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Old October 7th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sämelihülz View Post
How about this:

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» Nordic & Baltic Forum | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

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German, Swiss & Austrian Architecture Forums
»Deutschland | Österreich | Schweiz | Wunderbar | Berlin | Hamburg | München | Frankfurt | Wien | Zürich | Basel | Romandie

Ich würde eher Romandie machen als Arc lémanique, damit der Jura, und das Wallius auch dabei wären.

un sous-forum Romandie serait plus avantageux que Arc lémanique, comme ca toute la suisse Romande est la dedans, et pas juste Geneve, Lausanne et Martigny...
Romandie sagt man aber nur bei uns, auf französisch heisst es "La Suisse romande", so sollten wir es nennen.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 04:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve5 View Post

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
Nordic & Baltic Forum | Germany | Austria | Switzerland | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski
This is exactly what I would suggest for an independent Swiss forum.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #43
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Bevor german/swiss/austria auf die Hauptseite kommt fehlen aber noch 100000 posts. Moechte mich aber nicht einmischen.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 05:00 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by steve5 View Post
And what is with UK and Ireland? Same language, same Forum!
There is only a small tiny problem: Germany and Switzerland don't have the same language. It's disappointing how one just can ignore that.

Plus the British Isles are politically and geographically really strongly related to eachother. Whereas Switzerland is a country in central Europe open in all directions.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by sämelihülz View Post
Ich würde eher Romandie machen als Arc lémanique, damit der Jura, und das Wallius auch dabei wären.

un sous-forum Romandie serait plus avantageux que Arc lémanique, comme ca toute la suisse Romande est la dedans, et pas juste Geneve, Lausanne et Martigny...
And what about the Oberwallis?

And Bern? And Graubünden?

We should be using the same criteria for all the subforums. Right now the criteria are the metropolitan regions and everything else is in the general part. It makes a lot of sense. Architecture and space development are influenced by infrastructures - not by language, religion or race.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 05:30 PM   #46
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Ich finde den Vorschlag von sämelihülz gut.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #47
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Vielen Dank erstmal für euren konstruktiven Input.


Folgendes:

You still didn't get the point of my suggestions (esp. railcity). If we have a combined "Germany - Austria - Switzerland" forum in the Euroscrapers, it gets a whole lot more attention than splitted forums for each country.

It doesn't change anything in the structure of the Swiss forum if it's separated from UIG. You can still have as many subforums for any region or language you wish. It'd be just one click more to get from the main combined forum to the actual Swiss one. You can structure and organize this Swiss forum however you want to. What's the difference if you have a standalone forum? There's none. Just none.

The troika of Germany, Switzerland and Austria is and always will be way more powerful than they would as mavericks, standing all alone.

And it'd even be more international this way. Just consider: If some people from all around the world actually are interested in a German project, they're going to visit the united Germany-Switzerland-Austria forum. So they're going to look for the German project and discuss it there.
But thereafter, they may take a look at the Swiss or Austrian section while they're at it - it's just way more obvious and attractive to do this as if you'd have to visit a singular forum.
So you'll encounter more international visitors this way, instead of being home-alone with some Eidgenossen.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 06:49 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by railcity View Post
Sorry, but a really important forum needs to be English-speaking anyway.
Don't be ridiculous now

The Polish forum is the biggest single forum of SSC. And they don't even lose a single English word there, only if someone demands it in an English speaking thread.
Same goes for the French/Francophone forum, the Spanish or the Dutch forum. People don't speak English there - and they're far from being insignificant because of this.

Don't attempt to be another victim of this dimwitted "English = International"-temptation. That's just plain wrong. Switzerland has a strong cultural and historical identity, even if it's so diverse for such a small country. Since you've always been neutral in most regards, you shouldn't let yourself get impressed by this Anglo-Saxon imperialism. Be strong, be Swiss!

Of course you could have an English subsection. But how many of you guys would actually want to speak English all day long - in a Swiss forum, nota bene?

If I may remind you: We've got International Forums on SSC. Those are the place to discuss your projects with the international audience. And not the national forums. Those are for the people living in these countries, discussing their own stuff. But of course foreign people are always welcome there - a special subsection still is more than enough for this evanescent amount of people.
And if somebody's goin to ask something in a German, French or whatever thread, you're going to answer it in English right away, eh.

