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Old July 19th, 2005, 10:20 AM   #21
Fred2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di Livio
I can't see this one happening personally. It's a small site very close to the city centre, and if the design doesn't measure up it could be a monumental eyesore.

I'd like to be proved wrong though.
I think you are right. Development would be too intense on this site. However, if it is approved, a big plus is that it would mask and overshadow the Royal Mail development which is beginning to look more ugly every day as it nears completion (see photo #7).
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Old July 19th, 2005, 10:58 AM   #22
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Sounds exciting. Look forward to seeing renderings.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 02:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred2
I think you are right. Development would be too intense on this site. However, if it is approved, a big plus is that it would mask and overshadow the Royal Mail development which is beginning to look more ugly every day as it nears completion (see photo #7).
I can't see how 2 towers can fit on that site unless the footprints are very small and given the heights, they will need a decent sized footprint. As has already been said, for a development of that height its vital to get the design spot on, I can't wait to see the renders!

Completely agree about the former Royal Mail building, I think photo 7 flatters it very much and gives little clue to how ugly the thing is in reality. I thought any development would be an improvement on what it used to look like, but now I'm not so sure!
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Old July 19th, 2005, 02:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoggie_Si
Completely agree about the former Royal Mail building, I think photo 7 flatters it very much and gives little clue to how ugly the thing is in reality. I thought any development would be an improvement on what it used to look like, but now I'm not so sure!
I think this building will be much improved when it's finished. It certainly looks different from different angles. My only real gripe is that the service podium is a rather brutal battleship grey and quite large, but saved by the fact that it faces Northern Street which is not a well used pedestrian route.

Smoggie, do you not remember the pebble-dashed grey monster that used to sit there? Believe me, it's an improvement. A re-cald was always going to be a compromise. It's fairly dull and uninspired, but I don't think it is offensive. Anyway, the success of the scheme has prompted the developers to go back to the drawing board for the rest of the site and - hopefully - come up with something really special - perhaps something like Elphinstone Place in Glasgow...
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Old July 19th, 2005, 02:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoggie_Si
I can't see how 2 towers can fit on that site unless the footprints are very small and given the heights, they will need a decent sized footprint. As has already been said, for a development of that height its vital to get the design spot on, I can't wait to see the renders!

Completely agree about the former Royal Mail building, I think photo 7 flatters it very much and gives little clue to how ugly the thing is in reality. I thought any development would be an improvement on what it used to look like, but now I'm not so sure!
Unless the 27-storey tower effectively becomes a part of the 52-storey tower. And it says they're linked with a 2-storey podium. So I reckon one will be flats and the other perhaps a hotel, with probably other facilities.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 02:35 PM   #26
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Old July 19th, 2005, 02:43 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicrealist
I think this building will be much improved when it's finished. It certainly looks different from different angles. My only real gripe is that the service podium is a rather brutal battleship grey and quite large, but saved by the fact that it faces Northern Street which is not a well used pedestrian route.

Smoggie, do you not remember the pebble-dashed grey monster that used to sit there? Believe me, it's an improvement. A re-cald was always going to be a compromise. It's fairly dull and uninspired, but I don't think it is offensive. Anyway, the success of the scheme has prompted the developers to go back to the drawing board for the rest of the site and - hopefully - come up with something really special - perhaps something like Elphinstone Place in Glasgow...
I do indeed remember the eyesore that was there before and whilst I have to agree that the reclad has improved it somewhat, it's still very ugly IMO and surely could have been done far, far better, I refer to an analogy that I've used before that a kick in the stomach is better than a kick in the nads!

I know I go on about Linfoots developments, but this has to be the nadir of their terracotta and grey cladding period which has produced some of the blandest buildings in Leeds. However to my eyes this goes beyond bland into ugliness.

I hope that you're right and the tower is something special. KWL have proved with BWP that they can do striking buildings, so I eagerly await the renderings.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 03:04 PM   #28
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[QUOTE=Smoggie_Si]I do indeed remember the eyesore that was there before and whilst I have to agree that the reclad has improved it somewhat, it's still very ugly IMO and surely could have been done far, far better, I refer to an analogy that I've used before that a kick in the stomach is better than a kick in the nads!

I know I go on about Linfoots developments, but this has to be the nadir of their terracotta and grey cladding period which has produced some of the blandest buildings in Leeds. However to my eyes this goes beyond bland into ugliness.

I hope that you're right and the tower is something special. KWL have proved with BWP that they can do striking buildings, so I eagerly await the renderings.[/QUOTE)

Smoggie, I have to agree with you on this 100%.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 04:42 PM   #29
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Like I said in the other thread, it needs something pointy on this site to compliment Criterion on the skyline. very exciting news. With monstors like these britain will be able to compete itnernationally with it's skylines soon.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di Livio
Just imagine if the Council had some imagination, and the land next to the river had been bought (yes I know it would have been expensive) and turned into a city park, rather than a site for identikit flats and offices....
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Old July 19th, 2005, 05:39 PM   #31
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What everyone's got to realise is that economic and building development usually happens haphazardly. We do not exist in a controlled economy. A nice park by the river might be the sort of thing Loiner would like the council tax payers money spent on - somewhere perhaps to read the paper and eat your sandwich at lunchtime - but the reality is, LCC have more pressing spending priorities.

