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Old October 6th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #21
steve5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Küsel: Meinen Vorschlag hattest du auch gelesen, oder?

Umbenennung des Forums auf der Indexseite (unter Euroscrapers) von "German" in "German - Austrian - Swiss" oder ähnliches. Das Schweizer Forum würde nicht mehr übersehen werden. Neu strukturiert werden kann dann ja immer noch. Und damit wären die Probleme, die es anscheinend mit dem Schweizer Forum in der derzeitigen Form gibt, allesamt aus der Welt.

Wenn die UIG-Gemeinde sich aber jemals von der Euroscrapers-Okkupation loslösen und ein wirklich bedeutendes Forum werden will, dann schaffen wir das nur gemeinsam.

Verstehe nicht, warum wir dieses Forum einfach auseinanderbrechen sollten. Das konnte mir bislang noch niemand schlüssig erklären (eigentlich war ausser dir auch nur railcity wirklich dafür eingetreten, so weit ich mich entsinnen kann).

Nur vereint wird dieses Forum Gewicht haben!
Genau wir müssen zusammenhalten, sonst werden wir es nie schaffen aus den Euroscrapers auszubrechen!
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Old October 6th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #22
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Vous voyez, c'est justement parce que je ne comprends rien à ce qui se discute aujourd'hui que je demande un forum suisse en français
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Old October 6th, 2008, 11:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
Genau wir müssen zusammenhalten, sonst werden wir es nie schaffen aus den Euroscrapers auszubrechen!
Okay, sorry Erbse, das macht irgendwie auch Sinn, gebe ich zu!
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Old October 7th, 2008, 03:12 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Und damit wären die Probleme, die es anscheinend mit dem Schweizer Forum in der derzeitigen Form gibt, allesamt aus der Welt.
No. But in order to understand this you first need to read that statements of me and other users who don't have your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Wenn die UIG-Gemeinde sich aber jemals von der Euroscrapers-Okkupation loslösen und ein wirklich bedeutendes Forum werden will, dann schaffen wir das nur gemeinsam.
Sorry, but a really important forum needs to be English-speaking anyway. For a purely German-speaking forum, it doesn't really matter where it is placed on the index page, as long as it is visible. No matter how big you highlight it - it will be always restricted to the small number of German speakers.

So, where is the value for the Switzerland forum?

We would restrict ourselves to German speakers only. I really don't understand how we can write about our cities like Basel, Geneva or Zurich being soooo international and cool - but then some are not even ready to invite english-speaking guests to our forum???

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
(eigentlich war ausser dir auch nur railcity wirklich dafür eingetreten, so weit ich mich entsinnen kann).
erbsenzähler, once again, this is not serious. from a moderator I expect the ability to discuss and not just to ignore everything you don't want to hear.

Here the overview so far.....

pro independent forum under Euroscrapers:
- el tico
- ipioe
- raggaman
- Tony Resta
- cybec
- Jlokym
- railcity
- küsel (?)

many undecided/flexible users like basel_ch, lausanne....

contra independent forum:
- steve5
- sämelihülz
- erbsenzähler

And this even though we are discussing here in UiG itself and many interested users of an independent Switzerland forum are not around here right now. I suggest we (Küsel?) could make a research among Euroscraper users.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 03:19 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lausanne View Post
Vous voyez, c'est justement parce que je ne comprends rien à ce qui se discute aujourd'hui que je demande un forum suisse en français
sorry, erbsenzaehler is always returning to German - but he is not Swiss

do you understand the English parts?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #26
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Vielleicht sollten wir hier mal einen Poll starten, bevor wir bei den Europäern nachhaken. Für die Admins spielts anscheinend keine Rolle, die würden uns auch ein unabhängiges Forum geben, bei dem alle Sprachen vertreten sind...
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #27
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Ich möchte jetzt von euch wissen, was findet ihr besser:

1. Möglichkeit:

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
Nordic & Baltic Forum | Germany | Austria | Switzerland | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

2. Möglichkeit:

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
» Nordic & Baltic Forum | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

UK & Ireland Architecture Forums (105 Viewing)
» Projects and Construction | London | Manchester | Birmingham | Liverpool | Leeds | Glasgow | Sheffield | Transport and Infrastructure | Cultural and Sporting Venues | Skylines and Photography

Forum Gratte-ciel Francophone (40 Viewing)
» Paris | Lyon | Marseille | Toulouse | Lille

Forum in German
» Deutschland | Österreich | Schweiz
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
Ich möchte jetzt von euch wissen, was findet ihr besser:
Concerning Switzerland -> Euroscrapers.

