#PROJECT: THE ROYAL ESTATES ( DIP)

[bizzybonita]

[IMG]http://i35.************/ngzz0h.jpg[/IMG]


An elegant lifestyle awaits you at The Royal Estates, a 3.6 million sq. ft. premier community in Dubai Investment Park. Relive the timeless majesty of Early English Eras at exquisite homes with Victorian, Georgian and Regency architecture. Surrounded by swan-filled lakes, babbling brooks, stone bridges and a labyrinth of flowered gardens, The Royal Estates is your gateway to tranquil and exclusive living.


Official website

http://www.royalestates.ae/

[amian]

called them up the other day to check on progress on the project.
they said that soil work and stuff has been completed and construction will start somewhere end of december.
They still were advertising on this project a couple of months back ( specially on regal row). so i got the impression that they had not sold all of their units.
when i specifically asked about the status on sales they told me that all the units of regal row have been sold out but the other projects in royal estates they have some units left ( like apts. ) when asked as to why they are advertising when all the units on regal row have been sold off they said that they sold them all out around 2-3 days after the launch date and were taken over by one big party and that party is selling them now ( dont know how far this story is true) as my impression is that around the time they launched this project ( sometime in feb or mar 2008) was the golden period for developers. so i dont think they would sell all the available units in one go and would spread the sales over a period of time.

[Bongoboots]

Does anyone know if any construction has started on the Royal Estates yet?

[amian]

Originally Posted by Bongoboots

Does anyone know if any construction has started on the Royal Estates yet?

i plan on going to their office coming month and find out what is the status on it.
will write back and inform as soon as i find out.

[amian]

http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles.../10272862.html

[Spurs]

Has anyone given post dated cheques for this new payment plan? Or has anyone been offered anything else?

I went to site 2/3 weeks back and I couldn't see any plots marked out, just one very very large peice of land. A part of that land was getting flattened.

[bizzybonita]

here , i wanna to help you with my eyes

http://dubaipalisades.blogspot.com/2...ment-plan.html

[Bongoboots]

Seems like no work has started yet - apparently according to new Dubai law we don't have to pay more than 20% unless significant construction has begun - does anyone know if this is correct?
Also, does anyone know what percentage the value of these apartments has decreased- I must admit i am thinking of just pulling out!

[DubaiGuru]

Magic Planet - Dubai Central

[Typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Has anyone given post dated cheques for this new payment plan? Or has anyone been offered anything else?

I went to site 2/3 weeks back and I couldn't see any plots marked out, just one very very large peice of land. A part of that land was getting flattened.

I've driven out there twice and can't find the site. The Palisades is well marked and then it becomes plain white fences. The photos on their website under construction progress look to be taken from behind the Palisades fence line. Not a single Royal Estates sign to be found.

I talked to the Finance Controller of RERA at the recent Dubai property show. He stated that you must pay 30%, even if construction hasn't started. I think the 20% is going to be applied to future projects. He was very aware of who The Palisades were, but had never heard of The Royal Estates or Aristocrat Star Investments. When you look under project approvals on the RERA website you can't find The Royal Estates, only The Palisades. I questioned them about this and the manager of Aristocrat Star stated they are piggy backing on The Palisades approval.

If a project has not started within 6 months of approval from RERA then it must be cancelled. The big question is what constitutes commencement of construction. Just running a tractor over the sand to flatten it out a little doesn't really cut it in my eyes. They need to be doing foundation work. Not sure what RERA's take on that is. I really hope this project is cancelled. Either that or they reduces the prices by 30-40%. Do the math yourself. At the original price that we paid we would still be ahead if we walked away from 30% as opposed to paying the full amount. These units will be lucky to ever get built. If they are then they will be lucky to be worth 50% of the original price.

Apartments on the Palm are now down to 1000 Dirhams/Sq.Ft. The Royal Estates might be worth 500-600. Possibly less depending how much further prices fall.

Construction costs are way down and some companies in Abu Dhabi are giving investors a new ( lower ) price. If Aristocrat Star wants to keep their current investors they need to lower the contract price by 30-40%.

They are calling me twice per week to get me to sign up for their payment plan. No way am I going to give them 30 post dated checks when they haven't even broken ground.

I'll be following this all up with RERA in the next week.

They either drop the price by 30-40%; cancel the project; or fight me for anymore money.



