Eurostar Expects Passengers to Double After St. Pancras Move

***hkskyline*** · June 10th, 2005, 03:50 AM

Transport Eurostar expects Paris rush
10 June 2005
The Guardian

Eurostar expects its passenger numbers to double in the next seven years thanks to a new transport hub at St Pancras station, London.

The cross-channel train operator believes the number of people using the service will rise to 14 million a year within five years of the switch to the pounds 60m interchange at St Pancras.

The new station in the north of the capital will open to international services in 2007, making it easier for passengers travelling from the north to catch Eurostar trains.

Paul Charles, director of communications at Eurostar, said the 14 million target was "achievable", though still well off targets set before the service started running.

"Forecasts made in the late 1980s and early 1990s were ridiculous," he said.

"They assumed people would travel from Manchester to Barcelona by train."

Under the original predictions, Eurostar would already have broken through the 14 million barrier.

Mr Charles also said that Eurostar was still looking at proposals to start running direct Eurostar services to Amsterdam and Cologne, though not for a further three years. - PA

Madman · June 10th, 2005, 09:44 AM

I still think they are being a bit optimistic...Anyway are they going to keep the terminal at Waterloo open after 2007? I know that if they close that terminal it'll mean a lot of people in the Home Counties will be less likely to travel by Eurostar and i bet they get a lot of their trade from people living in Hants/Surrey/Berks/Sussex.

Philip Cronin · June 10th, 2005, 10:31 AM

They're closing it. It was announced months ago. It would be too expensive to operate both.

Bob · June 10th, 2005, 10:58 AM

I too hope they still use Waterloo as those from the southern commuter belt would be less likely to travel north of the river. If the platforms at waterloo remain (which looks likely) I can't see there being a massive cost for this. If they got rid of our pointless border controls the whole thing would be a lot simpler and cheaper. Why do we have to scan our luggage on this train and no others???

Good to read they are still looking at Cologne as a destination. I was over that way last week and the new Liege - Cologne high speed link is well under construction with some bridges already complete.

Take a look at the new Liege station!
http://en.euro-liege-tgv.be/sites/15..._CATEGORIE=224

map of new and upgraded track
http://en.euro-liege-tgv.be/sites/15...CATEGORIE=1181

Harry · June 10th, 2005, 02:07 PM

I seem to remember reading that the Eurostar platforms at Waterloo will be taken over by South West Trains...something SWT are very happy about because it increases capacity on the suburban commuter routes.

It is a shame that Eurostar will leave Waterloo. And as a resident of Putney (SW London), I for one will be much less likely to use the service after the move to St Pancras. I imagine that several million others will feel the same.

On a related point, does anyone know how the interchange at Stratford will work. I think the new Eurostar station is called 'Stratford East', implying that the Eurostar will call at a different station to the existing tube and overland lines. Just how easy will the interchanges be at Stratford?

DarJoLe · June 10th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

It is a shame that Eurostar will leave Waterloo. And as a resident of Putney (SW London), I for one will be much less likely to use the service after the move to St Pancras.

What, an extra ten minutes to cross the West end? Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

I imagine that several million others will feel the same.

And what about the people who live in, say, Islington? Do they currently say 'ooh can't face that journey down to Waterloo, can't be bothered to go now?' Oh course not. There's more people north of St Pancras than south of Waterloo - looks like they'll be happy then, and more likely to use the service.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

On a related point, does anyone know how the interchange at Stratford will work. I think the new Eurostar station is called 'Stratford East', implying that the Eurostar will call at a different station to the existing tube and overland lines. Just how easy will the interchanges be at Stratford?

Stratford International will connect to the DLR, which connects south to Stratford Regional (existing Stratford), Stratford High Street, Abbey Lane, West Ham, Star Lane, Canning Town, etc.

There is a ten minute walk between Stratford International and Stratford Regional overground, which will probably be by travelator. However, it's anticipated not many people will use this 'connection' - the trains go into Central London, so they wouldn't need to use this to connect to train routes, and the Jubilee Line can be accessed by taking the DLR to Canning Town from the International station.

Bob · June 10th, 2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

There is a ten minute walk between Stratford International and Stratford Regional overground, which will probably be by travelator. However, it's anticipated not many people will use this 'connection' - the trains go into Central London, so they wouldn't need to use this to connect to train routes, and the Jubilee Line can be accessed by taking the DLR to Canning Town from the International station.

I thought the travellator was all signed and sealled? The two stations are only 400m apart so I reckon most people will use the travellator. Personally I couldn't be arsed to change trains again for such a short trip.

Englishman · June 10th, 2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

I seem to remember reading that the Eurostar platforms at Waterloo will be taken over by South West Trains...something SWT are very happy about because it increases capacity on the suburban commuter routes.

