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United Arab Emirates - دار زايـــد The exciting new world in Dubai , Abu Dhabi and other Emirates



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Old March 4th, 2009, 06:27 AM   #15261
mission
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Originally Posted by Imre View Post
try 85-90K first , maybe 2-3 cheques,
you can put your advert on the www.expatriates.com and www.dubizzle.com
Thanks Imre, Your help is appreciated. I dont have a dubai mob number how do i get around the registering of Dubizzle? they want to send a text to a uae mobile only?????
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Old March 4th, 2009, 07:10 AM   #15262
methodinmadness
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I think all property sales transactions need to be registered with RERA regardless of Freehold or Leasehold. Take for example JBR apartments..these are leasehold and presumably the individual owners have registered with RERA? Perhaps one of Aristocrat Star Investment selling agents (i.e. Better Homes) can confirm? In fact the selling agents should be driving this argument as a whole on behalf of their customers who purchased properties in the development!
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Old March 4th, 2009, 07:27 AM   #15263
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I'd rather pay the broker fee. If the landlord was to pay it that means he would increase the rent, which translates to a higher increase next year; so if I'm to stay long term I'd rather pay the fee and get lower rent.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 07:32 AM   #15264
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Originally Posted by Maha View Post
I'd rather pay the broker fee. If the landlord was to pay it that means he would increase the rent, which translates to a higher increase next year; so if I'm to stay long term I'd rather pay the fee and get lower rent.

Good Point Maha.

Under the current law, rent cannot be increased in the second year and no agency fees will be incurred when renewing the contract.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:17 AM   #15265
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Originally Posted by dbxdude View Post
Question:
You invest in a RAK backed developement and after your deposit take a Sharia complient mortage from a RAK backed lender, (so both developer and lender quais RAK govt bodies) and that developer builds nothing (say similar to la hoya bay) yet your interest accumulates with the lender, how do you feel? If you said shove it, im off, would you be running away?

This is happening eveywhere in the UAE.
Many people have purchased off plan in their home countries and have used financing from banks. They have faced delays and even projects being cancelled. However if they cant or wont pay, they dont leave the country because it is which they dwell. Others may take the easier option of insolvency. People come to Dubai on contracts which do have a finite life so they no one day they will leave. If they come to make money then they take a risk to make money and it fails. They will just leave and go home to their country without repercussions.

So in your example, the person has decided to try to make some money (on his own accord ) by investing in property outside of his home country which is inherently risky on top of the fact that he earns his salary there as well. Add to the fact that it is off plan so even more risky since there is every chance it will be delayed. Compounded by the fact he now wants finance on it. The risks are high but if they come off he will be laughing. Unfortunately the dont and guess what, he thinks oh well time to go home.

So who is left holding the losses?? There is an incentive to leave since you can start again but i dont think many people would leave so quickly if they were tracked to their homes and asked to pay.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:20 AM   #15266
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Then again Dubai could make JBR a massive prison for all the terrible people who invested here. Yes jailing people who cant meet their mortage payments is a clever move. I agree with u all. Genius.

Jailing people is up to the lender. Most will not do this and will try to find a way so that you can pay your debts. Jailing is a last resort.

Unfortunately if you are on a contract and you lose your job then most likely you will leave the country so it is catch 22 situation.

People and banks should never have been lending and borrowing without proper investment analysis.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:26 AM   #15267
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Wanabe, the problem with positive news is that sometimes it covers up real problems that need to be discussed and resolved which cannot be, this was a major problem with communisim - since the state was never wrong, there were no problems and thus nothing to improve...

Most banks and major businesses do not consider stats from imigration dept as accurate and thus dont pay them much attention.

Instead they look towards Schools for an indication of what the population is doing. So far Gems has 150,000 transfer requests pending for term end. Lets say 50,000 are internal transfers - ie from one school in the UAE to another School. That leaves 100,000 External transfers - so lets say each family has 2 children, thats 50,000 families, or 100,000 potenital adult workers.

And thats just Gems school and thats just April.

Construction is not the only industry hit, a anyone who works in DIFC (please backup if you do) can testify that the place is atleast 70% more empty - in terms of people walking round then it was pre summer 08.

Estimates vary, but i would be surprised if people here didnt know people who have left or leaving. Best guesses 200,000 have left with 200,000 more leaving in the near term.