Typhoonpilot

[Bongoboots]

Excellent post Typhoon Pilot. Problem is how to get money back- I've been trying to call RERA about the fact that it has taken more than 6 months to start the project but can't get through to them - Article17 of Law No 8 of 2007 states that a developers registration shall be cancelled from the register if it has not started structural works after the lapse of 6 months from the date of approval of the off plan sales without acceptable excuse. So what does that mean for us? I think the sensible thing for the developer to do would be just to shelve the project due to unprecedented market conditions and refund our money - that way they can walk away with their reputation intact- here's hoping!

[Typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by Bongoboots

Excellent post Typhoon Pilot. Problem is how to get money back- I've been trying to call RERA about the fact that it has taken more than 6 months to start the project but can't get through to them - Article17 of Law No 8 of 2007 states that a developers registration shall be cancelled from the register if it has not started structural works after the lapse of 6 months from the date of approval of the off plan sales without acceptable excuse. So what does that mean for us? I think the sensible thing for the developer to do would be just to shelve the project due to unprecedented market conditions and refund our money - that way they can walk away with their reputation intact- here's hoping!

Hi Bongo:


I agree, shelving the project is the best thing for us. Sadly Aristocrat Star seems to be going ahead. I was out there today and drove onto the site. I entered at the unfinished Palisades structure and turned right down the sand packed road until getting to the corner closest to Ewan and Green Community West. There were a few cars there with some guys laying concrete blocks. Met two gentlemen working on the Royal Estates project. They said the structure they were going to build there would be the showroom/office for the project. They said that construction of the buildings was going to commence in May.



TP

[methodinmadness]

One must acknowledge that Aristocrat Star Investments are in this for the business prospect of making a profit. They will be delighted that building costs have gone down..it just means they will make more profit. As for them reducing the prices for properties already sold off-plan.. forget it!

Whether or not the new proposed RERA rules apply a) the developer must have completed at least 20% of the construction before they can sell off-plan & b) that payments must be linked to construction milestones… remains to be seen in this case.

The only course of action one can take is to not pay anymore money until there is tangible evidence that the project is going ahead and in a timely manner.

Whatever you decide, don’t fall into the trap of handing out post-dated cheques. Firstly you will never see the cheques again (they will be used as guarantee’s and collateral) and secondly, should one bounce, the signatory on the cheque risks imprisonment until cheque and probably the whole debt is fully paid. There is no legal way you can stop a cheque being cashed either.

Apparently the investor would need to register the off-plan purchase with RERA before RERA will take any action on the investor’s behalf so more expense I’m afraid!

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by methodinmadness

One must acknowledge that Aristocrat Star Investments are in this for the business prospect of making a profit. They will be delighted that building costs have gone down..it just means they will make more profit. As for them reducing the prices for properties already sold off-plan.. forget it!

Some developers are doing this, Deyaar for instance

Whether or not the new proposed RERA rules apply a) the developer must have completed at least 20% of the construction before they can sell off-plan & b) that payments must be linked to construction milestones… remains to be seen in this case.

The only course of action one can take is to not pay anymore money until there is tangible evidence that the project is going ahead and in a timely manner.

Whatever you decide, don’t fall into the trap of handing out post-dated cheques. Firstly you will never see the cheques again (they will be used as guarantee’s and collateral) and secondly, should one bounce, the signatory on the cheque risks imprisonment until cheque and probably the whole debt is fully paid. There is no legal way you can stop a cheque being cashed either.

Agree, you are mad to put down PDC in this country, some westerners dont realise how strickt they are on the mentioned consequences

Apparently the investor would need to register the off-plan purchase with RERA before RERA will take any action on the investor’s behalf so more expense I’m afraid!

This is lease hold property isn't it??? In which case we will not see a title deed and so do we need to register this with RERA / Lands department.

[methodinmadness]

I think all property sales transactions need to be registered with RERA regardless of Freehold or Leasehold. Take for example JBR apartments..these are leasehold and presumably the individual owners have registered with RERA? Perhaps one of Aristocrat Star Investment selling agents (i.e. Better Homes) can confirm? In fact the selling agents should be driving this argument as a whole on behalf of their customers who purchased properties in the development!

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by methodinmadness

I think all property sales transactions need to be registered with RERA regardless of Freehold or Leasehold. Take for example JBR apartments..these are leasehold and presumably the individual owners have registered with RERA? Perhaps one of Aristocrat Star Investment selling agents (i.e. Better Homes) can confirm? In fact the selling agents should be driving this argument as a whole on behalf of their customers who purchased properties in the development!

JBR is freehold! You own the property and your have a title deed.

DIP is leasehold! You own the lease of the property which can be renewed, which in Royal Estates is 30 years.....or was it 90 yrs???