It is a shame that Eurostar will leave Waterloo. And as a resident of Putney (SW London), I for one will be much less likely to use the service after the move to St Pancras. I imagine that several million others will feel the same.

On a related point, does anyone know how the interchange at Stratford will work. I think the new Eurostar station is called 'Stratford East', implying that the Eurostar will call at a different station to the existing tube and overland lines. Just how easy will the interchanges be at Stratford?

I agree to a point. It was great when I lived in Southampton going Brussels. 2 trains and I was there!

Now there will be the hassle of an extra 2 tube lines that will add about 25 minutes once you factor in the waiting and walking times. And you proabbly want to get on the northern line to do it which is ordinarily pretty busy anyway. It will no doubt be getting shut for months at a time for maintanance work too.

where I live in SE London it will add a little less time as I can change at London bridge and get a train to Kingscross in stead, but that is probably gonna take the same length extra due to a less frequent service.

And it's not so much the thing of time as inconvenience for many people. i'd rather one in 3 trains still went to waterloo i think.

Englishman · June 10th, 2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry

I seem to remember reading that the Eurostar platforms at Waterloo will be taken over by South West Trains...something SWT are very happy about because it increases capacity on the suburban commuter routes.

It is a shame that Eurostar will leave Waterloo. And as a resident of Putney (SW London), I for one will be much less likely to use the service after the move to St Pancras. I imagine that several million others will feel the same.

On a related point, does anyone know how the interchange at Stratford will work. I think the new Eurostar station is called 'Stratford East', implying that the Eurostar will call at a different station to the existing tube and overland lines. Just how easy will the interchanges be at Stratford?

i thought the travelator wasn't happening due to costs nhow. and also i thought there were talks that waterloo's eurostar terminal would be turned into shops or something crap instead.

Leeds No.1 · June 10th, 2005, 05:24 PM

Well Crossrail (when eventually finished) will solve the problems of getting to St. Pancras. It is better for the eurostar to be at St. Pancras because it is ideally located near Euston and Kings Cross, and it will be very easy for the millions of people north of London to change. Eventually, I expect there will be a European High Speed Rail Network operated by Eurostar linking Europe's major cities- that means that eurostar routes will be extended north of the capital

nicksanderson · June 10th, 2005, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Cronin

They're closing it. It was announced months ago. It would be too expensive to operate both.

What's really bad is that this may not end up as extra platforms for the commuter trains (which are desperatly needed) but as more shops!

samsonyuen · June 10th, 2005, 10:47 PM

There's definitely a lot of demand for more platforms from the commuter trains. What I don't get is where it stops. It goes from Kings Cross, stops at Stratford International, and then stops somewhere near Kent? Is that correct?

DarJoLe · June 10th, 2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Well Crossrail (when eventually finished) will solve the problems of getting to St. Pancras. It is better for the eurostar to be at St. Pancras because it is ideally located near Euston and Kings Cross, and it will be very easy for the millions of people north of London to change. Eventually, I expect there will be a European High Speed Rail Network operated by Eurostar linking Europe's major cities- that means that eurostar routes will be extended north of the capital

Eh? Crossrail doesn't stop at King's Cross.

Rational Plan · June 10th, 2005, 11:32 PM

Maybe he means Thameslink 2000 (well 2012 if were lucky). As far as the old terminal at Waterloo, SWT proposes to move long distance serices into the terminal. extend platforms at certain key stations so that 15 coach commuter trains could run from Southampton and Bournemouth. The rest of the platforms woudl be reprofiled (losing a at least one pair so they can all take 10 car trains allowing the surburban services to increase in capacity by 25%. This also requires a new flyover north of Clapham and soem remodelling at Wimbledon. The government has countered with a study propsing Waterloo Intl be demolished and land sold off for offices and retail. This propbaly a gambit so that when all that happens is that the Windsor and Reading line trains shuffle over into the spare platforms and there is less platform congestion at Waterloo, we are all jolly grateful. So while there would be no extra capacity and very little money spent, there would be fewer late trains! So as far as the governemnt is concerned the perfect result.