So lets see, out of a population of 1.4m we are down to 1m and declinning. Trends are hard to reverse.

What impact will this have on Business and Property prices do you think ?
Given the extra supply comming on line shortly?

What price psf will the marina, golden mile drop to?

Confidence is at all time lows, people are punch drunk, those choosing to stay may well changfe their mind if they start hearing about people being put in jail due to mortage default. And if you have defaulted - in this enviroment - do you stay and clear your debt or do you say - forget it, this place is finnished?

This issue can be removed with 1 decree.

People will come back to Dubai, Dubai will recover from this - no problem at all. But it will take time and smart thiking and policy. Otherwise the southsea bubble will have had nothing on this place. Right now, the deniel etc is unhelpful and foolish. This is IMHO and i could be very wrong - perhaps there is a glut of businesses looking to reolcate/expand here and a queue of people looking to imigrate..... like i said i saw Elvis here the other day...
Thanks for telling me what I already know and haven't denied,Dubai is in the shit.
Now again,can we move on please.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:28 AM   #15268
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Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
I've been monitoring this forum for a long time now, and have managed to establish a high level of correlation between the civility displayed in this thread, and the state of the property market in the subsequent 6 month period.

Sorry guys, but you're all fucked
I have been following this forum for eight months or so, and I think that this might be the wisest post I've seen - except for Imre's photos sans commentary.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:42 AM   #15269
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Originally Posted by methodinmadness View Post
I think all property sales transactions need to be registered with RERA regardless of Freehold or Leasehold. Take for example JBR apartments..these are leasehold and presumably the individual owners have registered with RERA? Perhaps one of Aristocrat Star Investment selling agents (i.e. Better Homes) can confirm? In fact the selling agents should be driving this argument as a whole on behalf of their customers who purchased properties in the development!
JBR is freehold! You own the property and your have a title deed.

DIP is leasehold! You own the lease of the property which can be renewed, which in Royal Estates is 30 years.....or was it 90 yrs???

For this reason I do not believe it is at our expense to register the property as we dont own it.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 08:54 AM   #15270
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Progress and payments

Who did you guys meet there? There's a gentleman called Suleiman who sat across the table for over an hour explaining progress, payment plans, the option to go for the new one or not to and I must say it was very relieving to have someone express this degree of professionalism today.

The site is in fact behind the Palisades fence as shown on the website. They're building a site office there too and apparently have bids to begin branding on the site as well.

They in my opinion seem committed to going ahead with the project by all means, that's good enough for me. Phew!
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Old March 4th, 2009, 09:21 AM   #15271
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Hi Typhoonpilot,

I'm quite surprised by some of your comments and not to mention the negativity. Having gone through your posts, I've done some research and put down facts that I'd like to share.

- No Royal Estates sign
I've addressed this in my earlier post and I think someone's already mentioned that if you go to the site now you'll see guys setting up a structure there for Royal estates.

- RERA not knowing Royal Estates
I'm shocked at both your comments here. People don't need to be tech savvy to look this up.
http://www.rpdubai.com/rpdubai/jsp/t...=20007&&lang=0 is the link to RERA's website and I can clearly see Aristocrat Star Investments there! ID 239.

Not sure if you're in touch with the CEO at RERA too, Marwan Bin Ghalita. Apparently he knows Aristocrat very well and is constantly in touch with them. He in fact shared the same table with their CEO at the recent event RERA had in Dubai...!

- 6 months delay clause
Truth be said, this one is probably the biggest deal breaker. But if you speak to them and ask the guys on site, they'll tell you that the delay was in fact from the master developer/land owner. I know of many other developers - Cirrus, Halcrow, etc that are facing the same problem because of delays in getting the land handed over inspite of the developers living up to their obligations. Even RERA's admitted that this is a problem they're trying to resolve.

Since I do not possess the economic sense or statistics to counter your valuations in terms of pricing and value at R.E, I shall refrain from doing so.

Note though that The Palm was expensive to begin with (hi-end has been the most badly hit today) and had a lot of speculation from day 1. Premiums reached 2-400% on speculation in the off plan market. There's your reason on why prices are dropping today. My property on the Palm is still worth "MORE" than what I initially paid. And R.Estates is reasonable in the first place and there had luckily been no speculation and inflated premiums.

