid to host the FIFA 2022 WC not 2018 which strangely is the title of this thread.

China has expressed interest in placing a bid. Either way this thread has expanded from just the 2018 bid to other future world cup bids in general.

The thing is mate, I don't disagree. I'm merely exploring every alternative I can think of - making sure I keep a realistic level of expectation.

But you do disagree, on many issues.

I'm exploring every alternative also, and trying to be realistic.
Realistically theres no country in Africa that could host the cup anytime soon. Why? Unlike South Africa, theres no infrastructure. No stadiums. No money to invest in stadiums. No history in staging such events. FIFA gave Africa a cup, and it won't coming back for a while. Agree or disagree?
Realistically it would be very odd for FIFA to give a country hosting privileges twice in a row in a particular confederation, when there are strong bids from other countries.

[woozoo]

I held out hopes for this - however, I've been informed (on this forum) that FIFA frowns on temporary stands. I have no reason to doubt that information as it appears to fit in with FIFA's reasoning... Otherwise I'd advocate London Olympic style 70-80k (in terms of size) venues for 4 or 5 cities around Oz, to be reduced London style to 25k after the finals.

In the past I was concerned about Australia needed white elephant stadiums to get the cup. But now, the white elephant issue doesn't seem to be that important.

Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Melbourne/Sydney/Perth, Sydney, Brisbane wouldn't be white elephants.
All the stadiums already exist apart from Perth where the decision to build a new movable tier stadium has already been made, and Adelaide where discussion has been brewing for several years and a new stadium is inevitable.

Newcastle And Gold Coast are large enough to support a 40K stadium.

So really, if any the only white elephant stadiums will be Canberra and Townsville.

It doesn't seem FIFA would care all too much about two white elephants, which will still get regular use after the tournament (ACT Brumbies, Canberra Raiders, New Aleague club/Cowboys, NCFC).

[Benjuk]

Originally Posted by woozoo

In the past I was concerned about Australia needed white elephant stadiums to get the cup. But now, the white elephant issue doesn't seem to be that important.

Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Melbourne/Sydney/Perth, Sydney, Brisbane wouldn't be white elephants.
All the stadiums already exist apart from Perth where the decision to build a new movable tier stadium has already been made, and Adelaide where discussion has been brewing for several years and a new stadium is inevitable.

Newcastle And Gold Coast are large enough to support a 40K stadium.

So really, if any the only white elephant stadiums will be Canberra and Townsville.

It doesn't seem FIFA would care all too much about two white elephants, which will still get regular use after the tournament (ACT Brumbies, Canberra Raiders, New Aleague club/Cowboys, NCFC).

Now this is just me being me, not totally serious - understanding where you are coming from, etc... BUT... If Gold Coast can support a 40k stadium, why didn't they build one, rather than capping their new venue at 27k (IIRC)?

[Benjuk]

Originally Posted by woozoo

Thats what we're discussing here. Who would be likely to get more votes. I already wrote many times what I believe is wrong with Chinas bid, and hence why countries would vote for Australia instead of China.

I would love to read up about the FIFA voting process. Please post a link so I can relieve myself of my ignorance.
Seriously.

Go out and get a copy of FOUL! by Andrew Jennings. A top class read that reveals all too much about FIFA's selection process and corruption. I guarentee it will change the way you feel about whether logic will interfere with World Cup venue selection.

Originally Posted by woozoo

But you do disagree, on many issues.

I'm exploring every alternative also, and trying to be realistic.
Realistically theres no country in Africa that could host the cup anytime soon. Why? Unlike South Africa, theres no infrastructure. No stadiums. No money to invest in stadiums. No history in staging such events. FIFA gave Africa a cup, and it won't coming back for a while. Agree or disagree?
Realistically it would be very odd for FIFA to give a country hosting privileges twice in a row in a particular confederation, when there are strong bids from other countries.

I see the alternative and I state it - that doesn't automatically mean that I 'believe' it.