June 10th, 2005, 03:50 AM	#1
*hkskyline* Hong Kong Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 71,053 Likes (Received): 838	Eurostar Expects Passengers to Double After St. Pancras Move Transport Eurostar expects Paris rush 10 June 2005 The Guardian Eurostar expects its passenger numbers to double in the next seven years thanks to a new transport hub at St Pancras station, London. The cross-channel train operator believes the number of people using the service will rise to 14 million a year within five years of the switch to the pounds 60m interchange at St Pancras. The new station in the north of the capital will open to international services in 2007, making it easier for passengers travelling from the north to catch Eurostar trains. Paul Charles, director of communications at Eurostar, said the 14 million target was "achievable", though still well off targets set before the service started running. "Forecasts made in the late 1980s and early 1990s were ridiculous," he said. "They assumed people would travel from Manchester to Barcelona by train." Under the original predictions, Eurostar would already have broken through the 14 million barrier. Mr Charles also said that Eurostar was still looking at proposals to start running direct Eurostar services to Amsterdam and Cologne, though not for a further three years. - PA __________________ Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries World Photo Gallery - \| New York \| London \| Egypt \| Dubai \| Shanghai \| Xian \| Tokyo \| Kyoto \| Prague Beijing, Seoul, Taipei, Mumbai, Iceland, Sydney, Rocky Mountains, Toronto, and much more!

June 10th, 2005, 05:24 PM	#10
Leeds No.1 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Leeds, EU Posts: 22,303 Likes (Received): 102	Well Crossrail (when eventually finished) will solve the problems of getting to St. Pancras. It is better for the eurostar to be at St. Pancras because it is ideally located near Euston and Kings Cross, and it will be very easy for the millions of people north of London to change. Eventually, I expect there will be a European High Speed Rail Network operated by Eurostar linking Europe's major cities- that means that eurostar routes will be extended north of the capital __________________ "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure, It is our light not our darkness, that frightens us"

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June 10th, 2005, 09:44 AM	#2
Madman London 2012 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire / Bloomsbury Posts: 2,856 Likes (Received): 1	I still think they are being a bit optimistic...Anyway are they going to keep the terminal at Waterloo open after 2007? I know that if they close that terminal it'll mean a lot of people in the Home Counties will be less likely to travel by Eurostar and i bet they get a lot of their trade from people living in Hants/Surrey/Berks/Sussex.

June 10th, 2005, 10:31 AM	#3
Philip Cronin Senior member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London Posts: 209 Likes (Received): 0	They're closing it. It was announced months ago. It would be too expensive to operate both.

June 10th, 2005, 10:58 AM	#4
Bob Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London Posts: 2,321 Likes (Received): 3	I too hope they still use Waterloo as those from the southern commuter belt would be less likely to travel north of the river. If the platforms at waterloo remain (which looks likely) I can't see there being a massive cost for this. If they got rid of our pointless border controls the whole thing would be a lot simpler and cheaper. Why do we have to scan our luggage on this train and no others??? Good to read they are still looking at Cologne as a destination. I was over that way last week and the new Liege - Cologne high speed link is well under construction with some bridges already complete. Take a look at the new Liege station! http://en.euro-liege-tgv.be/sites/15..._CATEGORIE=224 map of new and upgraded track http://en.euro-liege-tgv.be/sites/15...CATEGORIE=1181

June 10th, 2005, 02:07 PM	#5
Harry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 352 Likes (Received): 0	I seem to remember reading that the Eurostar platforms at Waterloo will be taken over by South West Trains...something SWT are very happy about because it increases capacity on the suburban commuter routes. It is a shame that Eurostar will leave Waterloo. And as a resident of Putney (SW London), I for one will be much less likely to use the service after the move to St Pancras. I imagine that several million others will feel the same. On a related point, does anyone know how the interchange at Stratford will work. I think the new Eurostar station is called 'Stratford East', implying that the Eurostar will call at a different station to the existing tube and overland lines. Just how easy will the interchanges be at Stratford?

June 10th, 2005, 10:47 PM	#12
samsonyuen SSLL Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Canary Wharf > CityPlace Posts: 8,534 Likes (Received): 0	There's definitely a lot of demand for more platforms from the commuter trains. What I don't get is where it stops. It goes from Kings Cross, stops at Stratford International, and then stops somewhere near Kent? Is that correct?

June 10th, 2005, 11:32 PM	#14
Rational Plan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Slough Posts: 2,794 Likes (Received): 52	Maybe he means Thameslink 2000 (well 2012 if were lucky). As far as the old terminal at Waterloo, SWT proposes to move long distance serices into the terminal. extend platforms at certain key stations so that 15 coach commuter trains could run from Southampton and Bournemouth. The rest of the platforms woudl be reprofiled (losing a at least one pair so they can all take 10 car trains allowing the surburban services to increase in capacity by 25%. This also requires a new flyover north of Clapham and soem remodelling at Wimbledon. The government has countered with a study propsing Waterloo Intl be demolished and land sold off for offices and retail. This propbaly a gambit so that when all that happens is that the Windsor and Reading line trains shuffle over into the spare platforms and there is less platform congestion at Waterloo, we are all jolly grateful. So while there would be no extra capacity and very little money spent, there would be fewer late trains! So as far as the governemnt is concerned the perfect result.