The Business editor at Gulf News is not a paid employee of Aristocrat to mention his name and stake his reputation on calling their payment plan unique. If you can't afford to pay your second installment of 15% in the case of their offices at AED 330,000, it's better off to pay it in installments you can afford. As far as I know, the payment plan is an option you can choose to take or ignore!

Regards,

DG

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot View Post
I've driven out there twice and can't find the site. The Palisades is well marked and then it becomes plain white fences. The photos on their website under construction progress look to be taken from behind the Palisades fence line. Not a single Royal Estates sign to be found.

I talked to the Finance Controller of RERA at the recent Dubai property show. He stated that you must pay 30%, even if construction hasn't started. I think the 20% is going to be applied to future projects. He was very aware of who The Palisades were, but had never heard of The Royal Estates or Aristocrat Star Investments. When you look under project approvals on the RERA website you can't find The Royal Estates, only The Palisades. I questioned them about this and the manager of Aristocrat Star stated they are piggy backing on The Palisades approval.

If a project has not started within 6 months of approval from RERA then it must be cancelled. The big question is what constitutes commencement of construction. Just running a tractor over the sand to flatten it out a little doesn't really cut it in my eyes. They need to be doing foundation work. Not sure what RERA's take on that is. I really hope this project is cancelled. Either that or they reduces the prices by 30-40%. Do the math yourself. At the original price that we paid we would still be ahead if we walked away from 30% as opposed to paying the full amount. These units will be lucky to ever get built. If they are then they will be lucky to be worth 50% of the original price.

Apartments on the Palm are now down to 1000 Dirhams/Sq.Ft. The Royal Estates might be worth 500-600. Possibly less depending how much further prices fall.

Construction costs are way down and some companies in Abu Dhabi are giving investors a new ( lower ) price. If Aristocrat Star wants to keep their current investors they need to lower the contract price by 30-40%.

They are calling me twice per week to get me to sign up for their payment plan. No way am I going to give them 30 post dated checks when they haven't even broken ground.

I'll be following this all up with RERA in the next week.

They either drop the price by 30-40%; cancel the project; or fight me for anymore money.



Typhoonpilot
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Old March 4th, 2009, 09:36 AM   #15272
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Originally Posted by iced View Post
Many people have purchased off plan in their home countries and have used financing from banks. They have faced delays and even projects being cancelled. However if they cant or wont pay, they dont leave the country because it is which they dwell. Others may take the easier option of insolvency. People come to Dubai on contracts which do have a finite life so they no one day they will leave. If they come to make money then they take a risk to make money and it fails. They will just leave and go home to their country without repercussions.

So in your example, the person has decided to try to make some money (on his own accord ) by investing in property outside of his home country which is inherently risky on top of the fact that he earns his salary there as well. Add to the fact that it is off plan so even more risky since there is every chance it will be delayed. Compounded by the fact he now wants finance on it. The risks are high but if they come off he will be laughing. Unfortunately the dont and guess what, he thinks oh well time to go home.

So who is left holding the losses?? There is an incentive to leave since you can start again but i dont think many people would leave so quickly if they were tracked to their homes and asked to pay.
the point is they are government owned developers and government owned lenders.... you would think this would make the problem rather easy to solve for said government. . . hopefully it will.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #15273
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Originally Posted by Wannaberich View Post
Thanks for telling me what I already know and haven't denied,Dubai is in the shit.
Now again,can we move on please.
If you think its in the sh1t now, you have seen nothing yet unless they amend the law, what will be the impact of a few hundred expats in jail cause they cant make payments? Im not saying its going to happen, i just say if it does, it will lead to pointless pain for this city, country and region. Im not suggesting debt be forgiven, but a there needs to be a process in place that gives someone a reasonable and fair chance of working it out. Mind you, it doesnt affect me, i just think it will affect alot of other people and soon, it might also stop people legging it....
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Old March 4th, 2009, 09:41 AM   #15274
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Meraas halts work on two towers in Dubai -report

DUBAI, March 4 (Reuters) - Dubai state property firm Meraas Development, which said last year it was reviewing a $95-billion real estate project, has halted two tower projects in the emirate, London-based magazine MEED reported.

MEED said Samsung Engineering and Construction (028050.KS) has stopped providing pre-construction services for Meraas's 1-Dubai tower, while also shelving plans for another high-rise office building, according to an unsourced report on MEED's website on Tuesday. Meraas chief executive Sina al-Kazim declined to comment.