With regard to the 'realistic' hopes of other countries in Africa - as I said before, Morocco got 10 of the 24 votes for 2010, which would indicate that a large portion of the voters believed that they could get everything in order within a decade... I don't imagine that things have got particularly worse in Morocco since then - so who's to say they couldn't still do all the things they were planning on back then?

FIFA won't give hosting privileges to any federation twice in a row - 2010 to 2022 isn't twice in a row, it's twice in 12 years. 2018 will, quite simply, be the best bid not involving South America or Africa (probably a European one, England or Spain), and 2022 will be the best bid not including Europe or South America (meaning that Africa having had it in 2010 will have no relevence at all - if an African country puts in a better bid than the rest, they'll win it).

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by woozoo

Currently there are about 10 rugby Union internationals each year in Australia.

More like 6 - three in the Tri-Nations and two or three against touring international sides.

[theespecialone]

Originally Posted by Benjuk

Go out and get a copy of FOUL! by Andrew Jennings. A top class read that reveals all too much about FIFA's selection process and corruption. I guarentee it will change the way you feel about whether logic will interfere with World Cup venue selection.



I see the alternative and I state it - that doesn't automatically mean that I 'believe' it.

With regard to the 'realistic' hopes of other countries in Africa - as I said before, Morocco got 10 of the 24 votes for 2010, which would indicate that a large portion of the voters believed that they could get everything in order within a decade... I don't imagine that things have got particularly worse in Morocco since then - so who's to say they couldn't still do all the things they were planning on back then?

FIFA won't give hosting privileges to any federation twice in a row - 2010 to 2022 isn't twice in a row, it's twice in 12 years. 2018 will, quite simply, be the best bid not involving South America or Africa (probably a European one, England or Spain), and 2022 will be the best bid not including Europe or South America (meaning that Africa having had it in 2010 will have no relevence at all - if an African country puts in a better bid than the rest, they'll win it).

africa won't bid in 2022 nor in 2026..if they do they have no chance because 16 years is not a very long time between tournaments unless its europe where the game is virtually based

[Benjuk]

Originally Posted by theespecialone

africa won't bid in 2022 nor in 2026..if they do they have no chance because 16 years is not a very long time between tournaments unless its europe where the game is virtually based

Whether they have a chance of not depends on what deals they can make with the rest of the footballing world.
If the African Confederation can make deals to back a US finals in 2026, and a European finals for 2030 (huge bunfight for the Centenial Finals is likely between South America, hosts of the first finals, and Europe 'home of the game'), they may be able to garner enough votes to get them beyond the rest.

[woozoo]

More like 6 - three in the Tri-Nations and two or three against touring international sides.

This year its 3 tri nations and 6 in the bundaberg rum series. Dont see why other years would be any less.



It 2022 Gold Coast will have a population of 800,000. Thats big enough for a 40K stadium. If it weren't for the world cup there would maybe be less purpose for upgrading, but with the world cup in town it provides reason to increase capacity.

If you think Morrocco has more chance of hosting the world cup in 2022 or 2026 than Australia your delusional. It got 10 votes against South Africa, not against any country with a sound bid. Poland/Ukraine are struggling to put together euro 2012, and thats two industrialised countries with a combined population of 90 million. FIFA isnt going to risk giving hosting rights to Moroco.

By twice in a row i meant giving Japan the world cup hosting rights twice in a row in terms of the confedaration.

[JohanSA]

Just to put one thing straight. To all the biggots that stated that South Africa only got 2010 because it had to be in Africa and wouldnt have stood a chance in normal bidding you are forgetting that for the 2006 bid Germany only beat us by one vote in the final round of voting. This is after the New Zealand representative ignored orders from New Zealand to vote for South Africa and didnt cast a vote. It would have ended in a tie.

Puts things into perspective doesnt it.