Another reminder: You already have international threads for Swiss cities! There also are some Swiss highrise projects already covered. And I don't see a single project or any other kinda share you contributed there, railcity. You seem like a hypocrite to me. Sorry, if that's a wrong assumption - you may disabuse me in this regard.

Most of you guys just don't take (enough) care of your international/public appearance around SSC. So why do you even complain?
Germany is well recognized around here, due to many contributions in project threads, photo threads, architecture and sport threads and so on.

If you wanna be recognized, you have to demonstrate presence.
You won't attract a lot more attention if you just have a separated forum with some über-innovative regional language sections. Don't let you fool by your feigned discretion in this regard.

You reach a whole lot more people at international forums, in the end. Nearly nobody's going to visit the Swiss forum just for the sake of it. No foreigners, at least.



I already included anything to say regarding your following posts in my response.

If there's anything you guys didn't get, feel free to dig deeper.



Ich habe fertig.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:35 PM   #49
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Que?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post


The troika of Germany, Switzerland and Austria is and always will be way more powerful than they would as mavericks, standing all alone..
That's typically a german speaking point of view because for the french speaking people there is another troika : France - Belgium and Switzerland because they are the only 3 european countries who speak french.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #51
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So what? I'm all for linguistic freedom. But how to establish such a trio?
It's not like you couldn't discuss in French, Italian or whatever you want in a united forum. You can even have standalone sections for those. I think that point clearly emanated from my lines - so please, not again all the stuff we've gone through.


Would be nice to get some input regarding my foregone long post, railcity.
(The other Swiss should participate as well, of course!)
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #52
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I vote for this alternative :

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
Nordic & Baltic Forum | Germany | Austria | Switzerland | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

But I would like to divide the Swiss forum in 3 or 4 sub-sections only based on the languages
1) deutsch
2) français
3) itialiano
4) english

And only after this language division

1a Zürich
1b Basel
1c Romandie
1d Swiss Lounge, etc... in each of the languages sub-divisions

My proposition is not to create a section Romandie, for example, where we could only speak in french or english but that all of these geographic sections are present in each language.
So we could find discussions about Zurich in german in the german speaking section but also in french in the french speaking section. Subjects about this region could be different according to the language section. Or even translated by someone from one section to another.

Do you see what I mean ?

And I totally agree with the poposition to create a "Romandie" section instead of a "Arc lémanique" section because Fribourg, Wallis, Neuchâtel und Jura must be included.

About the term "Romandie", there's no problem about this denomination in french. We use Romandie as well as Suisse romande.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:53 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
You still didn't get the point of my suggestions (esp. railcity). If we have a combined "Germany - Austria - Switzerland" forum in the Euroscrapers, it gets a whole lot more attention than splitted forums for each country.
That's your point of view. We explained in our posts why we think it's the other way round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
It'd be just one click more to get from the main combined forum to the actual Swiss one.
Yes, exactly. And that's one of the negative points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
What's the difference if you have a standalone forum? There's none. Just none.
There are at least 11:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...6&postcount=50

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
The troika of Germany, Switzerland and Austria is and always will be way more powerful than they would as mavericks, standing all alone.
Like Lausanne says, this is a German point of view. And in the Euroscraper forum we're more than just 3. That's even more powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
And it'd even be more international this way. Just consider: If some people from all around the world actually are interested in a German project, they're going to visit the united Germany-Switzerland-Austria forum. So they're going to look for the German project and discuss it there.
But thereafter, they may take a look at the Swiss or Austrian section while they're at it - it's just way more obvious and attractive to do this as if you'd have to visit a singular forum.
For the first time something like a real argument from your side. But not convincing enough for me.

1) There are more people switching between Euroscraper forums.
2) It would be again restricted to German-speaking people which is a really small number of internationals and
3) evidence of the last months has shown it doesn't work - there have been veeery seldom international visitors - only in the last days, when we started to discuss about an independent Switzerland forum, it has started to peak up a bit
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Old October 7th, 2008, 09:57 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lausanne View Post
I vote for this alternative :

Euroscrapers (343 Viewing)
Nordic & Baltic Forum | Germany | Austria | Switzerland | Belarus | Ukraine | Belgium | Turkey | Hellenic Agora | Serbian | Bulgaria | Romania | Slovakia | Czech Republic | Albanian | Hungary | Slovenia | Croatia | Bosnia and Herzegovina | Makedonski

But I would like to divide the Swiss forum in 3 or 4 sub-sections only based on the languages
1) deutsch
2) français
3) itialiano
4) english

And only after this language division

1a Zürich
1b Basel
1c Romandie
1d Swiss Lounge, etc... in each of the languages sub-divisions
Okay, so this would be suggestion B.