Concerning Germany -> I have nothing against it, if they want to have similar status like Francophone which would actually mean:

Forum Gratte-ciel Francophone (40 Viewing)
» Paris | Lyon | Marseille | Toulouse | Lille

Forum in German
» Nord | Ost | Süd | Mitte | West


The Francophone forum doesn't have countries like Switzerland, Belgium or Canada as subforums, but regions in France.

And it would be still possible to discuss also about Swiss projects in "Die weite Welt" or "Monde" for those who like to hang around in these forums. But there would be one central place for Switzerland-discussions in Euroscrapers.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:33 AM   #29
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Ganz gewiss Möglichkeit 1! Das Problem wird bei den Österreichern sein, dass sie jetzt schon kleiner sind als das Schweizer Forum, nicht mal ne Skybar erhalten haben und keine zusätzlichen Kräfte mehr mobilisieren können. Wir Schweizer hingegen können meiner Meinung nach gut autark überleben, wenn wir nun auch die Franko- und Italophonen mobilisieren können. Unser Forum würde natürlich wachsen, das Deutsche ev. etwas schrumpfen und die Österreicher stagnieren...

Trotzdem, bin nach wie vor für ein eigenständiges, vielsprachiges und weltoffenes Forum Helveticum
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Küsel View Post
Vielleicht sollten wir hier mal einen Poll starten, bevor wir bei den Europäern nachhaken. Für die Admins spielts anscheinend keine Rolle, die würden uns auch ein unabhängiges Forum geben, bei dem alle Sprachen vertreten sind...
Great! Küsel says that it's okay with the admins to create a multilingual independent Switzerland forum. So, it's up to us to decide.

Concerning a poll: it should be concrete suggestions which leave no room for speculation. I mean, the details should be clear for everyone. There can be one suggestion or two, or three.

We should post these suggestions here in "Neustruktur" in order to clarify them ("how will it work?" "where would it be possible to discuss/post XY?") etc.

Once the suggestions are clear, we can make (a) poll(s).

So, here is the suggestion A once more:

- "Switzerland" title is put under Euroscrapers section
- the subforums and threads of the Urban in German "Schweiz" subforum are moved to this title
- Arc Lémanique subforum is created in this independent Switzerland forum
- threads on projects are in the local language of the place where it is built + English
- threads on regions can be language-specific (French, Italian, German)
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:20 AM   #31
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First clarification.

What I mean with projects in local language + English: everyone is free to post in any of these two languages. So, it doesn't mean that posts need to be in two languages.

If somebody doesn't understand the local language he can use a translation program or ask for clarification.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:29 AM   #32
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Bei Möglichkeit 2 würde man uns halt schneller finden, und ohne uns und Österreich hat Deutschland viel weniger Chancen, in die European Forums zu kommen und wir überhaupt keine. Ich finde das einfach nicht in Ordnung, dass kleine Länder wie Holland und Portugal, die kaum grösser sind als die Schweiz dabei sind, während das nach Russland grösste Land Europas sich in den Euroscrapers verstecken muss. Für das Wachstum des Schweizer Forums wäre auf jeden Fall Möglichkeit 2 besser.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:48 AM   #33
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Bei Möglichkeit 2 würde man uns halt schneller finden
No. Euroscrapers is on the top. It's quicker to find. Plus many non German-speakers will not be familiar with the German term "Schweiz" and even if they are, they will not go into a German-speaking forum.

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Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
und ohne uns und Österreich hat Deutschland viel weniger Chancen, in die European Forums zu kommen
Really? Suddenly we are sooo important for them? The Switzerland and Austria part doesn't make the Germany part substantially bigger. If they don't manage, it has nothing to do with us. Maybe it would be even better to be structured like the Francophone forum to get in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
und wir überhaupt keine.
Ehm. We would anyway not be a European Forum! In your suggestion Schweiz would stay a subforum in the German section. Additionally, it would be a subforum way down on the list in the German section. Not on the top among Euroscraper countries. The position is clearly worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
Ich finde das einfach nicht in Ordnung, dass kleine Länder wie Holland und Portugal, die kaum grösser sind als die Schweiz dabei sind, während das nach Russland grösste Land Europas sich in den Euroscrapers verstecken muss.
Sure. But that's another issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
Für das Wachstum des Schweizer Forums wäre auf jeden Fall Möglichkeit 2 besser.
Which growth? All german speaking users are already here. Whom do you expect additionally?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #34
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Which growth? All german speaking users are already here. Whom do you expect additionally?
Klar haben alle Mitglieder aus der Schweiz auch das Schweizer Forum gefunden. Im Gegensatz zu dir habe ich es übrigens sofort gefunden. Aber die Schweiz hat 7.5 Millionen Einwohner und nur etwa 30-40 davon sind Mitglied bei SSC.

