The African Diaspora

[Kwame]

Haitian Independence

The French government changes and the legislature began to rethink its decisions on slavery in the colonies. After Toussaint Louverture created a separatist constitution, Napoleon Bonaparte sent an expedition of 30,000 men under the command of his brother-in-law, General Charles Leclerc, to retake the island.

Painting of Toussaint Louverture

Bonaparte was influenced by Creole planters and traders. Leclerc's mission was to oust Louverture and restore slavery. The French achieved some victories. In addition, Leclerc kidnapped Toussaint Louverture and sent him to France, where he was imprisoned at Fort de Joux. He died there of malnutrition and pneumonia.

The native leader Jean-Jacques Dessalines, long an ally of Toussaint Louverture, defeated the French troops led by Donatien-Marie-Joseph de Vimeur, vicomte de Rochambeau at the Battle of Vertières. At the end of the double battle for emancipation and independence, former slaves proclaimed the independence of Saint-Domingue on 1 January 1804, declaring the new nation as Haiti, honoring the original indigenous Taíno name for the island. Haiti was consequently the first country in the Western Hemisphere to abolish slavery.

Painting of Jean-Jacques Dessalines

Dessalines was proclaimed governor for life by his troops. He exiled the remaining whites and ruled as a despot. He was assassinated on 17 October 1806. The country was divided then between a kingdom in the north directed by Henri Christophe, and a republic in the south directed by a gens de couleur Alexandre Pétion. President Jean Pierre Boyer, also a gens de couleur, managed to reunify these two parts and extend control again over the eastern part of the island.

In July 1825, the king of France Charles X sent a fleet of fourteen vessels and troops to reconquer the island. To maintain independence, President Boyer agreed to a treaty by which France recognized the independence of the country in exchange for a payment of 150 million francs (the sum was reduced in 1838 to 90 million francs).

[Daano]

Originally Posted by phantom07

GO AWAY NOW NOONE INVITED YOU HERE , YOUR JUST ANOTHER british BRICK or irish MICK THAT IS UPSET BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS BEING RELIZED , WELL YOU BETTER LIKE IT BECAUSE YOUR DAY OF JUDGEMENT BY AFRICANS IS COMING OBAMA WON HA GET OVER IT WHITE TRASH , BTW I'M INVITING MY FRIENDS TO THIS THREAD AND WHEN BACK UP ARIVES WE WILL SET YOU STRAGHT , LIKE I SAY BEFORE BOY EITHER LIKE IT OR LEAVE !!!!!!!!

[Kwame]

Haitian Culture

The culture of Haiti is one of the most unique in all of the Caribbean, with influences from various difference regions and cultures.

Haitian culture is a mix of primarily African, French, and native Taíno elements. With some lesser influence from the colonial Spanish as well as minor influences from colonial Portuguese. The country's customs essentially are a blend of cultural beliefs that derived from the various ethnic groups that inhabited the island of Hispaniola. In nearly all aspects of modern Haitian society however, the European and African element dominate. Haiti is world famous for its distinctive art, notably painting and sculpture.

Examples of Haitian Culture


(Examples of distinctive Haitian Art by Patrice Piard)


(Rare photograph of a Haitian vodou ritual)


(Famous Haitian dish of Poulet Haitien)


(Haitian metal sculpture)


(Haitians celebrating Kanaval in Port-au-Prince)

More to come....

[Kwame]

Art of Haiti

Brilliant colors, naive perspective and sly humor characterize Haitian art. Big, delectable foods and lush landscapes are favorite subjects in this land of poverty and hunger. Going to market is the most social activity of country life, and figures prominently into the subject matter. Jungle animals, rituals, dances, and gods evoke the African past.


Without a doubt, Haitian Art, especially painting and sculpture, is among the most appreciated in the world. It continues to receive critical acclaim while at the same time enjoying some measure of commercial success. Yet, that success comes with a history of controversy, as Haitian artists, local and western critics have dueled over what form of artistic expression is more authentic and therefore worthy of consideration as characteristic Haitian art.

The Beginnings

While most books on Haitian Arts conveniently begin their history of Haitian Art with the Centre D'Art in 1944, there is however clear evidence of artistic activity dating back to the Pre-Columbian era. The Tainos would make dolls, drawings, signs (maybe the ancestors of the vèvè in vaudou) that represented their deities.

(Taino doll discovered dating back to pre-columbian era)

Archeologists also found sculptures and pots of many kinds that were wonderfully crafted. All this indicates a vibrant artistic life existing as part of everyday life among the Taino.


There exists a record of a former slave called Luc, from Leogane, who, during french colonial times earned a reputation as a painter. In the days after Independence, both Henri Christophe and Alexandre Pétion were patrons of the arts.They regularly entertained European artists, and also founded some art schools at the time. In Christophe's court, foreign and local artists alike found ample commission work.


The main themes were to the glory of the Revolution or the Royal family itself. One of those artists was Numa Desroches (1802-1880) who produced one of the most intriguing paintings of that period. It is a view of Palais Sans Souci with a spatial distribution that reminds one of the naïve paintings of the 20th Century. In the 1840s, the Emperor Soulouque founded an Imperial Academy of the Arts.

(Painting by Numa Desroches of Palais Sana Souci)

Further evidence of artistic activity comes from a photograph dated from c. 1900 that shows a shack adorned with religious paintings. Again the style of the paintings is close to the Primitive Art ("Art naïf") that would become popular from the 1940s. Both paintings show that style of painting is a long tradition in Haiti instead of being the result of the work of any Art School.


In the early 20th Century a giant emerges from the northern town of Cap-Haitien. He was Philomé Obin (b 1892-?) arguably among the top 5 Haitain painters ever. Obin was a self-taught painter whose main themes were scenes of every day life in Cap-Haitien and historic scenes of the Haitian Revolution. In many ways, his work is representative of the spirit of the 20s and 30s when the global negritude movement would see a local manifestation in Haiti with the Indigenist movement.

Indigenism and Modernism

Indigenism meant returning to the African roots and finding new aesthetic values and a natural cultural identity. One of the first painters to respond to the call of the indigenist movement was Petion Savain. His style was realist and simple. Of the artists who were to follow his style, we could note Georges Ramponneau.


Cuban and Caribbean influence were to give rise to the Modernist movement. Modernism was most mostly embraced by the elite. Modernist painters of note included Luce Turnier (1924-1994), Lucien Price (1915-1963) etc. They tried to adapt modern artistic theories to the local environment in the manner of a Wilfredo Lam, the Cuban master.