But of course only concerning Switzerland. If Germany and Austria want to have these titles in Euroscrapers is their own issue.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 10:50 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lausanne View Post
But I would like to divide the Swiss forum in 3 or 4 sub-sections only based on the languages
1) deutsch
2) français
3) itialiano
4) english

And only after this language division

1a Zürich
1b Basel
1c Romandie
1d Swiss Lounge, etc... in each of the languages sub-divisions
Sorry, but that's not realistic:
  1. There are not enough participants for the Italian-speaking and the English-speaking subforums. Not unless skyscrapercity.com points directly to the Swiss forums.
  2. Information would be separated by language which will divide the the flow of guests to their respective mother tongue. Imagine all the English-speaking visitors just visiting the English subforum and leaving after 30 seconds with the impression that there's nothing interesting going on in Switzerland due to the lack of translated sources and comments. And no: I don't think there are enough members willing to translate most of the material.
  3. Everyone is free to post in his or her own language. Experience shows that this works. The removal of the "Urban in German" forum title will no longer stop the non-German-speaking people coming in and encourage them to post here. Anyway: Thanks to our education system everyone should be able to at least understand the key statements of a text in at least one of the other subforums. If translation programs fail or if there's a rendered article you are still free to ask for clarification.
Please tell me if you don't agree.

Therefor, I'm in favour a Germany, Switzerland & Austria subforum. The Francophone forum should be renamed accordingly though. This way la Suisse Romande wouldn't be in the wrong forum and visitors wouldn't spot a forum claiming to be the only French-speaking part of the European section.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Don't be ridiculous now

The Polish forum is the biggest single forum of SSC. And they don't even lose a single English word there, only if someone demands it in an English speaking thread.
Same goes for the French/Francophone forum, the Spanish or the Dutch forum. People don't speak English there - and they're far from being insignificant because of this.
Well, these forums are nationally significant, but for sure not internationally. I do understand most of what is written in Polish, but I'm clearly part of a minority there among the foreigners.

And that they don't lose a single English word there, is not really true.

And as I said: the majority of country forums are bilingual (mostly including English).

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Don't attempt to be another victim of this dimwitted "English = International"-temptation. That's just plain wrong. Switzerland has a strong cultural and historical identity, even if it's so diverse for such a small country. Since you've always been neutral in most regards, you shouldn't let yourself get impressed by this Anglo-Saxon imperialism. Be strong, be Swiss!
Sorry, but this really makes me laugh. First you say "Swiss are 100% germanic - no discussion" and then you complain about "Anglo-Saxon imperialism" and you want to explain us the cultural and historical identity of Switzerland...

It's true that international is way more than English, but English is the common denominator. For sure not German.

"Be strong - be Swiss" can actually only mean you support the Swiss forum independent from the "imperialistic" German one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Of course you could have an English subsection. But how many of you guys would actually want to speak English all day long - in a Swiss forum, nota bene?
Me, no problem. As I said, this is not uncommon in Switzerland. I have experienced it in several companies and organisations that people are speaking English witheachother within Switzerland on a national level. English is the new Latin. It happens often to me that I remember a certain word only in English and have to check up in the dictionary the German translation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
And if somebody's goin to ask something in a German, French or whatever thread, you're going to answer it in English right away, eh.
Sure, we do that always already now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
If I may remind you: We've got International Forums on SSC. Those are the place to discuss your projects with the international audience. And not the national forums. Those are for the people living in these countries, discussing their own stuff.

Most of you guys just don't take (enough) care of your international/public appearance around SSC. So why do you even complain?
Germany is well recognized around here, due to many contributions in project threads, photo threads, architecture and sport threads and so on.

If you wanna be recognized, you have to demonstrate presence.
You won't attract a lot more attention if you just have a separated forum with some über-innovative regional language sections.

You reach a whole lot more people at international forums, in the end.
Don't worry, Switzerland is represented well enough in international forums, considering that we don't really have building activities like Dubai.

And it's not about recognition, it's rather about interesting discussions, feedbacks, inputs etc. from around the globe. And least from my point of view.

The SSC is basically like a matrix. It's about issues and places. The international forums focus on issues and feature/compare various places. The country forums focus on a certain place featuring/comparing various issues.