For this reason I do not believe it is at our expense to register the property as we dont own it.

[DubaiGuru]

Who did you guys meet there? There's a gentleman called Suleiman who sat across the table for over an hour explaining progress, payment plans, the option to go for the new one or not to and I must say it was very relieving to have someone express this degree of professionalism today.

The site is in fact behind the Palisades fence as shown on the website. They're building a site office there too and apparently have bids to begin branding on the site as well.

They in my opinion seem committed to going ahead with the project by all means, that's good enough for me. Phew!

[DubaiGuru]

Hi Typhoonpilot,

I'm quite surprised by some of your comments and not to mention the negativity. Having gone through your posts, I've done some research and put down facts that I'd like to share.

- No Royal Estates sign
I've addressed this in my earlier post and I think someone's already mentioned that if you go to the site now you'll see guys setting up a structure there for Royal estates.

- RERA not knowing Royal Estates
I'm shocked at both your comments here. People don't need to be tech savvy to look this up.
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/t...=20007&&lang=0 is the link to RERA's website and I can clearly see Aristocrat Star Investments there! ID 239.

Not sure if you're in touch with the CEO at RERA too, Marwan Bin Ghalita. Apparently he knows Aristocrat very well and is constantly in touch with them. He in fact shared the same table with their CEO at the recent event RERA had in Dubai...!

- 6 months delay clause
Truth be said, this one is probably the biggest deal breaker. But if you speak to them and ask the guys on site, they'll tell you that the delay was in fact from the master developer/land owner. I know of many other developers - Cirrus, Halcrow, etc that are facing the same problem because of delays in getting the land handed over inspite of the developers living up to their obligations. Even RERA's admitted that this is a problem they're trying to resolve.

Since I do not possess the economic sense or statistics to counter your valuations in terms of pricing and value at R.E, I shall refrain from doing so.

Note though that The Palm was expensive to begin with (hi-end has been the most badly hit today) and had a lot of speculation from day 1. Premiums reached 2-400% on speculation in the off plan market. There's your reason on why prices are dropping today. My property on the Palm is still worth "MORE" than what I initially paid. And R.Estates is reasonable in the first place and there had luckily been no speculation and inflated premiums.

The Business editor at Gulf News is not a paid employee of Aristocrat to mention his name and stake his reputation on calling their payment plan unique. If you can't afford to pay your second installment of 15% in the case of their offices at AED 330,000, it's better off to pay it in installments you can afford. As far as I know, the payment plan is an option you can choose to take or ignore!

Regards,

DG

Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot

I've driven out there twice and can't find the site. The Palisades is well marked and then it becomes plain white fences. The photos on their website under construction progress look to be taken from behind the Palisades fence line. Not a single Royal Estates sign to be found.

I talked to the Finance Controller of RERA at the recent Dubai property show. He stated that you must pay 30%, even if construction hasn't started. I think the 20% is going to be applied to future projects. He was very aware of who The Palisades were, but had never heard of The Royal Estates or Aristocrat Star Investments. When you look under project approvals on the RERA website you can't find The Royal Estates, only The Palisades. I questioned them about this and the manager of Aristocrat Star stated they are piggy backing on The Palisades approval.

If a project has not started within 6 months of approval from RERA then it must be cancelled. The big question is what constitutes commencement of construction. Just running a tractor over the sand to flatten it out a little doesn't really cut it in my eyes. They need to be doing foundation work. Not sure what RERA's take on that is. I really hope this project is cancelled. Either that or they reduces the prices by 30-40%. Do the math yourself. At the original price that we paid we would still be ahead if we walked away from 30% as opposed to paying the full amount. These units will be lucky to ever get built. If they are then they will be lucky to be worth 50% of the original price.

Apartments on the Palm are now down to 1000 Dirhams/Sq.Ft. The Royal Estates might be worth 500-600. Possibly less depending how much further prices fall.

Construction costs are way down and some companies in Abu Dhabi are giving investors a new ( lower ) price. If Aristocrat Star wants to keep their current investors they need to lower the contract price by 30-40%.

They are calling me twice per week to get me to sign up for their payment plan. No way am I going to give them 30 post dated checks when they haven't even broken ground.

I'll be following this all up with RERA in the next week.

They either drop the price by 30-40%; cancel the project; or fight me for anymore money.



Typhoonpilot

[Typhoonpilot]

Originally Posted by DubaiGuru

Hi Typhoonpilot,

I'm quite surprised by some of your comments and not to mention the negativity. Having gone through your posts, I've done some research and put down facts that I'd like to share.