(Painting by the famous Luce Turnier)

Clearly there is a strong record of artistic activity predating 1940. Haitian artists did not learn how to paint out of the blue, or through the intervention of some foreigners, like some books would, but rather displayed an influence by traditions that go way back and a have a good body of work to show for it.

The Naive Art movement and the Centre d'Art

In the 1940s, Dewitt Peters, an American school teacher arrived in Haiti. Almost immediately he was striken by the raw artistic talent displayed by many untrained and in many cases uneducated painters he would encounter. Those were people who never went to Art School, workers of all trades, who would come home and produce marvels of ingenous art work.

(Painting by the famous Andre Pierre)

In 1944, He founded the Centre d'Art in Port-au-Prince. The Centre d'Art became the champion of the art form that would be known as "Naïve Art", "peinture naïve" or better called "intuitive art". Intuitive painting is characterized by vivid, raw colors, a spatial composition and use of proportions that did not abide by any of the laws of modern aesthetics, but rather revealed spontaneity, freedom of expression and freshness.


That art form would attain notoriety on the world scale, especially with the arrival of co-director Selden Rodman. Selden Rodman rejected modernism, the leading art movement of the time, as being too post-war, too vanguard and therefore too socially inclined. Contrarily to what many manuals wrote, though, neither the Centre D'Art nor Dewitt Peters invented Naïve Art. Nevertheless, they are credited for their efforts in having brought it to the attention of the Western World.

(Painting by Hector Hyppolite)

The primitives of the first generation received worldwide acclaim. Critics and collectors received that movement as "authentic" and "unspoiled". The main heroes of that movement were otherwise common, non artistically trained folk who had great talent. They were André Pierre, Hector Hippolyte (1894-1948), Castera Bazile (1923-66), Wilson Bigaud (b. 1931) and Rigaud Benoit (b. 1911). Vaudou was prominently featured in the works of those artists. Andre Pierre and Hippolyte themselves were vaudou priests.

To be continued.....

[xolang]

Great thread.
Keep up the good work, Crash!
A sincere

[bayviews]

More on the overlooked Afro-Turks.

Turkish Daily News: Sad story of black citizens in Turkey
Turkish Daily News (Ankara, Turkey) - Tuesday, November 4, 2008
Mustafa Olpak, founder of the Africans' Culture and Solidarity Community, has published a book about the sad tale of blacks in Turkey based on stories he has heard firsthand.

Olpak said his grandparents carried the "x" mark of slavery on the back of their shoulders until the day they died. In 1895 most of his tribe were kidnapped from the so-called "slave shores" of Zanzibar, today's Tanzania, and enslaved by the Ottomans, according to Olpak, who made interesting statements relying on documents he holds. The tribe he belongs to is part of the "Kukuris," still present on the slave shores, said Olpak, whose research has followed the trails of his lost tribe to the United States and Brazil.

Olpak, who told his family's tale to the Hurriyet Daily News, said his grandparents lived into their hundreds. He said they were so ashamed of the marks on their backs that they bathed by themselves well into old age, even though they needed help. "That was a sorrow we all felt to our bones," said Olpak. "Black people's exploitation lies at the foundations of rich countries that prate about democracy. As long as the world keeps turning, the spirits of our ancestors shall never leave the white people free."

Olpak collected his story in his book "Kolekiyisi Kenya'dan Istanbul'a" (Slave Shores From Kenya to Istanbul). The book, featuring photographs and documents, has been released by Punto publications and profits will contribute to the search of black Turkish residents' lost family members. In conjunction with the book's release, a photography exhibition called "Turkiye'nin Siyahlari" (The Blacks of Turkey) is open to visitors at Tutun Deposu at Tophane in Istanbul through until Nov. 9.

US connection

Olpak has an interesting claim about U. S. presidential candidate Barack Obama: he says they are distant relatives. Centuries ago, Obama's family was also kidnapped and brought to the United States, according to Olpak.

"Obama sent me his books with love and greetings through his consultants," said Olpak, adding that last year he was visited by 12 professors from Kentucky University, two of them being close consultants to Obama.

Community works for missing people

Olpak presented information, based on data from UNESCO, showing that in the last century more than 50 million black people were enslaved. "It is possible today to buy a child for $10 in the hinterlands of India and Sudan," said Olpak, adding that there is still a rush of applications to the Africans' Culture and Solidarity Community for help in finding missing family members.

Olpak founded the community in 2006 in Alanya, in Turkey's Aegean region, because the Crete Island nearby was the center of the Ottoman slave trade and some of his family members were sold there after being kidnapped. In 1923, his family snuck onto ships coming from Turkey and escaped from Crete to Ayvalik during the population exchange, executed according to the Treaty of Lausanne.

Last year, the community's building was lost in a tragic fire. Olpak said he carried whatever documents concerning the missing people he could save from the fire with him.

"Until I am able to buy a new building, I will carry these documents with me, as apart of myself," he said.

Olpak is carrying out research for families of missing people but is unable to go back further than two generations.

"I checked the Ayvalik Birth Registration Office for information on my family register but there's nothing beyond my grandfather," said Olpak, explaining that slaves were not considered human during the Ottoman era, so no records were kept on them.

Modern world cannot erase the marks on my soul'

Olpak told how he had hard times during school because of his skin color. His friends would yell "Arab" as he passed by and sing demeaning nursery rhymes about him. Olpak said he believed slavery would be over by the end of the fourth generation and he witnessed the first generation's suffering firsthand because he grew up with them

[Gfranc]

Ahem......I see CIMMERIAN is also here as well.....good.


Don't know if any Haitians have come here to speak for themselves as many Non-haitians have a discussion about a ethnic group that is quite frankly a HUGE generalization of things learned by the internet, thus, I will take the time to present a Haitian (as I am Haitian) point of view on this little issue here concerning Haiti.

This nonsense that Haitians are discriminating Dominicans or that there is a retaliatory attitude that goes back and forth is simply imagination on those seeking for an explanation they can't figure out.

If you notice by many......once a topic enters the mistreatment of Haitian- Dominicans in the Domincan Republic one tries to go back close to 2 centuries to justify such responses.

Originally Posted by CIMMERIAN

But the chapter that everyone forgets about when romanticizing Haiti is that they then turned around and invaded/occupied another colony (Santo Domingo) and then invaded it several times when that young republic was trying to gaing it's independence. You will not read about this in school.