Both have their strengths. It's good to feature a certain issue internationally, but it cannot replace the overview on a certain place in ONE CENTRAL FORUM that a country forum can provide.

In the international forums you can discuss only some highlights and the threads are on the 2nd page within 1 or 2 days. It cannot replace a central discussion point for everyone globally who is interested in the country's projects in general.

If we want to discuss only with Swiss people we can do this on a .ch-webpage - but this is an international forum.

I am frequently visiting other countries subsections to get an overview of what is going on in the Ukraine or Kazahkstan or Italy for example. Many other users do this as well. So they will visit also Switzerland more, once our forum will be independent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Don't let you fool by your feigned discretion in this regard.

Nearly nobody's going to visit the Swiss forum just for the sake of it. No foreigners, at least.
It shows once again how you really think about Switzerland and the Swiss.


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Another reminder: You already have international threads for Swiss cities! There also are some Swiss highrise projects already covered. And I don't see a single project or any other kinda share you contributed there, railcity. You seem like a hypocrite to me.
Thanks for the compliment. There are waaaay more threads on Swiss issues in international forums. Not only these two, you know.
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:29 PM   #57
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Sollen wir noch wochenlang weiterdiskutieren? Ist es möglich, dass wir jetzt Küsel und Erbse bestimmen lassen, was sich ändern soll und wenn sie sich nicht einigen können machen wir einen Poll und dann zählt das Ergebnis?
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Old October 7th, 2008, 11:50 PM   #58
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I was about to say that in the end it's up to the moderation/administration what's going to happen.

Sorry to desillusionate you railcity, but I don't think your fantasies are about to happen.
Blind actionism is out of place here. A down-to-earth solution is the way to go in this regard.
Ever heard of the saying "Erst mal kleine Brötchen backen"?


Once again: Ich lieben Schwiiz. Was auch immer du mir unterstellen magst, rail. Wirkst fast etwas paranoid. Wie wärs mit einer kleinen Seeluftkur hier oben auf Usedom? Ich lad dich auch ein
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Old October 8th, 2008, 12:13 AM   #59
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Heieiei, zuviel Blablabla hier!

Es gibt Wichtigeres zu diskutieren als diese Aufteilung, zum Beispiel mal wieder ...... neue Bauprojekte??!


Ob jetzt das Schweizer Forum alleine ist oder zusammen mit Deutschland und Österreich ist eigentlich egal. Beide Lösungen haben wohl ihre Vor- und Nachteile. Ein separates Schweizer Forum würde zwar noch gut aussehen. Zusammen mit Deutschland und Österreich werden aber evtl. mehr Besucher angelockt, wer weiss...?

Das Einzige was wirklich geändert werden muss, sind die Übertitel "German" oder "Urban in German". Die Titel sollten umbenannt werden in "Germany, Austria & Switzerland" oder so. Denn die Schweiz ist ja, wie hier auch schon hinlänglich diskutiert wurde, bekanntermassen nicht nur deutschsprachig...
Würde dies geändert, dann könnten im Schweizer Forum ein Suisse Romand- und ein Ticino-Unterforum eingerichtet werden. Somit könnten dann auch die Romands und Tessiner in ihrer Sprache hier mitdiskutieren.
In welchen Sprachen im jeweiligen Forum diskutiert wird, sollte man aber auf keinen Fall vorschreiben. Dies wird sich mit der Zeit ganz von alleine einpendeln...

Aber dann hätten wir mal alle Schweizer auf SSC vereint unter einem Dach, wäre doch schön!




Ach ja, auch in einer hitzigen Diskussion sollte man immer ein wenig Ruhe bewahren und respektvoll miteinander umgehen... Solche Nazi-Vergleiche sind ziemlich unangebracht und deplaziert....
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Old October 8th, 2008, 04:27 AM   #60
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Quote:
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I was about to say that in the end it's up to the moderation/administration what's going to happen.

Sorry to desillusionate you railcity, but I don't think your fantasies are about to happen.
The fantasies are rather on your side ("internationally significant german-speaking forum").

We have concrete suggestions and Küsel said that an independent Swiss forum would be fine with the admins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Blind actionism is out of place here. A down-to-earth solution is the way to go in this regard.
An independent Swiss forum is the most down-to-earth solution I can imagine. This idea has been developped over several months through discussions in various threads. The time is ready now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbsenzaehler View Post
Ever heard of the saying "Erst mal kleine Brötchen backen"?
We did that long enough. "Erst mal" was about two years ago.
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