[Weebie]

Originally Posted by JohanSA

Just to put one thing straight. To all the biggots that stated that South Africa only got 2010 because it had to be in Africa and wouldnt have stood a chance in normal bidding you are forgetting that for the 2006 bid Germany only beat us by one vote in the final round of voting. This is after the New Zealand representative ignored orders from New Zealand to vote for South Africa and didnt cast a vote. It would have ended in a tie.

Puts things into perspective doesnt it.

Shuttup you fool.

You only got it because of FIFAs promise for Africa and already 2 years out your world cup is turning into a joke. SA is the only african country that might be able to host a world cup.

Ocieana got screwed again and again so its best thing was not to vote.

You weren;t ready in 2006 to host the world cup so blatter used his vote get over it

[JohanSA]

Originally Posted by Weebie

Shuttup you fool.

You only got it because of FIFAs promise for Africa and already 2 years out your world cup is turning into a joke. SA is the only african country that might be able to host a world cup.

Ocieana got screwed again and again so its best thing was not to vote.

You weren;t ready in 2006 to host the world cup so blatter used his vote get over it

Oh my word your the fool.
A joke ? Your bigottry knows no bounds!

Ocieana is filled with people like you so will never get taken seriously!

For your information Blatter never got to use his deciding vote for he was the one promoting a worldcup in South Africa and it didnt end in a tie.

Ocieana has gotten the Olympics , CWG , 4 Rugby worldcups and numerous other world events so dont see you being screwed anywhere!

Africa has deserved a worldcup for a long time and there are numerous other African countries that can host the worldcup . Morocco and Egypt are almost developed countries already.

Ocieana dont have the population or the money to ever really count in the modern world . You are but a passing craze....

BTW South Africa will deliver everything on time and host one of the best worldcups ever . If you can show me a project that will not meat its SWC deadline I will provide the information proving you wrong! RWC 95 and CWC 03 are still regarded as the one of the best if not the best tournaments of both codes.

Being in Africa does not make us South Africans inferior to you or less capable! If you think so then your no more than a caveman......

[dysan1]

i agree that the pessimism over south africa is alarming but not unexpected, the world likes to live on the failure of others and has the us and them mentality. C'est la vie.

[Andaluz]

Spanish stadiums:

Madrid - Estadio Santiago Bernabeu - 80.000





Barcelona - Camp Nou - 106.000







Valencia - Nou Mestalla - 70.000





Sevilla - La Cartuja - 60.000





Zaragoza - Nueva Romareda - 50.000







Bilbao - Nuevo San Mamés - 57.000

[Chimaera]

I've never seen that particular design for Nueva Romareda. New?

If Sevilla FC or Real Betis builts or renovates a stadium, I'd rather use that over La Cartuja as a World Cup venue.

EDIT: Just discovered on the Spain/Aragón subforum that this design has been released today. Unfortunately my Spanish is poor.

[Andaluz]

Originally Posted by Chimaera

I've never seen that particular design for Nueva Romareda. New?

New from today:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=674104

Originally Posted by Chimaera

If Sevilla FC or Real Betis builts or renovates a stadium, I'd rather use that over La Cartuja as a World Cup venue.

It´s possible

Sevilla - Estadio Ramón Sánchez Pizjuán - 55.000/60.000











Sevilla - Estadio Ruiz de Lopera - 62.000

[RobH]

The players will obviously be craving a nice temperate climate after playing in South Africa and Brazil so Spain's out of the picture

[Chimaera]

Originally Posted by RobH

The players will obviously be craving a nice temperate climate after playing in South Africa and Brazil so Spain's out of the picture

Summer in Europe means "winter" in South Africa and vice versa. I'm not sure about the Brazilian climate.

[JohanSA]

Yap the highveld ( Johannesburg ..... ) drops below 0 at night. Daytime temperatures between 10 and 25 degrees celsius. Snow on the mountains. You can even go for a ski holiday at tiffendel in the drakensberg.

Cape Town gets storms around once every 1-2 weeks.

[RobH]

That's what I get for being facetious, lol!