There are about 30,000 Dominicans living in Haiti as we speak......have you heard any mistreatment or any Dominicans people targeted or hated because they are mulatto? No you haven't.

Many simply go back in History to justify something they can't.......

Originally Posted by Alex Roney

The occupying Haitian forces lived off the land in Santo Domingo, commandeering or confiscating what they needed to perform their duties or to fill their stomachs. Dominicans saw this as tribute demanded by petty conquerors, or as simple theft. Racial animosities also affected attitudes on both sides; black Haitian troops reacted with reflexive resentment against lighter-skinned Dominicans, while Dominicans came to associate the Haitians' dark skin with the oppression and the abuses of occupation.

Religious and cultural life also suffered under the Haitian occupation. The Haitians, who associated the Roman Catholic Church with the French colonists who had so cruelly exploited and abused them before independence, confiscated all church property in the east, deported all foreign clergy, and severed the ties of the remaining clergy to the Vatican. For Dominicans, who were much more strongly Roman Catholic and less oriented toward folk religion than the Haitians, such actions seemed insulting and nihilistic. In addition, upper-class Haitians considered French culture superior to Spanish culture, while Haitian soldiers and others from the lower class simply disregarded Hispanic mores and customs.

Complete NONSENSE, my friend. Again your discussing something you have NO IDEA about.......reading internet links do not mean you have solved the mystery. Black Haitians troops treated light skinned Dominicans with resentment? What?


In any case, we, Haitians, know our history very well........simply because our history books do not carry some events (we do have a lot to cover if you didn't know)...DO NOT mean haitians do not know what occurred.

Originally Posted by Crash2010

Dessalines was proclaimed governor for life by his troops. He exiled the remaining whites and ruled as a despot. He was assassinated on 17 October 1806. The country was divided then between a kingdom in the north directed by Henri Christophe, and a republic in the south directed by a gens de couleur Alexandre Pétion. President Jean Pierre Boyer, also a gens de couleur, managed to reunify these two parts and extend control again over the eastern part of the island.

Dessalines was NEVER proclaimed governor for life by the Haitian army.....that is false, He was proclaimed an elective Emperor.

Second, we have no influences from Portugal......

Haiti is a mixture of 110 african ethnic groups that were imported by France.....From the Bijago group from the islands of Guinea Bissau (which we have a secret society called Bizango), to Bambara, Mandigue, Bakongo, Sudanese, Sengelese, Beninese, Mayombe, Ajas, Fulanis, Nagos, Angolan, and more and more......

As well has Germans, Italians, French, Lebanese, Palestinians, Americans, Cubans, Dominicans, etc....


I also need to take the time to inform people with a huge romanticism about haiti, mosty notably afro-centrists who seek anything for their own agenda. The Haitian revolution was a great accomplishment...but there are MANY, MANY, things that occurred AFTERWARD to understand Haiti and Haitians. Many people create all these fake stories and get all the information wrong because there is a black accomplishment in history and embellish in it with all type of nonsense.

Take the time to read more about Haiti and haitians instead of knowing about our revolution only......you will be surprise how deep our culture is as well as the BS we have to go through with everyone else due to the shallowness that a rich nation suddenly make one better than the other.


EPI DATS DAT

[CIMMERIAN]

Originally Posted by Gfranc

Ahem......I see CIMMERIAN is also here as well.....good.


Don't know if any Haitians have come here to speak for themselves as many Non-haitians have a discussion about a ethnic group that is quite frankly a HUGE generalization of things learned by the internet, thus, I will take the time to present a Haitian (as I am Haitian) point of view on this little issue here concerning Haiti.

This nonsense that Haitians are discriminating Dominicans or that there is a retaliatory attitude that goes back and forth is simply imagination on those seeking for an explanation they can't figure out.

If you notice by many......once a topic enters the mistreatment of Haitian- Dominicans in the Domincan Republic one tries to go back close to 2 centuries to justify such responses.



There are about 30,000 Dominicans living in Haiti as we speak......have you heard any mistreatment or any Dominicans people targeted or hated because they are mulatto? No you haven't.

Many simply go back in History to justify something they can't.......





Complete NONSENSE, my friend. Again your discussing something you have NO IDEA about.......reading internet links do not mean you have solved the mystery. Black Haitians troops treated light skinned Dominicans with resentment? What?


In any case, we, Haitians, know our history very well........simply because our history books do not carry some events (we do have a lot to cover if you didn't know)...DO NOT mean haitians do not know what occurred.





Dessalines was NEVER proclaimed governor for life by the Haitian army.....that is false, He was proclaimed an elective Emperor.

Second, we have no influences from Portugal......

Haiti is a mixture of 110 african ethnic groups that were imported by France.....From the Bijago group from the islands of Guinea Bissau (which we have a secret society called Bizango), to Bambara, Mandigue, Bakongo, Sudanese, Sengelese, Beninese, Mayombe, Ajas, Fulanis, Nagos, Angolan, and more and more......

As well has Germans, Italians, French, Lebanese, Palestinians, Americans, Cubans, Dominicans, etc....


I also need to take the time to inform people with a huge romanticism about haiti, mosty notably afro-centrists who seek anything for their own agenda. The Haitian revolution was a great accomplishment...but there are MANY, MANY, things that occurred AFTERWARD to understand Haiti and Haitians. Many people create all these fake stories and get all the information wrong because there is a black accomplishment in history and embellish in it with all type of nonsense.

Take the time to read more about Haiti and haitians instead of knowing about our revolution only......you will be surprise how deep our culture is as well as the BS we have to go through with everyone else due to the shallowness that a rich nation suddenly make one better than the other.


EPI DATS DAT

There is no mistreatment of Dominicans in Haiti, I personally know so and have never read anything that implies there is. And no where do I justify mistreatment of the Haitian immigrants in DR, or immigrants anywhere for that matter. Read carefully and you will see these are strawmen arguments from a poster who simply does not know enough about the subject.

I 100% co-sign the highlighted part, my experience online has been that many afro-centric ideaologues (all non-Haitian) use Haiti as part of their anti-Dominican agenda.

[Kwame]

Originally Posted by Gfranc

Dessalines was NEVER proclaimed governor for life by the Haitian army.....that is false, He was proclaimed an elective Emperor.

Second, we have no influences from Portugal......

Haiti is a mixture of 110 african ethnic groups that were imported by France.....From the Bijago group from the islands of Guinea Bissau (which we have a secret society called Bizango), to Bambara, Mandigue, Bakongo, Sudanese, Sengelese, Beninese, Mayombe, Ajas, Fulanis, Nagos, Angolan, and more and more......