Anscheinend schaust du eine Internetseite immer von oben nach unten an, dass du der Meinung bist, bei Möglichkeit 1 findet man uns schneller. Ich schaue jeweils das zuerst an, was hervorgehoben ist.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:08 PM   #35
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ohne die Schweiz GIBT es diese Konstellation nicht mehr:

Forum in German
» Deutschland | Österreich | Schweiz


in der Schweiz sprechen ca. 2/3 deutsch ... und wenn die Schweiz sich aus dem derzeitigen "URban in German" verabschiedet, hat das UIG so in der Form keine Daseinsberechtigung, da es 1.) nicht mehr stimmt 2.) nicht komplett und somit nonsense ist


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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
Anscheinend schaust du eine Internetseite immer von oben nach unten an, dass du der Meinung bist, bei Möglichkeit 1 findet man uns schneller. Ich schaue jeweils das zuerst an, was hervorgehoben ist.
In which way is "Lille" (Francophone) more highlightet than "Belgium" (Euroscrapers)?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/index.php

In your suggestion, we would be in the position of Lille.

It's not logical for a country to be in the German section. Switzerland is in Europe, not in Germany.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #37
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in der Schweiz sprechen ca. 2/3 deutsch ... und wenn die Schweiz sich aus dem derzeitigen "URban in German" verabschiedet, hat das so in der Form keine Daseinsberechtigung, da es 1.) nicht mehr stimmt 2.) nicht komplett und somit nonsense ist
Why? 2/3 of the population of Algeria are french-speaking.

Is the Francophone forum now nonsense because Algeria has an independent forum under Middle East & Africa?

Once more, here the Francophone forum:

Forum Gratte-ciel Francophone (51 Viewing)
» Paris | Lyon | Marseille | Toulouse | Lille

No Belgium! No Switzerland! No Canada! No Algeria!...

nonsense?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:34 PM   #38
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In which way is "Lille" (Francophone) more highlightet than "Belgium" (Euroscrapers)?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/index.php

In your suggestion, we would be in the position of Lille.
If you are looking for Lille you are looking at first for France and if you are looking for Brussels you are looking at first for Belgium, and if you don't know that Belgium is in the Euroscrapers you are going to look for it at first at the European Forums.

Quote:
It's not logical for a country to be in the German section. Switzerland is in Europe, not in Germany.
And what is with UK and Ireland? Same language, same Forum!
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Old October 7th, 2008, 12:39 PM   #39
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Man könnte es auch so machen:

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
» Nordic & Baltic Forum | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

UK & Ireland Architecture Forums (105 Viewing)
» Projects and Construction | London | Manchester | Birmingham | Liverpool | Leeds | Glasgow | Sheffield | Transport and Infrastructure | Cultural and Sporting Venues | Skylines and Photography

Forum Gratte-ciel Francophone (40 Viewing)
» Paris | Lyon | Marseille | Toulouse | Lille

Forum in German
» Deutschland | Österreich | Schweiz | Berlin | Hamburg | München | Frankfurt | Wien | Zürich | Basel
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Old October 7th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #40
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How about this:

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
» Nordic & Baltic Forum | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

UK & Ireland Architecture Forums (105 Viewing)
» Projects and Construction | London | Manchester | Birmingham | Liverpool | Leeds | Glasgow | Sheffield | Transport and Infrastructure | Cultural and Sporting Venues | Skylines and Photography

Forum Gratte-ciel Francophone (40 Viewing)
» Paris | Lyon | Marseille | Toulouse | Lille

German, Swiss & Austrian Architecture Forums
»Deutschland | Österreich | Schweiz | Wunderbar | Berlin | Hamburg | München | Frankfurt | Wien | Zürich | Basel | Romandie

Ich würde eher Romandie machen als Arc lémanique, damit der Jura, und das Wallius auch dabei wären.

un sous-forum Romandie serait plus avantageux que Arc lémanique, comme ca toute la suisse Romande est la dedans, et pas juste Geneve, Lausanne et Martigny...
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