The complexity of the HUV development is largely down to the numerous and disperate landowners. Trying to package and stitch together a viable parcel of land ready for development takes years (as we have seen). Whitehall road was a car park for as long as I can remember with a hoarding promising something for many many years. Suddenly in the last 5 years, interest in building things in Leeds has rocketed. We are in the early phase of this "boom", perhaps 5-10 years behind Manchester in terms of the cycle and as such some of the "early" build is of an average quality. As land values/rents have increased so IMO will the quality of the buildings.

Then we have momentum. Which is the key to getting more interesting and better quality buildings. I mean, who would have thought even 2 years ago that Leeds would merit it's own sub-forum on these boards?
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loiner
rather than a site for identikit flats and offices....
Even though it would be nice to see more urban greenery, would you really prefer open space to the view you get now from the station concourse?

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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:11 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicrealist
What everyone's got to realise is that economic and building development usually happens haphazardly. We do not exist in a controlled economy. A nice park by the river might be the sort of thing Loiner would like the council tax payers money spent on - somewhere perhaps to read the paper and eat your sandwich at lunchtime - but the reality is, LCC have more pressing spending priorities.
magic, I think this is very deceptive. You could say the same about Millenium Square / City Square, but the money (whether from Council or Lottery) was found. The issue with the park is that it could be a real feature for Leeds in the centre close to the station. As we know, there will be what seems like a significant central square in the Whitehall development, and I think that something on a smaller scale could have been acheived here next to the river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicrealist
The complexity of the HUV development is largely down to the numerous and disperate landowners. Trying to package and stitch together a viable parcel of land ready for development takes years (as we have seen). Whitehall road was a car park for as long as I can remember with a hoarding promising something for many many years. Suddenly in the last 5 years, interest in building things in Leeds has rocketed. We are in the early phase of this "boom", perhaps 5-10 years behind Manchester in terms of the cycle and as such some of the "early" build is of an average quality. As land values/rents have increased so IMO will the quality of the buildings.

Then we have momentum. Which is the key to getting more interesting and better quality buildings. I mean, who would have thought even 2 years ago that Leeds would merit it's own sub-forum on these boards?
I really hope that we do get many more interesting and good quality buildings. Its just that whilst Manchester builds them (Beetham), Leeds seems to have them all continuously on the drawing board (Criterion). In the meantime, all we get is "early" build of average quality.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:12 PM   #34
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must agree. I would love to see high desnity buildings around the station. Imagine in 5-8 years, going into the station from the west should provide an amazing first view of Leeds, assuming the the skyscrapers are of top quality.

The skyscrapers must be able to fit on the site because if they couldn't, why would someone spend so much effort and time planning it or even announcing it. I'm sure it will fit on, it might be quite thin... Look at Blue- it has a tiny footprint.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di Livio
Even though it would be nice to see more urban greenery, would you really prefer open space to the view you get now from the station concourse?
Ah yes, but open space would allow taller buildings, and there does seem to be considerable open space on that photo, which is currently bookended. It probably looks better now that City Island is complete in the background.

I am not saying the whole of the riverside needed to be given over, but a part of it could have been. Instead there is very little, although I think the riverside walk, if it is ever completed will be attractive.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds No.1
must agree. I would love to see high desnity buildings around the station. Imagine in 5-8 years, going into the station from the west should provide an amazing first view of Leeds, assuming the the skyscrapers are of top quality.

The skyscrapers must be able to fit on the site because if they couldn't, why would someone spend so much effort and time planning it or even announcing it. I'm sure it will fit on, it might be quite thin... Look at Blue- it has a tiny footprint.
Blue is about 10 storeys, this beast is 52!!! Think about it, if it has a tiny footprint it'd need foundations down to the core of the earth!

Things don't always get announced because they are going to happen. Not saying that this is what KWL are doing, but think of the publicity you get from announcing a 52 storey skyscraper? It's like when car manufacturers unveil a crazy concept car that will never get built.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:22 PM   #37
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I would have suggested to build dense all along the riverside, then provide bridges to Granary Wharf, which I would make fully park land, no buildings at all, and a few independent shops/restaurants under the arches. Ideally, I think that would be the best idea. I guess it would be a bit like a Central Park sort of idea...
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeds No.1
I would have suggested to build dense all along the riverside, then provide bridges to Granary Wharf, which I would make fully park land, no buildings at all, and a few independent shops/restaurants under the arches. Ideally, I think that would be the best idea. I guess it would be a bit like a Central Park sort of idea...
Si recovering from the shock of being in agreement with LN1 100%!
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:25 PM   #39
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Well Blue, if Im not mistaken is 16 storeys, and secondly, a 52 storey tower would need bigger foundations yes, but I'm sure that with todays architectural knowledge it can be overcome. We don't even know what it is yet- it mgiht just be a 52 storey (equivalent of) structure, such as Spinnaker Tower or Blackpool Tower for example.
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Old July 19th, 2005, 06:26 PM   #40
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Ah yes Blue. Another scheme that promised so much. Fantastic design, but a salutory lesson in the effect of cladding.

Well done for getting back to topic Smoggie. Just as I was about to start another rant about how the arena should be at Whitehall..!!

I'm really missing the old threads (Whitehall Riverside and Whitehall), but am wary about starting new ones, as I now understand they might be restored. How long do we give it before my uncontrolled ramblings can be focussed again??
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