As well has Germans, Italians, French, Lebanese, Palestinians, Americans, Cubans, Dominicans, etc....


I also need to take the time to inform people with a huge romanticism about haiti, mosty notably afro-centrists who seek anything for their own agenda. The Haitian revolution was a great accomplishment...but there are MANY, MANY, things that occurred AFTERWARD to understand Haiti and Haitians. Many people create all these fake stories and get all the information wrong because there is a black accomplishment in history and embellish in it with all type of nonsense.

Take the time to read more about Haiti and haitians instead of knowing about our revolution only......you will be surprise how deep our culture is as well as the BS we have to go through with everyone else due to the shallowness that a rich nation suddenly make one better than the other.


EPI DATS DAT

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

But, instead of telling me how to spend my time, why don't you go ahead and take the initiative to put this information where I found it, so no one else will repeat the same mistakes I have. Thanks again for pointing out these errors.

[Tbite]

These people in Cuba probably know more about the Yoruba religion than most Yoruba people in Nigeria.

[Gfranc]

Originally Posted by Crash2010

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

But, instead of telling me how to spend my time, why don't you go ahead and take the initiative to put this information where I found it, so no one else will repeat the same mistakes I have. Thanks again for pointing out these errors.

I don't care for Wikipedia nor have the energy to deal with its complete broken formula that it proposes....there are enough resources to get viable information on Haiti if one leave the internet and learn the old way.

Originally Posted by Alex Roney

The discrimination goes both ways, you think Haitians don't hate or discriminate against Dominicans? Haiti were the 2nd colonizers to Santo Domingo, ravaged their people and try to destroy their culture. I just find it hypocritical that people talk of discrimination and racism as its a one way street. Their is a lot of it on the West side of Hispanola, only because their is a romanticized image of a slave inspired rebellion for freedom shouldn't clout the hypocrisy of such a mantra just a few years after independence.

But I respect your opinion.

This is the nonsense that I am referring to.......in which baseless comments are presented to make a point. I will ask Member Alex Roney again.....there are 30,000 Dominicans living in Haiti....where have you heard of their discrimination in Haiti? Where is the retaliation? What back and forth are you referring to?

In another note, black people in the Americas are genetically and culturally not in sync with Africa anymore. Simply playing the drums and dancing DO NOT make for a "African" culture......that's an insult to any African whose cultural heritage have been minimized by new world blacks who are desperate to find an identity.

[Alex Roney]

Originally Posted by Gfranc

I don't care for Wikipedia nor have the energy to deal with its complete broken formula that it proposes....there are enough resources to get viable information on Haiti if one leave the internet and learn the old way.






This is the nonsense that I am referring to.......in which baseless comments are presented to make a point. I will ask Member Alex Roney again.....there are 30,000 Dominicans living in Haiti....where have you heard of their discrimination in Haiti? Where is the retaliation? What back and forth are you referring to?

In another note, black people in the Americas are genetically and culturally not in sync with Africa anymore. Simply playing the drums and dancing DO NOT make for a "African" culture......that's an insult to any African whose cultural heritage have been minimized by new world blacks who are desperate to find an identity.

You can't compare the treatment of a community that only numbers 30,000 in a country of 8 million. Minority groups that often get discriminated against are larger ones that tend to pose a perceived threat to locals in a given region, area or country. To say that Haitians are tolerant beings and Dominicans raging bigots I find to be a rather biased claim.

It's a known fact that Haiti's rule over the Dominican Republic was a violent one. Throwing out the white elite, destroying catholic artifacts and suppression of the local population. Perhaps reading history solely from one perspective (i.e Haitian one) provides a rather one sided point of view.

[Gfranc]

Originally Posted by Alex Roney

You can't compare the treatment of a community that only numbers 30,000 in a country of 8 million. Minority groups that often get discriminated against are larger ones that tend to pose a perceived threat to locals in a given region, area or country. To say that Haitians are tolerant beings and Dominicans raging bigots I find to be a rather biased claim.

It's a known fact that Haiti's rule over the Dominican Republic was a violent one. Throwing out the white elite, destroying catholic artifacts and suppression of the local population. Perhaps reading history solely from one perspective (i.e Haitian one) provides a rather one sided point of view.

AGAIN, Mr. Alex, I will ask once more........There are 30,000 Dominicans living in a country that is "suppose" to be intolerate against mulattoes and have problems with mulattoes.

Not ONCE have you heard any discrimination against any Dominican in Haiti....not a peep.

Haitians are being discriminated right over the border....if retaliation was present wouldn't that small minority be a target?

Please explain this retaliation from the Haitian side? Since your brave enough to make such a comment....please explain the back and forth you see?

Instead of reciting things you've "read" over and over.......its time to actually go to both nations....JJUUSSSTTT to get you back to reality and see how your little critic of an era that occured close to 2 centuries ago is very much obsolete.

Threw out the white elite, destroyed catholic artifacts? Give me a break.....Cite sources, my friend.

Where's the source? Wikipedia? Give me a break.

[bayviews]

Let's fast-forward to the 21st Century!


Time for a people to reflect, be proud - Blanco 1st Dominican -American mayor in U.S.
Herald News (West Paterson, NJ) - Monday, November 10, 2008
Author: MEREDITH MANDELL and KAREN KELLER, Staff Writers

PASSAIC — While the country elected the first black president on Tuesday, residents of this city elected the first Dominican -American mayor in the United States.

Dr. Alex Blanco, 36, a podiatrist and school board member, won the race with 3,971 votes, according to an unofficial vote tally.

The Dominican American National Roundtable, a Washington D.C.-based advocacy group, issued a press release declaring Blanco the nation's first Dominican -American mayor. The Roundtable estimates that there are currently 36 Dominican -born elected officials in the United States.

"To our knowledge, there hasn't been any Dominican ever elected to the position of mayor in the U.S.," said Julio Tavarez, a member of the Roundtable, and a Paterson resident who launched the popular site Paterson Online in 2004.

Blanco, in a telephone interview Friday, said he hopes his accomplishment will set an example for others.

"I'm very excited, putting the Dominican Republic on a high pedestal, and being a role model for young Dominicans and other nationalities," he said. "(To) let them know that if you work hard, you can achieve your dream."

The soft-spoken father of three moved to Passaic in 1981 with his mother and two siblings from La Vega, in the Dominican Republic.

They were on food stamps during part of his childhood, he said.

