daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > Metropolis & States > New York City

New York City Development News | WTC | Naked NY



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 14th, 2007, 03:28 AM   #81
Metsfan1520
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 61
Likes (Received): 0

This project is indeed necessary as the present penn station one of the worst architectural tragedies in new york history. new york is a world class city so it deserves a world class train station. the present plans are terrible. msg should not overshadow the new station. in the picture below i offer an alternative. a new office building could be build on the site of the present msg(blue). The entire farely post office should be devoted to the new train station(green). a new msg should be built over the exposed rail lines and parking lots between 9th and 10th avenue(red). This location would give msg access to the new residential and commercial developments at the west side rail yards(purple). further heightening the appeal of location(red).
[IMG][/IMG]


here is a closer look at my proposed site for a new msg
[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by Metsfan1520; August 14th, 2007 at 03:34 AM.
Metsfan1520 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old November 20th, 2007, 06:53 AM   #82
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 75,383
Likes (Received): 6621

Plans slowly moving forward for new Penn Station in NYC
19 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Picture Penn Station with a sloping, glass-paneled roof, natural sunlight pouring in and thousands of passengers passing through a huge, majestic concourse just like Grand Central Terminal.

That was 1963, and that Penn Station is gone. The Beaux-Arts landmark was demolished and replaced by the Madison Square Garden sports arena and a dark, underground warren of passages and platforms that make up the nation's busiest train station.

Maura Moynihan, daughter of the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, calls it "the pit."

"It is an offense ... not just to transportation, but to good taste generally," she said.

After more than a decade of false starts, a $14 billion plan is moving forward to rebuild the station -- which would be named after Moynihan, a longtime fundraising advocate for a new hub -- and the dingy neighborhood surrounding it.

It hinges on Madison Square Garden agreeing to sell its arena on the spot where the original station stood, and move into an annex in a landmark post office building across the street.

That building, the James A. Farley Post Office, would also house a grand atrium with glass ceilings for more than 550,000 passengers who pass through the station each day -- more people than use all three New York City-area airports put together. More than 5 million square feet of commercial and retail space would be built around it, in a new city business district similar to one that enlivened the area around Grand Central decades earlier.

"That district is the poor stepcousin of Midtown," said Vishaan Chakrabarti, president of the Moynihan Station Venture, the project's developers. "It's really the last area that really hasn't been revitalized."

The venture includes Related Cos. and Vornado Realty Trust; Vornado owns more than 6 million square feet of commercial space in the neighborhood, as well as a hotel just outside the district that is being pursued as a possible new headquarters for Merrill Lynch. Just west of the train station, billions of dollars in new development is planned along the Hudson River waterfront.

Redeveloping the station and the area around it has been talked about for over a decade, and designs of the main concourse have been revised for the past eight years. The state Empire State Development Corp., under the administration of former Gov. George Pataki, last year failed to win approval of the three-member Public Authorities Control Board to go forward. The board said at the time that the plan needed to be bigger, addressing the needs of the entire train station -- home to Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, Long Island Rail Road trains and half a dozen subway lines.

The agency presented a new version to the public last month, proposing rebuilding the entire station for about $2 billion, moving the Garden to the post office and creating the new business district to spur high-end commercial development.

Negotiations for virtually every aspect of the project are still under way. The Postal Service has sold most of the building to the Empire State Development Corp., although it will still keep a historic, 24-hour lobby with Tiffany's furniture open for business. The developers and the agency are discussing funding for the station; public funding from federal, state and city sources could amount to less than $1 billion, said the agency's downstate chairman, Patrick Foye.

It also needs approval of Amtrak, which owns the station. Spokesman Clifford Cole said Amtrak supports the project but wants assurances that a new station will make more space available for riders, such as waiting areas and better stores and restaurants.

Mostly, it needs the Garden, whose plans have already riled preservationists worried that moving a sports arena into a landmark building would threaten a piece of history in the same way the old Penn Station was destroyed in 1963.

"We don't want history to repeat itself here," said Peg Breen, president of the New York Landmarks Conservancy. "There is no need for the Garden to wreck Farley."

The post office is considered a crown jewel of New York City architecture, with its imposing Corinthian columns and gigantic staircase.