It's not "negativity", it's reality. Aristocrat Star have not been very good at communicating where they are and where they are going. In the absence of information one must wonder what is happening.

- No Royal Estates sign
I've addressed this in my earlier post and I think someone's already mentioned that if you go to the site now you'll see guys setting up a structure there for Royal estates.

Agreed, but why is it behind the Palisades fence and why didn't they ever tell me that when I wanted to go out for a visit? Workers are, in fact, setting up a structure, but again what does that mean? The Palisades built, but never finished, a structure that looked to be their site office and showroom and now it sits abandoned. Will Aristocrat Star do the same in order to collect the next 10% or 15% due from their investors. In this economic climate one must be suspect?

- RERA not knowing Royal Estates
I'm shocked at both your comments here. People don't need to be tech savvy to look this up.
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/t...=20007&&lang=0 is the link to RERA's website and I can clearly see Aristocrat Star Investments there! ID 239.

It wasn't there a few months ago when I looked, but now it appears to be. Okay, plus one for Aristocrat Star.

Not sure if you're in touch with the CEO at RERA too, Marwan Bin Ghalita. Apparently he knows Aristocrat very well and is constantly in touch with them. He in fact shared the same table with their CEO at the recent event RERA had in Dubai...!

- 6 months delay clause
Truth be said, this one is probably the biggest deal breaker. But if you speak to them and ask the guys on site, they'll tell you that the delay was in fact from the master developer/land owner. I know of many other developers - Cirrus, Halcrow, etc that are facing the same problem because of delays in getting the land handed over inspite of the developers living up to their obligations. Even RERA's admitted that this is a problem they're trying to resolve.

Aristocrat Star needs to be forthcoming on the timeline for construction with specific details of the plan including a list of contractors. They want our money so they need to communicate.

Since I do not possess the economic sense or statistics to counter your valuations in terms of pricing and value at R.E, I shall refrain from doing so.

It's easy really. Look at the tens of thousands of units completed or nearing completion in the area of R.E.. Then look at the mass exodus of skilled workers ( read, those able to afford the rent or purchase of a R.E. unit ) from Dubai over the next year. Estimates are that 250,000 people will leave Dubai this summer alone ( waiting for kids to finish the school year ). Valuations have come down significantly and will continue. Right now they've found a pivot point where sellers are still hoping to get their original investment back and buyers are waiting for prices to decline further. Over time the sellers will be forced to accept a loss. Values will continue to decline. The huge increase in supply at the same time as a huge decrease in demand will drive prices for sale and rent significantly lower than they are today. Residential units of the caliber of the Royal Estates will command a maximum of 600 Dirhams/sq.ft. Rents for a one bedroom apartment will be close to 45,000 to 50,000/year, maybe less.

So an investor shells out 1,000,000 Dirhams for said one bedroom apartment that will only be worth 500,000 at completion, an immediate 500,000 Dirham loss. They then struggle to find a tenant at a price that won't even cover the mortgage ( oh wait, there aren't mortgages available on the Royal Estates ) Or they walk away from 300,000 ( the 30% required by law ). Over both the short and long term walking away is the financially prudent thing to do.

Aristocrat Star will not be able to find a replacement buyer for units that people will walk away from. Why? Nobody is going to buy off plan property that hasn't even started construction and nobody is going to take the risk on a small developer.

Note though that The Palm was expensive to begin with (hi-end has been the most badly hit today) and had a lot of speculation from day 1. Premiums reached 2-400% on speculation in the off plan market. There's your reason on why prices are dropping today. My property on the Palm is still worth "MORE" than what I initially paid. And R.Estates is reasonable in the first place and there had luckily been no speculation and inflated premiums.

The Business editor at Gulf News is not a paid employee of Aristocrat to mention his name and stake his reputation on calling their payment plan unique. If you can't afford to pay your second installment of 15% in the case of their offices at AED 330,000, it's better off to pay it in installments you can afford. As far as I know, the payment plan is an option you can choose to take or ignore!

Regards,

DG

I'll ignore that payment plan because it really only favors the developer and giving post dated checks for 30 months is insane.



Typhoonpilot

[Spurs]

DG if you are happy to pay for something that will be worth half the price on handover.....you go for it.

Ill loose my 20% I put down. The remaining 80% ill put in a fixed deposit acc (NBD 7%) after 3 years this 80% will be back up to 100% of what I had. I will then buy the unit at a predicted (and relistic) 50% of the price on handover.