He remembers not speaking English and believing fire-drill alarms at school meant you could leave for the day. The Board of Education paid the $30 fee for Blanco to take the SAT college-admissions test, he said. He went on to graduate from Kean University and the New York College of Podiatric Medicine. He said he appreciates the opportunities the United States gives to all citizens regardless of income.

"All you need is the desire to do something," Blanco said.

Blanco's mother, Viola Espino, 62, said she is one proud mother.

"I feel very proud and very happy. To see the fruit of what I raised — I feel very, very good," Espino said in Spanish. Blanco's father, a mechanic, still lives in the Dominican Republic, she said.

Dominican political leaders say Blanco's election to the helm of city government reflects the ongoing growth of Dominican political clout in the United States.

In Passaic County, elected Dominicans include Councilwoman Cristina Peralta of Prospect Park, Haledon Councilman Reynaldo Martinez, 41, and Paterson Councilman Rigo Rodriguez, 37, the city's first Dominican councilman.

Rodriguez, who was elected in 2006, said he and Blanco embraced each other Tuesday night. The two men saw parallels between the first black U.S. president and the first Dominican mayor.

"I think we made history twice," Rodriguez said. "We cried together, and said, 'This is the opportunity that this great nation gives you."' Rodriguez immigrated to the United States with his family when he was "6 or 7."

"If you follow your dream, you can make it happen," he said.

The first wave of Dominican immigration to the United States began in the late 1950s with Dominican political dissidents escaping the regime of Rafael Trujillo. Then, in the 1970s and 1980s Dominican immigrants arrived in a second wave, mostly to escape economic hardship.

Dominicans number 688,000 in the United States with more than half living in New York City, according to 2006 U.S. census figures. Other large Dominican communities are found in Massachusetts and Rhode Island.

Carlos U. Decena, a Rutgers professor of Latino Studies who teaches courses on Dominican history and politics, said Dominicans are a relatively new immigrant group and are just getting accustomed to American political life.

Decena said that's all changing with people like Blanco, what he calls "1 1/2" generation immigrants.

"The 1 1/2, or second generation, is the generation of people who come to the U.S. when they are young and they pursue their studies and become integrated in American society. The important distinction is their ability to adjust to the American system … in one way or other, they end up getting the best of both worlds. They are using some of the skills they bring with them and what they learn here to become leaders," Decena said.

On Friday in Passaic , Dominicans said they were proud that one of their own was taking office but they cautioned that being Dominican made him no better or worse than other elected officials.

"Black, white or Dominican ," said Johnny Rosario a 20-year-old butcher who was cutting meat at La Mia Grocery on Madison Avenue. "We all have the same blood. It doesn't matter if it's a Dominican ."

Jose Figueroe, 54, a Passaic resident who works as a bus driver, said Blanco's election reflected a symbolic moment.

"It shows we are progressing," he said in Spanish. "That we are getting to be in places we never thought we would be."

[popa1980]

Originally Posted by Alex Roney

You can't compare the treatment of a community that only numbers 30,000 in a country of 8 million. Minority groups that often get discriminated against are larger ones that tend to pose a perceived threat to locals in a given region, area or country. To say that Haitians are tolerant beings and Dominicans raging bigots I find to be a rather biased claim.

It's a known fact that Haiti's rule over the Dominican Republic was a violent one. Throwing out the white elite, destroying catholic artifacts and suppression of the local population. Perhaps reading history solely from one perspective (i.e Haitian one) provides a rather one sided point of view.

Alex, you mean like when the Catholic church destroyed pre-Colombian culture and religion? Or the white elite who were such "nice" folks. Haiti no doubt did some awful things in the DR but these two examples of yours, the white elite and Catholic church do not deserve even one iota of sympathy.

[Alex Roney]

Originally Posted by popa1980

Alex, you mean like when the Catholic church destroyed pre-Colombian culture and religion? Or the white elite who were such "nice" folks. Haiti no doubt did some awful things in the DR but these two examples of yours, the white elite and Catholic church do not deserve even one iota of sympathy.

Using your way of thinking we shouldn't feel any sympathy at all to Haitians that suffer discrimination in the DR. After all their country did occupy and pillage the other side of Hispanola. For someone whose constantly talking and accusing others of racism your generalizations and "guilt via grouping" sounds sort of hypocritical.

[bayviews]

Meanwhile, North Miami--which elected first Haitian mayor in 2001--has emerged as a center of potential Haitian American political clout.

Grudge Match - North Miami 's mayor faces a familiar and formidable opponent
Biscayne Boulevard Times ( Miami , FL) - Tuesday, May 1, 2007
Author: Christian Cipriani Special to BT

The May 8 election in North Miami will determine whether Kevin Burns gets a second and final two-year term as the city's mayor , or whether his opponent, former councilman Jean Monestime, will join Jacques Despinosse and Marie Erlande Steril on the five-member city council, thus reasserting the Haitian majority that was lost when Burns took office. Burns and Monestime both say the election is not about race or nationality; not about the affluent, light-skinned eastern neighborhoods vs. the poorer, dark-skinned western neighborhoods; not about a city divided. Those are issues of the past. The city has matured and transcended such divisiveness. That's what they say, and that's what many would like to believe. But as the old saying goes, wishing doesn't make it so.

This isn't the first time Burns and Monestime have faced off. In the election of 2005, the two also vied for the mayor 's job. Burns handily won that contest with 58 percent of the vote. Many people say the race failed to arouse the interest of North Miami 's many Haitian -American voters. Turnout was low, and for the first time in 18 years the mayor 's race didn't go to a runoff.

Monestime had the endorsement of Josaphat "Joe" Celestin, the man who became North Miami 's first Haitian - American mayor in 2001 after three attempts at political office. That victory was a landmark occasion for the Haitian community and a declaration of political legitimacy for one of South Florida's largest immigrant populations. In 2003, during Celestin's second term, Monestime replaced Councilman Ossmann

Desir - who in 1995 had become the city's first Haitian -American official - to maintain the majority alongside Despinosse.

Celestin's four-year tenure was equal parts achievement and embarrassment. His accomplishments often were overshadowed by his missteps, which were far more likely to make headlines. Gepsie Metellus, executive director of the Sant La Haitian Neighborhood Center and a long-time civic activist, can now look back with the aid of hindsight. She and other leaders in the Haitian community, such as Phillip Brutus, recognize the political gains forged by Celestin, but say the full potential of those gains went unrealized. The reason, Metellus says, was simple: "We were new at this." Scott Galvin has been on the North Miami City Council since 1999 and also heads up the North Miami Historical Association. He served during the Celestin years and was a frequent critic of the mayor . Their mutual animosity erupted in controversy when city attorney John Dellagloria was fired in October 2004 following a council vote that fell along racial lines. The racially charged imbroglio stemmed from an ethics complaint against Celestin, which Galvin supported.