Breen and other preservationists deride reports that owners of the Garden plan to build a glass wall facing the concourse, saying it would overwhelm the train station. They worry that billboards advertising rock concerts and basketball games would be draped over the columns outside the building.

Said Foye: "We are very focused on the preservation issues at Farley ... We have not agreed to a glass wall." He also said billboards would not obstruct the columns and facade on the building's Eighth Avenue exterior.

Garden officials declined comment on their needs for the arena, beyond an earlier statement that they are "continuing to explore all opportunities" in the neighborhood, including moving the Garden.

If the arena does not agree to move, it plans to renovate the existing arena, blocking redevelopment of the train station under the arena.

"I don't want to have to be the person to have to explain to 600,000 passengers ... that they didn't get a new Penn Station because someone objected to a glass wall," said Chakrabarti.

And Maura Moynihan, who belongs to a civic group promoting the project, said her father would approve, despite the many arguments over the design.

"This is a chance that will never come again," she said. "We can't ask for perfection from any project at this late date. We have to move quickly."
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg | Moscow | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Sydney | Hanoi | Bangkok | Prague

New York, London, Seoul, Taipei, Mumbai, Tokyo, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 20th, 2007, 07:20 AM   #83
ElCrioyo
Ed.v.cas.baeZ
 
ElCrioyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bronx, NYC- Santo Domingo, Dominican Rep
Posts: 2,298
Likes (Received): 339

i hate penn station...its so ugly and its crazy that i have to go there every two weeks when i get home from Stony Brook Uni....

It would've been so much better if they kept it like the grand central Station in the other side of manhattan
ElCrioyo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 22nd, 2007, 03:46 AM   #84
TalB
BANNED
 
TalB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 7,543
Likes (Received): 39

I find the new stationhouse to be overrated. Also, the General Post Office just got its rennovation on the 8th Ave side finished, so I don't know why they want to ruin that building. I will not argue that building MSG over the original stationhouse was the wrong move, and that it should have been over the Hudson Yds instead, but we cannot change the past. Since most people entering it either via the subway, LIRR, NJ Transit, or even Amtrak will be underground, many of the riders will not even the see the new stationhouse unless they are going out from there. BTW, Daniel Patrick Moynihan does have his name on a building and that is at the NYS Supreme Courthouse over at Foley Sq, and I know this b/c I saw his portrait when I entered inside it for jurry duty and his name is on the entrance at Foley Sq.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 23rd, 2007, 05:33 AM   #85
geoking66
Registered User
 
geoking66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 411
Likes (Received): 1

I really can't stand how everyone wants only Penn Station to be utilised. In London and Paris, the multiple-terminus method is much more effective. You'd think with the multitude of lines operating into New York City, there should be one for Amtrak, LIRR, MNRR, NJT, PATH (well two termini because of WTC and 33 Street), and Downtown. An orbital line connecting them would be useful.
geoking66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2007, 12:11 AM   #86
TalB
BANNED
 
TalB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 7,543
Likes (Received): 39

Unfortunately, NYC is not like London and Paris when it comes to having a consolidated stationhouse.
TalB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2007, 03:31 AM   #87
ramvid01
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 754
Likes (Received): 51

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoking66 View Post
I really can't stand how everyone wants only Penn Station to be utilised. In London and Paris, the multiple-terminus method is much more effective. You'd think with the multitude of lines operating into New York City, there should be one for Amtrak, LIRR, MNRR, NJT, PATH (well two termini because of WTC and 33 Street), and Downtown. An orbital line connecting them would be useful.
The reason this is not like this in New York is pretty simple. When these original railroads were built some of the railways did not have the money to build a tunnel and buy land for a terminus in Manhattan. Only two were built on Manhattan (Penn Station and Grand Central), while one was built on the New Jersey side of the Hudson and another is in Queens.
ramvid01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2008, 06:37 PM   #88
Don Omar
Bark twice if in Milwauke
 
Don Omar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nueva York
Posts: 488
Likes (Received): 18

a breaking news! alert from the Friends of Moynihan Station.

Port Authority to manage the Moynihan Station project with Chris Ward as its director

The New York Observer reports that Governor Paterson is "fed up with the delays" at Moynihan Station and wants to put the project back on track by making the Port Authority the lead agency on the project, instead of the Empire State Development Corporation. In addition, the Governor is expected to announce this afternoon that Chris Ward, managing director of the General Contractors Association and a co-chair of the Friends of Moynihan Station, will be appointed Port Authority Director.

