Florida high-speed rail

[HARTride 2012]

Of course this all could be a totally different story if Paula Dockery becomes Governor..........

[DWNTWN]

Watch the Miami-Dade Transportation Summit live. Chairman of the Miami-Dade County Commissioners Dennis Moss mentioned that it is imperative for Florida to 'get it together' and push for SunRail, Tri-Rail dedicated funding to get the monies necessary from the federal level for High Speed Rail.

http://miamidade.granicus.com/MediaP...2&event_id=285

[Tenenbaumster]

This is basically Florida's last chance to get it's act together on mass transit alternatives. Should it fail, I don't see a turnaround in car culture or sprawl in even the slightest of terms. It has become way out of control.

[tampasteve]

To think of this as the last chance is incorrect. Time and again other cities, states, and counties have learned that it takes one, two three, even four or five times before something passes. Cities that have funded rail often take several ballot initiatives before one passes. I believe it actually will happen this time around, but even if it does not we cannot loose hope. To give in and encourage the car culture without fighting for transit is not the way to go. There must always be people pushing for more transit - even more importantly once one line is built. Without further pushing you will be stuck with one line (be it LR, HSR, commuter rail, etc.) and never expand.

Steve

[Tenenbaumster]

Originally Posted by tampasteve

To think of this as the last chance is incorrect. Time and again other cities, states, and counties have learned that it takes one, two three, even four or five times before something passes. Cities that have funded rail often take several ballot initiatives before one passes. I believe it actually will happen this time around, but even if it does not we cannot loose hope. To give in and encourage the car culture without fighting for transit is not the way to go. There must always be people pushing for more transit - even more importantly once one line is built. Without further pushing you will be stuck with one line (be it LR, HSR, commuter rail, etc.) and never expand.

Steve

If Florida loses the Federal funds it is not going to come back around, not in the next decade. I wouldn't want to think would the traffic situation would look like at that point. I do believe there is a "too late" when it comes to bad planning. If any state is there, it's Florida.

[tampasteve]

This pot of federal money will not come back around, that is true. But the funding of federal dollars for infrastructure projects will not go away. Besides that, even if the HSR funding does go away, there are other ways to get the project done. That might be with more state funding, Amtrak intercity rail (think California) or any number of other ways. Might this amount of federal funding come back? Probably not, but there are many different programs that can be used to finance intercity rail travel. I believe that the legislators will get this one through though.

There very well may be a too late when it comes to planning, but there is never a too late to start - it just might end up costing more in the end than it would otherwise have.

Steve

[HARTride 2012]

If all else fails, there is still the possibilty of public/private partnerships too to get HSR built

[tampasteve]

Exactly, and unless I am mistaken FDOT is still in talks with Amtrak for intercity service (albeit slowed talks given the HSR possibility).

Steve

[HARTride 2012]

True...

[HeartofFlorida]

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

If all else fails, there is still the possibilty of public/private partnerships too to get HSR built

Don't forget that too was previously shot down.

[HARTride 2012]

For what reason though? I honestly can't remember at the moment...

[tampasteve]

One thing that I have been thinking about: Will the per ride price change now that we are talking federal dollars instead of local and state monies? One would think that the price would go down as funding is one of the main drivers.

Steve

[jzquince69]

If HSR doesn't get funded for FLA now, I don't see it ever happening.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

I don't see commuter rail happening either if it doesn't get funded now, and if Tri-Rail loses their funding.

[HARTride 2012]

Agreed. And to top that all off if SunRail does not go through either....

[transitrider]

I think HSR will be a failure and Tri-Rail will be next to be nearing to close down. The SunRail is a big failure, We dont need it. I would rather Amtrak to improve and increase more train service in Florida. Amtrak is close to get the new FEC line, it will happen. For the Sunset Limited, it will be no more, but a new seperate daily train to NOL from Orlando. They had been in talks to extend the Palmetto to go further south to Jacksonville instead Savannah.

[Bobdreamz]

^ how exactly is Tri Rail a failure? It been operating for 20 years and has had one of the highest ridership numbers as of late. SunRail isn't even operating yet you have already doomed it a failure. I don't have a crystal ball for HSR but I would have preferred a more concise & possibly a more profitable Orlando to Miami route first then to Tampa instead.
Amtrak is at the whim of Congress every year for it's funding and that is only because the Democrats are in Congress. If you don't remember a few years ago Bush was going to veto all subsidies for Amtrak nearly crippling the system so even their funding needs to be fixed also.

[HARTride 2012]

Funding, funding, funding for TriRail. No one wants to fund it anymore, at least no one in the Miami govt wants to.

SunRail will likely fail again if federal funding isn't secured.

HSR is a joke as it is, and the bulk of the funding will likely go to Cali cause they have their heads together on local infrastructure, FL DOES NOT!

[jzquince69]

Originally Posted by transitrider

I think HSR will be a failure and Tri-Rail will be next to be nearing to close down. The SunRail is a big failure, We dont need it. I would rather Amtrak to improve and increase more train service in Florida. Amtrak is close to get the new FEC line, it will happen. For the Sunset Limited, it will be no more, but a new seperate daily train to NOL from Orlando. They had been in talks to extend the Palmetto to go further south to Jacksonville instead Savannah.

Who exactly is we, and how is Sunrail a big failure? B/C, if you live in Orlando metro and commute to downtown from either north of downtown or south of downtown, you need it.

And who the hec is in such need to go from town to town on Amtrak? I'm getting tired of hearing about Amtrak. Commuter Rail is for workers to commute to the CBD for work. Who exactly is going to take an Amtrak train from Daytona to Deland to Orlando to Lakeland to Tampa to St. Pete for shits and giggles? Is it for work, which is what the majority of people do in this state? I don't think so. Workers don't live in Winter Haven and take Amtrak to Sarasota every day.

So lets stop comparing apples and oranges for once. And regarding Tri-Rail, they just got done double-tracking the entire route a couple of years ago. Would they do that if noone was using it? I don't think so.

On another note, I think HSR from Disney to Tampa is a complete waste of money (notice I said Disney and not OIA). HSR absolutely must go from Disney via OIA to the MIC at MIA. If it doesn't do that, then why bother? The Tampa leg is being proposed only b/c it is cost effective for the bid. I forsee that route from DIS to TAM having very few operating times compared to the rest of the Orlando metro stops (b/c noone will use them- its not even going to TPA).

So, this state needs commuter rail. And this state can use HSR to bolster tourism and business to an extent. But Tampa-Orlando for a line- I mean, unless it becomes a catalyst to push for phase 2 to Miami- will be useless and the OIA to Disney leg will end up funding the whole thing I guarantee you. And if the Tampa leg is too much of a financial strain on the rest of the system, they'll just cut down operating times or frequency.

[kevinkagy]

Tri-Rail has increased ridership for the last couple of years, and with the current Metro expansions to MIA, the new Miami Central Station, and studies to run Tri-Rail on the FEC lines, Tri-Rail will continue to gain ridership. It proves very successful, and even late night trains, run busy. Losing Tri-Rail would be a HUGE blow to Miami's transit.