This year Galvin is running unopposed to keep his seat and has given Kevin Burns his endorsement. Both men describe the Celestin period in disparaging terms. "People used to like reading about North Miami because it was entertaining," Galvin acknowledges.

Burns offers a similar observation: " North Miami council meetings used to go on until midnight and get crazy. A lot of times something explosive would happen right at the end - someone getting fired, some controversy. He led a divisive community."

As a politician Celestin will always be remembered for his brash manner, but his mayoral legacy remains Biscayne Landing. The deal he struck with developer Michael Swerdlow and his partners for the billion-dollar mega-development will generate hundreds of millions of dollars for the city in both tax revenue

and funding for a city agency to build affordable housing. (Swerdlow is no longer a partner in the project.) Yet the development continues to be a weapon for both sides, either as a celebration of Celestin's vigor or as a deal he simply inherited and for which he unfairly took credit.

What nearly everyone agrees on is that Celestin's ego was as large as the mystery surrounding his background. From home address to education to financial history - there was always a kneedeep pool of doubt. The Miami Herald quoted Brutus during the 2005 mayoral race offering his opinion of the former mayor : "In his heyday he was a me-first kind of guy. Some of the things he did were not good, but he was not a bad person. He did a decent job for the citizens of North Miami ."

In 2005 it was time for Celestin to step down, and two men emerged as frontrunners. Kevin Burns, a gay white man active in the community but never an office-holder, and Jean Monestime, who resigned from the city council in order to enter the race. Both men had a good shot at winning. But things quickly got complicated. And ugly.

For any recent immigrant group, the motherland is always close at hand, and it certainly was for Monestime, who unexpectedly found himself assailed by radio hosts supportive of exiled Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a champion of the working class beloved by many Haitians in South Florida. A year earlier Monestime was rumored to have paid tribute to Haiti's anti-Aristide leadership, which inflamed local partisans. Now, as a candidate for mayor , he again came under attack on Haitian radio, where he was portrayed as a rich elitist (his real-estate business has made him wealthy) who represented a threat to the poor.

Nelson "Piman Bouk" Voltaire, of WLQY-AM (1320), a 24-hour Kreyollanguage station, was one of the media figures harassing Monestime. He, along with Ed Lozama of WSRF-AM (1580) and Lavarice Gaudin, head of the Little Haiti-based politicalaction organization Veye Yo, were said to have been part of a paid smear campaign orchestrated by Ringo Cayard, director of the Haitian American Foundation. Cayard denied involvement but made cryptic remarks to the press about the risks of disrespecting the Haitian community's power structure.

"I would describe it as corruption," says Laurinus Pierre, director of the Center for Haitian Studies in Little Haiti and a long-time political observer. "People in Haitian radio were given money to sway public opinion. They fight for whatever little piece of cake you give them." Gepsie Metellus agrees the affair was a low point for Haitian politics: "The Haitian -American community in North Miami recognized its mistake in the last election. 'We shot ourselves in the foot' is what I heard afterward. People were asking what we were trying to prove or trying to gain."

In the end, Burns won in a landslide, but contrary to media reports, he believes his victory over an opponent with nearly double the campaign contributions was not because Haitians stayed home. " Haitians did come out," Burns argues. "Of the 58 percent I won, 60 percent of those came from black or Haitian residents. I won because people in the community just grew tired of the rhetoric and divisiveness."

Haitian -American political momentum in South Florida suffered more setbacks in 2006, when just two of eight Haitians vying for elective office won their seats (State Rep. Yolly Roberson returned to office and Ronald Brisé took House District 108, which includes North Miami ). "Many Haitians have a lack of understanding of politics in America," observes Laurinus Pierre. "They do not have a democratic history or the education to understand how it works and how it will benefit them. It's a poor community, and a small group of elite Haitians are out for individual success, while uneducated people live day-to-day in an unstructured constituency, unable to see the long term."

* * *

In his two years as mayor , 48-year-old Kevin Burns has changed the tone at city hall, and of council meetings in particular. Citizens can address the dais without signing up in advance, and the council itself is less quarrelsome than in Celestin's day. Burns has made other changes. He upgraded the city's website to rival Miami Beach's (and put Miami 's to shame) and restructured both the building department and Community Redevelopment Agency. A master plan overdue by nine years is being implemented, as is a master parks plan, while the 193-acre Biscayne Landing, future home to 6000 residents, steadily rises from the former Munisport Superfund site. In addition, four new public schools are now being built simultaneously in North Miami . Mayors generally have little influence over the county school district, but Burns has worked closely with schools superintendent Rudy Crew to move the ambitious building plan forward. Burns's tenure has also been notable for not making headlines or otherwise attracting media attention of the unwelcome variety.

Says Councilman Scott Galvin: "Kevin has been in office for two years and done amazing things. He's building four brand-new schools! Even if I didn't like Kevin, that would amaze me."

Burns says he wants a second term to finish what he started, but 44-year-old Jean Monestime, who has spent the past couple of years running his real estate investment company, counters that two years is enough. He charges that Burns has watched over only one part of the city - the prosperous part - and that he is out of touch with most citizens. He and Burns met face-to-face last month at a candidate forum sponsored by the Miami -Dade NAACP and moderated by its feisty president, Bishop Victor Curry. The exchange highlighted the inherent differences between incumbent and challenger. Burns was expected to provide specifics about his two years in office, but stumbled somewhat over facts and figures. Monestime, in contrast, painted a rosy picture of North Miami 's future, though with few details.

Overdevelopment, crime-prevention, effective and transparent leadership, and affordable housing are Monestime's top priorities. "What we need to do is to continue making decisions that benefit this city," he says. "Intelligent development and not overdevelopment. I think the mayor 's current plan allows for

90,000 new condo units over the next few years. That is too many."

Monestime's campaign literature and website feature vague pronouncements that suggest nefarious activities: "The city government has kept hidden from the public the status of key projects…. We must ensure that deals are not occurring behind closed doors and that public input is measured and sought rather than ignored and avoided." At the NAACP forum Monestime went so far as to claim that city hall has undisclosed plans to "gentrify our population."

"If you survey people in North Miami - and I do when I walk door-to-door campaigning - you will see that many people feel they have no idea what's going on at city hall," Monestime says. "I want to bring information to people who don't know how to get it."

For Monestime those people would seem to be Haitian Americans. ( Haitians comprise about half of North Miami 's black population, and together with African Americans make up roughly 60 percent of the city's 60,000 residents. Non-Hispanic whites, according to the 2000 U.S. Census, comprise 18.1 percent of North Miami 's population.) He began his opening remarks at the NAACP forum with this question: "Where do our people fit in?" and included several appeals to his shared heritage with the almost exclusively black audience, which had gathered at Miami 's Caleb Center, several miles outside the North Miami city limits.

Monestime insists he is not running as a Haitian only for Haitians , and says he doesn't want to revisit the events of 2005, in words or actions. "I don't want to talk about the past," he says. "I want to talk about now, the issues this city faces and how I can help bring about responsible government. Anyone who knows me knows that I want to represent everybody. I am unbiased, and I want to lead for all people who need my help, no matter where they come from. This campaign has to do with quality of life." Both Burns and Galvin agree with

[Alex Roney]

Originally Posted by bayviews

Meanwhile, North Miami--which elected first Haitian mayor in 2001--has emerged as a center of potential Haitian American political clout.

Grudge Match - North Miami 's mayor faces a familiar and formidable opponent
Biscayne Boulevard Times ( Miami , FL) - Tuesday, May 1, 2007
Author: Christian Cipriani Special to BT

The May 8 election in North Miami will determine whether Kevin Burns gets a second and final two-year term as the city's mayor , or whether his opponent, former councilman Jean Monestime, will join Jacques Despinosse and Marie Erlande Steril on the five-member city council, thus reasserting the Haitian majority that was lost when Burns took office. Burns and Monestime both say the election is not about race or nationality; not about the affluent, light-skinned eastern neighborhoods vs. the poorer, dark-skinned western neighborhoods; not about a city divided. Those are issues of the past. The city has matured and transcended such divisiveness. That's what they say, and that's what many would like to believe. But as the old saying goes, wishing doesn't make it so.

This isn't the first time Burns and Monestime have faced off. In the election of 2005, the two also vied for the mayor 's job. Burns handily won that contest with 58 percent of the vote. Many people say the race failed to arouse the interest of North Miami 's many Haitian -American voters. Turnout was low, and for the first time in 18 years the mayor 's race didn't go to a runoff.

Monestime had the endorsement of Josaphat "Joe" Celestin, the man who became North Miami 's first Haitian - American mayor in 2001 after three attempts at political office. That victory was a landmark occasion for the Haitian community and a declaration of political legitimacy for one of South Florida's largest immigrant populations. In 2003, during Celestin's second term, Monestime replaced Councilman Ossmann

Desir - who in 1995 had become the city's first Haitian -American official - to maintain the majority alongside Despinosse.

Celestin's four-year tenure was equal parts achievement and embarrassment. His accomplishments often were overshadowed by his missteps, which were far more likely to make headlines. Gepsie Metellus, executive director of the Sant La Haitian Neighborhood Center and a long-time civic activist, can now look back with the aid of hindsight. She and other leaders in the Haitian community, such as Phillip Brutus, recognize the political gains forged by Celestin, but say the full potential of those gains went unrealized. The reason, Metellus says, was simple: "We were new at this." Scott Galvin has been on the North Miami City Council since 1999 and also heads up the North Miami Historical Association. He served during the Celestin years and was a frequent critic of the mayor . Their mutual animosity erupted in controversy when city attorney John Dellagloria was fired in October 2004 following a council vote that fell along racial lines. The racially charged imbroglio stemmed from an ethics complaint against Celestin, which Galvin supported.

This year Galvin is running unopposed to keep his seat and has given Kevin Burns his endorsement. Both men describe the Celestin period in disparaging terms. "People used to like reading about North Miami because it was entertaining," Galvin acknowledges.

Burns offers a similar observation: " North Miami council meetings used to go on until midnight and get crazy. A lot of times something explosive would happen right at the end - someone getting fired, some controversy. He led a divisive community."

As a politician Celestin will always be remembered for his brash manner, but his mayoral legacy remains Biscayne Landing. The deal he struck with developer Michael Swerdlow and his partners for the billion-dollar mega-development will generate hundreds of millions of dollars for the city in both tax revenue

and funding for a city agency to build affordable housing. (Swerdlow is no longer a partner in the project.) Yet the development continues to be a weapon for both sides, either as a celebration of Celestin's vigor or as a deal he simply inherited and for which he unfairly took credit.

What nearly everyone agrees on is that Celestin's ego was as large as the mystery surrounding his background. From home address to education to financial history - there was always a kneedeep pool of doubt. The Miami Herald quoted Brutus during the 2005 mayoral race offering his opinion of the former mayor : "In his heyday he was a me-first kind of guy. Some of the things he did were not good, but he was not a bad person. He did a decent job for the citizens of North Miami ."

In 2005 it was time for Celestin to step down, and two men emerged as frontrunners. Kevin Burns, a gay white man active in the community but never an office-holder, and Jean Monestime, who resigned from the city council in order to enter the race. Both men had a good shot at winning. But things quickly got complicated. And ugly.

For any recent immigrant group, the motherland is always close at hand, and it certainly was for Monestime, who unexpectedly found himself assailed by radio hosts supportive of exiled Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide, a champion of the working class beloved by many Haitians in South Florida. A year earlier Monestime was rumored to have paid tribute to Haiti's anti-Aristide leadership, which inflamed local partisans. Now, as a candidate for mayor , he again came under attack on Haitian radio, where he was portrayed as a rich elitist (his real-estate business has made him wealthy) who represented a threat to the poor.

Nelson "Piman Bouk" Voltaire, of WLQY-AM (1320), a 24-hour Kreyollanguage station, was one of the media figures harassing Monestime. He, along with Ed Lozama of WSRF-AM (1580) and Lavarice Gaudin, head of the Little Haiti-based politicalaction organization Veye Yo, were said to have been part of a paid smear campaign orchestrated by Ringo Cayard, director of the Haitian American Foundation. Cayard denied involvement but made cryptic remarks to the press about the risks of disrespecting the Haitian community's power structure.

"I would describe it as corruption," says Laurinus Pierre, director of the Center for Haitian Studies in Little Haiti and a long-time political observer. "People in Haitian radio were given money to sway public opinion. They fight for whatever little piece of cake you give them." Gepsie Metellus agrees the affair was a low point for Haitian politics: "The Haitian -American community in North Miami recognized its mistake in the last election. 'We shot ourselves in the foot' is what I heard afterward. People were asking what we were trying to prove or trying to gain."

In the end, Burns won in a landslide, but contrary to media reports, he believes his victory over an opponent with nearly double the campaign contributions was not because Haitians stayed home. " Haitians did come out," Burns argues. "Of the 58 percent I won, 60 percent of those came from black or Haitian residents. I won because people in the community just grew tired of the rhetoric and divisiveness."

Haitian -American political momentum in South Florida suffered more setbacks in 2006, when just two of eight Haitians vying for elective office won their seats (State Rep. Yolly Roberson returned to office and Ronald Brisé took House District 108, which includes North Miami ). "Many Haitians have a lack of understanding of politics in America," observes Laurinus Pierre. "They do not have a democratic history or the education to understand how it works and how it will benefit them. It's a poor community, and a small group of elite Haitians are out for individual success, while uneducated people live day-to-day in an unstructured constituency, unable to see the long term."

* * *

In his two years as mayor , 48-year-old Kevin Burns has changed the tone at city hall, and of council meetings in particular. Citizens can address the dais without signing up in advance, and the council itself is less quarrelsome than in Celestin's day. Burns has made other changes. He upgraded the city's website to rival Miami Beach's (and put Miami 's to shame) and restructured both the building department and Community Redevelopment Agency. A master plan overdue by nine years is being implemented, as is a master parks plan, while the 193-acre Biscayne Landing, future home to 6000 residents, steadily rises from the former Munisport Superfund site. In addition, four new public schools are now being built simultaneously in North Miami . Mayors generally have little influence over the county school district, but Burns has worked closely with schools superintendent Rudy Crew to move the ambitious building plan forward. Burns's tenure has also been notable for not making headlines or otherwise attracting media attention of the unwelcome variety.

Says Councilman Scott Galvin: "Kevin has been in office for two years and done amazing things. He's building four brand-new schools! Even if I didn't like Kevin, that would amaze me."

Burns says he wants a second term to finish what he started, but 44-year-old Jean Monestime, who has spent the past couple of years running his real estate investment company, counters that two years is enough. He charges that Burns has watched over only one part of the city - the prosperous part - and that he is out of touch with most citizens. He and Burns met face-to-face last month at a candidate forum sponsored by the Miami -Dade NAACP and moderated by its feisty president, Bishop Victor Curry. The exchange highlighted the inherent differences between incumbent and challenger. Burns was expected to provide specifics about his two years in office, but stumbled somewhat over facts and figures. Monestime, in contrast, painted a rosy picture of North Miami 's future, though with few details.

Overdevelopment, crime-prevention, effective and transparent leadership, and affordable housing are Monestime's top priorities. "What we need to do is to continue making decisions that benefit this city," he says. "Intelligent development and not overdevelopment. I think the mayor 's current plan allows for

90,000 new condo units over the next few years. That is too many."

Monestime's campaign literature and website feature vague pronouncements that suggest nefarious activities: "The city government has kept hidden from the public the status of key projects…. We must ensure that deals are not occurring behind closed doors and that public input is measured and sought rather than ignored and avoided." At the NAACP forum Monestime went so far as to claim that city hall has undisclosed plans to "gentrify our population."

"If you survey people in North Miami - and I do when I walk door-to-door campaigning - you will see that many people feel they have no idea what's going on at city hall," Monestime says. "I want to bring information to people who don't know how to get it."

For Monestime those people would seem to be Haitian Americans. ( Haitians comprise about half of North Miami 's black population, and together with African Americans make up roughly 60 percent of the city's 60,000 residents. Non-Hispanic whites, according to the 2000 U.S. Census, comprise 18.1 percent of North Miami 's population.) He began his opening remarks at the NAACP forum with this question: "Where do our people fit in?" and included several appeals to his shared heritage with the almost exclusively black audience, which had gathered at Miami 's Caleb Center, several miles outside the North Miami city limits.

Monestime insists he is not running as a Haitian only for Haitians , and says he doesn't want to revisit the events of 2005, in words or actions. "I don't want to talk about the past," he says. "I want to talk about now, the issues this city faces and how I can help bring about responsible government. Anyone who knows me knows that I want to represent everybody. I am unbiased, and I want to lead for all people who need my help, no matter where they come from. This campaign has to do with quality of life." Both Burns and Galvin agree with

Good to here. Thats another big difference between the Cuban and Haitian communities in Miami. The latter really aren't that politically active. Cuban Americans put big emphasis not only in local South Florida politics but nationally as well. Haitians need to unite, clean up Little Haiti, attract investments and build up a entrepenueral culture.

[popa1980]

Originally Posted by Alex Roney

Using your way of thinking we shouldn't feel any sympathy at all to Haitians that suffer discrimination in the DR. After all their country did occupy and pillage the other side of Hispanola. For someone whose constantly talking and accusing others of racism your generalizations and "guilt via grouping" sounds sort of hypocritical.

Oh Alex, you couldnt have named two more dispecable groups of people- the [elitist] Catholic church and the white slave-owning elite. This is a perfectly valid generalisation as both groups were guilty of some of the greatest sins of that generation. In fact, the Catholic church and the Latin American white elite STILL are guilty of some terrible deeds. Dont expect me to start getting the violin out.....

What next, complaining about how bad the Soviets treated the Nazis? Come off it!

[Alex Roney]

Originally Posted by popa1980

Oh Alex, you couldnt have named two more dispecable groups of people- the [elitist] Catholic church and the white slave-owning elite. This is a perfectly valid generalisation as both groups were guilty of some of the greatest sins of that generation. In fact, the Catholic church and the Latin American white elite STILL are guilty of some terrible deeds. Dont expect me to start getting the violin out.....

What next, complaining about how bad the Soviets treated the Nazis? Come off it!

I'm consistent, I don't condone an oppressive occupation and pillaging wherever it happens. Neither do I generalize an institution as large and extensive as the catholic church. Do you have any idea about the amount of charity and social work the church is responsible for in Latin America? Heck most charities in the region are supported by religious organizations. It baffles me how you can simply ignore that simple fact. No doubt it has a dirty past, but it ain't black and white, nothing rarely is. I also won't fall for any guilt trip you try to impose on others. News flash, I feel no personal responsibility for slavery and oppression of the lower classes. Neither should anyone else solely because of their race.