Overall this is good news for Moynihan Station. A move to the Port Authority, especially with Ward at its head, will infuse the project with new leadership and funding. (An ESDC Chair to replace Pat Foye, who resigned last month, still has not been announced.) There is legitimate concern, however, that the Port in the past has sometimes operated too secretively; the Friends will work with the agency and make sure it is held accountable.


Juliette D. Michaelson
Senior Planner, Regional Plan Association
212 253 2727 x312, jmichaelson@rpa.org
__________________
Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten
From the Battery to the top of Manhattan
Asian, Middle-Eastern and Latin
Black, White, New York you make it happen

- Beastie Boys
Don Omar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2008, 08:46 PM   #89
storms991
Leicester:NY:London
 
storms991's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 430
Likes (Received): 12

Knock down MSG and rebuild the old station I say!
storms991 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2008, 09:20 PM   #90
Dale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 7,967
Likes (Received): 1794

Is this thing going anywhere ?
Dale no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2008, 06:26 AM   #91
Dale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 7,967
Likes (Received): 1794

Any news at all ?
Dale no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 04:30 AM   #92
Skyling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 33
Likes (Received): 0

nothing yet?
Skyling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2009, 01:51 PM   #93
redbaron_012
Registered User
 
redbaron_012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 8,045
Likes (Received): 883

Couldn't they just do this......in reverse ?


__________________
"Make no small plans, for they have not power to stir the blood" - Daniel H. Burnham
redbaron_012 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 17th, 2009, 06:45 AM   #94
micrip
Registered User
 
micrip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 2,878
Likes (Received): 153

First we get retro ballparks (Camden Yards and its successors) and now we have retro train stations. I saw the old Penn Station as a kid on a class trip to NYC, and still remember how awesome it was. NYC was bigger than life to an 11 year old, and arrving at that station just reinforced that thought. It should have never been torn down.
__________________
GO RAVENS!!

CNB30 liked this post
micrip no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 18th, 2009, 12:31 AM   #95
JohnFlint1985
I love New York
 
JohnFlint1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York - New Jersey
Posts: 14,234
Likes (Received): 4322

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Omar View Post
a breaking news! alert from the Friends of Moynihan Station.

Port Authority to manage the Moynihan Station project with Chris Ward as its director

The New York Observer reports that Governor Paterson is "fed up with the delays" at Moynihan Station and wants to put the project back on track by making the Port Authority the lead agency on the project, instead of the Empire State Development Corporation. In addition, the Governor is expected to announce this afternoon that Chris Ward, managing director of the General Contractors Association and a co-chair of the Friends of Moynihan Station, will be appointed Port Authority Director.

Overall this is good news for Moynihan Station. A move to the Port Authority, especially with Ward at its head, will infuse the project with new leadership and funding. (An ESDC Chair to replace Pat Foye, who resigned last month, still has not been announced.) There is legitimate concern, however, that the Port in the past has sometimes operated too secretively; the Friends will work with the agency and make sure it is held accountable.


Juliette D. Michaelson
Senior Planner, Regional Plan Association
212 253 2727 x312, jmichaelson@rpa.org
Pardon me for saying this, but Chris Ward is a major bureaucrat and hardly a competent man for this job. just look at his really ugly and shameful role in the WTC negotiations. They cannot agree on the WTC development which is more well known then Penn station and all he does is stalling anything he can.
__________________
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.” Thomas Jefferson
"We Shall Never Surrender." Winston Churchill
“Not all those who wander are lost.” J.R.R. Tolkien
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." Oscar Wilde
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
JohnFlint1985 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2013, 06:07 AM   #96
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 45,789
Likes (Received): 18523

The Battle Of Madison Square Garden

This week, Madison Square Garden's permit to operate an arena came up for renewal. Community Board 5 which has tired of efforts by MSG to remain at their critical site directly above the woeful 1967 Pennsylvania Station replacement, is signalling their disdain for the arena and want the property back so Penn Station can grow. The war is heating up on all sides:



image hosted on flickr

Madison Square Garden by Rheingold_Room, on Flickr

Fresh off $800+ million in redevelopment, MSG has little appetite for a move. Trouble is, they overlooked that little thing called a Temporary Operating Permit!
__________________
We are floating in space...