Dubai's property sector is suffering a sharp slowdown after a six-year building boom spurred by its move to allow foreign investors to buy properties and because of buoyant growth in Gulf economies during an oil price rally.

Dubai residential real estate prices have fallen by an average of 25 percent since a peak in September, Morgan Stanley said last month, adding some $263 billion of projects had been cancelled or put on hold in the United Arab Emirates. State-owned Meraas said in December it was reviewing its $95-billion Jumeirah Gardens project, launched two months earlier at a Dubai property exhibition.

Last week, Dubai's Union Properties UPRO.DU said it was suspending construction of its $460 million Formula One theme park due to the financial crisis and the drying up of liquidity from banks.


http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssF...47678220090304
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Old March 4th, 2009, 09:46 AM   #15275
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[QUOTE=dbxdude;33126284]
Instead they look towards Schools for an indication of what the population is doing. So far Gems has 150,000 transfer requests pending for term end. Lets say 50,000 are internal transfers - ie from one school in the UAE to another School. That leaves 100,000 External transfers - so lets say each family has 2 children, thats 50,000 families, or 100,000 potenital adult workers.

And thats just Gems school and thats just April.


QUOTE]

Gems is managing around 51 schools all over the world with less than a total of 100,000 students. ( more than 85,000) Dubai has 19 schools ,4 in abudhabi , 1 in Al ain & fujairah ,2 in sharjah, 11 in europe and UK ,1 in Saudi,2 in Qatar,1 in jordan, 6 in india , 2 in Kuwait and one in Libya.

Re -do your calculations !!!!!
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Old March 4th, 2009, 10:04 AM   #15276
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does anyone know how much dubai islamic bank charges for transferring money back to the UK? the developer tameer wants to charge me to transfer my own money back to me! do the banks in uae charge stupid amounts to do this?
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Old March 4th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #15277
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Mortgage is still debt. It isn't automatically the best kind of debt, in fact, renting is a better financial decision in many circumstances, even in times boom.

dxbdude - please read this >>> http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html then tell us what you REALLY think of Rich Dad Poor Dad

Here's the summary:

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the dumbest financial advice books I have ever read. It contains many factual errors and numerous extremely unlikely accounts of events that supposedly occurred.

Kiyosaki is a salesman and a motivational speaker. He has no financial expertise and won’t disclose his supposed real estate or other investment success.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.

Last edited by peacesells; March 4th, 2009 at 10:48 AM. Reason: summary
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Old March 4th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #15278
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Rich Dad, Poor Dad is one of the dumbest financial advice books I have ever read. It contains many factual errors and numerous extremely unlikely accounts of events that supposedly occurred.

Kiyosaki is a salesman and a motivational speaker. He has no financial expertise and won’t disclose his supposed real estate or other investment success.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad contains much wrong advice, much bad advice, some dangerous advice, and virtually no good advice.
Errrr,so who was it that recommended I read it?
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Old March 4th, 2009, 11:13 AM   #15279
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Mortgage is still debt. It isn't automatically the best kind of debt, in fact, renting is a better financial decision in many circumstances, even in times boom.
[/i]
Yes Mortgage is still debt but why do you say renting is better?
Its like throwing money away.
Infact,a Mortgage isnt just a debt,its an investment also.You buy a property and watch it rise in value.
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Old March 4th, 2009, 11:15 AM   #15280
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The underlying premise of all of his books is that it is hard to become wealthy and financialy free if your working for someone unless your a superstat (ie tiger woods). I did read the above critique some years ago when i first read the richdad poor dad books and it is just a hatchet job. Most people who i have met have been successful financially, whether they have read the book or not operate and think in a similar vein. I think the books are good. IMHO the best and simplest way to broaden your mind with regards to wealth accumulation.

Mark Shipman - Commodities the next big boom - is also a very good book and can be applied word for word to dubais boom and bust.

Anyway, its a bit of topic and im kind of done arguing with people as to whether a mortgage is a debt or not or if its a good idea to lock people up who cant pay it. Everyone want speculators to hurt, most of which have left the market and are now entering as buyers of distress property anyway. I was just a bit worried about the common man caught up in this mess cause he was getting on a plane and this is the heart and soul of Dubai, now frankly, i cant be bothered to discuss it in this forum. Lock em all up, i care not.
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