MIAMI - Marlins Park (36,742)

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Scba

I'm not sure that Indy would be able to support three professional teams. If any, I'd pick Portland, but it seems like they've decided to push for an MLS bid and move the AAA team to the side, so that's not going to happen.

Portland makes the most sense, by far. They are one of the fastest-growing metropolitan areas in the country and have had a stadium and financing plan on the table for years now.
http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/ballpark.htm

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks

I think Indianapolis would be a great fit for the MLB. Any of those cities listed though could surely do better then Miami has in terms of fan support.

Indy is, first and foremost, a basketball (and Colts) town and would be the 2nd-smallest metropolitan area in the MLB, ahead of only Milwaukee. If they were pursuing an MLB franchise they wouldn't have built Victory Field a decade ago.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Mr. Met

not a fan of the design, I was personally hoping for something more like Citi Field, Camden Yards, etc

Because yet another cookie-cutter Camden Yards clone is just what the doctor ordered, in freaking MIAMI, of all places.

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by Scba

I'm not sure that Indy would be able to support three professional teams. If any, I'd pick Portland, but it seems like they've decided to push for an MLS bid and move the AAA team to the side, so that's not going to happen.

Its true that Indianapolis doesn't have that large of a metro population--but it is in a highly populated state (over 6 million) with sizeable metro areas in the neigborhood. It would be very similar to Milwaukee/Wisconsin, which is oversaturated with sports--but does a great job supporting the Brewers. I have no doubt they could support a baseball team in summer, with virtually no competitors.

I would like to see the Astros moved out of the NL Central and have an Indianapolis team there.

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by Bobby3

Not us.

Most people who live in Charlotte aren't from Charlotte, so the numbers are skewed. Those people already follow teams.

On the weekend people from Raleigh, Columbia and Greensboro/W-S/H-P would come to the games and help sell out the stadium, but on weekdays it would be awful. Plus most natives are dyed-in-the-wool Atlanta Braves fans.

We need to focus on the Knights, our International League team. They only average 900 fans per game!

The Panthers seem to do a good job with the fans. You don't think a baseball team could average 25,000 a game?

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

It's hard to blame a city for lacking passion for the game when the ownership itself lacks passion for the team. Maybe if Huizenga, Henry, Loria, etc., didn't conduct a firesale every time they won a ring (or when arbitration/contract year for multiple star players rolls around), people around town would start developing a vested interest in the club.

I understand that the ownership is terrible down there--but they consistenly have put quality talent on the field. The fans need to go to the games for the owners to consider talking to the Scott Borases of the world.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks

The Panthers seem to do a good job with the fans. You don't think a baseball team could average 25,000 a game?

There's a pretty big difference between selling out 8 home dates/year versus 80 home dates. Not only that, the Bobcats, in a brand-spanking new arena in the largest city in a basketball-mad state, have among the worst attendance in the league. If they can't fill an 20,000-seat arena for 40 dates, what makes you think they can fill a 40,000-seat ballpark for 80?

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks

Its true that Indianapolis doesn't have that large of a metro population--but it is in a highly populated state (over 6 million) with sizeable metro areas in the neigborhood.

Uhh....what sizeable metro areas? Fort Wayne is at least two hours away, and most baseball fans there are already Cubs fans. All of the other major metro areas anywhere in the vicinity of Indy already have MLB franchises, except Louisville, and even then you're talking about 1.2 million people, tops, and they're as far away as Fort Wayne.

[Bobby3]

The Panthers are a special case. Like Kingman said, they only play 8 home games a year, and those are on the weekend.

They're also Carolina's team, and not Charlotte's team. There's a rivalry between Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Bobby3

The Panthers are a special case. Like Kingman said, they only play 8 home games a year, and those are on the weekend.

They're also Carolina's team, and not Charlotte's team. There's a rivalry between Charlotte, Greensboro and Raleigh.

And Winston-Salem...and Durham...and Chapel Hill...and Fayetteville...

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

There's a pretty big difference between selling out 8 home dates/year versus 80 home dates. Not only that, the Bobcats, in a brand-spanking new arena in the largest city in a basketball-mad state, have among the worst attendance in the league. If they can't fill an 20,000-seat arena for 40 dates, what makes you think they can fill a 40,000-seat ballpark for 80?

I am not saying that they would fill up a 40,000 seat stadium every game or that Charlotte would even be a good MLB city. But I am saying that it could draw better then 15,000 a game.

Uhh....what sizeable metro areas? Fort Wayne is at least two hours away, and most baseball fans there are already Cubs fans. All of the other major metro areas anywhere in the vicinity of Indy already have MLB franchises, except Louisville, and even then you're talking about 1.2 million people, tops, and they're as far away as Fort Wayne.

They are only Cubs fans because there is no alternative.

These distances you speak of are nothing in the big scheme of things. Indianapolis is centrally located in a state with one of the highest population densities. The potential fanbase exceeds other candidates like Portland because of this, in my opinion.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks

I am not saying that they would fill up a 40,000 seat stadium every game or that Charlotte would even be a good MLB city. But I am saying that it could draw better then 15,000 a game.



They are only Cubs fans because there is no alternative.

These distances you speak of are nothing in the big scheme of things. Indianapolis is centrally located in a state with one of the highest population densities. The potential fanbase exceeds other candidates like Portland because of this, in my opinion.

That sounds plausible in theory, but in practice, it often doesn't work out that way. Theoretically, the Royals also have Omaha, Lincoln, St. Joseph, Columbia, Jeff City, Topeka/Lawrence, Wichita, Joplin/Springfield, and Tulsa to draw from, yet struggle to draw 20k/game.