Last edited by desertpunk; February 15th, 2013 at 06:21 AM.
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #97
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 45,789
Likes (Received): 18523

What began as an application for massive LED signage outside MSG has now morphed into an existential battle for the arena itself!




Smackdown At MSG: Community Board 5 Wants Penn Station Back



Quote:
Madison Square Garden’s special permit to operate as an arena expired in January, and a move by the arena to secure a long-term renewal has evoked mixed reactions in the community, DNAinfo reported.

Fifty years ago, the City Planning Commission issued MSG a special permit which allows it to seat 2,500 people, according to a planning document viewed by DNAinfo. But since Jan. 24, the arena has been relying on a Temporary Certificate of Occupancy, which is set to run out in April.

In an effort to secure a permanent permit, MSG appeared before Community Board 5′s land use committee last week, but the committee said that the arena has no business sitting atop Penn Station, which slows down improvements to the city’s most important train station. They added that it would consider a 10-year lease which would give the community a chance to weigh in again in the future.

“The 10-year renewal is an attempt to create a planning period to figure out another location for the Garden,” Raju Mann, acting chairman of CB5′s land use committee, told DNAinfo. “The reason we would like MSG to relocate is because the Garden sits atop Penn Station, which is North America’s most important train station, but is unfortunately woefully over capacity.”

MSG is currently going through the city’s ULURP process to renew its special permit, having also recently sought permission to waive existing rules and install four 77-foot LED display panels on the stadium’s exterior, in a fashion akin to Times Square.
__________________
We are floating in space...

Last edited by desertpunk; February 15th, 2013 at 06:20 AM.
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2013, 06:17 AM   #98
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 45,789
Likes (Received): 18523

Should Madison Square Garden's Permit Be Renewed?

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmac2011uk/

Quote:
Thursday, February 14, 2013, by Sara Polsky

New York Times archicritic Michael Kimmelman is a known non-fan of Madison Square Garden, and he takes aim at the arena—"a daily blight" for Penn Station commuters—again on the occasion of its permit renewal application. The application goes before Community Board 5 tonight, and after recommendations from the City Planning Commission and the borough president, the City Council will make a decision. The Garden would like the permit, most recently valid for 50 years, to be good forever, and Kimmelman thinks the Council should give that request a resounding no. Among his reasons why:

Quote:
1) The proposed 17,300-square-foot screens on four sides of the arena "could only further degrade the neighborhood."

2) Amtrak, Long Island Rail Road, and New Jersey Transit are working on their own area improvement plans, but the Garden must take part in order "heal one of the most painful wounds the city has ever inflicted on itself," and the Garden has had no apparent interest in being involved.

3) And if the impact on the neighborhood doesn't matter to the City Council, maybe shame will. The Garden has, Kimmelman argues, been "made to look even worse by the arrival of the spanking new and striking Barclays Center in Brooklyn."
__________________
We are floating in space...

TowerVerre:) liked this post
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #99
Renna Hazel
Registered User
 
Renna Hazel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York City
Posts: 105
Likes (Received): 10

If they have to move after that massive renovation that would be really strange. I'm sure they'll renew the permit, they can't cancel all of the events they have planned. The 3 point argument against it sounds really weak.
Renna Hazel no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #100
desertpunk
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
 
desertpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ELP ~ ABQ
Posts: 45,789
Likes (Received): 18523

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renna Hazel View Post
If they have to move after that massive renovation that would be really strange. I'm sure they'll renew the permit, they can't cancel all of the events they have planned. The 3 point argument against it sounds really weak.
It seems crazy, but it's like a dam burst and 50 years of pent up rage towards MSG and the loss of the old Pennsylvania Station is seriously threatening the future of the arena. The permit is expired and it looks like the only way it's going to be renewed is after MSG develops a plan to vacate the site and rebuild elsewhere. If this happens, the James A. Farley Building could be back in play as a massive development site (with the 1930s building serving as the base). And the Moynihan station will disappear for good while an entirely new Penn Station gets worked out. Could be very interesting times!
__________________
We are floating in space...
desertpunk no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
nyc

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu