What it means to be "Arab" in Africa

[BUTEMBO21]

This Arab , Black-Arab is confusing i can't understand it at all. I think only the Arabs, and the so called Black-Arabs know who they really are , other wise we are just wasting time here.

[intensivecarebear]

I don't understand why there is so much anti-arab/north african attitude in this forum. we're the bad guys because of slavery, but slaves came from all over the mediterranean, Balkans, and other areas of Europe too. Slavery, no matter where in the world, has never been just about race.

Aren't all the tribal and ethnic conflicts that are rampant in ss africa more important to address if Africa is ever going to progress, instead of always blaming the 'white' arabs or europeans. And some people on this forum, their claims of whites vs. blacks in sudan or mauritania is just plain wrong!

And with regards to Arabs, even the non-black "Arabs" do not have the same genetics, ethnicity, or even history. Ex. Morocco is a very different country from Egypt, Syria, Yemen, etc. Everything is not black and white, jeez.

[Yuba]

The chat in this list initially started (I presume) with the idea of what is an Arab in Africa, then there were some fallacies of the sort:
"Moroccans and Somalis are almost identical paternal-“genetic wise”, there is almost nothing Arab about Moroccans."

Our friend did not correctly read the graph he included from http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v.../5201390a.html in his posting.

Others take every opportunity to hit at Arabs because of reasons they only know.

As a rectification, please understand that the major make-up of Moroccans is of Berber origins. Those Berbers are the Indigenous population of Morocco and North Africa, The second major ethnic element in the make-up of Moroccans is Arab. Then it is followed by Eurasians (Phoenicians= Cartagenans, Roman, Vandals, Iberians and Europeans) and finally the Africans. Historically:
• The Phoenician element came first with their settlement in some harbors of Morocco to trade with the indigenous Berbers.
• The Iberians ethnic element came mainly during the conquest of and extensive immigration to what is today’s Spain, Portugal and the South of France as well as the reversed immigration after the reconquista of Spain (Andalus).
• The Roman/Byzantine element came with the Roman then Byzantine occupation of the seashores of Morocco.
• The Vandals (Germanic) element came with their sweeping razzia and brief occupation of Morocco after the fall of Rome.
• The Arab ethnic element came with their conquest and extensive immigration and settlements.
• The African element came through trade, slavery and soldiering during the Conquest of sub-Saharan Africa (including Mauritania, Mali, Senegal) by the Al-Moravids dynasty and ending with the recruiting of soldiers from Senegal by King Moulay Ismail of the AL-Alaoui Dynasty.
• The Jewish element came with the intermarriage of converted Jews with the two major ethnic groups (Berbers & Arabs) as well as the reversed immigration of the Jews and their settlement in small, tight and closed communities in Morocco after the reconquista of Spain (Andalus).


It should be noted, however, that:
• Berbers culturally assimilated all previous historical settlers as well as Sub-Saharans (completely) and also the first waves of Arabs, before self-assimilating themselves (by choice) into the Arabic culture which brought Islam with it. Indeed there are in Morocco instances of some Berber tribes which were originally Arab and some Arab tribes which were originally Berber.

For the record:
• The Jewish element in the genetic makeup of Moroccans is almost insignificant until the reconquista. It is even weaker than the Greek element (among others) introduced by the Romans and the “Anatolian” (from today’s Turkey) element introduced by the Byzantines.

As of 2009, officially ethnic groups living in Morocco are as follows: Arab-Berber 99.1%, other (European) 0.7%, Jewish 0.2% (CIA Factbook). Within that 99.1 Percent of Arab Berbers, 30% speak Berber and identify as Berbers, and Another sizeable portion (at least 30%) identify themselves as Berber. The remaining 39% identify themselves as Arab.


This is as far as our up-to-date facts and findings in history and archeology can tell us. As per recent genetic studies, please consult the graphs and the table of the Human mitochondrial DNA sequence variation in the Moroccan population of the Souss area published on July 16, 2008 in the article: “Morocco and North African Mitochondrial DNA study” in Mathilda’s Anthropology Blog:
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wor...rial-dna-study
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wor...ial-dna-study/

From the study, we learn few things:
Historical Berbers (the 30% mentioned above) in general are more Caucasian than African (if by African we mean Sub-Saharan Black African).
• From the North of Morocco to its South, Berbers display varying sub-Saharan ancestry.
• North central Berbers in Morocco have a very low amount of Sub-Saharan ancestry.
• Souss Berbers (south of Morocco and the region of Marrakesh display more Sub-Saharan ancestry (historically, it makes sense as Marrakesh was the Terminus of the Caravan route going north as well as the Capital of King Youssef Ibn Tashafin of the Almoravids and Al- Almohads.)
• Berbers are genetically closer to the Spanish, Druze (of Lebanon and Syria= Most probably descendents of the Historical Phoenicians) British, Swiss, then Basque people (living in the North of Spain and South of France).
• Sahraoui (people of the Moroccan deserts display or share some genetic elements with the Berbers and the Africans.
• Mozabites (also called M’zab) and Moroccan Arabs or share with the Berbers some genetic element.
• The Senegalese gene element in the gene tree of the study is closer to the Sahraoui, Mozabite and Moroccan Arabs (the remaining 30% discussed above) than to the Berbers from Souss. It is even more distinct from the North/Central Berbers.
(n.b.: if there is any error in the reading of the graph, please enlighten me.)

Conclusions:
• Morocco is made principally of two Major Ethnic Groups.
• Some statements that you find in the internet calling the Moors (Moroccans) as black Africans is false and unscientific. But to call Moroccans as Africans is geographically correct, and emotionally heart-warming (i.e. Nobody has the right to highjack their identity for his personal or ideological agenda).
• Through its Berber genetic element and the widely used French Language, Morocco is closer to Europe, and through its Arabic genetic element as well as language and Islam Morocco is closer to The Arabian Peninsula.
• The African (Black African) genetic element is present, but not major. Culturally, only few aspects of it survive especially Gnawa Music and very few design motifs).

Black Power like White Supremacy are repugnant motto’s to live by.

I am black. I am white. I am purple some times.
I am Africain. I am European. I am an Atlant some times.
I am Moroccan. I am Somali. I am nobody some times.

Your identity is what you-the individual-think you are. But remembeeeeeeer.


“You are from Adam and Adam is from earth” Koran.

“Love thy neighbor…” (Bible).

Really

“If each man or woman could understand that every other human life is as full of sorrows, or joys, or base temptations,
of heartaches and of remorse as his own . . . how much kinder, how much gentler he would be.” A wise man.

Sorry for been long!

[simohamed13]

ARE ALGERIAN PEOPLE ARAB? answer: majoritary berber
e3b and ExE3b are berber haplotypes j (in green) = arab haplotype (semitic)


algerians = berbers arabized