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

That sounds plausible in theory, but in practice, it often doesn't work out that way. Theoretically, the Royals also have Omaha, Lincoln, St. Joseph, Columbia, Jeff City, Topeka/Lawrence, Wichita, Joplin/Springfield, and Tulsa to draw from, yet struggle to draw 20k/game.

Thats because the Royals are just so miserable. Few cities/metros can overcome such failure over long periods of time. The Royals haven't been relevant since when--Bo Jackson? Plus, the Royals play in a state that is dominated by the Cardinals. Indiana has more people then Missouri and really has no competition---aside from Cubs fans. You might not see it, but I think Indiana would quickly catch baseball fever. Especially being surrounded by (in my opinion) a very dense concentration of passionate baseball fanbases (Cubs, W. Sox, Reds, Indians, Tigers, Brewers, Cardinals). If they retain the excellent front office work/finding prospects (with a better owner, of course)---then there is no doubt that a team can succeed there.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by Judge Phillip Banks

Thats because the Royals are just so miserable. Few cities/metros can overcome such failure over long periods of time. The Royals haven't been relevant since when--Bo Jackson? Plus, the Royals play in a state that is dominated by the Cardinals. Indiana has more people then Missouri and really has no competition---aside from Cubs fans. You might not see it, but I think Indiana would quickly catch baseball fever. Especially being surrounded by (in my opinion) a very dense concentration of passionate baseball fanbases (Cubs, W. Sox, Reds, Indians, Tigers, Brewers, Cardinals). If they retain the excellent front office work/finding prospects (with a better owner, of course)---then there is no doubt that a team can succeed there.

The Royals treaded water until the strike, after which they fired Hal McRae, which sent the franchise spiraling into the Dark Ages.

The problem is, do the people of Indiana see your vision? They built Victory Field not too long ago, which doesn't appear to be expandable to major-league standards and the city has expressed little (if any) interest in seeking an MLB franchise. Portland, on the other hand, is one of the fastest-growing metro areas in the country, with a public transit systems matched by few cities of its size and a ballpark design and financing plan already on the table.

[massp88]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

The Royals treaded water until the strike, after which they fired Hal McRae, which sent the franchise spiraling into the Dark Ages.

The problem is, do the people of Indiana see your vision? They built Victory Field not too long ago, which doesn't appear to be expandable to major-league standards and the city has expressed little (if any) interest in seeking an MLB franchise. Portland, on the other hand, is one of the fastest-growing metro areas in the country, with a public transit systems matched by few cities of its size and a ballpark design and financing plan already on the table.

Indiana will never have an MLB team. End of story. The area is not populated enough, as is Indianapolis if a decent professional sports city.

Don't pick on the Royals. They average just under 20,000 fans a game in 2008. Considering how bad the team is, that's pretty darn good.

Compare that the the Devil Rays, who even in 2008 when they were atop the AL east still were not drawing above 21-22,000 fans a night.


In general, Florida is not a good professional sports state. That is a fact. Aside from when teams are winning championships, teams generally don't draw large crowds to their games.

[www.sercan.de]

Why there aren't any interior pics?

[massp88]

Originally Posted by www.sercan.de

Why there aren't any interior pics?

I think there are a couple that show portions of the interior.


I think it's a great looking ballpark. One thing they should change is the side the roof opens.

[KingmanIII]

Originally Posted by massp88

Indiana will never have an MLB team. End of story. The area is not populated enough, as is Indianapolis if a decent professional sports city.

Don't pick on the Royals. They average just under 20,000 fans a game in 2008. Considering how bad the team is, that's pretty darn good.

Compare that the the Devil Rays, who even in 2008 when they were atop the AL east still were not drawing above 21-22,000 fans a night.


In general, Florida is not a good professional sports state. That is a fact. Aside from when teams are winning championships, teams generally don't draw large crowds to their games.

For most of the season, many sections of Kauffman Stadium were closed off to continue working on the renovations, which are almost complete. This reduced capacity to as low as 28,000 for parts of the season.

To be fair, the Devil Rays had a season ticket base of only about 7,000, which is expected to nearly double for 2009. People will not all of a sudden just magically show up to the ballpark to watch a team who never lost fewer than 90 games a season before last year.

Look at the Royals, for instance--in 2003, they sat atop the AL Central for most of the season and only managed about 22,000 fans/game.

[El Mariachi]

Originally Posted by KingmanIII

The Royals treaded water until the strike, after which they fired Hal McRae, which sent the franchise spiraling into the Dark Ages.

The problem is, do the people of Indiana see your vision? They built Victory Field not too long ago, which doesn't appear to be expandable to major-league standards and the city has expressed little (if any) interest in seeking an MLB franchise. Portland, on the other hand, is one of the fastest-growing metro areas in the country, with a public transit systems matched by few cities of its size and a ballpark design and financing plan already on the table.

No, Indiana doesn't share my vision. But I do think it would emerge as an excellent baseball market over time.

Portland wouldn't be bad either, but I don't see its advantages over a city like Indy, aside from having less competition from other teams. The city is growing, but Oregon has a relatively modest population. It would be the least populated state after Oklahoma with a professional sports team in the 4 major leagues I do believe.

That all being said, I doubt the Marlins are going anywhere. The MLB would rather have that franchise rot in South Florida then move it to a smaller market.

[Architek]

the problem is not the fans...its the team being fielded and the owners..

the heat, panthers, and dolphins dont have attendance problems why because they are consistent teams which have recognizable players and have not constantly threatened to leave if they dont get things there way...something the marlins do everyday...if the marlins fielded a good team in a stadium where you wouldn't get rain delayed every other night they would be in the top15 in attendance no doubt....